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S17.E20: Fashionable Crimes

WendyCR72

By WendyCR72
in Law & Order: SVU

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Desperately Random

Desperately Random

Fairly good episode. I liked that it focused on a sex crime and that the entire squad was involved. We got to see Barba doing his best with a reluctant witness and minimal evidence. And we got to hear him say "pecker". LOL.  I rewound that a couple of times just for the look on his face as he says it. I love Barba more every episode.  So glad the abusive boyfriend/manager ended up with a gun charge. I hope the girlfriend has the strength to cut him loose but I kind of doubt it. Either she'll stick with him or she'll find another low-life to take his place.

Fisher Stevens is not aging well. His tiny head on top of his stalk neck was distracting. He does play a good sleazebag though and I was kind of sorry he was put out of his misery so quickly after the first shot. Guy deserves to suffer longer.  I admit I expected the killer to be one of his former victims. The crotch shot is usually done by someone who has suffered from sexual abuse/assault.

Loved seeing Munch again! Wish he had been on more but I'll take what I can get. I really liked the last scene with him, Olivia and Noah. Was great to see Olivia and John happy and content with how their lives have turned out. I am also liking Olivia's scenes with Noah. Now that the kid isn't in danger every other week it's nice to see Olivia get some happiness. And the kid is a cutie.

  • Love 5
Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

I'm so impressed with this show, and the people behind it, and the people who write for it, calling out Terry Richardson like this.  I'm incredibly disheartened to see celebrities who can make a difference like Jennifer Aniston or Kate Hudson work with him.  There is no feasible way TR could possibly be more powerful than THEY are so how can they stoop so low as to work with such trash?  Do they not have a conscience?

I pay so much attention to fashion that it always (very sadly) seemed like a niche/fringe issue only the really fashion obsessed were aware of.

For those who many not know about the accusations against TR just Google.....  my respect for this show has climbed immensely.  

I feel like Fisher Stevens has had the lollipop head thing going for awhile, no?

Here's model Lakshmi Menon's response to whether she does nudes or not:

ZHhdy29.gif

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Love 2
Lizzing

Lizzing

I thought this episode wasn't half bad.  It was actually about a sex crime, Noah wasn't in trouble, Liv wasn't problem drinking, and Barba didn't get pissy with Carisi.  Plus, any time Fin and Munch are together, it's great.  Best of all I loved that Fischer Stevens and Griffin Dunne were cast as brothers.  It's not that they look alike, but for some reason, I tend to confuse their past characters on CI...remembering who played which perv. I think they both play super shady and skeevy dudes really well.

  • Love 7
Princess Lucky

Princess Lucky

Well this was boring.

Any time Dodds Jr. is onscreen too much I drift off. Also, the mention of his drug-addicted brother? Tragic backstory retconned 3 episodes from the finale? RIP, Dodds Jr.

Munch was barely there. No introduction scene, no "I'm gonna call Munch". He just showed up. I was hoping for something similar to the Cragen episode (which was so sweet) but no such luck.

The Barba/Benson thing is forgotten or resolved or whatever, I guess. Cool. Not like they made a big deal out of it or anything.

I love Griffin Dunne and he had some nice moments, at least. And the boyfriend was hilarious. BE THAT AS IT MAY. The actor had fun with it.

I just felt this episode was poorly written, though. Not the entire episode. The dialogue was solid and the plot was solid too, the overall idea and the outcome. But the transition from scene to scene was always a mess, plus people were there and then not there with no explanation. Like, Carisi is with Benson and Rollins and their kids, then he doesn't follow them to the hospital. Or, like I said, Munch just shows up to interview a witness with no intro, and then half an episode later he's at the precinct with Dodds Jr (whom he's never met that we know of) and they're all just talking. And in the end, when Benson asks Dodds about his brother again, to confirm it was true, Rollins, Barba and Carisi are standing right behind them, listening. But the camera doesn't cut to them again, even though they're right there, because they never heard Dodds' story. So even though there's 3 more people there, the shots alternate between Benson and Dodds (and Andy Karl gets to do some real acting for all of 2 seconds!). We could have at least gotten a "wtf" look between the others.

