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S08.E22: Crossfire

WendyCR72

By WendyCR72
in Castle [V]

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threebluestars
threebluestars

I really think the network fucked the show over by not letting them know in time whether they got a pick up or not. That was so obviously a tacked on end scene to tie up a cliffhanger shot when they t

KaveDweller
KaveDweller

But they shot the alternate ending in case they were cancelled, so why not make the alternate ending make more sense? Why not cut out the whole Caleb shooting them part?

Lee4U
Lee4U

Can't believe anyone on their staff that loksat crap was interesting in the least - I still don't know what it was all about but mostly because I zoned out every time they talked about it since it fir

threebluestars

threebluestars

I really think the network fucked the show over by not letting them know in time whether they got a pick up or not. That was so obviously a tacked on end scene to tie up a cliffhanger shot when they thought they'd have another season. I mean, I guess yay they tied it up all neat, but man did that ever feel like a thoughtless ending.

I really think networks should be required to let shows know about a pick up early enough that they can tie up their storylines and shoot an ending that makes fucking sense.

Hated what the writers turned the last few seasons into. I feel cheated as a viewer.

  • Love 18
AntiBeeSpray

AntiBeeSpray

1 minute ago, arieswriting said:

I really think the network fucked the show over by not letting them know in time whether they got a pick up or not. That was so obviously a tacked on end scene to tie up a cliffhanger shot when they thought they'd have another season. I mean, I guess yay they tied it up all neat, but man did that ever feel like a thoughtless ending.

I really think networks should be required to let shows know about a pick up early enough that they can tie up their storylines and shoot an ending that makes fucking sense.

Hated what the writers turned the last few seasons into. I feel cheated as a viewer.

Yep. But to be fair, I was surprised by it. 

Word on that.

I do too. It sucks.

KaveDweller

KaveDweller

4 minutes ago, arieswriting said:

I really think the network fucked the show over by not letting them know in time whether they got a pick up or not. That was so obviously a tacked on end scene to tie up a cliffhanger shot when they thought they'd have another season. I mean, I guess yay they tied it up all neat, but man did that ever feel like a thoughtless ending.

I really think networks should be required to let shows know about a pick up early enough that they can tie up their storylines and shoot an ending that makes fucking sense.

Hated what the writers turned the last few seasons into. I feel cheated as a viewer.

But they shot the alternate ending in case they were cancelled, so why not make the alternate ending make more sense? Why not cut out the whole Caleb shooting them part?

  • Love 15
Lee4U

Lee4U

Can't believe anyone on their staff that loksat crap was interesting in the least - I still don't know what it was all about but mostly because I zoned out every time they talked about it since it first came up eons ago - stupid waste of a finale of a series.  

NF does look good - on a superficial note - his face didn't have the puffy look he has had for awhile which I assumed was some health issue.  

She bugged me as always with her flat affect showing about as much emotion when seeing him alive as I do when I see my whites in my laundry come out really white.  But, to me, she has always been like that and I don't find it anything new with her - just find her a very dull performer.  Sorry to all SK fans - just my own opinion.

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vanarnd1

vanarnd1

Just now, McManda said:

Wait ... what?

How do they both go from shot and bleeding out with a dead Caleb to having three kids seven years later? Was that supposed to be a "what could have been"? Where were Martha and Alexis?

Why do I not understand?

The season 7 finale is definitely where it ends for me.

My guess is that them bleeding out was meant to be a cliffhanger if there was a season 9 where Castle lived and Beckett died. They likely filmed that short future scene in case the show was canceled so they could have a happy ending instead. It was very abrupt likely because they didn't want to film a long scene and wanted to hedge their bets. It came off very rushed to say the least

  • Love 7
scenicbyway

scenicbyway

3 minutes ago, arieswriting said:

I really think the network fucked the show over by not letting them know in time whether they got a pick up or not. That was so obviously a tacked on end scene to tie up a cliffhanger shot when they thought they'd have another season. I mean, I guess yay they tied it up all neat, but man did that ever feel like a thoughtless ending.

I really think networks should be required to let shows know about a pick up early enough that they can tie up their storylines and shoot an ending that makes fucking sense.

