The Mary Tyler Moore Show - General Discussion

[JAYJAY1979]

I always assumed Rhoda had been overweight as a kid..and had managed to lose the weight as she hit adulthood.

Usually if one struggled with weight growing up, they still view themselves through that lens even after losing weight.  I think in season 3, she finally saw herself as being thin.

[DoctorAtomic]

There's a Mary and Rhoda tv movie set in 2000. Anyone watch it? 

[txhorns79]

21 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

There's a Mary and Rhoda tv movie set in 2000. Anyone watch it? 

It's not great.  They still have a nice chemistry, but the storyline is kind of meh, and it feels almost as though no one is quite sure why they are revisiting these two characters. 

[DoctorAtomic]

It was not much to do with anything about the show. 

[SusanM]

14 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

It was not much to do with anything about the show. 

I saw it years ago and the only thing I really remember is that they didn't mention "what ever happened" to any of the other characters from the original show.  If they someone please refresh my memory as that's always bugged me!

[Egg McMuffin]

You’re right. It wasn’t supposed to serve as a reunion movie, but instead was a back-door pilot for a new series, focusing on Mary, Rhoda, and their daughters. Originally ABC commissioned a series but it wound up being a two-hour movie. My guess is that they didn’t love where the scripts were going and preferred to burn off the commitment to Moore and Harper as a movie.

[DoctorAtomic]

Charlie Day had a bit part in it! 

Rhoda did have a crack at the dinner parties though. 

Other than that, you couldn't tell it was about the show. 

The head of the news channel saw awful. 

[LemonSoda]

I remember having such high hopes for the movie and it was meh. I also remember being disappointed by a particular storyline that seemed too out of character for both women 

[DoctorAtomic]

Funny, the head of the news channel is on Curb as a Hulu exec. 

[Baby Button Eyes]

I’m getting the news Betty White has passed away this morning. RIP, I was really hoping she would make it to 2022 for her 100th birthday and also she we wouldn’t lose our last cast member from this legendary show this year. This year we lost Cloris, Gavin and Ed and now the last day of the year, Betty. 
 

I hope the cast is celebrating their best New Years Eve party all together again in the cosmos tonight. Betty had a fantastic life and thanks for the all the laughs she gave us for more than half a century!

Edited December 31, 2021 by Baby Button Eyes
Cloris, not Clovis.

[andromeda331]

I really wasn't expecting it. Betty made it this long and still working I just assumed she'd be around a few more years. That really stinks.

[LemonSoda]

4 hours ago, Baby Button Eyes said:

I hope the cast is celebrating their best New Years Eve party all together again in the cosmos tonight. Betty had a fantastic life and thanks for the all the laughs she gave us for more than half a century!

This was my first thought then I realized they’d all have to wait at least a few days to get her attention away from her husband. I know she has missed him so much. 
 

2 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I really wasn't expecting it. Betty made it this long and still working I just assumed she'd be around a few more years. That really stinks.

Me too. Me too. I was hoping for 100 and a few more years.

[Blergh]

I think it's safe to say that, had Miss White not heeded the call for 'a Betty White-type' when they were casting for Sue Ann Nivens (and had NOT made the part such a vital part of the show), it's very likely that she'd have remained a dainty vanilla joke barely acknowledged beyond being Allen Ludden's widow with few folks under 60 remembering or caring about her  much less lauding her life and career in 2021 on the eve of her 100th Birthday. Not only do I believe that Sue Ann helped launch Miss White's career into the stratosphere and never let it land but I think it's possible she may have even helped add a few extra decades no one would have anticipated in 1973 when 'The Lars Affair' brought Sue Ann to life! 

[LemonSoda]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

I think it's safe to say that, had Miss White not heeded the call for 'a Betty White-type' when they were casting for Sue Ann Nivens (and had NOT made the part such a vital part of the show), it's very likely that she'd have remained a dainty vanilla joke barely acknowledged beyond being Allen Ludden's widow with few folks under 60 remembering or caring about her  much less lauding her life and career in 2021 on the eve of her 100th Birthday. Not only do I believe that Sue Ann helped launch Miss White's career into the stratosphere and never let it land but I think it's possible she may have even helped add a few extra decades no one would have anticipated in 1973 when 'The Lars Affair' brought Sue Ann to life! 

