S07.E03: Breaking Apart

[lovesnark]

For the record I said not "many" better options, not "no" better options... So yes having him put up for adoption as a baby probably would have been best, but I don't think it's so black and white that if she really cared for Jace she would have given him up at that point... I think when it's your flesh and blood (albeit by proxy because it's her grandchild) it's not quite so easy to give them up. I'm not 100% saying that Barbra did the best because I do think not having to take part in all this drama would have been better for Jace in the long run, but I don't fault her for the choice either because I don't know what I would do in the same situation, I'm not sure I could give the child up.

Thanks for putting into words what I had in my head. We all wish better things for Jace and hope he can beat the odds. I know several people who had childhoods that were truly horrible and they managed to overcome it and are successful, loving, caring human beings. I also wonder if Barb would have had the legal right to give Jace up for adoption? Jenelle gave her legal guardianship. If Barb tried to let the system take over with Jace, wouldn't they have to legally give Jenelle the final word? I guess if she would have just called CPS when he was a baby instead of stepping in and becoming his guardian, they would have gotten involved and put him in foster care. But, if the system there is anything like it is here, it would have been a revolving door of foster care, back with Jenelle, foster care, back with her, on and on and on. Far too often there are stories in the news here about children that either died as a result of neglect and/or abuse or were found neglected to the point of being close to death and there was a long history of them being taken into foster care and given back to the parent multiple times.

[Lexie]

Barb probably couldn't put jace up for adoption even if she wanted to. Jenelle didn't sign away her parental rights. I think the issue with all of barbs kids is that they grew up around domestic violence. jenelles father plays a part too. At least barb stayed in the picture and did what she could.

Jace would be a lot better off if barb had gone after jenelles parental rights and cut her out of his life. He wouldn't be around screaming and all off jenelles weirdo boyfriends and he wouldnt worry about where he is going to end up living. I don't get why she even allowed the overnights. I wouldn't leave jenelle in charge of a hamster.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Lexie

[SPLAIN]

For the record I said not "many" better options, not "no" better options... So yes having him put up for adoption as a baby probably would have been best, but I don't think it's so black and white that if she really cared for Jace she would have given him up at that point... I think when it's your flesh and blood (albeit by proxy because it's her grandchild) it's not quite so easy to give them up. I'm not 100% saying that Barbra did the best because I do think not having to take part in all this drama would have been better for Jace in the long run, but I don't fault her for the choice either because I don't know what I would do in the same situation, I'm not sure I could give the child up.

AMEN.

[ReadMeLattice]

If she'd called CPS he'd be in foster care or more likely, adopted. He was a white newborn baby...it's screwed up, but people are on waiting lists to adopt them. If he'd ended up in foster care, it'd be a matter of chance...could have been worse, could have been better, depending on the foster parent.

[Darknight]

THIS. I've said it before and I'll say it again. One bad seed? Bad luck. Two? Getting suspicious. 3+? They turned out that way for a reason. In the long run, Jace isn't going to be much better off having been raised by Barbara. That's the sad truth. That boy should've gone into foster care.

Foster care fucks kids up even more. I wouldn't wish any child I foster care unless it's necessary. I'm a foster parent and I've seen what the system does to these kids.

[Darknight]

If she REALLY cared about Jace she would've called social services and had got him in the system while he was still a newborn and easily adoptable. If she had one ounce of self awareness she'd know that she shouldn't be raising him.

The system is all about reunification. Jenelle would still get a chance to get Jace back. Meanwhile cps looks for family members to take the kids in. So Babs would be first in line to get Jace if he was in foster care. Then after a few years Jenelle's rights would be terminated and then Jace would be legally freed for adoption. At this point again cps will want family members to adopt then a foster family. Newborns don't get adopted via foster care. They get adopted via infant adoption.

[Darknight]

I don't know what's wrong with the Evans family. If they all have mental illness and it runs in the family then nobody can be blamed for that. I have a few family members with mental illness. If Barbara and her ex were shitty parents then yes they do hold all the blame. From what was posted Barbara was in an abusive marriage and had a shitty husband. Leaving an abusive relationship isn't easy. Then on top of that she had to raise three kids by herself on min wage. I don't know what's going on with this family. They all need intensive therapy. Jenelle needs meds. I'm not a doctor but she meets all the requirements for borderline personality disorder.

