S02.E22: Chapter Forty-Four

EVS · May 18, 2016

6 hours ago, stet said:

So no one noticed Charo in the church as, indeed, a bridesmaid? (Would that make her Rogelio's second-best friend?)

I was just coming here to post this. I remember that Rogelio wanted her at the wedding, but when I saw her as a bridesmaid, I thought I had forgotten part of the discussion.

I'm guessing that Aneska will have an epileptic seizure, which will give away her identity. I hope it happens early in the season so Petra doesn't miss too much time with her babies now that she is finally bonding with them.

Please show, do not give Raphael any more surprise children.

Tara Ariano · May 18, 2016

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

In Her Season 2 Finale, Jane The Virgin Looks Forward To A Wedding (And The Stuff That Follows One)

Jane Gloriana Villanueva prepares to make her fateful walk down the aisle. And because it's a telenovela, her path cannot be smooth.

MaryM47 · May 18, 2016

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Americans drink beverages very cold.

When this American visits family in Ireland and the UK, I've found that you have to specifically ask for ice in your soda in restaurants, and bottles of soda there have a little blurb on them that reads "best served cold." No wonder the Puritans left ;)

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I knew the second Michael went to get ice he shouldn't do it. I said "no, don't leave the room!"

Yes! I was thinking: you're a character in the last 5 minutes of the season finale of a telenovela! Don't. Leave. The. Room!!

scrb · May 18, 2016

Wedding seemed too Americanized. That might as well have been the wedding for Jane Smith, not Jane Villanueva.

Do telenovelas have this constantly changing cast of villains always popping into the lives of otherwise normal people? Or is this show trying to avoid being too soapy so they shoehorn in the criminal conspiracies?

Maybe they'll kill off Michael just to always keep Jane a virgin. Pretty cruel joke if that's the case, unless the writers give her a lifetime supply of vibrators or something.

Zanne · May 18, 2016

8 hours ago, stet said:

So no one noticed Charo in the church as, indeed, a bridesmaid? (Would that make her Rogelio's second-best friend?)

I thought that Rogelio actually said Charo was his second-best friend in the last episode she was in. Michael being his first-best friend, of course.

Bouffe · May 18, 2016

9 minutes ago, Zanne said:

I thought that Rogelio actually said Charo was his second-best friend in the last episode she was in. Michael being his first-best friend, of course.

And Bruno Mars being his third. LOL

Irlandesa · May 18, 2016

5 hours ago, cailinoBAC said:

But I do worry about something I read in an earlier article, where it was mentioned that they already knew how the whole series was going to end, I think that the ending had been planned since the beginning? This gives me 'How I Met Your Mother' fears, where the creators are so attached to their ending that they stick to it, even when the show has developed in a different direction and it no longer fits.

She claims to have a basic outline of where she'd like the story to go. I don't think it's the only way to write a show but I think it's fine to have things planned out. It all comes down to execution. That's where HIMYM failed. Even though I wasn't a fan of the couple at the end, it was a valid idea for an ending. Where HIMYM went wrong is that they knew where they wanted to end things and knew when their show was going to end but still spent their whole final season writing away from that ending instead of truly laying the foundation for it to make it satisfying. They built to Jane and Michael, they can build away from them too. Whatever they do, it shouldn't feel tacked on.

3 hours ago, Gin and Tonic said:

Luisa ditches Rose. C'mon writers. This woman killed her father. You've mined it for its humor. Now it's just creepy.

And this is another reason I don't think Michael is dead. Reading an interview from JU in the media thread and

Spoiler

she talks about wanting to see Luisa and Rose in couples counseling to see if they can get over Rose killing her father.

So maybe she's joking. Or maybe she's telling the truth. But I think she has fallen in love with the Rose character a little too much and if she wants to keep the Luisa/Rose angle going, it won't work if she has killed Michael. She could get away with killing Emilio because the audience wasn't as connected to Emilio.

17 hours ago, Gin and Tonic said:

I've decided my favorite part of the finale is that Jane didn't change her last name. and it was treated like no big deal - they didn't even have an in-show conversation about it beforehand!

Isn't this cultural? I think in many Spanish speaking countries a woman keeps her name. Or keeps it and adds her husbands too.

