S02.E07: Shiva

[spiderpig]

3 hours ago, Irritable said:

The fact that Mr. Green and I both fell hard asleep about halfway through the season finale tells me everything I need to know about this terrible show.  We are done and won't be looking back, but I'm very sorry that this opportunity to tell the beginning of the story in an interesting way was completely wasted.  A good idea was put into the wrong hands, and the viewers paid the price by losing so many hours of their lives hoping it would get better.

The best thing about this show is the snark on this board.

[merroni]

All that wine gone to waste on these idiots. 

[spiderpig]

Just now, merroni said:

All that wine gone to waste on these idiots. 

Just when I began to care about something on this show, it's gone.  I really liked that house and winery.

[NorthstarATL]

2 hours ago, placate said:

See this is what I'm talking about.  The dogs that they eat on TWD are part of this pack with one eyed wonder leading it up.  There's a narrator, I'd like Morgan Freeman and it's basically Meerkat Manor 2.0 with dogs and zombies.

The Barking Dead?

[ottoDbusdriver]

On Talking Dead, it was confirmed during the 'In Memoriam' section that those were indeed Ghosts of Daniel's past that he was seeing in the wine cellar.

And they didn't name Daniel in the 'In Memoriam' outright, so he could still be alive.

[loki567]

I tap out. This show is just... bad. 

[JackONeill]

I heard something on TD last night that confirms something I suspected. If I'm incorrect, please let me know (nicely - it's Monday after all.)

Rueben Blades said that the writers have backgrounds for the characters. What I wasn't clear on but what I picked up is that the writers don't share that with the actors. What Rueben said is that he developed his own backstory for his character. 

As most actors would tell you, it helps to know how you got to this spot and who you are. With that info, it allows you to better inform and let your character act in a more natural and logical way.

but these writers either don't share, don't know or make it up as they go along. You see some of it on lots of shows inc TWD.

[ghoulina]

As with all episodes of this show, this one was dumb and confusing. 

We already knew Chris had gone crazy, because in one episode he all of a sudden wanted his step-mom and step-sister dead. But now he's so fucking crazy that he's running away into the Mexican wilderness, using small children as hostages, and trying to stab his father. So NOT excited for the adventures of those two going forward. 

But now apparently Daniel and Nick have lost it as well. Of course Daniel had his demons, but he's largely been the most level headed on the show. Now he's hearing voices and seeing dead people (not walkers) and trying to take them all down in one big, fiery inferno. Alrighty then. 

And Nick, the only other one I semi-liked, is some sort of zombie-whisperer now? He just wants to cover himself in buckets of blood and hang out with his new friends, okay, Mom? SO just leave him alone and stop harshing his vibe. No, seriously, maybe Nick likes walking amongst the dead because it gives him some sort of thrill? Like the drugs used to? 

The problem is this show just makes things so unclear, because either they don't know or they just don't care. And, frankly, I don't care either. 

[oakville]

2 hours ago, spiderpig said:

Just when I began to care about something on this show, it's gone.  I really liked that house and winery.

I loved that compound. They had walls, plenty of food & electricity. . The wine could be used for trade. They also had some loyal employees who could protect the compound. This was a great place to live in the ZA.

[bc1795]

So Nick doesn't fear the walking dead.  Then, I'm sorry, he shouldn't be on he show, because that runs contrary to the entire concept. 

[spiderpig]

5 minutes ago, oakville said:

I loved that compound. They had walls, plenty of food & electricity. . The wine could be used for trade. They also had some loyal employees who could protect the compound. This was a great place to live in the ZA.

^^This. Further evidence that this bunch of survivors is Too Stupid To Live. Title previously held by Kim Bauer on 24.

Edited May 23, 2016 by spiderpig

[Rock knocker]

48 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

 

We already knew Chris had gone crazy, because in one episode he all of a sudden wanted his step-mom and step-sister dead. But now he's so fucking crazy that he's running away into the Mexican wilderness, using small children as hostages, and trying to stab his father.

