The Star Wars Saga

[Danny Franks]

10 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Not to be Captain Obvious, but what choice is there but deep sarcasm?

We waited two years for The Last Jedi, and within a week a petition has been launched to have the film stricken from the entire Star Wars canon. People are  offended enough by its existence that they want it removed from existence, and whether you blame the fanboys who have problems with Rey being front and center or the Reylo shippers who are pissed because she slammed the Millennium Falcon's door in his douchey face, this is what we've come to.

Yes, TLJ could have been better, but our general inability to be happy with anything ever makes me wonder what will happen when Infinity War hits theaters next year. TFA was too much a copy of the original trilogy, so they did something different, and the something different for some people has turned out to be the wrong kind of something different. If what I posted is the reaction to that, the backlash to the backlash, it's hard to fault the original poster. They're only piling some of the complaints one of top of the other.

Are they really starting petitions? Wait... of course they are. Thwarted fanboy and 'shipper girl rage is a terrible thing to behold.

The only problems with this movie, in my view, came from the editing suite. Some parts were too flabby and slow, one or two characters could have been excised from the plot, or explained better. That's really it. In terms of being a fun, exciting, Star Wars movie, this ticks all the boxes.

And in terms of giving the audience positive, hopeful messages, it did too. I haven't read any of the specific criticisms, and don't known that I ever will, because they're almost never rational or logical. Which is understandable, when you're emotionally invested in a franchise. But if people aren't prepared to see that franchise change and grow, then they need to find something else to devote themselves to.

[SNeaker]

There are many people in "The Last Jedi" thread right here at previously providing thoughtful, reasoned criticism. It's the best place I've seen for discussion.

[Spartan Girl]

The fact that Leia is still standing after everything she's gone through -- watching her home planet and parents get blown up, finding out Vader was her father, her son going to the dark side, losing Han, Luke going AWOL -- makes me even more bitter that George Lucas reduced Padme into a simpering, spineless shadow of her former self that "lost the will to live" just because Anakin went evil. Yes, she was hormonal from carrying twins but SERIOUSLY.

Know what would have been better? If we got to watch Yoda and Obi-Wan convince Padme to give up Luke and Leia for their safety. At first she fights them tooth and nail, but she ultimately caves because after Anakin slaughtered the younglings she knows there's no way she can risk him finding out about their twins. And so we get a poignant scene of her cuddling and kissing each baby, trying to memorize their every feature, before very reluctantly turning them over to Obi-Wan and Bail, then weeping her heart out as she watches their two ships take off and split into separate directions: Luke to Tatooine, and Leia to Alderaan.

Dying of a broken heart after that would have been a bit more understandable.

[absnow54]

It still makes me made that they didn't send her into hiding on Alderaan as was implied in Return of the Jedi. They cut the story line from Revenge of the Sith, but Padme was a part of the initial rebellion talks, and I feel like Anakin's turn to the dark side would be the spark that would fully commit her to the cause. I would have preferred that her ending be going to Alderaan to be near Leia and to help plot the rebellion, with the implication that "She died when [Leia] was young" probably defending what was left of the republic.

[anna0852]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

The fact that Leia is still standing after everything she's gone through -- watching her home planet and parents get blown up, finding out Vader was her father, her son going to the dark side, losing Han, Luke going AWOL -- makes me even more bitter that George Lucas reduced Padme into a simpering, spineless shadow of her former self that "lost the will to live" just because Anakin went evil. Yes, she was hormonal from carrying twins but SERIOUSLY.

Know what would have been better? If we got to watch Yoda and Obi-Wan convince Padme to give up Luke and Leia for their safety. At first she fights them tooth and nail, but she ultimately caves because after Anakin slaughtered the younglings she knows there's no way she can risk him finding out about their twins. And so we get a poignant scene of her cuddling and kissing each baby, trying to memorize their every feature, before very reluctantly turning them over to Obi-Wan and Bail, then weeping her heart out as she watches their two ships take off and split into separate directions: Luke to Tatooine, and Leia to Alderaan.

Dying of a broken heart after that would have been a bit more understandable.

Yes! This please! Can we start a petition to have the prequels reshot?

