S12.E21: You're Gonna Need Someone on Your Side

[North]

49 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

I understand that Callie wants to go. I understand that Callie wants her daughter to come with her. But the issue here is that this decision is not just about what Callie wants, and that's the problem. Aside from being naive and shortsighted and impulsive (which she's allowed to do, it's not a crime to make a foolish decision or anything), she's being selfish. She is Sofia's mother, but so is Arizona. Arizona has a right -- just as much of a right, if I am understanding their legal statuses correctly -- to not want her daughter to move thousands of miles away as Callie has to want her to. Callie is being very inconsiderate of the fact that when you co-parent a child on equal terms, you can't just unilaterally decide to take said child and move across the country and be all, "Hey, you can visit every other weekend!" It honestly doesn't work like that. If the other parent honestly doesn't mind and is on board, that's great. But they have every right not to be, and she honestly should have thought of that and spoken to Arizona about her feelings about Sofia moving at all rather than barging ahead with school options and visitation schedules as if Arizona's okay was going to be a given. And is moving Sofia away from her other mother, leaving her home, her school, her friends -- she must hardly ever get to see Zola as it is, what with Meredith's kids having the power of invisibility -- and all the people and places familiar to her, to uproot her whole life, in her best interests? It's not like Callie got a new, better job that she simply can't turn down. She's uprooting her daughter's life on a total whim of an idea, to follow her girlfriend of a few months for a one-year assignment. That's the kind of thing you do when you're single and childless and can, in fact, pack up your whole life and move across the country no questions asked. But when there are other people to consider -- your child, who is settled in her life here, and your co-parent, who up to now has had equal custody and every right to not want to see their time with their child reduced that way -- making that kind of decision is immature and ill-advised and, yeah, selfish.

That said ... I don't know what I want to see happen in the custody hearing. I think it's in Sofia's best interests to stay in Seattle and not have her life uprooted for no good reason, but at the same time I don't want Callie to lose custody of her. I don't want Sofia to lose either of her mothers. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what I want to see happen. This is a very touchy and painful situation for them all to be in.

And I co-sign the annoyance at assuming that one must be an Arizona supporter to not side with Callie in this storyline. Throughout the entire Calzona relationship, I was on Callie's side for about 97% of their issues. Arizona always struck me as petty and melodramatic -- and I actually think she is being a little of that in this storyline, as I don't think it was necessary to lawyer up so quickly before just having a real, honest discussion with Callie about the fact that she is not okay with Sofia moving away. But my opinions about Arizona, positive or negative, have nothing to do with the fact that I think Callie's decision-making and thought processes here have been very irresponsible.

I can get behind this, because I do agree it's not a sound decision, but I understand why Callie might think it is.

I also feel like Arizona really did something similar and that was to allow her anger to drive her need for a lawyer rather than tell Callie how she felt by what Callie was doing.

There is plenty of blame to go around for this situation but I'm seeing a lot of it directed towards Callie and no real analysis of Arizona's part in how it got this far.

Yes, Callie got the ball rolling by making a decision that is not awesome, but Arizona shut the door to any communication due to anger and escalated it.

Callie eagerly made decisions but once she understood that Arizona wasn't okay with those decisions, Callie wanted to talk about it.  Arizona refused and went to a lawyer because of something that Callie had done before out of eagerness.

Neither looks good and I have sympathy for both.

Also, I think it's telling, the only time that people have given Penny a break is when she covered for Arizona even though Arizona was being unreasonable and rude to her.

If anybody's behaviour was off putting yesterday, it was Arizona.  But I still give her a pass because I get it.

Also, putting the shoe on the other foot, I'd still be in the same situation. If Arizona was wanting to do what Callie is, I'd still see where they both were making mistakes.

It's easy to have compassion for both characters when you take the whole of who they are rather than put a microscope to this one situation and make one the villain and the other the victim and see everything one does as wrong and everything the other does in a sympathetic light.

I'm not saying you in particular are doing that, but a lot of people on this board are.

[Chicken Wing]

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There is plenty of blame to go around for this situation but I'm seeing a lot of it directed towards Callie and no real analysis of Arizona's part in how it got this far.

Yes, Callie got the ball rolling by making a decision that is not awesome, but Arizona shut the door to any communication due to anger and escalated it.

 

I agree, just as I think Callie jumped the gun in just taking it for granted that Arizona wouldn't object to her taking Sofia with her, Arizona went running to a lawyer way, way too fast. The first meeting, it looked like just a consult to see what her options were and what her rights were. But then officially retaining a lawyer after getting the call from the school? As much as she felt betrayed and that Callie wasn't really planning to take her opinions into consideration before starting any plans, she still could have and should have talked to her first before going straight to a lawsuit. Things really didn't need to go this far, and probably wouldn't have if these people would just talk to each other. (Seriously, how did these people get through med school? They're so incompetent at basic communication skills.) Jumping the gun aside, though, looking at the big picture and whose overall point of view is right and whose is wrong, I still have to give the edge to Arizona just because there is just nothing rational about Callie's plans in the first place and Arizona has every right to object, even though she decided to go about her objection in the most offensive (as in, going on the offense to the nth degree by taking her to court) way. Callie's making a stupid decision and being inconsiderate; Arizona reacted too dramatically too fast. They're both a mess, and neither one is entirely right or wrong in what they're doing and what they want. But again, I sympathize more with Arizona's side because she was the one about to lose her daughter, for no honestly worthwhile reason and with no consideration.

