S04.E20: Genesis

[calliope1975]

Also, if I ever become a crazy, megalomaniacal, evil mastermind, I'm not going to name my plan to take over the world after a Bible verse, or after a passage in a well known book, or after anything that the heroes can figure out. It's be some nonsensical word like Hamburger. Fork. Toe. 

[bijoux]

It was an enjoyable episode, though I didn't love it as much as a lot of you did. The answer to keeping Darhk off seemed a little pedestrian and sort of made it obvious that they didn't think the whole magic thing through. Maybe if they fleshed out the training session with Fortuna. Who I liked fine and who bears a pretty striking resemblance to Haley Atwell.

My favorite moment hands down was Lyla sending Dig and Sara off. It just underscored the dangers of both of their jobs and showed the tought choices they have to make because of them. It was really excellent because it was packed in there among the action and pretty short, yet it packed a punch.

So, Felicity giving Oliver the boot is on the same level as a bunch of his family and friends dying, and Poppy drinking evil juice? Touching and hilarious at the same time.

Sort of bummed to see Milo gone. I liked the idea of having a baddie in the background all along.

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Did anyone else go "Aw!" when baby Sara lifted up her arms to be picked up by her daddy because I DID. So cute. 

I also loved Diggle flying out of the back of the truck on a motorcycle. So happy he can partake in those kind of stunts now. *wicked grin*

Baby Sara was excellent. There were also shots of her freaked out when the truck came under attack and she was strapped to Dig's back.

1 hour ago, quarks said:

4. I realize that Thea was slightly drugged, but I still think that she should have realized that something was up when her "vacation" took her to a suburban house in a deserted suburban neighborhood instead of - and I'm just throwing this idea out there, Alex - the beach. Or Disney World. You know. Usual vacation spots.

Even without being unwittingly under HIVE's influence, I totally buy that Alex would take Thea to the lamest vacation ever. He's just a dull boy.

1 hour ago, Angel12d said:

I wonder if they're setting up some Diggle/Lyla difficulties for next season? It's just that Lyla mentioned that Diggle was acting like the man she divorced and then he lied to her about Andy reaching for his gun when he had to kill him. It just made me think we're setting Diggle on a darker path and that might create complications. Maybe, maybe not. We'll see!

It's definitely possible. The story he concocted about Andy almost definitely has to lead to problems with Lyla and/or the team.

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I like that Felicity took Sara to Donna so she could look after the peanut while Diggle and Lyla recovered.  It's interesting how there is a natural role for Donna on this show but there wasn't for Laurel.

You mean munchkin, don't you?

5 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

I'm hoping that Thea figures out how to outsmart her Under the Dome situation. I'm still not sure if Alex is evil, drugged, or dumb. It could be any of the three at this point. 

I'll take options b and c.

[looptab]

Nothing more to say :) Amazing episode! I can't believe there were no flashbacks! Plus no LL! Is this real life?

By the way, I don't think Oliver was referring just to Laurel with 'telling me to keep fighting' but to all of them.

I don't know whether 'I thought of you' was cut or SA just misquoted.

Lyla is such a badass, cool stunts, I was surprised when Dig killed Andy, the shaman was fun. Fun, good episode.

'I was letting you grieve. I was being nice. You don't know how much I hate being nice!' I feel you, DD. :D

[ottoDbusdriver]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm wondering why Alex and Thea were selected to be under the dome? Were they being chosen to repopulate or something?

And what happens when Barbie, Julia and Big Jim Rennie show up ?  </sarcasm>

[Lady Calypso]

I enjoyed the episode. I think I'll rewatch it later, just to catch all the moments I've missed.

I do think that the episode worked well by drawing on its strengths: lots of OTA, Oliver/Felicity, Diggle/Lyla, plenty of action scenes and no flashbacks. Sure, I'm not totally loving the magic aspect, but the episode was still fun.

I wish they would find Thea a better storyline. She was always better when Roy was around, so maybe bring back Roy? She just has nothing going for her, and I'm not interested in her living Under The StarDome. Plus, Alex is boring. I like Parker Young in other things, but he feels underused here. It also feels like they're throwing him into this Ruve thing, but he doesn't seem like a bad guy either. Just drugged, dumb and confused. 

