S04.E23: Schism

[Actionmage]

I am not sure how I feel overall about the episode. The Diggle beats, though? Got me every inch of the way. What I love is Lyla.

For a second, I thought it was Laurel/ Laurel's ghost coming to talk to Oliver, but it was Felicity.

Russia for Season 5 flashbacks! Speaking of flashbacks, Cynthia Addai Robinson was looking good, as usual. Too bad it was a hi!-bye! cameo. Maybe we'll see her drop Oliver into Russia, parachute optional.

I am concerned about young Miss Darhk. Where the hell is she? Did Malcolm give her the same song and dance that he gave Thea? Did she end up in the childcare system? Did Anarchy spirit her away? Did Felicity find a family for her to live with? Did Lyla? She's not some toddler; she was ten-to-twelve and was relatively aware of what was going on. She just lost both parents and she knows exactly who is responsible for both losses.

When Damien bragged about being in the LoA, I was 'Oliver was too, asshole.'

I just want to hug Curtis. Gingerly, but hug him. He was adorable in thinking he could protect Donna and Felicity from Darhk/Dhark/Dahrk/Darkh/Hdark ( the h is silent!).

I was disappointed that Noah totally left town, which in turn makes me disappointed in Donna a bit. I still love Mama Smoak, but there will be plenty of time over the break to ponder Smoak Family Feels. 

TBH, everyone needs a break, but Oliver sticks to his pattern- in a way- and throws himself completely into a new project. Oliver looked so freakin' happy at the swearing in ceremony. He practically glowed; he was getting a chance to work in the light! He could work on bringing Good Things to the town he loves. 

Stupid episode surprised me by having Baby Sara talk to her mom and dad on the phone. No, you're crying. Because shut up. 

 Flashback question: Why didn't anyone of those guys with automatic weapons fire on the damn totem? Even if you don't believe in possession and Reiter's powers, blow the damn thing up so no one else can use it as an excuse to Evil, right?

There was a lot that felt like I was supposed to care, but I didn't, like Cooper's death.  Was I supposed to feel an epiphany when Amanda effing Waller was all ' Sometimes you have to kill, Mr. Queen.' Oh, Flashbacks; you have at least one more chance to prove how awesome we know you can be. Rest up and we'll see you in the Fall.

It was an alright episode. There were moments I enjoyed, but it did feel stop-and-start-y.  Thea also neglected to off Malcolm, so he's skulking around for another season.  But I am curious as to how the band gets back together, so I am looking forward to that.

[BkWurm1]

4 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

How come the nuke from Siberia to Havenbrook took about 10 minutes, but all these other 15000+ nukes took at least two hours no matter where they were launched from ?  Seriously, none of the other nukes impacted ? None of them.

And that is not how ballistic missiles work -- they are only powered for the first half of the flight or so and then fall the other half.  They sure as hell can't fly parallel to the surface -- that would be a cruise missile and that is not what Felicity and Curtis deflected.

Once again -- the flashbacks were terrible.  In the fucking finale, so many flashbacks.

I couldn't believe with all the bullets flying from the Ghosts in the Arrow lair that not even one member of Team Arrow caught a ricochet or even a simple fleshwound.

Why did Arrow's eyes glow while fighting Darhk ?  Was that all the 'hope' he was collecting from the crowds supporting him ?

If Darhk lost his powers, how come he was still able to monitor Cooper and control the bullet ?  

And why the hell is Malcolm Merlin still alive ?

And what happened to Darhk's daughter ?  Is she still down in Darhk's lair or wherever that was ?  Is she going to be the big bad next season exacting revenge for Arrow killing her daddy ?

Darhk didn't lose his powers, they were neutralized toward/around Oliver. 

2 minutes ago, unlfan03 said:

Well I've done my part to help the season finale watching live for Nielsen, as much as it hurts to watch commercials after a season of getting to fast forward through them and the flash backs. Dang Dig, I know Generals that have fewer ribbons than you, why is it that enlisted soldiers always seem to be so busy. My dad was in for 20 years and his dress blues never had that many ribbons. I like that we had Waller give us "I kill you for justice sake" Oliver, but it didn't redeem the snore worthy flash backs. I think that could have happened in Russia, but unless there is some improvement we are probably going to be let down by the flashbacks of Russia since they are going to shoe horn in the A story line links. Enough with the Laurel propping, it is old, pervasive annoying, we seen it on Flash and to a point on LOT but at least on LOT Sara had a reason to be all nostalgic and I loved her, she was her sister. The episode itself was good, less of a screwy one than Flash. I too am looking forward to next season because the potential, but I'm keeping my expectations low. 

Taking one for the team!  Good on you! 

I guess Diggle was a VERY good soldier, lol. 

I can't imagine the flashbacks ever being worse than this year.