Watching this show all season, I don't think any of that means a character is crazy.  In fact, trying to kill Mad, Trav and Al might be signs of sanity in a mad mad world.

[Ohwell]

When Travis and Maddie were in bed almost getting it on before they were interrupted, the evil part of me was thinking that he'd get more action grabbing one of the female zombies. 

[ghoulina]

6 hours ago, Lii said:

 

Who the hell goes out traipsing around the fields in a hacienda in Mexico in just their socks? It's not like he couldn't take thirty seconds to put shoes on, seriously. 

 

So dumb!

 

Also, did anyone else have a hard time believing that Travis, a teacher from LA, didn't speak any Spanish? I took two years in high school and I would have been able to marginally communicate with that man. I kept yelling "hijo!" at the screen. 

50 minutes ago, bc1795 said:

 

So Nick doesn't fear the walking dead.  Then, I'm sorry, he shouldn't be on he show, because that runs contrary to the entire concept. 

 

Not one character on this show has ever given off a believable amount of Fear. The entire show is contrary to the concept. 

[Ohwell]

11 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Also, did anyone else have a hard time believing that Travis, a teacher from LA, didn't speak any Spanish? I took two years in high school and I would have been able to marginally communicate with that man. I kept yelling "hijo!" at the screen. 

That part had me shouting at the tv screen.  No way wouldn't he know some rudimentary Spanish.

[diebartdie]

I watched the episode pretty late last night and frankly I was pretty deep in my bong so I chalked my confusion up to the thc but I come here and read comments and.......so the compound really did burn up after Daniel poured a little gasoline on a concrete floor of a brick building? I mean I get that he finally snapped and in his grief was having hallucinations, I get that, it happens, Ive experienced it myself (not to that extreme!!!) A brief psychotic episode, ok fine, I get that. Hell, maybe Daniel was suffering from full blown schizophrenia and had been off his meds long enough the hallucinations / delusions came back full bore? I dont know but whatever, there was enough build up in the story up to this point to support him going bonkers but his little fire trick? UGH! Unless he spent 30 minutes splashing gasoline all over the rest of the compound, there isnt any way that fire would have just instantly burned the place down. I hated that so much.

Not as much as I hated Celia just waltzing into the walker pen! I mean SERIOUSLY, what kind of perverse zombie lover would you have to be to do something that utterly moronic? I literally laughed and then just chalked my laughter up to all that weed I was smoking....but this morning I read comments here and nope, that REALLY DID HAPPEN! So my pot if good but not THAT good, glad I know that now lol.

Super glad Travis left on walkabout with Chris (although I think pretty soon Chris is just going to cut Travis' head off for the lulz). Baffled by Nick, seriously. Dont get the point of Alicia. Dont understand why the people at the compound, people who were PAID by Thomas Abagail, people who KNEW Celia was merely hired help JUST LIKE THEM would just obey her like she's some sort of mind controlling wizard but worst of all, why didnt Strand stand up for himself.

As another poster here said, if I continue with this show I will be pity watching it at best.

[spiderpig]

3 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Also, did anyone else have a hard time believing that Travis, a teacher from LA, didn't speak any Spanish? I took two years in high school and I would have been able to marginally communicate with that man. I kept yelling "hijo!" at the screen. 

Not one character on this show has ever given off a believable amount of Fear. The entire show is contrary to the concept. 

Anyone living in California has to have at least a rudimentary exposure to Spanish, or you wouldn't be able to read a roadsign.  Or a menu. I couldn't buy that scene either.  And the shoe bit..........(?)

[riverheightsnancy]

3 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

That part had me shouting at the tv screen.  No way wouldn't he know some rudimentary Spanish.

Yeah, I said that as well. Especially being in LA county. I used to live in Northern Maine, and you pick up French words and sayings just be being there and so close to Canada (where I was). 

[spiderpig]

I have to mention this here, since TWD is between seasons, but today (5/23) is Melissa McBride's (Carol) birthday. She's my fave character.

Any question of who would win if she was pitted against Maddie?