I used to have a magazine about the show. It was one of those special edition things full of photos, a few stories. Betty White said nearly the same thing, that she felt it added longevity to her career and many other opportunities. 
Editing to add that she also said the fact she knew she was very lucky, that many of her peers faded in to small Grandma roles here and there while she continued to flourish as she got older. She acknowledged that which I found sweet. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by LemonSoda

[shlbycindyk]

I loved all of the characters portrayed by Betty White but, Sue Ann Nivens will always be my favorite. Anybody up for a little Veal Prince Orloff? 

[DoctorAtomic]

Murray plopping her on the cake is arguably the best sight gag in tv history.

[JAYJAY1979]

I saw Betty White as Rose on GG first and couldn't believe she'd played a Blanche like character.  And I think it was good the parts were switched. 

While she was funny as Sue Ann, she was not likable at all.  Rose was my favorite role of hers.

[annzeepark914]

21 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

I saw Betty White as Rose on GG first and couldn't believe she'd played a Blanche like character.  And I think it was good the parts were switched. 

While she was funny as Sue Ann, she was not likable at all.  Rose was my favorite role of hers.

My feelings are the opposite. The writing on the MTM show was excellent...maybe the best, IMO  (until Cheers & then Seinfeld came along). Sue Ann would've been despised in real life, probably. But in a sitcom comedy? She was gold!  Her bed with the recorded music? Her knee slamming the wall oven door on the set of her cooking show? Gold!

[Sarahsmile416]

On 12/31/2021 at 2:55 PM, Baby Button Eyes said:

I’m getting the news Betty White has passed away this morning. RIP, I was really hoping she would make it to 2022 for her 100th birthday and also she we wouldn’t lose our last cast member from this legendary show this year. This year we lost Cloris, Gavin and Ed and now the last day of the year, Betty. 
 

I hope the cast is celebrating their best New Years Eve party all together again in the cosmos tonight. Betty had a fantastic life and thanks for the all the laughs she gave us for more than half a century!

Assuming Mary isn’t the one throwing it 😉

[Milburn Stone]

In our chronological "retrospective" of the entire show, last night we reached Season 7 Episode 5, where Ted has a heart attack and learns to stop and smell the roses, and then Mary, Lou, and Murray learn to appreciate the fleeting beauty of a sunset for the first time. I can't remember the series finale now (it's been decades since I saw it, and we're still twenty or so episodes away), but for my money, it will have to go a long way to beat this one as a glorious elegy to the series. I wouldn't even be surprised if it was originally written to be the series finale. It seems to be saying, "Yes, like the sunset, this series was a beautiful moment in time, and like the sunset, and like all things, it must end, but that's OK."

[chessiegal]

Interesting observation @Milburn Stone. I'm so ignorant about how tv shows are made, I didn't realize until this year that episodes of shows don't always air in the order in which they are shot.

[Milburn Stone]

40 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Interesting observation @Milburn Stone. I'm so ignorant about how tv shows are made, I didn't realize until this year that episodes of shows don't always air in the order in which they are shot.

Just to be clear, Chessie, I don't have reason to believe in this case that episodes were shown out of shooting order, rather that S7E5 could have been a fitting finale to the series if they had wanted it to be, and that maybe, at first, they did want it to be (before deciding differently). I am certain that the reality of the end being near was in the writers' minds as they shaped this episode, and at the very least they grew to consider it a pre-finale finale.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Milburn Stone

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

In our chronological "retrospective" of the entire show, last night we reached Season 7 Episode 5, where Ted has a heart attack and learns to stop and smell the roses, and then Mary, Lou, and Murray learn to appreciate the fleeting beauty of a sunset for the first time. I can't remember the series finale now (it's been decades since I saw it, and we're still twenty or so episodes away), but for my money, it will have to go a long way to beat this one as a glorious elegy to the series. I wouldn't even be surprised if it was originally written to be the series finale. It seems to be saying, "Yes, like the sunset, this series was a beautiful moment in time, and like the sunset, and like all things, it must end, but that's OK."