I think my expectations are properly low since merely having hope for next season seems to be enough for me. 

[wonderwall]

Also. WOOOOOOOOOO! THE FELICITY AND FRIENDS SHOW LIVES! 

[Angel12d]

Has anyone mentioned how good Diggle looked in his uniform? Because hubba hubba. 

I think that's the first time this show has surprised me in ages. I really did not see him reenlisting. I guess he needs to work through his guilt.

[dtissagirl]

I want Malcolm gone, but also, Malcolm relegated to Felicity's security detail before kinda disappearing completely from the narrative was A+ hilarious and fitting. Has been status: achieved.

[Angel12d]

I did LOL when Felicity whacked one of the ghosts with Laurel's baton or whatever it's called. [Edited by mod: Fan stuff.]

Edited May 26, 2016 by MuuMuuChainsmoker

[statsgirl]

They redeemed Cooper for me. I didn't think it could be done, but he done good in the end.  But someone needs to take back what Curtis said, that Noah/Donna are Oliver/Felicity because it's Cooper/Felicity who are the equivalent.

I liked that Curtis was the one to give Oliver the pep toalk.  I don't know why I hate it when Barry needs constant pep talks because Oliver does too. I think it's because Oliver goes through much worse things than Barry so I understand why Oliver needs to be supported.

4 minutes ago, SleepDeprived said:

And, as always, Lyla's presence in the episode made me happy. She's just great. Diggle really should just listen to her all the time because killing Andy was the right action. The only thing that I disagreed with Lyla on was her wrong call to try to get her A.R.G.U.S. people to kill Darhk, though. Poor, nameless agents.

After Havenrock, Lyla and Felicity can bond over Girls Night with red wine and pizza and talk about their guilt for the decisions they made.

3 minutes ago, Actionmage said:

For a second, I thought it was Laurel/ Laurel's ghost coming to talk to Oliver, but it was Felicity.

I am concerned about young Miss Darhk. Where the hell is she? Did Malcolm give her the same song and dance that he gave Thea? Did she end up in the childcare system? Did Anarchy spirit her away? Did Felicity find a family for her to live with? Did Lyla? She's not some toddler; she was ten-to-twelve and was relatively aware of what was going on. She just lost both parents and she knows exactly who is responsible for both losses.

Now you're just giving me nightmares about having Ghost Laurel around through the life of the show.  It could happen, apparently she is that powerful and that good.

I kind of hope that Malcolm took young Miss Darhk to Nanda Parbat to train.  Given her genetic heritage, there's got to be a lot of darkness in there.  If she's going to be let loose on the world, let it be with the organization that trained her daddy.

[kismet]

Well the first 15min were pretty boring. Way to many gun fights, of course it did blend in well with popping popcorn. But the remaining 45 min were good, not great, not superb but good. The last 5 min broke my heart and was very moving. I actually was really tense that something bad was going to happen with everyone. It was hard to believe that nothing bad was going to happen on their escape from SC. All in all a better finale than I was expecting. Not as depressing as I thought it would be. and everyone seems to be on point for a good s5 kick-off. Gonna tackle this from a character perspective this time.

Darhk - I really hope he didn't die all the way. Because I think DD would be a fun VOW or mini-run. Plus I never got to hear NM say "darhk" in his native accent and that my friends is a crime against humanity. I can only imagine how great & authentic it would have sounded :(

Oliver - Bummed he's the Mayor, think it will be boring. But at lest he has a job. His speeches were hit or miss. I really did love him staying. Loved his moments with everyone on his team. A real Team Leader, while letting people make their own choices.

Felicity - Damn Straight MVP of the episode. Every scene spot on whether she was having an emotional moment or using tech to deal with the thingy in the sky. I really hate the Grommet Coat, but I do wonder if it has magical properties.

Lyla - We need to find a way to keep her. She is amazing. Knew she would understand the Andy thing

Dig - Glad he is reenlisting. I think it fits his character to go back and find himself in what made him a Hero in the first place. A fitting tribute to the Brother he lost, as opposed to the brother he killed.

Thea - Thank you for using DD's daughter in a pragmatic but not too horrible way. Also glad she is taking the summer to take a breather. It has been a rough two years for her. And at least she is staying in SC. So she's not leaving TA, it's just a break from Speedy - which is totally relatable.

Laurel - The St. Laurel references were way too many. I almost thought saying her name at one point was going to be connected to reducing DD's magic.

Poppy - RIP, you outstayed your welcome - but at least you still managed to leave the Party.

Flashbacks - Loved SA's meta statement about "this isn't going to make a lot of sense". But they are over, we are onto Russia and we got Waller back. So win-win in the end.

