S04.E23: Schism

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

Quote

Oliver teams up with a surprising force in an attempt to stop Damien Darhk and his magic once and for all.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[dtissagirl]

WHELMED.

[apinknightmare]

Well, that wasn't nearly as terrible as I thought it'd be. I really didn't expect Diggle to reenlist. I really liked the resolution, although I thought the rest of the ep was kinda messy. 

[Angel12d]

I was not expecting Diggle to go back to the army! They actually surprised me with that.

[KenyaJ]

Diggle! What are you dooooooing?!

[dtissagirl]

So Diggle re-enlisting is the thing that was gonna get Twitter talking? I admit, I haven't been this surprised by a beat on this show since the not-fake I love you.

[Angel12d]

Was it just me or was this really badly edited? They kept cutting to commercials at the dumbest times.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Angel12d

[Morrigan2575]

ok.

well some good some bad. i absolutely loved the way it ended with Oliver/ Felicity in the lair.  Hate that Dig is back in the army and deploying 

thought the Lance/Donna leaving scene was good. Didn't think much of the Thea final scene. Really hate how they keep trying to make Laurel a fucking saint and the bestest ever.

loved the Felicity/ Curtis roof scene.  i thought the Felicity/ Cooper scene was fantastic. 

thought the riot scene was cheesy as hell. where was that cavernous thingy?

[AyChihuahua]

Those assholes didn't kill Malcolm. Got my hopes up and everything. I hate him SO MUCH. So I guess another season of "Muh dotter, muh dotter."

I love that the big crane shot in the cavernous space was...the lair. How very underwhelming.

[Tallis]

Hopefully Dig is working undercover for Argus so his reenlistment isn't for reals. Also, they must have cut the Black/Baby Canary bits. Thankfully.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Tallis

[dtissagirl]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Was it just me or was this really badly edited? They kept cutting to commercials and the dumbest times.

Sooooper dooooper disjointed and choppy.

[calliope1975]

Well, I'm not sure how I feel about what I just watched. Hmmm...I'm going to have to think about this one for a bit. 

I'm so glad both DD and #Poppy are dead. I guess they decided to cut whatever that BC spotting was about. That's probably for the best. 

I'm not so glad that MM is still breathing. Please kill him or have him go away forever. 

Soooo that last scene with Oliver and Felicity. Summer of sex and rebuilding the lair with the Mayor amirite? 

How fast is Digg going to go AWOL? I get that Digg's upset, but I wish they'd focus more on killing his brother and not that the kill was bad. It wasn't. Lyla, as per usual, was exactly right. 

[Jediknight]

That was mighty nice of Dark's soldiers to just run at the crowd, instead of using their machine guns.  Who knew they had that amount of compassion, and belief in a fair fight?

That whole final battle was like The Dark Knight Rises, without the awesome vehicles, Anne Hathaway in tight leather, Commissioner Gordon being awesome, and an al Ghul.

I was expecting something huge to happen, because of Barry doing what Barry did.  Something that would have to be overturned, a small hint that what Barry did wasn't good, and would have far reaching effects.

[AyChihuahua]

It was better than the S3 finale. Not overtly offensive. Cool that he's mayor, for however long that lasts. I'm kind of meh about it, I guess, but not mad.

The final fight was terrible. Oliver punches--DD punches--Oliver punches--DD punches. On and on ad infinitum.

Where's the creepy kid go now? 

[Morrigan2575]

love that the 2 things people were panicking over were nothing.  no BC in the riot, no Cavernous scene.

[Soulfire]

Oliver was sworn mayor, Diggle rejoined the army, Thea took a time-out, and the episode ended with Oliver and Felicity back in the lair.

Oliver: "I didn't know you'd be here."
Felicity: "You thought I was leaving too? Not a chance."

Felicity: "I'm saying there is a man who killed Dahrk in cold blood and that same man stood on top of a car and gave the city its hope back. What you're feeling is a schism. You're at war with two sides of yourself." ~*~meta~*~

[Angel12d]

For all my annoyance earlier, I actually liked that end with O/F. It was hopeful even if there was no resolution. And I liked the visual of the two of them standing there. Team within a team. Felicity saying "Not a chance" was perfect. 