Edited May 23, 2016 by spiderpig

[RustbeltWriter]

How could this be any sort of finale if so many questions remain? This is just crappy, ambiguous storytelling. Damn it, show Celia and Daniel dead if they are dead. Show how the fire spread so quickly. Show what is happening so an emotional response is elicited from the audience.

[Ocean Chick]

First they kill off Liza, my favorite character.  Now Daniel is most likely dead - one of the few interesting characters, who's also played by someone who KNOWS how to act.  If they kill off Strand then I'm done.  I WANT the rest of them to die, and die slowly and painfully.  I want Strand to rule what's left of the world.

Such a painfully bad episode.  So Travis FINALLY decides that maybe his son needs a parent?  After how many years?  It's probably a year too late, Travis.  Chris has gone InShane.  And yes - I live in NORTHERN California, and I could have spoken enough Spanish to hold a conversation with that man.  Travis - too stupid to live.

Maddie is still feeling the old Botox I guess - her face never moves.  Not even when her beloved son decides he loves the walkers more than he loves her or his sister.  No tears.  No begging.  Ta ta, Nicholas!  You used to be interesting, but you drank Cecilia's koolaid/posole.  Now you're just whackadoodle. 

Now poor Strand with stuck with emotionless Maddie, brainless Alicia, and mute Ofelia.  Lucky him!  Should be fun on the old high seas.

If I bother to watch after the hiatus, it'll be to hate watch.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Ocean Chick

[Primetimer]

As if the apocalypse wasn't guilt-inducing enough, the mid-season finale ponders what we owe the non-living.

View the full article

[oakville]

First they kill off Liza, my favorite character.  Now Daniel is most likely dead - one of the few interesting characters, who's also played by someone who KNOWS how to act.  If they kill off Strand then I'm done.  I WANT the rest of them to die, and die slowly and painfully.  I want Strand to rule what's left of the world.

Such a painfully bad episode.  So Travis FINALLY decides that maybe his son needs a parent?  After how many years?  It's probably a year too late, Travis.  Christ has gone InShane.  And yes - I live in NORTHERN California, and I could have spoken enough Spanish to hold a conversation with that man.  Travis - too stupid to live.

Maddie is still feeling the old Botox I guess - her face never moves.  Not even when her beloved son decides he loves the walkers more than he loves her or his sister.  No tears.  No begging.  Ta ta, Nicholas!  You used to be interesting, but you drank Cecilia's koolaid/posole.  Now you're just whackadoodle. 

Now poor Strand with stuck with emotionless Maddie, brainless Alicia, and mute Ofelia.  Lucky him!  Should be fun on the old high seas.

If I bother to watch after the hiatus, it'll be to hate watch.

Agreed. The show runners should realize that Maddie can't show any facial expression. They should turn her into a Walker. Travis doesn't seem to care about her anyway. He wants to be with his psycho son , Chris. The show has so much potential given that it is the beginning of the apocalypse, but it is being wasted. They have to bring back Tobias & Alex.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Rueben Blades said that the writers have backgrounds for the characters. What I wasn't clear on but what I picked up is that the writers don't share that with the actors. What Rueben said is that he developed his own backstory for his character. 

As most actors would tell you, it helps to know how you got to this spot and who you are. With that info, it allows you to better inform and let your character act in a more natural and logical way.

but these writers either don't share, don't know or make it up as they go along. You see some of it on lots of shows inc TWD.

Alycia Debnam-Carey did say on her TWD a couple of weeks ago that she believed Kim Dickens has been told something about her character that the writers have not shared with the rest of the cast.

Daniel's general backstory was revealed quite early on the show. I think Blades just means he came up with specific incidents of people he tortured/killed.

[TattleTeeny]

13 hours ago, oakville said:

Agreed. Celia must have put some drugs into the food. Chris went nuts. Nick went nuts. Daniel is hallucinating. Travis is wandering around with Chris.

Seriously! I started to think it must be me--and I wasn't drinking or anything! Everyone was out of their marbles!