Final thoughts -

Schism - I don't think the writers used the word appropriately in a sentence. But I guess it was a cool word and we need something to be OQ's issue in s5. I guess he will be at war with himself. So is the show going to have OQ with Dissociative Identity Disorder?? I guess we need a replacement for PTSD. Look fwd to some fun City Hall meetings.

[dtissagirl]

25 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I did LOL when Felicity whacked one of the ghosts with Laurel's baton or whatever it's called. [Edited by mod: Fan stuff.]

FORESHADOWING.

[Kidding. But also it's funny.]

[apinknightmare]

17 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

That was . . . intense. And ludicrous on many levels. Cannot believe we'll be getting Mayor Oliver. The guy was missing for five years and accused of being a vigilante twice. But he gives the show's version of Bill Pullman's speech in Independence Day, and now he's mayoral material? Also, I don't get how he got 58 percent of a write-in ballot. Sometimes, the show just doesn't give a fuck.

He got 48%. From a city full of people who were going to vote his mother - a woman who played a part in actually leveling a good part of the city and killing 500+ people - into office as mayor. Oliver has the better record by far, haha.

[Orion]

Overall I was happy with it.

The loft scene was exciting.  Fight scenes were good. I really liked the Cooper and Felicity scene. I enjoyed how it ended. Really hoping Thea decides to go live and fight beside Roy and takes MM with her.

Really horrible editing. Sound mixing problems with muffled dialogue. Some of the dialogue was so corny and terrible. The grave scene, the speech, and the flashbacks. Every other word out of Oliver's mouth was about Darkness or Light.  St. Laurel needs to go away for ever and ever.

Poppy died and magic is over. Good enough for me.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, dtissagirl said:

FORESHADOWING.
 

I actually had a little bit of a panic that SHE was going to be the one who showed up dressed as the mysterious BC, and was like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

I liked that Curtis was the one to give Oliver the pep toalk.  I don't know why I hate it when Barry needs constant pep talks because Oliver does too. I think it's because Oliver goes through much worse things than Barry so I understand why Oliver needs to be supported.

I think it's because while Barry is always given support even when he screws up and is a general asshole, Oliver is given shit for when he messes up, is supported when he needs uplifting and things are bad... Also because it's known Oliver has PTSD... So maybe that's why too?

[Lantern7]

jay741982 . . . I meant 48 percent. For some reason, Firefox is giving me grief, so I keep ending and restarting it.

[madhacker]

Quote

Did I mention, PLEASE NO MORE MAGIC? EVER AGAIN??? 

Well can John Constatine be an exception?

Yeah it was an ok ending, but still better than Flash's (I'm still annoyed at that)

Next season I'm hoping for:

Nyssa decides to be the new Canary with no wig (oh don't say I'm not the only one who thinks she'd be awseome)

Roy returns as Arsenal, I really miss him.

[popgoesculture]

4 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

 

I want Malcolm gone, but also, Malcolm relegated to Felicity's security detail before kinda disappearing completely from the narrative was A+ hilarious and fitting. Has been status: achieved

 

I love that part, especially when she yells at Curtis and Malcolm to leave and Curtis tries to tell her no, but Malcolm knows better than to mess with her.

Overall, it wasn't the best, and wasn't the worst... it really felt like it was just trying to get to the end point where the team split up. I wish they had given some resolution on what Felicity is going to do now. 

There were so many moments that could be episodes in their own right, yet the show kind of rushes right through them and spends an insane amount of time on the island flashbacks, which could've been summed up in at most half a season's worth of eps. I cheered when Oliver killed Poppy. 

I think they also need to really define how Curtis is going to offer something different than Felicity. All his lines tonight could've gone to her. I enjoy EK, but Curtis is still hit/miss for me. I'd actually prefer more scenes between Lyla and Felicity; it seems like they're very much in the same boat (responsible for so many deaths, with dudes whose manpain makes them think leaving their family is the best, etc.) and I've always liked their friendship. 

[dtissagirl]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

I actually had a little bit of a panic that SHE was going to be the one who showed up dressed as the mysterious BC, and was like "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"

Really? I basically spent the entire episode trying to decide whether the writers' intent here is honoring Laurel or trolling Laurel. I still can't make up my mind.

[kismet]

38 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Soooo that last scene with Oliver and Felicity. Summer of sex and rebuilding the lair with the Mayor amirite? 

 

I bet they'll break more surfaces than they will fix ;)

Besides saying aww at FS last words, I was like now they can have sex and not worry about the team barging in. Random strangers maybe, but the team they're in the clear :)

41 minutes ago, AyChihuahua said:

It was better than the S3 finale. Not overtly offensive. Cool that he's mayor, for however long that lasts. I'm kind of meh about it, I guess, but not mad.

The final fight was terrible. Oliver punches--DD punches--Oliver punches--DD punches. On and on ad infinitum.

Where's the creepy kid go now? 