[GreysFan89]

I'm sorry but Callie fans are just reaching on this one. There is not plenty of blame to go round on this matter, Arizona got advice from a lawyer when she saw Callie being all Callie and oblivious about the move. Then she went to Callie to talk about the possibilities and options and Callie had already looked at freaking schools and considering the school phoned Az later that day - and this is what makes Az give Callie her lawyers card, - she had already applied to some, - that is not someone opened to a proper discussion, that is someone who has already made up their mind and is just trying to humour you by giving the illusion you have a say in the matter.

[Chicken Wing]

6 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

I'm sorry but Callie fans are just reaching on this one. There is not plenty of blame to go round on this matter, Arizona got advice from a lawyer when she saw Callie being all Callie and oblivious about the move. Then she went to Callie to talk about the possibilities and options and Callie had already looked at freaking schools and considering the school phoned Az later that day - and this is what makes Az give Callie her lawyers card, - she had already applied to some, - that is not someone opened to a proper discussion, that is someone who has already made up their mind and is just trying to humour you by giving the illusion you have a say in the matter.

This too. I understand Callie's position as she explained it afterward, that schools are competitive and if there's even an inkling of a possibility that she's going to go then she has to put in an application as soon as possible just to beat the wait list and get a foot in the door if needed -- at least that's how she tried to explain herself. But I completely understand how Arizona would feel receiving that call, having talked to Callie briefly earlier about how her plans are moving ahead too fast and she hadn't yet said she was even okay with it, and Callie's all "We're just looking at schools!", and then, whoops, she finds out that Callie isn't just looking, she already applied on her own. I would be pissed, too. Maybe she still could have just confronted Callie about it and called her out on her b.s. about wanting to discuss things together when she's obviously going ahead and making plans on her own. But I don't really blame Arizona for going on the offensive when she feels that Callie is forging ahead on her plans anyway.

[Joana]

Like I said in the spoilers thread, I don't really understand all this "going to lawyer" business. If they have joint custody, like the show has implied so far, wouldn't it actually be Callie taking it to court in order to get a permission to take Sofia out of state? And if they don't, Arizona is fighting a losing battle but she at least has to try and do something other than depend on Callie's goodwill, because what if she eventually decides she's staying in New York? Going to see a lawyer ASAP independently of her conversation with Callie would be the best possible thing to do in that situation.

In essence, I'm not really sure what that is that Arizona sued for. Unless, of course, it was actually Callie and we didn't see it. 

[RealityCowgirl]

1 hour ago, Joana said:

I certainly did. And I actually think it's a valid issue that should have been explored much earlier and not played out in such a sudden and contrived manner.

Now, see, that would have been an interesting story they could have offered us years ago: how they set up joint parental rights, maybe experience some kind of challenge (after Mark died, perhaps?), etc. Help the viewers consider the issues involved in a situation like this - and show us how these characters dealt with it - and  give us some context for what's happening now. But that would take actual storytelling and character development. Oh, yeah. This is Grey's...

Edited April 29, 2016 by RealityCowgirl

[North]

35 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

This too. I understand Callie's position as she explained it afterward, that schools are competitive and if there's even an inkling of a possibility that she's going to go then she has to put in an application as soon as possible just to beat the wait list and get a foot in the door if needed -- at least that's how she tried to explain herself. But I completely understand how Arizona would feel receiving that call, having talked to Callie briefly earlier about how her plans are moving ahead too fast and she hadn't yet said she was even okay with it, and Callie's all "We're just looking at schools!", and then, whoops, she finds out that Callie isn't just looking, she already applied on her own. I would be pissed, too. Maybe she still could have just confronted Callie about it and called her out on her b.s. about wanting to discuss things together when she's obviously going ahead and making plans on her own. But I don't really blame Arizona for going on the offensive when she feels that Callie is forging ahead on her plans anyway.

I do.  Arizona needs to speak up.

Callie needs to listen.

They both made mistakes.

51 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

I'm sorry but Callie fans are just reaching on this one. There is not plenty of blame to go round on this matter, Arizona got advice from a lawyer when she saw Callie being all Callie and oblivious about the move. Then she went to Callie to talk about the possibilities and options and Callie had already looked at freaking schools and considering the school phoned Az later that day - and this is what makes Az give Callie her lawyers card, - she had already applied to some, - that is not someone opened to a proper discussion, that is someone who has already made up their mind and is just trying to humour you by giving the illusion you have a say in the matter.

The thing is Callie did that BEFORE.  She was actively trying to talk to Arizona and Arizona closed the door.

Once she knew that Arizona wasn't okay with everything she knew it wasn't a given she could just take Sofia.

Refusing to see where Arizona made a poor decision and justifying it is exactly what I'm talking about in terms of being unwilling to look at the larger picture.

They've both made mistakes.  No one is innocent here and trying to justify where one hasn't but the other has indicates a clear preference for one character over the other in a post ironically enough calling out Callie fans.

[izabella]

This show never even confirmed that Arizona adopted Sofia and is an equal parent, legally.  We are assuming she did, but they NEVER said one single word, not even a throwaway, "We signed the adoption papers yesterday, woohoo!"

They did everything they could to make this story line as vague and confusing as possible, so I, personally, have no idea whether Arizona has a leg to stand on (heh) or not.

[windsprints]

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If they have joint custody, like the show has implied so far, wouldn't it actually be Callie taking it to court in order to get a permission to take Sofia out of state?

Not necessarily. The custody agreement may not have any stipulations for one of them leaving the state. 

[Chicken Wing]

12 minutes ago, izabella said:

This show never even confirmed that Arizona adopted Sofia and is an equal parent, legally.  We are assuming she did, but they NEVER said one single word, not even a throwaway, "We signed the adoption papers yesterday, woohoo!"

