TWD Season 7 Anticipation - Evil Cliffhanger from Hell

[The Mighty Peanut]

 

Hershel talking about finding out what's worth dying for

 

You like baseball, you risk your life

 

I'M SORRY I'M SO SORRY I HAD TO

[HalcyonDays]

You like baseball, you risk your life

 

I'M SORRY I'M SO SORRY I HAD TO

 

[Sighed I]

 

Look, I'm supposed to be working but I had to throw this in because I've been in deep thought about it. 

 

Ha! Me too. I have not been very productive all week.

 

 

I think Rick really was breaking but I also think that it was strategic breaking.  Negan wanted to punish HIM.  He didn't care about the others - they are just new slaves.  But he was going to make Rick pay for his actions.  It was the first thing he said.  I think if Rick stared him down like Carl, Michonne and Abe he would have killed every last one of them.  He dared Rick to defy him.  Just like Joe and the Claimers, Rick was told that his punishment would be to watch the people he loves killed in front of him FIRST.  Negan wanted a show of bravado.  Rick instead showed him his belly.  Why do I think that was calculation?  Because in the moment of your death, when you are actually with the people closest to your heart, you look at them.  You die with their image in you retinas.  That's instinct.  That is natural.  But notice Rick looked at the ground, he never once looked at Michonne, never once at Carl.  He didn't want Negan to know which death would hurt him the most.  That was strategy - to make Negan pick rather than showing him who to choose.  To the bitter end Rick protected who he could the only way he could.

 

Precisely. He already knew Negan had him, as Abe so colorfully once said, by the short and curlies and then some (mother dick, I can't believe how many Abe-isms I've been using lately, but they've been more applicable to this episode than any other). The only defense Rick had left was to give Negan as little information or incentive than he already had to destroy Rick's people.

 

 

Which leads me to who I think Negan chose.  I think he chose Glenn.  The reason is because Negan is a calculating sadist.  He knows that Carl's death would hurt Rick the most but there is wisdom in keeping Carl alive.  For starters, if he killed the child, NONE of the adults would ever comply and he would lose the whole crop.  And knowing that he is going to keep Rick breathing in order to torture him, he knows that he will be most tortured by the POSSIBILITY of harm to Carl.  If Carl died, Rick would most likely simply be suicidal and utterly useless and impervious to threats.  So knowing that, my guess is that Negan went for the most impact.  He needed to SEE somebody devastated by the death of a loved one - not just a friend.  Glenn's outburst showed him that Maggie was his woman and most likely this love is reciprocal.  He was with three separate couples but he did not know that because our awesome CDB played the poker game to the last card.  So my guess is that he wanted to hear somebody really scream and really cry and the best bet would be Maggie for Glenn.  Not a spoiler, just my guess.

 

Sadly, I agree. I really, really hate it, because Glenn has been one of my favorite characters from the very beginning. As one of, if not the first Asian American man on TV to play a vital, heroic and romantic lead who just happens to be Korean, he is also an important, groundbreaking character, especially for Asian Americans (myself included). His loss would be enormous, and not easily replaced.

 

The way I see it, the victim is most likely a man. Seeing it from the victim's point of view, after the first blow, he seems to stagger back up. The only female character I could see having the physical and mental strength to manage that is Michonne, but I think she is too important to upcoming story lines and thus has plot armor. Furthermore, Negan's "taking it like a champ" seems like something one would say to a man.

 

The Grimes men are out for a variety of reasons, including the line about feeding Carl's last eye to Rick if anyone moves. Aaron and Eugene aren't important enough (yet) to the group and the audience at large to have the devastating impact this individual's death is supposed to have to be a game-changer.

 

This leaves Daryl, Abe and Glenn. Abe would be the "easiest" of the three to kill off if they wanted to avoid killing one of the Atlanta 5, but I still think the implication is this will be the group's biggest loss yet, and for that to be the case, that leaves Daryl and Glen.

 

The loss of either would absolutely rock the group to its core. If I had to choose--not that I'd want to--I'd go with Daryl, in part because his presence as Rick's right hand man appears to have supplanted other characters who were originally intended to fulfill that role (according to those who read the comic). Plus I haven't seen that all much character growth from him since early on in the series so I'm not convinced the writers totally know what to do with him. But as has been discussed before, he is The Face of TWD and I just don't see AMC risking their cash cow right now.

 

For these reasons, along with the excellent arguments you presented, that leaves poor Glenn as the last man standing. :`(

Edited April 7, 2016 by Sighed I

[catcory]

From my understanding Negan has some sort of code wherein he does not kill children or women, children for the obvious reason and women because he fancies himself to be this ladies man so he would think he could get these women into his harem.  He would think that Michonne, Sasha and Rosita will be future conquests.  But since I don't read the comics I could be wrong about this.

 

I was at a meeting (an informal luncheon meeting) and one of the guys said, "don't be such a dick" and I said "mother dick" and they all looked at me and cracked up.  I am just praying that I don't find out a friend is pregnant and I ask if she was intending to make pancakes when they poured the Bisquick, LOL!!!

Edited April 7, 2016 by catcory

[slade3]

From my understanding Negan has some sort of code wherein he does not kill children or women, children for the obvious reason and women because he fancies himself to be this ladies man so he would think he could get these women into his harem.  He would think that Michonne, Sasha and Rosita will be future conquests.  But since I don't read the comics I could be wrong about this.

