Lethal Weapon in the Media: "Well, I got news for you, Rog: I'm not crazy."

[catrice2]

He was just channeling Mel Gibson..give him s break?

[cam3150]

I don't understand how shrapnel from a special effects explosion gone wrong hitting Damon in the head is Clayne's fault? Yes, it was the episode he directed but I would imagine he was not directly involved in any kind of pyro special effects procedures.  They would have experts for that.  Blaming Clayne for that incident (or trying to imply that Clayne somehow orchestrated the explosion to hit Damon on purpose -- really, Damon????) is just silly and completely childish.

I don't know about the other allegations, and maybe they did happen. Clayne becoming uninsurable would certainly explain all of this and it makes a bit more sense now.  I just have an issue with the explosion /shrapnel itself, and that incident somehow being Clayne's fault, or the implication that he did it on purpose. I just do not buy that AT. ALL.  

Edited May 15, 2018 by cam3150

[jewel21]

1 hour ago, cam3150 said:

I don't understand how shrapnel from a special effects explosion gone wrong hitting Damon in the head is Clayne's fault? Yes, it was the episode he directed but I would imagine he was not directly involved in any kind of pyro special effects procedures.  They would have experts for that.  Blaming Clayne for that incident (or trying to imply that Clayne somehow orchestrated the explosion to hit Damon on purpose -- really, Damon????) is just silly and completely childish.

I don't know about the other allegations, and maybe they did happen. Clayne becoming uninsurable would certainly explain all of this and it makes a bit more sense now.  I just have an issue with the explosion /shrapnel itself, and that incident somehow being Clayne's fault, or the implication that he did it on purpose. I just do not buy that AT. ALL.  

Same. He made it sound like Crawford tried to hurt him on purpose and it doesn't make sense to me. Accidents happen on set no matter how hard people prepare and hope to avoid them. In the grand scheme if things, it was a small cut. I've read quite a few incidents where people were seriously injured or even killed. So this seemed like small fries. Can't speak for the rest of Crawford's behavior, though.

[Unclejosh]

I don't have the ability to post it while at work, but the woman who plays Det. Bailey called out Clayne for his actions today on Twitter.  Saying he had outburts yelling at various cast and directors and saying he hoped the show would be cancelled.  This was in response to his thank you to Hilarie Burton's tweet of support.

[Badsamaritan]

While it does seem crazy to think Crawford would injure DW on purpose, I could see a scenario where CC, as the director, could've disregarded the advice of the FX folks and tried something anyway, and it resulted in injury. So in that sense, DW could feel as if it was purposeful, if CC was told something he wanted could be unsafe but he tried anyway because of his director's 'vision'. If he purposefully put his own ideas ahead of the safety of the folks on set, I might be pretty pissed too. 

[emma675]

Well, I'm out. I can't stand Sean William Scott and all of the rumors and behind the scenes mess killed it for me. What a total disaster, everyone involved is acting like a child. They should have just cancelled the show.

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, cam3150 said:

I don't understand how shrapnel from a special effects explosion gone wrong hitting Damon in the head is Clayne's fault? Yes, it was the episode he directed but I would imagine he was not directly involved in any kind of pyro special effects procedures.  They would have experts for that.  Blaming Clayne for that incident (or trying to imply that Clayne somehow orchestrated the explosion to hit Damon on purpose -- really, Damon????) is just silly and completely childish.

I don't know about the other allegations, and maybe they did happen. Clayne becoming uninsurable would certainly explain all of this and it makes a bit more sense now.  I just have an issue with the explosion /shrapnel itself, and that incident somehow being Clayne's fault, or the implication that he did it on purpose. I just do not buy that AT. ALL.  

 

You can be certain the other allegations did happen, or Crawford wouldn't have become uninsurable and he wouldn't have been fired. Michelle Mitchenor just confirmed those allegations. It seems that she couldn't stomach the hypocrisy.

It isn't the first time that I see Wayans called names like childish and silly because he was injured and has the bad taste to be unhappy about it. I wonder how many of those people who call him those names, were they hurt for lack of safety at their workplace, would have rushed to a lawyer and sued pretty much everyone sitting at any level of responsibility, their boss, the thief, the cook, his wife and her lover ? I'm ready to bet, a whole lot. Wayans was very lucky, because a shrapnel hitting your head can kill you, a shrapnel hitting your eyes can blind you.

Crawford said himself he was responsible for this incident because he was directing, it was his set. From what I read in the Hollywood Reporter, Wayans complained in a tweet that he didn't even receive an apology whereas he was hurt. Which would have been the decent thing to do. And yes, they have experts, but as I and others pointed above, Crawford could have very well ignored their instructions which would make it his fault, actually (no one knows at this point).