The Diggle family scenes were very cute. I know he had to kill his brother, because Andy was basically telling him that he wouldn't stop trying to kill his family. I don't know whether I like the potential family problems for next season, but if means more Lyla....

I did laugh at Oliver defeating Darhk by having his eyes glow gold. 

The Olicity scenes were really well done. Yeah, they still have that chemistry and neither are trying to hide it. It feels like they either were never together, or they never broke up. I don't mind it, per say, but I am also aware that it happened. Maybe this'll be the start to Oliver's path to good. 

Really good episode, Nice, fun, and it sets up the final episodes nicely. 

[tarotx]

Oliver didn't want to return to Star(ling) because he didn't know how to fight darkness without going dark himself. It was always going to be Oliver finding he can channel the light his friends have thought him in a similar superpower as the guilt over loss has given him. I love the Patronus reference someone posted. It's true.  

[bijoux]

I'll give them this for the dome. They gave it a hive pattern. On the nose, but nice.

What did Wee Wittle Andy Diggle say about Sara when he was torturing John? It's a good this Sara is... like me.

[looptab]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I'll give them this for the dome. They gave it a hive pattern. On the nose, but nice.

What did Wee Wittle Andy Diggle say about Sara when he was torturing John? It's a good this Sara is... like me.

I'm waiting for the transcript to go up because I couldn't catch several lines, this being one of them.

[apinknightmare]

10 minutes ago, looptab said:

I'm waiting for the transcript to go up because I couldn't catch several lines, this being one of them.

14 minutes ago, bijoux said:

What did Wee Wittle Andy Diggle say about Sara when he was torturing John? It's a good this Sara is... like me.

"There's that temper I remember. It's a good thing Sara's not gonna have to grow up with it like I did."

Edited May 5, 2016 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

4 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

"There's that temper I remember. It's a good thing Sara's not gonna have to grow up with it like I did."

Thanks :) 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, looptab said:

By the way, I don't think Oliver was referring just to Laurel with 'telling me to keep fighting' but to all of them.

Yeah, it didn't come across like Laurel was the only one saying to have hope. But all of them were. Felicity, Diggle, Thea and Laurel. It was the whole team, IMO.

I thought for sure we'd see/hear that though, especially as we saw his flashbacks to all of the darkness within him. I wonder why they chose not to do that?

Edited May 5, 2016 by Guest

[twoods]

Gregory Smith needs to direct more episodes. He was awesome in Everwood and directing Rookie Blue- love it.

For once the Olicity angst didn't overpower the show. Their scenes were nice, as were the Diggle family scenes. Nice twist with Alex being an unknown Darkh minion.

[La Dee Da]

This episode did a lot of fine work to set up the finale - the magic showdown, Hive's real estate investments (evil must pay really well if they could build all that), rubicon.   

For next year's flashbacks (if they must), can Oliver be in a British branch of Bratva? I don't know which scene I rewinded more, Oliver's Constantine impression, or Sara's "I really could've used those diapers!" face while in her assuredly bullet proof baby carrier during the motorcycle chase.

Those final scenes with Digg and Andy were really well done.  I hope for Diggle's sake that Andy was truly evil and not just under the influence of the yellow pills. If the latter, Digg's guilt would be unimaginable - he's already not willing to believe that he had no choice and then to find out Andy could've been saved.......

I loved how the Hive drones didn't even flinch when Darhk took out Milo and whatever the lady was named.  I am curious what or who Milo's "contingency" plan is - maybe the season five big bad?

[looptab]

20 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Yeah, it didn't come across like Laurel was the only one saying to have hope. But all of them were. Felicity, Diggle, Thea and Laurel. It was the whole team, IMO.

I thought for sure we'd see/hear that though, especially as we saw his flashbacks to all of the darkness within him. I wonder why they chose not to do that?

IDK, maybe to avoid redundancy when he told Felicity about it? I'm fine even if they didn't show that, though I think I'd have preferred that to the gold eyes, LOL.

[bijoux]

5 minutes ago, La Dee Da said:

Those final scenes with Digg and Andy were really well done.  I hope for Diggle's sake that Andy was truly evil and not just under the influence of the yellow pills. If the latter, Digg's guilt would be unimaginable - he's already not willing to believe that he had no choice and then to find out Andy could've been saved.......

Andy was in a cell in the lair for three months. Those were flushed out of his system. He just seemed really messed up with all the saviour crap.