[benteen]

George Lucas once told Dave Filoni, his supervising director of The Clone Wars that "continuity is for wimps."  Padme dying in childbirth when Leia remembers her growing up is a textbook example of that.  I never, ever thought that George would go with a weak, stereotypical "she lost the will to live" when it came from Padme.  He basically had her abandon her kids.  At least if she had been seriously injured before giving birth, I could see the grief over what happened to Anakin being enough to finish her off.  But if there is nothing physically wrong with you, you DO NOT DIE because you lose the will to live!

[VCRTracking]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

George Lucas once told Dave Filoni, his supervising director of The Clone Wars that "continuity is for wimps."  Padme dying in childbirth when Leia remembers her growing up is a textbook example of that.  I never, ever thought that George would go with a weak, stereotypical "she lost the will to live" when it came from Padme.  He basically had her abandon her kids.  At least if she had been seriously injured before giving birth, I could see the grief over what happened to Anakin being enough to finish her off.  But if there is nothing physically wrong with you, you DO NOT DIE because you lose the will to live!

See we have the droid or alien whatever doctor say that but they intercut her giving birth with Anakin with third degree burns and his limbs cut off being turned into Darth Vader. They don't intercut two people in different places in Star Wars unless it's someone sensing the other in the Force. Earlier they showed Padme and Anakin having a Force bond as the latter stares from her apartment and the other from the Jedi Temple. My theory is that the pain of childbirth along with feeling Anakin's pain is what kills her.

[benteen]

1 hour ago, VCRTracking said:

See we have the droid or alien whatever doctor say that but they intercut her giving birth with Anakin with third degree burns and his limbs cut off being turned into Darth Vader. They don't intercut two people in different places in Star Wars unless it's someone sensing the other in the Force. Earlier they showed Padme and Anakin having a Force bond as the latter stares from her apartment and the other from the Jedi Temple. My theory is that the pain of childbirth along with feeling Anakin's pain is what kills her.

I would certainly take that over what was implied.

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah, that would have been better. I would have bought Padme dying in childbirth because of the Force strangling had it not been for that stupid line from the medical droid. But I still would have liked Padme making the difficult choice to give up her twins instead.

I also would have liked them to keep the scenes of her involvement in starting the Alliance, and cut the stupid scene of her prattling with Anakin on her balcony while brushing her permed hair and wearing that gorgeous yet impractical nightgown. Fucking George Lucas...

On that matter: with all the technology in the SW universe, how the HELL did she manage to go through a pregnancy without knowing she had twins?!

[benteen]

Maybe she didn't want spoilers? ;)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Wasn't sure of where to put this:
 

I'm fine. Really.

[Morrigan2575]

Saw that last night, that got me ??

[ilovethedark]

7 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Wasn't sure of where to put this:
 

 

I'm fine. Really.

There’s a follow up, he got a chance to see it.

 

I’m not crying, it’s just the onion ninjas. ?

[Spartan Girl]

Mark Hamill's great performance in The Last Jedi made me see his stuff in the other movies with new eyes. For as much crap we give Luke for being whiny at times, Mark always played him in a way that never felt forced. He was always earnest and sincere. The reaction to finding out Vader was his father seemed very genuine, not at all like Anakin/Vader's cheesy "NOOOOO!" IN ROS.

Another great moment was right before he reveals to Leia that their siblings, whhen he asks her about her mother. She asks him why he wants to know, he says, "I never knew my mother. I have no memory of her." That line was delivered with just the perfect amount of sadness (damn you, Padme!)

[Zuleikha]

And damn you Lucas for retconning Padme's fate so that the subtext of that scene no longer makes sense.

[Morrigan2575]

Just got done watching Kevin Smith's review of The Last Jedi.  It's posted in TLJ thread if you want to watch. I'm cross posting this thought, because it really belongs here.

One thing he points out at the end (of the video) and, I totally didn't get this in the movie theater. He mentions the ending with the force sensitive boy and, suggests that it's a setup for Rion's trilogy and, that this boy will be the new hero who's journey we follow.

I honestly thought it was just a setup for a massive time jump from VIII to IX but, it could be the next trilogy.

[Morrigan2575]

Quote

 

Do you guys think Disney will proceed with Rian Johnson's Trilogy or give it to someone else based on TLJ reviews and lagging box office (falling behind TFA domestic take)?

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Do you guys think Disney will proceed with Rian Johnson's Trilogy or give it to someone else based on TLJ reviews and lagging box office (falling behind TFA domestic take)?