She has some coloring to finish with her friend. Even her dollie was creepy.

[wonderwall]

Just now, dtissagirl said:

Really? I basically spent the entire episode trying to decide whether the writers' intent here is honoring Laurel or trolling Laurel. I still can't make up my mind.

LOL I'm gonna use this gif again...

I hope it's this considering MG wrote this episode:

[Coop33]

Well I thought the pacing of the whole thing was terrible, but storywise I'm good with where we ended up.

The way they were all talking about Laurel gave me the impression that none of them knew her very well, save for Quentin. I thought all the talk about her and graveyard scene were heavy-handed, but I rather be dealing with that than Laurel herself. 

I liked the final shot with Oliver and Felicity. It had a very "us against the world" type vibe and I dug it. I'm wondering though if they'll be back together by the start of season 5. They seem to be in such a better place now that it's hard for me to believe they'd be able to hold off for 5 more months.

Lyla gives me life and I hope she is more involved next season. 

Finally, #RIP to #Poppy and these horrendous Season 4 flashbacks. You won't be #missed.

[BunsenBurner]

Was it in KC's agreement when she got fired that she be mentioned as the next coming of BC in all the episodes that she didn't appear in this year?

[Soulfire]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Soulfire

[kismet]

17 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

They redeemed Cooper for me. I didn't think it could be done, but he done good in the end.  But someone needs to take back what Curtis said, that Noah/Donna are Oliver/Felicity because it's Cooper/Felicity who are the equivalent.

I liked that Curtis was the one to give Oliver the pep toalk.  I don't know why I hate it when Barry needs constant pep talks because Oliver does too. I think it's because Oliver goes through much worse things than Barry so I understand why Oliver needs to be supported.y

Cooper was redeemed for me as well, I didn't think I needed it or even thought of it - but I'm glad I got it.

Because OQ needs them like once or twice a season when shit hits the fan. BA needs them to cross the street and tie his shoes.

[Actionmage]

Quote

I kind of hope that Malcolm took young Miss Darhk to Nanda Parbat to train.  Given her genetic heritage, there's got to be a lot of darkness in there.  If she's going to be let loose on the world, let it be with the organization that trained her daddy.

But Nyssa al  Ghul disbanded the League of Assassins. Still, Malcolm probably has a mansion somewhere sunny where he can "train" his new "daughter" into the  "shape" he thinks she needs to be in.

[kismet]

26 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

FORESHADOWING.

[Kidding. But also it's funny.]

If Only... maybe only a little kidding.

[TwistedandBored]

It was really a good episode. Even the Laurel name drop didn't get to me because I know that too would drop next season. 

Olicity was the one that left last season and they are the ones staying this season. One of favorite part of the episode. 

[Angel12d]

Next season I really hope we see Felicity affected by what's happened to her this season. Because she changed the direction of that nuke (not her choice but she was still upset about it) and she watched Copper die in front of her and I just think we never really get to see how she's feeling or handling things. As suspected they completely glossed over the nuke thing and IDK, I would have liked something more there. 

Why does it feel like they ran out of time when it also feels like there was so many filler episodes this season?

[wonderwall]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Why does it feel like they ran out of time when it also feels like there was so many filler episodes this season?

They ran out of time because they had too many filler episodes :p

[Angel12d]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

They ran out of time because they had too many filler episodes :p

Haha. But that's what I mean. They had all those filler episodes and they could have used them better. It annoys me.

[Morrigan2575]

And they have horribly poor pacing. It's like they only write a 1st and 3rd act season. The 2nd act is all filler then they wake up and go "oh shit" we have to wrap everything up in the final 5 episodes....rush rush rush.

to be honest though i'd put this as the #3 finale

S1, S2, S4 and then S3 (weak season).

[quarks]

Low expectations save me again! Apart from the often mindboggling edits, the inexplicable references to someone named Saint Laurel, and the lack of acknowledging the other two shows in an episode that actually needed that acknowledgement, I thought it was overall pretty fun, if, once again, not letting several scenes just breathe.

Good things:

1. Damien Darhk. Still my favorite of the Arrow Big Bads - gloriously over the top, but still able to appreciate beautiful, expensive windows and critique the heroes for breaking them. May you find some magical or time travelling method that lets you return.

2. Damien's daughter complaining that she hated the temple set. At that moment, SHE WAS ME.

3. In a rare moment of continuity for Arrow, the mob looting the stores Ray Palmer bought to force Felicity to come and work for him. I laughed.

4. It's probably heresy on this board, but I liked that someone other than Felicity gave Oliver his season finale pep talk speech - especially since she was the one to later discuss the whole schism thing. She got the character insight, and didn't have to pretend that finding out her love/hope wasn't enough this time for Oliver didn't hurt. Nice.

