Season 3

[Guest]

I hate Dear Emily and Richard, but that's mainly because I can't stand the whole "working women have no concept what childbirth is like" trope that you see on tv way too often.  When Sherry's friend keeps going on and on about how "she screwed up, but she's still our Sherry" I want to throw things at the tv. I do love Lorelai taking the DVD player to Emily at the end.  

And I do like Sookie and Joe in I Solemnly Swear. But the rest of the episode is a total dud for me.

[JaggedLilPill]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

I hate Dear Emily and Richard, but that's mainly because I can't stand the whole "working women have no concept what childbirth is like" trope that you see on tv way too often.  When Sherry's friend keeps going on and on about how "she screwed up, but she's still our Sherry" I want to throw things at the tv. 

OMG. All I wanted was for Sherry's friend to STFU. Sherry didn't screw up, you moron. Yes, she planned for a C-section, but these things happen. 

Don't even get me started on Sherry having Rory fax papers from the hospital. Just no.

[moonb]

Yep, I skip all Sherry-related scenes in season 3.  I just realized that young Lorelai's voice reminds me of Francie, another dull part of season 3, imo. They both come across as any generic prep school girl.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Yep, I skip all Sherry-related scenes in season 3.

Yeah, I fast forward through most of her scenes in Dear Richard and Emily.  It's too dumb. 

[JaggedLilPill]

The Francie stuff was also stupid. I'm not sure why it was needed. Part of me thinks it was just so they could have Paris and Rory fight due to the 'betrayal' and then have them work on that speech together so Paris can reveal to Rory that she slept with Jamie. Although the scene where Paris is on stage breaks my heart for her. If anyone did deserve Harvard, it was Paris. 

And I love Rory, I really do, but quite frankly, it was bullshit that she got into Harvard while Paris didn't. Paris did more extracurriculars than Rory and thinking about it makes my head hurt because this is another area where ASP molded the story despite it not making sense. Not only does Lorelai think any school - let alone a prestigious private school - would let a kid apply to only one college, but Rory had the paper and student government as her only activities, which would be fine except Paris was doing Habitat For Humanity, soup kitchens, etc. It also rang false that Rory was valedictorian over Paris. Unless Paris missing however long she did after the CSPAN freak out had an effect on her grades. But then we saw Rory deliver her assignments, so I don't know. Rory as salutatorian would have made more sense to me, but whatever.

Sigh. know, I know, this show. But the inconsistencies drive me nuts. You would expect that Rory and Lorelai who have been lusting after Harvard for a good - what, 14-15 years? - by the time season 3 rolls around would be more prepared for what the application process is like, etc. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

And I love Rory, I really do, but quite frankly, it was bullshit that she got into Harvard while Paris didn't.

In fairness, Paris did come off as seriously unbalanced during her Harvard interview, so I could see how that might outweigh her extracurricular and grades.

[dustylil]

12 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

but Rory had the paper and student government as her only activities, which would be fine except Paris was doing Habitat For Humanity, soup kitchens, etc

Rory had been active in Stars Hollow charitable and community activities since she was a child. She also had a part-time job at the Independence Inn. Presumably a guidance counsellor at Chilton would make sure Rory included those aspects of her life in her application.

 

16 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

You would expect that Rory and Lorelai who have been lusting after Harvard for a good - what, 14-15 years? - by the time season 3 rolls around would be more prepared for what the application process is like, etc.

And she had been at that fancy pants prep school for two and half years. You'd think knowledge of the application process, the necessity for applying to multiple schools, the need for extra-curriculars, etc. would have come up in more than idle conversation.

[JaggedLilPill]

20 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

In fairness, Paris did come off as seriously unbalanced during her Harvard interview, so I could see how that might outweigh her extracurricular and grades.

Oh yeah she definitely came off as unhinged, but I think this is one of those examples where ASP takes a facet of someone's personality and amps it up to make it fit. Paris could be neurotic and intense, that's all true. To me, it was another of course, Rory would get into Harvard moment.

For Paris though, I am surprised her being a legacy didn't appear to help matters.

