S04.E07: The Profit And The Loss

[magdalene]

"Why is he a traitor? For not allowing the Vikings to sack his city and murder his people? For defending his wife and her family? Had he betrayed Paris after pledging his loyalty he would have been a traitor."

He is a traitor to his Viking people. He betrayed his own people! He attacked and massacred the Vikings who were left there in Frankia. Murdered Viking men, women, and children -- his own people -- in a dastardly manner. That's why he is a traitor.

Yeah, I would love for Gisla to meet Lagertha. She would leave with her head in her hands after Lagertha got through with her.

To me Rollo's position is a bit more complicated and gray than him simply having switched sides and now fighting for his new family. As much as I admire the Vikings in many ways I can't forget that they are the aggressors who come into other folks territories, villages and cities and raid and massacre people, enslave some of them.  They do this to people who have never done them any harm or had any previous contact with.  This show started with "our heroes" slaughtering a whole bunch of helpless monks, let's not forget that. 

 

So, yes, to me it felt kind of satisfying that Rollo won one against his brother. And he won deservedly as Rollo's defense strategy was very well planned and executed while Ragnar's strategy was crap. 

 

I am sure Rollo will pay a heavy price somehow for having betrayed his people but I don't begrudge him this victory.

Edited April 2, 2016 by magdalene

[tennisgurl]

Man, Ragnar is losing his shit. No wonder he is having visions of his season 1 life. He has had much better days then this. 

 

I am so torn! On the one hand, I am rooting for our Viking protagonists, who are characters I have gotten to know and like, and I can appreciate so much about them and their culture and society (their storytelling, their more progressive gender dynamics, complex faith system, ingenuity, and their strategy), so I want them to win. BUT, I am also rooting for the Franks to defend their home, and stop the Vikings from breaking in and killing everyone! This show just makes me feel so confused, I love it. 

 

I am just really glad they are starting to move plots together (mostly the Rollo plot, and Ragnar plot) and settle into some dramatic pay offs. This show has such amazing battle scenes, they are so epic, and filled with so much creativity and realism. They do with their smaller budget what big budget shows do with far less. 

 

I do not know how I feel about Rollo. On the one hand, he did betray the people who stayed behind with him, and who trusted him, and he is at war with his own family and the people he was born to. But, as I said before, its hard to be mad at a guy trying to keep other people from getting murdered, and from keeping Paris from being burned to the ground. Like I said before, its confusing and I love it. 

Edited April 1, 2016 by tennisgurl

[SuzieBee]

I don't care for the Wessex story that much, but that was a gorgeous blue and gold cloak that they put on Linus Roache right before he got on his horse.  The long shot where he and his men entered Mercia was a bit of stunning camera work.

 

This show does cloaks really well.  As King Harald Finehair sailed into the harbor at Kattegat, his magnificent wool patchwork cloak flowed behind him, making him look far more commanding than he probably is.

 

It looked like Floki was being conferred with god-like powers in his vision of making love with Aslaug. 

 

One complaint I have though -- doesn't it seem like Aslaug gets too many lines?  Her scenes eat up too much screen time.  It would be far more profitable to give that time to a female character who deserves the attention -- like Lagertha.

 

Maybe what I just said isn't really true; but when you see such an unlikeable character appear in the episode, you wish they would hurry up and disappear.  These episodes are so short with all of the commercials.

[TaurusRose]

I don't care for the Wessex story that much, but that was a gorgeous blue and gold cloak that they put on Linus Roache right before he got on his horse.  ....doesn't it seem like Aslaug gets too many lines?  Her scenes eat up too much screen time.

About the cloaks. They've always seemed impractical to me. I've always wondered how they got the horse shit out of them. LOL Regarding Aslaug, I agree she gets too much screen time. Why isn't she dead yet?

[BitterApple]

About the cloaks. They've always seemed impractical to me. I've always wondered how they got the horse shit out of them. LOL Regarding Aslaug, I agree she gets too much screen time. Why isn't she dead yet?

I think people back then were so used to walking ankle deep in filth, a little horse shit coating their hems probably didn't phase them.

Speaking of which, I miss Ecbert holding court in his hot tub. I feel like his bath house is a character in and of itself.

[Raachel2008]

Let's not underestimate the Franks, shall we? They did lose to the Vikings during the Paris raid, but not before killing a shitload of people and showing some nice figthting strategies. Sure, now they have Rollo, who knows all about the vikings and can - and did - help the Franks fill in the gaps to beat the Vikings. I adore the show, but I loathe like it tries to make every other army out there either stupid or coward to the core to the point where I've just rolled my eyes more than once.