 

I've read some debate about this. Some say he does kill women. And didn't someone from Hilltop say he killed a boy in front of them?

 

From the IGN Gimple interview I posted the other day, Gimple mentions season 7 will take place in several locales. I assume he means Alexandria, Hilltop, The Kingdom (armored guys) and wherever the Saviors live. 

 

My guess is that Maggie will leave Alexandria and live in Hilltop (which could be another indicator that Glenn is the victim. I hope he's alive and goes with her, but the question would then become why does she feel the need to go there if Glenn is alive?); Rick and Carl will stay in Alexandria (with Michonne, hopefully) to handle Negan and continue to create a community together; Carol and Morgan will go to The Kingdom; and we'll see some Negan episodes where he lives.

 

Someone had a theory on another forum that intrigued me. They posted a gif of the moment Negan meets eyes with Michonne during the line up. He certainly seems to acknowledge her defiance, and he nods. In the comics Negan says something like

"There are a lot of things I can think to do with you and killing you is at the bottom of the list."

They decided to omit that comment on the show, but the theory is that this tiny acknowledgment from him could mean Michonne is the person he develops the "strange respect" for, along with Carl, that Gimple mentions, and this could mean a Michonne/Carl take down of Negan. I love this theory and hope there's some truth to it. (Someone else predicted it would be Enid, which is less intriguing to me.)

 

Of course that little nod Negan gives Michonne could mean he's decided on her, but I agree with those who say her locks would have been caught in the barbed wire.

 

Edited to add the link to the Gimple article again:

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/04/the-walking-dead-jeffrey-dean-morgan-and-scott-gimples-13-season-7-teases

Edited April 7, 2016 by slade3

[AngelaHunter]

To me, the fist-to-the-solar-plexus impact of seeing who Negan killed and the horrified reactions to that killing is forever lost. The months of waiting to find out will seriously dilute it, and I think by that time I'll be thinking "Ho hum."

 

I really can't believe TPTB - the ones who earn the big bucks -  thought this was a good move. The level of pissed-of fans must be off the scale.

[Dodginblue]

Maybe this will be like Dallas or Newhart, back in the day, and next season's show will open with Rick in the shower and we'll find out that the whole Negan thing was just a dream.  No?  No, I guess not.

 

I imagine the actors  on their knees in that clearing having to wait patiently for the next six months.  Which only seems fair, if we're stuck waiting for the outcome, they should be paralyzed in that moment in time as well.   I joke of course.  

 

I don't have any opinion about the character getting killed.  If Negan were standing over me with Lucille threatening to brain me if I didn't make a guess, I'd probably go with Aaron.

 

I think this partly because as annoying as so many people found the cliff-hanger I think people will be equally as annoyed that the great reveal turns out to be a character that we haven't really gotten to know that much and don't have any serious connection to in the overall context of the group.  It's sort of a double whammy, creating all this angst about NOT KNOWING just to have it be something not especially worth having to wait for.  Which is maybe why it was done this way.

 

The same could be said for just about any of the characters, excepting Rick.  And I limit the choices to the adult male characters because I don't think it will be any of the women or Carl.  Abraham and Eugene, both of whom I like, are novelty characters in many ways and aren't really necessary to advancing the show.  Glenn we've already thought was dead at least once so it would be hard to work up a lot of emotion if he finally does get it now.  

 

Daryl's departure might be shocking except his main relationship is with Carol, who's already gone from the group and seems to be connected to Morgan now.  He has a strong bond with Rick but he's not Rick's main relationship, which is with Carl and Michonne.   Daryl's kind of the odd man out these days.  

 

 

 

 

[cincivic]

I didn't mind the cliffhanger but I wasn't crazy about it. Why do a cliffhanger in today's age with shows being able to be easily spoiled? I wanted to see Negan kill someone, and we see who it is, and then say something like"Since you killed so many of my people, I think killing one more of yours is fair." Something along that vein.

I am.leaning towards Glenn or Abraham.

[GreyBunny]

If Glenn is the victim and

TV Maggie blames Rick for his death like Comic Maggie does, then she needs to shut up and have a seat.  She was the one who negotiated the deal with Gregory, bragged about how killing bad guys is what CDB does best, and she was all gung-ho to go stabby-stabby on the Saviors. 

 

ETA:  Put in the spoiler tag because there's a comic reference.  Not sure if those spoilers are allowed so just to be safe.

Edited April 9, 2016 by GreyBunny

[AnnaMayWong]

⬆Exactly ⬆

[slade3]

If Glenn is the victim and

TV Maggie blames Rick for his death, then she needs to shut up and have a seat.  She was the one who negotiated the deal with Gregory, bragged about how killing bad guys is what CDB does best, and she was all gung-ho to go stabby-stabby on the Saviors. 

I agree. But I'm really starting to believe this is how it's going to play out.

[morgankobi]

I don't think any of that above is a spoiler.

 

I am kind of enjoying how "The Spoiling Dead Fans" site has seemed to have taken this as a challenge. They are hell-bent on spoiling the death quickly out of spite. I'm getting popcorn!

Edited April 9, 2016 by morgankobi

[molshoop]

I think they are going to kill Abraham and then take Maggie hostage. I'm sure they have a doctor.
If they didn't, they would have taken Hilltop's.

 

They will get Maggie well and save the baby.  By taking her, they have a twofer.