Nice theory. Interesting,too, that the way its blocked, the MJM crew manage to view it via The Fourth Wall (IOW where the audience is supposed to be viewing them ) so, in a way, they're actually equating the audience with the sunset! 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Blergh

[Fool to cry]

My favorite Lou Grant moment is from "Ted Baxter's Famous Broadcasters School". Ted gets conned into starting a school for newscasters but doesn't have a faculty. Mary suggests that the WJM gang could be teachers and Lou fake excitedly goes "We can put on a big show! Mary can make the costumes, Murray can write the script and I'll ask my father if we could build a stage in our barn!" Now when I first saw this episode as a teenager I don't think I heard of those old Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland movies like "Babes in Arms" that this was referencing but I had seen the trope in other places that I got the joke!

Edited January 4, 2022 by Fool to cry

[Blergh]

40 minutes ago, Fool to cry said:

My favorite Lou Grant moment is from "Ted Baxter's Famous Broadcasters School". Ted gets conned into starting a school for newscasters but doesn't have a faculty. Mary suggests that the WJM gang could be teachers and Lou fake excitedly goes "We can put on a big show! Mary can make the costumes, Murray can write the script and I'll ask my father if we could build a stage in our barn!" Now when I first saw this episode as a teenager I don't think I heard of those old Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland movies like "Babes in Arms" that this was referencing but I had seen the trope in other places that I got the joke!

The late Ed Asner's comedic sarcasm/fake enthusiasm was unparalleled and sometimes even more entertaining than the outright jokes of the script. Seriously, he could get more laughs from a single raised eyebrow/jaundiced look than most entertainers could have hoped for getting pies in the face/ telling jokes! 

[Blergh]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:58 PM, DoctorAtomic said:

There's a Mary and Rhoda tv movie set in 2000. Anyone watch it? 

Yep! What can one say about a movie in which Rhoda's grown daughter was born and raised in Paris and only came to NYC for college after her parents split- yet didn't  have even the slightest French accent nor attempted to speak any French words or phrases! Come ON! Oh, no mention of Ida whatsoever? IMO, simply best forgotten! 

[Fool to cry]

 

 

 

[Blergh]

Who'd have imagined that Mr. Curtis who wrote and performed the show's iconic theme also had toured with Buddy Holly and Elvis as well as had written "I Fought the Law (and the Law Won)"? He's made it after all, too! 

[mmecorday]

Quote

Murray plopping her on the cake is arguably the best sight gag in tv history.

This episode was on yesterday. In an interview, Betty said that even though she showered after shooting this scene, her dog still followed her around because she smelled like cake.

[Fool to cry]

My favorite Ted line is from "Mary Moves Out" and he doesn't want Georgette to vacation in Rome:

"I know what they do all day in Rome...orgies...with whips and midgets!"

 

[chessiegal]

The MeTV salute to Betty White yesterday with 4 shows reminded me of what a good show this is. The strength of the ensemble was really highlighted by how much air- time the other characters got in each episode. I wish they hadn't taken Decades out of my cable market. I enjoyed watching MTM on Decades - I assume they are still airing it.

[Blergh]

13 hours ago, mmecorday said:

This episode was on yesterday. In an interview, Betty said that even though she showered after shooting this scene, her dog still followed her around because she smelled like cake.

She also said that while Mr. MacLeod was carrying her, her back hurt but she came up with straddling the cake like a horse on the spot. She added that she knew that she had to get it right because there was only ONE cake (and, of course, the element of surprise would have been lost to the studio audience had they had to do a retake). Well,   those many hours of training via having done live television  sure paid off for Miss White and the rest of us! 

[Fool to cry]

Co-creator Allan Burns talks about the opening theme and credits.

https://youtu.be/C7xRN2-U-w0

When they heard Sonny Curtis play "Love is All Around" for the first time, they loved it immediately and hired him. For the opening credits they hired the man who made the memorable and exciting opening to "Hawaii Five O" Iranian born director Reza S. Badayi. 

Reza talks about filming the opening with Mary and why he wanted her to throw the hat in the air:

https://youtu.be/4dm5GVWe5xE

Edited January 15, 2022 by Fool to cry

[DoctorAtomic]

Has anyone been to the statue of Mary in Minneapolis? I was there for a conference and got a picture. 