[Ohwell]

Oh, I don't think anyone has underestimated the Franks.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Vikings Teaches A Tough Lesson About Fidelity
While Ragnar and the rest of the Vikings are away attacking Paris again, the she-folk keep themselves busy.

[Nukester]

and I can appreciate so much about them and their culture and society (their storytelling, their more progressive gender dynamics, complex faith system, ingenuity, and their strategy)

 

This confuses me.  Grotesque killing, no sense of loyalty.  A pure savage society.  The Vikings were anything but admirable.  BUT, it makes for an exciting and interesting series, doesn't it?

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Vikings Teaches A Tough Lesson About Fidelity

While Ragnar and the rest of the Vikings are away attacking Paris again, the she-folk keep themselves busy.

Fidelity.  ROFL.  When the cat is away, all the mice get laid.  And by a old weird cat at that!

Edited April 2, 2016 by Nukester

[jnymph]

Speaking of which, I miss Ecbert holding court in his hot tub. I feel like his bath house is a character in and of itself.

I actually thought of that while watching this episode too!!!! Bring back the bath damnit!!!

Poor Helga I hope she's ok. Or goes to Valhalla quickly to escape agony

This show really confuses my moral compass in a good way.

[Nukester]

I actually thought of that while watching this episode too!!!! Bring back the bath damnit!!!

Poor Helga I hope she's ok. Or goes to Valhalla quickly to escape agony

This show really confuses my moral compass in a good way.

+1 for the bath house.

[green]

And who was the dude that led the attack on the Viking women and children? <sarcasm>He was a stunning example of heroism, wasn't he?</sarcasm>

 

That was Roland, Odo's chief lieutenant who is busy betraying Odo to the Emperor on the side.  And to be fair, all armies try and attack the rear of their enemy if they can.  In this case it destroys the Vikings' food store and spare weapon supplies and is a tactically sound strategy.  Yeah it involved a lot of slaughter of non-warriors but most wars usually kill more unarmed people than soldiers especially modern day wars.  Sad but true.

 

I agree that we have emotional connection with the Viking characters we have lived with over 4 seasons now but still can support the Franks (and the Saxons before them ) being the victims defending themselves.  The only person I have zero sympathy for is Rollo.  He is a freaking traitor who only fights for the Franks not out of nobly wanting to save an innocent people from attack but rather because he sold his soul for power and name and fame.  The worst sort of scum of the earth.

 

I like Wigstad (Wigstan? Wigsted?).  Okay Wiggy for now until I learn the spelling.  He is "opposite-Rollo".  He has seen what the bloody quest for power and fame has done and is dropping out of that stupid trip.  Good for him. 

 

I tend to admire the characters who have the least interest in silly stuff like power and fame which is one of the reasons Athelstan was always my favorite.  Helga (glad she survived) is in that category too.  A good-hearted person who has perhaps the most common sense of any of the characters we've seen.  Love how her character has grown and deepened over the seasons.  And Judith in the sense she chose learning art over power when Ecberrt gave her a choice of a wish.  Hope Wiggy remains as a character in this show as I add him to this short list for now.

 

I really like the Viking storyline minus "Aslaug in Heat" and the Wessex one.  (Loved the Wessex preview for next week).  Hope the Frankia one will stop taking up too much screen time now that Ragnar is "attacking down river" which means he is retreating back to the sea since that is down river.

[LittleIggy]

About the cloaks. They've always seemed impractical to me. I've always wondered how they got the horse shit out of them. LOL Regarding Aslaug, I agree she gets too much screen time. Why isn't she dead yet?

Amen! I'm sick of her. Lagertha is a 100 times the woman she is.

[TaurusRose]

The only person I have zero sympathy for is Rollo.  He is a freaking traitor who only fights for the Franks not out of nobly wanting to save an innocent people from attack but rather because he sold his soul for power and name and fame.  The worst sort of scum of the earth.

This sums up my feelings about Rollo perfectly.

[attica]

FIrst of all, I need to give major props to all the stuntwomen in this show. All the shield maidens and boatwomen, who fought and got shot with arrows and fell into the water and burned and on and on. Nice to see a little parity in the fight scenes!