They did everything they could to make this story line as vague and confusing as possible, so I, personally, have no idea whether Arizona has a leg to stand on (heh) or not.

And color me surprised when Arizona actually mentioned her leg in this episode, heh.

I really wish they had actually confirmed it one way or the other, but I guess we're to take it for granted that Arizona does have legal rights to Sofia because otherwise there would be no court case, Arizona would indeed have no magically-regrown leg to stand on and this storyline would be a totally moot point. But knowing this show I wouldn't be surprised if, during the hearing, it came out that Arizona is actually not a legal mother and we're just going to overlook the fact that that makes her case nonexistent from jump.

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Refusing to see where Arizona made a poor decision and justifying it is exactly what I'm talking about in terms of being unwilling to look at the larger picture.

The larger picture, for me, is what makes me want to side with Arizona's side. The larger picture, the overall issue behind all of this, the central issue, is "Callie wants to move to New York," and that plan in itself is so unabashedly foolish, for multiple reasons that have been discussed already, that I can't help but side with the other person who is going to be losing out on something important (her daughter) over it - particularly when Callie was so casually oblivious to that fact.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[GreysFan89]

2 minutes ago, North said:

I do.  Arizona needs to speak up.

Callie needs to listen.

They both made mistakes.

The thing is Callie did that BEFORE.  She was actively trying to talk to Arizona and Arizona closed the door.

Once she knew that Arizona wasn't okay with everything she knew it wasn't a given she could just take Sofia.

Refusing to see where Arizona made a poor decision and justifying it is exactly what I'm talking about in terms of being unwilling to look at the larger picture.

They've both made mistakes.  No one is innocent here and trying to justify where one hasn't but the other has indicates a clear preference for one character over the other in a post ironically enough calling out Callie fans.

I didn't attempt to justify Callie's actions on this because I can't, I'm not going to try and evenly pass around blame because there is not an even amount of blame in this situation. Arizona had to act fast because Callie was acting fast and rash. I am totally calling out Callie fans on this issue, they are trying to make this a 'oh neither is looking good in this' type of thing - bullshit! For once the show is showing Callie in a bad light and Callie fans can't accept that and are trying to drag Arizona down too when the mistakes they've both made in this are in no way on the same level. Arizona acted rash because she's afraid of losing her daughter, Callie is acting rash because she can't live the year without Penny, yet feels Arizona should live the year without her daughter. 

[North]

4 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

I didn't attempt to justify Callie's actions on this because I can't, I'm not going to try and evenly pass around blame because there is not an even amount of blame in this situation. Arizona had to act fast because Callie was acting fast and rash. I am totally calling out Callie fans on this issue, they are trying to make this a 'oh neither is looking good in this' type of thing - bullshit! For once the show is showing Callie in a bad light and Callie fans can't accept that and are trying to drag Arizona down too when the mistakes they've both made in this are in no way on the same level. Arizona acted rash because she's afraid of losing her daughter, Callie is acting rash because she can't live the year without Penny, yet feels Arizona should live the year without her daughter. 

Please.

It's clear by this post exactly where you stand.

Apparently, waiting in the wings for Callie to look bad on the show.  That says a lot.

There is equal blame.  You know why?

Neither is actually discussing what would be best for Sofia.  They both just want her without discussing impact.

18 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

And color me surprised when Arizona actually mentioned her leg in this episode, heh.

I really wish they had actually confirmed it one way or the other, but I guess we're to take it for granted that Arizona does have legal rights to Sofia because otherwise there would be no court case, Arizona would indeed have no magically-regrown leg to stand on and this storyline would be a totally moot point. But knowing this show I wouldn't be surprised if, during the hearing, it came out that Arizona is actually not a legal mother and we're just going to overlook the fact that that makes her case nonexistent from jump.

The larger picture, for me, is what makes me want to side with Arizona's side. The larger picture, the overall issue behind all of this, the central issue, is "Callie wants to move to New York," and that plan in itself is so unabashedly foolish, for multiple reasons that have been discussed already, that I can't help but side with the other person who is going to be losing out on something important (her daughter) over it - particularly when Callie was so casually oblivious to that fact.

I'm talking about the larger picture in terms of why she would make that decision.  One that I don't agree with, but understand why someone with Callie's history would make.

Like I said.  It comes down to both making rash decisions and neither taking the time to communicate.

I'm not picking sides, except for Sofia's.

[GreysFan89]

Yeah...if your going to keep on about the equal blame stuff I see no point in trying to have a discussion with you, your not seeing the big picture in all of this and so I am just going to stop responding to you.

[Primetimer]

Stephanie chooses medicine over love, a dying patient chooses between familial love and passion, and Callie and Arizona asks everyone to choose between them.

View the full article

[NUguy514]

47 minutes ago, North said:

The thing is Callie did that BEFORE.  She was actively trying to talk to Arizona and Arizona closed the door.

LOL.  That's not even remotely what happened, but OK.  Others have addressed why, so I won't rehash it.

The end of the doorman story was one of the most heartbreaking things I've seen on this show; Meredith looked horrified, and there's a part of me that wishes she'd outed him (not a big part, just the small, petty part).

[izabella]

That guy is dying of cancer which is untreatable at this point, so it was no surprise to me that he would chose his family over his affair partner in the end.  People dying of cancer feel like crap and need a lot of care.  The last thing he or his family need is a traumatic revelation about the man he loves and has been having an affair with.  Would anyone expect him to choose a woman affair partner over his wife and family when he's got 3-6 months to live?