[HalcyonDays]

Created a little poll for fun and curiousity, to see how right or wrong we all might be in the fall...

 

POLL - Season 6 Cliffhanger - Who Was It?

[Eyes High]

I think they are going to kill Abraham and then take Maggie hostage. I'm sure they have a doctor.

If they didn't, they would have taken Hilltop's.

 

They will get Maggie well and save the baby.  By taking her, they have a twofer.

Wasn't Primo (the Saviour who claimed to be Negan that Rick popped) a doctor? I suppose they could have more than one, given their numbers.

[molshoop]

Sorry, I didn't even remember his name, much less his occupation.

In case it hasn't been mentioned in another thread, I don't think it will be Aaron.

They just killed a gay character.  There will be justified protests if they kill another one.

 

Have we ever seen Aaron's partner in more than just that one episode?

[rogueprinzess]

From my understanding Negan has some sort of code wherein he does not kill children or women, children for the obvious reason and women because he fancies himself to be this ladies man so he would think he could get these women into his harem.  He would think that Michonne, Sasha and Rosita will be future conquests.  But since I don't read the comics I could be wrong about this.

 

 

I've read some debate about this. Some say he does kill women. And didn't someone from Hilltop say he killed a boy in front of them?

 

From my understanding, comic Negan didn't believe in brutalizing women and children. He would and could kill women/children if he wanted to, but not by Lucille per se. Comic Negan is someone who liked to play with people, especially those that presented a challenge to him mentally or tactically.

In the comics, Negan is intrigued by Rick and Carl; Rick because of Rick's inner strength and willingness to fight him and Carl because of how hardened he was at such a young age (keep in mind that in the comics, Carl was still about 12  yrs old). So with that in mind, those two are safe as kittens from Lucille methinks - for now.

 

As for the moment with Michonne, as someone mentioned upthread, I think Negan acknowledged that Michonne was strong and beautiful but not necessarily a threat. Michonne's appearance is one that could lead many a man to underestimate her. Smaller frame and some muscle wouldn't likely register to someone Negan's size as a threat, but he's never seen her in action (if only Merle & the Govnuh were still alive to school him) nor does he realize how deep those still waters run. No, I agree that he's looking at her (and all the other women) as future harem material at best, worker bees at worst.

[EllenC]

I don't feel like "our" Lucille victim is a woman (which probably means it is!), but when Glenn saw the bulletin board of Polaroids of victims at the Savior compound, I had the impression that some were female. Now, why I would have that impression, when they all were clearly beaten beyond recognition, I don't know--doesn't make much sense. And my attention was more on Glenn, anyway. Anybody remember?

[FilmPimp]

I don't feel like "our" Lucille victim is a woman (which probably means it is!), but when Glenn saw the bulletin board of Polaroids of victims at the Savior compound, I had the impression that some were female. Now, why I would have that impression, when they all were clearly beaten beyond recognition, I don't know--doesn't make much sense. And my attention was more on Glenn, anyway. Anybody remember?

They were all men.

Which reminds me I only spotted one female in that crowd of Saviors. If you look closely she's standing near the RV with her arms akimbo. Brave lady.

Edited April 8, 2016 by FilmPimp

[catrox14]

I get this vibe from Negan that he wants women in the group for many reasons

 

1) Pretty women for himself for sex and whatnot

2) More women to do the actual work and theoretically more easy to control than the men

3) View all other alpha men as threats and he will bash them first so I think any of the guys in Rick's group, including Rick he would be happy to bash in the face

 

IMO his threat to Maggie about you look like shit...was just a threat. IMO he didn't intend to kill her ever.

[slade3]

From my understanding, comic Negan didn't believe in brutalizing women and children. He would and could kill women/children if he wanted to, but not by Lucille per se. Comic Negan is someone who liked to play with people, especially those that presented a challenge to him mentally or tactically.

In the comics, Negan is intrigued by Rick and Carl; Rick because of Rick's inner strength and willingness to fight him and Carl because of how hardened he was at such a young age (keep in mind that in the comics, Carl was still about 12  yrs old). So with that in mind, those two are safe as kittens from Lucille methinks - for now.

 

As for the moment with Michonne, as someone mentioned upthread, I think Negan acknowledged that Michonne was strong and beautiful but not necessarily a threat. Michonne's appearance is one that could lead many a man to underestimate her. Smaller frame and some muscle wouldn't likely register to someone Negan's size as a threat, but he's never seen her in action (if only Merle & the Govnuh were still alive to school him) nor does he realize how deep those still waters run. No, I agree that he's looking at her (and all the other women) as future harem material at best, worker bees at worst.

Thanks for the info about Negan and the comics. I'm so curious how the show is going to let this play out.

 

I hadn't considered he underestimated Michonne at all. Interesting.

 

What I've read about Negan lately makes me more confident Rick, Carl and Michonne are safe. They seem to have too much story to tell where this guy is concerned. (Rick and Carl were never really on my list of potentials, but it's a show, so I never believe everyone is safe.)

[HighMaintenance]

Sorry, I didn't even remember his name, much less his occupation.

In case it hasn't been mentioned in another thread, I don't think it will be Aaron.

They just killed a gay character.  There will be justified protests if they kill another one.

 

Have we ever seen Aaron's partner in more than just that one episode?