Also, it was really choppy. I mean, I could put together what was going on but there were a few places where I had to think about it, and thought I might have missed a "two hours before" note or something. And does Nick shower off the zombie goo only to just put more on--over a clean shirt, no less--a short time later?! Are water and clothing not resources that people might want to conserve? And where is he getting the goo if they are keeping the zombies "alive"?

Edited May 23, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[ghoulina]

11 minutes ago, oakville said:

Agreed. The show runners should realize that Maddie can't show any facial expression. They should turn her into a Walker. Travis doesn't seem to care about her anyway. He wants to be with his psycho son , Chris. The show has so much potential given that it is the beginning of the apocalypse, but it is being wasted.

The thing is, having to choose between a partner who is likely right and a child who is behaving very "wrong" could be a REALLY interesting storyline. But, as usual, the writers of this show make it nothing but annoying and boring. I don't care about any of these people. They seem to have nothing invested in each other, so I'm certainly not going to be invested in their struggles. 

[rab01]

Until this episode, I could at least grant that the writers were keeping the characters consistent but Daniel's break was way too sudden. Showing him hearing voices a couple of episodes ago is not enough to presage the carnage he wreaked this episode (leaving aside the impossibility of how that fire spread). Travis staying with Chris makes sense (he hates Maddy anyway) but Chris running away? what the hell? People doing stuff for plot reasons eliminates the only interesting part of the show - especially when everything they do continues to be objectively stupid and morally reprehensible.

This may be an unpopular opinion but I wasn't bothered by the authority Celia seemed to have at the estate. I find it easy to believe that she was the senior employee there and had a hand in hiring a lot of the others, and had maybe even worked with some of their parents (despite their casting choice, the character had to be in her mid-60s at least).  It's like the upstairs/downstairs thing they do on British period dramas where the butler and head cook rule the other servants with an iron fist. More importantly, it's the ZA, why shouldn't the employees take over the place and put her in charge? Maybe they agreed with her about their family members who turned.

As for the Ship of Fools, if you don't like how the people living there are treating the dead, just fucking leave.  You don't have to kill Celia on your way out the door. Yeah, Madison was doing it to "protect" her son from the dread danger of another mother figure talking to him but if she had thought for 10 seconds, she would have realized that as soon as Celia went missing, she wouldn't be able to avoid the questions forever and they would have been kicked out or killed anyway.

[Jel]

So many questions for me this epi:  

Was that zombie Nick trotted out meant to be Thomas? If so, why? I thought Strand shot him in the head. Did I miss something?

Daniel has PTSD with psychosis -- okay, I get that. But Nick going looney toons as well? Maybe Celia did drug them. Is she dead? We did see the zombies feasting on some fresh meat, was that her? If so, why are those zombies so civilized, holding chunks of Celia meat in their hands instead of hitting the floor and dining in place like they usually do?

If eating people alive, tearing the flesh from their bodies isn't Celia's idea of a monster, what is? How long has she been nuts?

[TattleTeeny]

No, it was the guy who had the coin that mean-ass Daniel tossed overboard.

ETA: Luis! I forgot his name for a minute.

Edited May 23, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[riverheightsnancy]

"Alycia Debnam-Carey did say on her TWD a couple of weeks ago that she believed Kim Dickens has been told something about her character that the writers have not shared with the rest of the cast."

Great, just great.  So, maybe she's an expressionless robot from a planet on the outskirts of our solar system? Ahhh, that solves all of our questions about Madison.  On a more serious note, one of the things I have been wondering about is her original marriage and Nick and Alicia. How did she meet Travis, how did the marriage breakup? Was Nick always a problem child?  These are all things that could've added depth to the story, but of course they're going to focus on other silly side plots and making sure the actresses hair and makeup looks very good for a zombie apocalypse and being in Mexico where it is nice and hot. When I was watching yesterday, I made particular note of the way Madison and Alicia's hair looked in the first season and they definitely made major changes to Alicia to make her look more beautiful and added highlights to the lower bottom of her hair. I don't know why I hyperfixate on hair, but when you're doing a show like this, I feel like the more grungy and "normal" a woman looks, the more realistic it would be for a zombie apocalypse. The fact that Alicia's hairstyle made a major change and her makeup also changed right before her romance story line just bugs the crap out of me. She was a beautiful girl before and she looked fine as the girl next door with her hair in a ponytail with slight waves, but the romance story line had a major change in her hair where they now parted in the middle as opposed to the side. It was just much too over-the-top and not appropriate for this particular show or situation.