Since @apinknightmare managed to decipher what Andy said about Sara, could someone do the same with his line about Carly and Andy Jr.? It came before, I left my family a long time ago.

[SleepDeprived]

I just thought of something potentially squicky... Did Alex undress and redress Thea after he drugged her to whisk her away to some unknown location? I know that Alex is, likely, also under the Darhks' control since he took the yellow mind control pills but, still, that implication's just a little too unsettling. Not that the whole being trapped under the dome thing isn't already creepy. Actually, everything about Thea's current situation is freaky and unsettling. I hope she finds a way out and works from the inside to take down H.I.V.E.'s corn-powered (it's a biofuel!) Dome.

Maybe Father of the Year, Malcolm Merlyn, had a hand (pun!) in Thea's transportation? After all, he's had plenty of practice in violating her consent and overriding her wishes all this time. Malcolm's the worst.

Also, apparently, Alex is one of those people who gladly agree to take unknown medicines because it's "good for you" or it's a "vitamin supplement." Dude has to be the most gullible of persons. How is he working in politics again?

[apinknightmare]

14 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Since @apinknightmare managed to decipher what Andy said about Sara, could someone do the same with his line about Carly and Andy Jr.? It came before, I left my family a long time ago.

Digg: "How could you do this to everyone again for a second time?" 

Andy: "Oh. I know what you're doing. You're referring to former wife and son. I left that life a long time ago, John."

Edited May 5, 2016 by apinknightmare

[bijoux]

You are awesome. Do you have super hearing?

[apinknightmare]

Just now, bijoux said:

You are awesome. Do you have super hearing?

Once upon a time I worked at a place run by people who spoke nearly unintelligible English. So I've learned to make things out, haha. 

[bijoux]

This is not how I saw my day ending after that first diaper change this morning.

[Lantern7]

Anybody else into Doonesbury? I remember when BD and Boopsie couldn't find a sitter for their baby daughter, so BD would take her to work. He was a California Highway Patrolman. Boopsie was not happy when she found out. Anyway, that's where my mind went seeing John and Sara spending quality daddy/daughter time.

[Artsda]

Wow, that was actually good. 

Loved Thea figuring out the pattern and she's in some Truman show bubble! Can't wait to see more of that. 

[Xenith22]

Sorry, it had to be done after the show pulled that mcguffin out of its you know what...

I also couldn't help but notice the similarity to Supergirl and how the contrivance of positive thinking magically freed everyone in the city from Non's high tech mind control.  So now I can not help but wonder the sequence of events...  Did they really each come up with using essentially the same major plot contrivance on their own?  Did one set of writers come up with this on their own and the other show stole it?   Did they brainstorming it together?  I just want to know who to blame the most...

Quote

6. Arrow, I'm not against all of this "Laurel was like my sister!" stuff, except to pull this off, it had to be earned. Diggle and Laurel had maybe four or five one on one scenes, if that, during the course of the entire series, only one of which was a personal conversation in a relaxed setting. We never, for instance, saw them hanging out at home or getting coffee. Laurel had more of those moments with Nyssa, Thea and even Felicity. It's one thing to have Oliver say he's going to get revenge, but with Diggle, not so much.

Yeah, I think we essentially have to just assume there is a lot of stuff we did not see.  Basically what I am thinking is that the two may have bonded a good bit during the approx 6 months between S3-S4 where Oliver and Felicity were gone.  It was just Diggle, Laurel, and Thea who were working and training together during all that time so I could definitely see them developing a much closer bond than before when they were just Oliver's subordinates and not forced to really interact with each other on a meaningful level.   Although I do agree that show then really failed to do anything with that afterwards, outside of the one moment where they briefly rebelled as a team against Oliver taking over full control again, it was never referenced or shown again in any way... Pfffft stupid show.

While I'm back on Questionable Things, did we ever figure out how, exactly, H.I.V.E. is powering up this underground cave thing, which is now providing sunlight, power for several houses, and occasional barking dogs?

Evil thoughts...duh!

Edited May 5, 2016 by Xenith22

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, Xenith22 said:

Sorry, it had to be done...

Bless you 

[lemotomato]

I forgot about Peter Pan and thought of Finding Nemo. Figured SA would appreciate that the key to bringing down the Big Bad came from his kid's favorite movie.