5. Aww, Felicity stayed with Oliver in the end after everyone else left. That was nice.

6. And speaking of Felicity, she got to save the day twice - once with the admittedly silly missile thing, and once with Cooper. 

7. Also having a good episode: Thea, who got to save the day at the beginning of the episode, even if she did have to involve a creepy kid to do so, and then had the sensible decision to just take some time to discover herself again, finally claiming some self-agency after four seasons. YOU GO THEA. On a related note, see, Flash writers? IT CAN BE DONE. ON SHOWS IN YOUR OWN UNIVERSE. 

8. Diggle went back to the army! I admit, I did not see that one coming at all. Arrow hasn't surprised me too often this season, and this twist felt fully in character. Well done, show. (Also, on a purely shallow note, Ramsey rocked that uniform.)

9. Also loved Lyla, completely understanding and supporting him.

10. I had to laugh when Curtis pointed out that normal people wouldn't stay in Star City. And on a small related note, PAUL SURVIVED THE SEASON, YAY!

11. And yay, Oliver is finally employed again!

12. Speaking of which, a nice round of applause, please, for the Star City Council, for sticking around during yet another May of danger, thus providing the second most surprising moment of the episode: a scene showing that Star City even still has a city council. YAY! (Though I gotta ask - how does that deputy mayor mentioned earlier in the episode feel about all of this?)

13. And even bigger yay, this season's flashbacks have come to a merciful, merciful end.

Creepy things:

New category, just for this episode:

1. What was up with Damien's daughter and that creepy doll? Did anyone go find her afterwards, and give her a nicer doll? Or a cute teddy bear? And by anyone, I mean, a member of the Addams family?

Questionable things:

1. Amanda Waller. And just when I thought I didn't have to yell at you anymore, Amanda. Ok, kudos for finally offering Oliver a choice there, minus SEVERAL POINTS for demonstrating that you easily could have come in with helicopters and taken over the entire island to begin with instead of SUBJECTING SEVERAL MILLION VIEWERS TO THE BOREDOM THAT HAS BEEN THIS SEASON'S FLASHBACKS. This may be your worst move ever in the entire series, and I am including your use of torture and bombing party guests. You suck.

2. I suspect the answer to this is that I just wasn't paying attention, but when did the people on the island get a plane? I thought they were all running to a boat?

3. Hey, Poppy's character has a last name! Which I've completely forgotten already.

4. I completely lost it when Oliver's inspirational speech turned out to be a list of all of the terrible things that keep happening to Star City - especially since about 1/5 of the people watching him were holding boxes of stuff stolen from Ray Palmer's company.

6. I liked most of the action scenes, but there were some bits during the final confrontation where a number of extras were just kinda jogging down the street in the back looking like they were just running a marathon. Which then made me think that maybe they were.

7. Given all the looting/panic/etc., Donna and Quentin certainly had lovely clear traffic free roads to flee on, didn't they?

[Carrie Ann]

6 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Why does it feel like they ran out of time when it also feels like there was so many filler episodes this season?

This is my biggest problem with the season, and probably the series on the whole. They have more episodes than they really need to have and yet they cannot parcel out any story properly. They just wander aimlessly for eight episodes and then pile every bit of story into one big episode, and then twiddle their thumbs for another eight, etc. It's so frustrating. At the very least, they could use those filler episodes to deal with character/relationship development. Instead, they just want you to imagine all the development that must be happening in offscreen-ville. Ugh.

@dtissagirl said it best: I feel whelmed. I'm grateful that I'm not actively angry about anything that happened, but I'm not excited about anything either. I hope they will give out some good info about Season 5 at SDCC, because right now I feel pretty indifferent about the show.

[Angel12d]

Just now, Carrie Ann said:

This is my biggest problem with the season, and probably the series on the whole. They have more episodes than they really need to have and yet they cannot parcel out any story properly. They just wander aimlessly for eight episodes and then pile every bit of story into one big episode, and then twiddle their thumbs for another eight, etc. It's so frustrating. At the very least, they could use those filler episodes to deal with character/relationship development. Instead, they just want you to imagine all the development that must be happening in offscreen-ville. Ugh.

@dtissagirl said it best: I feel whelmed. I'm grateful that I'm not actively angry about anything that happened, but I'm not excited about anything either. I hope they will give out some good info about Season 5 at SDCC, because right now I feel pretty indifferent about the show.

Exactly. So much happened in the last 3 episodes that it just felt like a mess. I still feel the Smoak family reunion should have happened a few episodes earlier because it was inappropriate in that specific episode. And then all that time showing how Felicity had left the team for good and wanted to help people outside of being on Team Arrow was wasted because she was literally back on the team 2 episodes later. We wasted time on Thea and Malcolm repetitiveness. And the one arc that they actually set up with O/F had no time for resolution. It's so weird. 

