S05.E07: Hello Kitty

27bored · April 6, 2016

Is it wrong I was kinda bored except for when Desi wandered in?

Same here. This was kind of a snooze, opening scene notwithstanding.

Well I saw the humor in that scene. I don't think it's funny from the POV of a friend or certainly a boyfriend of Hannah's, but as a viewer it was just so over the top ridiculous that I laughed/gasped.

Me too. I laughed/gasped. Sometimes I wonder if Lena is a good actress, or if she's just playing herself plus nudity. But she's a brave soul.

I honestly just don't like Fran. There. I said it. He doesn't seem like a nice guy to me, he seems like a "Nice Guy" and it pisses me off how endlessly judgmental he is about Hannah. True, she's infuriating and immature - but that's who she is. If he doesn't like it, he can leave. Instead he stays with her and rolls his eyes and huffs and puffs. He really pissed me off at the end when she was trying so hard not to cry. To me, it was clear she was having some sort of emotional response and his attitude was all "Oh GAWD, here's Hannah being infuriatingly Hannah again!" - Go away. Just break up. You guys are making each other miserable.

I agree. It's kind of like what I said about Desi, to a degree. They're taking Fran's initial charm as a normal, polite, nice guy and slowly draining to make Hannah look like the "normal" one. Because Fran is coming off more and more like a condescending wet blanket who isn't so much dating Hannah as much as he is "seeing after" her. If you don't like chicks who would show their cooch to their boss to get out of trouble...don't date the chick who shows her cooch to her boss to get out of trouble. Spending all this time lecturing her about how inappropriate it is just makes you look crazy for feeling like you need to have that conversation with another adult. If that adult doesn't understand how fucked it is, you...don't need to be the one to teach that to her.

I have to disagree with two common thoughts:

1) I don't like Adam and Jessa together. I feel like they both have strong personalities and they're going to cancel each other out due to their bullshit. Jessa likes being chased, and Adam likes having an obsession. But I just don't see it working. I think I barely like them as characters. Together? Eh. Plus, aren't they both in rehab? Isn't it a rule to not have serious relationships for at least a year while you're going through rehab?

2) For there to be three episodes left, does anyone else feel like this season has been sort of a nothingburger? I could've done without both Shoshanna episodes, and while I enjoyed the Marnie capsule ep, it feels like this season has been...a lot of nothing.

Lone Wolf · April 6, 2016

Vulva. The word you're looking for is "vulva." That's the name for the external female genitalia.

"Mulva? Oh! Oh! Delores!!"

Hecate7 · April 6, 2016

I agree. It's kind of like what I said about Desi, to a degree. They're taking Fran's initial charm as a normal, polite, nice guy and slowly draining to make Hannah look like the "normal" one. Because Fran is coming off more and more like a condescending wet blanket who isn't so much dating Hannah as much as he is "seeing after" her. If you don't like chicks who would show their cooch to their boss to get out of trouble...don't date the chick who shows her cooch to her boss to get out of trouble. Spending all this time lecturing her about how inappropriate it is just makes you look crazy for feeling like you need to have that conversation with another adult. If that adult doesn't understand how fucked it is, you...don't need to be the one to teach that to her.

How was Fran ever to know that Hannah was the sort of person who would show her cooch to her boss to get out of trouble? How would anyone guess that about someone they found intelligent, interesting, and attractive? I'm sure part of Hanna's appeal to Fran is her childlike quality, and her vague resemblance to Judy Garland in one of those Andy Hardy movies, and so he's going to go all paternal and lecture her. Hannah's need to be rescued means that she's going to attract men who like to rescue, and men who like to rescue also love to control, to teach, and to lecture.

It makes absolutely no sense that it worked. None whatsoever. Nor does it make sense that Hannah is a favorite with the students, given the weird things she's done. I'm finding Hannah's work adventures to be beyond unbelievable.

I'm inclined to agree that Fran should stop dating Hannah, at this point, but not everyone fully processes that they're done, when they're done, and in fact part of maturity is the ability to NOT dump someone just because they've upset you or done something stupid. Still, I was amazed that Fran asked Hannah to rejoin him.

Adam and Jessa: Adam's been in 12-Step for many, many years and can have whatever relationship he wishes. Jessa's been out of rehab for more than a year. If she were being treated for sex addiction, then yes, a year of celibacy would be required, but she's not. She's just there to get over drugs, and she seems quite serious about it. She's into Adam though. Not sure why Adam had Jessa on the fire escape, nor why this by itself told Hannah about their relationship.