 

Second of all, even if he is her ex and babydaddy, I think that Ragnar is very foolish to come up behind Lagertha and get so familiar with his "forgive me for caring" horseshit. She's done some damage before to men that close to her, amirite, ladies? Ragnar might find something else besides betel nuts to put in his mouth!

 

Third of all, I would not be opposed to a Lagertha/Rollo/Gisla threesome. No romance, mind you, just a good ScandiFrank bang.

[Ohwell]

The only person I have zero sympathy for is Rollo.  He is a freaking traitor who only fights for the Franks not out of nobly wanting to save an innocent people from attack but rather because he sold his soul for power and name and fame.  The worst sort of scum of the earth.

Exactly.  

 

I was glad he got to see that Ragnar and Bjorn were still alive, standing on the ship.  I wanted Ragnar to yell at him, "Yeah I'm still here, you faux-Frankish turd of a brother!" 

[Captanne]

In my opinion, Ragnar's character in the last episode and particularly in this one is a study in how he operates while either high or jonesing.  Any criticism of him must be taken through that prism.

[peach]

I tend to admire the characters who have the least interest in silly stuff like power and fame which is one of the reasons Athelstan was always my favorite. 

 

Yet Athelstan is the one who gave them the "keys to Paris" so to speak, so they could rape and pillage a Christian city that had done them no harm.

I think Ragnar chopped it when she was in the bath--I was bored but vaguely remember him cutting her ponytail off. 

 

I remember her saying something about how her hair used to be short before she was kidnapped, implying it was a social rank thing, so his cutting it short again was about symbolizing her return to a free (sort of) status.

[peach]

Princess Mushmouth. Gah! I really don't like her and was glad she got to see for herself that shield maidens don't dress up in useless fashion armor and stand on top of a tower to watch the battle; they actually fight and die to defend their beliefs. 

 

I think it would seem more that these people are even more savage than she thought, sending their women to brutally fight and be burned alive in a muddy marsh.  I'm not sure a princess would see that as an advancement.

 

 

Wessex, once again, was the boring part of the episode for me. I am so over Mercia and King Ecbert.

 

Same here!

Edited April 2, 2016 by peach

[TaurusRose]

I think it would seem more that these people are even more savage than she thought, sending their women to brutally fight and be burned alive in a muddy marsh.  I'm not sure a princess would see that as an advancement.

I respectfully disagree. The fact that she stood on the tower (during the first battle to encourage her army) and showed up in this most recent one wearing "armor," says to me that she thinks she's brave and able to lead armies. Of course, she's not afraid when there are hundreds of men and a well-fortified stronghold standing between her and armed conflict. She has no idea what the world beyond Frankia is like and really doesn't care to (hence, her initial treatment of Rollo). She's arrogant and entitled, a royal by birth. I'm sure she would try to look down her nose at Lagertha if the two ever met.

Edited April 2, 2016 by taurusrose

[peach]

I respectfully disagree. The fact that she stood on the tower (during the first battle to encourage her army) and showed up in this most recent one wearing "armor," says to me that she thinks she's brave and able to lead armies. Of course, she's not afraid when there are hundreds of men and a well-fortified stronghold standing between her and armed conflict. She has no idea what the world beyond Frankia is like and really doesn't care to (hence, her initial treatment of Rollo). She's arrogant and entitled, a royal by birth. I'm sure she would try to look down her nose at Lagertha if the two ever met.

 

I'm not sure how that's disagreeing?

[millennium]

Difficult episode for me.   I hate Floki.   From the very start.   Bad enough he's the recipient of what seem like weekly reprieves from death, but his daughter and now his poor wife have suffered the horrible fates he deserves  -- and worse, while Helga's in the throes of agony, he's off in a meadow having an orgasm.   So much for karma.

 

Harbard, in my estimation, is an asshole.   A weasel in the henhouse.   Then again, as depicted, the women in Kattegat are a bunch of unfaithful, horny homebodies, so ...

 

Hooray for Bjorn finding the courage to ask his father if he's "all right."    The Joker lips didn't tip him off earlier?   The twitchy way of speaking?   It took a devastating loss of ships and lives to finally doubt whether Ragnar's "all right?"    And nobody can do the simple two-plus-two-equals-four equation that Ragnar's been going downhill since he took up with the Chinese chick?   I know he's the king and nobody wants to question the king, but come on. 