I don't feel excited about anything either but I am interested to see what the characters will be up to when s5 starts. They've set them all on different paths and they'll obviously need to come back together and I do want to see how that happens. Excitement though? Stretching it.

[quarks]

Bad things:

1. Uh, Arrow, I don't think that's how ballistic missiles, or any missiles, work.  

2. While I'm complaining about that, why wasn't ARGUS/POTUS calling all of the various world nuclear powers, explaining what happened, and asking them to disconnect the missiles from the power sources that set off their firing systems? And before this entire board tells me that that's not how nuclear missiles work, I know, but it's not like anything regarding the missiles on this show made sense anyway. Plus, Russia already WATCHED a missile take off without authorization. Why wouldn't they be running around cutting electrical cords to everything? 

3. Speaking of the nukes, this episode continued to gloss over a pretty important plot point - one nuke DID fall on a populated U.S. area, killing it. It's bad enough that this isn't getting brought on Flash, given that Flash does get regular news updates from Arrow, but really not good that Arrow only mentioned it during the "previouslies" and as something that gave Damien additional power - not something that Team Arrow is still dealing with/needs to deal with.

And yes, they should. That's only the third nuclear bomb in history to fall on a populated area.  Arrow is, in theory, supposedly the more "realistic" show - however unrealistic the whole missile plot was tonight. Just two seasons ago, Oliver was willing to risk Felicity's life (and Laurel's) in order to prevent Amanda Waller from just bombing a U.S. city to stop the Mirakuru soldiers. Thea needing time off - which was mostly because she'd threatened a kid, not because of the nukes - and Diggle rejoining the army really aren't the type of consequences this needs.  Arrow did a pretty decent job of showing the consequences of the Undertaking in the first season, and a semi-decent job of showing the consequences of two terrorist attacks in the third season; don't fail us in the fifth season, Arrow, even if that bomb fell elsewhere.

3. The less said about Felicity's clothing choices during the first part of this episode, the better, but along with burning that coat, let's kill that skirt.

4. Why was Malcolm helping Team Arrow?  He was all about destroying the world JUST LAST EPISODE.  "To save Thea" doesn't work here, since he could have shot her with a drug and taken her to an underground bunker.  Why is anyone on Team Arrow listening to him or having him help stop Cooper? Better question, why is Malcolm still alive? 

Though forcing him to be Felicity's bodyguard was pretty funny.

5. Not sure what happened in post or if they couldn't bring the actors in for ADR or whatever, but there were multiple sound issues in this episode.

6. Pacing: this was a seriously packed, to the point of overpacked, episode, with several scenes - the Curtis/Oliver scene, a couple of the Olicity scenes, the Diggle leaving Team Arrow scene, Oliver becoming the Mayor, and even - sigh - Poppy's death scene - needing a few more moments to breathe, in an episode that I'm fairly certain had at least one and possibly three cut scenes. (With all of the mentions of Laurel, it seems certain that some sort of Black Canary figure appeared in the final confrontation scene - either as Baby Canary or as a ghost to inspire everyone, and there's a missing follow up scene with Curtis and another scene with Malcolm.)

And yet, there was also very little that could be cut, because Arrow was trying to squeeze so much into this episode - after completely meandering around between most of episodes 15 through 22. I know Arrow has done this in every season since the first season, but my main hope for next season is that the overall season gets planned out better so that the major emotional beats at the end of the season - including the major moment of Oliver Queen becoming the city's major - can get enough breathing space. 

6. Unless the effects of Barry's little time reset have already hit Arrow - and for various reasons, I don't think they did - the Laurel stuff from everyone but Quentin was, to put it kindly, a retcon. In season two, Laurel shot someone in the back. Last season, Laurel urged Oliver - more than once - to kill Malcolm. After Thea became a vigilante, Laurel offered to become her roommate and continued to go out with her in the streets, strongly suggesting that no, Laurel would not tell Thea to back off. Laurel didn't tell Thea to back off with the bloodlust - that was Oliver.

I know they felt they needed an inspirational figure this episode, but the inspirational figure who was genuinely against killing and horrified to find out that Oliver was a killer was Tommy, not Laurel. When Laurel found out, she considered turning Oliver in to free her father, but when Quentin said no, Laurel responded to the whole "huh, you're the vigilante who killed dozens last year? Let me give you a hug!" 

And in the meantime, the genuinely inspirational figure here - as Curtis pointed out - was Oliver. Arrow could have done a lot with this, and did touch on a bit of it, but some of the discussion about finding inspiration in a killer - something season one did discuss - got completely lost in the "oooh, this is what Laurel would have wanted." Maybe, but the much more important issue here was that after four seasons of ongoing major attacks, the city could only be inspired by a failed mayoral candidate and his alter ego - who started off as a killer. That was what this episode needed to explore. And didn't.