Hated what the writers turned the last few seasons into. I feel cheated as a viewer.

I don't know, the season has been awful so I don't blame the network for cancelling the show.  I think the show was finished when the show runners couldn't present a compelling story for a Beckettless season 9.  The ending was incredibly tacked on but atleast it's over.

  • Love 5
McManda

McManda

(edited)
Quote

My guess is that them bleeding out was meant to be a cliffhanger if there was a season 9 where Castle lived and Beckett died. They likely filmed that short future scene in case the show was canceled so they could have a happy ending instead. It was very abrupt likely because they didn't want to film a long scene and wanted to hedge their bets. It came off very rushed to say the least

Probably, but I still don't get it.

Caleb shoots Castle, he's bleeding on the floor. Beckett kills Caleb, but not before she's shot, too. Caleb dies, Beckett and Castle manage to crawl across the floor and are left, presumably to die, together, hand in hand like some sort of twisted "Notebook" ending. Maybe Castle lives, maybe Beckett doesn't, that doesn't matter.

Then we cut to a shot of - the empty loft - that pans into a very full loft, it's full of kids and toys and happiness. It's seven years later and they have kids and everything is great, but ... why show them dying together and then an empty loft. It's much more reminiscent of the seven years later being a "what could have been" and the reality is that both Castle and Beckett died, though they died together.

Once they were canceled they should have cut out the Caleb part and put in more commercials. It would have made more sense that way.

Also, did I miss where Caleb fit back into this? Again, I paid very little attention to LokSat in the end.

Edited by McManda
  • Love 14
Guest

Guest

Eh, it was the perfect resolution to the horror that was this season. When they were shot, I was like "wait? Whose that guy?" before remembering. It was all just so poorly written! So was he the real Locksat? 

That was honestly one of my takeaways. There is no happy ending because behind every big bad is an even bigger bad (eye roll).

And how did they get from bleeding to fine... a little exposition would be nice!

I did like the voiceover at the end.

GenieinTX

GenieinTX

The were actually going to have the two leads dying in pools of blood as the season end cliffhanger?  Damn, I hate these writers so much.  They didn't learn anything.  Then just show a 2 second happily ever after since the show got cancelled.  That damn HEA doesn't make up for leaving everyone in a pool of blood on the kitchen floor!  UGH! 

The best part was Nathan crying.  Damn, that broke my heart. 

But still, that ending was horrible

  • Love 9
KaveDweller

KaveDweller

3 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

Exactly.  They could've had a glass of wine then fade to "seven years later."  I don't see how they would've survived their wounds.

Well, I guess the wounds weren't in the worst spot, directly in the heart or anything. And you still see them breathing when the camera pans away.

2 minutes ago, McManda said:

Probably, but I still don't get it.

Caleb shoots Castle, he's bleeding on the floor. Beckett kills Caleb, but not before she's shot, too. Caleb dies, Beckett and Castle manage to crawl across the floor and presumably die, together, hand in hand like some sort of twisted "Notebook" ending. Maybe Castle lives, maybe Beckett doesn't, that doesn't matter.

Then we cut to a shot of - the empty loft - that pans into a very full loft, it's full of kids and toys and happiness. It's seven years later and they have kids and everything is great, but ... why show them dying together and then an empty loft. It's much more reminiscent of the seven years later being a "what could have been" and the reality is that both Castle and Beckett died, though they died together.

Once they were canceled they should have cut out the Caleb part and put in more commercials. It would have made more sense that way.

Also, did I miss where Caleb fit back into this? Again, I paid very little attention to LokSat in the end.

Yeah, I don't know why they did the empty loft thing. My mother thinks that the voice over meant that the whole show never happened, but the seven years later kind of doesn't make sense if that's the case.

I guess I will depend on someone to write a decent fan fiction resolving how they go from bleeding out to have three kids (and am I the only one who wanted the time traveler to be wrong about the number of kids they had)?

  • Love 3
Lee4U

Lee4U

For me, the ending was purposely ambiguous.  Part of me thinks they did both die and the 7 years later thing was just a bit of something about what could have been (as someone above mentioned) OR they were shot but did survive and did have all that happy family stuff going on 7 years later - but, with no Martha and/or Alexis in sight?  I think they both died.  Makes more sense to me that way - 

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McManda

McManda

Quote

Yeah, I don't know why they did the empty loft thing. My mother thinks that the voice over meant that the whole show never happened, but the seven years later kind of doesn't make sense if that's the case.

