S06.E05: The Door

[Avaleigh]

52 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

As for the Tormund-Brienne shipping, you guys know that Wildings tend to rape their women. Right? Just saying.

Is there any reason the show has given to think that Tormund is a rapist? Has he made some comment that I'm forgetting about carrying women off or something? I'm definitely not getting the vibe that he's looking to rape Brienne. He looks like he's in awe of her and respects her. He's probably never seen a woman in nice armor like that before. Given how so many women in wildling culture are fighters, I imagine that part of the initial attraction for him is that she's clearly a warrior who can fight even if he hasn't yet had the opportunity to see her fight.

While I'm admittedly preferring the idea of Tormund and Brienne, in thinking about your comment it's kind of funny that Brienne's other potential love interest is the guy who was shown raping his sister. (Yes, I know that the showruners claim that it became consensual. Whatever.) I still like Jaime and Brienne but I suspect that Brienne would probably be happier with Tormund in the long run.

[Arnella]

Quote

As for the Tormund-Brienne shipping, you guys know that Wildings tend to rape their women. Right? Just saying.

Whoa!  I am not fan of the Wildings. Jon's adventures over the wall bored me silly and I haven't paid them that much attention since but where is this coming from?  Gilly's father was a serial rapist/child abuser and I'm sure there is just as much rape as the rest of the 7 Kingdoms (which is a LOT) but I wouldn't say all men are rapists on either side of the wall.  Maybe you are thinking of the Dothraki who's women have no sexual rights and who seem to use rape as an instrument of warfare?

Edited May 27, 2016 by Arnella

[Macbeth]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Brune_of_Brownhollow

According to this it's House Brune, but I didn't see the Sigil.

Thanks Umbelina - it is good to know.  I am not sure how it fits (or will fit) into the TV show.  I imagine this might be answered in the books.

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, Arnella said:

Whoa!  I am not fan of the Wildings. Jon's adventures over the wall bored me silly and I haven't paid them that much attention since but where is this coming from?  Gilly's father was a serial rapist/child abuser and I'm sure there is just as much rape as the rest of the 7 Kingdoms (which is a LOT) but I wouldn't say all men are rapists on either side of the wall.  Maybe you are thinking of the Dothraki who's women have no sexual rights and who seem to use rape as an instrument of warfare?

In the books, aren't the rest of the Wildlings fairly disgusted with Craster? Even if the marriage ritual is capturing your bride, the bride can kill the potential groom if the groom isn't quick enough and the women, for the most part, are raised to be fighters. 

[paigow]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Brune_of_Brownhollow

According to this it's House Brune, but I didn't see the Sigil.

Is House Mormont the Northern equivalent of Apple? Did they copyright all images of complete bears?

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Is there any reason the show has given to think that Tormund is a rapist?

Westeros CSI would have to interview the bear...make sure it was consensual...

[Shimmergloom]

The thing with wildling men kidnapping women to become spearwives is that they have to know beforehand if the woman really wants them, cause otherwise the woman is likely to slit their throat in the night.  So I would imagine with that clause in there, it seems almost like the wildlings are the most progressive of the societies, being as they seem to acknowledge that the woman has some sayso in the matter.  Whereas if Sansa had slit Ramsay's throat for raping and torturing her, things would not have gone well for her.

I think we saw that take place between Jon and Ygritte. When she was his captive, she seemed to be letting him know she was receptive, probably thinking he didn't kill her, cause he wanted her.  But when he didn't seem receptive, she escaped.  Then when Jon was Ygritte's captive, she seemed to be making sure he was receptive to her, before they had sex. 

I think that was one of the reasons why she was so hurt when he returned to the Night's Watch.  From her viewpoint, he had made a vow to her that was above any other vow.

[morgankobi]

So if Wylis continued to live and grow-up in Winterfell, where everyone knew him, after the "accident," why did everyone start calling him by a totally different name? Seems awfully cruel to call someone the only word they can say when you know their actual name.

[Oscirus]

OT but I just realized that Lyanna got spear wifed. LOL at that.

I based my comments off the wilding culture in general and I was talking more about Tormund's mentality as opposed to his intentions with Brienne.

Quote

I still like Jaime and Brienne but I suspect that Brienne would probably be happier with Tormund in the long run.

Brienne first liked Renly, then she liked Jaime, it seems to me that she has a type and Tormund ain't it.

[Chris24601]

1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Brienne first liked Renly, then she liked Jaime, it seems to me that she has a type and Tormund ain't it.

Yeah, her type is "those who are kind to her." She liked Renly because he took pity on her. She liked Jaime because he saved her life because his honor demanded it.

Basically, Brienne got used to settling because of how other people viewed her. But every woman deserves a man who will treat her like a goddess. Tormund is the first guy she's ever met who just adores her from the start for who she actually is. She's just NOT used to that.