He probably also doesn't want to put Vincent through that.  It's not like they would have spent his last 6 months traveling the world or going out to cozy romantic dinners.  It would be 6 months of doctors, pain, and slowly watching him waste away and die.  I can see how he would want to spare Vincent that.

Very, very sad for everyone, but not at all surprising in terms of outcome.

[thewhiteowl]

Arizona did mention how this (the move) would hurt Sofia, Callie hasn't been shown to address that. As to why Mer supported Callie, Owen did first and she is now Owen's person and mustn't disagree. See also: pushing Amelia into a relationship with him because that's what Owen wants. Owen's wants and opinions are now Mer's not so much the reverse as I've seen.

I was glad Ben and Bailey both got a talkin' to. They needed it. Steph was a pill but I usually find her to be so. April is so so dramatic, personally I think Arizona made the wrong choice there. lol She should have stayed the Dr. April doesn't treat her friends very well.

[statsgirl]

I've never liked Arizona because she's seem too self-involved to me but I'm 100% percent on her side at this point.

Why would Owen support Callie over Arizona?  He's got the military and work abroad in common with Arizona and nothing in common with Callie that I can see.

Stephanie's storyline was STUPID.  What does she think that people who are doctors do in their relationship? They practice medicine, just not on their spouse. Is she going to avoid relationships forever because I can promise her, everyone gets sick eventually.

On the good side, it took 21 episodes but the sisters things is finally jelling.

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It's for a year and people are acting like she's trying to take Sofia away for good and bar Arizona from seeing her and that's not what's happening.

It's for a year right now but what happens when Penny's fellowship is finished and she wants to go somewhere else for her next one?  What if the relationship with Penny doesn't work out and she's not only uprooted Sofia but tanked a good co-parenting relation with Arizona for it?

If it were really just for a year and then they go back, then why is the school such a big deal?  If the school Sofia gets into isn't up to Callie's standard, then Callie can spend some time supplementing the school at home with her, given that Callie has said she's going to have more time now that she's given up a Chief of Orthopedics position and is going to take a lesser position in New York, if she can find one..

Given that both Arizona and Callie are essentially good people and good parents, what it really comes down to is what's best for Sofia.  I wish they would give Sofia her own lawyer because she's the one who really needs protection.

14 hours ago, betsyboo said:

When the wife handed Vincent the tip, it fucking broke me.

That made me so angry. At the writers, not the wife or the husband.  It was so tacky and just used to get maximum angst for the story.  A classy woman would have waited till they were back home and given the doorman a heartfelt verbal thank you and a present at Christmas.

[Biggie B]

I don't care for the Stephanie/Fez pairing at all and do hope we never see those two together again. Stephanie seemed totally irrational to me - is she really THAT invested in Kyle that suddenly she can't be apart from him for a moment? I get that she's super-concerned for his health, but she really should know better than to think she could be treating him. For heaven's sake, if it were someone else in her position, I doubt Stephanie would have any trouble laying down the law as Amelia did to her. I thought for sure she'd swipe someone else's badge and get into the viewing gallery. If that had happened, then I would have wanted Kyle to die on the table while she watched. Yes, that's sadistic of me, but be careful what you ask for, Stephanie! I'd like her to find a different partner. I saw no connection between the two of them whatsoever, and if he tries to win her back (more dick pic texts, perhaps?), I'll be quite disappointed. It was a foolish storyline to begin with.

I had to laugh when Amelia, Maggie, and Meredith were leaving the hospital and Meredith said to them both, "Stop the drama!" Ha! That was a fun scene, new staircase and all. And I agree with the earlier poster who liked Maggie's wardrobe - she definitely has become more stylish since she arrived on the scene. I think she and Riggs might be a good pairing.

[Joana]

It's great how Meredith seemed totally indifferent about Owen's and Amelia's relationship (and even sabotaged it a bit when she got in the middle of that mess when Riggs arrived) when it looked like might actually have a future, but now that it's been well and truly established that they're not right for each other and Amelia herself has acknowledged that, she's totally supportive and is pushing her to seize the moment and embrace happiness and blah. Go figure. 

[Chewy101]

3 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

That said ... I don't know what I want to see happen in the custody hearing. I think it's in Sofia's best interests to stay in Seattle and not have her life uprooted for no good reason, but at the same time I don't want Callie to lose custody of her. I don't want Sofia to lose either of her mothers. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what I want to see happen. This is a very touchy and painful situation for them all to be in.

 

Well, I figured the judge is going to finish his sentence (preview of next week) with"Sole custody is going to....NO ONE!" So then Callie will have to grow a brain and regroup. Following an intern across the country is even more lame than some of her other antics. I LIKE her, I LIKE Arizona. I am not rabid about either of them. But I simply think Callie is flat out wrong and delusional on this one. And selfish. Both women have been through hell with one another and still managed to forge a friendship and raise their daughter peacefully. Now Callie is ruining multiple lives at the excuse of her own happiness. That is selfish. And she wont be happy. Callie is a very needy person who will have an incredibly busy girlfriend and no other friends in the city. She will end up back at Seattle Grace anyway. Sophia will be fine. Kids in the military grow up just fine getting relocated. They fair better than adults. I wasn't really any more worried about Sophia than the rest of the Seattle Grace kids who apparently get left in daycare for days at a time when it's convenient for their parents. But doing this to Sophia's other mother should be for a MUCH better reason than just some brand new relationship. Callie has always been so impulsive, it gives me whiplash.

