S07.E29: Pete & Pedro, PMS Bites, Felt, PavLok

[NikSac]

One thing I liked about the PMS bites is that from the episode write up before the show aired I saw "product designed for women" and I was thinking "oh great, they're going to slap some pink and crystals on something and sell it as just for women."  It definitely was just for women and not because it was pink or bedazzled. I also agree with those who think they're overpriced chocolate snacks and any PMS relief claims are probably false... but at least it was a product truly sold for women, or being marketed for women anyway.

[cmfran]

Maybe I'm old and lame, but I have little tolerance for the ever-growing community of "influencers" that we've all decided are experts on something because they've got YouTube followers. Why, again, should I listen to Mr. "Alpha M's" opinion on anything? Oh, because he's charismatic and good looking. Got it.

[columbot]

"Influencing" really isn't anything new. Ever since someone had the bright idea to have celebrities hawk products it's been going on. It's just that these Youtube people aren't already famous. Why listen to anyone for advice on anything? If they sound trustworthy, people will listen.

I don't mind the Felt app that much, but I hated his presentation. They guy's ham-fisted intro was trying to convince us that it's just SO MUCH HASSLE to go and buy a greeting card (complete with unnecessary pantomiming of a person driving a car), and because of that there's a Great Handwritten Card Shortage that is killing out society today. Uh, what? Since when is it too much trouble to buy a card? Most people just plop a few in their cart while they're shopping for groceries or other stuff, anyway. If people aren't sending cards as much now, it's because it's easier to just text someone if you want to talk to them. I don't particularly need to see something handwritten to feel like it's real human contact.

I agree with what others have said about the PMS Bites. Not everything that has to do with women is fueled by latent sexism. Anybody can eat PMS Bites. It's not medicine that specifically needs to be taken by women only. There's no reason why it can't be marketed more broadly, and still carry a notice or something that it'll help women with PMS. Marketing specifically to PMS when your product really has no actual relation to it is not a great strategy. As far as the presenter herself, I think she has a low-key sarcastic sense of humor that probably didn't convey her actual passion very well, which is why Barbara said she didn't seem driven enough. I know the Sharks always think they're experts at figuring people from just a few minutes, but Barb may have been wrong on her assessment there.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, cmfran said:

Maybe I'm old and lame, but I have little tolerance for the ever-growing community of "influencers" that we've all decided are experts on something because they've got YouTube followers. Why, again, should I listen to Mr. "Alpha M's" opinion on anything? Oh, because he's charismatic and good looking. Got it.

I didn't even think that guy was very charming or charismatic. I guess he was kind of good looking, but he seemed so sales-y and fake that it turned me off.

[Jamoche]

6 hours ago, columbot said:

"Influencing" really isn't anything new. Ever since someone had the bright idea to have celebrities hawk products it's been going on.

Which goes back to the time of gladiators, if I remember my history of graffiti correctly :)

[Ottis]

Quote

 

I stand by my comments. Saying she's "losing half the market" by focusing on a woman's product is what really chapped my ass and set me off. It was just fine for the first guy to market MEN'S hair products with no mention of "losing half the market".

I don't like the name "PMS Bites", either, but the way they acted was dismissive of women, period. Pun intended.

 

I didn't read it this way at all. Unlike marketing to sporty people, or people who might have kids, marketing to women means you are not marketing to a large segment of people who won't ever become your target market. People without kids often later have kids. People who aren't sporty might take up a sporty hobby. Sometimes women use products targeted to men (in fact, you can argue whether marking a men's and women's version of hair color or a razor is anything more than marketing). Men ... are unlikely to become women AND want to address their PMS. If investing is about potential, then the way that product was presented eliminates half the market, period. I even wondered whether the male sharks should be eating them, before she explained what was in them. And if you remove her unique angle, as one shark said, you basically have an allegedly healthy snack and that's where they would bring out the "you're competing against giants who will squash you like a bug" rationale. Not an exciting investment.

I still don't get the Pavlok thing. Robert said it early on ... if you have the discipline to shock yourself before a bad habit, then why don't you have the discipline to not do the bad habit?