[paigow]

9 hours ago, morgankobi said:

Seems awfully cruel to call someone the only word they can say when you know their actual name.

Similarly, if everyone referred to Jamie exclusively as "Lefty".....

[Oscirus]

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 8:33 AM, Chris24601 said:

Yeah, her type is "those who are kind to her." She liked Renly because he took pity on her. She liked Jaime because he saved her life because his honor demanded it.

Basically, Brienne got used to settling because of how other people viewed her. But every woman deserves a man who will treat her like a goddess. Tormund is the first guy she's ever met who just adores her from the start for who she actually is. She's just NOT used to that.

If that were the case then she would be into Pod. Just because she can't get her pick of men doesn't mean she's just into any man that gives her positive attention. I'd say that from her previous attractions, that she's into more refined, upper class men.

Maybe Tormund could make her happy if she gave him a chance but I doubt she would.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Oscirus

[KaleyFirefly]

On 5/23/2016 at 4:46 PM, Le Renard said:

They're burning through the story rapidly this season. It's rushed. It's disappointing that RR Martin didn't finish at least 1 of the 2 books. We could have had a richer, more fleshed out story.

My theory is that GRRM has gotten tired of writing the books, and is in no hurry to finish them. I think at this point he is just enjoying the money rolling in from the TV show. Book 6 may be out this year though. But the show will long be over by the time there's any Book 7, if it ever gets written.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 5/23/2016 at 5:17 PM, RedheadZombie said:

I certainly don't find castration and flaying fun and entertainment, are people here claiming they do?  I certainly haven't seen it.

Regarding the direwolves - There will always be people upset when animals are killed on TV and in movies, and there will always be people who have problems with that.  Beyond the wolves looking like giant dogs - which a lot people love - there's the fact that they are so bonded with their owner.  And they've either given their lives to protect their Stark (Shaggy Dog, Summer), been killed because they belonged to a Stark (Grey Wind), or been killed by proxy for protecting a Stark (Lady).

And if you believe that each Stark child is connected supernaturally to their dire wolves, and you care about that Stark, you're going to be worried when their dire wolf dies.  They're also connected to a time when life was simpler and happy at Winterfell.  And I'm glad that show lore doesn't involve the wolves feeling their siblings' loss.  Poor Ghost would have been howling for a while now.

It's kind of ironic that people were worrying that Jon's resurrection would involve Ghost's death, and then relieved that Ghost is fine.  Then BAM - Shaggy Dog and Summer.  At this point, I believe the long wished for return of Nymeria will result in a long torturous death.

Thank you for explaining that! I can't believe there are people who don't care about the direwolves. I get upset when I see something bad happen to an animal, even if it's on TV where I know it's not real.

Given the writers' inclinations, though, I worry that Ghost is not long for this world.

[stillshimpy]

First of all, hello keyboard, my darling.  Long time no see, too long, too long.  Also, apologies to everyone who doesn't have me on ignore and had to suffer through the post I made while trying to use the dictation feature therein discovering that apparently I alternately sound like I'm from Boston, where I live entirely on mush and marbles.  Or a drunken hillbilly on payday.  I have no idea why I am unable to edit while using an ipad, but I now can and have tried to catch all the surrealist-film-festival errors. Onwards:  

Tormund's romantic habits:  actually the show has given us to understand that he might actually be a considerate partner.  He was the one telling Jon to make sure Ygritte was...uh...in the mood.  There were references to seals, so let's not dwell too much.  However, it does at least indicate that he isn't planning on overcoming Brienne to express his feelings of adoration, that have no actual resemblance to my feelings about my keyboard (I'm sure you're all vastly relieved).  

Tormund is loyal and brave as hell.  He has his own form of honor and if Brienne would talk to him for a few minutes -- I'm talking about show Tormund, not Book, she might actually kind of dig him.  

[TxanGoddess]

 I marathoned through the whole season this past weekend, and now I feel like a little kid going out to play just after all the other kids went down for naps. 

In any case, for anyone who revisits this topic, there's one moment in this episode on which I would be interested in hearing additional interpretations.  When Jon, Sansa and Ser Davos are planning the campaign to get some of the Northern houses on board with them, and Ser Davos says something about Jon not having the Stark name.  Sansa then replies "No but I do," and Jon gives her a very strange look.  I'd like to hear what others think it was intended to convey about Jon's thoughts at the moment.

I also don't think it's lack of trust that made Sansa cagey about LF with Jon.  I think she knew that she may very well need the knights of the Vale as a backup, but also knew that Jon would want very badly for her NOT to have to ask LF to bring them (maybe even going so far as to try to forbid her from doing so if the idea was presented to him).  So she was playing around his honor blind spot yet again by just not ever bringing it up as a possibility, and then calling in LF when it was too late for Jon to object -- better even, late enough for him to be grateful.  And I think her apology to Jon in episode 10 for not telling him, which she gives without offering any explanation for why she kept it on the downlo, is pretty solid evidence this is the case too.  But again, I'm all about everyone else's opinions. 

