The Mary Tyler Moore Show - General Discussion

[chessiegal]

I was watching a rerun today where Mary is having one of her notoriously party failures and Suzanne makes Veal Prince Orloff. I Googled the dish today, and what they showed has zero resemblance to the dish, which does exist. What they showed was probably beef prime rib. Okay then.

Edited June 14, 2019 by chessiegal

[Peace 47]

18 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I was watching a rerun today where Mary is having one of her notoriously party failures and Suzanne makes Veal Prince Orloff. I Googled the dish today, and what they showed has zero resemblance to the dish, which does exist. What they showed was probably beef prime rib. Okay then.

I watched the MTM show with my family when it was on Nick at Nite or TV Land when I was home from college one summer years and years ago and haven’t really watched it since, but this episode has one of the funniest moments for me.  I just love how Lou puts a big helping of Veal Prince Orloff on his plate; Mary has to pull him aside and say she doesn’t have enough food for everyone, and so then he announces to the table that it turns out he’s not as hungry as he thought he was.  All as he dishes some back onto the serving plate, lol.  My dad and I still joke to this day about announcing how long til the Veal Prince Orloff is ready when preparing a meal for other family.  I always appreciate those pop culture moments that get sucked into your family’s dialect!

[chessiegal]

18 minutes ago, Peace 47 said:

watched the MTM show with my family when it was on Nick at Nite or TV Land when I was home from college one summer years and years ago

I watched it when it originally aired on broadcast TV! Yes, I'm old. It's such a well written, directed, and produced show. So many funny moments. 

[HyeChaps]

And why couldn’t Rhoda live happily ever after with Henry Winkler?

[ganesh]

Look who I found.

[annzeepark914]

On 6/14/2019 at 3:41 PM, chessiegal said:

I watched it when it originally aired on broadcast TV! Yes, I'm old. It's such a well written, directed, and produced show. So many funny moments. 

Me too.  I loved the show right from the start because I was working in a Congressional office and our AA (today's AA's have fancier titles, of course) was our very own Ted Baxter. We all loathed him.  He was a legend in his own mind, just like Ted.

[annzeepark914]

On 6/14/2019 at 4:32 PM, ganesh said:

Look who I found.

Aw...I loved Mary Richards and had a dark navy coat and beret just like hers.  Somewhere I have a photo of me standing next to this statue (when it was Macy's in back) and I'm pretending to toss my visor. It was odd, though, that Mary's apt had that big window because when they'd show the house, the big window was on the top floor (where poor Rhoda lived).

[chessiegal]

The Chuckles the Clown gets killed by an elephant episode is on FETV today. That has to be a classic.

[andromeda331]

The Sundance channel finally made it back to the first season. The show really lost something when Rhoda left. She's great, fun and funny and fits perfectly with Mary plus Mary lost her best friend. Sue Ellen and Georgette didn't really fill the spot of a best friend for Mary.

Edited July 29, 2019 by andromeda331

[txhorns79]

On 7/29/2019 at 10:02 AM, andromeda331 said:

The show really lost something when Rhoda left. She's great, fun and funny and fits perfectly with Mary plus Mary lost her best friend. Sue Ellen and Georgette didn't really fill the spot of a best friend for Mary.

Yeah, I understand that they probably had no choice but to spin Rhoda off, but you are right that there was a big hole that the show was never able to fill after Rhoda left. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, I understand that they probably had no choice but to spin Rhoda off, but you are right that there was a big hole that the show was never able to fill after Rhoda left. 

It really was. I get why Rhoda left but it would have been nice if they could feel that role with someone else. I found it at season 5 on Sundance and although the rest of series is good. But there's a difference. She didn't have anyone to hang with that she didn't work with. Mary and Rhoda were so fun and so funny together. It would have been nice to see her gain a new best friend that didn't work at the station (or way for Rhoda to live in two places at the same time). 

[chessiegal]

FETV carries the show weekdays at 1 pm Eastern time.

I like Mary's hair better in later seasons when it's shorter. Wardrobe does a great job with her clothes.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, chessiegal said:

FETV carries the show weekdays at 1 pm Eastern time.

I like Mary's hair better in later seasons when it's shorter. Wardrobe does a great job with her clothes.