14 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

There are a few reasons people are pointing Wayans way.  Clayne, in one of his posts, heavily implied it was Wayans behind the info getting out. I don't think he said his name specifically but as more details came out about some of the incidents, and other actors spoke out while Wayans remained silent, it became pretty clear who he was talking about.

Indeed, and in hindsight I find it pretty manipulative on Crawford's part. But from a simple "he's behind the info getting out" to "he was jealous, he invented everything, he conspired to get Clayne Christ Crawford fired etc.etc." there's a whole world of conspiracy theories that were made up by the fans.

The level of enabling and justifying the actions of a bully is just mind-boggling to me, at this point.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[cam3150]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

It isn't the first time that I see Wayans called names like childish and silly because he was injured and has the bad taste to be unhappy about it.

My issue is not that he is unhappy about it. I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who was happy about getting hit with shrapnel.  I would  even say he is within his rights to file a lawsuit (and I am VERY anit-lawsuit most of the time).    My issues are: 1) That he is blaming Clayne directly for something that he would have been , at best,  very indirectly involved with, 2) That he is implying that Clayne somehow did this on purpose, and 3) The very childish and unprofessional way he is attacking Clayne and a lot of his followers.

 

All I'm saying is that there is a better and more adult / professional way that he could have chosen to make public his side of the situation and make his points.   He's even thrown Warner Bros under the bus which is not smart. Neither actor is coming out looking good in this situation but at least Clayne did handle the last few weeks with some semblance of class. 

 

Damon has since completely deleted his Twitter account, which is even more childish.  If you are going to put out these allegations, at least have the you-know-what to stick by them and to deal with the consequences. That includes the social media mob attacking him, which I am sure is what happened.  That's not right either but Twitter turns most people in to children these days so he had to have expected it. He had already made his account private prior to this.  

 

I wasn't planning to watch S3 anyway, except maybe the first episode to see how they dealt with Riggs' death. But all of this BTS drama is a huge turn off. I have no desire to ever watch it again,and that sadly includes reruns with Clayne.   All I would be able to think about is how much the two leads hate each other.  

[gibasi]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

 

The level of enabling and justifying the actions of a bully is just mind-boggling to me, at this point.

I agree.  Who knew that so many people felt that strongly about Crawford?!

[LeeLeePanda]

37 minutes ago, cam3150 said:

My issue is not that he is unhappy about it. I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who was happy about getting hit with shrapnel.  I would  even say he is within his rights to file a lawsuit (and I am VERY anit-lawsuit most of the time).    My issues are: 1) That he is blaming Clayne directly for something that he would have been , at best,  very indirectly involved with, 2) That he is implying that Clayne somehow did this on purpose, and 3) The very childish and unprofessional way he is attacking Clayne and a lot of his followers.

 

All I'm saying is that there is a better and more adult / professional way that he could have chosen to make public his side of the situation and make his points.   He's even thrown Warner Bros under the bus which is not smart. Neither actor is coming out looking good in this situation but at least Clayne did handle the last few weeks with some semblance of class. 

 

Damon has since completely deleted his Twitter account, which is even more childish.  If you are going to put out these allegations, at least have the you-know-what to stick by them and to deal with the consequences. That includes the social media mob attacking him, which I am sure is what happened.  That's not right either but Twitter turns most people in to children these days so he had to have expected it. He had already made his account private prior to this.  

 

I wasn't planning to watch S3 anyway, except maybe the first episode to see how they dealt with Riggs' death. But all of this BTS drama is a huge turn off. I have no desire to ever watch it again,and that sadly includes reruns with Clayne.   All I would be able to think about is how much the two leads hate each other.  

So, I’m a directing student. One of the biggest thing we are taught is safety. The director sets the tone. They’re are responsible for the safety of their cast and crew. It’s my understanding that this injury happened while Clayne was directing.

 

I don’t know how the accident occured, but any type of injury on set should be treated seriously.  If he caused the accident because of miscommunication, or lack of regard for the safety of others then he absolutely deserves to be called out. And if it was truly an accident then obviously Wayans feels like Clayne did not handle the situation correctly. 

 

No one should ever feel unsafe in their workplace. And if what Wayans and others are saying is true, then Clayne created a hostile work environment. It sucks for the fans, but Clayne is the only person who deserves blame. 

Edited May 15, 2018 by LeeLeePanda

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, cam3150 said:

My issue is not that he is unhappy about it. I imagine you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who was happy about getting hit with shrapnel.  I would  even say he is within his rights to file a lawsuit (and I am VERY anit-lawsuit most of the time).    My issues are: 1) That he is blaming Clayne directly for something that he would have been , at best,  very indirectly involved with, 2) That he is implying that Clayne somehow did this on purpose, and 3) The very childish and unprofessional way he is attacking Clayne and a lot of his followers.