[windsprints]

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As to why Mer supported Callie, Owen did first and she is now Owen's person and mustn't disagree. See also: pushing Amelia into a relationship with him because that's what Owen wants. Owen's wants and opinions are now Mer's not so much the reverse as I've seen.

I don't know why Meredith gave her lousy advice to Amelia but she does seem to side with him now that you mentioned it. Amelia worrying about her sobriety isn't her being overly dramatic. And really, Meredith talking about being dramatic? Two weeks ago she was screaming at the top of her lungs to get her lover out of the house without his clothes & shoes then cleaning while ignoring her children all day. Her "you too" to Maggie also didn't make sense to me. Maggie had already gone public with the relationship. DeLuca ended it, not Maggie. I guess they were going for "isn't Meredith so funny!" but they could have at least had her make some logical sense in the process.

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Stephanie seemed totally irrational to me - is she really THAT invested in Kyle that suddenly she can't be apart from him for a moment?

I agree. They were together for a couple of weeks, part of which he was in the hospital. Then again Izzie was madly in love with Denny and they never even went on a date.

[iMonrey]

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She easily could have told Callie about Arizona's blow-up in the cafeteria, and how she accused Penny of being a spy. 

Surely word would get back to Callie anyway. There were tons of witnesses.

You know, Kevin McKidd was in a movie (with Patrick Dempsey) called Made of Honor, in which an issue was made of the fact that he was well-endowed, and now Grey's is making the same issue with his character here. Makes me wonder . . .

[izabella]

I understand Amelia worrying about her sobriety when it comes to Owen.  But, really, she also ought to be worried about getting involved with a guy who lives in a trailer on someone else's property.  How is that trailer even still there?  It was Derek's to live in while he built the dream house, which was sold long ago.  Why would the new owners want some loser trailer on their property with crazy people coming and going and yelling and getting fall down drunk?  Why would a doctor choose to live in a hand-me-down trailer that is a ferry ride and then some away from the hospital he spends 90% of his time in? 

[Chicken Wing]

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I'm talking about the larger picture in terms of why she would make that decision.  One that I don't agree with, but understand why someone with Callie's history would make.

The larger picture of choosing to move with Penny and why this matters to her? Yeah, it's absolutely in character for Callie to want to do something like this. She's always been impulsive and reckless with her love life like this, jumping headfirst into the deep end even when it's not warranted, and to not really consider the impact on others. I understand, but understanding doesn't make it okay and it doesn't justify or excuse the collateral damage she'd be creating. And as such, I don't care why Callie wants to go. We all want things, even self-described important things. But we can't always get what we want.

[Biggie B]

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How is that trailer even still there?  It was Derek's to live in while he built the dream house, which was sold long ago.  Why would the new owners want some loser trailer on their property

Didn't Derek live in the trailer when the show began, well before he even met Meredith? I can't recall. But good point - if the trailer is still on land that's part of the dream house property, that would be weird.

I have an ancient T-shirt purchased from or through the old TWOP site that has a drawing of the trailer, with the caption "If the trailer's a-rockin', don't come a-knockin'!" Or it might say "McDreamy's trailer," I can't remember (been a while since I've worn it).

[dabronx]

Has Penny made ANY promises to Callie that she's even committed to returning to Seattle after her year-long fellowship? Or that she's committed to playing any role with Sofia other then mommy's girlfriend? Callie's behavior is what I'd expect from the stunted adolescents trapped in adult bodies on Teen Mom 2. Penny won't get involved and isn't making any commitments to either Callie or Sofia and somehow Callie see's that as a person worthy of ditching her career, friends, child's family support system etc.? And none of her friends are pointing it out? Arizona bothers the hell out of me about 99% of the time but Callie has me rooting for her in front of the judge next week. Callie's being shitty mom, a shitty professional (ditching career for tail - puh lease!), a shitty co-parent, and a shitty all around grown up. I hope the writers get it together and find a better send off if this is her last season.

[ChicksDigScars]

5 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

I have to wonder how much biological parent vs. non-biological parent factors into the viewpoints. And to be honest, I think that part is likely what factored into Callie's earlier presumptuousness.

Exactly. That's what I'm getting out of this. When Callie and Arizona were together it was all, "we're BOTH Sofia's mommies" and biology never came into question. Now that they've broken up and she's moved on, it seems that Callie is assuming that because she is the biological parent, she gets to be the custodial parent in charge of all decisions regarding Sofia, uproot her, and why the hell should Arizona have a problem with that? Plus, telling a woman who lost her leg in a plane crash (thank you for finally acknowledging that last night, show) that Arizona can "hop on a plane and come see her anytime," is incredibly thoughtless. A plane ride across country? From Seattle to NYC? Really? Callie is acting like she's moving to San Francisco, and it's a relatively short flight, or perhaps driving distance. 

I can totally see a judge siding with Callie based on biology. I see where this is going. 

Callie has always erred on the selfish side. Also the impulsive side when it comes to relationships. I recall the hissy fit she threw when poor George didn't say "I love you" back to her, when they hadn't been dating long, and he was clearly not ready.  I don't have a preference to Callie or Arizona, as far as the characters, or the actresses that play them. This time, I'm taking Arizona's side, probably because I see this as a lost cause for her. I don't have to be a rabid Arizona fan to feel that way. She's the underdog, here. I tend to root for the underdog. 

And asking your friends and co-workers to choose sides? Ugh. No. Arizona seemed to be a little less willing to make people choose a side. Callie was more put out when people said no. 