At least we got that opening scene with Carisi and his girls and their kids. I love that they hang out with him off the clock. He cooks dinner for them (for the group or for Amanda only) and they invite him out to outings with their kids. That's sweet. Carisi is such a nice guy and it's good to see him being part of the family. Plus, the way Benson and Rollins were looking at him playing with Noah? Aw. You can see Benson has real affection for him, I hesitate to say "motherly" but something like that. And Rollins has affection for him as well, though that's probably less pure. And he's a photographer too? I love him.

  • Love 2
fastiller

fastiller

9 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

So funny, too, when you consider just how long John Munch has been around! He was a character even before L&O: SVU (on Homicide: Life On The Street)! So it is amusing to see the L&O/HLOTS crossovers and/or actors who would be a part of the L&O world guest star on HLOTS.

See? A TV World without Det. John Munch is unfathomable!

MUNCH!!!  He's also been on The Simpsons & The X-Files and many, many other shows (The Muppets, in felt-form). His IMDb character page is long enough that it looks like an actor's page.  

13 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

I love Griffin Dunne and he had some nice moments, at least. And the boyfriend was hilarious. BE THAT AS IT MAY. The actor had fun with it.

I've only ever seen Tom Pelphry in one other role: Kurt Bunker on Banshee, a repentant white supremacist-turned-sheriff's deputy.  He plays that role with such quite restraint (like a very tightly wound wire, ready to spring) that this OTT performance in this episode was nice.

And, Ms. Blue Jay, thank's for the reminder on Terry Richardson's name.  All through the episode I was trying to remember the real life person that Steven's character was modeled on.

  • Love 4
sockii

sockii

After all of that hype I really, really was expecting more Munch :( I was so disappointed with how little we got, although I did like how it was basically Fin coordinating with bringing Munch into the case, and having him slip into things as if it were no big deal. (I would have been more annoyed if they made it seem like he had no contact with anyone at the old unit after retiring, after all, isn't he supposed to be working at the DA's office now as a Special Investigator?) Still...so badly wanted at least one good bit of banter between Munch & Fin like the old days.

But the babysitting scene was too adorable for words. I've sort of head-canoned for ages that Munch would absolutely want to spend time with Noah, teaching him all of his conspiracy theories, so I genuinely squealed in delight to have that confirmed.

  • Love 5
wknt3

wknt3

The Good:
Another episode that was centered on an actual sexually based offense being investigated by the whole squad. It's been a welcome trend this season.
Great acting from the guest stars.
Barba!
Fin and Munch.
The acting in the last scene. Heck the writing too. Anytime you have a Noah scene I actually like you have to be doing something right.

The Bad:
Once again Benson does everything. She catches cases. She interviews suspects. She consults with the DA over trial strategy. I'm halfway surprised she's not the one in law school so next season she can prosecute cases too when Barba has the episode off. I know I'm a broken record here, but why promote her if you're not going to change her role? Especially when it would be so much easier to keep the Lt. as the recurring/guest star role and doing what the CO has always done. Plus if you're going to have Liv in the field for the whole case why not in the one place where it actually makes sense - looking for a suspect in the middle of a crowded high profile event?
The carousel scene was a bit too much.
Not nearly enough Munch. No Carisi-Munch extended comic relief. And no matter how well done it was they still skimped on Munch with the squad to give us a big scene with Munch telling Benson what a special snowflake she is.

Overall this was a solid episode that could have been a great one with just a little tweaking.

  • Love 5
candall

candall

My favorite five seconds in any Law & Order, for the 95 years I've been watching, is when the imperious person snoots off "YOU can't go in there!  He's working/in a meeting/with a client and cannotbedisturbed."  And then the team just blows on past.  This epi had two of those scenes, so yay.

 

I did not like that the victim's smile on the conveniently captured camera footage of the murder IMMEDIATELY spelled out "My brother shot me."  It makes more sense that he'd be expressing fake happiness to see the Sandrine Holt character than that he'd get a big grin on his face for the bro he just saw five minutes ago.  Or maybe for one of those half-naked models wandering out for a smoke and a career-boosting rape.

C'mon writers, at least cast me a telltale shadow or zoom in on a car window reflection or something.

 

Man, Fisher Stevens just gets skeevier with age, doesn't he?  He's about five years away from Gollum.