ETA: The more I think about it, the more I am realizing how season 3 was a dud compared to other seasons. The way it was decided Rory would go to Yale seemed anticlimactic. 

They built up to a lot of stories and ended them on a meh note.

Edited June 3, 2016 by JaggedLilPill

[hippielamb]

11 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

OMG. All I wanted was for Sherry's friend to STFU. Sherry didn't screw up, you moron. Yes, she planned for a C-section, but these things happen. 

Don't even get me started on Sherry having Rory fax papers from the hospital. Just no.

I can't believe that Sherry expected a 17 year old girl to go in the delivery room with her. Every time I see it, I get angry. Though as I recall, Rory had a comical freaked-out expression on her face. I haven't rewatched that episode yet. The flashbacks and the Emily & Lorelai scene at the end are what I enjoy about it. I love Lorelai's body language at the hospital when Chris is being supportive to Sherry. It's sad but well played. Yes, I have seen that episode many, many times. 

Totally agree about season 3. There's a lot I would normally fast forward through. 

[dustylil]

11 minutes ago, hippielamb said:

I can't believe that Sherry expected a 17 year old girl to go in the delivery room with her. Every time I see it, I get angry

Women are inviting all sorts of people to  Coming Out Parties these days. So perhaps Sherry was just ahead of the curve. But yes, I too get angry at that. Poor Rory.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Rory had been active in Stars Hollow charitable and community activities since she was a child. She also had a part-time job at the Independence Inn. Presumably a guidance counsellor at Chilton would make sure Rory included those aspects of her life in her application.

I think Rory's "part-time job" at the Independence consisted off her occasionally doing odd jobs around the Inn for her mother.  I'm not sure if we even saw her doing those beyond the second season.  As to the rest, how much is a college going to care if you attend a "community activity?"  They do care about charity, but they want to see names of groups they recognize, so they aren't left wondering if you just made up all the fake-sounding Stars Hollow fundraisers.        

 

Quote

I can't believe that Sherry expected a 17 year old girl to go in the delivery room with her.

Rory's age in that situation doesn't bother me.  It's not like they are going to seat her in front of Sherry's vagina and make her watch what happens.  She'll just be there to offer support to Sherry.  For me, I think it's a stupid idea because Rory and Sherry aren't close and had never discussed the idea.  I think it's absurd to be asking her to come into the delivery room given their relationship. 

Edited June 3, 2016 by txhorns79

[Eeksquire]

Quote

They do care about charity, but they want to see names of groups they recognize, so they aren't left wondering if you just made up all the fake-sounding Stars Hollow fundraisers.

I'm sure Taylor would be DELIGHTED to write the Princess of Stars Hollow a recommendation letter from the Stars Hollow Booster Club (or whatever the hell).  I'm glad that everyone is chiming in with this because I have to admit that my re-watch is kind of stalling out here in Season 3 - I just watched Let the Games Begin and it was ... underwhelming.  I do like the Deep-Fried Korean Thanksgiving episode though (drunk Sookie "am I laughing or crying?"), so that's something to keep some forward momentum at least.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I'm sure Taylor would be DELIGHTED to write the Princess of Stars Hollow a recommendation letter from the Stars Hollow Booster Club (or whatever the hell).

I'd like to think Taylor wrote Yale a letter letting them know Rory refused to be Ice Cream Queen, or whatever it was called, on the hope they would rescind her acceptance. 

[Guest]

12 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

 

For Paris though, I am surprised her being a legacy didn't appear to help matters..

Especially given how many times we heard that Richard could help Rory get into Yale because he was a legacy.

And given that Paris' dad was able to pull strings at Yale, where he was not an alumni, but not Harvard?  Plot contrivance. Pure plot contrivance.  

[dustylil]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

And given that Paris' dad was able to pull strings at Yale, where he was not an alumni

Maybe he was a lecturer there - like Richard was in Season 7 - and had string pulling capabilities through that ;)

[twoods]

Like you guys, I only loved a few episodes in season three. Rewatching it on Netflix, I only watched about 5-6 episodes (the ones that everyone likes). I can't stomach shrieky Sherry, all the Chilton crap, and Jess getting thrown under the bus. 