Edited May 23, 2016 by Ottis

[needschocolate]

I have no opinion on the hair gell guy's deal, because I am not quite sure what he ended up selling a piece of.  I think the hair products he came in trying to get a deal on was a stupid product to invest in, but I guess his other "product" - whatever it was - has more potential.

If you want/need to send a handwritten note and you don't want to go to the store to buy a card, then just keep a box of blank notecards in and some stamps in a drawer and use them.  You will probably spend less time writing the address then you would choosing which Felt card to send.  I did like the way you could incorporate photos into the Felt card.  You can probably do that with a number of other sites, but  probably would have to buy a minimum of 20-25 cards - and the Felt card woull probably arrive sooner, than waiting for some company to deliver the cards then writing it yourself (hmm, maybe I need to get a shock watch for my overuse of the word "probably")  

PMS Bites - I maybe alone in this, but I thought the name was rather clever in that it had a double meaning - Bties because they are a bite of food, but also the slang "Bites" ans in "PMS sucks!"  If this is truly something that would benefit people other than PMSing females, then why not tweak the recipe slightly and churn out a second product - "Life Bites" that could be marketed to everyone (or make lollipops - Life Sucks).  That way she has her niche market and can also sell to the general population.  Of course, the number of people that would spend $7 for 3 little bonbons is very small.  

I found her presentation kind of funny too - the way she spoke in monotone with little expression.  Barbara says - You don't seem passionate, and she replies, in monotone, with little expression, "I am very passionate."  Sure didn't look it. Perhaps she was just nervous, but her "Style" wasn't helping her any (especially if she actually followed hair gel guy in his presentations).   

On 5/21/2016 at 8:30 PM, mjc570 said:

I thought the last guy, with the shock watch, was a little weird, but I think he was probably correct about working with Kevin.  On the other hand, his valuation was ridiculous, and he might have been better off taking the deal.  I have to admit, if they were cheaper, I might buy one since I have a number of habits I could break with some conditioning. Of course a rubber band around the wrist probably works the same, but its hard to find one that's not too loose or too tight. 

I can see why the shock watch would be better than a rubber band in some situations. Someone else (someone you trust completely), could control the shock - for example, if you want to stop saying "like" or "um" "or "so" multiple times when you speak, you aren't going to be able to shock yourself, because you probably don't notice how often your say it.  But you don't have to spend $200 on it.  They sell collars for dogs that will shock, but some also make a noise or just vibrate a little - so it doesn't have to be painful, it could just be annoying.  Just make the collar small enough to fit on your wrist or your ankle (so it isn't as visible).  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Pavlov's Dog Of A Product Ends Shark Tank's Season

Season 7 ends like so many of the 28 episodes that preceded it, with a guy who's got no business being on the show wasting everybody's time.

[Tony2016]

On 5/21/2016 at 8:26 PM, KaveDweller said:

I thought Mark was being kind of a dick to the Pavlok guy. He had a point, but he didn't need to be so rude about it. I was actually glad the guy was being strong arguing back. However. He totally lost me with what he said to Kevin. I realize Kevin isn't the nicest Shark, but it was a legitimate offer and Pavlok guy shouldn't have dismissed him like that, especially after admitting he liked the deal. But it's one thing to chose one Shark over another, but to dismiss your only offer because you don't like the guy? At least pretend it's about the deal.

I like the idea behind Felt, but isn't it kind of the opposite of what his pitch said. It's really nice to get a card that was personally addressed/written, but writing on your tablet and reusing the info is actually not personally addressing things. A person is going to see that it was printed out. And since most people don't know other people's handwriting, they may think it is just one of those computer fonts meant to look like handwriting. Of course, I was once at a bridal shower where each guest was asked to address an envelope that the bride would use for thank you notes. So, a recycled screen capture of writing an address is a big step up from that.

I am curious about what the Felt guy said though. He said he needs an investment so he can pay his rent. Can he actually do that? Isn't the investment for the actual business and not just to take as some form of salary?