[looptab]

24 minutes ago, bijoux said:

This is not how I saw my day ending after that first diaper change this morning.

That shot was awesome. :) The whole scene actually. So much to love about this episode!

[EmeraldArcher]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

While I'm back on Questionable Things, did we ever figure out how, exactly, H.I.V.E. is powering up this underground cave thing, which is now providing sunlight, power for several houses, and occasional barking dogs?

Palmer Tech's amazing new battery?

Did anybody else love that sleeveless mauve pleated blouse on Felicity?  I am really loving her style this season! No boob windows, no daring cocktail dress for a first date and trivia night, no silly dresses with horses prancing about the hem to wear to a corporate job. She seems dressed appropriately for every occasion this season, and has transitioned into casual elegance. I remember WM mentioning in a pre-season interview that we'd see Felicity's casual wear this season because we'd see her at home more--I think they've nailed her style almost every episode.  

Also, I love Lyla, and I'm always so glad when she shows up.  I agree with whomever mentioned wanting more Lyla instead of Curtis.

[bijoux]

12 minutes ago, EmeraldArcher said:

Did anybody else love that sleeveless mauve pleated blouse on Felicity?  I am really loving her style this season! No boob windows, no daring cocktail dress for a first date and trivia night, no silly dresses with horses prancing about the hem to wear to a corporate job. She seems dressed appropriately for every occasion this season, and has transitioned into casual elegance. I remember WM mentioning in a pre-season interview that we'd see Felicity's casual wear this season because we'd see her at home more--I think they've nailed her style almost every episode.  

What dress with prancing horses? I liked the top from the back, something was off from the front, though.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

While I'm back on Questionable Things, did we ever figure out how, exactly, H.I.V.E. is powering up this underground cave thing, which is now providing sunlight, power for several houses, and occasional barking dogs?

Instead of a recorded track for ambiance, how about saving a few birds and dogs and let them bark and chirp for real?

[Chaser]

The lack of flashbacks were the best part. Everything flowed better.

I was glad Diggle shot Andy. I wanted off that back and forth ride. Poor Diggle. Also, honesty with your wife is the best policy. Stop with the Oliver Queen impersonations.

Love Love Love Lyla. Argus Agent Lyla. Mom Lyla. Wife Lyla. I will take every Lyla. 

I knew I would enjoy the Olicity subplot because it was Olicity but I didn't think I would like the magic aspect. I was wrong. I loved the magic teacher. She was so entertaining. Perfect casting there. 

I just love Olicity. SA and EBRs little acting choices were perfect. I'm actually fine with them not getting back together if we get more of this. A redo of the summer of love and with Laurel dead I don't have to put up with Because Comics. Win win. 

Alex isn't evil. He is stupid.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Yeah, it didn't come across like Laurel was the only one saying to have hope. But all of them were. Felicity, Diggle, Thea and Laurel. It was the whole team, IMO.

I thought for sure we'd see/hear that though, especially as we saw his flashbacks to all of the darkness within him. I wonder why they chose not to do that?

Cut for time? 

 

1 hour ago, Xenith22 said:

Sorry, it had to be done after the show pulled that mcguffin out of its you know what...

I also couldn't help but notice the similarity to Supergirl and how the contrivance of positive thinking magically freed everyone in the city from Non's high tech mind control.  So now I can not help but wonder the sequence of events...  Did they really each come up with using essentially the same major plot contrivance on their own?  Did one set of writers come up with this on their own and the other show stole it?   Did they brainstorming it together?

And the Supergirl plot strongly reminded me of the Smallville finale where "Superman" showed up inspiring hope and through that power of belief the darkness was defeated and Clark was able to move a flaming PLANET of doom back out to space.  I'm expecting Barry on Flash to be brought back by the power of LOVE as well. Maybe that's how Kendra finally defeats Vandal Savage.  She loves him to death. 

I'm not surprised that hope and love and light vs darkness are used since they are a repeating theme found in comic book inspired shows but it does feel like more than an accident to have the same plot points pop up on multiple shows run by the same group so close together.  It's like the sudden rise of Harry Potty references we've been getting lately.  Are they seeking a sponsorship? 

Actually, seriously now...anyone been paying attention to the commercials?  Have they been advertising the Harry Potter kingdom adventures or whatever they are called during Arrow and The Flash?   