Loved the thanksgiving one, but Dean was ridiculous at the end. "This is my town". Didn't you move from Chicago a few years ago? I would love to go to four thanksgiving meals (except that tofurky looked disgusting).

[lulu1960]

Yeah, I agree about Season 3. I enjoy One's Got Class, They Shoot Gilmores, A Deep-Fried Thankgiving,  Poes, and Pinocchios. The rest have moments I may enjoy (Luke teasing Jess about the swan comes to mind), but overall I can take or leave them.

[cantbeflapped]

I forgot about Poes, lulu.  I'll add that one to my list too.  You're right though, even the meh episodes usually have parts I really enjoy.  

[hippielamb]

On 6/2/2016 at 11:05 AM, deaja said:

And I do like Sookie and Joe in I Solemnly Swear. But the rest of the episode is a total dud for me.

They have the best chemistry of any couple in that episode. Lorelai and Alex felt flat by comparison. I believed Joe and Sookie were old friends. They were cute.

On 6/3/2016 at 6:00 AM, txhorns79 said:

Rory's age in that situation doesn't bother me.  It's not like they are going to seat her in front of Sherry's vagina and make her watch what happens.  She'll just be there to offer support to Sherry.  For me, I think it's a stupid idea because Rory and Sherry aren't close and had never discussed the idea.  I think it's absurd to be asking her to come into the delivery room given their relationship. 

That was my real problem with it too. Sherry seems to take a lot for granted with Rory. She assumes Rory will visit frequently when she's at Harvard, and that she'd have no problem being in the delivery room. She never bothers to ask what Rory wants. It does give us a glimpse of the Rory is freaked out by childbirth phobia she has. 

 

Catching up with the episodes

That'll Do, Pig

Emily freaking out over Trix is always funny. It was nice to see Lorelai give her mother advice and be sympathetic. Bossy Rory is ridiculous. I wanted Francie to laugh in her face. Rory & Dean trying to be friends makes sense. He was a big part of her life in the last two years. I thought they had more of a friendship based relationship anyway.

I Solemnly Swear

The Chilton drama was boring, this whole plotline feels forced. Paris calling Rory her best friend is revealing. She does that a few times in the series but Rory never calls Paris her best friend. I am surprised Emily trusted Lorelai with giving a deposition. That's a serious thing and it's rare for Lorelai to turn off the pop culture jokes and yammering.

Lorelai Out of Water

Poor Lane. "He's not Korean." There's a symmetry between Lane and the bride. Both are having other people make decisions for them and they accept it. I love Headmaster Charleston's lecture to Rory and Paris. He made some good points. Funny bits were Lorelai's fishing outfit, and Madeline and Louise talking about a boy after the Rory and Paris fight. Also, I noticed how nervous Luke was in asking out Nicole. I never picked up on that before. 

[dustylil]

1 hour ago, hippielamb said:

Sherry seems to take a lot for granted with Rory. She assumes Rory will visit frequently when she's at Harvard, and that she'd have no problem being in the delivery room. She never bothers to ask what Rory wants.

I think Sherry had a very idealized view of family life, particularly that of  the life of a blended family. Perhaps growing up she watched too many Brady Bunch reruns :)  She assumed that she was acquiring a bright, charming college  bound young woman  who would be a daughter and as well as a loving sibling and a role model for her own new child. After all, Rory was close to her Dad (they spoke on the phone every week!) even if he hadn't been that involved when she was younger. And since she and Christopher were on the same wavelength (despite that brief rough patch) and he liked her ideas, then Rory would naturally go along with them as well.

That Rory and her father had never been bosom pals until very recently and that he had always been an unreliable presence in his daughter's life would likely have come as a complete and unpleasant surprise to Sherry. That his interest in the Gilmore girls had always been Lorelai first and Rory second would have been a shock. Had she known the real story, she likely would have  dealt with  Rory  quite differently from the start. To say nothing of making fewer assumptions about Rory's interest and role in the new family.