 

All I'm saying is that there is a better and more adult / professional way that he could have chosen to make public his side of the situation and make his points.   He's even thrown Warner Bros under the bus which is not smart. Neither actor is coming out looking good in this situation but at least Clayne did handle the last few weeks with some semblance of class. 

 

Damon has since completely deleted his Twitter account, which is even more childish.  If you are going to put out these allegations, at least have the you-know-what to stick by them and to deal with the consequences. That includes the social media mob attacking him, which I am sure is what happened.  That's not right either but Twitter turns most people in to children these days so he had to have expected it. He had already made his account private prior to this.  

 

I wasn't planning to watch S3 anyway, except maybe the first episode to see how they dealt with Riggs' death. But all of this BTS drama is a huge turn off. I have no desire to ever watch it again,and that sadly includes reruns with Clayne.   All I would be able to think about is how much the two leads hate each other.  

1) Again, Crawford could be directly responsible if he ignored safety rules or didn't care to inform Wayans on how exactly the scene would happen  2) Damon Wayans, in his tweets published in THR, implies exactly that with "directedbycrawford", it's quite a stretch imo to read there that he accused Crawford of deliberate assault 3) Wayans stayed silent until Crawford was fired, didn't defend himself until the show was renewed, whereas he was a victim of vicious attacks and rumors for weeks; but it's childish and unprofessional when he finally answers, as far I as saw, with facts?

It's suspect when he stays silent. It's childish when he answers. It's childish when he makes his account private. It's childish when he deletes his Twitter. Seems to me that he can't win, can he? We don't know if it's Wayans who's at the origin of the BI, by the way. There's just what Crawford implied and comparing his version to what begins to come to light, somehow I won't take his word on it.

Crawford wasn't classy except once he was fired. He issued a non-apology, deflected his responsibility by throwing the showrunners under the bus and by siccing his fans on the "mole" Wayans, was making jokes about his own situation whereas the cast and crew were awaiting their fates.

And let me get this straight. Crawford bullies some people on set. But it's "to be expected" that Wayans has to "deal with the consequences" of Crawford's behavior, including being blamed in his stead and harassed on social media for telling the truth? (If it wasn't the truth, Crawford would still have a job). And if Wayans doesn't accept graciously to be harassed, he doesn't have balls? In what world? I have no words here.

I don't think I'll watch again the first season of Lethal Weapon, or the first S2 episodes that were good, either. But it's because it would make me sick, thinking of the crew members who were verbally and emotionally abused while they filmed those scenes.

Edited May 15, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[DearEvette]

My understanding is that the director on the set, even for  just one episode, is the boss.  It is his/her shoot.  He is answerable to the EPs and the showrunner when it comes to issues of the script or interpreting a scene etc., but for that set, the actors are answerable to him. Also how much authority he has overall depends on how much the showrunner accedes.  It seems like the showrunner isn't very hands on himself, so Crawford probably was given broad range authority over the shoot.

I checked IMDB and this episode of Lethal Weapon is his highest profile directing gig.  He only has 4 other directing credits,the most recent in 2010,  and they look like they were shot on his own home video camera.  I'll wager that the guy simply didn't know how to control a set or a shoot of that complexity.

Beyond the directing, though,if he's punching folks out that is beyond the pale.  No matter you think about Wayans' complaints, violence is never acceptable in the workplace.  Why would anyone want to work with someone who is punching folks out?  All the attention on Wayans seems like a deflection on the real issue which is the fact that Crawford sounds like he had some issues that affected not just Wayans but the entire production.

[WendyCR72]

I really don't care if Crawford is out. It's clear he has issues. (Damon Wayans has made strong points; still, from what I've read about him prior [mainly the disgusting Cosby remarks], he sounds like a handful. NOT saying this to absolve Crawford. But it's clear both men have their less than great sides.) But Mr. Scott should be a Martin Riggs recast. That IS the franchise. To go on without that character is idiotic, IMO.

Actually, with all of this fallout, I don't see how renewing this show is at all worth it. (I know, why should the crew be out of a job? But the entertainment industry is never 50 years with one job and a gold watch. These folks know the risks involved.)

The ratings were marginal, anyway. So I wonder if this vitriol with cause curiosity - or, more likely, cause people to turn away from this altogether.

[AstaCharles]

35 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Beyond the directing, though,if he's punching folks out that is beyond the pale.  No matter you think about Wayans' complaints, violence is never acceptable in the workplace.  Why would anyone want to work with someone who is punching folks out?  All the attention on Wayans seems like a deflection on the real issue which is the fact that Crawford sounds like he had some issues that affected not just Wayans but the entire production.