Interesting question.  I never expected The Last Jedi to outgross The Force Awakens and I think that was the general consensus.  I expect Episode IX not to come close to The Last Jedi's take either.  As for Rian Johnson, that is definitely something to look at.  I've heard Kennedy loves him and hasn't had a problem with him like she has with other directors.

[methodwriter85]

It's not just lagging a bit behind- we're talking over 100 million behind at the same point. That's pretty significant and I can't see Disney not taking that into account.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, methodwriter85 said:

It's not just lagging a bit behind- we're talking over 100 million behind at the same point. That's pretty significant and I can't see Disney not taking that into account.

That's what I was thinking. I was surprised that TLJ had fallen so far behind TFA. 

[Scarlett45]

On 12/21/2017 at 7:40 AM, Spartan Girl said:

The fact that Leia is still standing after everything she's gone through -- watching her home planet and parents get blown up, finding out Vader was her father, her son going to the dark side, losing Han, Luke going AWOL -- makes me even more bitter that George Lucas reduced Padme into a simpering, spineless shadow of her former self that "lost the will to live" just because Anakin went evil. Yes, she was hormonal from carrying twins but SERIOUSLY.

Know what would have been better? If we got to watch Yoda and Obi-Wan convince Padme to give up Luke and Leia for their safety. At first she fights them tooth and nail, but she ultimately caves because after Anakin slaughtered the younglings she knows there's no way she can risk him finding out about their twins. And so we get a poignant scene of her cuddling and kissing each baby, trying to memorize their every feature, before very reluctantly turning them over to Obi-Wan and Bail, then weeping her heart out as she watches their two ships take off and split into separate directions: Luke to Tatooine, and Leia to Alderaan.

Dying of a broken heart after that would have been a bit more understandable.

This would’ve been a great idea!

On 12/21/2017 at 8:00 AM, absnow54 said:

It still makes me made that they didn't send her into hiding on Alderaan as was implied in Return of the Jedi. They cut the story line from Revenge of the Sith, but Padme was a part of the initial rebellion talks, and I feel like Anakin's turn to the dark side would be the spark that would fully commit her to the cause. I would have preferred that her ending be going to Alderaan to be near Leia and to help plot the rebellion, with the implication that "She died when [Leia] was young" probably defending what was left of the republic.

I always thought Leia was referring to her adoptive mother dying when she was very young, I don’t recall Leia knowing she was adopted at the beginning of the original triology. 

On 12/21/2017 at 9:02 AM, benteen said:

George Lucas once told Dave Filoni, his supervising director of The Clone Wars that "continuity is for wimps."  Padme dying in childbirth when Leia remembers her growing up is a textbook example of that.  I never, ever thought that George would go with a weak, stereotypical "she lost the will to live" when it came from Padme.  He basically had her abandon her kids.  At least if she had been seriously injured before giving birth, I could see the grief over what happened to Anakin being enough to finish her off.  But if there is nothing physically wrong with you, you DO NOT DIE because you lose the will to live!

This is true, but Anakin choked her out pretty badly during their last confrontation. I agree with @Spartan Girl, It would’ve made more sense for the stress of going into labor, blood loss, PLUS Anakin’s attack render her too weak to survive the birth of her twins. Padme got a raw deal, I mean they had Natalie Portman and they did NOTHING for the character. 

[absnow54]

36 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I always thought Leia was referring to her adoptive mother dying when she was very young, I don’t recall Leia knowing she was adopted at the beginning of the original triology. 

The fact that Luke specifies "your real mother" implied to me that Leia knew she was adopted. Otherwise it's a weird way to phrase a question. Then again we don't know much about Leia's upbringing, so maybe she had another surrogate mother after her adoptive mother died. 

[Scarlett45]

3 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

The fact that Luke specifies "your real mother" implied to me that Leia knew she was adopted. Otherwise it's a weird way to phrase a question. Then again we don't know much about Leia's upbringing, so maybe she had another surrogate mother after her adoptive mother died. 

Oh yes you’re correct, I didn’t recall that part. 

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Padme got a raw deal, I mean they had Natalie Portman and they did NOTHING for the character. 

SERIOUSLY. She started out so badass at the beginning of the prequels, and then they just trashed her character. What happened to the fierce warrior queen of Naboo? There was no way Anakin was THAT good of a lay.