Edited May 23, 2016 by riverheightsnancy

[meep.meep]

Luis, who was Celia's actual son.  As opposed to Thomas who she called her son, but who wasn't really her son.

I thought it very fitting that if she didn't think the walkers should be taken down, that she end up with them.  And they were eating pigs.  There was  a scene with people bringing pigs up to the chute earlier.

[rab01]

1 minute ago, riverheightsnancy said:

"Alycia Debnam-Carey did say on her TWD a couple of weeks ago that she believed Kim Dickens has been told something about her character that the writers have not shared with the rest of the cast."

Great, just great.  So, maybe she's an expressionless robot from a planet on the outskirts of our solar system? Ahhh, that solves all of our questions about Madison.  On a more serious note, one of the things I have been wondering about is her original marriage and Nick and Alicia. How did she meet Travis, how did the marriage breakup? Was Nick always a problem child?  These are all things that could've added depth to the story, ...  I don't know why I hyperfixate on hair, but when you're doing a show like this, I feel like the more grungy and "normal" a woman looks, the more realistic it would be for a zombie apocalypse. ...

I think they told us in the Monopoly playing scene last season that Nick and Alicia's dad died. (They talked around him never coming back from what I think may have been a car accident though I'm probably misremembering somewhat.) 

As for Alicia's hair, I actually find her hair less distracting this season than in Season 1 when she was scrubbing up Nick's vomit with all her hair flowing down almost to the floor. There is no way a normal human wouldn't have tied it out of the way before scrubbing a floor.  That said, I don't begrudge the show Alicia's hair because it is more expressive than Kim Dickens' entire face so they have to take their opportunities.

[JackONeill]

1 hour ago, Black Knight said:

Alycia Debnam-Carey did say on her TWD a couple of weeks ago that she believed Kim Dickens has been told something about her character that the writers have not shared with the rest of the cast.

Daniel's general backstory was revealed quite early on the show. I think Blades just means he came up with specific incidents of people he tortured/killed.

I agree with what you've said, but there have been other (and smaller) incidences when I've heard things that suggest (if not outright say) that the actors don't know the direction of the story, who's going to live or die, and, quite conceivably, much about their character's background. Yeah, Blades knew his dark past because it was one of the first personality secrets to be revealed last season. I think Nick being an addict was known when the actor was hired; that Maddie was a counselor and Travis a teacher was known. The basics were probably known. I'm sure each actor was given the 10-words or less this is who you are biography. But then everything else came to light for the actors around the same time as for the audience. That was evidenced by the Kim Dickens story. Yeah, she was told, but I go the impression that she was ONLY told because it was something truly major. Like, maybe, you're about to become a widow, and hence closer to being the true star of the show, but you won't get paid anymore money.

Edited May 23, 2016 by JackONeill

[Muffyn]

Daniel goes full on BSC.  And that's why you don't throw away owl coins that represent death cults!