Edited after doing research and NOPE there are no commercials for Harry Potter themes parks.  The marketing department really should get on that. 

Edited May 5, 2016 by BkWurm1
Watching commercials

[Xenith22]

4 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Lady Fortuna (also Oliver's password to get in the casino - I had to close caption to understand why he was playing for tuna) was wonderfully cast and acted.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Xenith22

[Password]

I had a different reaction to most everyone on this thread. I thought 75% of the episode was draggy but the last 10 minutes was like a shot of adrenaline. Really great stuff, season1/2 action type thing. 

But this episode did something overwhelmingly well: 3 plots, no flashbacks, no Laurel shoehorned into the story. It was one of the most balanced stories in Arrow history (a trait I attributed to episode 9 of this season before this episode). The writers did a fantastic job of splitting up the team but allowing them to still work together towards the same goal (minus Thea who was pulled into the story by her dumb boyfriend). 

Oliver and Felicity: will these two let me live? I think they do a really good job of being broken up, but still completely in love with each other. It's a feat only heart eyes Oliver and "don't treat me like the others" (which was an awesome moment) Felicity can pull off.  I WAS WAITING FOR I "THOUGHT OF YOU"!!!!!! I adored the Shaman. I wouldn't mind her returning at all even though she gave up on Oliver after 2 minutes. 

I needed Andy gone. Torturing John was unacceptable and my heart broke for Diggle. Killing a family member probably feels like killing yourself. Chopping off an arm, something that just cannot grow back.

LYLA! Oh my gosh she was fantastic! She was the MVP for me this episode even though John and Andy were in the limelight. I absolutely loved the scene where Lyla told John to leave. This woman is ten different kinds of badass and I applaud her. She knows whats up. As an interesting aside, I'm really feeling the parallels between Olicity and the Diggles romantic relationship. Lyla said John was acting like the man she divorced which was HARSH but totally reminded me of when Felicity said "I don't want to be a woman you love". Like I said, will they let me live?

If I didn't OTP Oliver and Felicity so much Lyla and Diggle would be the show's OTP. *sniff* so married and beautiful.
 

[bijoux]

  

  

I really need someone to zoom the heck in on that last exchange.

21 minutes ago, Password said:

LYLA! Oh my gosh she was fantastic! She was the MVP for me this episode even though John and Andy were in the limelight. I absolutely loved the scene where Lyla told John to leave. This woman is ten different kinds of badass and I applaud her. She knows whats up. As an interesting aside, I'm really feeling the parallels between Olicity and the Diggles romantic relationship. Lyla said John was acting like the man she divorced which was HARSH but totally reminded me of when Felicity said "I don't want to be a woman you love". Like I said, will they let me live?

How about this parallel?

  

      

[Cthulhudrew]

Best episode in quite a while, probably since before the midseason break. Some minor quibbles (such as the CareBear Stare being the macguffin needed to defeat Dahrk's magic), but overall very well done. Glad to see Diggle put down his retcon-problematic brother, and that it wasn't done coldly or with murderous intent that, but in a moment of passion that clearly shocked even himself. Not sure why he felt the need to lie to Lilah about it, the way it went down, but whatev.

Not-Zatanna was an okay stand-in for Constantine (wish they could get Matt Ryan as a regular, or at least a guest; I miss that show). One thing that Arrow is doing better this season than the Flash is with the ambition of its villain. Sure, he's way too powerful and all attempts to dislodge him are too quickly dismissed by the writers in an effort to inflate his sense of doom, but at least he's not apparently threatening entire worlds. It makes it easier to accept that Team Arrow is trying to handle him solo rather than call in help from friends all the time, whereas the opposite doesn't hold true.

On another note, the entire time Andy and the ghosts were chasing down ARGUS's mobile HQ, was I the only one thinking: "If only Deadshot were around to help Digg?"

[Cthulhudrew]

5 hours ago, quarks said:

... I was all excited until I realized that the motorcycle stunts were headed RIGHT BACK TO THE SAME ROAD that Arrow and Flash seem compelled to use for the majority of their car stunts (I'm assuming it must be on or near the lot)...

I don't normally notice set reuse quite so much, because I tend to focus more on the dialogue, but this stuck out like a sore thumb to me tonight. I was probably more primed than usual to notice it because of a comment about set re-use I'd read on The Flash forum, but when they first drove their motorcycles by that underpass I remember thinking "That looks like where Harrison Wells got attacked by a meta last week." And then they kept using shots of that underpass!!!