[ljenkins782]

On 1/10/2022 at 2:30 PM, chessiegal said:

The MeTV salute to Betty White yesterday with 4 shows reminded me of what a good show this is. The strength of the ensemble was really highlighted by how much air- time the other characters got in each episode. I wish they hadn't taken Decades out of my cable market. I enjoyed watching MTM on Decades - I assume they are still airing it.

Betty White's passing finally motivated me to actually watch the show, I'd seen episodes here and there over the years, but both Hulu and the Pluto channel have the whole series, so I'm watching it. It's so well done and I adore the theme song.

Quote

 

My feelings are the opposite. The writing on the MTM show was excellent...maybe the best, IMO  (until Cheers & then Seinfeld came along). Sue Ann would've been despised in real life, probably. But in a sitcom comedy? She was gold!  Her bed with the recorded music? Her knee slamming the wall oven door on the set of her cooking show? Gold!

 

I've only seen one episode with Sue Ann in her kitchen so far, but I noticed the knee thing. Was that a recurring gag then? I thought it was hilariously unfeminine the way she hitched her knee up in that frilly dress and made for a great sight gag.

[Egg McMuffin]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:59 AM, Fool to cry said:

Co-creator Allan Burns talks about the opening theme and credits.

https://youtu.be/C7xRN2-U-w0

When they heard Sonny Curtis play "Love is All Around" for the first time, they loved it immediately and hired him. For the opening credits they hired the man who made the memorable and exciting opening to "Hawaii Five O" Iranian born director Reza S. Badayi. 

Reza talks about filming the opening with Mary and why he wanted her to throw the hat in the air:

https://youtu.be/4dm5GVWe5xE

I still love the moment in the closing credits of “Rhoda” where she tries to do the Mary hat toss in the middle of Times Square and mistakenly drops the hat instead.

[cleo]

@Ijenkins782 I believe the knee slamming the oven shut was totally ad libbed by Betty. The script called for her to close the door bur her hands were full so she just used her knee!

Edited January 18, 2022 by cleo

[txhorns79]

3 hours ago, Egg McMuffin said:

I still love the moment in the closing credits of “Rhoda” where she tries to do the Mary hat toss in the middle of Times Square and mistakenly drops the hat instead.

I love that moment.  It's a perfect encapsulation of Rhoda. 

 

3 hours ago, cleo said:

I believe the knee slamming the oven shut was totally ad libbed by Betty. The script called for her to close the door bur her hands were full so she just used her knee!

I think you are right.  If you look at Cloris Leachman in the scene, she initially seems unsure of how to react and might be stifling a laugh.

[LexieLily]

I'm doing a(nother) binge-watch of the series and recently came across an episode from season five-ish where Murray wanted a son and he and Marie ended up adopting a six/seven year old boy from China. I don't remember him ever being mentioned after that. Did he get Chuck Cunningham'd?

That was also the episode where Ted suggested that Murray slip something in Marie's drink if she kept saying no to having a fourth baby. 

[HyeChaps]

Didn't he show up at Mary's place for Ted's wedding all dirty from his son's soccer game?

[Harry24]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:33 AM, LexieLily said:

I'm doing a(nother) binge-watch of the series and recently came across an episode from season five-ish where Murray wanted a son and he and Marie ended up adopting a six/seven year old boy from China. I don't remember him ever being mentioned after that. Did he get Chuck Cunningham'd?

That was also the episode where Ted suggested that Murray slip something in Marie's drink if she kept saying no to having a fourth baby. 

Li Chin.  He was so handsome and charming.  Supposedly from Vietnam.*

I think we only “met” one of Murray’s kids, the daughter Bonnie who was such a fuck-up as an intern at the office.

Li Chin was mentioned in the episode where Murray thinks he’s finally going to win a Teddy, and at the awards ceremony he’s so nervous he can’t remember his kids’ names, including “that one we adopted.”  Then when he loses, he congratulates the winner as he passes, turns his head to the camera and says hi to all the kids as he’s shaking the winner’s hand.

PLEASE don’t ask me how I remember all this.  I have no idea.