On the Chris thing, I can almost see a teenager running away.  Almost.  I mean, zombie apocalypse and all, but he's a moody teen.  When Madison was being attacked last week and he didn't help her, in his mind "he froze."  His step sister thought he was trying to kill Madison.  With his normally flat affect, it is hard to distinguish anything from what was shown.  Then he tries to talk to her and she thinks he is threatening her.  Chris is no master communicator (of course we could probably put his entire dialog over a season and a half on a large index card, so hard to tell). In his mind he was just trying to tell her he froze; she thinks he will hurt her if she says something.  Then Madison believes Alicia's interpretation and goes to Travis. So now Chris sees Alicia, Madison and possibly Travis as against him; they think he is disturbed and dangerous and thus will not listen to his side of the story.  Capping it off, he tries to go to talk to Alicia to find her napping alongside Madison.  They don't wake when he enters the room and he says Alicia's name.  He sees the knife, something they are not supposed to have but it is the zombie apocalypse.  Chris, having at least a little sense, wouldn't mind having a weapon in case he runs into a zombie, like you do, and he picks up the knife.  In a Three's company-esque plot contrivance, the shot goes off that wakes Madison and Alicia just as Chris picks up the knife (note: he may also have been looking at it to figure out where they may have gotten it).  This furthers their idea that Chris is dangerous - he was looming with a knife.  Looming!  So Chris is now a teen who thinks his family does not trust him.  He runs away.  Have I sufficiently fanwanked to this point?

Then it goes off the rails. Travis runs after Chris, neglecting to put shoes on first. (Note, when Daniel and Ofelia are leaving their room, he specifically mentions to her that she should put on her shoes - Chekov's shoes!).  Travis hears noises in the small house and enters.  Finds Chris is holding a small child hostage.  That's where I cannot find an explanation.  Unless Chris thinks Travis is there to kill him, why would he take a child hostage?  Chris seems like a fairly introverted young guy who has been through a lot of trauma in a short period.  Mom dead; dad offed her (for good reason but still).  The dead reanimating.  He kills the guy in the plane.  He is stuck on a boat with fools and excessive hair care products.  He doesn't stop the "pirates" from boarding their ship.  He kills one for being a loudmouth jackass.  Chris has some serious shit to work out.  But unless he sees Travis as a threat, why wouldn't his character see his father searching for him as  a sign that he doesn't hate him? 

I have now put more thought into this than I think the writers did. 

Edited May 23, 2016 by Muffyn

[Kenz]

There are so many great comments on this forum! I'm glad I'm not the only one who think this show stinks. They would be wise to kill off everyone but Strand and have him find his boat, run into Alex out in the ocean, combine forces, and find some interesting and charismatic characters to join them. Most of all, though, this show needs to find some decent new writers.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Kenz

[SoSueMe]

This is the first thing I've ever seen Kim Dickens in. I am so not impressed. Has she been better in other stuff?

[Kenz]

1 minute ago, SoSueMe said:

This is the first thing I've ever seen Kim Dickens in. I am so not impressed. Has she been better in other stuff?

She was in Gone Girl, the movie, as a tough, no nonsense detective, and I thought she was ok in that role. She is totally miscast in this Maddie role, and I don't know if it's because she has such a limited range, or maybe Botox has really frozen her face. You would think that she could eek out a tear or two, or maybe cry out in anguish even though she can't seem to change her expression!

[rlangmit]

25 minutes ago, Muffyn said:

I have now put more thought into this than I think the writers did. 

Muffyn, your interpretation of last week's episode is exactly how I interpreted it.  Of course, it was vague because the show eschews dialogue in favor of wordless emoting by actors who can't act.  But I was hoping that Chris would explain his side of the story this week.  Instead, he went BSC for no apparent reason.

I really, really hope Celia was drugging people.  Of course, Daniel was already hearing voices weeks ago--but he wasn't this crazy, Nick seemed to be adjusting well to the apocalypse, and Chris's struggles seemed logically motivated. 

Also, I was surprised how little Chris was actually mentioned in this episode.  You'd think this would be big news: Chris threatened his step-family with a knife and then ran off into the zombie apocalypse.  Madison mentioned the situation straight away in order to get Travis started on his search, but otherwise no one really seemed to express an opinion on the matter.  This plot would have been better off being its own standalone episode/arc without all the other crazies to distract from it.  In an alternate universe, the gang gets to the house and Chris's unstable, dangerous behavior gets them in trouble with Celia before everything goes all Herschel's barn redux (if it even has to).