[Chicken Wing]

I am honestly disappointed that Meredith and Owen so readily agreed to speak on Callie's behalf, to take a side essentially. I admire Alex's maturity in refusing to choose sides. He is honestly closer to Arizona than he is to Callie, but he is friends with them both and he's just not going to go there. So why did those two? While Owen is probably more Arizona's friend than Callie's and Meredith is probably more Callie's friend than Arizona's, still, as with Alex, they're each friends with both of them. Unless one of them is their bestest best friend in the world, which we know they're not, how can they choose? And besides, I'd think Meredith could more identify with Arizona's position than with Callie's anyway. She is also mother to a child who is not biologically hers, and at one point also went through a period where she almost lost her; her own children are growing up without their second parent following her husband's death; and she herself knows what it's like to be five years old and be moved to the other side of the country from your other parent.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[WhosThatGirl]

The thing is, I don't even like Arizona that much but I feel like Callie had already made her decision in the last episode. She was going to leave. The conversation went like, Penny and Callie found an apartment, here are some schools, and Arizona was like, "uhh..what?" also, yes, while it is only for a year, what if the fellowship hospital offers Penny a full time job to stay? I hope this question is asked next week in the court hearing because it's important. 

Something tells me Callie is going to win, though. I just feel like I have this feeling, because as much as I know Arizona is just as much as a mother as Callie, Callie is the bio mom and I feel like that might mean more to a judge. I don't really know. 

[Shellie]

14 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Plus, telling a woman who lost her leg in a plane crash (thank you for finally acknowledging that last night, show) that Arizona can "hop on a plane and come see her anytime," is incredibly thoughtless. A plane ride across country? From Seattle to NYC? Really? Callie is acting like she's moving to San Francisco, and it's a relatively short flight, or perhaps driving distance. 

No kidding.  Round trip, that's at least 11 or 12 hours on a plane even with a nonstop flight.  Factor in the time required to be at the airport before takeoff.  Plus three time zone changes.  Consider how crazy doctors' schedules are.  How would this ever work?  

[GreysFan89]

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

The thing is, I don't even like Arizona that much but I feel like Callie had already made her decision in the last episode. She was going to leave. The conversation went like, Penny and Callie found an apartment, here are some schools, and Arizona was like, "uhh..what?" also, yes, while it is only for a year, what if the fellowship hospital offers Penny a full time job to stay? I hope this question is asked next week in the court hearing because it's important. 

Something tells me Callie is going to win, though. I just feel like I have this feeling, because as much as I know Arizona is just as much as a mother as Callie, Callie is the bio mom and I feel like that might mean more to a judge. I don't really know. 

Folks saying that - not you of course,you were just summarising  :) - but other folk saying "it's just a year why's Az making such a big deal" can fuck the hell off. If one year is no big deal, then why the fuck can't Callie and Penny make it work.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

Folks saying that - not you of course,you were just summarising  :) - but other folk saying "it's just a year why's Az making such a big deal" can fuck the hell off. If one year is no big deal, then why the fuck can't Callie and Penny make it work.

Yeah, I know. That bugs me too.  Because  Callie and Penny as adults can work around the year thing, why should AZ have to shuttle herself back and forth for a year to see her child? Also, I don't understand why Callie is giving up her job title for this as well? That's a big thing too. Whatever, 

[GreysFan89]

3 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah, I know. That bugs me too.  Because  Callie and Penny as adults can work around the year thing, why should AZ have to shuttle herself back and forth for a year to see her child? Also, I don't understand why Callie is giving up her job title for this as well? That's a big thing too. Whatever, 

I don't understand it at all, maybe Callie suffered a head injury we don't know about. I mean we already know if she had told Penny about it, Penny wouldn't have told her to go for a CT. ;) lol

[Readalot]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't give April a pass for getting hysterical with Arizona. Her only impulse was to blame Arizona for not catching it sooner. If Arizona didn't see anything two weeks ago, then maybe there was nothing for her to catch during the previous scan. Or hey, did you ever consider the possibility that two weeks ago, the baby's brain was too tiny for Arizona to see that there was any sort of problem? What makes it worse is that April is a doctor so she knows that there are no guarantees, but she still sounded like a petulant child when she said, "But you promised that there was nothing wrong with the baby!" Gawd. Yeah, I get that she's still freaked out about what happened to Samuel, but nothing about this is Arizona's fault so April needs to have a seat and quit screaming at her.

 

 

Unfortunately I get it. I miscarried twins early in my second trimester. It was extremely traumatic for me, we had been trying for years. Before they had my husband leave the room before the procedure started I remember telling him hysterically "Promise ME you will never let this happen again!"  I remember the nurse sqeezing my hand and the dr looking at me with pity. Of course we all knew that was impossible to promise but I needed to say that to get through the next few hours. Wow haven't thought of this  year's. (PS they did find a major birth defect with the twin that died first. His quality of life, if he made it long, would of been nil). 

[Joana]

3 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Why would Owen support Callie over Arizona?  He's got the military and work abroad in common with Arizona and nothing in common with Callie that I can see.

He and Callie worked together on that project for veterans and they really bonded over it. At this point he's definitely closer with Callie and I fully expected him to side with her. That Meredith would agree to it without blinking an eye was a lot more surprising and quite unbelievable.
 

Quote

 

That made me so angry. At the writers, not the wife or the husband.  It was so tacky and just used to get maximum angst for the story.  A classy woman would have waited till they were back home and given the doorman a heartfelt verbal thank you and a present at Christmas.

 

I agree with the recap - I think she knew. And it was a payback in more ways than one.

[statsgirl]

If she knew that her husband and the doorman had feelings for each other, then it was even worse to give him money like a hired attendant.  What she should have done is returned gratitude for his affection and caring, not treated him like he was only there for the money.