I love her clothes and Rhoda's clothes. They both looked great.

[monakane]

23 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I love her clothes and Rhoda's clothes. They both looked great.

I'm rewatching this now on Hulu.  I haven't seen it since it's original run when I was a kid.  I loved Rhoda back in the day and always liked her wardrobe better than Mary's.  I still do.  My favorite part of the show then and now is the friendship between Mary and Rhoda.  It felt real to me then and holds up well now.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, monakane said:

I'm rewatching this now on Hulu.  I haven't seen it since it's original run when I was a kid.  I loved Rhoda back in the day and always liked her wardrobe better than Mary's.  I still do.  My favorite part of the show then and now is the friendship between Mary and Rhoda.  It felt real to me then and holds up well now.

Its definitely one of the best friendships ever on TV. Its just so natural. They clicked and it never felt forced. Both are such great characters and had great chemistry and so funny. I did love the work stuff but I really loved the scenes with Mary and Rhoda hanging out together talking or doing something. 

[chessiegal]

Saw a recent rerun on FETV where the writers got in a good dig at wardrobe. I don't ever remember seeing Mary in an outfit she has worn before unless it was jeans and a sweater. Mary asks Lou for a raise, and Ted says she needs it because she's a clothes horse. Hah! I always wondered how big her closets were to hold all those clothes!

[txhorns79]

Valerie Harper has passed away.  She was 80 at the time of her death.  She really was wonderful as Rhoda. 

As an aside, one of my favorite Rhoda moments was from her wedding episode where after taking the subway and running across a good part of the Bronx in her wedding dress, Rhoda complains to Mary that the dress is shot and she'll never be able to wear it again. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by txhorns79

[Mystery]

From Ed Asner: 

[vb68]

RIP Valerie Harper.  You truly did create one of the most loved characters of all time. Thank you for all the wonderful memories.  Hug Mary for us, too.

[andromeda331]

No! Not Rhoda!

[Ashforth]

Though I didn't realize it at the time, Rhoda as portrayed by Valerie Harper on The Mary Tyler Moore Show was a huge role model for me (as was Mary). Rhoda didn't take any shit from anyone, she spoke her mind, and if I recall correctly she had a fairly active love life for a single woman on tv in the 70's. Valerie Harper played her brilliantly.

She and Mary were each other's yin and yang. I hope they had a beautiful reunion this morning.

[voiceover]

One of the greatest TV weddings in the history of the medium.

[catlover79]

She was told she only had a couple of months to live in early 2013, and hung on for nearly seven more years. Ironically, both she and Mary passed very shortly after their respective 80th birthdays. Valerie was a fighter and survivor, and an inspiration. Thank goodness her work as Rhoda and beyond is around for us to always enjoy. Ed Asner said it best: "Goodnight beautiful". Rest in peace. ❤

Edited August 31, 2019 by catlover79

[chessiegal]

Sundance Channel appears to be airing MTM on a regular basis in the wee hours of Friday mornings. I watched my 1st recorded episode yesterday, and it cut off early. I've modified my recordings to add 5 minutes.

[CrazyMoon]

On 8/30/2019 at 4:23 PM, txhorns79 said:

Valerie Harper has passed away.  She was 80 at the time of her death.  She really was wonderful as Rhoda. 

As an aside, one of my favorite Rhoda moments was from her wedding episode where after taking the subway and running across a good part of the Bronx in her wedding dress, Rhoda complains to Mary that the dress is shot and she'll never be able to wear it again. 

This 2-part episode will be shown Sunday on TVLand...I've got the DVR set to record all of the shows in the tribute....MTM & Rhoda...some featuring the amazing Nancy Walker as Ida Morganstern.

[andromeda331]

13 hours ago, chessiegal said:

Sundance Channel appears to be airing MTM on a regular basis in the wee hours of Friday mornings. I watched my 1st recorded episode yesterday, and it cut off early. I've modified my recordings to add 5 minutes.

They run it off and on the Sundance Channel. I've had my DVR set for about six months and there's been countless times they end up showing a movie or something else in its place for weeks. They'll have it on for a few Fridays and the its gone again.  

[chessiegal]

Thanks for heads up. I would have thought Sundance abandoned me. I don't see Decades coming back to my market. I see Hulu carries MTM, but I already subscribe to Netflix and Amazon Prime. I don't want another subscription for 1 show.