Aaron's partner, Eric, has been seen, but only on the periphery.  *Sorry, I like to play "Spot the Ginger" when I watch TV*.  Since the epi where the 2 boys have dinner with Darryl, I think he was seen in the crowd at porch-dick's execution, and then more noticeably seen in the aftermath of the horde clearing, wearing a big white leg brace.  I mostly forget that Aaron is partnered up since he never mentions Eric or seems to just traipse off with Maggie or CDB without a worry or mention of Eric.  It's almost like he has a case of Greene family relationship amnesia.

[FilmPimp]

I mostly forget that Aaron is partnered up since he never mentions Eric or seems to just traipse off with Maggie or CDB without a worry or mention of Eric.  It's almost like he has a case of Greene family relationship amnesia.

Thank you! It's like anyone who comes near Maggie and Glenn gets sucked into their relationship black hole. It's kinda annoying. And what's with all the gay characters owing them? First Tara, now Aaron. How does he owe Maggie?!

[TigerLynx]

I agree. But I'm really starting to believe this is how it's going to play out.

 

I don't see how Rick can be blamed for everyone's current situation.  Quite a few of them agreed with Rick, Maggie, and Daryl about the deal they made with Hilltop to take out the Saviors.  Daryl left Alexandria, and Glenn, Michonne, and Rosita chased after him.  Maggie was ill, Rick decided to take her to Hilltop, and not only did several people agree with him, there were also several people who demanded to go along with him.

 

When the "Who shot JR?" SL was written, not only was it easier to keep a secret, it was also an SL that had not been done to death at that point.  After that, several shows would have cliffhangers every year.  Some of them involved disasters which threatened the lives of everyone, however, when they would return the next season, all the main cast members would have survived, and only minor characters were killed off.  It got boring and lame.  I thought the scene where Kimberly on Melrose Place took off her wig was way more interesting than Kimberly blowing up the apartment building.

 

Whether it's Glenn, Daryl, etc., or a red shirt character that gets Lucilled, I still think they lost the power of the moment by doing a cliffhanger.

[slade3]

I don't see how Rick can be blamed for everyone's current situation.  Quite a few of them agreed with Rick, Maggie, and Daryl about the deal they made with Hilltop to take out the Saviors.  Daryl left Alexandria, and Glenn, Michonne, and Rosita chased after him.  Maggie was ill, Rick decided to take her to Hilltop, and not only did several people agree with him, there were also several people who demanded to go along with him.

 

I'd read that Gimple and Reedus were blaming Rick on Talking Dead, but I didn't watch the episode, so it's only secondhand for me. And then there are the comics. But I agree that no one should blame Rick. He didn't even want half of them to ride in the RV to Hilltop and they insisted, as you mention. And don't get me started on Daryl's recklessness.

 

Speaking of Daryl, has his noisy motorcycle ever been discussed? I've been rewatching episodes, and it just gets me when they're all "Don't shoot the guns; it'll draw the walkers' attention" and then Daryl revs up his bike and takes off. Not to mention hoe silly it is to be so exposed when you could be in a car. The motorcycle takes me out of the show.

[lulee]

Aaron's partner, Eric, has been seen, but only on the periphery. *Sorry, I like to play "Spot the Ginger" when I watch TV*. Since the epi where the 2 boys have dinner with Darryl, I think he was seen in the crowd at porch-dick's execution, and then more noticeably seen in the aftermath of the horde clearing, wearing a big white leg brace. I mostly forget that Aaron is partnered up since he never mentions Eric or seems to just traipse off with Maggie or CDB without a worry or mention of Eric. It's almost like he has a case of Greene family relationship amnesia.

Eh, I think the show established clearly who Aaron goes home to at night, and after his injury that Eric wouldn't be on the road with Aaron. So I think it's just that Aaron is still not top tier in terms of airtime and story time. Aaron and Eric's relationship was introduced, has never been indicated as faltering, but doesn't make the script when there has to be time to show Abraham talking about pancakes or one-eyed puppy love with Carl and Enid, for example.

[Ocean Chick]

My money is on Abe.  But frankly after seven months, I won't care who it is.  At least I'll have a summer I can enjoy without having to feel like I need to follow spoilers so closely, so there's that.

[Sighed I]

Created a little poll for fun and curiousity, to see how right or wrong we all might be in the fall...

 

POLL - Season 6 Cliffhanger - Who Was It?

 

 

For a little fun, I decided to create a poll to see who people are leaning to, as the victim of Negan/Lucille. The show may follow the comics, or it may vastly stray. Gimple/Kirkman said they would stray. But at this point, we just don't know yet....So why not a poll for fun and to see which ones' of us will end up being right!   (you'll notice the names are in alphabetical order).

 

If they do indeed stray from the comics, my money's on Abraham. He's had a lot of character development all season, which is usually the kiss of death. Plus there's the whole "we may have 30 years here" and the making pancakes discussions with Sasha. And yes, the writers successfully manipulated me into finally liking Abe, even though we've seen this trick many times before and I should know better by now.

 

They've been planting the seeds for different characters all season precisely to fuel this debate, manipulative bastards. Glenn for obvious reasons, plus the fake out death and the "people you've lost live on in your heart" discussion with Enid. Daryl getting his crossbow stolen from him not once, but twice. Maggie and Glenn making pancakes and Maggie's health issues; Carol's crisis of conscience and reluctance to kill; Morgan's all life is precious pontificating, turning a lot of the audience against him (another old trick in the TWD writers' handbook); etc. etc. Unless Carol dies from her injuries and/or the horse dudes end up being eeevul, neither of which I believe will be the case, I'm pretty comfortable saying they're safe. Beyond that, though...