[Zuleikha]

I can understand Padme being broken down by the end of Revenge of the Sith. She was one of the few who saw with clear eyes what was happening to the Republic with Palpatine's rise, and she has some culpability for it. Then she sees Anakin go dark, too. Also, being pregnant with twins is rough! But not so broken down that she lost the will to live. I don't think Lucas really intended the intercut to be Palpatine stealing her life force for Vader, but I choose to go with that interpretation for so long as canon doesn't rule it out.

Also, Clone Wars does right by Padme. Clone Wars really shows how there were such great ideas in the prequel that Lucas just wasn't talented enough of a writer to bring to screen. It's a shame.

Do you guys think Disney will proceed with Rian Johnson's Trilogy or give it to someone else based on TLJ reviews and lagging box office (falling behind TFA domestic take)?

I don't think they would give it to someone else, although they may pull it. If I were them, I'd make him do the first one as a standalone and have the sequels be contingent on success of the standalone. I'm in the camp that was deeply disappointed with TLJ, but most of my disappointment was about the way TLJ dropped the ball on continuing the story from TFA. If it had been a new story with new characters, I may have liked it. So I could see his trilogy being successful, but I also think they should be cautious.

[Perfect Xero]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I always thought Leia was referring to her adoptive mother dying when she was very young, I don’t recall Leia knowing she was adopted at the beginning of the original triology.

I always thought this as well, there's never a reference to Leia being adopted in any of the previous films (Lucas, of course, hadn't even decided that Leia would be Luke's sister until fairly late into the writing of Jedi). When Luke asks her about her 'real mother', I always assumed that Leia thinks that he's talking about Bail's wife.

[VCRTracking]

Even though this is also about TLJ it's mainly about the Star Wars movies and saga in general and also the now defunct EU canon, retitled Legends and a very good read.

I only knew that Luke married Mara Jade from the Timothy Zahn books but not aware about all the other stuff that happened to the OT  trio in the EU. I have to say I prefer the TLJ version even more now!

Excerpt:
 

Quote

In the course of these narratives, the character known as Luke Skywalker was married (to a subaltern of his arch-nemesis Emperor Palpatine, no less), imprisoned (in almost every story – usually with a fiendishly clever trap that somehow nullified his Jedi abilities), promoted, demoted, turned into a gladiator, tempted to join the Dark Side, eventually made to join the Dark Side and apprenticed to a clone of Emperor Palpatine, forced into a lightsaber battle against his own clone (the somewhat comically named “Luuke”), made deathly ill multiple times, cut off from the force multiple times, had a child, forced to reckon with his faulty knowledge of the totality of the force (also several times), built and destroyed several Jedi temples, had his wife become deathly ill several times, forced into exile, forced to ally with his deadly foes – The Sith – to defeat a common enemy, almost had to abandon his son when his mind was overtaken by the telepathic ability of a colony of insectoid aliens, and blown up imperial planet-killing weapons by the metric ton. It would be fair to say that Luke Skywalker has been subject to more dramatic incident in the form of life-or-death situations than any human being could possibly face while remaining sane.

Edited December 30, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Joe]

56 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Even though this is also about TLJ it's mainly about the Star Wars movies and saga in general and also the now defunct EU canon, retitled Legends and a very good read.

I only knew that Luke married Mara Jade from the Timothy Zahn books but not aware about all the other stuff that happened to the OT  trio in the EU. I have to say I prefer the TLJ version even more now!

Excerpt:
 

I bought and enjoyed most of that stuff, and some of it is better than the way he describes it. Look at TLJ. Luke screws up and creates a new dark side villain. Instead of sticking around to fix his mess, he runs away and hides in the middle of nowhere. Later, when pressed for help, he chooses to die for a token gesture of support instead of leave his hermitage.

[ChelseaNH]

On 12/30/2017 at 4:13 PM, Joe said:

Luke screws up and creates a new dark side villain.

You think Kylo hadn't turned to the dark side before that night?

[VCRTracking]

On 12/30/2017 at 1:13 PM, Joe said:

I bought and enjoyed most of that stuff, and some of it is better than the way he describes it. Look at TLJ. Luke screws up and creates a new dark side villain. Instead of sticking around to fix his mess, he runs away and hides in the middle of nowhere. Later, when pressed for help, he chooses to die for a token gesture of support instead of leave his hermitage.