Agreed. I'm not the biggest fan of Wayans, but I understand his frustration. Did Warner bros release a statement? I was kind of annoyed with the response from Fox yesterday which was basically finger pointing at the WB, " it wasn't our decision.It's WB".

[cam3150]

55 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

2) Damon Wayans, in his tweets published in THR, implies exactly that with "directedbycrawford", it's quite a stretch imo to read there that he accused Crawford of deliberate assault

I was referring to Damon's "second shooter" post, not anything else.  He questioned how he got hit on the left side of his head when the explosion supposedly came from a different place or direction.   I didn't see it first person, since the posts are now deleted, but I was reading an article that was summarizing the situation and the consensus there (and numerous other places) was that he was inferring that somehow Clayne deliberately attacked him somehow.

 

While I do admit to having a bias towards Clayne since I live 10 minutes from his hometown and I actually work with his uncle, it's clear he has issues. It's clear they both do.  Ultimately, I am just sad that a show I really liked with an actor I have supported for a while now has devolved in to such a mess.  More than that, I am sad for everyone involved with the show because this is their livelihood. I don't see how the show will go beyond S3 but, for their sakes, I hope it does well.  

[AstaCharles]

I thought Wayans statements were referring to the way the stunt was poorly set --that an explosive device is on the opposite side of where everything else ( the action) is supposed to be. That's just dangerous.

[dargosmydaddy]

41 minutes ago, cam3150 said:

While I do admit to having a bias towards Clayne since I live 10 minutes from his hometown and I actually work with his uncle, it's clear he has issues. It's clear they both do.  Ultimately, I am just sad that a show I really liked with an actor I have supported for a while now has devolved in to such a mess.  More than that, I am sad for everyone involved with the show because this is their livelihood. I don't see how the show will go beyond S3 but, for their sakes, I hope it does well.  

This. The whole thing seems like a clusterf*ck. Why on earth would TPTB let CC direct an episode if he is volatile, making actresses cry, hitting actors, etc.? 

I started watching for CC, and thought he did a great job as Riggs. I'm not interested in watching without him. Really unfortunate all around. It's like watching a trainwreck.

[Anela]

I started watching, just because I loved the movies. When I found out who the actors were, that was even better. Clayne did a great job in Rectify, and I'd liked Wayans since my teen years. 

[Anela]

This isn't the only show having this sort of issue. I haven't watched NCIS in years, but wondered why Pauley Perette left. 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/15/entertainment/pauley-perrette-ncis/index.html

She left, rather than enduring abuse from someone. Why aren't they uninsurable? 

[Anela]

An anonymous person chiming in, stating most of the cast and crew support Clayne:

[Anela]

https://twitter.com/BTSinHollywood

[AstaCharles]

5 minutes ago, Anela said:

An anonymous person chiming in, stating most of the cast and crew support Clayne:

I'm not putting much stock in that. If you look in the comment section from the first posting of this whole mess from tvline, you will see a comment from a guy who worked on the WB lot and confirmed that Crawford was a crazy dude and a lot of crew people walked off because of him. 

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, AstaCharles said:

Agreed. I'm not the biggest fan of Wayans, but I understand his frustration. Did Warner bros release a statement? I was kind of annoyed with the response from Fox yesterday which was basically finger pointing at the WB, " it wasn't our decision.It's WB".

Yeah, I get it too.

Clayne might have a future in crisis management based on the way he played this.  When the news broke, he made a post in which he admitted to some of the basics of the story but with his "it's only because I care about safety" spin which got a lot of people on his side.  Then he shades the person, without naming names, who "released" the information.  So he has a group of people who were upset and implied where they could send their fury.  And since Damon became the enemy, Crawford was the wronged hero. He's just a guy who cares too much.  He only wants safety. He did therapy and apologized.  Damon's just jealous.

Then he plays casual about all this news and whether or not his job's on the line. But the finale had him with a bullet in his chest.  I suspect he knew what was coming.

I could see why Damon, who had remained silent felt defensive.  Clayne's the actor whose behavior led to him being fired and he's being attacked as the bad guy.  I'd find it hard to be silent as well.

[WendyCR72]

Rather than putting out the fire, these posts seem to throw gasoline on it. This show must make a mint somewhere if Warner Brothers is willing to ignore the chaos.

[Anela]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

Rather than putting out the fire, these posts seem to throw gasoline on it. This show must make a mint somewhere if Warner Brothers is willing to ignore the chaos.

That's what I thought, too, but I can see people on both "sides" wanting to defend their friends, or themselves. One set of tweets referenced earlier, were deleted. By Michelle Mitchenor. 