It's getting pretty bad when it is so blatant that it draws me out of paying attention to the other things I pay attention to. lol

(But I did like the sets they used for Thea's Stepford Wives pieces, plus the lighting was a nice contrast to the too often dark scenery.)

[BkWurm1]

Quote

On another note, the entire time Andy and the ghosts were chasing down ARGUS's mobile HQ, was I the only one thinking: "If only Deadshot were around to help Digg?"

What I was thinking was why on earth would ANYONE take a job as a driver in this city? They ALWAYS die.  Ruve's driver being the exception.  At least this one lasted longer than most.  Still not sure why he got out of the bullet proof cab.  Maybe DD made him? 

[looptab]

Seriously, I didn't even finish thinking 'Hey, this ARGUS driver is not an idiot!' that he ended up dead.

[thuganomics85]

No flashbacks!  That alone made this episode ten times better!  I felt a bit bad that that I was so happy when I didn't see the actress playing Poppy's name in the credits, but seriously: the flashbacks are the worst, and this episode felt so much smoother without that stupid shit.

Glad Diggle finally put Andy down, even if it will no doubt effect him going forward.  But I honestly don't care if he was unarmed: he clearly was going to be a threat to Lyla and Sara, and I think he was right that even if they did lock him back up, he would eventually get out again.  I don't blame Diggle at all.  I'm worried that him lying to Lyla is going to end up blowing up in his face; I think she would have understood the truth.  Still, David Ramsey killed it again, but I still think he's one of the strongest actors on this show, so that was no surprise.

The magic stuffy continues to be wonky, but it was just fun seeing Oliver and Felicity being friendly again, and on the same page for the most part.  Sure, there was that brief moment where Oliver just had to throw another pity party (drink!), but Felicity kicking ass at blackjack and Oliver's imitation of John Constantine, more then made up for it.  You see, writers?!  You don't have to make them so angsty.  They can work just like this!

Thea is trapped under a dome?  That's underground?  Yeah, this shit is just weird.

Neal McDonough continues to be so damn entertaining as Damien.  Him being so giddy over Diggle escaping on the motorcycle was the best. It makes it even more jarring when you compare him to Casper Crump currently over on Legends of Tomorrow.  Even if Damien isn't the most original villain out there, Neal's at least charismatic and makes the character fun to watch.

Much better episode compared to the majority of the season.

[Midnight Lullaby]

The episode was GOOD.

Oliver, Felicity, Dig and Lyla on the field together is what dreams are made of. They can be the new team Arrow and drop Thea, Curtis and everyone else for me. They get shit done.

No Laurel and one second of zombie Poppy was a huge improvement.

I love Oliver and Felicity working as partners and supporting each other. They aren't together at this point but they act as a couple with Felicity giving Oliver the emotional support he needs and Oliver opening up and trusting her. It's so great and I'll never forgive the writers for messing up with such perfection.

I also love Dig and Lyla. Lyla is such a badass and she calls Dig out when he messes up like Felicity does with Oliver. And baby Sara is the cutest, I was laughing at loud when she was behind her dad on the motorcycle hahaha.

I was afraid Dig was going to kill Andy in the end but still it was a great emotional scene. Also he lied to Lyla, maybe for shame or out of guilt so that story definitely isn't over.

Thea freaking out was entertaining too and apparently Alex is just gullible, not evil. That's improvement right?

Edited May 5, 2016 by Midnight Lullaby

[bijoux]

Are they actually tying up Dig's lying to Lyla with his advice to Oliver? Because he boiled down Felicity dumping Oliver to him having a kid and was missing that it was the lying that was the problem. Here, he sees killing Andy as the problem and then lies to Lyla. If they actually bring these two threads together, kudos.

Even if Andy was playing him at the beginning, nice maneuvering getting him handcuffed. I also enjoyed Dig just ramming into that fence and knocking Andy down. Top notch.

Do you think Argus has a school for their agents' kids? Because one would not want Sara among others when she starts forming sentences. What did you do over the weekend, class? -Oh, just riding shot gun while aunt Felicity mowed someone down. Same old, same old.