Yeah, I would have liked more and still feel like they need to properly talk but it was probably the best they could do in the time they had left.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Angel12d

[dtissagirl]

It kinda felt more like a to-do list being checked off than an episode of television.

[SleepDeprived]

I thought that was a pretty good finale. Not super fantastic but good enough that I'm content and am sort of excited about the direction of S5. At least, Team Green Arrow were acting, mostly, smart and actively trying to save the world instead of being selfishly dumb with their actions (looking at you, Barry Allen).

I think the only thing I really didn't like about this episode is all the Saint Laurel stuff. Listen, Show. Your retcon of Laurel's character isn't going to fly. I have all the season box sets, okay. Stop propping her, damn!

[EmeraldArcher]

I enjoyed this one.  It was a lot of fun, had a lot of heart, and at times seemed like a movie thanks to the location shoots, all the extras, and the fabulous score.  

My only complaints are about how this whole episode seemed to pay homage to LL--I hope we're finally done with the that stupidity. Saint Laurel Lance, forever the object of misplaced admiration. Ugh.

[Angel12d]

4 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

Sooooper dooooper disjointed and choppy.

Exactly. They cut away just before the action scenes started. Super annoying. 

[wonderwall]

I might be in the minority for this:

I think Diggle going back to the Army was a welcome surprise! This could do wonders for his character next season

Otherwise, I loved how it ended with Felicity/Oliver. All of Felicity's scenes were fantastic...

The episode actually left me looking forward to a lot of things:

• Oliver/Felicity and them fixing their relationship
• Diggle going back to the army and how he'll return to TA
• MALCOLM FUCKING DYING PLEASE
• Oliver being the Mayor

This episode I'd give 4/5 -- It was fun even though it was choppy

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

love that the 2 things people were panicking over were nothing.  no BC in the riot, no Cavernous scene.

Well, the cavernous scene was just the lair, haha.

[benteen]

I thought there was good and there was bad.  The end was particularly strong.  Definitely didn't expect Diggle to reenlist. 

I'm also tired of St. Laurel. 

Good episode for Oliver and Felicity.

[Angel12d]

Yeah, I'm sorry, but what was up with all the Saint Laurel stuff? The woman they were describing was nothing like the woman I watched for nearly 4 seasons. I'm so sorry but huh?

Edited May 26, 2016 by Angel12d

[nksarmi]

The Laurel was the best of us crap was way too f-ing much. She was not. You know who was? ROY!!!!!!!!!!

I know he's still alive and all that, but the stuff they kept saying about Laurel just didn't really apply to her. It did Roy, but definitely not her.

Oliver is mayor might be interesting.

I know we want to SEE Oliver and Felicity get back together and all, but if they expect me to believe those two spend the whole damn summer running missions together as he runs the city and she runs Palmer tech without make-up sex? Yea, I'm not going to buy that at all. So I expect them to be back together in the season opener but damn it - show me summer love flashbacks, ok?

The episode wasn't the best season finale they've done but Flash set the bar pretty darn low so Arrow exceeded my expectations pretty easily lol.

Just please tell me the St. Laurel stuff can stop next season please?

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Angel12d said:

Yeah, I'm sorry, but what was up with all the Saint Laurel stuff. The woman they were describing was nothing like the woman I watched for nearly 4 seasons. I'm so sorry but huh?

I'd much rather they think of her as a saint than have her be alive hahaha :p

BUT I'm expecting the amount of LL mentions to drop DRASTICALLY next season so there's something else to look forward to!

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Well, the cavernous scene was just the lair, haha.

that was the cavernous scene? ?

[Morena]

[AyChihuahua]

Yeah, I bet LL gets at most the occasional mention next season.

[Mellowyellow]

Is Felicity still running Palmer Tech or is she jobless now?