Marnie and Desi: I think they're getting back together. Good thing Ray didn't want to repeat his old mistakes, because he'd have been dumped in pretty short order.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Hecate7

cherry slushie · April 6, 2016

How was Fran ever to know that Hannah was the sort of person who would show her cooch to her boss to get out of trouble? How would anyone guess that about someone they found intelligent, interesting, and attractive? I'm sure part of Hanna's appeal to Fran is her childlike quality, and her vague resemblance to Judy Garland in one of those Andy Hardy movies, and so he's going to go all paternal and lecture her. Hannah's need to be rescued means that she's going to attract men who like to rescue, and men who like to rescue also love to control, to teach, and to lecture.

It makes absolutely no sense that it worked. None whatsoever. Nor does it make sense that Hannah is a favorite with the students, given the weird things she's done. I'm finding Hannah's work adventures to be beyond unbelievable.

I'm inclined to agree that Fran should stop dating Hannah, at this point, but not everyone fully processes that they're done, when they're done, and in fact part of maturity is the ability to NOT dump someone just because they've upset you or done something stupid. Still, I was amazed that Fran asked Hannah to rejoin him.

Adam and Jessa: Adam's been in 12-Step for many, many years and can have whatever relationship he wishes. Jessa's been out of rehab for more than a year. If she were being treated for sex addiction, then yes, a year of celibacy would be required, but she's not. She's just there to get over drugs, and she seems quite serious about it. She's into Adam though. Not sure why Adam had Jessa on the fire escape, nor why this by itself told Hannah about their relationship.

Marnie and Desi: I think they're getting back together. Good thing Ray didn't want to repeat his old mistakes, because he'd have been dumped in pretty short order.

Hannah saw Jessa watching him, her body language extremely coquettish, sexy and intimate. He was staring back at her. It was quite obvious there was a connection. If there was nothing between them and she was just there for the play, she would have been looking around at the different scenes throughout the building, and the white dummies of KItty Genovese and her murderer, but her eyes were glued to Adam.

Edited April 6, 2016 by cherry slushie

WhosThatGirl · April 6, 2016

I only assume that Hannah is a favorite by the students because I doubt there is very much actual learning going on in her classroom. It seems like it's a free range classroom. Although, from this magical school land, that seems to be the class's MO. Whatever.

I mean, yes, they probably are turning up Fran's behavior, I still think he is a nice normal guy but they have to write him a certain way now. His extreme normalness to Hannah's extreme non normal behavior. It's..this show. It's what they will do.

Hecate7 · April 6, 2016

I only assume that Hannah is a favorite by the students because I doubt there is very much actual learning going on in her classroom. It seems like it's a free range classroom. Although, from this magical school land, that seems to be the class's MO. Whatever.

I mean, yes, they probably are turning up Fran's behavior, I still think he is a nice normal guy but they have to write him a certain way now. His extreme normalness to Hannah's extreme non normal behavior. It's..this show. It's what they will do.

I noticed that Hannah acted even more childish in response to Fran. So I think they aggravate and amplify each other. The more childishly she behaves, the more parental he gets, which in turn makes her act even more childish, and I think it's because she wants a parent. None of the girls seem to really have been parented, and all of them seem to still crave some kind of parenting. Marnie has a palpable need to be told she's special, and a mother who seems to shoot her down all the time. Hannah knows she's special--she seems to long for discipline, which her father always undermined and her mother really didn't have the patience to follow through with. Jessa has an unending need for attention, and for someone she can admire and look up to. Shosh just wants to grow up, but can't figure out what the magic step is that will accomplish that. MBA? Losing her virginity? Getting The Job? Getting married? At the same time, all of the Girls, and their male counterparts, seem to need to sabotage whatever's working in their lives.

I don't think Fran is perfectly normal. Remember that roommate of his? There's a reason they were rooming together, and a reason he freaked out and ranted about Hannah in such a weird and personal way. Nobody on this show is perfectly normal. Come to think of it, this episode totally dovetails with the roommate's crazy rant about Hannah's bush.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Hecate7

himela · April 6, 2016

2) For there to be three episodes left, does anyone else feel like this season has been sort of a nothingburger? I could've done without both Shoshanna episodes, and while I enjoyed the Marnie capsule ep, it feels like this season has been...a lot of nothing.