13 hours ago, Bouffe said:

I can't even speculate on what may happen next season. If Michael is dead, I don't see how the show can bring Rafael and Jane back together without making it feel like he's a second choice. If Michael survives, how are they going to separate Michael and Jane and not make her be a giant asshole about the whole thing?

I think "first" and "second" are reserved for races. Life doesn't always work like that. things change. People change. Jane isn't even 25 yet.

natyxg · May 18, 2016

1 hour ago, scrb said:

Do telenovelas have this constantly changing cast of villains always popping into the lives of otherwise normal people? Or is this show trying to avoid being too soapy so they shoehorn in the criminal conspiracies?

They're more likely to have some villains that stay throughout. In the original Juana La Virgen Carlota's (Petra) father was the villain. Killed people and everything, and was all around shady. He was always after Mauricio's (Rafael) magazine (for some reason I no longer remember). But the storytelling surrounding him wasn't as over the top. Jane the virgin in general is really, really over the top, in a fun way.

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Isn't this cultural? I think in many Spanish speaking countries a woman keeps her name. Or keeps it and adds her husbands too.

As far as I know, yep.

Edited May 18, 2016 by natyxg

Nanrad · May 18, 2016

22 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I think "first" and "second" are reserved for races. Life doesn't always work like that. things change. People change. Jane isn't even 25 yet.

People do change, but I do believe that, if Michael truly IS dead and Jane/Rafael are endgame, Rafael would feel like a second choice, especially considering the history that came along with it. Rafael isn't some random friend or guy she happened to meet after Michael, both fought for her affections and her heart with Michael. I could potentially see Rafael feeling like a second choice because i could see Jane involuntarily making that comparison. And this happens in real life as well even if it's not framed as second choice, but living in the dead person's shadow. If Michael is truly dead, I do think it will make Rafael feel a certain way about their relationship, if they are end game, especially because Jane is/was the one for him, where as Michael is/was the one for her.

Hell, most of this applies if the person is living. Former relationships can be very complicated.

BonnieD · May 18, 2016

I'm betting that direct to the chest bullet magically doesn't kill Michael. The showrunners have to know that no matter how much they intended or wanted to push Jane + Rafe forever as the end game, most fans don't buy it. The chemistry isn't there and it is between her and Michael. If they do actually kill him off, I'm going to be pretty pissed. Maybe not enough to stop watching the show because Rogelio!, but I will be very disappointed in the writers.

petalfrog · May 18, 2016

Is there any chance the show will submit Yael Grobglas for an Emmy? Her turn as Petra has always been amazing but seeing what she's done with Aneska has been spectacular. I'd fully buy they were played by two separate actresses as every aspect is so different and fully realized. And Aneska has been played as a comedic character to Petra's tight one.

DianeDobbler · May 18, 2016

The show runner has said they will pick up where they left off in S3 (no time jump, IOW). I fully expect Michael to be "dead" (telenova dead). Then as the season progresses we learn he isn't, and we pick up a ton of flashbacks that we missed. It makes no sense at all for Michael to choose his wedding night to call Susana/Rose out, to do it alone when he knows how lethal she, and her stooges, can be when cornered. What was the plan? He'd arrest her then, or tell her he was going to turn her in, and then return to his honeymoon? There is a set up here, or else Michael died a really stupid death. But my money is the audience, for at least some of S3, believing Michael died, and us believing JANE believes he died as well.

The show runner seems really sold on Luisa/Rose as a love story. I'm sure she's tongue in cheek, but still. I'm not the Bridget Regan fan some seem to be. I enjoy Luisa a lot, but I have no investment in her and Rose. Did we ever meet Luisa's ex-wife?

Reading above, struck me that Michael going to get ice is almost a play on words "going to get iced."

Hope next season is fun. Between Michael being "dead", Petra being petrified, Xo pregnant with a baby she doesn't want no matter who the father may be, and what to me is a dreary Luisa/Rose alliance, wonder how they'll pull it off.