On reflection, I think my only problem with the episode was the laziness of Oliver using magic. Oh, there's your tattoo and think happy thoughts. Done. I mean, Fortuna is an immortal, why was she in such a rush? It makes sense with all the themes and beats they keep bringing up, but more thought should have been put into it.

Is that exterior location where Andy first got away from Dig the gulag from 206?

Felicity needs to use the technology from that truck on the lair now. Proximity sensor and blowing up intruders? Come on, that's totally in both her and Oliver's wheelhouse. Maybe Lyla intended it as a wedding present?

Edited May 5, 2016 by bijoux

[morakot]

7 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Arrow The Dome.

But is there a methane lake there? (I will admit, seeing the Dome made me laugh out loud.)

[kes0704]

Wow.  That was a great episode of Arrow and I haven't been able to say that very often this season.  All of the characters had plots that gave them something meaningful to do, there was no need to fast forward boring flashback scenes, and no Lance's...at all, triple yay!!

Loved the Diggle/Lyla and Oliver/Felicity scenes with both pairings working so well together. For the first time in ages I'm actually hopeful about the next episodes and will gladly watch this one again.  

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, kes0704 said:

 

Loved the Diggle/Lyla and Oliver/Felicity scenes with both pairings working so well together. For the first time in ages I'm actually hopeful about the next episodes and will gladly watch this one again.  

I also cheered when they split off to pair up Felicity and Dig, and Oliver and Lyla. Too bad Lyla was unconscious. I get that it had to be done for the Rubicon reveal and so that Oliver was there after Dig shot Andy and not her. I don't even mind on a larger scale. I just want more Oliver and Lyla scenes. Having the four of them together at the end also had me spinning headcanons about double dates and family dinners and them pairing off to roll their eyes at their respective partners.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

First things first - LOVED that pink dress Felicity wore to the casino. And it was nice to see the two of them get dressed up together at an event where no one was shot, kidnapped, etc. Oliver imitating Constantine's accent was adorable.

When Fortuna was talking about the light and the dark, I thought really? We're going to do this Darth Vader turning to the dark side stuff.

Damian is many things, including a detail oriented perfectionist, so I have a hard time believing that he would let his little Stepford town's Sounds of Nature soundtrack be a ten second clip looped endlessly. You know he would have told someone to record hours of peaceful neighborhood sounds and find the equivalent of a nature DJ to create the perfect remix.

[paigow]

43 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

You know he would have told someone to record hours of peaceful neighborhood sounds and find the equivalent of a nature DJ to create the perfect remix.

Too bad DJ Jazzy Douche is dead... 

[ComicFan777]

I think that Diggle lied to Lyla because he was ashamed and afraid that for a split second, he did revert back to the man that Lyla divorced - afraid that maybe that darkness never left him.  I am sure Lyla would have understood, but he's still afraid that if he says it out loud to Lyla that she might see that man that she divorced, she might see that he never really changed and that he has always been that man.  We never saw what he was like after his tour to Afghanistan when he was spiraling, but Lyla did.  Diggle is really shaken, so I don't think he is being logical and just letting his insecurities get the best of him right now.

[tarotx]

Oliver having to use "light" magic somewhat was always going to happen ever since Damien "Darhk" was known to be a magic using big bad. Oliver always fights the big bad so him having to defend magic was coming but especially since 4.5 and Constantine's gifted him a magic tattoo in the Flashbacks. This episode was always going to call back to that one, what with a similar use of a magic vision. 

[dtissagirl]

Here's completely useless trivia of the Because Vancouver variety, because it amuses me [and probably only me]:

We had a casino, and a character named Esrin Fortuna in this episode. James Kidnie, who played Milo Armitage on Arrow [until this episode, RIP], once played a dude named Amos Fortune, who was the owner of a casino in Smallville's episode Fortune.

The moral of this story is DC comics kinda has no creativity whatsoever.

[AyChihuahua]

9 hours ago, ArrowFan said:

I don't think he wanted Sara so much as he wanted to use her to force Lyla to give him the chip/tell him where she's hiding it. Unluckily, it was IN her...

He went straight from realizing Sara wasn't there to ripping the chip out of her arm. He seemed to be quite aware where it was.

Also, Felicity didn't seem to know Oliver was living in the bunker. Rewatching now, and she said "You've been living down here?" They're both out of the loft.

@quarks, when did he look down her bra? Need to know, for...science.

Edited May 5, 2016 by AyChihuahua