And there are soap opera characters and comic book characters that have been around for more than 30 years with biographies just as crazy. What I liked about Luke's fate in TLJ is that it was both mythic and human at the same time.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, ChelseaNH said:

You think Kylo hadn't turned to the dark side before that night?

Maybe he had. But Luke certainly didn't help the situation. Though it would be nice if we got some backstory about how Snoke got to Ben and dragged him to the dark side. Not three movies about it, but maybe a book.

[Zuleikha]

But Luke certainly didn't help the situation.

I don't think we know enough to really know. We know that Luke ignited the lightsaber for a hot second because of the darkness he sensed in Kylo. We know that Snoke was actively working Kylo (and IIRC, didn't Leia say explicitly in TFA that Kylo's leaning towards the Dark Side was why she and Han sent Kylo to Luke?). We know that Kylo's response to seeing Luke with an ignited lightsaber was not to ask about it but rather to attack Luke and then massacre completely innocent kids.

Personally, I put the blame on Kylo's turning to the Dark Side on Kylo's choices over an apparently extended period of time rather than Luke's momentary fear response.

[katie9918]

Captain Phasma - What exactly was the big deal about her? She commanded a squadron of Stormtroopers in Episode 7.. and that was about it.

She appeared briefly for a well-earned ass-kicking from Finn in Episode 8.

 

Both Rey and Rose were far more awesome than Phasma were. Why am I seeing complaints about misogyny when we had Leia, Rey, Rose, Holdo, and Paige, not to mention countless female faces? Did Luke, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren, and Hux, and all the countless male faces (although, to be fair, both Hux and Ren are complete morons) need to all disappear completely?

 

I LOVED this movie and am looking forward to the next one.

[Joe]

3 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

I don't think we know enough to really know. We know that Luke ignited the lightsaber for a hot second because of the darkness he sensed in Kylo. We know that Snoke was actively working Kylo (and IIRC, didn't Leia say explicitly in TFA that Kylo's leaning towards the Dark Side was why she and Han sent Kylo to Luke?). We know that Kylo's response to seeing Luke with an ignited lightsaber was not to ask about it but rather to attack Luke and then massacre completely innocent kids.

Personally, I put the blame on Kylo's turning to the Dark Side on Kylo's choices over an apparently extended period of time rather than Luke's momentary fear response.

I'm not saying that Luke is wholly responsible, I fully expect that Ben and Snoke share the bulk of the blame. Just that planning to kill him might have been the final push to the dark side.

[VCRTracking]

13 hours ago, Zuleikha said:

We know that Kylo's response to seeing Luke with an ignited lightsaber was not to ask about it but rather to attack Luke and then massacre completely innocent kids.

I do not at all blame Ben Solo's response. It was self defense but I do think what Luke saw in his heart must have been scary dark for him to freak out and ignite his lightsaber for a second.

[AimingforYoko]

On 12/27/2017 at 11:52 AM, Morrigan2575 said:

Do you guys think Disney will proceed with Rian Johnson's Trilogy or give it to someone else based on TLJ reviews and lagging box office (falling behind TFA domestic take)?

To match what Empire did after Star Wars, TLJ will have to gross $638m. I see that happening. These things never go on an unending upward trajectory. 

Polarizing? Yes. A disappointment (Financially)? Hardly.

[wingster55]

Luke can be a whiny character at times in the original trilogy but in this film he finally got some tragic gravitas.

While I won't disagree that he could be whiny, his arc in ROTJ was full of gravitas. In fact I'd say his arc through the entire OT was great. Mark Hamill really doesn't get enough credit for showing the growth and maturity Luke went through after learning about his father. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

15 hours ago, katie9918 said:

Both Rey and Rose were far more awesome than Phasma were. Why am I seeing complaints about misogyny when we had Leia, Rey, Rose, Holdo, and Paige, not to mention countless female faces? Did Luke, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren, and Hux, and all the countless male faces (although, to be fair, both Hux and Ren are complete morons) need to all disappear completely?

The real answer, of course, is no, they don't. Because that's ridiculous.

However.

One of the complaints when Rogue One came out was that Jyn was the only female present when the battle of Scarif happened, that aside from Mon Mothma being at the council meeting she was the only woman who got much say in the goings-on. I believe the term used was 'sausage fest', and never mind that everyone who went to Scarif ended up as ash, there were just too many damned boys and not enough girls.