[txhorns79]

Quote

She assumed that she was acquiring a bright, charming college  bound young woman  who would be a daughter and as well as a loving sibling and a role model for her own new child.

She did?  When did she say any of that to Rory?  I mean honestly, Rory mentions that Sherry had considered being a single parent in order to have a child, so it doesn't seem to me that she is someone who traffics in fantasy.     

Edited June 5, 2016 by txhorns79

[JayInChicago]

I'm on haunted leg or maybe the next episode. The one where christopher shows up uninvited to FND.

DOES THIS MAN NOT KNOW HOW TO USE A CONDOM? Did he and Sherry discuss whether they wanted children? Together? Does he not know where babies come from? Does he not remember what happened on a certain balcony in 1984? 

God damn. I don't usually hate Chris as much as most here but what a sad sack of crap.

[hippielamb]

17 hours ago, dustylil said:

I think Sherry had a very idealized view of family life, particularly that of  the life of a blended family. Perhaps growing up she watched too many Brady Bunch reruns :)  She assumed that she was acquiring a bright, charming college  bound young woman  who would be a daughter and as well as a loving sibling and a role model for her own new child. After all, Rory was close to her Dad (they spoke on the phone every week!) even if he hadn't been that involved when she was younger. And since she and Christopher were on the same wavelength (despite that brief rough patch) and he liked her ideas, then Rory would naturally go along with them as well.

That Rory and her father had never been bosom pals until very recently and that he had always been an unreliable presence in his daughter's life would likely have come as a complete and unpleasant surprise to Sherry. That his interest in the Gilmore girls had always been Lorelai first and Rory second would have been a shock. Had she known the real story, she likely would have  dealt with  Rory  quite differently from the start. To say nothing of making fewer assumptions about Rory's interest and role in the new family.

That's true. Maybe Sherry didn't have any real life exposure to step-families because it's rarely The Brady Bunch. This is skipping ahead a bit but still in season 3, I wonder what she thought when she stopped seeing Rory after G. G.'s birth. There's no mention of her visiting them and they weren't at her graduation. I doubt Rory went to their wedding though that's just conjecture on my part. Out of sight, out of mind I guess. 

38 minutes ago, JayInChicago said:

I'm on haunted leg or maybe the next episode. The one where christopher shows up uninvited to FND.

DOES THIS MAN NOT KNOW HOW TO USE A CONDOM? Did he and Sherry discuss whether they wanted children? Together? Does he not know where babies come from? Does he not remember what happened on a certain balcony in 1984? 

God damn. I don't usually hate Chris as much as most here but what a sad sack of crap.

Lol you would think he would be extra safe just to not have it happen again. Sherry & Chris were in a long term relationship, they probably stopped using condoms when it got serious. I do think kids were the next step for them if it hadn't gone south by Sookie's wedding. They had a puppy together and Sherry implied their relationship was moving in that direction when she first met Lorelai.

[Kohola3]

Quote

They had a puppy together...

And in true Christopher/Sherry fashion they must have dumped the poor thing when it became too much trouble since it never appeared during the infamous baby shower.  Too bad they couldn't dump Gigi as easily.

[Eeksquire]

Ok, in defense of Season 3, it IS the season where Jess gets "beaked" by the swan.  Which is my second favorite Jess moment of all time (the first, of course, being when Luke pushes him into the lake).

[lulu1960]

Quote

Ok, in defense of Season 3, it IS the season where Jess gets "beaked" by the swan.  Which is my second favorite Jess moment of all time (the first, of course, being when Luke pushes him into the lake).

Yes, I hate the Rory/Jess dinner at Emily's but the Jess/Luke part is fun.

[dustylil]

3 hours ago, JayInChicago said:

DOES THIS MAN NOT KNOW HOW TO USE A CONDOM?

Oh let's face  it.  Effective birth  control was generally unknown to quite a  number of GG characters - Christopher, Sherry, Lorelai, Luke, Anna. Later Lane and Zach. And of course, Jackson and Sookie.