[EmeraldArcher]

1 minute ago, nksarmi said:

I know we want to SEE Oliver and Felicity get back together and all, but if they expect me to believe those two spend the whole damn summer running missions together as he runs the city and she runs Palmer tech without make-up sex? Yea, I'm not going to buy that at all. So I expect them to be back together in the season opener but damn it - show me summer love flashbacks, ok?

Right?  I'm willing to give up Russia--RUSSIA--just for a whole season of Olicity summer flashbacks.  I want the Summer of Flirting between S2 and S3, and I need the Summer of Love between S3 and S4. And, I'd also like the upcoming Summer of Make-up Sex. 

[jay741982]

Just now, EmeraldArcher said:

Right?  I'm willing to give up Russia--RUSSIA--just for a whole season of Olicity summer flashbacks.  I want the Summer of Flirting between S2 and S3, and I need the Summer of Love between S3 and S4. And, I'd also like the upcoming Summer of Make-up Sex. 

I want all of this!

[wonderwall]

Just now, Mellowyellow said:

Is Felicity still running Palmer Tech or is she jobless now?

She's the majority shareholder for PT, but she is technically jobless. So what I'm getting is she might cash out all her shares (which might be worth a lot depending on how the company is faring) and can live off of that for a while or use that to start her own company

[Angel12d]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'd much rather they think of her as a saint than have her be alive hahaha :p

BUT I'm expecting the amount of LL mentions to drop DRASTICALLY next season so there's something else to look forward to!

Good point. But it was OTT. 

[Morena]

[Lantern7]

That was . . . intense. And ludicrous on many levels. Cannot believe we'll be getting Mayor Oliver. The guy was missing for five years and accused of being a vigilante twice. But he gives the show's version of Bill Pullman's speech in Independence Day, and now he's mayoral material? Also, I don't get how he got 58 percent of a write-in ballot. Sometimes, the show just doesn't give a fuck.

At least Damien didn't go out like a punk, unlike Zoom. Or Hive. Or Vandal Fucking Savage. How did he lose his mojo? Was it because Oliver was filled with the Life Equation or something? And that reminds me . . . when Dark lost his powers, why didn't the crowd bum-rush him? Did they really need to give their beloved Green Arrow the fair fight?

Barrowman really needs to find a new gig, because Malcolm Merlyn suuuuuuuuuuuuccccks.

[BkWurm1]

Solid. 

Except for John reenlisting, there were no surprises but it ended in a good place.  A hopeful place. 

And Curtis's Paul gets to live another day. 

St. Laurel was an irritation because when what they said and what actually happened didn't line up (and boy howdy) it popped me right out to the show.  I can believe that Laurel would tell Thea to stop and figure stuff out.  But the best of us?  Laurel was a mess and was more often the worst not the best but fine, whatever, it is realistic to remake people's images in death. 

I laughed (in relief) when the big schism was just Oliver having a hard time putting two equally real sides of himself together.  I was really worried there would be something that deeply divided the team.  Instead Thea, John and Quentin left to deal with their personal issues, not issues they had with Oliver or the team.

And the team is now Felicity and Oliver.  That last scene was perfect. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by BkWurm1

[NumberCruncher]

See?  All that worrying for nothing.  As far as O/F are concerned, that was a great ending...they're essentially starting over giving them the perfect opportunity to slowly work out their issues in S5.  Also, Felicity got to show her unwavering loyalty to Oliver's mission which hopefully earns her some points with the people who claim she's turned into a heartless bitch.

I thought the episode as a whole was pretty good even despite the shoddy editing.  The fight scenes were top notch, the melodrama was kept to a minimum, the setup to S5 leaves never-ending possibilities.  Overall I'm happy.

Sad Diggle is going back to duty but that's not likely last long at all because if true, the Arrow writers are the worst storytellers ever.

[ottoDbusdriver]

How come the nuke from Siberia to Havenbrook took about 10 minutes, but all these other 15000+ nukes took at least two hours no matter where they were launched from ?  Seriously, none of the other nukes impacted ? None of them.