I don't agree. I think we have seen the progress in their lives, even though I am not sure if we can say it was them growing up and maturing rather than making new mistakes and learning things about themselves. We see Hannah try to live an adult life with a so called "good guy" and with a grown up job and failing at both for the same reason; she can't let herself grow up (the photos of the exes in Fran's phone and her reaction, how she is behaving in her job environment, how she deals with her boss etc). We see Marnie making a huge mistake (her marriage) and reaching a point where she can remove herself from that mistake, admiting she knew all along it was a mistake. We see Shosh adjusting to a strange environment beautifully and learning to have fun with it, and after losing her job we see her making decisions for her life (stay there - decide she wants to go back). In my opinion this is something I couldn't see coming from Shosh. I thought she'd be this whinny girl she normally is and she'll dislike everything about Japan but she found ways to become adjusted and this is a maturity sign. We see Jessa having feelings for another human being other than herself for the first time. I doubt these feelings are real though, I still believe she wants to enrage Hannah and show she can have a normal relationship - she can't unless she works with herself. We see Adam demanding what he wants (Jessa) and doing good in both their relationship and his professional life. I find this season to be really good with strong scenes and realizations about the characters. Yes, they do have a lot of work ahead of them in order for them to fully grow up but isn't this what real life is? Our way to maturity through our mistakes?

heatherchandler · April 6, 2016

I saw the humor too. It wasn't laugh out loud funny to me, but I wasn't horrified/disgusted like many seem to be. It's just the kind of ridiculous thing I expect to see on this show.

I agree that this show does show some things that are outrageous and that would never happen in real life, but this was really strange as exposing yourself to someone is not funny or silly, but it is illegal.

As a true crime lover I was really excited about the Kitty Genovese play (and what a great idea!). But then I got annoyed because they never explained the real story.

As a true crime lover, I was intrigued. Do you know if this play (or the tv version of it) filmed at the actual location of the crime? In Kew Gardens, Queens?

I'm thinking it serves triple duty here - a wink toward Hannah's spread legs, a bait and switch tease about Shosh, and for Kitty Genovese (which is pretty flippant, considering).

I found it to be flippant, as well. The double (or triple entendre) did not sit well with me.

Adam and Jessa: Adam's been in 12-Step for many, many years and can have whatever relationship he wishes. Jessa's been out of rehab for more than a year. If she were being treated for sex addiction, then yes, a year of celibacy would be required, but she's not. She's just there to get over drugs, and she seems quite serious about it. She's into Adam though. Not sure why Adam had Jessa on the fire escape, nor why this by itself told Hannah about their relationship.

If she is attending meetings, she is following a 12 step, or 12 step-like program. A "rule" of this recovery program (for drugs and/or alcohol) is that you are not supposed to start a new relationship for 12 months. The thinking is that you need to focus on your recovery and it is hard enough to do that without adding a new relationship. Adam has been in recovery for a while, so it is not a problem for him, but she is somewhat fresh out of rehab, correct? I cannot keep my timelines straight. Maybe I am off. Hasn't she just started attending meetings?

Edited April 6, 2016 by heatherchandler

Hecate7 · April 6, 2016

I agree that this show does show some things that are outrageous and that would never happen in real life, but this was really strange as exposing yourself to someone is not funny or silly, but it is illegal.

As a true crime lover, I was intrigued. Do you know if this play (or the tv version of it) filmed at the actual location of the crime? In Kew Gardens, Queens?

I found it to be flippant, as well. The double (or triple entendre) did not sit well with me.

If she is attending meetings, she is following a 12 step, or 12 step-like program. A "rule" of this recovery program (for drugs and/or alcohol) is that you are not supposed to start a new relationship for 12 months. The thinking is that you need to focus on your recovery and it is hard enough to do that without adding a new relationship. Adam has been in recovery for a while, so it is not a problem for him, but she is somewhat fresh out of rehab, correct? I cannot keep my timelines straight. Maybe I am off. Hasn't she just started attending meetings?

No, actually it's been awhile.

TVGlow · April 6, 2016

Also, as ridiculous as Hannah's actions in the principal's office were, I can see how a different type of boyfriend, in the world of the show, might've reacted much differently than Fran did. Adam, for example, might've found it funny.

