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S05.E04: 6,741

ElectricBoogaloo

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Bort

Bort

2 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I wince now when I watch Shahi slam Acker onto that table, because I know it broke Acker's tailbone!

Wow, seriously? Ow. No wonder Root was pretty much standing for the rest of the episode (or not, it was probably scripted). 

I do remember (at Comicon, I think?) Sarah mentioning her and Amy shooting a scene where they got all beaten and bruised but that it was NOT a fight scene. 

StarBrand

StarBrand

I'm just curious now as to how (and when) she escapes for real, because we know that's going to happen, and when she rejoins the team. Sarah said on her twitter she doesn't appear in tonight's episode, but does for sure the following week-and I believe that one's called "A More Perfect Union". Makes sense.

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Yep! Acker mentioned breaking her tailbone during an IGN interview at NYCC, and there were a couple of tweets last night (hers and Sarah Shahi's) that confirmed this was the scene that did it! Shahi slammed her onto that table hard.

I can just imagine how the directer instructed them to do that scene;

"OK, Sarah, you're going to passionalty slam Amy into that table, OK?"

*slam*. Amy says "ouch!"

SS says "oops, sorry. You did tell me to slam her down, right?"

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shura

shura

6 hours ago, Bobbin said:

I may be wrong, often am, but I believe Shaw's sim experiences are being erased each time. Otherwise, she'd soon realize they were all simulations. It's the simulations that get tweaked each time, not Shaw. Still, there must be some residual effect, especially after blowing her brains out 6,741 times.

That's how I read it too. Samaritan is looking for real-world things that will need to get tweaked and set up once Shaw is allowed to escape for real. It needs the real, authentic Shaw to react then to this set up world just the way she was reacting to the simulation(s) that produced the winning outcome for Samaritan. Well, maybe there is a bit of both - Shaw is being programmed a little to react to the "favorable" world better.

Hanahope

Hanahope

(edited)

Yeah, there were a lot of red flags that this wasn't real.  The fact that the entire episode was from Shaw's pov and she either saw or heard everything.  That Root had her own place.  That once the chip was taken out, she kept having the flashes.  That Greer would show up to anything himself. And its interesting that in 6,741 attempts, Fusco never showed up.  So Shaw still has great mental control.

I was curious at Greer saying they had all the time in the world.  Do they really?

Edited by Hanahope
Dagny

Dagny

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I watched the episode with the closed captions on. At one point, per the closed captioning, Finch spoke to Bear in German (instead of Danish). So that sent up a red flag for me that something was fishy...

That and Shaw spoke Farsi, not Arabic. :o

One thing that always bugs me from the "POV" is if it really was per pov shown on the monitor, then the feed would be more like a first person shooter image than what was shown on the monitor. <must stop over analyzing>

fastiller

fastiller

My clue that it wasn't real? Root grabbed Shaw's head right near where the chip had been removed from and Shaw didn't grimace from the pain.  Even a badass mofo like Shaw would to some sort of stoic flinching at that!

Anyway, I know that this show isn't normally one of those that's spoken of when people speak about the Emmys, but Shahi has to submit this for her "For Your Consideration" Emmy nomination.  She was awesome in this.  She's very good, bordering on awesome, most of the time, but in this ep, she was super-duper awesome.

CoderLady

CoderLady

(edited)

I didn't catch on until Shaw shot Reese. No way could that be happening at this point in the real world. And I saw the closed-captioning identify the language Finch was speaking to Bear as German but I thought it was just the captioner taking a wild-ass guess and failing. Hmm -- would Samaritan and its minions know Bear speaks Dutch?

Edited by CoderLady
Sulador

Sulador

(edited)
17 hours ago, MinnieM said:

I watched the episode with the closed captions on. At one point, per the closed captioning, Finch spoke to Bear in German (instead of Danish). So that sent up a red flag for me that something was fishy...

I noticed that too. But I thought Bear was always spoken to in either Dutch or Belgian (not Danish), he being a Belgian Malinois? I always watch with the CC on, because Jim Caviezel is the king mutterer of all time and I can't make out a word he says without help.

Edited by Sulador
ybrik

ybrik

Have rewatched the episode a couple of times to really get a good idea of the episode. I really liked it more each time I saw it.

Yeah there were obvious signs that this was a simulation. Most of which others have already said.

I do wonder if this episode will play into how the rest of the season goes. I think there may come a point where Shaw will accidently or maybe under Samaritan control hurt/injure Root.

bros402

bros402

3 hours ago, CoderLady said:

I didn't catch on until Shaw shot Reese. No way could that be happening at this point in the real world. And I saw the closed-captioning identify the language Finch was speaking to Bear as German but I thought it was just the captioner taking a wild-ass guess and failing. Hmm -- would Samaritan and its minions know Bear speaks Dutch?

I think one of the operatives might've known that Bear responded to a command in a Germanic language - but didn't know the exact language.

1 hour ago, Sulador said:

I noticed that too. But I thought Bear was always spoken to in either Dutch or Belgian (not Danish), he being a Belgian Malinois? I always watch with the CC on, because Jim Caviezel is the king mutterer of all time and I can't make out a word he says without help.