And that is not how ballistic missiles work -- they are only powered for the first half of the flight or so and then fall the other half.  They sure as hell can't fly parallel to the surface -- that would be a cruise missile and that is not what Felicity and Curtis deflected.

Once again -- the flashbacks were terrible.  In the fucking finale, so many flashbacks.

I couldn't believe with all the bullets flying from the Ghosts in the Arrow lair that not even one member of Team Arrow caught a ricochet or even a simple fleshwound.

Why did Arrow's eyes glow while fighting Darhk ?  Was that all the 'hope' he was collecting from the crowds supporting him ?

If Darhk lost his powers, how come he was still able to monitor Cooper and control the bullet ?  

And why the hell is Malcolm Merlin still alive ?

And what happened to Darhk's daughter ?  Is she still down in Darhk's lair or wherever that was ?  Is she going to be the big bad next season exacting revenge for Arrow killing her daddy ?

[jay741982]

3 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

An in-show middle finger to all the "Kill Felicity" and "Felicity is the most hated" comments, maybe?

(Probably not, but I'd like to think so)

It rages me that Malcolm is a POS Killer who needs to fucking die but no An actual Hero Felicity is the one that needs to die in some people's eyes. 

[Angel12d]

WHY IS MALCOLM STILL ALIVE THOUGH? And he was just strolling around like he was one of the good guys when last episode he was all HIVE. Ugh. 

Seriously, he saves Thea and it's all she needs to just leave him be. And now she realizes she's her father's daughter? WTF. She didn't seem to leave the city though as she was still in Laurel's apartment so I guess she's just left the team. 

[unlfan03]

Well I've done my part to help the season finale watching live for Nielsen, as much as it hurts to watch commercials after a season of getting to fast forward through them and the flash backs. Dang Dig, I know Generals that have fewer ribbons than you, why is it that enlisted soldiers always seem to be so busy. My dad was in for 20 years and his dress blues never had that many ribbons. I like that we had Waller give us "I kill you for justice sake" Oliver, but it didn't redeem the snore worthy flash backs. I think that could have happened in Russia, but unless there is some improvement we are probably going to be let down by the flashbacks of Russia since they are going to shoe horn in the A story line links. Enough with the Laurel propping, it is old, pervasive annoying, we seen it on Flash and to a point on LOT but at least on LOT Sara had a reason to be all nostalgic and I loved her, she was her sister. The episode itself was good, less of a screwy one than Flash. I too am looking forward to next season because the potential, but I'm keeping my expectations low. 

[jay741982]

3 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

That was . . . intense. And ludicrous on many levels. Cannot believe we'll be getting Mayor Oliver. The guy was missing for five years and accused of being a vigilante twice. But he gives the show's version of Bill Pullman's speech in Independence Day, and now he's mayoral material? Also, I don't get how he got 58 percent of a write-in ballot. Sometimes, the show just doesn't give a fuck.

At least Damien didn't go out like a punk, unlike Zoom. Or Hive. Or Vandal Fucking Savage. How did he lose his mojo? Was it because Oliver was filled with the Life Equation or something? And that reminds me . . . when Dark lost his powers, why didn't the crowd bum-rush him? Did they really need to give their beloved Green Arrow the fair fight?

Barrowman really needs to find a new gig, because Malcolm Merlyn suuuuuuuuuuuuccccks.

He got 48 percent 

[wonderwall]

Just now, unlfan03 said:

I too am looking forward to next season because the potential, but I'm keeping my expectations low. 

Only way to watch Arrow :)

[statsgirl]

I am so, so, so very over the Saint Laurel train.  Lance decided not to go back to the force for her, Thea stepped back for her, Oliver killed DD for her.  I get it, she's a better person than anyone else he knows, she's a stronger person because she wouldn't have stopped fighting. And look, the graveyard scene in the pilot got book-ended  but with Felicity instead of Barry.  I get you want to pay the penance for killing an iconic character but please end it now, Arrow.