It would have been cool to make that comparison...have a scene where Hannah tells Adam (somehow), and he laughs, thinks the principal had it coming, and sympathizes with poor ol' Hannah.

txhorns79 · April 6, 2016

I only assume that Hannah is a favorite by the students because I doubt there is very much actual learning going on in her classroom. It seems like it's a free range classroom. Although, from this magical school land, that seems to be the class's MO. Whatever.

I figure they like her because she's on their level. I mean, can you imagine the kind of teacher who thinks it is okay to gossip with her (middle school?) students about the other teachers?

DianeDobbler · April 6, 2016

I think Hannah is never lonely because, as cliche'd as it is, she puts herself out there. She's not especially charming, nor is she an especially great friend or girlfriend in the long haul, but she's pretty aggressive about making her presence felt everywhere she goes. It's a numbers game. That's going to turn off some people, but others will just go along with it. There's plenty of people happy to let someone else do the work. Adam's sister is sort of similar, in her own way. Again, it's just playing the numbers. I think I read somewhere that Warren Beatty, in his heyday, would hit on everyone. So even if 70% turned him down, 30% said yes, and that ends up a big number. Hannah hardly goes anywhere just to observe. That turns some people off, but she makes more connections than someone who'd lay back and process something for a long time before getting in there.

I agree that the set up of "Fran isn't the type to like it when her girlfriend shows flashes her privates in school." is not a thing. Nobody is that type unless they're bent. And there's nobody in the normal world who is "This is how *I* am. I'm a flash my privates type of woman!" I do think it's unrealistic, and she'd have gotten fired for doing it.

I still think Lena Dunham is keeping Ray for Marnie, which I HATE, so it's a pleasant surprise for Desi to return. I want someone to take the hit for Ray.

ZuluQueenOfDwarves · April 7, 2016

Regarding Kitty Genovese, she was unable to scream for help while she was being attacked because

her killer had slashed her vocal chords

. Not really a spoiler, but a bit graphic. Also, there was no emergency number to call back then, getting ahold of police in the middle of the night was iffy at best. Her murder inspired the implementation of the 911 system.

The fact that Hannah still has a job and a bf is ludicrous at this point. We have so many reasons to believe she should've been fired and dumped, and zero to believe that she's so compelling as a teacher or girlfriend that the school or Fran couldn't bear to lose her.

peeayebee · April 7, 2016

Kitty Genovese killer dies at 81. It's an interesting article that gives more facts about the case and that it was misreported at the time.

Readalot · April 8, 2016

Did it seem to anyone else that the actors in most of the scenes were on the verge of laughing? Look at their mouths, it appears to me they are trying to hold down a smile (the scene with Hannah and Ray at the play before marnie comes in, is one of the scenes). Well if anything else, I know a lot about Kitty G. Fascinating. Really didn't want to see Hannah's kitty.

cherry slushie · April 8, 2016

Regarding Kitty Genovese, she was unable to scream for help while she was being attacked because

her killer had slashed her vocal chords

. Not really a spoiler, but a bit graphic. Also, there was no emergency number to call back then, getting ahold of police in the middle of the night was iffy at best. Her murder inspired the implementation of the 911 system.

The fact that Hannah still has a job and a bf is ludicrous at this point. We have so many reasons to believe she should've been fired and dumped, and zero to believe that she's so compelling as a teacher or girlfriend that the school or Fran couldn't bear to lose her.

Not in the first attack. She was screaming like crazy in the first attack, even yelling out "I've been stabbed!" or "He's stabbing me!". The only response was a man yelling out the window to leave her alone, which made the killer take off. While she stumbled to the vestibule of her building, no one came to her aid, and that's why the killer returned and did what you put in the spoiler and more; then raped her as she was dying. If just one person had ventured outside to see if she was okay, she just might be alive today.

Edited April 8, 2016 by cherry slushie

TaraS1 · April 8, 2016

I didn't see it myself, but I just read an article about Lena's appearance on Seth Myers last night and it quoted her as saying - re: the writers telling her about the flashing scene - "Come on guys, don't do this to me." Really, Lena? LOL. I would imagine if you're the creator/writer/director/star, you don't have to show your vag if you don't really want to.