 

Fucking Gimple and Co. They have us right where they want us. :-P :-P :-P

Edited April 8, 2016 by Sighed I

[TVFan17]

You know, cliffhangers have dominated this week -- and not just on TWD.  As most of us know, all this week people from all over the Internet and in assorted forms of media have been talking about, venting about and analyzing the cliffhanger from hell on TWD.  There has barely been talk of anything else -- that cliffhanger is big news.

 

I don't know if anyone here happened to see the series finale of American Idol last night, but even it ended in a cliffhanger!!!!!  To be honest, I truly think that the Idol folks deliberately ended the final show with a cliffhanger because of the intense buzz surrounding TWD's cliffhanger on Sunday night.  They saw what TWD's cliffhanger drummed up across America, conversation-wise, and they decided to play with it.  

 

If TWD had not ended that way on Sunday, driving many people to the brink of madness, I suspect that the American Idol folks would not have turned out the lights to have Ryan Seacrest's voice say from the darkness, "...good night, America... FOR NOW."  (Since this was supposed to be the actual series finale and 'goodbye forever,' the "FOR NOW" was apparently shocking to a lot of people, hinting at a return in the future.)  I think that they probably would have just stayed silent about any possible return until plans were finalized.  Now, of course, people are talking, speculating and analyzing what the "For now" means, and it turns out that there is a plan to try to bring the show back after a while.

 

I can't handle too many more of my shows going out with cliffhangers and leaving me hanging for 6 months... or indefinitely!  I'm too old for this stress!  Damn you, TWD, for putting this idea in other shows' minds!

[Sighed I]

If TWD had not ended that way on Sunday, driving many people to the brink of madness,

LOL! Too true.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Sighed I

[SharonH58]

I need to know what happened to Keanu?  Is he safe?  Did he get returned to his owners?   I can't wait to find out!!! 

[morgankobi]

Speaking of poor Keanu, everyone has seen Key & Peele's post-apocalypse skit, right?

 

Often we fuss about how an episode all about redeeming or highlighting a character means their impending doom, mostly because it spoils the surprise. But it does serve a purpose, and often deepens understanding and backstory making the death more poignant. This cliffhanger has erased any of that for throughout the last few episodes.

 

I am not fussing because I don't know the answer (and I'm tired of people lazily making that accusation of anyone not happy with the cliffhanger-in general, not singling out anyone here), I am fussing because I feel this is a poor way to tell a story, and I feel that I have a pretty good compass for such things.

 

And FPP still dies in the process. Damnit!

Edited April 9, 2016 by morgankobi

[RabbitEars]

The cruelest thing TWD did was put this song back in my head:

"You picked a fine time to leave me, Lucille."

[TVFan17]

It's not the general premise of cliffhangers that bothers me.  Cliffhangers of some sort, on some level or another, happen at pretty much the end of every season of almost every scripted series.  There is usually a cliffhanger at the end of every Walking Dead season, with maybe only one or 2 exceptions.  There are also mid-season cliffhangers.  We get our fill of cliffhangers from TWD and other shows.

 

But this particular Negan/Lucille cliffhanger is a different thing because the way it is being handled is actually killing the momentum for me, which lessens the shock, horror and sadness I was supposed to feel when whoever it was got the bat.  I would have felt all of those things if it had been made clear right then and there in that one episode who it was that got killed.  I didn't need to see the person's brains bashed in, but simply seeing the other characters reacting to it and then hearing someone mention who it was would have been enough.  And then the cliffhanger could have been how Rick and the gang get away from Negan.  That kind of shocking event should happen at the end of an episode -- not at the beginning, in my opinion. 

 

And then, also, this cliffhanger from hell just added fuel to the fire that was already burning from the stupid dumpster/Glenn cliffhanger.  That was another situation where TWD folks thought they were being clever by letting everyone stew for a few weeks, wondering if Glenn really died -- only to finally show that he miraculously slid under a dumpster.  By the time that episode aired, a lot of people had lost the same urgent sense of interest in it because the momentum was killed.   So this Lucille cliffhanger is just a repeat of the dumpster fiasco, with a much, much longer wait for the revelation.

 

That's why I'm glad there are people out there "on the case," looking for signs of who is seen filming when filming resumes.  At least those of us who like spoilers will have the likely "who died" answer sooner than October, even if we won't see how it actually plays out until then.

[SteviaInTheRaw]

Spoiler alert: I know who got the bat. We did. And now I won't be alive to see the next season.

[econ07]

The way I see it, the victim is most likely a man. Seeing it from the victim's point of view, after the first blow, he seems to stagger back up. The only female character I could see having the physical and mental strength to manage that is Michonne, but I think she is too important to upcoming story lines and thus has plot armor. Furthermore, Negan's "taking it like a champ" seems like something one would say to a man.

 

Completely agree with this ... whether good or evil, no dude calls a woman "champ."

[Sighed I]

Everyone,

 

Since we left season 6 with a major cliffhanger no thanks to Negan, Lucille and Gimple/Kirkman, Carol all shot up and some shady looking people clad in hockey(?) pads confronting Morgan and Carol, there is a lot of discuss and about seven months of time to discuss it. So instead of filling up the episode thread, THIS thread will be dedicated to discussing the end of season 6, what you think will happen, and all of the grumbling anticipation you all have for October.