[Chicken Wing]

15 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If she knew that her husband and the doorman had feelings for each other, then it was even worse to give him money like a hired attendant.  What she should have done is returned gratitude for his affection and caring, not treated him like he was only there for the money.

I think it was about dismissing him. I too believe the wife knew, and her husband's words were clear to everyone -- he was choosing her, and so Vincent needed to leave, and she was making that choice clear to poor Vincent by just giving him a tip for his day's trouble as a very pointed declaration that he is and always was nothing more than the friendly doorman, and he can show himself out now because his presence is no longer needed, or wanted... Sob!

Edited April 29, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Stephanie seemed totally irrational to me - is she really THAT invested in Kyle that suddenly she can't be apart from him for a moment?

I think it was the exact opposite.  I think that Stephanie was way more into Kyle's condition than she was into Kyle himself.  I think she likes him sure and probably given time may have even come to love him, but the thing that made her light up wasn't him, it was the possibility of trying a new technique she spent time researching and scrubbing into his surgery.  Which is why I understood why she chose what she did.  I think her method was shitty (and I love that Jerrika Hinton agrees that what Steph wasn't cool) but she really seemed more miserable without surgery than she was without him.

19 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

If she knew that her husband and the doorman had feelings for each other, then it was even worse to give him money like a hired attendant.  What she should have done is returned gratitude for his affection and caring, not treated him like he was only there for the money.

If the wife knew, and I think she did, I think the tip was not meant meanly.  I think his staying around so long for the surgery and hovering so concernedly, did the unthinkable, it brought to the forefront the thing they had all allowed to stay discreetly in its place.  She needed to return everything back to the status quo and the only way to do that was the remind him he was a concerned employee.  Thanking him alone doesn't do that.

I loved the whole Vincent storyline.  It was just good old fashioned storytelling.  It is interesting because I think if Leo and Vincent would have been a heterosexual pairing, the story could have still worked because in the end it was about Leo making a choice and choosing loyalty and family over passion.  But I think making them a same sex couple just adds an extra layer of bittersweet to the story.  Given their age, they may have some thoughts about the taboo nature of the relationship which also adds to the poignancy of the story.  I also think the wife, in her way, understands what her husband needed from Vincent and could accept it in a way that she  may not have if Vincent had been a woman.

[jaync]

What's up with Riggs' accent/non-accent? The actor needs to pick a lane.

Maybe it was the way the actress played it, but I didn't get that the wife knew about her husband's true feelings for the doorman. If not, then she probably just felt obligated to compensate the man for the wages/tips he would've missed while being at the hospital.

When the custody mess is over, the show better give Arizona a girlfriend. I'd be down for the rockstar doctor returning, because she and Arizona were fire.

[Chicken Wing]

Quote

Maybe it was the way the actress played it, but I didn't get that the wife knew about her husband's true feelings for the doorman. If not, then she probably just felt obligated to compensate the man for the wages/tips he would've missed while being at the hospital.

She didn't really do anything, and obviously didn't say anything, that made it obvious that she knew. I think most of us are just assuming that she must have known, or at least suspected. Because it had been going on for 15 years. Because they didn't seem like they had been particularly subtle about the depth of their "friendship" -- Vincent's true interest in Leo (yay, that's his name!) was obvious from the moment he opened in his mouth in their first scene. Because she's the wife and the wife always knows. She didn't specifically act like she knew, but she didn't act like she didn't know, either, if that makes sense.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[redfish]

This whole back and forth of what Callie wants or what Arizona wants, has no one asked what Sophia wants? Making her move all the way to New York because her mother wants to be with someone Sophia just met is a big step for her. They don't seem to have scenes of Sophia's reaction to the news. I can imagine during the court case Sophia being dragged into this. God, more drama.

[GreysFan89]

1 minute ago, Chicken Wing said:

She didn't really do anything, and obviously didn't say anything, that made it obvious that she knew. I think most of us are just assuming that she must have known, or at least suspected. Because it had been going on for 15 years. Because they didn't seem like they had been particularly subtle about the depth of their "friendship" -- Vincent's true interest in Leo (yay, that's his name!) was obvious from the moment he opened in his mouth in their first scene. Because she's the wife and the wife always knows.

I personally don't think the wife knew. As a gay person myself, I can tell you it's amazing what people will not see when they don't wont to. It can be right in front of some people and still they'll be totally oblivious.

[Chicken Wing]

15 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

I personally don't think the wife knew. As a gay person myself, I can tell you it's amazing what people will not see when they don't wont to. It can be right in front of some people and still they'll be totally oblivious.

True. There's just a tinge, if you will, in the "tip" scene that makes me feel like she knew. Up until that moment I honestly hadn't put much thought into whether or not the wife had any idea about the two of them, but there was something about the way she sent him on his way in the end that seemed like she knew exactly what was going on -- whether she knew all along, or suspected it but chose to remain willfully ignorant to the reality, or only just figured it out today.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Chicken Wing

[GreysFan89]

1 minute ago, Chicken Wing said:

True. There's just a tinge, if you will, in the "tip" scene that makes me feel like she knew -- whether she knew all along, or suspected it but chose to remain willfully ignorant to the reality, or only just figured it out today.

It's the tip scene that makes me hope she didn't know, lol, I guess after 15 years she must have at least subconsciously known but if she did know know, then girl! that was cold! 

Anywho, I did adore that storyline, it's the type of patient story Grey's has been lacking recently. They've totally been half assing the patient stuff even forgetting to finish patients story in recent weeks!