Rockfish · April 8, 2016

Because I thought Hannah was such a disrespectful asshole at the play, as were others but not to the same extent that she was, I felt not one bit of sympathy/pity for her at the end when she felt the betrayal by Adam and Jessa. I know--logically--those two things have nothing to do with one another, but I'm just so sick of this character's amazing powers of self-centeredness that I don't care that I can no longer compartmentalize her disparate qualities and behaviors. If she were still writing and, let's say, doing a reading somewhere, she'd lose her shit if anyone dared speak loudly or interfered with her art. But she has no regard for anyone else's art or performances.

Speaking of the play, I'd love to see something like that. A few years ago I read about a similar performance of Daphne DuMaurier's Rebecca that sounded very cool.

I floved Desi's and Marni's impromptu singing of that ridiculous song. I need to listen to that again because I think the lyrics were that they were telling the bird of a cuckoo clock to quit staring at them, lol.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Rockfish

Hecate7 · April 8, 2016

Adam and Jessa didn't really "betray" Hannah. I'm not sure it's possible to betray someone like Hannah. Hannah and Adam haven't been together in almost two years. Jessa and Hannah quit being friends before Jessa slept with Adam. And Jessa has actually wanted Adam from the time she said "there's a kind of first man quality about him," at that party season 1.

After you break up with someone, they beg you to take them back, and you say no, you have no further claim on them. And you do not own your friends' genitalia.

Rockfish · April 8, 2016

Adam and Jessa didn't really "betray" Hannah. I'm not sure it's possible to betray someone like Hannah. Hannah and Adam haven't been together in almost two years. Jessa and Hannah quit being friends before Jessa slept with Adam. And Jessa has actually wanted Adam from the time she said "there's a kind of first man quality about him," at that party season 1.

After you break up with someone, they beg you to take them back, and you say no, you have no further claim on them. And you do not own your friends' genitalia.

I agree with you--I was just trying to get across how unsympathetic toward Hannah and her feelings I am at this point. Regardless if her feelings make sense or not, she was in a lot of pain, and I didn't care.

lucindabelle · April 9, 2016

This this this this! Over on av club sooooo many people are saying what a bad friend Jessa was. But everything they point out is from the distant past. Yes adam wrote hannah songs... Years ago. Yes Hannah was there for jessa's rehab... Years ago. I remember when I was in grad school I had needy friend who COULD NOT UNDERSTAND that when I had to study or prepare to teach I really did not time to listen to her emotional stuff. One time she got so mad when I said I didn't have time to talk she called back to talk about it! Hannahs like that. Adam and Jessa are both single and do not owe hannah explanations of any kind.

Hecate7 · April 9, 2016

This this this this! Over on av club sooooo many people are saying what a bad friend Jessa was. But everything they point out is from the distant past. Yes adam wrote hannah songs... Years ago. Yes Hannah was there for jessa's rehab... Years ago. I remember when I was in grad school I had needy friend who COULD NOT UNDERSTAND that when I had to study or prepare to teach I really did not time to listen to her emotional stuff. One time she got so mad when I said I didn't have time to talk she called back to talk about it! Hannahs like that. Adam and Jessa are both single and do not owe hannah explanations of any kind.

Jessa's not a particularly good friend, but I don't think the girl code applies here even so. I'm sure Hannah wouldn't observe one. Hannah's that kind of person who, if you hit her, hitting is wrong and you should be ashamed. If she hits you, well, you shoulda ducked! I'm sure if Jessa's bf came on to Hannah, and Hannah felt like it, she'd totally do it with him.

WhosThatGirl · April 10, 2016

For me, my annoyance at Jessa's behavior is really nothing to do with girl code but sort of the way Jessa is not acting towards Hannah at all. I find her non hello, looking down at her feet responding to Hannah's hello was childish. And that is my issue.

I also just don't really like Jessa and have never liked her. I like her with Adam and I like them as a couple, but then she still does things like she did in that last episode that make me kind of annoyed at her, like the last scene. I just find it acting like a child.

I know Hannah would probably do the same thing, but I would point it as being like a child too.

None of the girls are people I would want to be friends with. Maybe Marnie of season 1. I liked her then and understood her frustration with Hanna throughout the whole season one season. Hannah basically wasn't paying any rent for a while and then Adam sort of started staying at their place and then Hannah got mad that Marnie was angry with her about it.

Edited April 10, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

27bored · April 10, 2016

Jessa's a tricky one for me. I kiiiind of like her sometimes, but I also find her to be crappy person at times.