[chitowngirl]

Well, in Sookie's defense, after baby #2, she thought Jackson had a vasectomy (I don't want to start up the "she forced him into it" discussion!). So she wouldn't be using birth control because she thought it was taken care of and Jackson couldn't use a condom.

[dustylil]

46 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

Well, in Sookie's defense, after baby #2, she thought Jackson had a vasectomy (I don't want to start up the "she forced him into it" discussion!). So she wouldn't be using birth control because she thought it was taken care of and Jackson couldn't use a condom.

Ironically she had been on the pill for other reasons. But because it was a comedy of errors doesn't make it any less than it was - ineffective birth control for the couple. To say nothing of it being a huge  lack of trust and communication on the part of each of  them.

Edited June 6, 2016 by dustylil

[readster]

22 minutes ago, dustylil said:

Because it was a comedy of errors doesn't make it any less than it was - ineffective birth control. To say nothing of it being a huge matter of marital trust and communication.

I just call it completely stupid!

[junienmomo]

Last drabble on Deep Fried Korean Thanksgiving:

• Loved Emily's hair and coat when she came to the Inn. picture below
• Didn't understand why Lorelai called Luke the Grinch and them Cindy Lou when they were the ones being grinchy and not going to his dinner. Seems to me Luke would be Cindy Lou. I can see the bow in his hair already ;)
• Cat Kirk is one of the few Kirk bits I actually enjoy

 

[Guest]

Rory is so unbearable in Swan Song at the FND.  Of course Jess stormed away - you accused him of being rude to Emily when you were the rude one, you picked a fight with your boyfriend in front of your grandma, etc. 

Most of the episode is just boring to me. I don't really care about Alex and New York.

[hippielamb]

Dear Emily and Richard

Young Lorelai reminds me (in attitude, not appearance) of present day Louise. I think it's interesting that Christopher is ready to do what the parents want and get a job, while Lorelai wants him to go to Paris. He more easily bends to the Gilmores will, which is why they like him so much.

I like Chris but boy, does he show a lack of sensitivity to Lorelai at the hospital. I get that it's all about Sherry but maybe he could have chosen his words better. I love that Lorelai puts aside her discomfort with the whole situation to be there for Rory.

I love that final scene. It's a sweet moment. I also love seeing Emily defend Lorelai in the flashback. That's twice this season she has stuck up for her daughter. :)

Swan Song

Dave and Lane's convoluted meet up plan always makes me laugh. These two love their subterfuge. So in sync.

I rarely agree with Emily but I loved her tirade against Jess.

I like the final scene of the girls together. That's a difficult topic to discuss but I am glad they did. Once more Lorelai puts aside her discomfort to be there for Rory. I do think it's odd that Rory is considering this after the events of the episode. Whatever. It's a nice scene between the girls.

Face Off 

Richard is such a little boy when it comes to his relationship with Trix. I like that scene of him and Lorelai laughing together.

The Big One

Poor Paris. I don't normally sympathize with her but her break-down with Rory was so sad. I am glad that Rory could still be her friend despite Paris' bad behaviour as of late. I think it's weird that Rory only appiled to other Ivy leagued schools. Princeton and Yale are safety schools?

Lorelai and Dean in the supermarket with their unintended chemistry. I read a fanfic based on that scene once lol. Max and Lorelai still have good physical chemistry going for them. It's what is lacking with her relationship with Alex.

A Tale of Poes and Fire

I like the Poes and the townie element. I love the pro/con lists and the scene in Rory's room where it has been redecorated. It's bittersweet to see it blended with Lorelai walking through the burned inn. I think Sookie was way over the top in Luke's. Yikes.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Richard is such a little boy when it comes to his relationship with Trix. I like that scene of him and Lorelai laughing together.

I LOVE that scene - "Maybe he'll take you to a ball game!" I think the relationship between Lorelai and Richard is one of the best on this show.  It's not always good, but somehow I find it believable all of the time - sometimes the battles between Lorelai and Emily are a little too over the top and unrealistic for me.

[solotrek]

10 hours ago, hippielamb said:

I think it's weird that Rory only appiled to other Ivy leagued schools. Princeton and Yale are safety schools?