[catlover79]

On 7/31/2019 at 9:28 AM, chessiegal said:

FETV carries the show weekdays at 1 pm Eastern time.

I like Mary's hair better in later seasons when it's shorter.

I actually liked it longer (but am aware of the fact that she wore a wig/extensions for awhile to make it easier for the viewers to see Mary Richards and not Laura Petrie). While the show was certainly very good from seasons 5-7, the magic was truly there from seasons 1-4. 

My first name also begins with an "M", so I found a wooden "M" for my wall at a crafts store. I'd also like Rhoda's "etc" sign and the "a" and "z" bookends like the ones in Bob's office on The Bob Newhart Show. Yes, I am a true blue TV geek. 😂

[summitsw]

Can anyone help me out here? I’ve been doing a rewatch and Rhoda’s apartment is driving me crazy, where is the bathroom? Why does she have everything crammed into the main room but doesn’t seem to use the ante room for anything? Why isn’t the bed up on the platform? It’s just such a badly designed space. 
 

And for all that everyone says Mary’s job was revolutionary in tv, I thought she had a weird hybrid job where she was supposed to be the associate producer, but Lou treats her as his secretary, getting him coffee, shopping for his wife, even as late as season 5 he has her looking for a plumber for him. I doubt very much he’d have treated a guy in that job the same way. And she never complained about having to do his crap. 

[chessiegal]

23 hours ago, summitsw said:

And for all that everyone says Mary’s job was revolutionary in tv, I thought she had a weird hybrid job where she was supposed to be the associate producer, but Lou treats her as his secretary, getting him coffee, shopping for his wife, even as late as season 5 he has her looking for a plumber for him. I doubt very much he’d have treated a guy in that job the same way. And she never complained about having to do his crap. 

You've got to remember the time period this was on TV - 1970-1977. I applaud the show for bringing up inequities women were subjected to at the time. The one example that sticks out to me is when Mary finds out she is making less money than her male predecessor. Lou says she is doing a better job than he did, but he was a man with a family to support and she was a single woman. End of discussion.

I had a job with a large company from 1974-1977, working in a technical position. I met plenty of resistance from men who didn't think a woman could possibly handle a job usually done by men. I still bristle today when I hear men refer to grown women as "girls". I often heard my boss on the phone telling a male peer that he would have "my girl" call "your girl", referring to their secretaries.

[Harry24]

4 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I still bristle today when I hear men refer to grown women as "girls".

I bristle hearing ANYONE refer to grown women as "girls."  Especially other "girls," to be honest.

[summitsw]

Quote

You've got to remember the time period this was on TV - 1970-1977. I applaud the show for bringing up inequities women were subjected to at the time. The one example that sticks out to me is when Mary finds out she is making less money than her male predecessor. Lou says she is doing a better job than he did, but he was a man with a family to support and she was a single woman. End of discussion.

I get the time period was different, but even with that, especially in the early seasons Mary didn’t seem to do any actual ‘producer’ type work, she just functioned as Lou’s assistant. Her refusal to call him anything but Mr Grant also grates. She’s far to deferential. I thought Rhoda had the better job to be honest. And it apparently paid better as well. 

[DXD526]

Quote

The one example that sticks out to me is when Mary finds out she is making less money than her male predecessor. Lou says she is doing a better job than he did, but he was a man with a family to support and she was a single woman. End of discussion.

IIRC, Mary wouldn't drop the issue and wound up getting her raise at the end of the episode.

True, she had kind of a weird hybrid job, but that may have been due more to it being a small station rather than her gender. Associate producers at WJM may have worn many hats. The only exception to that is Lou asking her to shop for him. I very much doubt he would have asked the same of a man.

[chessiegal]

20 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

IIRC, Mary wouldn't drop the issue and wound up getting her raise at the end of the episode.

True, but just the fact that Lou saw no problem with paying her less because she was a woman brings to the forefront that kind of thinking at that time. 

[txhorns79]

I am genuinely curious about Rhoda's quasi-studio apartment.  She seemingly had no kitchen, and it was entirely unclear to me where the bathroom could be.  It was almost like she just had a room in a boarding house, except it was clearly supposed to be an apartment.     