I can't see Wayans as the one to release rumours that might damage their show. I wonder who it was. I remember supporters of a certain presidential candidate, praising them for keeping themselves in the news, even if was all negative, because the attention was on them. That news of the firing happening just before the finale aired, really pissed me off, because that's what it reminded me of: calculated to get people to tune in, to see his fate, and to talk about it on twitter. Positive or negative, attention is attention. Ugh. 

Also calculated to hurt the actor even more. Although it's garnered him more support than he might have received otherwise. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Anela

[Irlandesa]

My guess is that it was probably someone at WB or FOX.  Saying that an actor's actions were putting renewal in jeopardy and they might recast is some pretty high level information that most actors or crew members likely wouldn't be privy to.

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, Anela said:

That's what I thought, too, but I can see people on both "sides" wanting to defend their friends, or themselves. One set of tweets referenced earlier, were deleted. By Michelle Mitchenor. 

I can't see Wayans as the one to release rumours that might damage their show. I wonder who it was. I remember supporters of a certain presidential candidate, praising them for keeping themselves in the news, even if was all negative, because the attention was on them.

 

Michelle Mitchenor deleted her tweets after she became the new victim of online bullying, receiving answers like this:

Or this one:

And there were many many more, all full of vitriol and hate, in answer to the tweets she deleted. It seems that Crawford and his fans are birds of a feather. And it doesn't seem that he takes the Sarah Drew road, so much for being classy.

It was also an "anonymous" who helped planting the idea that "Damon's people" did it in answer to the first article. I have no love lost for Wayans but he's been in the business for too long, he knows how things work and imo he knows better.

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

My guess is that it was probably someone at WB or FOX.  Saying that an actor's actions were putting renewal in jeopardy and they might recast is some pretty high level information that most actors or crew members likely wouldn't be privy to.

As I said when the story broke, I don't think that WB and less FOX took the initiative, but they let Deadline publish it because they couldn't keep the cat in the bag any longer. I'd look in the direction of the crew, guest actors, and someone close to the show's production, like an EP, to confirm they were in danger of cancellation.

9 hours ago, cam3150 said:

I was referring to Damon's "second shooter" post, not anything else.  He questioned how he got hit on the left side of his head when the explosion supposedly came from a different place or direction.   I didn't see it first person, since the posts are now deleted, but I was reading an article that was summarizing the situation and the consensus there (and numerous other places) was that he was inferring that somehow Clayne deliberately attacked him somehow.

It wasn't how things were presented in THR, where the tweets were published, and is a serious media. Verbatim: "seemingly questioning his on-set safety during the episode directed by Crawford". Nothing more. Now, "the consensus was that he was inferring" = that's how conspiracy theories are made.

I'm sorry that you were disappointed by an actor you've been following for so long. It sucks when it happens. (I used to love Mel Gibson, sigh.)

Edited May 16, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[MissLucas]

And the lack of control of TPTB continues. The conspiracy theories and accusations (untrue and unfair as they may be) will slowly die down once nobody is stoking the fire anymore. It might be upsetting but the situation has been resolved. Crawford is out and his career is at least for the foreseeable future in the dumps,  the show has been renewed for at least one season.  Time to move on even if the solution is far from perfect - perfect left the building a long time ago.

Edited May 16, 2018 by MissLucas

[Sonja]

Jeez, by now there is enough material to make series 3 of Feud about his. I wonder if we'll ever learn what has been going on from people on the set not named Crawford or Wayans. It definitely is textbook 'how not to handle things' for studios, showrunners and actors alike. I just hope that the crew members can find jobs at properly run shows asap, so they can leave this mess and would like to see Keesha Sharp and Kevin Rahm in something watchable in the near future because it would be suprising for LW to survive the next season after this cluster****.

[Anela]

Reading that throwing a bottle was written into the script - but I don't see Lance Henriksen mentioned as appearing on Lethal Weapon at all? Am I missing something?

Ugh, I have to stop paying attention to this. 

[MissLucas]

There's a scene with Riggs throwing a bottle of water at Leo - but that's hardly the incident Wayans mentioned. 

Edited May 17, 2018 by MissLucas

[Rascotes]

This is the part where I check out of the Lethal Weapon experience at least until they start the movie remakes in 2022. 

 

I sincerely don't care whose fault all this drama and chaos is and I have no investment in either actor so this isn't about someone I like being fired.  In my experience changing a primary star like this is almost never done successfully even with a team of talented writers and a crew that believes in the project.  It's complicated and fan reaction is never easy to anticipate so more often than not it ends in failure.  Unfortunately this is happening in the shadow of a second season that really struggled as far as the writing is concerned.  The sheer drop off in episode quality from season 1 to 2 was stunning when you take a step back and really evaluate.