I think because those are the big schools Rory applied to, those are the only ones they mentioned her acceptance in. Rory only confirmed Yale and Princeton and Thanksgiving because her mom had an epic meltdown after hearing Yale. But most likely, Vassar and Wesleyan like the man at Thanksgiving had listed. During her pep talk with Paris, she had listed Columbia, Stanford, Sarah Lawrence as alternatives to Harvard; so it would make sense if those were also backups (of course Columbia is also an Ivy - with an amazing journalism program as well). I'd assume some of the sister schools, some Ivy's, and then top private and public schools focusing mostly in the North East. Though her backups are "dream schools" for a lot of people.

[Guest]

 I like the final scene of the girls together. That's a difficult topic to discuss but I am glad they did. Once more Lorelai puts aside her discomfort to be there for Rory. I do think it's odd that Rory is considering this after the events of the episode. Whatever. It's a nice scene between the girls.

I always felt like it was shoehorned in because they wanted to get the plot moving to set up Paris' storyline in The Big One. It really didn't fit with where we saw Rory/Jess that episode.

[dustylil]

55 minutes ago, solotrek said:

of course Columbia is also an Ivy - with an amazing journalism program as well

But journalism is a graduate program at Columbia. So at that point  in time of no great significance to Rory.

I wonder why Emily's alma mater Smith was never in the mix. It was I believe every bit as prestigious as Vassar and Sarah Lawrence.

 

I

[solotrek]

2 hours ago, dustylil said:

But journalism is a graduate program at Columbia. So at that point  in time of no great significance to Rory.

Good point.

 

2 hours ago, dustylil said:

I wonder why Emily's alma mater Smith was never in the mix. It was I believe every bit as prestigious as Vassar and Sarah Lawrence.

After Lorelai's freakout with Rory applying to one of their alma maters, I can't even imagine what she would do if Rory applied to both.

[txhorns79]

Quote

After Lorelai's freakout with Rory applying to one of their alma maters, I can't even imagine what she would do if Rory applied to both.

God, Lorelai was such a child in that moment.  How pathetic was it that Rory felt she had to hide what schools she was applying to from her mother? 

[hippielamb]

14 hours ago, Eeksquire said:

I LOVE that scene - "Maybe he'll take you to a ball game!" I think the relationship between Lorelai and Richard is one of the best on this show.  It's not always good, but somehow I find it believable all of the time - sometimes the battles between Lorelai and Emily are a little too over the top and unrealistic for me.

I do too! The distant yet loving father thing is something that a lot of people can probably relate to. I just like him more than Emily. It was interesting that he admitted to Lorelai that he didn't want Emily and Trix in cahoots. He's comfortable with their antagonistic relationship.

[junienmomo]

The loving part of "distant yet loving" escapes me. Richard was detached from family life, clearly by choice, with him focusing on his job instead. It fit their stereotype of a rich corporate family in which the father earns and the mother manages the family.

Loving? Not so much. He loved Rory after he got to know her, but (excuse me if I'm too far away from season 3 here), he didn't behave lovingly toward Lorelai. He didn't care about her breakup with Christopher, doesn't defend her right to mother Rory as she pleases and goes around her authority to trick Rory into a Yale interview. Even the Season 2 (?) balcony escape, where Richard covers for her, is treating her like a teenager, not the person she is. A loving parent would have taken her downstairs, informed Emily in no uncertain terms that Lorelai deserves to lead her own life, and protectively escorted to the door so she could leave like she deserved to. Even the $75,000 was given to her with the statement that "this isn't charity or generosity, it's the law." 

[Smad]

Lorelai and Richard don't have any kind of relationship to speak of IMO. He has zero interest in her unless she does something that either besmirches or bolsters the family name. He doesn't respect her authority as Rory's parent. He couldn't care less whether Lorelai comes to FNDs or having any contact with her at all. Which is why his speech in Bon Voyage never made sense to me. If anyone should have said that it's Emily. Lorelai and Richard are distant relatives at most and I fail to see the love on his end.