I think I like her less with Adam. I don't buy that Adam's intentions are entirely earnest. I think he went after Jessa sort of knowing it would hurt Hannah. I don't think he likes it that Hannah's with Fran and has moved on -- and considering he got Mimi Rose when Hannah left, it's interesting that he starts chasing Jessa when Hannah moved on. I think Jessa wants closeness and likes that Adam can relate to her in ways her friends can't. But that doesn't mean they should be together, and in fact, it kind of means they shouldn't be together at all. And I think Hannah is big on loyalty. So I know she can be self-centered but I actually don't think she would do the same thing if the tables were turned, contrary to what Adam said earlier in the season.

DollEyes · April 10, 2016

Delurking with more contempt for Hannah. IMO, she's the worst of the worst. I believe that the only reason why Hannah wasn't fired for flashing her vajayjay at her boss was because it's a liberal school. If it was a conservative Christian school then chances are Hannah not only would have been fired, she might have been arrested. Fran had every right to be pissed at Hannah for that alone, "Nice Guy" trope or not. Fran may have known that Hannah was a mess before they got together, but I don't think he knows just how batshit crazy she is and he's got a right to call her on it whether she likes it or not. Fran's not much of a prize, either, but Hannah is worse. Hannah's pussy-flashing is one more example of the old saying, "Just because you can, that doesn't mean you should."

Re Marnie & Desi, most of the time I hate them separately and together, but if their professional and possibly personal reunion keeps her away from Ray, then I'm all for it. Ray may be an insecure and paranoid conspiracy theorist, but he still deserves much better than a trainwreck like Marnie.

About Jessa & Adam, they've got issue of their own (to put it mildly), but I think that they're great together, in their own extremely fucked-up way. I don't think they "owe" Hannah shit because if the shoe was on the other foot and Hannah got with one of Jessa's exes, chances are Hannah would not only demand complete moral support from Jessa,, if she got anything less then neither Jessa nor the rest of the world would hear the end of it. As far as I'm concerned, Jessa & Adam should show as much consideration for Hannah's feelings as she has for fran's when she invaded his privacy, broke into his phone and deleted his exes' nude pics without permission, got into a fight with Fran at work and dragged one of the students into it and cheated on Fran while she was on vacation with her mom.

Re Elijah & Dill, they're not exclusive and Dill's not psychic. If Elijah wants more form Dill, then she should just say so. However, I'm not letting Dill off the hook. He should have made his intentions with Elijah clear from the start. That said, I do like them together much more than almost any other couple on the show and hope they can work things out.

represent · April 10, 2016

I think I like her less with Adam. I don't buy that Adam's intentions are entirely earnest. I think he went after Jessa sort of knowing it would hurt Hannah. I don't think he likes it that Hannah's with Fran and has moved on -- and considering he got Mimi Rose when Hannah left, it's interesting that he starts chasing Jessa when Hannah moved on. I think Jessa wants closeness and likes that Adam can relate to her in ways her friends can't. But that doesn't mean they should be together, and in fact, it kind of means they shouldn't be together at all. And I think Hannah is big on loyalty. So I know she can be self-centered but I actually don't think she would do the same thing if the tables were turned, contrary to what Adam said earlier in the season.

I agree, although I'm not sure if Dunham is going with that is how it may have started, but now the two seem to really like one another.

I don't know if Hannah would do the same or not. I do know that I like Hannah and don't like Jessa. I'm biased, and have never cared for Jessa.

So odds are I can always call out Hannah on her bullshit and complete bat shit crazy behavior, yet will remain on the side of her getting it right. At least I hope she gets it right before this show ends. I hope the all do, but is that Dunham's writing style? To wrap things up in a tidy bow? I don't know.

This is an extremely messy group of people, but I don't see any of them including Jessa, as human beings so disconnected from humanity that they would disgust me to the point of me asking are they even human? They all are still looking for connections even though their flaws keep sabotaging their efforts to do so. Therefore, I continue to watch and enjoy.

WhosThatGirl · April 10, 2016

This is an extremely messy group of people, but I don't see any of them including Jessa, as human beings so disconnected from humanity that they would disgust me to the point of me asking are they even human? They all are still looking for connections even though their flaws keep sabotaging their efforts to do so. Therefore, I continue to watch and enjoy.

This is how I feel. Like I said, I wouldn't be friends with any of them, probably, but they still act like people and human beings and that's actually a lot more than I can say for characters on other shows that I watch.

Hecate7 · April 11, 2016

Jessa's a tricky one for me. I kiiiind of like her sometimes, but I also find her to be crappy person at times.