Otherwise, I liked it.  Going to have to think about it some more but it's probably a good thing Thea stepped back, although I wouldn't say she's like Malcolm because she threatened a child because said child's father was killing her brother, not so sure about Diggle re-enlisting although I'm sure there will be a reason he'll be out by early season 5, and at last Oliver sees what he can do as mayor.  Will Felicity re-take PT, start her own company, or spend the summer cleaning the bunker?

And Poppy finally had a purpose.  I was delighted to see Amanda Waller turn up again to pick up her equipment, and by that I mean Oliver.

So do Quentin and Donna get a Summer of Love now?  Doesn't Donna have a job any more?  Maybe this means I get my PI Quentin and Donna with sidekick Roy solving crimes in Las Vegas.

27 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Was it just me or was this really badly edited? They kept cutting to commercials at the dumbest times.

Aren't commercial breaks put in at the script level?  I know they are for talk/variety shows.

6 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

? And that reminds me . . . when Dark lost his powers, why didn't the crowd bum-rush him? Did they really need to give their beloved Green Arrow the fair fight?

I think they were leaving it to the Green Arrow to fight him. Later, they were fighting Darhk's men.

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And Curtis's Paul gets to live another day. 

I'd forgotten he was on the Death List.  So glad he gets to live, and hopefully through Curtis' transformation next season.

Edited May 26, 2016 by statsgirl

[chaos is welcome]

This episode was so meh for me.

I'm so tired of all the "WWLD" references (What would LAUREL DOOOOOOOOOO?).  Lame.  

The fight sequences were awful.  Please, please, no more magic anything EVER EVER EVER again on this show. 

The only time I felt a real emotional connect was everything Diggle.  Dig and Lyla talking to Sara on the phone, Dig saying goodbye to Lyla and Sara.  That I did NOT see coming, and I suspect a large part of S5 might be Diggle's journey back.  That is the only truly interesting thing for me, because I remember DR saying how, during S1, Dig was five years ahead of Oliver in his coping mechanisms, and was more mature.  Andy's return and betrayal has POTENTIAL for good stuff next season.  I only say potential though, because these show runners are dumb.

Lots of good Diggle/Everybody moments.  I liked the Oliver/Thea hug.  I want Thea to run away and find Roy.  They can work on those babies they talked about when he visited us.  

Lance/Donna was nice. 

The O/F moments were nice, but the lack of physical touching bothered me.  The world was ending and all.  I feel like they nipped a whole story line out of the finale, with that whole bit in the ep description awhile back about Oliver finding something out from Noah, or whatever.  Dear old dad loses major points for listening to Donna and splitting, and NOT returning when doomsday was upon them again.  I feel like the past few eps have been a revolving door of additional hacker help.  

The only good thing about the island, besides Poppy's death FINALLY, was the book in the chest.  They DO remember season 1 sometimes.  I'm having a really hard time rectifying this version of Oliver with where he was in S1, so we'll see what Russia gives us.  Weird that they didn't even tease how he gets there a little.  Which worries me, because that means they aren't thinking ahead at all.

Excitement for next season is <0.  It's amazing that Laurel can continue to suck my enjoyment out of the show even after her death. 

Did I mention, PLEASE NO MORE MAGIC? EVER AGAIN??? 

[SleepDeprived]

David Ramsey was correct. Baby Sara does steal scenes, even when it's just her voice. That phone call was really cute. And, as always, Lyla's presence in the episode made me happy. She's just great. Diggle really should just listen to her all the time because killing Andy was the right action. The only thing that I disagreed with Lyla on was her wrong call to try to get her A.R.G.U.S. people to kill Darhk, though. Poor, nameless agents. But I'm here for possible Diggle Family Drama in S5! Especially if it leads to more Lyla on my tv!

Cooper's final moment actually made me care about him. That was kinda sad. His scenes with Felicity were pretty good this episode.

I did laugh (quite a bit) that, after all those bullets flying around the lair, the only fallen mannequin was Laurel's during the shootout. Heh. Anvilicious symbolism!