Oh geez, that would be almost even worse. "It was all a story, so it doesn't matter what we did!"

They definitely should have cut out the shooting in the loft thing and just let them be happy. The show is cancelled, damn it. The biggest baddest bad ever can be slayed for good.

Maybe Hawley will do a finale postmortem on wtf he was thinking or what he wanted to convey because ... pretty sure he just managed to confuse everyone.

  • Love 4
KaveDweller

KaveDweller

1 minute ago, laredhead said:

Add me to the list of fans who are totally confused by this ending.  Was the last scene supposed to mean that the show was all a fiction created by the writer Castle?  Were Castle & Beckett really shot and survived and went on to have 3 kids in 7 years?  Would someone from ABC please explain the ending? 

I almost don't want anyone to explain the ending, it might make it worse.

  • Love 12
McManda

McManda

(edited)

Also ... if Beckett survived, can we mention the fact that he was shot IN THE CHEST twice in four years?

In my confusion I'm going with this being the spin-off for where the Dash series starts. Per alwayswritewithcoffee on tumblr, per the casting notices the kids were a 7 year old Lilly and twin 3 year old boys. So it doesn't match exactly, but instead of trauma from The Butcher it's trying to get past LokSat and the girl is born first (because if Lilly is 7 in the "seven years later" then ... there's gotta be a pregnancy soon).

Quote

I guess we're lucky the button scene for closure wasn't the family/friends in front of two graves. 

Oh dear god ... I know it's over, but don't give them any ideas for extra clarification scenes for the DVDs.

Edited by McManda
phalange

phalange

I honestly don't know how to feel. I only watched maybe 5 full episodes over the last two seasons, so I have no idea who or what LokSat even was, but I had to watch the finale, because I started watching the show from the very first episode, and I needed closure for the show I used to love that turned into...this.

I knew as soon as the whole LokSat thing ended (or whatever it was that happened), that it was too easy because there was still like 4 minutes left. And sure enough. I guess we know now how they would've killed Beckett. The ending felt obviously tacked on, but they got to be together and have a family, so that's nice. I guess I'm just relieved it wasn't renewed so I didn't have to see the tragic mess the show would've become without Beckett. Also, I'm curious how much this finale strayed from what MilMar originally envisioned for it.

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KaveDweller

KaveDweller

Just now, FlickerToAFlame said:

I guess we're lucky the button scene for closure wasn't the family/friends in front of two graves. 

God, that's so depressing.

The one thing I liked about the episode was hearing Castle talk about why he loved Beckett and Beckett talking about loving Castle. If we're supposed to think they just died and lost all that, I don't even see the point in any of that. What terrible, terrible writing. It would be one thing if they hadn't filmed two endings, but why do that if we didn't actually have a plan for a good ending? 

2 minutes ago, McManda said:

Also ... if Beckett survived, can we mention the fact that he was shot IN THE CHEST twice in four years?

It looked like she was shot in the stomach this time. So that may be easier to survive? But I hate that they've now had her get shot three times (it happened in the season premiere too). It makes her look incompetent. 

1 minute ago, scenicbyway said:

Just saw a comment somewhere else that the empty loft transition was probably supposed to be Castle surviving but moving to LA, hence the empty lift.  Geez they really did tack it on badly. I guess when you know you're losing your job, you don't care about the finished product?

Or maybe showing that they moved into a new apartment where bad guys couldn't keep breaking in and attacking them?

  • Love 4
McManda

McManda

Quote

Just saw a comment somewhere else that the empty loft transition was probably supposed to be Castle surviving but moving to LA, hence the empty loft. Geez they really did tack it on badly. I guess when you know you're losing your job, you don't care about the finished product?

... into the exact same looking loft?

Maaaaybe it was to indicate the passing of time, but after leaving the main characters bleeding out on the floor, panning through an empty loft reads more as "they died, so ... everything is gone". Which is why the seven years later feels out of place. They should have cut Caleb entirely or made some hero move where Caleb is revealed to be LokSat, he dies, and then jump to seven years later.