[Baby Button Eyes]

Maybe the 4th wall we never saw had a kitchenette panel or a door to a washroom.

[chessiegal]

We've seen Rhoda cooking on a hot plate.

What I didn't get about her apartment was that it seemed to be in an uninsulated attic. How would you keep that warm and cool?

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, Baby Button Eyes said:

Maybe the 4th wall we never saw had a kitchenette panel or a door to a washroom.

I don't know.  There was this episode where Rhoda was going to open a plant store (?) and the table is set up as though the fourth wall would not have a door on it. 

[Harry24]

6 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

There was this episode where Rhoda was going to open a plant store (?)

Oh, right.  She was considering naming it "Rhoda's Dendron."

This show was awesome.

[SnarkySheep]

On 11/5/2019 at 5:44 PM, txhorns79 said:

I am genuinely curious about Rhoda's quasi-studio apartment.  She seemingly had no kitchen, and it was entirely unclear to me where the bathroom could be.  It was almost like she just had a room in a boarding house, except it was clearly supposed to be an apartment.     

Honestly, the whole building confused me...from the outside in the opening credits, it seemed to be like a two- or three-family house. That would make sense, if Phyllis and her family lived downstairs, then Mary on the second floor, and finally Rhoda on the third floor/converted attic. But I do recall a time when Mary was taking out the trash or something, and referred to another tenant on the stairs.

Also, considering how huge Mary's living room was, how could there not have been any bedroom? You'd think that would have been a problem for people, especially as there was a decent sized kitchen and everything else. And what would the first floor layout have been, with a family of three?

Edited November 11, 2019 by SnarkySheep

[LemonSoda]

On 11/11/2019 at 6:54 PM, SnarkySheep said:

Honestly, the whole building confused me...from the outside in the opening credits, it seemed to be like a two- or three-family house. That would make sense, if Phyllis and her family lived downstairs, then Mary on the second floor, and finally Rhoda on the third floor/converted attic. But I do recall a time when Mary was taking out the trash or something, and referred to another tenant on the stairs.

Also, considering how huge Mary's living room was, how could there not have been any bedroom? You'd think that would have been a problem for people, especially as there was a decent sized kitchen and everything else. And what would the first floor layout have been, with a family of three?

I loved her apartment even as confusing as it was. I didn't understand the lack of a bedroom, sleeping on the pull out bed. But I loved that sunken living room, the shelves, the window. 

Ive always wanted to see a set floor plan of the building. 

The whole series is for sale on iTunes for $22.99 which is a great deal considering each season is usually $14.99-9.99. Green Acres entire series is currently $9.99. I don't work for apple but last time I posted about the series sale it was helpful to others so I'm posting again. 

[chessiegal]

That's a good price for the entire series. I don't get Decades anymore, so I can't watch it in syndication. The problem with syndication is that they cut scenes to make more room for commercials.

[LemonSoda]

It’s on sale again for $19.99 if anyone is interested. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 3/4/2020 at 12:34 PM, LemonSoda said:

It’s on sale again for $19.99 if anyone is interested. 

Yes, this just came to my attention while looking at iTunes the other day. Couldn't resist that price for the complete series.

So since then, we've been making our way through in chronological order, two episodes a night. We want to do it this way, even though not all the early episodes are gems! In fact, I'd say that in the first four episodes we've watched so far, the show is batting .500 at best. (The divorce club episode with Shelley Berman was truly painful, although there were a few chuckles.) Nevertheless it's of high interest to us to trace the evolution of the show--to watch the creators figure out what worked and didn't work, to watch the actors figure out their characters--and live it as people did when it was on the air. And the only way to do that is to start at the beginning and go one by one, taking the bitter with the sweet. We have complete confidence that it will be worth our time.

 

[LemonSoda]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:01 AM, Milburn Stone said:

Yes, this just came to my attention while looking at iTunes the other day. Couldn't resist that price for the complete series.