 

Frankly my enthusiasm for this show has been waning all season, long before I heard about any behind the scenes nonsense.  If the cast and crew had been adults I'd have given them the benefit of the doubt and hoped for a better season 3 but seeing all this?  Naw, I'm good.

 

To those of you staying, I hope they clean their act up and make LW amazing again for you.

[dargosmydaddy]

Interesting (and lengthy) article in defense of CC...

http://www.pulsethread.com/site/2018/05/17/hitting-pause-on-game-dev-for-an-interesting-case-study/

[Happy Harpy]

7 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Interesting (and lengthy) article in defense of CC...

http://www.pulsethread.com/site/2018/05/17/hitting-pause-on-game-dev-for-an-interesting-case-study/

I expected a sob story about a difficult childhood or addictions or something, and not even. Same old, same old, "Wayans invented it all" but OMG, the Tinfoil is strong with this one.

The analysis of the WB parking lot? LOLOLOL.  WB took Wayans' word at face value and didn't really investigate before they risked their current bearer of a billion-dollars franchise? LOLOLOLOL.

It should say a lot that some fans are ready to impersonate an actor on Twitter (James Morosini) in order to spread their crazy conspiracy theories.

[dargosmydaddy]

He also fails to note that the tweet of support that supposedly came from the father of the actor who played Ben looks... pretty suspect? (Literally it's the only tweet on the account... did this guy really join Twitter just to support Crawford?... and uses a picture from CC's own Instagram account.)

In a different bit of media, here's Den of Geek's review of the finale, which summed up a lot of what I enjoyed about it. (I do think it was a really strong episode.) It's interesting that the reviewer mentions thinking that season 2 was stronger than the first season, which I know a lot of people on this board vehemently disagreed with. (Personally I thought both seasons had their occasional issues but were enjoyable.)

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/lethal-weapon/273326/lethal-weapon-season-2-episode-22-review-one-day-more

[Happy Harpy]

4 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

He also fails to note that the tweet of support that supposedly came from the father of the actor who played Ben looks... pretty suspect? (Literally it's the only tweet on the account... did this guy really join Twitter just to support Crawford?... and uses a picture from CC's own Instagram account.)

Yep, just like he failed to note that Michelle Mitchenor went on the record about Crawford's behavior, or that no one from the crew officially supported him either ("anonymous" doesn't cut it) etc.

I didn't rage-quit S2, it just fell off my radar because the writing was so weak, and the storylines uninteresting to me. I agree, S1 wasn't perfect, but could be deep and poignant while very funny and light. S2 was a caricature of it imo, Riggs' plot was too gloomy and Murtaugh's was too cartoonish.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[Irlandesa]

What I find interesting about that post is that he takes journalists to task for not investigating this deeper, allegedly because they're missing what he has uncovered, and yet his smoking guns involve fake tweets that he leaves up even though he acknowledged they were fake tweets, no acknowledgement that the other guest starring actor (around for one ep) was a long time friend of Clayne's, and seems to buy into the narrative that Damon is behind this all even though the first incident allegedly had nothing to do with Damon.

8 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

WB took Wayans' word at face value and didn't really investigate before they risked their current bearer of a billion-dollars franchise? LOLOLOLOL.

And this can't be said enough.

56 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Riggs' plot was too gloomy and Murtaugh's was too cartoonish

I can handle cartoonish but the misery porn grew to be too much for me, although I did like the last few episodes of the season.  That's why, even though I thought Crawford was very good, I am open to getting rid of that.

[Happy Harpy]

15 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I can handle cartoonish but the misery porn grew to be too much for me, although I did like the last few episodes of the season.  That's why, even though I thought Crawford was very good, I am open to getting rid of that.

I agree. Moreover, imo the supporting characters from Riggs' arc were only worthy of a two-parter, and overstayed their welcome/took too much space, so I won't regret them. My main issue was the discrepancy between gloomy and cartoonish, and imo the latter was a consequence of the former. I don't know how much the BTS issues weighed upon what was onscreen, but if they didn't the show needs new writers as much as a new co-lead.

[crowsworks]

I only followed CC from Rectify so I'm out. Can't stand the new guy.

[ChelseaNH]

I poked my nose into the controversy because I started wondering what was up with Crawford.  I was surprised by the initial reports and wondered about the details.  Several google searches later, there's not a lot of clarity.  Mostly just verbatim repeating what Crawford and Wayans posted -- no value add.  So that was pointless.