 

Yes, we have the Watch Duty thread, but it'll be a long time before we get anything that resembles a spoiler to discuss and I except a fair amount of season 7 specific discussion.

 

Note the spoiler tag. Spoilers be here. All Spoilers. If people want a thread to discuss season 7 without spoilers I can do that (just want to see if there is a need). Anticipate Away!!

 

Since it's still early on, might it be possible to make it spoilers prior to and including season 6 and keep the season 7 spoilers in the Watch Duty thread or spoiler tag them here? I've been trying to avoid future spoilers but have felt relatively comfortable posting in this thread since filming hasn't started yet. There's a lot of great discussion in this thread and I would hate to see it have to be split into two season 7 threads. I don't know how others feel about it but thought I'd throw it out there.

[Scribbles]

As someone who only very recently binged TWD to catch up to the 14th episode of S6, it all feels fresh.  Frankly, the idea of a zombie apocalypse just felt too trendy/pop culture to me when the show began and while I love dystopian/apocalyptic stories, zombies and vampires just are not my thing.  Stumbling onto a season six episode on AMC on a night when nothing else was showing I had any desire to watch, I was lured in by the actors and the story.  As a prolific reader of many genres and loads of canonical classics, most of what I watch is spoiled.  The book is almost always better than (or different from) the movie, and that gives me little sympathy for the comic canon arguments because all adaptions of all genres betray the source.  All that said, I hope it allows me to bring something to the table about the finale.

 

Cliffhangers in an age of one button instant gratification are risky.  TWD didn't need on to lure viewers back to season 7 and you have to wonder how much money they are willing to spend to keep the secret for so long.  Just seeing how this story plays out is like a whole other show of its own.

 

I am asking who Negan kills to make an impression that inspires fear and dread to make him a compelling villain with staying power.  He needs to be a coy, strategic villain who can be a menacing because calculation rules him more than delusion or emotion.  The governor gave us the damaged man gone meglamaniac, Negan needs to be rational and purposeful in his brutality.  I think they already messed that up with him a bit in the finale.  If you want to kill someone to inspire fear and break the will of your opponent you don't start with the head bash.  Negan has two audiences, his own followers and Rick's group.  Maybe one head bash to stun but from there the beating needs to whole body and wear down the will of those it is really intended to impact.  Negan doesn't do it to just to get pay back for his lost men, he is making an impression he wants to stick with the survivors for their compliance.  These folks have been living in horror and with threat for a long while, if Negan wants to be the biggest threat to them he has got to make the beating count.  He also needs to make the group produce to support his mini-empire with goods and service so part of his who decision has to weigh how much influence his choice will have and what he gives up by tossing away the potential.  Overlay that with his code (which they have yet to show) and this is his opportunity to show his captive audience the rules of the new order.  He wants to bend their will, not break it to the point they are useless producers.

 

So who serves Negan's purposes:  A male he doesn't need to manipulate cooperation later.  Negan appears to have intel on the group, so he likely knows who will be a valuable addition to his "resources" and would impact the group.  Abraham is at risk because he is a defiant soldier.  Negan has soldiers, he doesn't need defiance that might inspire his new recruits.  Glenn showed his hand to Negan who can now control him or break his will via Maggie.  Two bits about Maggie may qualify her for the exception to his woman code 1. she is right next to the group leader in line and thus proximity to power, symbolically his right hand 2. It gives him a chance to express his woman code, I don't normally blah blah.  Also, in show her declaration of faith in Rick in the episode felt like a victim tag to pain Rick all the more (get ready for the onslaught of female damsel trope anger if so).  Glenn can meet his comic destiny at the hands of (or bat of) Negan at a less predictable moment and be all the more impactful. 

 

Glenn seems to be at the beginning of a couple of stories, Enid and whatever other thing Maggie asked the Governor for could involve him.  He just committed his first murder and that impact hasn't been shown.  Showing it gives a way to bring Heath more into the fold as well.

 

Daryl feels safe to me because he has the most story potential to highlight Dwight.  No one in the group has more reason to doubt Dwight's sincerity more than Daryl and thus build story should Dwight go the route of the comic.  He also gives Negan a chance to show his "code" in the whole not targeting the weak thing.  Also Tara is still in the dark regarding Denise and Daryl is the one best suited to show her finding out with impact.

 

All of that said, the real determinate may be outside the show in terms of contracts and actor availabilities.

[jackjill89]

So if Negan and his group want half of everything from conquered groups and he says he owns everything, what do his Saviors do all day if they're not prepping for continued survival? Sitting around practicing their mustache twirling and monologuing? I am very interested to learn more about the Saviors. How many, where they live, how they relate to Negan, how he keeps such a large and (I would think) spread out group in line. Does he have lieutenants? They killed nearly everyone in that communication building, but didn't even scratch the surface of the number of Saviors there are.

[HalcyonDays]

Since it's still early on, might it be possible to make it spoilers prior to and including season 6 and keep the season 7 spoilers in the Watch Duty thread or spoiler tag them here?

 

Unfortunately, there is already two pages of spoilers - including comics spoilers in here, so this thread is already tainted with too much information information. I'd have to delete half of the thread just to clean it up.