[elang4]

I liked The Tale of Poes and Fire. I think it was nice to see another episode where the whole town comes together in a crisis. Everyone helping out Lorelai, Sookie and Michel was really sweet. And then Lorelai ending up at Luke's and her finally telling her about her dream. Very sweet! :)

Edited June 11, 2016 by elang4

[txhorns79]

Quote

Even the $75,000 was given to her with the statement that "this isn't charity or generosity, it's the law."

Wasn't Lorelai acting very reluctant to take the money?  I think that was just Richard's way of saying to her that the check isn't being given with strings. 

Quote

Even the Season 2 (?) balcony escape, where Richard covers for her, is treating her like a teenager, not the person she is. A loving parent would have taken her downstairs, informed Emily in no uncertain terms that Lorelai deserves to lead her own life, and protectively escorted to the door so she could leave like she deserved to.

I thought his letting her sneak out was a loving scene.  I mean, he appeared to have already consented to the event that Emily set up, so it would be a little weird for him to then turn around, and lecture/undermine Emily, in front of Lorelai, about how she was allowed to behave towards Lorelai.  I completely agree that Lorelai and Richard had a distant relationship, and he could have done a lot more to take an interest in her. 

[dustylil]

6 hours ago, junienmomo said:

The loving part of "distant yet loving" escapes me. Richard was detached from family life, clearly by choice, with him focusing on his job instead. It fit their stereotype of a rich corporate family in which the father earns and the mother manages the family.

Loving? Not so much. He loved Rory after he got to know her, but (excuse me if I'm too far away from season 3 here), he didn't behave lovingly toward Lorelai. He didn't care about her breakup with Christopher

I agree. Richard lived his life as he wished to. Other people came a distant second to his needs and comforts. And for someone who put so much emphasis on duty, his defense and praise of Christopher continued to astound me. When had Christopher ever done his duty to his elder child?

[txhorns79]

Quote

And for someone who put so much emphasis on duty, his defense and praise of Christopher continued to astound me. When had Christopher ever done his duty to his elder child?

I think at some point Richard says he isn't all that enthralled with Christopher, just that he respected Christopher's ability to do the right thing at the right time when the pregnancy occurred, as compared to Lorelai's actions in running away and shunning her parents.     

Quote

 

Richard lived his life as he wished to.

 

Is there anyone on the show that didn't live their lives as they wished to?  The only person I could really think of might be Emily, since we saw hints that she wished she had a life beyond being a good wife and hostess.  Even for all of Lorelai's talk of self-sacrifice, she was living her life as she pleased, and in many ways was just as rigid as her parents as to how things should be.   

Edited June 11, 2016 by txhorns79

[dustylil]

 Christopher - once, as a teenager - offers to marry Lorelai and then gets a free pass on duty and responsibility for the next couple of decades. What a sweet deal!

1 hour ago, txhorns79 said:

Is there anyone on the show that didn't live their lives as they wished to?

Sure. Luke when he was lumbered with Jess. Lorelai once she had taken out the Chilton loan. Paris after her Harvard interview freak-out. Lane with her honeymoon twins. Sookie with her third and utterly unexpected pregnancy. It is likely I missed a few.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Christopher - once, as a teenager - offers to marry Lorelai and then gets a free pass on duty and responsibility for the next couple of decades. What a sweet deal!

I don't think Richard ever suggested that.  I think Richard's only point was that he didn't much care for Christopher, but was even less enthralled with Lorelai's choices which he viewed as more destructive. 

Quote

 

Sure. Luke when he was lumbered with Jess. Lorelai once she had taken out the Chilton loan. Paris after her Harvard interview freak-out. Lane with her honeymoon twins. Sookie with her third and utterly unexpected pregnancy. It is likely I missed a few.

 

I'm not sure I follow any of these examples.  They all lived their lives as they wished.  As far as I know, none of the situations you laid out were forced on any of the characters against their will.  Even with Jess, Luke may have felt obligated, but he certainly maintained the right to refuse.  After all, he sent Jess packing once, didn't he?  The same would go for Sookie and Lane's pregnancies, which as far as I know, neither was forced to maintain against their will.  Situations rose up, sometimes unexpectedly, sometimes because the characters made bad choices.  However, what it comes down to is the characters made their choices, and lived their lives as they pleased.  