I took an interest in the first season of the show because Crawford had appeared on Leverage.  That was a well-run, collaborative show that put out high-quality productions on short timelines and budgets.  I don't see them putting up with a lot of nonsense.  Apparently, they didn't have a problem with Crawford because they had him back.  Action sequences were often handling by the second unit, so if Crawford was in the habit of abusing lower-ranking crew, he'd have had ample opportunity.  Of course, he's friends with Christian Kane, but Kane had a great reputation with the production (they hired him again for The Librarians), so I don't see him enabling an abusive pal to get work at the expense of his cast and crew.

The thing that stands out for me now is -- where are the details of his misbehavior?  Crawford has been replaced, so anyone who suffered at his hands would presumably have nothing to lose in speaking up.  If people were creating and posting stickers about him being an emotional terrorist, surely there have to be some stories, so where are they?  Surely the #metoo movement hasn't lost that much momentum.

[Happy Harpy]

On 5/20/2018 at 11:11 PM, Irlandesa said:

And this can't be said enough.

Obviously :)

[Irlandesa]

49 minutes ago, ChelseaNH said:

The thing that stands out for me now is -- where are the details of his misbehavior?  Crawford has been replaced, so anyone who suffered at his hands would presumably have nothing to lose in speaking up. 

We aren't necessarily going to get details. The WB and HR aren't likely going to release the details.  It's one of the hardest things with a co-worker is fired.  Everyone wants to know why and yet it rarely is shared.  The person Crawford paid likely signed an NDA.  And people have a lot to lose in speaking up.  Wayans spoke up and is largely attacked on social media for being jealous, a lying liar who lies....etc.  Wayans has enough clout to weather that, although he left social media, but for a lower level person, it's probably not worth it.  Heck, even for an upper level person, it's probably not worth it, especially now that he's gone.

[ChelseaNH]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

Wayans spoke up and is largely attacked on social media for being jealous, a lying liar who lies....etc.

Does this mean that people who spoke up on Crawford's behalf were not attacked on social media as liars?

If Crawford were uninsurable, the studio would have an irreproachable reason for replacing him.  Seems to me they would be better off sharing that much, at least.

Edited May 27, 2018 by ChelseaNH

[Irlandesa]

57 minutes ago, ChelseaNH said:

Does this mean that people who spoke up on Crawford's behalf were not attacked on social media as liars?

If Crawford were uninsurable, the studio would have an irreproachable reason for replacing him.  Seems to me they would be better off sharing that much, at least.

Most of the people who are sharing their experiences with Clayne are sharing their experiences with Clayne.  They don't have to be branded liars to believe people had other, worse experiences with him.   So were they accused of being liars? Maybe. I didn't see it but maybe. 

I don't know why a company would get specific about why they fired one of their lead actors.  Firing him makes a pretty big statement. 

[dargosmydaddy]

I haven't followed most of the Twitter wars, but it would seem that a lot of fans of the Riggs character/ Crawford are the ones attacking those who speak out against him. I would imagine no one finds it necessary to attack those who tweet in support of him, as A) they are just sharing their experiences, as Irlandsea said, and B) those on the other sides (CC detractors or fans of Wayans) are already the "winners" here since CC has been fired. Meanwhile, Crawford/ Riggs fans are mourning the end of the show they loved, and are looking for validation that CC wasn't at fault/ the firing was unjust.

As for the company making a statement-- it would have been nice if they had, just to help put the conspiracy theories to rest. Maybe there are legal reasons not to? I agree, if Crawford's behavior was as outrageous as Wayans claims, an official statement would certainly help TPTB look better. 

I wonder if ratings tank next year and it's quickly cancelled, if more people will talk then. It'll be interesting to see if/ when/ where Crawford works next, too.

[MissLucas]

My take on the whole disaster: Crawford must be a very volatile personality. One moment sweet and supportive and the next moment flying off the handle. There's no other way to explain some of the supporting statements and the statements pointing out his dark side. Of course that's all conjecture. What I do know is that he's a very good actor and that I enjoyed his take on Riggs immensely. So I hope that he manages to overcome this crisis (and its causes) so that we can see him again.

[DearEvette]

18 hours ago, ChelseaNH said:

I took an interest in the first season of the show because Crawford had appeared on Leverage.  That was a well-run, collaborative show that put out high-quality productions on short timelines and budgets.  I don't see them putting up with a lot of nonsense.  Apparently, they didn't have a problem with Crawford because they had him back.  Action sequences were often handling by the second unit, so if Crawford was in the habit of abusing lower-ranking crew, he'd have had ample opportunity.  Of course, he's friends with Christian Kane, but Kane had a great reputation with the production (they hired him again for The Librarians), so I don't see him enabling an abusive pal to get work at the expense of his cast and crew.