 

It was a great battle.   For some reason I enjoyed the "oh shit" moment when Lagertha's force found itself stuck in the mud.  That seemed very real.   I'm assuming CGI was used to put all those Viking ships on the river in the long shot but it's fun to imagine that the studio had to build them all for that scene.    Several actual boats must have been constructed -- I'd enjoy seeing them in real life.

[BobR]

I would think that Ragnar would be in a boat wreck and be captured in Wessex and tossed into a viper pit and die. Then his sons could return to avenge his honor. This plot has a nice ring to it don't you think!

Edited April 2, 2016 by BobR

[Stratego]

I would think that Ragnar would be in a boat wreck and be captured in Wessex and tossed into a viper pit and die. Then his sons could return to avenge his honor. This plot has a nice ring to it don't you think!

There is a specific thread established for this comment.

[feverfew]

I am so torn! On the one hand, I am rooting for our Viking protagonists, who are characters I have gotten to know and like, and I can appreciate so much about them and their culture and society (their storytelling, their more progressive gender dynamics, complex faith system, ingenuity, and their strategy), so I want them to win. BUT, I am also rooting for the Franks to defend their home, and stop the Vikings from breaking in and killing everyone! This show just makes me feel so confused, I love it.

 

As with every show that deals with history, the writers pick and choose what they want to tell. While the Vikings in many ways were progressive when it came to their own free-women, there is a reason why you'll find people with Scandinavian genetics as far down as northern Africa. And it wasn't just because of their settlements. Progressive gender politics was only for free-women; raping across country was a national sport when it came the countries they invaded. But showing that would make even the most history-as-it-were inclined watchers turn away from ther screens, so instead we have Lagertha killing a man who was about to rape a woman in season one, and then not showing anything close to that since. But it does make for more interesting storylines, in my opinion,  when we are confronted with a conflict where we can't just cheer for one side.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, did Ragnar and the Vikings just get their asses handed to him!  Rollo seemed to just know every trick Ragnar was going to try and simply outmaneuvered him at every turn.  It probably didn't help that Ragnar is still tripping off that stuff Yidu keeps giving him.  He really needs to get his shit together fast, or this is only going to get worse for him.  Bjorn might need to step up the plate soon, or Harald and his bro will probably try to pull something over him.

 

Surprised that Floki managed to get out of it in one piece, although he certainly has to pain for it by Helga getting all kinds of messed up.  Only reason I think she might pull through is because I know the actress is Michael Hurst's daughter, so I'm sure that gives her some job security!

 

Can't even make heads or tails of that sex scene with Floki, Asalug, and Harbard.

 

Ecbert is totally trying to Mercia for himself.  I can't wait till Kwenthirth finds out about that little development.  Linus Roache did look pretty badass in that armor.

 

The battle scenes in Vikings continue to be some of the best.  The stunt people on this show are amazing and the regular actors are pretty impressive too, since they seem to do as much of it themselves as possible.

 

I loved Rollo in his own words pretty much saying "Yeah, Lagertha is probably one of the biggest badasses in the entire world.  I wouldn't fuck with her!"  I'm not sure Gisela would really want to "meet" her.

 

Shit's got real, now!  What are you going to do, Ragnar?!!

[mirrorrim]

I also want to add that I think Fimmel's acting this season is not up to par with previous seasons.  I don't know, something seems off.  It could be the way they're writing him and that I'm not used to seeing this drugged up, bumbling Ragnar.  

 

I'm not particularly attuned to catching slipped accents (I had no idea Christian Bale was British until about 6 months ago), but the last 2 episodes, Travis has been majorly letting his Australian accent slip! It was especially distracting this episode when he yelled at Rollo "this is how you repay Mah Luv!!?" (sorry dunno how to write that in "Australian." You get the idea)

[BitterApple]

I'm not particularly attuned to catching slipped accents (I had no idea Christian Bale was British until about 6 months ago), but the last 2 episodes, Travis has been majorly letting his Australian accent slip! It was especially distracting this episode when he yelled at Rollo "this is how you repay Mah Luv!!?" (sorry dunno how to write that in "Australian." You get the idea)

Shut.The.Front.Door. Christian Bale is British?!! He's one of my favorite actors, how the hell did I not know this?!

I'm going to have to watch for accent slippages. I didn't notice it with Travis during this last epi, but I wasn't really paying that much attention to it either.