Still, as said, low expectations helped a lot!

[quarks]

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

 

Seriously, he saves Thea and it's all she needs to just leave him be. And now she realizes she's her father's daughter? WTF. She didn't seem to leave the city though as she was still in Laurel's apartment so I guess she's just left the team. 

Or, more likely, Arrow didn't think her journey of self-realization and discovery was worth an extra set.

[Lady Calypso]

What a nice finale. Not the most climatic, surprisingly, but good.

So, everyone got to play a part in saving the city. Hell, even the city got to help!  I think the city fight scene was good, but not great. I truly have seen better from this show. I think it was the last bit with Damien and Oliver ending up taking turns punching each other that got me evaluating it. And even with being dead, Laurel somewhat got to pitch in by inspiring Quentin, Thea and a little bit of Oliver. I'm ok with that, because Laurel still held an importance in their lives. I'm ok with them still thinking about her during all of this. Plus, the moment at the cemetery was nice (even if completely and utterly untrue).

Felicity and Curtis got to work on stopping the nukes, which was good. I kind of actually felt bad for Cooper by the end. He really did redeem himself. I'm sure Felicity is going to be affected by the aftermath of all of this. But she did manage to help save the world, so good for her and Curtis. Speaking of, I did not really understand why Curtis was supposedly almost dead for five minutes and then fine and walking around afterward. It was like they wanted to give us a dramatic cliffhanger with Curtis, but they changed their minds about two minutes later. 

So, Oliver killed Damien. Thank god! After Barry 'left' Zoom to the demise of the Time Wraiths and left the option to bring him back, I'm glad Oliver did the right thing and ended his life. And Damien even has a daughter! That would have gotten Barry to spare him for sure! 

The people who left this time are the people who I assumed would need it. Quentin got to leave with Donna to mourn his daughter's death. He definitely needs it. I think he implied that he has his job back, but he's taking time off for the summer to mourn? So I think he'll be back in uniform next season, which is good. Thea obviously needed to leave to figure out her own life. I hope the girl gets her spa day this time. Maybe she can meet up with Roy and do that spa day together. Maybe now with Oliver as mayor, he can 'spare' the Arrow and get Roy to come out of hiding. Poor boy probably can't stay in one city for too long. 

Diggle re-enlisting was a total surprise. I figured he would want to leave so he could have a break, but going back into the army? I'm surprised because I would think he would want to be with his family. At the very least, I thought he might have joined an ARGUS organization outside of Star City. I hoped he would have taken Lyla and Sara and gone on a vacation, but I figure Lyla needs to stay working.

The flashbacks are done! Hallelujah! Is it bad I rewound the neck snap a couple of times? 

And Oliver and Felicity stay. They gave them some really strong moments together. It really does feel like the good old days with them. It's why this baby mama drama ruined a good chunk of this season. But they left the potential couple on a high note, so it's possible that with pretty much all of their friends gone besides Curtis, they'll reconnect. Or, at the very least, get closer to what they were before. 

So, with Curtis being a regular next season, I actually don't mind it now. He'll probably be helping during the hiatus with the Team Arrow stuff, and when Thea and Diggle come back, he'll probably stay. 

So, not the best finale this show has put out, but it was a nice resolution, even if totally cluttered and rushed. 

Oh, also show, two more things: thank you for not killing Paul. Now, DON'T KILL HIM NEXT SEASON SO CURTIS CAN HAVE HIS MISTER TERRIFIC PATH SET. Just don't. It's a nice twist to keep the loved one alive, you know? If you must find angst to put him on the path, just do anything else. Also, second point: can you kindly kill Malcolm at some point next season? As funny as it was to see him be Felicity's bodyguard, he's the guy that will always betray Team Arrow when given the chance. The only reason he played nice was because the world was about to end and Felicity could stop it. There might not be that chance next season. So yeah, just deal with him so we can hopefully add Colton Haynes instead to the main cast. Mmkay? Thanks. 

[Angel12d]

1 minute ago, quarks said:

Or, more likely, Arrow didn't think her journey of self-realization and discovery was worth an extra set.

Good point. This set problem is only gonna get worse, isn't it?

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

jay741982 . . . I meant 48 percent. For some reason, Firefox is giving me grief, so I keep ending and restarting it.

LOL no worries I figured it could've been a typo

[quarks]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Good point. This set problem is only gonna get worse, isn't it?

A lot worse, unless they can somehow find/build another soundstage by July, when all four shows have to start filming, although it's possible that they may start doing more indoor location shooting at various places (convention center rooms, etc.)

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, quarks said:

A lot worse, unless they can somehow find/build another soundstage by July, when all four shows have to start filming, although it's possible that they may start doing more indoor location shooting at various places (convention center rooms, etc.)