The thing that stands out for me now is -- where are the details of his misbehavior?  Crawford has been replaced, so anyone who suffered at his hands would presumably have nothing to lose in speaking up.  If people were creating and posting stickers about him being an emotional terrorist, surely there have to be some stories, so where are they?  Surely the #metoo movement hasn't lost that much momentum.

Leverage ran for five years.  Crawford was a guest actor in two episodes.  How he behaved on that show may have no correlation to how he behaved on the a show where he was not only the lead actor but also the director in charge for the episode that seems to have precipitated everything.  People can act nice as a guest in someone else's home and be a big asshole in their own.

I also don't think people not speaking up is some sort of vindication for him.  Even in the age of #MeToo, Hollywood is still a company town and people might still be afraid of not getting work if they are seen to speak out about Hollywood talent.  Also because of the way Hollywood seems very forgiving of enfant terrible white guys (ironically Mel Gibson comes to mind) it is not impossible to believe that Crawford may get work again in a high profile show where some of these people may need to work on again.   I mean, look at the clusterfuck that was the Arrested Development interview last week.  Jeffrey Tambor was fired from Transparent amidst damning allegations of abuse and sexual misconduct.  He was still hired back by Netflix to work on the newest season of  Arrested Development.  And we find out that he was very abusive to Jessica Walter on set in an earlier season and yet her male co-stars fell all over themselves to defend Tambor.  And this just happened last week.  We would have never known about that without that interview because up until that moment Walter had remained silent and the male co-stars were willing to look the other way.

Edited May 27, 2018 by DearEvette

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Leverage ran for five years.  Crawford was a guest actor in two episodes.  How he behaved on that show may have no correlation to how he behaved on the a show where he was not only the lead actor but also the director in charge for the episode that seems to have precipitated everything.  People can act nice as a guest in someone else's home and be a big asshole in their own.

I also don't think people not speaking up is some sort of vindication for him.  Even in the age of #MeToo, Hollywood is still a company town and people might still be afraid of not getting work if they are seen to speak out about Hollywood talent.  Also because of the way Hollywood seems very forgiving of enfant terrible white guys (ironically Mel Gibson comes to mind) it is not impossible to believe that Crawford may not get work again in a high profile show where some of these people may need to work on again.   I mean, look at the clusterfuck that was the Arrested Development interview last week.  Jeffrey Tambor was fired from Transparent amidst damning allegations of abuse and sexual misconduct.  He was still hired back by Netflix to work on the newest season of  Arrested Development.  And we find out that he was very abusive to Jessica Walter on set in an earlier season and yet her male co-stars fell all over themselves to defend Tambor.  And this just happened last week.  We would have never known about that without that interview because up until that moment Walter had remained silent and the male co-stars were willing to look the other way.

 

I couldn't agree more. In Hollywood, when you mention a problem you are the problem.  You're considered a "whistleblower" in the most negative way.

When you see someone like Jessica Walter who has been in the business since the fifties, afraid to lose future jobs because she admitted she was verbally abused, as well as the enabling and pure cowardice of her male castmates ready to accept everything as long as they get the show going on and the money coming in, you realize how it truly works there.

In LW's case, Wayans and to a lesser extent, Michelle Mitchenor acknowledged publicly the issue. No one else needs to take a stand. The problem was dealt with, and the last thing WB needs right now is more negative publicity. I doubt they'd let the show make headlines again because of a group of tinfoil hats on Twitter.

Although I suspect that Crawford has zero chance to work for WB in the foreseeable future, he might find a job again because he's a white guy (Gibson comes to mind, indeed). Sadly, if he doesn't it won't be because he might bully the crew, but because he's a liability in money-making. Ironically, he'd better pray for the new LW version to work out, it will make studio execs more forgiving; otherwise he'll be know -deservedly- as a golden goose killer.

There are many talented actors who were blacklisted because they were bullied and harassed and those people deserve to find another job. Giving yet another position of power to a bully, and one who seems quite unrepentant? Not something I personally wish for.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[ForumWarVeteran]

While I don't necessarily think it's out of the question that Wayans may not be the jolliest elf in the North Pole, I still find the idea that DW is spearheading some kind of nefarious conspiracy to  get poor, sweet, innocent Clayne Crawford fired for no reason other than he doesn’t like his adorable face extremely hard to swallow. The said part, as Happy Harpy points out, CC will probably be fine. I mean they're already talking about comebacks for the likes of Louie CK and Matt Lauer for cripes sakes.

Edited May 28, 2018 by ForumWarVeteran

[ChelseaNH]

2 hours ago, ForumWarVeteran said:

The said part, as Happy Harpy points out, CC will probably be fine.

So you're assuming he's insurable?