*I remember how charmed/moved Mary was when Li Chin said hello and bowed to her.  I always felt MTM had a real soft spot for kids, and at that moment it looked like MTM peeked through the character.  I remember a couple of spots in the Dick Van Dyke Show where Laura laughed really hard at something Ritchie did, and it was a smile and laugh we never saw from her before.  Again, I had the feeling MTM was showing through.  Sweet.

[Miss Anne Thrope]

IIRC, Helen Hunt showed up as one of Murray's kids too.  

[LexieLily]

Getting to the end of season seven and coming up to the episodes where Lou and Mary go out on a date and then the series finale, both of which I don't remember seeing before in reruns. Was it just me or were they running out of ideas in the back half of the season? Ted and Georgette hosting a talk show? Mary dating Murray's father?

[Egg McMuffin]

On 1/26/2022 at 12:33 AM, LexieLily said:

I'm doing a(nother) binge-watch of the series and recently came across an episode from season five-ish where Murray wanted a son and he and Marie ended up adopting a six/seven year old boy from China.

Also, Ted and Georgette adopted Oliver from The Brady Bunch. That was nice of them.

[DoctorAtomic]

Season 7 was uneven overall. It is hard to not run out of ideas with that many episodes. 

[Blergh]

12 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Getting to the end of season seven and coming up to the episodes where Lou and Mary go out on a date and then the series finale, both of which I don't remember seeing before in reruns. Was it just me or were they running out of ideas in the back half of the season? Ted and Georgette hosting a talk show? Mary dating Murray's father?

Well, I liked that they actually were willing to explore the possibility of whether Mary and Lou's bond might have gone beyond that of close working colleagues who more or less viewed themselves as de facto father-and-daughter with Lou initially dissing himself that Mary could have been interested in him in a non-platonic means, then them attempting said date (that SHE initiated), before realizing that it was best to stay close working friends. Now, of course, whether they ever decided to meet up non-platonically  AFTER they lost their WJM jobs and got scattered is something they left for the viewers' imagination but I like that the show had confidence to say that being close platonic friends working together on a show was QUITE ENOUGH! 

[LexieLily]

10 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Well, I liked that they actually were willing to explore the possibility of whether Mary and Lou's bond might have gone beyond that of close working colleagues who more or less viewed themselves as de facto father-and-daughter with Lou initially dissing himself that Mary could have been interested in him in a non-platonic means, then them attempting said date (that SHE initiated), before realizing that it was best to stay close working friends. Now, of course, whether they ever decided to meet up non-platonically  AFTER they lost their WJM jobs and got scattered is something they left for the viewers' imagination but I like that the show had confidence to say that being close platonic friends working together on a show was QUITE ENOUGH! 

I should have separated my two sentences/ideas when I wrote my post, about me getting to the end of episodes to watch and them running out of ideas. I haven't seen that episode yet, like I said, but Mary/Lou could have worked. 

[DoctorAtomic]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

I like that the show had confidence to say that being close platonic friends working together on a show was QUITE ENOUGH!

I don't think they needed to do an episode about it though. It seemed quite clear from the sum total of the show, and it detracted from the entire premise that a single woman can have a job and casually date in the 70s. 

[DanaK]

I’m still doing my rewatch, still in Season 5 and still not remembering watching most of these episodes the first time. Yesterday I watched the Season 5 episode “An Affair to Forget”, where Ted spreads rumors that he and Mary were having an affair. I can’t tell you how uncomfortable it was to watch this through a current day lens, with Ted sexually harassing Mary and the studio audience (and maybe the laugh track) laughing at everything and Mary’s colleagues not taking her distress seriously. I felt so bad near the end where she broke down in the newsroom crying that it was all a lie and no one believed her. At least Ted finally owned up to the truth to everyone. I would not recommend this episode for the discomfort alone

[Blergh]

Let's not forget the recently deceased Pat Carroll's one shot as Mary's sarcastic hospital roomie Loretta in 'Hi' (Season One,1970)! Upon seeing Mary in the short nightie that Rhoda had packed for her (in order for Mary to attract single doctors' attention), Loretta dismissed Mary as being a 'go-go dancer'! LOL

Yes, even by 1970, go-go dancers were already going out of fashion but it was still funny to think that anyone would have considered Mary Richards to have been one!