I think I like her less with Adam. I don't buy that Adam's intentions are entirely earnest. I think he went after Jessa sort of knowing it would hurt Hannah. I don't think he likes it that Hannah's with Fran and has moved on -- and considering he got Mimi Rose when Hannah left, it's interesting that he starts chasing Jessa when Hannah moved on. I think Jessa wants closeness and likes that Adam can relate to her in ways her friends can't. But that doesn't mean they should be together, and in fact, it kind of means they shouldn't be together at all. And I think Hannah is big on loyalty. So I know she can be self-centered but I actually don't think she would do the same thing if the tables were turned, contrary to what Adam said earlier in the season.

See, I think Mimi Rose was a Jessa substitute. And I think Jessa's fury at Hannah over being gone, was about Jessa's own desire for Adam, and that the Mimi Rose situation was all about Adam and Jessa finding substitutes for each other. Now I get why Jessa sat on the laptop.

Hecate7 · April 13, 2016

I don't think Adam really has those kinds of feelings for Hannah anymore. He's trying to move on. Jessa is well-matched to him: he likes to rescue, she likes to be rescued, but not too much.

The one hung up on Hannah is Jessa, not Adam. Adam doesn't really give it much thought, nor should he. But Jessa is really feeling guilty over Hannah. It's great because I didn't know Jessa could feel guilt. Ironically, Jessa's pain over Hannah is in direct proportion to how much she likes Adam. The more of a great guy she thinks Adam is, and the more in love with him she falls, the more she thinks she's keeping a terrific guy away from Hannah...and maybe Hannah would be better for him...she thinks maybe he has regrets...and this are all very appropriate feelings she's having, and represent growth since season 1. The only reason it looks childish, is that it's juxtaposed with a baby and the possible suicide of Adam's sister. So Jessa looks like she's obsessing over having a splinter next to a person who needs her to set a broken leg. She still needs a pair of tweezers, even though setting the leg is a much greater priority, and the pain is immeasurably greater.

Adam might be using the crisis, actually, to avoid dealing with his own feelings. That's something Adam has always been good at. Things got complicated in bed with one girlfriend...hey, the ex is having an OCD crisis--forget this noise, I can go do something simple and rescue the ex. Adam likes things he can be simple and passionate about. A baby, Jessa's tuition, the thrill of new love, the possibility of marriage. He doesn't like complicated, nuanced things. Jessa's a smart girl, though. If she really loves Adam, she'll figure it out.

I think Dunham is having a crack at "happily ever after." She seems to be saying it doesn't exist, that we don't grow up to find our perfect love and live happily. We grow up to fit into exactly the worst effed up scenario that pushes all of our unique buttons. Hannah practically needs a gay husband. Jessa needs a guy she's in constant fear of being abandoned by. Marnie needs a guy who desperately wants her whenever she doesn't want him, and vice versa. Shosh needs to go travel some more.

DangerousMinds · April 15, 2016

When did Adam ever express interest in marriage?

Hecate7 · April 15, 2016

When did Adam ever express interest in marriage?

When Hannah's Bubbe was dying, Adam actually seemed game for the whole marriage gambit, for real, not just as an act to please Bubbe.

DianeDobbler · April 15, 2016

Adam has sort of turned into a romantic, or maybe just looks like one on this show, because he embraces responsibility. If it were me, and I had a budding acting career to manage - and even if he's making good money when he works, there's the need to constantly get out there because there's no security in the business - I'd find having my unstable sister living downstairs to be a pain in the ass, draining important energy. Adam is emotionally responsible - he needs to focus on his own stuff, but he's not narcissistic. I felt that he was anxious about his sister, but not especially put out that he had an infant on his hands. He wanted everything set up so he could care for her, but he wasn't pushing her onto Jessica to create more freedom for himself. I don't know if I 100% buy his apparent evolution from the guy who did whatever he did to that girlfriend he had after Hannah, to the guy who is able to be warm and laugh and be intimate with Jessa despite their "bad sex" at their first attempt, but he has. I could see him being the marrying type.

luna1122 · February 3, 2017

I just saw this item in the news and immediately thought of Hannah. She would so do this, and we already know she doesn't wear undies to work.

http://okcfox.com/news/local/police-substitute-teacher-exposes-self-to-students-during-cartwheel?utm_content=bufferd02b0&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

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