I actually liked that Pavlok guy dismissed Kevin. At least one person had the balls to do it on the show. If he doesn't like Kevin he doesn't Kevin. Say it. I like the variety of different attitudes. Kevin needs a kick in the balls once a while. He always acts like he's superior and the smarter guy around.  It's a wake up call for Kevin that some people really do not like him.

[lh25]

I thought the Pavlock guy took a little too much pleasure in shocking the Sharks on that higher level myself.

[Tony2016]

Greeting cards are available in every super market. Buy a bunch of them when you buy your groceries which most people do at least once a week. In many other countries, you have to go to a bookstore to buy them. Americans.. stop being so f*cking lazy. That's why many Americans are fat and obese.. from lack of movement. Everything has to be within arms reach.

If you want to send a hand written personal card, use your pen. As a receiver I will appreciate your effort. I want to see real ink on the paper instead of letting me know that you were too lazy. How long does it take to hand sign each card? Your hand getting tired. Take a break and sign some more later. Sign them whiel watching TV if you think the effort is that laborious. Unless you're a celebrity and sending hundreds of cards.

A lot of products just promote more laziness. 

Also which tablet or phone is going to make you able to hand write legibly anyways? They suck bad. If you send me a card with such a signature, I will not appreciate it.

[columbot]

Yeah, I forgot to mention the other Sharks' defense of Kevin. All episode long they rip him and his offers. Barbara especially has made it be known that she doesn't want to do a deal with him and thinks he's a nightmare to work with. They all say these things without hesitation on the air. But when someone else says it, they're quick to comfort him and tell him everything's gonna be alright. I guess they're fine with insulting him as long as they're the ones doing it.

[Jamoche]

WTF, CBS local news (KPIX): they just ran a promo for a segment on the Pavlok. The talking head in the clip was not the guy who was on Shark Tank. I suppose I have to watch it now just so I can report on it here.

[Silly Angel]

Quote

BUT WHAT OF PIPCORN? I must know!

Quoting myself, but just to point out it was a joke, y'all. I feel like they've updated that stupid company a billion times. Popcorn is already small. I don't get it.

[NikSac]

1 hour ago, Silly Angel said:

Quoting myself, but just to point out it was a joke, y'all. I feel like they've updated that stupid company a billion times. Popcorn is already small. I don't get it.

Oh!  Thanks. :) Sorry, I am fairly new to following this forum so still learning names and who posts about what.

[LADreamr]

I was happy to see someone turn Kevin down, too.  I can't stand him, and his "offers" always seem crazy to me.  He doesn't come off as a shark, so much as a loan shark.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Pavlov's Dog Of A Product Ends Shark Tank's Season

Season 7 ends like so many of the 28 episodes that preceded it, with a guy who's got no business being on the show wasting everybody's time.

[Samsnee]

I can't be the only one who saw Kevin's eyes get watery when Pavlok guy said "anyone but Kevin" can I?

[basiltherat]

The other sharks ribbing Kevin is part of the schtick of the show.  When someone looking for their money does it, that's another story!  If you want to be a businessman, you have to act like you want to do business.  It shows others that  you are untrustworthy and that you can turn on them too.  Would you want your money to go to a jerk like that?  and never come back?

[Jamoche]

2 hours ago, basiltherat said:

The other sharks ribbing Kevin is part of the schtick of the show.  When someone looking for their money does it, that's another story!  If you want to be a businessman, you have to act like you want to do business.  It shows others that  you are untrustworthy and that you can turn on them too.  Would you want your money to go to a jerk like that?  and never come back?

Yeah, and he did back Wicked Good cupcakes, which has been cheering my grandmother up for some time now, so he may not make the most enticing offers but he does seem to do good by his companies.

Now, if he'd been the one to blame for Tipsy Elves, I might be less forgiving.

[needschocolate]

5 hours ago, basiltherat said:

The other sharks ribbing Kevin is part of the schtick of the show.  When someone looking for their money does it, that's another story!  If you want to be a businessman, you have to act like you want to do business.  It shows others that  you are untrustworthy and that you can turn on them too.  Would you want your money to go to a jerk like that?  and never come back?