All I do know is that Jace and Kaiser are two innocent kids caught up in this mess. Jenelle should've never gotten pregnant with either kid. She should've listen to her mother and put Jace & Kaiser up for adoption when they were born or terminated her pregnancies if she really didn't want kids. However adoption is in the past now for Jace. He's what 7? He's too old for adoption. He'll be waiting for years for someone to adopt him via foster care. I would never wish a child in foster care unless its necessary. Older kids in foster care age out and don't get adopted. Only babies and young kids do. Kaiser still has a chance. But he has two shitty parents who would never sign their rights away.

Again why won't MTV do something? Help Jace and Kaiser. Get them so therapy. Get them help. Don't just stand back and watch. Money and views aren't more important than children.

[SPLAIN]

Agree Darknight. Well said.

Being in an abusive marriage, the toxic environment and psychological abuse could have enhanced any mental issues Barb may be suffering from. Leaving an abusive relationship does not always mean one has a healthy mind. The effects sometimes continue to linger for years. Barb is also likely dealing with menopause. Dealing with that myself, I feel for Barb in that I don't have to care for a small child while working and having no partner to lean on for support.

[lovesnark]

The system is all about reunification. Jenelle would still get a chance to get Jace back. Meanwhile cps looks for family members to take the kids in. So Babs would be first in line to get Jace if he was in foster care. Then after a few years Jenelle's rights would be terminated and then Jace would be legally freed for adoption. At this point again cps will want family members to adopt then a foster family. Newborns don't get adopted via foster care. They get adopted via infant adoption.

This is it in a nutshell. Let's say Barb called CPS when Jenelle was pretending Jace didn't exist. A caseworker would have tried to convince Barb to be Jace's foster parent. If Barb said no and Jace was placed with a foster family, Jenelle would be given chance after chance after chance to get her shit together and it would have taken a few years for them to petition to terminate her parental rights. He'd probably wind up in foster care until he aged out. The thing that would have been in his best interest is for Jenelle to give him up for adoption when he was born. Barb wanted her to do that but she kept Jace to spite her mother, then neglected him. She hid her pregnancy until an abortion wasn't an option. Barb made it very clear that she could see what was going to happen and that she didn't want to raise another child. But, what do you do when there's a baby - your grandson - in your house crying all night because his mother is out partying with her friends? Ignore him and go about your business? I wouldn't have wanted to be in her shoes for all the money in the world.

[guilfoyleatpp]

I do think that mental instability runs in the family. Not their fault. It's always a crap shoot when you have kids that one one or more parents with a mood disorder, personality disorder, or mental illness.

 

And it could be that the hormonal surges from pregnancy (one or both) caused Jenelle's mental illness to worsen. I knew a woman who had no history of mental illness (although it ran in her family - grandmother), and having a baby at close to 30 somehow impelled her to have a psychotic break with hallucinations and delusions. It was terrible.

 

Jenelle is in no emotional state to be a mommy. Not from what we've seen. Jace will probably grow up to try to make women who have similar personality traits to his mom love him. He'll constantly be trying to resolve the relationship with his mother by acting it out with girls who are also emotionally unavailable. It's a sad cycle.

[BitterApple]

I agree with everyone that for all Barb's faults, she was unfairly placed in a really shitty situation when it came to taking custody of Jace. I think she does the best she can with what she knows, it's just hard to change certain habits when you've been acting them out for fifty plus years.

I think what's really messing Jace up is the sporadic contact he has with his mother. It brings so much tension and stress. Jenelle fights with her boyfriends in front of Jace. When Barb picks him up, she and Jenelle usually have explosive arguments. The best thing that could happen is for Jenelle to move far away and disappear completely.

[shelley1234]

I think it could almost be a dysfunctional best case scenario if Jace just tried to constantly relive trying to get his mother love by trying to date emotionally unavailable women....given his early trend to lash out in violence when he gets upset, it has the potential to be a lot worse.  