  • Love 8
Jaded

Jaded

54 minutes ago, candall said:

Man, Fisher Stevens just gets skeevier with age, doesn't he?  He's about five years away from Gollum.

I was surprised to see he was only 52 when I went to look up his age. He looks older then early 50's to me. His character definitely creeped me out. When I was looking at his IMDB page there were older pics of him and Griffin Dunne which seemed interesting considering in this episode they played brothers.

  • Love 2
candall

candall

(edited)
13 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I was surprised to see he was only 52 when I went to look up his age. He looks older then early 50's to me. His character definitely creeped me out. When I was looking at his IMDB page there were older pics of him and Griffin Dunne which seemed interesting considering in this episode they played brothers.

I have a firmly ingrained negative impression of him and I think it's from some vague recollection that his long relationship with Michelle Pfeiffer ended because he mistreated her.

Edited by candall
  • Love 1
Racj82

Racj82

4 hours ago, RafaelBarbas said:

To me, Barba getting pissy with Carisi is the only part that makes up for Carisi being onscreen at all!

Are you trying to imply you don't like Carisi? I honestly don't understand those words at this point.

11 minutes ago, Jaded said:

I thought he looked really frail too. It made me worried and sad. 

Yeah and I'm getting at the point where is hard to watch significantly older actors I grew up with or are fans of on TV. Not that it isn't there right. I just worry that we will lose them soon. I worry for pops on the Goldberg's every week. I don't want him to pass away while the show is going on. Would be too sad. Silly worry but it's still there.

  • Love 5
Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

Thanks for everyone pointing out Griffin Dunne.

I always seem to remember Fisher Stevens, being a huge fan of both Friends and LOST.  Remember him as the skeevy psychologist who dated Phoebe on Friends?  Very classic episode, though I guess all those episodes are classics at this point!  But it's INCREDIBLY classic, because they used his character as a way to parody what all of the critics of Friends were actually saying back then!  LOL!  This is back in Season 1, when I guess the show was a cultural phenomenon right out of the gate.   Also, he was Minkowski on LOST!  I TOTALLY forgot about his relationship with Michelle Pfieffer.  I think that makes the Phoebe thing all the funnier.

But Griffin Dunne, I never knew much about him.  I love his name though. 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
  • Love 1
sockii

sockii

(edited)
24 minutes ago, Risky Librarian said:

The adorable "Bye Munch," the talk about there being more to life than SVU, the long, lingering camera pan as Belzer walked out the door...they're...they're not gonna...?

I am not okay with that. :(

I'm actually more okay if this is the last we see of Munch on SVU than I was after the actual retirement episode, because that last scene of him leaving his desk in "Wonderland Story" wrecks me it's so sad, or in "Spring Awakening" as much as I enjoyed his scene with Nick in that. Because it made me happy here to see that he's apparently content with his life now, whatever that may involve (though I wish we had some hints of that, then again I don't trust these writers for much, so...better to leave it vague perhaps?)

I don't know, I have a LOT of Munch feels because he's my favorite character, was so all the way back to Homicide. I miss him terribly on the show regularly but I'll take this happy/sad goodbye over the previous ones we've gotten. And those both seemed pretty final at the time, so maybe there's still hope for another (better?) appearance in the future, especially with a new crew running things?

Edited by sockii
  • Love 5
AntiBeeSpray

AntiBeeSpray

4 hours ago, sockii said:

After all of that hype I really, really was expecting more Munch :( I was so disappointed with how little we got, although I did like how it was basically Fin coordinating with bringing Munch into the case, and having him slip into things as if it were no big deal. (I would have been more annoyed if they made it seem like he had no contact with anyone at the old unit after retiring, after all, isn't he supposed to be working at the DA's office now as a Special Investigator?) Still...so badly wanted at least one good bit of banter between Munch & Fin like the old days.

But the babysitting scene was too adorable for words. I've sort of head-canoned for ages that Munch would absolutely want to spend time with Noah, teaching him all of his conspiracy theories, so I genuinely squealed in delight to have that confirmed.

I wanted to see some banter between him and Fin too! Dang it.

Yes it was :).

My mom was a bit worried about Munch/Richard Belzer. She thought he was really, really thin and had a feeling about it. I hope he's ok too. 2016 can stay away plz thx.