It is kind of like siblings, it is okay for me to say my sister is a slut, but you better not call my sister a slut (for the record, my sister is not a slut, well, technically, I don't have a sister, but if I did, I am confident she wouldn't be a slut)

[KaveDweller]

I also feel like the Sharks wouldn't want a person saying that to them, so they were offended at the idea of being disrespectful of a Shark.  A sort of pack mentality thing.

[ae2]

Slap an accelerometer in that bracelet and market it for chronic masturbators wanting to break the habit. Then you have a billion dollar product.

 

Otherwise you may as well carry 9V battery in your pocket.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, ae2 said:

Slap an accelerometer in that bracelet and market it for chronic masturbators wanting to break the habit.

I don't think that exists.

[LeGrandElephant]

The Pavlok pitched seemed to be weirdly edited. Did Mark really jump in being rude before the guy even said what it did? I was confused that Mark seemed to be saying it was a scam before the guy even got to the part which clearly would fail, which is the idea that you are going to sit and push the button yourself when you do something bad. I bite my nails and there's no way I would sit and hit that thing myself every time I bite my nails. I'm usually not that conscious I'm doing it, because its a habit, and even if I noticed, purposely zapping myself afterwards is not gonna happen. And there's no way that bracelet can automatically tell the difference between me biting my nails and me raising my wrist to do anything else. So it wouldn't work at all unless you had someone else watching you and deciding when to zap you (and in that case they could still do something free, like pinch you or spray you with a water bottle). So it seemed to me that they should be focusing on that serious design flaw, not on the idea that he was referencing studies that had been done in the past. 

I think the editing made me honestly confused as to how badly the guy was representing the studies. He said something like some percent of users quit their habit within 7 days. The word "users" makes it sound like that data was from his product. Or was that data actually not from his product, and really from previous studies on aversion therapy in a whole different setting? If the latter, I can see why Mark was so upset about the studies thing. But I couldn't even tell what he was saying with all the cuts and yelling. 

It was pretty hilarious that Lori apparently didn't feel the shock at all, and no one checked if hers was actually turned up, they just accepted that she was immune to shocks. 

Do they have any way the Pavlok can automatically sense you doing any kind of habit, like checking facebook? I don't see how it could accurately sense any physical habit like nail biting, but maybe it could be configured to track your computer use somehow...?

Has anyone tried the Felt app? I might use that for sending cards to my elderly grandmother who doesn't use the internet and insists on handwritten letters. But what return address shows on the envelope? She might be confused by mail that has a company's return address on it, and think its junk mail. And can they be mailed to addresses in other countries? (Years ago, I used an app that would let me send a postcard from my phone with a photo I took, in order to send personalized postcards to my grandmother, but the main reason I didn't use it much is that I didn't like the lack of privacy of sending a family vacation photo that wasn't inside an envelope.)

Re: losing half the market. I think the distinction is that people who don't have kids are not a potential market for a kid-spying app, and people who don't like to surf are not a potential market for a surfboard. But, people who like to eat snacks ARE a potential market for a snack, and so naming it something that makes it sound like its only for a subset of the population is losing part of the potential market of people that actually might want the product, rather than losing out on a market who would never want it anyway. 

Was surprised PMS bites didn't even seem to say what herbs were in it or offer any evidence that they do anything. Did Mark complain about that? 

On May 22, 2016 at 0:50 PM, Jamoche said:

Midol, which used to be ubiquitously pitched as the cure-all, does nothing for me. (Ibuprofen, now - there's a wonder drug.)

Hate to say it, but Midol is ibuprofen... or maybe I misunderstood your comment?

Edited June 1, 2016 by LeGrandElephant

[Jamoche]

2 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Hate to say it, but Midol is ibuprofen... or maybe I misunderstood your comment?

Wikipedia says it's got one ibuprofen version now, but the main one is acetaminophen and caffeine. It definitely wasn't using it when I was in high school because ibuprofen (Motrin, then) wasn't OTC yet.

[LeGrandElephant]

1 hour ago, Jamoche said:

Wikipedia says it's got one ibuprofen version now, but the main one is acetaminophen and caffeine. It definitely wasn't using it when I was in high school because ibuprofen (Motrin, then) wasn't OTC yet.