Edited April 10, 2016 by shelley1005

[ReadMeLattice]

I agree that they all need intensive therapy. Barbara isn't and wasn't a fit mom, but once Jenelle had made those decisions, she had very few choices. It was unfair of her to call her a whore, etc, though, especially since she also (I believe) was a pregnant teen. Not a good setup to be a good teen mom, with your mom repeatedly calling you a whore. I wish a lifetime of Randy and therapy on all of these girls and their parents.

[Darknight]

Agree Darknight. Well said.

Being in an abusive marriage, the toxic environment and psychological abuse could have enhanced any mental issues Barb may be suffering from. Leaving an abusive relationship does not always mean one has a healthy mind. The effects sometimes continue to linger for years. Barb is also likely dealing with menopause. Dealing with that myself, I feel for Barb in that I don't have to care for a small child while working and having no partner to lean on for support.

This whole family needs therapy. People think it's easy leaving an abusive relationship. It's not. Barbara and the kids probably dealt with the abuse for years before she had the courage to leave. Then when Barbara did leave, she was on her own.

Too bad Jace doesn't have a dad like Corey or Joe

[lovesnark]

I agree with everyone that for all Barb's faults, she was unfairly placed in a really shitty situation when it came to taking custody of Jace. I think she does the best she can with what she knows, it's just hard to change certain habits when you've been acting them out for fifty plus years.

I think what's really messing Jace up is the sporadic contact he has with his mother. It brings so much tension and stress. Jenelle fights with her boyfriends in front of Jace. When Barb picks him up, she and Jenelle usually have explosive arguments. The best thing that could happen is for Jenelle to move far away and disappear completely.

Oh! How I was Barb was strong enough to cut off contact with Jenelle! I know she can't help trying to hope Jenelle will grow up and become a functional human being. Even though she's a piece of shit through and through, Barb loves her and doesn't want to believe it's hopeless. Every time Jace is with Jenelle, he's exposed to her man of the hour, fighting and being grilled about if he wants to live with the thing that incubated him instead of his real mother, Barb. The poor kid doesn't want to piss Jenelle off, so he says what he knows won't set her off. I wonder if a therapist would suggest Barb and Jace stay away from the toxic stew that is Jenelle and use their energy to work on themselves? 

[ghoulina]

I was wondering about that too. Wasn't it Leah that had the completely hysterical meltdown about the kitten she killed (by not caring for it properly) in an earlier season?  And yet the hamster was like.. eh.. hamster died and buried, no biggie. I felt sad for the kids in that scene,

 

Oh man, I thought about the kitten thing! I vaguely remember it now, but didn't she make it more of a big deal to the children than need be? Like she got them all freaked out about it for no good reason?

 

I can only imagine what Jenelle is like with Kaiser behind closed doors when she can barely keep her temper in check while the cameras are rolling.

 

This is why I am torn on the issue of the show ending. I think some kids (Kaiser, Jace, the A sisters) benefit from having some accountability for their parents. 

 

After seeing her with Kaiser, I've begun to suspect Jace probably does act up at her house and she doesn't notice, or care. Maybe she ignores him entirely, or maybe she just shuts him in his room.

 

What about the time he spilled juice in the living room and Jenelle acted like he had just murdered someone?

I was wondering about that too. Wasn't it Leah that had the completely hysterical meltdown about the kitten she killed (by not caring for it properly) in an earlier season?  And yet the hamster was like.. eh.. hamster died and buried, no biggie. I felt sad for the kids in that scene,

 

Oh man, I thought about the kitten thing! I vaguely remember it now, but didn't she make it more of a big deal to the children than need be? Like she got them all freaked out about it for no good reason?

 

I can only imagine what Jenelle is like with Kaiser behind closed doors when she can barely keep her temper in check while the cameras are rolling.

 

This is why I am torn on the issue of the show ending. I think some kids (Kaiser, Jace, the A sisters) benefit from having some accountability for their parents. 

 

After seeing her with Kaiser, I've begun to suspect Jace probably does act up at her house and she doesn't notice, or care. Maybe she ignores him entirely, or maybe she just shuts him in his room.