 

I don't mind another thread Spoiler Free for Season 7 Speculation. Thing is, we are going to have a few months before we get any news about season 7, and I wanted to contain all of the season 7 talk into one thread, as opposed to the episode thread. Watch Duty then can be for people to discuss when news starts trickling out.

 

A Spolier Free thread Season 7 Speculation I can create. Whatever you guys think will work the best for you...

[Sighed I]

Unfortunately, there is already two pages of spoilers - including comics spoilers in here, so this thread is already tainted with too much information information. I'd have to delete half of the thread just to clean it up.

 

I don't mind another thread Spoiler Free for Season 7 Speculation. Thing is, we are going to have a few months before we get any news about season 7, and I wanted to contain all of the season 7 talk into one thread, as opposed to the episode thread. Watch Duty then can be for people to discuss when news starts trickling out.

 

A Spolier Free thread Season 7 Speculation I can create. Whatever you guys think will work the best for you...

 

Okay. I must have missed the spoilers upthread, apart from who Negan killed in the comics. Even though I don't read them it's been plastered all over the internet for so long I couldn't avoid finding out. I guess I took for granted it's pretty much common knowledge at this point. It's conceivable some folks still don't know, though, and it wouldn't be fair to delete half the thread either.

 

I guess I will tread carefully here for now, and keep away once the buzz starts after production begins. If there's enough call to warrant a spoiler-free spec thread later, I'll participate in that one.

 

Thanks for the response, HalcyonDays. Figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Sighed I

[rogueprinzess]

So if Negan and his group want half of everything from conquered groups and he says he owns everything, what do his Saviors do all day if they're not prepping for continued survival? Sitting around practicing their mustache twirling and monologuing? I am very interested to learn more about the Saviors. How many, where they live, how they relate to Negan, how he keeps such a large and (I would think) spread out group in line. Does he have lieutenants? They killed nearly everyone in that communication building, but didn't even scratch the surface of the number of Saviors there are.

 

Based on the comics

Negan and - well, mostly - his group keep all their conquered communities "safe" by keeping the walker numbers down around them and protecting them from other potential threats i.e. the Wolves or any other marauding group that's hell bent on killing/pillaging. They also go on runs to find more supplies like fuel, medicine and weapons, though they hoard the majority of those things for themselves or use them to maintain control. The Saviors are supposed to be providing some sort of order in the chaos, but their near-absolute power gets to their heads quite often (especially Negan)  

I never got the sense that most of them were out on the road very long though; especially since they're based out of DC where there was so much mass evacuation/military presence, so I think Rick and Team Fam are in a much better survival position then they are for the most part.

Edited April 10, 2016 by rogueprinzess

[jackjill89]

Thank you rogueprinzess! Now I get why they call themselves Saviors and why they think they are the alpha group. 

[TVFan17]

Tonight, after the season premiere of FTWD and another episode of Talking Dead, Chris Hardwick did a Facebook live chat again.   Did anyone see it?  He did one last week too, but for some reason I forgot to tune in to it then. 

 

Chris was apparently dealing with a lot of angry people who were complaining to him about TWD's cliffhanger from hell last week, and it sounds like he got snappy and cranky with some of them about it??  Tonight he said that he realizes he should have let people have and express their feelings about the cliffhanger -- even though he doesn't agree with those feelings -- and not been so dismissive (not his exact words, but that was the sentiment).  He said he trusts Gimple, et al., to know what they're doing with the story and how it will play out.  He says he thinks that they have no reason to want to piss off the fans since TWD has one of the biggest fan bases of any show on TV, but he thinks that -- even more so now, in the aftermath of the cliffhanger from hell -- they will try hard to do right by everyone and make the wait/payoff worthwhile.

 

We'll see.  It should not have taken a mass outpouring of anger and frustration for Gimple and company to realize that people were not going to be happy with that kind of a season finale after the ridiculous dumpster debacle.  I don't know what made them think it was a good idea to play out the story this way, but we'll see if they can somehow redeem themselves in October.

[lulee]

I imagine/hope years from now, once the series has wrapped, Gimple will say, "Yeah, we should have handled some things differently in Season 6, especially the Glenn dumpster saga." I can imagine that he feels like he has to dig his heels in (and others toe the party line) and defend the storytelling. It would be self-sabotage not to in this media environment. 

The trouble is that any mess is of his/their creation. For a show whose production is sometimes so meticulous, the dumpster scene was so sloppy -- with the relocated dumpster, unbiteable Glenn, etc. It could have been shot in an ambiguous but internally consistent way. I was only convinced that Glenn would somehow survive because I didn't think they'd kill a main character away from all the other characters and then with little chance of discovery, but that was using meta-knowledge about the show's storytelling M.O. not based on the scene itself.

A finale cliffhanger after a truly plausible cliffhanger would have been a lot more palatable to viewers than where we ended up last Sunday. I'll keep tuning in next season, but there's more of a "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." aftertaste.

[slade3]

I was looking at the season 6B key art that was released in January and I'm really surprised that so much given away in it. There's a shot of Carol holding a cross, a shot of the walker wearing Michonne's shirt and vest, a shot of the satellite, and a shot of the RV on the road. I know, at that point, few would have been able to figure out that was Carol's hand with the cross, or Michonne's vest on that walker, but it's all so obvious now. I wonder if they'll do a collage like that for 7.