Otherwise RIP Hodor, Summer.

Edited July 5, 2016 by TxanGoddess

[Hecate7]

On 5/28/2016 at 7:33 AM, Chris24601 said:

Yeah, her type is "those who are kind to her." She liked Renly because he took pity on her. She liked Jaime because he saved her life because his honor demanded it.

Basically, Brienne got used to settling because of how other people viewed her. But every woman deserves a man who will treat her like a goddess. Tormund is the first guy she's ever met who just adores her from the start for who she actually is. She's just NOT used to that.

She likes extremely pretty men who are kind to her. I don't notice any crush on Pod, and he's very kind to her. He's also pretty, but not in the same way as Renly or Jaime. She likes extremely pretty, kingly men who are kind to her.

[whateverdgaf]

52 minutes ago, Hecate7 said:

She likes extremely pretty men who are kind to her. I don't notice any crush on Pod, and he's very kind to her. He's also pretty, but not in the same way as Renly or Jaime. She likes extremely pretty, kingly men who are kind to her.

Plus, Tormund only likes her for her looks. Jaime likes her for her personality, for her her honour and her bravery. If Brienne was conventionally attractive then no one would be saying she should be with the guy who is only interested due to his sexual attraction to her, so why should it be the other way round because she isn't?

[John Potts]

Sansa was 100% right to shout at Littlefinger about Ramsay, though she still should have listened to what he said. And even if you think he's lying/trying to trap you, you still should have told Jon about the offer of troops (in private to Jon if you don't trust the others). It may be a trick, but you, Jon and the Wildlings are all going to be horribly killed (and/or tortured) if you don't get more men?

Love Game of Thrones - the pantomime! Can't believe anybody would be starting to watch at this point, but it was a reasonable recap of Season 1.

Errr Varys? You of all people should know that in public, you need to keep a united front - it's what Missendei & Greyworm did. I guess it didn't matter in this case, but I'd imagine you've had many disagreements over the years and not brought them up publicly.

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 3:12 AM, screamin said:

Fuck Bran Stark... he gets Bloodraven, the Direwolf, a number of Children and Hodor killed (and retroactively brain-damaged) by undertaking an action he knew damned well was dangerous

It was Bran's fault, but maybe Bloodraven should have established a few safety lessons first - did he just allow Hodor (and Summer) to be killed to teach Bran that messing with the past is dangerous? Otherwise, that particular trip to the past seemed rather unnecessary, given he knew the defences were down. Or was it all fate - they were all meant to die where they did (the Night King's slaying of Bloodraven reminded me of when Neo killed Agent Smith in the first Matrix with the way he flew into pieces - or SPOILER! - everyone dying at the end of Infinity War) which has all sorts of implications for freewill. At least Meera managed to take down another Walker - 3 down, ???? to go!

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 9:02 PM, FemmyV said:

Kingsmoot proves you can do drama without a built-up, expensive set. Euron is way more normal than I expected from the book, and it's easy to see why he won the argument: Euron brings the party! Asha & Theon stealing off with the ships was awesome. Someday, Theon will be able to speechify all he wants. But not this day.

I LIKED the Kingsmoot in the Book, but this portrayal seemed kinda underwhelming (they couldn't spring for some pine cones/turnips?) and not just due to the reduction to only two candidates. I'd probably vote Euron over Asha/Yara on that performance, though (I mean, assuming I was a piratical rapist). Hey, was that a Lord of the Rings reference at the end?

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 9:38 PM, mrspidey said:

If the crew of a longship is about 20 to 30 men strong, Euron would need at least 20000 Ironborn to man those. Considering most of the Ironborn sailors absconded with Yara, i find it hard to believe the Iron Islands are even remotely capable of mustering such a force.

This is why I HATED the Euron story in the Books. Somehow the Ironborn are capable of conquering the Reach when they couldn't hang onto the (closer) North? Did the Iron Isles just double in population when Euron returned?

On ‎23‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 3:29 AM, RedheadZombie said:

So to be king of the iron islands you have to be drowned?  So some kind of magic brings them back, or are we to assume they are the walking dead?  What if they don't come back after drowning?

It's just resuscitation (clearer in the books). People do die from it, but Aeron (Damphair) prides himself he personally has never lost a man yet. Though what's completely dissimilar to the books is the fact that Euron went through with it as he scorns the Drowned God and Damphair is one of his main opponents (He says "No Godless man may sit in the Seastone Chair!" about as often as "No woman may sit in the Seastone Chair!").

Spoiler

Though it doesn't work out so well for Damphair in the sample Chapters that have been released.