Bear takes commands in Dutch.

Cranberry

Cranberry

I just rewatched this and I did indeed enjoy it more when I wasn't waiting for the other shoe to drop. I thought it was interesting that Samaritan's and Shaw's versions of her friends (especially Root) were pulling her both ways in her mind -- Root asked her early on if she wanted to pay The Machine a visit, but for most of the episode she was trying to keep Shaw from going anywhere ("Stay here with me," "Come back to bed," "Don't move a muscle", etc.). Near the end of the episode, Root started pressuring her more about going to The Machine ("We've gotta get back to The Machine," "I'll watch our tail; you lead the way"), but it was only when Shaw led Root to the playground -- her former safe place, with her former safe space person -- and Root was still trying to drag her away ("We need to get back to Harold and The Machine," "We'll work through this, but first I need to get you to safety") that Shaw gave up fighting the simulation and put a bullet in her own brain. It was very well done.

I also think it was important for the writers to include this episode now even though it didn't advance the plot. It allowed us to see inside Shaw's head, to clarify feelings about the team (and Root especially) that she wouldn't normally verbalize because Shaw is so closed off. It allowed us to understand just how psychologically horrible her time away has been, which I don't think would come across if we got only a few flashbacks. And now if she escapes in the same way, we all won't be scoffing because it was too easy or because she shouldn't have had that much mobility after being in bed for nine months or because the boat was way too convenient -- we'll know that her treatments were a success for Samaritan and that they're allowing her to escape to set the plan in motion. It won't seem unbelievable to us if she shows up and starts trying to murder her friends.

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Camera One

Camera One

It is the final season, and that's when you can get away with a "it's all a dream" episode.  I appreciate the episode more after reading the posts here, and I liked the idea that it was a simulation.  I normally can't stand plotlines where one of the former heroes is now secretly evil, so I was pretty much ready for this "scenario" to end where it ultimately did.  During the sex scene, I was thinking it might be a dream, but nothing happened, so the next time I thought that was when Reese got shot.  I must admit I felt angry for a moment when Shaw shot herself... "don't tell me they brought her back just for this," I thought.  

I was happy that Greer was finally dead, but no luck on that count.

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HawaiiTVGuy

HawaiiTVGuy

(edited)
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Yeah, there were a lot of red flags that this wasn't real.  The fact that the entire episode was from Shaw's pov and she either saw or heard everything.  That Root had her own place.  That once the chip was taken out, she kept having the flashes.  That Greer would show up to anything himself. And its interesting that in 6,741 attempts, Fusco never showed up.  So Shaw still has great mental control.

I was curious at Greer saying they had all the time in the world.  Do they really?

I think that the players in the simulation are all Samaritan, Fusco is not identified as being part of Team Machine yet, so there was no reason to loop him into the simulation.  Notice that the primary interactions that mattered (trying to find out the Machine's location) all centered around Shaw's interaction with Team Machine that Samaritan knew.  I felt that was a good bit of continuity by the writers not to accidentally write in a role for Fusco in this episode, and then it would be obvious to Samaritan who to go after.

Greer has all the reason to believe they have all the time in the world.  They are pretty much operating without any oversight and impunity.  We have no idea what deal was struck up by Samaritan through its child avatar at the White House, and they already have carte blanche on all security and access feeds in the United States.  In their minds, the only threat is Machine, who is severely compromised, so I am sure Greer is feeling quite cocky.

Yeah, I figured something was wrong pretty early on, and I think it became clearer as they never went to the subway and they called the apartment "Root's" apartment.

Again, I think this goes back to Samaritan's big weakness is under-estimating human loyalties and emotions.  Shaw is able to continually give herself up in order to save Root, something that Samaritan's logic based electronic reasoning cannot compute.  Machine however was "taught" to "feel" real emotions by Finch, so I think that is the upper hand.  

Edited by HawaiiTVGuy
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

On 5/17/2016 at 10:07 AM, aquarian1 said:

I understand that.  I didn't like it though.  There are other ways they could have done it.  Like I said, it was a fun watch, but that's about it.

The bolded part? It will come as NO surprise to folks here...that's how I felt about the episode in its entirety. What did I learn from it (even though as soon as Shaw "escaped" the first time, I knew it wasn't real) was that that sack of shit old pruney, moustache a twirling villain, ARSEHOLE, Greer just won't fucking DIE. I want him gone!gone!gone! He bores me. His non-stop talking...bores me. And yes, Reese and Finch, were both...off, which convinced me this wasn't really happening. And the icing on the cake was when Shaw shot and killed Reese. Riiiight.  The next episode TOTALLY made up for it though.

fastiller

fastiller

(edited)

I don't know if this'll work - I've never embedded a Tweet before (be gentle with me).

It didn't work.  There's a Twitter account I follow, called Existential Comics (comics, all about philosophy/philosophers), which yesterday Tweeted the following:

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Odds of us living in a simulation: 99% Odds of us not knowing the odds of us living in a simulation: 100%

I thought it was appropriate to Shaw and this episode.

Edited by fastiller
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