However, if these kind of situations mean that someone was not living life as they wished, then Richard most certainly did not life as he wished.  I doubt if he had, had his way, he would have had a teenage daughter get pregnant, then run away and shun he and Emily while keeping their grandchild mostly away from them.  I doubt he would have been forced into retirement, then almost lost his business.  I doubt he would have separated from Emily, or fought with his mother shortly before her unexpected death.  The list could go on.            

Edited June 11, 2016 by txhorns79

[Eeksquire]

On a totally different note, can we discuss for a moment how annoying an unrealistic it is that Jess wasn't going to graduate from Stars Hollow High and NO ONE from the school ever contacted Luke? He missed 31 days of school and no one ever called Luke? At my high school, even after I turned 18 and was legally an adult, my parents had to call in and explain why I wasn't there or else they would have called to notify my parents and find out on their own.

It wouldn't cut it that the principal tried to talk to set up meetings with Jess nine times or whatever the principal says he did - Jess is a minor.  Luke should have been told when Jess missed school.  And told again. And again. And again. It makes me crazy.

[hippielamb]

11 hours ago, junienmomo said:

The loving part of "distant yet loving" escapes me. Richard was detached from family life, clearly by choice, with him focusing on his job instead. It fit their stereotype of a rich corporate family in which the father earns and the mother manages the family.

Loving? Not so much. He loved Rory after he got to know her, but (excuse me if I'm too far away from season 3 here), he didn't behave lovingly toward Lorelai. He didn't care about her breakup with Christopher, doesn't defend her right to mother Rory as she pleases and goes around her authority to trick Rory into a Yale interview. Even the Season 2 (?) balcony escape, where Richard covers for her, is treating her like a teenager, not the person she is. A loving parent would have taken her downstairs, informed Emily in no uncertain terms that Lorelai deserves to lead her own life, and protectively escorted to the door so she could leave like she deserved to. Even the $75,000 was given to her with the statement that "this isn't charity or generosity, it's the law." 

Well, I think Richard does love her he just doesn't know how to express it. I love that in the pilot when Lorelai needs money he is ready to give it to her with no strings. They are estranged, yet she needs help so he's going to help her. It's what a father does. He treats Lorelai like a teenager because that's where their relationship is stuck at. I love the balcony scene when he lets her go out the window. He knows it's going to annoy Emily but he lets her go anyway. I think he does care about her break-up with Chris, but he is identifying with Chris in that situation.   

Yes, he is detached but he cares about Lorelai. His role in the family fits the corporate lifestyle but it happens in other families too. I may be over-identifying because my father was similar to Richard in many ways, and many men of that generation had that same mindset. I know men in their 30's/40's who are just like that. Work, work, work, let the wife handle the kids and home. 

2 hours ago, dustylil said:

 Christopher - once, as a teenager - offers to marry Lorelai and then gets a free pass on duty and responsibility for the next couple of decades. What a sweet deal!

 

Richard believes in making sacrifices for the good of the family, or in doing what is expected. Chris was ready to do that. I don't think he wanted to do it, and Lorelai knew that which makes sense why she turned him down. Years later, Chris is ready to marry Sherry and support her and the baby. Again, it's not what he wants but he is willing to make that sacrifice. I think Richard respects that about him. 

54 minutes ago, Eeksquire said:

On a totally different note, can we discuss for a moment how annoying an unrealistic it is that Jess wasn't going to graduate from Stars Hollow High and NO ONE from the school ever contacted Luke? He missed 31 days of school and no one ever called Luke? At my high school, even after I turned 18 and was legally an adult, my parents had to call in and explain why I wasn't there or else they would have called to notify my parents and find out on their own.

It wouldn't cut it that the principal tried to talk to set up meetings with Jess nine times or whatever the principal says he did - Jess is a minor.  Luke should have been told when Jess missed school.  And told again. And again. And again. It makes me crazy.

Maybe Jess was intercepting the notices mailed home. But it does stretch believability.