  • Love 3
Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

26 minutes ago, fastiller said:

I recommend his father's (Dominick) articles for Vanity Fair.  Here's an archve of some of them.  He wrote a great piece about the trial of his daughter's (Dominique) killer.  Dominique was in Poltergeist.

Thanks!  I actually just bought a bunch of his books after absolutely LOVING American Crime Story: The People vs OJ Simpson.  They had an actor portraying Dominick Dunne there too.

  • Love 2
Princess Lucky

Princess Lucky

1 hour ago, sockii said:

I would be all on board a spin-off about Munch's day care center, where he obviously babysits Noah and Jesse and all the other precinct kids while teaching them the truth about JFK, the moon landing and protecting your civil liberties.

I would love that and I would also recommend hiring Carisi as a part-time sitter for those times Munch is busy enjoying life.

3 hours ago, candall said:

I did not like that the victim's smile on the conveniently captured camera footage of the murder IMMEDIATELY spelled out "My brother shot me."  It makes more sense that he'd be expressing fake happiness to see the Sandrine Holt character than that he'd get a big grin on his face for the bro he just saw five minutes ago.  Or maybe for one of those half-naked models wandering out for a smoke and a career-boosting rape.

C'mon writers, at least cast me a telltale shadow or zoom in on a car window reflection or something.

Right? And we're supposed to trust Dodds' instinct? That's the proof? When I saw that smile I thought for sure he was looking at a woman (and speaking of Sandrine Holt, she was great but she dropped off the episode, yet another example of no pay-off). And I thought that was confirmed by the shot in the nards (thank you @Sarah D. Bunting). That seemed like something a victim would do for revenge, not the guy's brother. 

Speaking of the recap, this was perfect:

Quote

Carisi is adding photography to his hobbies list along with cooking and adorbling.

Carisi is the best.

  • Love 7
slowpoked

slowpoked

14 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm so impressed with this show, and the people behind it, and the people who write for it, calling out Terry Richardson like this.  I'm incredibly disheartened to see celebrities who can make a difference like Jennifer Aniston or Kate Hudson work with him.  There is no feasible way TR could possibly be more powerful than THEY are so how can they stoop so low as to work with such trash?  Do they not have a conscience?

 

But that's how predators get away with these things right? They build enough "reputation" with the important people, and they prey on the weak and helpless. The celebs that work with him probably still works with him because they think, well, the allegations may not be true because it didn't happen to them. But these predators are smart enough to know not to prey on a Jennifer Aniston, or a Miley Cyrus, etc. They know they can only prey on Sally from Ohio because that's how they get away with it and still be on the top of their game. They have enough ammo to use the classic "Who would believe you?" defense because they have built enough goodwill with the people that matter.

Ugh, it kills me that these things still happen. I think sexual assault in the fashion industry is probably one of the more underreported statistics in sexual assault cases as a whole just because of this whole power tripping thing. 

  • Love 5
WendyCR72

WendyCR72

  • Author

On another note, leave it to the wunderkinds at NBC to put this show on a 5-week break, barely promote the show, and then try to shoehorn Munch in to try and gain some traction.

Was shocked when I saw the ratings for this.  :-(  With a show this old, NBC either needs to go back to the more traditional airings or forget sweeps and plow through. Absence clearly did not make the audience's hearts grow fonder.

I'm sad that - because Munch was on - this was so low this week. On the bright side, maybe folks know it is back now.

slowpoked

slowpoked

2 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

slowpoked, it still makes me sick that Jennifer Aniston / Kate Hudson / literally any celebrity would work with him who does NOT need his 'connections' at all.  I still stand by that statement.  Just because TR doesn't do anything to them doesn't make it any more acceptable to me that they would work with him.

Oh, I totally agree with you. I would be leery working with a person who has a reputation like that even if not brought to court and/or haven't been convicted, even I knew he wouldn't do it to me because I'm an A-list celebrity. But that's just me. I always hope these scumbags will eventually get what they deserve.

  • Love 2
GarnetGirl

GarnetGirl

I liked Barba's Vonnegut reference and how Griffin Dunne and Fisher Stevens seemed like real brothers, but overall this episode had more disappointment than anything

1. Richard Belzer was wasted. Three scenes? And one of them was babysitting Noah? I know the "Bye, Munch" was adorable, but give the man more to do!