BonnieD, I agree with what you've said - however, there have been show runners who believe they can force an audience on board to a conclusion they want by eliminating options. It happens in all kinds of ways. On Mad Men, it seemed obvious to me that when the audience resisted Megan, the show trashed the other women's looks. Peggy turned into a matronly-looking drone, Betty got fat, Joan got stuck in a frowsy wig and anachronistic clothes, and Megan got a million-dollar wardrobe with everybody saying how great she is. IOW, if the show is or was committed from the start to Rafael/Jane, and married Michael/Jane just as a way to prolong story, taking Michael OFF the show might, in their reasoning, cause the audience to focus on and invest in Rafael/Jane, without Michael as a distraction. IMO that never ever works. There is a reason actors or characters don't click. Taking away the competition or distraction doesn't help. Liking Michael never stopped anyone from loving Rogelio, and I don't think it would stop anyone from liking a truly charming and empathetic Rafael. This one is a dud. This show is fun, and he's not fun. If Petra, a tightly controlled, emotionally guarded woman who finds it difficult to connect with ANYONE can be funny and entertaining despite her many trials and tribulation, rejections and disappointments, there's no excuse for Rafael. Except inadequate acting.

OTOH - they have really expanded Yael Grobglas's storyline, which suggests they ARE being more organic. One of the keys was when Petra rejected Rafael, despite loving him, because she didn't want to be second choice. If she were merely a spoiler character, she would be always after Rafael. They've also given her this double role, which she's knocking out of the park. That role is a pseudo-triangle with Rafael, with poor Petra unable to say anything as Anezka (and Magda) manipulate him, and, possibly, ruin "Petra's" life by making decisions Petra wouldn't make. That seems like a strange story to launch in the S2 finale if the S3 is going to be Jane/Rafael. Furthermore, without Michael, we don't have a point of entry to the crime drama part of the show.

Edited May 18, 2016 by DianeDobbler

elle · May 18, 2016

On 5/17/2016 at 10:21 AM, maraleia said:

Help me out here- when did Susanna show up? Was it after Rose left? If so that should've been the warning bell that she wasn't who she said she was.

Susanna was introduced in "Chapter Twenty-Six" or Jane's 25th birthday episode. "Rose" is lasted listed in "Chapter Twenty-Four" in which Jane get Mateo back.

Susanna seemed to be not working for Michael's best interests, which included him going "off the book" in his police work, so at first she looked like she may be Internal Affairs. I don't recall ever thinking she might be "Rose". I did think something was off when she was talking with Michael about what was on the chip (before/after photos of Rose's clients), but not this classic soap/telenovella reveal we had.

Strangely, I feel sorry for Luisa. She finally seemed to have her life together and have a non-villain love interest only to have that all go with the mask.

Thog · May 18, 2016

It's funny - I had been sure that the bodybuilder Luisa was dating had to be Rose with a new face, but it never occurred to me that was the case with Susanna. If the point of the body builder was to throw us off track, then well done, show.

natyxg · May 18, 2016

6 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

The show runner has said they will pick up where they left off in S3 (no time jump, IOW). I fully expect Michael to be "dead" (telenova dead). Then as the season progresses we learn he isn't, and we pick up a ton of flashbacks that we missed. It makes no sense at all for Michael to choose his wedding night to call Susana/Rose out, to do it alone when he knows how lethal she, and her stooges, can be when cornered. What was the plan? He'd arrest her then, or tell her he was going to turn her in, and then return to his honeymoon? There is a set up here, or else Michael died a really stupid death. But my money is the audience, for at least some of S3, believing Michael died, and us believing JANE believes he died as well.

But there was no time for any plan. That's not how they set up the scene at all. The "roll" thing was supposed to be the moment when it all clicked for Michael and he acted impulsively, which is something we HAVE seen before from him. And he didn't think she was Rose, he thought she was a mole.

Besides, why would Michael plan to fake his death on his wedding night? Even more so after waiting 5 years to finally have sex with Jane.

femmefan1946 · May 19, 2016

Please show, do not give Raphael any more surprise children.

Or DO!! It would be kind of fun if 'infertile' Raphael impregnates one woman after another as a running gag.

Wedding seemed too Americanized. That might as well have been the wedding for Jane Smith, not Jane Villanueva.