 

What about the time he spilled juice in the living room and Jenelle acted like he had just murdered someone?

[blubld43]

children that either died as a result of neglect and/or abuse or were found neglected to the point of being close to death and there was a long history of them being taken into foster care and given back to the parent multiple times.

 

This is what I'm afraid is going to happen to Kaiser.  Jenelle is so careless with him, I'm surprised she didn't throw him in the crib WITH the hot dog a couple of weeks ago.  I wouldn't be one bit surprised if some day she doesn't ignore him right to death.

[NikSac]

Oh man, I thought about the kitten thing! I vaguely remember it now, but didn't she make it more of a big deal to the children than need be? Like she got them all freaked out about it for no good reason?

 

<snip>

 

What about the time he spilled juice in the living room and Jenelle acted like he had just murdered someone?

 

Yeah the kitten thing was ridiculous. In trying to find the video of it I found several articles talking about the numerous cats and kittens the Leah households have been through, so apparently that's not the place to be if you want to live a long and happy life as a pet. I couldn't find the exact video again. I just remember her getting absolutely hysterical.  And yes, losing a pet is very upsetting, but it was so over the top.

 

Ah yes I forgot, Jenelle did pay attention to Jace for a few minutes there. Poor kid.

[ReadMeLattice]

I don't know. If I found a dead kitten in my house, I'd freak out like that too. I'd be devastated. But what bugged me about it was that I assume it was her own neglect that led to the death. Maybe that's an unfair assumption, but...

[NikSac]

Lm2162 good point, I'd be pretty upset too, although like you I assumed it was her neglect that led to the kitten's death. Maybe that's partially why she was so upset...

[lovesnark]

Lm2162 good point, I'd be pretty upset too, although like you I assumed it was her neglect that led to the kitten's death. Maybe that's partially why she was so upset...

I remember how over the top her reaction was, too. It was more than you'd expect from one of the kids. And, my first reaction to the whole thing was why in the hell is her cat having kittens in the first place? Between the two of them, they were making more than enough money to have the cat spayed! I volunteer every week at a low cost spay/neuter clinic for cats and it boggles the mind how many people have so many excuses to not have their kitties fixed. I've told you all before that I have a lot of family in WV. One of my cousins lives not far from Elk View and posted on FB about her cat having another litter of kittens. We messaged back and forth and we found low cost spay/neuter services not too far away. So, even if Leah claimed it was too expensive, that's bullshit. I live on the other side of the country and found a low cost option in her back yard. She's probably one of those dumbasses that said she wanted her kids to see the 'miracle of birth'. Watch a YouTube video instead.

[Emmierose]

Isn't Leah's sister Victoria pregnant?  My kids are grown, so maybe things have changed since I was last pregnant in 1996 but isn't chugging Mountain Dew frowned upon? When Leah was at Victoria's house, Victoria was eating and drinking a Mountain Dew.  Now she's not Maci and drinking a beer, but seriously? You're being filmed. 

[poopchute]

You can have up to 300 mg of caffeine per day while you're pregnant.

[ReadMeLattice]

1-2 cups of coffee or a few sodas don't affect your pregnancies, according to studies. People just like to be Nazis about it.

[lovesnark]

Watching this again while waiting for the new one to come on. I really wish Barb would have talked to Jenelle privately about Christmas and told her that just because she has a new boyfriend, she's not going to change her plans to accommodate him.  Invite her to come along and leave it at that. The little bitch telling her boyfriend of the week that Barb is taking Jace away from his family for Christmas because 'it's a competition'. Barb IS Jace's family you stupid skank! Not your boyfriend and the daughter he sees every now and then.

 

Call me Barb! I have a ton of good ideas to help you deal with your beastly daughter!

Edited April 11, 2016 by lovesnark

[Mkay]

I saw in the preview where Leah is telling the girls that Corey and Miranda had their baby, that one of the twins had a cat in her hands.  

 

Victoria should have had her baby by now, right?

Edited April 12, 2016 by Mkay

[ghoulina]

I'm not sure. She announced the pregnancy in Sept. Depending on how far along she was, she could still have another few months. 