I'm guessing, given that Oliver and Felicity are not together and they'll have limited scenes at home, their loft set is going to be at least shared with Supergirl. And Felicity's PT office will probably be given up to SG completely.

[Actionmage]

Quote

unless they can somehow find/build another soundstage by July,

::hopes Thea can find a cool 1 bedroom apartment that looks just like a former PA of Cat Grant's:: ( What? It's a cute set.)

[Angel12d]

So...what was the point of #Poppy? Was it just to give Oliver a reason to go to Russia and join the Bratva? In that case, all is forgiven. Enjoy the afterlife! #Thanks #so #much!

[apinknightmare]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

So...what was the point of #Poppy? Was it just to give Oliver a reason to go to Russia and join the Bratva? In that case, all is forgiven. Enjoy the afterlife! #Thanks #so #much!

I'm morbidly curious about what the initial plans for the parallels between Oliver and Poppy and Oliver and Felicity MG spoke of at the beginning of the season. Because yikes.

[dtissagirl]

Me too. I also wonder if they ever even pitched the flashback-heavy episode of the season to the network, or if it was 86ed as soon as the suits realized the FBs were boredomville.

[way2interested]

Before I get inundated the next day or so by the haters or critics or whatever (not from this board, y'all are great and insightful, and I love coming on to see others' ideas, just from the internet in general), I think I've reached a new balance with this show, with this episode, and the last few actually, being a good new measure of expectation that I'll have going forward with the show. I generally really enjoyed this episode, despite the issues in edits/pacing/etc. that I was still aware of while watching. Idk if it's nostalgia or extreme loyalty on my part, but all in all what s4 gave me was constant entertainment to some extent in every episode (even Vixen during 415), despite some failings in execution. 

I've kind of learned to tamper my expectations for this show for the rest of my viewing from now on until ("if") the writers can ever build up that trust again, but I'm still going to be a loyal viewer, if not just excited to be entertained for my Wednesday nights by characters I've grown to care about for the last few years. At least this episode had a nice resolution for all of the characters (not Malcolm) that has me interested to see what comes next. If there is anything that last year and this year have taught me is to like what I like concerning Arrow despite whatever I see/hear/read anyone else say and to just keep watching if I keep liking it. 

Sorry for the off kind of tangent there. I was just so weirdly not disappointed/cheesily entertained with 423! On with the hiatus, s5, I'll be waiting for you! 

[Angel12d]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm morbidly curious about what the initial plans for the parallels between Oliver and Poppy and Oliver and Felicity MG spoke of at the beginning of the season. Because yikes.

OMG yes. I'd forgotten about that. Haha, we were all anticipating a sex scene and they never even kissed. I still go WTF at ghost Shado telling Oliver he loves #Poppy. 

[SleepDeprived]

I just realized something. Didn't the #Poppy actress say something on one of her Twitter or Instagram posts that the moment Arrow fans were waiting for between Oliver and #Poppy was finally happening in the finale? So, she meant Oliver killing #Poppy, right? Aw, man. That kinda makes me feel sad for her that she knows how much people really didn't like/warm up to her character and that her death has been something people have been wishing/waiting/hoping for (and, in my case, celebrated with drinks). The actress was kinda sweet and I did love her enthusiasm for such a thankless character/job that she was saddled with in the flashbacks. Anyway, at least, she got a steady gig and was in almost all of the episodes of S4? #Blessed.

I'm still mighty glad the magical island flashbacks are done and hope that we'll have better flashbacks in S5 with the Bratva.

[Delphi]

I'm bothered by Felicity saying that Oliver killed Darhk in cold blood.   Only days after urging him to kill Darhk.   I see what they were going for, but to me it seemed so untrue and unfair to say to him.   Darhk definitely needed to die. 

On the other hand I love how when they invaded Cooper's lair all she has to say is "go" and the team plus Merlyn falls into line. 

Ugh,  by the way Damien, you know (I assume) how much I miss Moira,  don't bring my queen up. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Delphi

[NumberCruncher]

Yeah, that Poppy character was a thankless job.  The actress was always really nice with the fans but I don't think there was a way to salvage the character she played.  I imagine it probably sucked hearing virtually EVERYWHERE how much people universally hated the flashbacks and everyone in them (except Oliver).  I have yet to hear anyone who enjoyed them.  They were that bad.

[blixie]

That was weak and anti-climactic they couldn't even have him admit he was the Green Arrow, he just gets to be Mayor, ooooh exciting. The flashbacks aren't just terrible anymore they are actively intrusive since they are no threaded into the editing in such a way you really can't even FF, and it makes the actual present time story choppy AF. 

I spent most of the time rolling my eyes, even at DIGGLE. This has become TV I have on while I'm doing other stuff. More Curtis is all I can honestly say that interests me in a S5.