[Iguessnot]

Tonight, after the season premiere of FTWD and another episode of Talking Dead, Chris Hardwick did a Facebook live chat again.   Did anyone see it?  He did one last week too, but for some reason I forgot to tune in to it then. 

 

Chris was apparently dealing with a lot of angry people who were complaining to him about TWD's cliffhanger from hell last week, and it sounds like he got snappy and cranky with some of them about it??  Tonight he said that he realizes he should have let people have and express their feelings about the cliffhanger -- even though he doesn't agree with those feelings -- and not been so dismissive (not his exact words, but that was the sentiment).  He said he trusts Gimple, et al., to know what they're doing with the story and how it will play out.  He says he thinks that they have no reason to want to piss off the fans since TWD has one of the biggest fan bases of any show on TV, but he thinks that -- even more so now, in the aftermath of the cliffhanger from hell -- they will try hard to do right by everyone and make the wait/payoff worthwhile.

 

We'll see.  It should not have taken a mass outpouring of anger and frustration for Gimple and company to realize that people were not going to be happy with that kind of a season finale after the ridiculous dumpster debacle.  I don't know what made them think it was a good idea to play out the story this way, but we'll see if they can somehow redeem themselves in October.

Well Chris sounds like a true believer. Gimple and company are great at what they do but they are not infallible. They've made some missteps. I don't think they were particularly trying to piss off their fans but it's not about doing right by everyone. It's writing scripts we know they are capable of without resorting to tricks that hurt the stories.

 

Anyway his words show he's a little too close to this or too close to AMC. I tried to watch some of his show after Fear of the Walking Dead and I had to turn it off. All that bubbling enthusiasm and praise for a show that is really awful. They are patting themselves on the back so much I fear there will be a reality series for the producers and writers. Fans can be insatiable. They need to step back and reevaluate their direction.  

[catcory]

Not sure if this belongs here. My son came to visit me last night because he knew that the season was over. He is not a faithful watcher but a lot of his co-workers watch it and always talk about it on Monday. So this past Monday they talked about the finale so this made my son want to watch it so he could be part of the conversation. According to my son while some of them were pissed about the "cliffhanger" they all really enjoyed it more than they thought they would.

My son said what I have basically been saying, we know someone gets killed but do we need to see the deed. We can hear the death blows but would seeing the bat swing down and hit the head of the victim make us like the finale more. I know the show is violent but I don't need or want to see that death on my TV. I know someone will die and when the show returns I will grieve that death with the rest of our gang. No matter who it is, it will still make me sad.

I will be back for season 7 and can't wait for season 6 to come to Netflix.

[TVFan17]

Not sure if this belongs here. My son came to visit me last night because he knew that the season was over. He is not a faithful watcher but a lot of his co-workers watch it and always talk about it on Monday. So this past Monday they talked about the finale so this made my son want to watch it so he could be part of the conversation. According to my son while some of them were pissed about the "cliffhanger" they all really enjoyed it more than they thought they would.

My son said what I have basically been saying, we know someone gets killed but do we need to see the deed. We can hear the death blows but would seeing the bat swing down and hit the head of the victim make us like the finale more. I know the show is violent but I don't need or want to see that death on my TV. I know someone will die and when the show returns I will grieve that death with the rest of our gang. No matter who it is, it will still make me sad.

I will be back for season 7 and can't wait for season 6 to come to Netflix.

 

I don't need to see someone's brains bashed in.  I don't need to see the actual act.  Not seeing gore is not the issue for me.   I would have been fine with seeing the other characters reacting to it, and then someone mentioning the name of who it was who got killed. 

 

The point for me was, not knowing who it was that got killed spoiled the suspense for me and the momentum has now been ruined.  That particular cliffhanger was not necessary -- they could have let us know who it was that got killed and let us be shocked and grieve right then and there, then leave us with a cliffhanger about how the rest of them get away.  I don't know that there was any real point in splitting up the horrific act into 2 episodes -- one now and one in 6 months -- especially after the dumpster issue.

 

It's never been about gore for me -- I am squeamish and I don't like seeing the human on human violence.  I just didn't want the Big Death Scene to be split up into 2 parts and separated by 6 months, because it lets the air out of the balloon for me, and it feels very manipulative (not in a good, clever way).

[TVFan17]

Well Chris sounds like a true believer. Gimple and company are great at what they do but they are not infallible. They've made some missteps. I don't think they were particularly trying to piss off their fans but it's not about doing right by everyone. It's writing scripts we know they are capable of without resorting to tricks that hurt the stories.

 

Anyway his words show he's a little too close to this or too close to AMC. I tried to watch some of his show after Fear of the Walking Dead and I had to turn it off. All that bubbling enthusiasm and praise for a show that is really awful. They are patting themselves on the back so much I fear there will be a reality series for the producers and writers. Fans can be insatiable. They need to step back and reevaluate their direction.  

 

Chris' video Facebook chat from last night is on this page -- https://www.facebook.com/hardwick/timeline.

 

It's mainly supposed to be a post- Fear the Walking Dead episode chat (apparently he does these Facebook chats every so often, but this was the first one I watched), so there will be episode spoilers. 

 

Somewhere in the video -- it could be near the beginning, but I cannot remember -- he gets into the stuff about TWD's cliffhanger and how he should have let people voice their opinion and so on.  And then at some point he will say that he trusts Gimple with the story.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Sherry67