2. Why was there not a scene with Barba and Benson hashing things out? They were not even speaking to each other last time Barba was on. I know this is a procedural, but don't show all this character development  in one episode and forget about the next, without any real consequences. I would have liked to see the two of them talk about the erosion of trust that occurred while she and Tucker were on leave.

3. As usual, Carisi is adorbs, but kind of vanished in the second half of the episode.

  • Love 1
StaceyNotStacie

StaceyNotStacie

The episode was so-so.  The storyline was okay.  Most of the main characters were likable.  Dodds Jr is really growing on me (and he looked pretty good with the haircut), and I loved the scene in the beginning on the carousel with Carisi, Rollins, Olivia, and the kids.  I didn't recognize any of the guest stars.  I was glad that they were able to get the boyfriend on the gun charge at the end.  Even though he wasn't the murderer, he was still a dirtbag.  

I really liked that scene at the end with Olivia and Munch.  I liked that he mentioned that Fin told him there was a good squad working for her.  He might give the younger guys grief, but he seems to respect them.  I also thought that Munch looked thin and frail.  I'm thinking that's the last time we're going to see him on screen.

  • Love 3
Spartan Girl

Spartan Girl

3 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

The episode was so-so.  The storyline was okay.  Most of the main characters were likable.  Dodds Jr is really growing on me (and he looked pretty good with the haircut), and I loved the scene in the beginning on the carousel with Carisi, Rollins, Olivia, and the kids.  I didn't recognize any of the guest stars.  I was glad that they were able to get the boyfriend on the gun charge at the end.  Even though he wasn't the murderer, he was still a dirtbag.  

I really liked that scene at the end with Olivia and Munch.  I liked that he mentioned that Fin told him there was a good squad working for her.  He might give the younger guys grief, but he seems to respect them.  I also thought that Munch looked thin and frail.  I'm thinking that's the last time we're going to see him on screen.

Don't jinx it! We've had way too many deaths this year!!

Snookums

Snookums

Quote

Man, Fisher Stevens just gets skeevier with age, doesn't he?  He's about five years away from Gollum.

At least he's embracing the skeeze and just playing the heck out of Perverted Tortoise Photographer.

I thought this one was okay--Sally and her terrible boyfriend who's about as much "protection" as those thick necked guys who come around every month and suggest it would be a real shame if your building burned down and do you wanna contribute to the "fireman's fund" was heartbreakingly true to life. Poor thing, nobody even told her she's probably too short for high fashion. And the former rape victim who's now sending girls younger then she was into the clutches of Alvin; trying to convince herself that it was "consensual" or at least inevitable and that all those Sallys are just as knowing and not as horribly vulnerable as she was and EVERYTHING IS FINE AND EVERYBODY GETS IT.

This whole House Of Gilbert thing was getting a little ridiculous by the end--they have enough power to cover up rampant rape and abuse so it seems like they're long time old school power brokers but they're just about to make their IPO? Make up your minds, writers. It would have made more sense to have them be a long established house that needed a cash infusion/new look so they put up with Bad Boy Alvin because his style is re-establishing their brand in a monetarily advantageous way. 

Nora the Muse of Self-Delusion And Procurement seemed to be kind of dropped right after Liv's "you're the hired help" bit, which I guess is appropriate since that's what her employers did to her. Why wring the moment of self revelation out of her if she isn't going to be the shooter or have a confrontation scene with Alvin or anything?

Barba continues to delight with every blink; his facial expression listening to the boyfriend's "I couldn't have shot him because I was going to go get my gun to shoot him!" defense was priceless. That man can do more with a lip curl then Edmund Keane could with Hamlet's death scene.

I liked Dodds' read/story on "the moment the big brother gives up and shoots your loser ass." When he said he knew it was Dunne's character, that he knew that look Alvin gave him, I didn't read it as "case closed!" but "lean on him and you will have your shooter." 

Last but not least, Munch! Have no idea why they didn't have more for him to do but the babysitting scene made up for it; except the very end where I was terrified as he went out the door, so sure was I that the writers were going to fell him with a heart attack or drop a piano on his head. This show has such a history of turning on its longtime characters like a sore-pawed honey badger that I couldn't believe they'd let him escape unscathed twice!

  • Love 6

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