[Phoebe70]

Jo looks like a fat, sloppy slob.  What a pretty girl like Vee sees in him is a mystery.  What ever happened to his illustrious rap career?  Does he not work now? I thought Isaac looked fine.  Isn't Kail the one usually walking around in sweatpants with her hair in a messy bun or ponytail?

 

I'd love to see what Chelsea's natural hair color is, and I'd love to see what she looks like with little or no make-up on.

[BitterApple]

Chelsea is quite pretty without makeup, she really doesn't need to trowel it on by the bucket. I think her natural hair is like a medium brown.

[ReadMeLattice]

Jo looks like a fat, sloppy slob. What a pretty girl like Vee sees in him is a mystery. What ever happened to his illustrious rap career? Does he not work now? I thought Isaac looked fine. Isn't Kail the one usually walking around in sweatpants with her hair in a messy bun or ponytail?

I'd love to see what Chelsea's natural hair color is, and I'd love to see what she looks like with little or no make-up on.

Vee isn't incredible or anything but I've never understood the appeal of Jo.

[Katt]

I'm not sure. She announced the pregnancy in Sept. Depending on how far along she was, she could still have another few months.

I read on TeenMomJunkies Victoria is due in November. This is a different pregnancy than the one she announced last year and nobody knows what happened to that one. :/

[DangerousMinds]

Jo looks like a fat, sloppy slob.  What a pretty girl like Vee sees in him is a mystery.  What ever happened to his illustrious rap career?  Does he not work now? I thought Isaac looked fine.  Isn't Kail the one usually walking around in sweatpants with her hair in a messy bun or ponytail?

 

I'd love to see what Chelsea's natural hair color is, and I'd love to see what she looks like with little or no make-up on.

I think Vee just wanted a man to support and hopefully marry her. And support their kids so she will never have to work.

[BitterApple]

I think Vee just wanted a man to support and hopefully marry her. And support their kids so she will never have to work.

Boy, did she bet on the wrong horse.

[ReadMeLattice]

Boy, did she bet on the wrong horse.

Seriously. Why not go for literally anyone with a job? That's, like, MOST guys.

[Mkay]

Chelsea is quite pretty without makeup, she really doesn't need to trowel it on by the bucket. I think her natural hair is like a medium brown.

Chelsea has posted a few pictures on Twitter and Instagram and her hair is a pretty brown color. I like it a lot!

I had wondered about Victoria's baby. I knew something had to have happened or I missed the delivery. That's sad.

[Katt]

There was speculation Victoria lied about the pregnancy to take the focus off Leah and her shenanigans. I'm no Messers fan, but I think that's stretching it. I know Victoria's husband has been shown to be a dickhead and she probably doesn't need to be procreating with him, but a miscarriage, or even a false positive, is a devastating thing especially when you're desperately wanting a child.

[Rebecca]

Isn't she like 19?

[lovesnark]

Isn't she like 19?

She's 20. That's ancient in that family for having your first kid!

[LillianJacks]

This disgusted me listening to this. WHAT part of the USA do they come from that ABUSES a child like that and just talks about it???? My Gawd. Gracie just wants attention. And Allie cannot move as fast as Gracie or I bet she would be all over the car etc.
I am also confused how all these children, Gracie and Aubree can get OUT of their car seats so easily. My kiddos are OLDER now BUT they were in car seats and booster seats yearssssssss ago and they never were able to get out of them!?!?!? How is this 2014 and kiddos can easily get out of them???? 
Leah needs HELP. To sit on the phone and tell a friend that Jeremy would rather work than be with his family........are.you.kidding.me. THAT does not even MAKE SENSE. AND Leah talking to her Mother was NO help. I would love to hear what Leah's step-dad would say to Leah if he heard her talk like that. Her step-dad always makes the best sense. 
To say what she did to Kail on the phone "I will be there for you no matter what" ...... whatever loser. Wait until she gets a new boyfriend, she will leave Kail like she does over and over again. Gawd.
Ya, I did not know what to make of Aubree's tantrum. That was sad and intense.