[SoSueMe]

1 hour ago, Kenz said:

She was in Gone Girl, the movie, as a tough, no nonsense detective, and I thought she was ok in that role. She is totally miscast in this Maddie role, and I don't know if it's because she has such a limited range, or maybe Botox has really frozen her face. You would think that she could eek out a tear or two, or maybe cry out in anguish even though she can't seem to change her expression!

Thanks. Okay, this is funny cause I saw Gone Girl and didn't like it much and I don't remember her at all, so she didn't make much of an impression on me,  I guess.

[diebartdie]

1 hour ago, Muffyn said:

 

On the Chris thing, <SNIP> he tries to go to talk to Alicia to find her napping [They were SLEEPING, it was the middle of thhe night when all the non-creeper, non-stalker, non-kill-you-in-your-sleep people are asleep] alongside Madison.  They don't wake when he enters the room and he says Alicia's name.  He sees the knife, something they are not supposed to have but it is the zombie apocalypse.  Chris, having at least a little sense, wouldn't mind having a weapon in case he runs into a zombie, like you do, and he picks up the knife.  In a Three's company-esque plot contrivance, the shot goes off that wakes Madison and Alicia just as Chris picks up the knife (note: he may also have been looking at it to figure out where they may have gotten it).  This furthers their idea that Chris is dangerous - he was looming with a knife.  Looming!  So Chris is now a teen who thinks his family does not trust him.  He runs away.  Have I sufficiently fanwanked to this point?

 

You can see it as a "Three's Company" style farce, or you can see it more from Alicia's point of view, see Chris as someone so torqued out they really are ready to kill and in fact, THEY ALREADY HAVE, see that way, his threatening a small child as well as his own father makes sense. I see it from Alicia's POV, Chris is murderous and needs to be seperated form the main group. Travis did the right thing by keeping him away, Chris might still murder Travis but at least this way, Travis' is minimizing the impact on Maddie and her spawn.

[Rock knocker]

5 hours ago, ghoulina said:

 

Also, did anyone else have a hard time believing that Travis, a teacher from LA, didn't speak any Spanish?

 

Travis's ex-wife was named Lisa Ortiz.  But maybe she doesn't speak Spanish either, nor does any of her family.

 

That's how things work.

[Lii]

15 minutes ago, Rock knocker said:

Travis's ex-wife was named Lisa Ortiz.  But maybe she doesn't speak Spanish either, nor does any of her family.

 

That's how things work.

Not here in CA, it doesn't. Not unless you sequester yourself inside your home, like, from BIRTH. Even then, half the junk mail you get is written in both languages.

[CrashTextDummie]

Alicia: "The lady graciously offered to give us shelter, but won't keep the man who betrayed her trust and put a bullet in her son's head. Even though he's not really our friend, seeing as he tried to abandon us multiple times, can't we do something about that?"

Maddison: "Oh sure honey, let me go murder that bitch."

Comparing this group of characters to CDB is grossly unfair to CDB. The latter brought misfortune upon every place they visited mostly because of their ineptitude and being unprepared for the world they found themselves inhabiting. These people are straight up homicidal maniacs. Should have seen it coming when they attempted to abduct the young children of the farmer people a couple episodes back. Good grief.

The writers try to touch on some interesting themes, but it's all so rushed that none of it makes sense. I thought last week's episode was incoherent but here I legitimately found myself having trouble following what was going on. Practically every character behaved in a way that made me question whether I had missed an episode or two. The only thing I found mildly entertaining was Nick buying into Celia's "the people are the monsters" mantra. I felt that the writers were trying to craft some deep allegory, but no, Nick is right in a very literal sense: The protagonists of this show are actual monsters.

Edited May 23, 2016 by CrashTextDummie

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, JackONeill said:

I agree with what you've said, but there have been other (and smaller) incidences when I've heard things that suggest (if not outright say) that the actors don't know the direction of the story, who's going to live or die, and, quite conceivably, much about their character's background.