But Jane is an American surely? She is quite happy with her heritage, but she is second generation in the USA. I'm not even sure if she speaks Spanish (obviously she understands it). My daughter doesn't speak, or even really understand my first language.

It makes no sense at all for Michael to choose his wedding night to call Susana/Rose out, to do it alone when he knows how lethal she, and her stooges, can be when cornered. What was the plan?

There wasn't one. He had no idea she wasn't who she said she was until that moment and Susana/Rose shot him before he could do anything but realize that, not even who she might really be or might work for.

Irlandesa · May 19, 2016

13 hours ago, petalfrog said:

Is there any chance the show will submit Yael Grobglas for an Emmy? Her turn as Petra has always been amazing but seeing what she's done with Aneska has been spectacular.

Shows typically submit all their stars in one category or another since there's no limit. So yes, she will be submitted. The long shot is in actually getting a nomination.

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Did we ever meet Luisa's ex-wife?

No, we only saw Luisa catch her cheating on her. We never saw the actual woman.

11 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

.IOW, if the show is or was committed from the start to Rafael/Jane, and married Michael/Jane just as a way to prolong story, taking Michael OFF the show might, in their reasoning, cause the audience to focus on and invest in Rafael/Jane, without Michael as a distraction. IMO that never ever works. Liking Michael never stopped anyone from loving Rogelio, and I don't think it would stop anyone from liking a truly charming and empathetic Rafael.

A few days ago Jennie was quoted in a pre-finale article mentioning how split the audience still is between the two couples with maybe even a slight edge to those who still want her with Rafael. I bring that up not to argue who is more popular but to say that even though some won't be swayed even if Michael goes bye-bye, just as some J/R fans haven't been swayed by the full court press this show has done with J/M over the past ten episodes, much of the audience is in it for Jane and is Jane flexible. They can tell their story. Some are going to love it. Some are going to hate it. But it will take more than who Jane chooses to make people want to put it in the HIMYM Hall of Fame.

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Furthermore, without Michael, we don't have a point of entry to the crime drama part of the show.

I'm not saying they're going to kill Michael but Michael hasn't really been the point of entry to the crime drama part of the show. It has been the Marbella crew.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Irlandesa

beadgirl · May 19, 2016

On 5/18/2016 at 0:35 AM, Nanrad said:

People do change, but I do believe that, if Michael truly IS dead and Jane/Rafael are endgame, Rafael would feel like a second choice, especially considering the history that came along with it. Rafael isn't some random friend or guy she happened to meet after Michael, both fought for her affections and her heart with Michael. I could potentially see Rafael feeling like a second choice because i could see Jane involuntarily making that comparison. And this happens in real life as well even if it's not framed as second choice, but living in the dead person's shadow. If Michael is truly dead, I do think it will make Rafael feel a certain way about their relationship, if they are end game, especially because Jane is/was the one for him, where as Michael is/was the one for her.

Hell, most of this applies if the person is living. Former relationships can be very complicated.

I think (assuming Michael is dead) that will be the season three conflict. Jane will mourn Michael, and eventually be drawn to Rafael again (I hope there is a time jump at some point), and Rafael will have a hard time not comparing himself and not doubting Jane's love. I think it would be a mistake to try to continue the love triangle, but obviously they will want more conflict and drama and that will be a way to generate it. The ending, and their "happy ending," will come at the end of the show right around the time Rafael comes to terms with Jane's love for him and for Michael.

Mind you, that's not what I want. I adored Michael and their relationship, and I was Team Michael all the way. But like some of you, if the endgame is Jane and Rafael (so bland!) I'd rather Michael just be dead. Any other outcome (Michael having amnesia, Michael being in a coma, Jane deciding she no longer wants to be married to him) would be a real turn-off for me. Plus, I am highly amused by the idea that Jane is both a mother and a widow and still a virgin.

It is quite common for Latinas to keep their names upon marriage (I did), or to hyphenate/use both. Although the latter can get out of control, given that it is also common for Latinos to use both their mother's and their father's last name. Also, I didn't find her wedding too Americanized -- heck, mine was even more "American" (with some notable examples) and I was born in P.R.

beadgirl · May 19, 2016

My God that's a lot of duplicative posts.