[ChicksDigScars]

4 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

I am honestly disappointed that Meredith and Owen so readily agreed to speak on Callie's behalf, to take a side essentially. I admire Alex's maturity in refusing to choose sides. He is honestly closer to Arizona than he is to Callie, but he is friends with them both and he's just not going to go there. So why did those two? While Owen is probably more Arizona's friend than Callie's and Meredith is probably more Callie's friend than Arizona's, still, as with Alex, they're each friends with both of them. Unless one of them is their bestest best friend in the world, which we know they're not, how can they choose? And besides, I'd think Meredith could more identify with Arizona's position than with Callie's anyway. She is also mother to a child who is not biologically hers, and at one point also went through a period where she almost lost her; her own children are growing up without their second parent following her husband's death; and she herself knows what it's like to be five years old and be moved to the other side of the country from your other parent.

 

Well now, bringing logic into this is just CRAZY TALK. 

Meredith did the same thing when it came to the investigation of Ben over the dead mom and the elevator doors. Owen RIGHT AWAY tried to drag Riggs into the fray, and Meredith sided with Owen immediately, despite working with Riggs and finding him to be a competent doctor. She immediately took Owen's word, branding Riggs as a liar and a cheater. Maggie was the voice of reason, as she was last night in RIGHTFULLY calling out Ben, and shot down Owen and Mere immediately.  "Don't waste my time." Thank you. 

And speaking of THANK YOU (again), Maggie, for finally handing Ben his ass. He's been showing his ass for a long time. I do NOT like that Bailey was given a similar speech. Fighting with your arrogant jack ass of a husband in front of everyone, during surgery, was very un-Chief like, but giving in to your husband's slick maneuver and writing him on the board? No. Ben did something terrible. He was suspended for it. He should NOT be given his way just because he found a way around that punishment.  God, he's an insufferable prick. At least Mark Sloan with his "bone dry cappuccinos"  (what does that mean, anyway?) was a likable insufferable prick. 

[thewhiteowl]

Also odd to me was Mer and Owen openly siding with Callie, the one leaving. Won't that be awkward the next time they work with Arizona?

[maddie965]

This show always makes me crazy when it shifts the priorities to the wrong side. For the show, sex>children, so who you date is always more important than what happens to your kids. Judgment>ethics, so it's OK to refuse treatment to someone if that person is "bad" (a thief, for instance). Personal feelings> professionalism, so if you hate someone it's OK to tell everyone that person is a bad doctor. Friendship>love, so you always side with your friend, but not with your wife/lover. Oh, and adults>kids, so their wishes don't matter at all. As far as the authors are concerned kids don't even have wishes.

Anwyay, right now Callie is being a bad mother (being a good mother is doing what's best for the child, not wanting to be with the child at all times), a bad lover (putting Penny in a very uncomfortable position),  a bad friend (making her friends choose sides) a bad ex-wife (treating her ex like shit), a bad doctor (giving up on her career) and a bad LGBT person (for thinking Arizona doesn't have the same rights she does).  

Oh, and by the way, I love Callie. So congratulations, show, for totally destroying one of my favorite characters!

Edited April 30, 2016 by maddie965

[Chewy101]

I'm not sure why April doesnt get a pass for freaking out momentarily over someone telling her her baby could have brain problems. She thought she was about to relive the hell she already went though, and I think AZ got that. Heck, she probably gets yelled at by terrified panicked parents more than anyone else in the hospital. She didn't seem all that worked up that April needed to vent, and that sometimes we kill the messenger. She DID apologize to Arizona afterward. Sometimes we do things, and we have to ask for forgiveness, so I am not excusing April getting snippy with AZ, but I LIKE that they are friends and April could work through her panic and AZ didn't drop her for it. Instead she told April to get another doctor so she could just be her friend. I thought it was sweet. They have come a long way since getting drunk in the closet at that weird circus fundraiser two seasons ago.

I have never delivered a baby of my own and held it while it died..... But I can't imagine there is anything worse to go through. Why does April have to be so perfect just because she is a doctor. Does that make her dead inside? Don't we have enough dead inside doctors on this show already.  She is human and parenthood was snatched from her once before. I can very easily give the girl a break for being in a panic while her marriage crumbled and she is terrified of reliving the past year all over again.. Shrug.

46 minutes ago, maddie965 said:

Anwyay, right now Callie is being a bad mother (being a good mother is doing what's best for the child, not wanting to be with the child at all times), a bad lover (putting Penny in a very uncomfortable position),  a bad friend (making her friends choose sides) a bad ex-wife (treating her ex like shit), a bad doctor (giving up on her career) and a bad LGBT person (for thinking Arizona doesn't have the same rights she does).  

Oh, and by the way, I love Callie. So congratulations, show, for totally destroying one of my favorite characters!

lol. All of this! I loved Callie, too. Now I don't like her much, though. Add her to a long list of characters I no longer like. I used to like most of them, and now I watch trying to find people to like- if even for an episode. This show is a bad habit at this point.

[Chewy101]

Quote

This whole back and forth of what Callie wants or what Arizona wants, has no one asked what Sophia wants? Making her move all the way to New York because her mother wants to be with someone Sophia just met is a big step for her.

With respect, I have never been a fan of asking small children what they want over what decisions have to be made. The only one in this situation less mature and less discerning than Callie is Sophia. I DO think children can handle when their parents do things like this. But It's unkind to Sophia to lose Arizona, and it's unkind to Arizona to lose Sophia. Callie is being a petty child, and proving why I never ask children to weigh in on grownup decisions.