Yes, but there's nothing wrong with the first part of that, which is entirely normal for TV: Since the characters don't know what's going to happen to them, the actors shouldn't necessarily be in the know either. It can be hard not to play scenes with an inappropriate amount of foreshadowing, or to jump ahead to what your character's going to become after several more storylines. All actors really need is to be given enough background/direction to build a character. They actually tend not to like to be given too much in the way of specifics because they want to have a strong hand in creating their characters and in performing them, as opposed to feeling like robots with no creativity. And that's a feedback cycle - the writers see what the actors are doing and tailor their writing. That's something I've always found fascinating about TV, that it allows for that type of thing in a way that closed mediums do not. There are some potential downsides to that open-ended kind of working method, yes, but there are also potential downsides to the other way of things, too (mainly, not being able to get out of things that don't work and not being able to take advantage of things that surprisingly do).

Chris needs to be told to look at the flowers. It's not so much that I think he's irredeemably lost a la Lizzie as just that I find him unenjoyable (I enjoyed Lizzie). I was hoping that Travis would be killed off in this episode as often happens to the moral compasses of the WD universe, because I also find him unenjoyable here (I've liked the actor in other things). Maybe by the season finale!

[Rock knocker]

54 minutes ago, Lii said:

Not here in CA, it doesn't. Not unless you sequester yourself inside your home, like, from BIRTH. Even then, half the junk mail you get is written in both languages.

Facetiousness is lost

[oakLeaf]

Quote

zombie sharknado

You need to watch Z Nation.

[spiderpig]

8 hours ago, bc1795 said:

So Nick doesn't fear the walking dead.  Then, I'm sorry, he shouldn't be on he show, because that runs contrary to the entire concept. 

Careful - they'll hear you. Next AMC series in development: Everyone Fear the Walking Dead Except Nick

[rab01]

7 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Careful - they'll hear you. Next AMC series in development: Everyone Fear the Walking Dead Except Nick

Alt title -- Who's Afraid Of The Walking Dead?

[spiderpig]

4 hours ago, riverheightsnancy said:

"Alycia Debnam-Carey did say on her TWD a couple of weeks ago that she believed Kim Dickens has been told something about her character that the writers have not shared with the rest of the cast."

Great, just great.  So, maybe she's an expressionless robot from a planet on the outskirts of our solar system? Ahhh, that solves all of our questions about Madison.  On a more serious note, one of the things I have been wondering about is her original marriage and Nick and Alicia. How did she meet Travis, how did the marriage breakup? Was Nick always a problem child?  These are all things that could've added depth to the story, but of course they're going to focus on other silly side plots and making sure the actresses hair and makeup looks very good for a zombie apocalypse and being in Mexico where it is nice and hot. When I was watching yesterday, I made particular note of the way Madison and Alicia's hair looked in the first season and they definitely made major changes to Alicia to make her look more beautiful and added highlights to the lower bottom of her hair. I don't know why I hyperfixate on hair, but when you're doing a show like this, I feel like the more grungy and "normal" a woman looks, the more realistic it would be for a zombie apocalypse. The fact that Alicia's hairstyle made a major change and her makeup also changed right before her romance story line just bugs the crap out of me. She was a beautiful girl before and she looked fine as the girl next door with her hair in a ponytail with slight waves, but the romance story line had a major change in her hair where they now parted in the middle as opposed to the side. It was just much too over-the-top and not appropriate for this particular show or situation.

One thing I particularly like about TWD is that women (whole cast, actually) look grungy, tired, beaten-up - as if they are in a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE. 

But then our heroes in FTWD are from LA. (I'm in NorCal  so I can say what I want.)

[Lii]

4 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

One thing I particularly like about TWD is that women (whole cast, actually) look grungy, tired, beaten-up - as if they are in a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE. 

But then our heroes in FTWD are from LA. (I'm in NorCal  so I can say what I want.)

If the next half-season involves them spending any amount of time in that truck and away from the boat/house (i.e. away from a source of electricity to power their hairdryers and curling irons) and their hair is still on point like this, I will seriously flip some mental tables. Then again, maybe they'll work out a way to power their haircare appliances with the truck's AC adapter. Priorities.