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, wingster55 said:

While I won't disagree that he could be whiny, his arc in ROTJ was full of gravitas. In fact I'd say his arc through the entire OT was great. Mark Hamill really doesn't get enough credit for showing the growth and maturity Luke went through after learning about his father. 

ITA. His whole demeanor in ROJ made it seem like he'd aged a whole decade since finding out that awful revelation. I loved his conversation with Vader before he goes to the Emperor; how he calmly explained that he accepted that Vader was once Anakin Skywalker, his attempt to reach him, and his sad, resigned "Then my father is truly dead" when Vader keeps resisting.

And let's not forget the awesomeness of this moment: "You failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me."

On a related note, Vader's "It's too late for me, son" always gets me because before the ending, that was the ONLY time in the whole series that Vader even shows a glimmer of paternal affection towards Luke. Up until that point, he didn't really give a shit that the child he thought died with Padme was alive after all. And when he found out there were twins, the first thing he did was use Leia to taunt Luke into attacking him.

Heck, even before he became Vader, Anakin was more concerned with keeping Padme than anything else. Note that his plea to Palpatine was: "Just help me save Padme, I can't live without her." Not a word about his unborn child. Because I think if it came to choosing between her and the baby, he wouldn't hesitate to choose her.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Spartan Girl

[Zuleikha]

Why am I seeing complaints about misogyny when we had Leia, Rey, Rose, Holdo, and Paige, not to mention countless female faces? Did Luke, Finn, Poe, Kylo Ren, and Hux, and all the countless male faces (although, to be fair, both Hux and Ren are complete morons) need to all disappear completely?

It's hard to address this definitively without knowing what you're seeing, but the solution to gender inequity in movies isn't as simple as increasing the presence of female characters, although that's generally a necessary first step. It also matters what the movie does with the characters. TLJ did great as far as I could tell with background roles. I'm really hoping we get an actual breakdown of lines/character percentages, but I think it is probably a model of how easy it is to have equity with background roles. That type of representation definitely matters, and both Johnson and TLJ deserve praise for doing that well. TFA was good, but still noticeably male dominated in background roles. Rogue One was pretty horrible. However, IMHO, TLJ was so-so with its treatment of secondary and lead female roles. (I started to write out an explanation of why, but it got too long and would belong in The Last Jedi topic instead of the Star Wars Saga)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Random, but someone on Facebook posted this
 

I feel very weird having watched that.

[ulkis]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Heck, even before he became Vader, Anakin was more concerned with keeping Padme than anything else. Note that his plea to Palpatine was: "Just help me save Padme, I can't live without her." Not a word about his unborn child. Because I think if it came to choosing between her and the baby, he wouldn't hesitate to choose her.

I agree, but it helped me to buy why Vader cared enough to save him.

[Spartan Girl]

On another subject, I will never in a million years understand why (if it really intended them to be twins all along) Lucas just had to have Leia kiss Luke on Hoth. It was just so wrong on so many levels. Aside from the obvious ick factor, I really hate the trope of a girl using a guy just to make another guy jealous. If Leia wanted to mess with Han, whatever, but it was cruel for her to get Luke's hopes up, knowing that he had feelings for her.

Luckily, by the end of the movie, Luke seemed to have grown out of his crush on her. I always like that last shot of them standing together at the space station, with him just trying to be there for her as a friend as she grieves for Han.

[Joe]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

On another subject, I will never in a million years understand why (if it really intended them to be twins all along) Lucas just had to have Leia kiss Luke on Hoth.

 

I can't remember where I read this, but originally Leia wasn't his sister. The other Skywalker was supposed to be somewhere else in the galaxy, and we'd meet her during the third movie. However, plans changed. Incest was produced by accident/bad retconning.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

I can't remember where I read this, but originally Leia wasn't his sister. The other Skywalker was supposed to be somewhere else in the galaxy, and we'd meet her during the third movie. However, plans changed. Incest was produced by accident/bad retconning.

Pretty much, original script treatments for Empire and RotJ have a different sister for Luke. 