 

Interesting. When I google "midol" (which I did before posting to make sure I wasn't remembering wrong), google's own definitions thing says at the top that it is "ibuprofen", and then shows further information for ibuprofen. Now that I look more closely, that seems to be a flaw in google's definitions, because it looks like there currently is no thing being sold just as "midol", there are various versions with other names like "midol complete," which have different painkillers in them (I'm used to seeing the one with ibuprofen and I guess google is too). So that Google result actually could be giving people incorrect medical info if they don't look closely, and I'm surprised they set it up that way.

Edited June 1, 2016 by LeGrandElephant

[Quickbeam]

On 5/21/2016 at 2:29 PM, basiltherat said:

When they were giving the spiel on Ms PMS, I said to myself, "It can't be for the period" and of course it was.

OMG, me too!

When I was in my fertile years there is no way on this earth I'd go into a store and buy something named PMS Bites. It just seems wrong to treat a medical state with candy (remember Ayds?).

[ClareWalks]

I worked at Walgreens for a little while, and I remember that most women were totally mortified to be buying tampons and chocolates at the same time. I cannot imagine that most women would gleefully put a box of Kotex and some PMS Bites up on the counter to pay for 'em.

[needschocolate]

On 6/1/2016 at 3:13 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

The Pavlok pitched seemed to be weirdly edited. Did Mark really jump in being rude before the guy even said what it did? I was confused that Mark seemed to be saying it was a scam before the guy even got to the part which clearly would fail, which is the idea that you are going to sit and push the button yourself when you do something bad. I bite my nails and there's no way I would sit and hit that thing myself every time I bite my nails. I'm usually not that conscious I'm doing it, because its a habit, and even if I noticed, purposely zapping myself afterwards is not gonna happen. And there's no way that bracelet can automatically tell the difference between me biting my nails and me raising my wrist to do anything else. So it wouldn't work at all unless you had someone else watching you and deciding when to zap you (and in that case they could still do something free, like pinch you or spray you with a water bottle). So it seemed to me that they should be focusing on that serious design flaw, not on the idea that he was referencing studies that had been done in the past. 

I think the editing made me honestly confused as to how badly the guy was representing the studies. He said something like some percent of users quit their habit within 7 days. The word "users" makes it sound like that data was from his product. Or was that data actually not from his product, and really from previous studies on aversion therapy in a whole different setting? If the latter, I can see why Mark was so upset about the studies thing. But I couldn't even tell what he was saying with all the cuts and yelling. 

It was pretty hilarious that Lori apparently didn't feel the shock at all, and no one checked if hers was actually turned up, they just accepted that she was immune to shocks. 

Do they have any way the Pavlok can automatically sense you doing any kind of habit, like checking facebook? I don't see how it could accurately sense any physical habit like nail biting, but maybe it could be configured to track your computer use somehow...?

You have given me an idea for the product I would pitch to the sharks...It is a way to stop people from biting their nails.  Basically, it would just be watch batteries and a tube of the stuff they use to glue on fake nails.  Nailbiters would glue the batteries to their nails and every time they put their nails to their mouth to bite them, they would get a shock.  I would decorate the batteries so that they would be fashionable.  

Of course, I would never get a deal because I wouldn't be able to quit my job and put 110% of my time into my venture and I would need to much help from the sharks and I wouldn't want to give up more than 4% of my company, which I would be asking for $2 million for.  

Besides, I can't think of a clever name.

[bilgistic]

Shockstop?

[ava111]

On 5/21/2016 at 1:36 PM, bilgistic said:

I'm not necessarily saying it'd be my first choice, but when I'm curled up in the fetal position in extreme cramping pain DAYS before my period even starts, I'd be open to trying anything. Herbs, elephant tranquilizers, handgun, napalm, whatever. Nearly every woman in my family suffers/ed the same symptoms.

Try oral contraceptives. For the past 20 years if I didn't notice by getting low on pills in the pack I  wouldn't even know that I'm about to get period as I have absolutely no cramps and pain and I'm not irritable as hell.