So since then, we've been making our way through in chronological order, two episodes a night. We want to do it this way, even though not all the early episodes are gems! In fact, I'd say that in the first four episodes we've watched so far, the show is batting .500 at best. (The divorce club episode with Shelley Berman was truly painful, although there were a few chuckles.) Nevertheless it's of high interest to us to trace the evolution of the show--to watch the creators figure out what worked and didn't work, to watch the actors figure out their characters--and live it as people did when it was on the air. And the only way to do that is to start at the beginning and go one by one, taking the bitter with the sweet. We have complete confidence that it will be worth our time.

 

It’s definitely worth the time. 

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, LemonSoda said:

It’s definitely worth the time. 

We were rewarded like crazy for our methodical "every episode, in order, no exceptions" viewing regime when we got to Episode 6 last night, the one that introduces Rhoda's mother. It wasn't just because of Nancy Walker. It was like you could see everyone begin to lock into their characters. 

We all know sitcom episodes can be aired in a different order than they were filmed, and it could be that Episode 6 was not actually the 6th one to be shot, but nevertheless the impression of "now they've got it" was there. In particular, Mary. In the first five episodes, Moore presented to various degrees that she was asking herself the question, "What kind of character does America want me to be? What will win the most hearts and minds and make me a great success on my own?" Especially because her post-Dick Van Dyke career had ranged from unimpressive to catastrophic. (The failed Broadway musicalization of Breakfast at Tiffany's representing the latter category.) Now, in Episode 6, it was like she said "to hell with what America wants me to be, to hell with what the suits at CBS want me to be, I'm just gonna be Mary Richards with everything I know how to be."

It kind of made sense on a calculated level as well, though. You could make the case that it was right for Mary Richards to not quite know who she was after first moving back to Minneapolis following a life upheaval, starting a brand new job in which she was insecure, etc. And that it would take her six weeks or so to feel comfortable in her new life. Nevertheless, I got the feeling that it was the actress who was at last feeling comfortable.

Edited March 8, 2020 by Milburn Stone

[LemonSoda]

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

It kind of made sense on a calculated level as well, though. You could make the case that it was right for Mary Richards to not quite know who she was after first moving back to Minneapolis following a life upheaval, starting a brand new job in which she was insecure, etc. And that it would take her six weeks or so to feel comfortable in her new life. Nevertheless, I got the feeling that it was the actress who was at last feeling comfortable.

I saw as a mix of everything. MTM versus CBS, society’s thoughts, type casting. MTM creating Mary Richards. The cast, writers discovering their chemistry, strengths.
Mary Richards was rediscovering herself. Who am I? The broken engagement, the move, the new job, the new home, new friends, new city to discover all left her in a bit of an identity mess. I got the feeling Mary Richards had always been so male identified it took a while to stand on her own to feet and see what she could do on her own. 

[Mystery]

The book "Mary and Lou and Rhoda and Ted" has lots of information about how the show started and changed, and how the producers went looking for women writers (some comedians and some women who worked for the studio in other capacities; two of their surnames, Nardo and Banta, would make it into "Taxi"). 

For instance, the audience for the first taping of the pilot *hated* the character of Rhoda. The script supervisor suggested that if they added a line to the script to show that Bess liked Rhoda, that would help the audience like her. And it worked. 

(I looked at the book to see if it had anything about Rhoda's apartment, but I didn't find it by flipping through. It does talk about Mary's apartment: "She'd have a hideaway bed, not having much of a choice in such a small apartment. A French armoire would show off her impeccable taste. A wooden M on her wall would signify that the place was hers, and only hers...") 

 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Mystery said:

The book "Mary and Lou and Rhoda and Ted" has lots of information about how the show started and changed, and how the producers went looking for women writers (some comedians and some women who worked for the studio in other capacities; two of their surnames, Nardo and Banta, would make it into "Taxi"). 

For instance, the audience for the first taping of the pilot *hated* the character of Rhoda. The script supervisor suggested that if they added a line to the script to show that Bess liked Rhoda, that would help the audience like her. And it worked. 

(I looked at the book to see if it had anything about Rhoda's apartment, but I didn't find it by flipping through. It does talk about Mary's apartment: "She'd have a hideaway bed, not having much of a choice in such a small apartment. A French armoire would show off her impeccable taste. A wooden M on her wall would signify that the place was hers, and only hers...") 

 

Wow, I'm surprised the audience hated Rhoda and that it just took a line about Bess for them to like her.

[Mystery]

It's odd, isn't it?