Once they were cancelled whatever cliffhanger they had planned didn't matter. They should have just said "fuck it, give them what they want", especially if they had the future scene ready in the wings.

I'm curious as to what the scenario was where they get a S9, play the cliffhanger, and then come back with "all hands on deck". TPW and AH have lost me.

  • Love 2
scenicbyway

scenicbyway

3 minutes ago, McManda said:

... into the exact same looking loft?

Maaaaybe it was to indicate the passing of time, but after leaving the main characters bleeding out on the floor, panning through an empty loft reads more as "they died, so ... everything is gone". Which is why the seven years later feels out of place. They should have cut Caleb entirely or made some hero move where Caleb is revealed to be LokSat, he dies, and then jump to seven years later.

Once they were cancelled whatever cliffhanger they had planned didn't matter. They should have just said "fuck it, give them what they want", especially if they had the future scene ready in the wings.

I'm curious as to what the scenario was where they get a S9, play the cliffhanger, and then come back with "all hands on deck". TPW and AH have lost me.

Not into the same loft.  The idea is that Beckett would've died and Castle would've moved to LA for season 9 so the loft would've been empty.  Instead they left it in and it became a transition to the time jump.

  • Love 1
McManda

McManda

Quote

Not into the same loft.  The idea is that Beckett would've died and Castle would've moved to LA for season 9 so the loft would've been empty.  Instead they left it in and it became a transition to the time jump.

Which makes the added on "seven years later" ending even more out of place.

This whole thing reminds me of the editing of Always, where the editor had to take to Twitter to defend her choices of the "just want you scene", specifinally the shot of "demon" Castle (which ended up being a mirrored shot from the part they cut out after she leads him to his bedroom) and the jump cuts where she's apologizing. That crap didn't make sense and really ... neither do these choices.

  • Love 1
scenicbyway

scenicbyway

1 minute ago, KaveDweller said:

I know the theory was that Castle would move to LA and join the GDS, but I'm thinking that wouldn't have happened after the revealed Mason as Loksat. I can't really see Castle wanting anything to do with the GDS after that, and there would be no reason to move him to LA without it.

Why not?  Why would he have stayed on NYC and continue to investigate after Beckett's death?  I could totally see him relocating just for that reason.

KaveDweller

KaveDweller

1 minute ago, scenicbyway said:

Why not?  Why would he have stayed on NYC and continue to investigate after Beckett's death?  I could totally see him relocating just for that reason.

I can see him relocating, but I can't see him relocating to the place where he met the guy responsible for killing Beckett, and who threatened to kill his mother/daughter.

McManda

McManda

(edited)
Quote

 

I watched every episode and still have no idea what LokSat was. I don't even know what Caleb's deal was.
Is there a link to a good, concise explanation???

 

I'm just as confused as you, but ...

LokSat was Bracken's ... partner? boss? ... anyway, someone higher than Bracken. After Bracken was revealed to be in on the whole conspiracy, he was ordered to die by LokSat, which happened while he was awaiting trial. I'm not sure of the jump from dirty cops bribing the mob to the CIA, though. I'm sure there's something about that I missed in the S8 premiere.

Anyway, LokSat wants to clean house, which is why now he's targeting Vikram, Beckett, and anyone they know. Though I think at this point it's most likely Mason Wood wasn't LokSat - Caleb Brown was and Mason Wood was just another front man. At least, that's what I'm going with.

But I admittedly stopped paying attention to the whole storyline. They should have left it with Bracken, honestly.

 

Quote

My take is that Nathan was a beginning writer that just wrote the whole series.  So we have been had.  Castle was the name of the series of books that he was writing and Beckett was the wife who was his inspiration in writing them (she was never a cop)   Martha and his daughter were just characters in the books. 

That ... might be the most palatable explanation I've heard so far. It keeps the romance intact which, in the end, was my main concern when it looked like everything was going to hell.

I don't like the idea that it was all made up (it's too much like the finale of Rosanne), and I would be a little sad to lose Ryan and Epso, though.

Edited by McManda
  • Love 4
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