[afterbite]

I feel like I've imbibed an unusually high amount of SW lately. I saw TLJ, then listened to The Phantom Menace audiobook, read Rey's story on Kindle (somehow so not what I thought it was going to be, which was essentially a retread of her storyline in TFW), and decided to rewatch Rogue One on NYE, which lead to an unintentional marathon as I then rewatched the original trilogy (all with occasional snippets of the Clone Wars animated series in the background as it's one of my favorites for background viewing). I mean, I've always liked SW, but this was an unprecedented spike in my consumption.

So anyway, I think what I came away with was a greater appreciation for those folks who were disgruntled by TFA. I don't care if it's heresy to some, but Rogue One is right up at the top of my favorite SW movies. It did something interesting and new in a way I'd like to see more of in the franchise, and put me in mind of what Marvel has done with some of their Avengers properties. It was a spy story, war movie, and political intrigue. It felt like a genre movie in the Star Wars world (kind of like The Winter Soldier and, though different genres, like the Guardians of the Galaxy movies and Thor Ragnarok [in particular]). When TFA came out, I loved it. I still enjoy it, but it definitely needs a cooling off period between RotJ and its rewatch. Rogue One made me want to see A New Hope. ANH made me want to see ESB. ESB made me want to see RotJ. Next up in the chronological queue was TFA, but by that time in the unexpected marathon, I only made it about 20 minutes in before the feeling of retread prompted me to turn it off. As much as I know it's a reset, the disheartening parts of that didn't hit me until it came up in direct comparison to the OT. Before that, it was joyous nostalgia with new characters that I mostly enjoyed. With the comparison, it was more like 'Why would I watch this? I just watched an emotionally satisfying, complete arc of this very same thing with characters I mostly enjoyed.'

So, to all of your curmudgeons who grumbled about TFA when it came out, I apologize (a little) for brushing away your complaints. At the time, I was enamored with the shiny new thing that made me think wistfully of the shiny old thing. I get it a little more now, and think wistfully of what interesting things could have been done with these new folks.

[Perfect Xero]

This is an interesting look at how Star Wars (ANH) was changed in the edit.

There's a lot of rearranging in the early movie, but the thing that strikes me as most interesting was that in the original version of the film the Death Star was not preparing to fire on the Rebel base.

[Danny Franks]

That's really interesting. I always find the editing of movies to be a really cool art, and showing just how vast a difference it can make to a story, using only shot footage, just reinforces that. It does sound like the original version was every bit the mess that Francis Ford Coppola said it was, which kind of reinforces my opinions of George Lucas as a filmmaker. Even with the original Star Wars, it took the intervention of several other people to save it.

One thing I'm always curious about is the role of Koo Stark's character, who we saw briefly in that video. She was intended to be one of Luke's friends on Tatooine, and a possible love interest, but was cut from the final movie (sensibly, by the look of it, given those Tatooine scenes). But I always wonder what role she might have played, going forward. Would she have been a minor character who popped up like Wedge? Or a fourth leg of the Luke/Leia/Han triangle?

[benteen]

Koo Stark's character, Camie, was meant to be a one-off character like the rest of Luke's friends.  She's disdainful of Luke in her only appearance, giving him the nickname Wormie.  Her and Fixer, her boyfriend, due pop up in again in the original Marvel Comic Star Wars series.  Those comics were deeply flawed but a lot of fun.

Those scenes were rightly cut from the movie but are still interesting to see.

Edited January 17, 2018 by benteen

[VCRTracking]

On 1/17/2018 at 9:46 AM, Danny Franks said:

That's really interesting. I always find the editing of movies to be a really cool art, and showing just how vast a difference it can make to a story, using only shot footage, just reinforces that. It does sound like the original version was every bit the mess that Francis Ford Coppola said it was, which kind of reinforces my opinions of George Lucas as a filmmaker. Even with the original Star Wars, it took the intervention of several other people to save it.

One thing I'm always curious about is the role of Koo Stark's character, who we saw briefly in that video. She was intended to be one of Luke's friends on Tatooine, and a possible love interest, but was cut from the final movie (sensibly, by the look of it, given those Tatooine scenes). But I always wonder what role she might have played, going forward. Would she have been a minor character who popped up like Wedge? Or a fourth leg of the Luke/Leia/Han triangle?

Those Toschi Station scenes were put in because his friends(I believe it was Matthew Robbins and Hal Barwood) read an early draft and thought it was "too weird" to just have the two droids be the focus for the first 20 minutes of the movie and that Luke should be introduced early. They were wrong.

Edited January 19, 2018 by VCRTracking