Edited April 3, 2016 by BitterApple

[Ohwell]

I'm not particularly attuned to catching slipped accents (I had no idea Christian Bale was British until about 6 months ago), but the last 2 episodes, Travis has been majorly letting his Australian accent slip! It was especially distracting this episode when he yelled at Rollo "this is how you repay Mah Luv!!?" (sorry dunno how to write that in "Australian." You get the idea)

But how would we really "know" that his accent is wrong for that time period?  I didn't really hear anything that sounded particularly Australian (at least how I hear Australians speak today) and, frankly, the Vikings on the show sound a bit German to my ears.   That's because I haven't had the opportunity to hear many Scandinavians speak. 

[jadecorleone]

FIrst of all, I need to give major props to all the stuntwomen in this show. All the shield maidens and boatwomen, who fought and got shot with arrows and fell into the water and burned and on and on. Nice to see a little parity in the fight scenes!

 

Second of all, even if he is her ex and babydaddy, I think that Ragnar is very foolish to come up behind Lagertha and get so familiar with his "forgive me for caring" horseshit. She's done some damage before to men that close to her, amirite, ladies? Ragnar might find something else besides betel nuts to put in his mouth!

 

Third of all, I would not be opposed to a Lagertha/Rollo/Gisla threesome. No romance, mind you, just a good ScandiFrank bang.

And considering how he treated her after she lost her last child with him. Id have told Ragnar to pound sand.  

[nowornever]

I'm still waiting for Bjorn and Rollo to have another face-off.  They've been building up to it for a long time-  the "Don't die stupidly" scene (season 2 or 3 maybe?) and them duking it out after Siggy died.  It's coming...I can feel it.

 

I like the dynamic that the Rollo storyline brings.  Yes, he's betrayed his brother a number of times, but it's been when Ragnar has either been trying to build his own kingdom or looting another.  Although Rollo's behaving badly toward his family, those aren't exactly noble quests.  And now he's protecting his new family, so I'm not feeling that bad about it.  

 

Erlandur, you're toast.  I don't know if it will be Bjorn, Lagertha or Torvi, but you are going down. little man.

Edited April 3, 2016 by nowornever

[NorthstarATL]

But how would we really "know" that his accent is wrong for that time period?  I didn't really hear anything that sounded particularly Australian (at least how I hear Australians speak today) and, frankly, the Vikings on the show sound a bit German to my ears.   That's because I haven't had the opportunity to hear many Scandinavians speak. 

I tend to imagine the dialogue with heavy Minnesotan accents as in "Fargo", which, to me, is closer to Scandanavian. It also makes everything funnier.

  Loved all the action scenes! Rollo knew what he was doing, and I have to admire his strategizing. Of course, going up against a drug-addled Ragnar was probably luckier than even he had planned!

   Still unsure as to Yidu's "plan" if she had/has one. Ragnar failing doesn't really benefit her, so why keep him addicted? Or is that no longer under her control, and we're just going to have to see his withdrawal?

   I find Ecbert's machinations fascinating.

[LOA-maker]

I don't have cable, so I have to wait until the next day to watch Vikings on the History channel. The upside, though, is no commerical interruptions. LOL

Most of my thoughts have already been addressed, so I'll just touch on a few things.

Other than Rollo being easy on the eyes, I've never really thought much of the character; his current role in Frankia has only increased my dislike of him. Up thread someone rationalized his behavior, but I have to agree with the OP. From the Vikings' POV, he is a traitor. He was not left behind to ingratiate himself with the elite of Frankia or win himself a prominent bride. The fact that he does all of these things, and fulfills his destiny, doesn't belie the fact that he turned against his own people. That said, the battle scene was fantastic on every level. I knew Ragnar and company were going to get their asses handed to them in a fight on water, but the land counterattack was unexpected and brilliant. When is Bjorn going to become the official leader of the Viking raiders? Clearly, Ragnar is out of his depth now and his warriors are suffering because of it.

Princess Mushmouth. Gah! I really don't like her and was glad she got to see for herself that shield maidens don't dress up in useless fashion armor and stand on top of a tower to watch the battle; they actually fight and die to defend their beliefs. You really don't want to meet Lagertha, MM. She'd clean your clock without breaking into a sweat. And can someone explain why Odo doesn't have a hand? Did I miss that scene somewhere? And who was the dude that led the attack on the Viking women and children? <sarcasm>He was a stunning example of heroism, wasn't he?</sarcasm> I still don't know what purpose Yidu serves other than being Ragnar's pusher. Now that she's back on Frankian soil, can't she just run away or something?

I also don't understand why Habard keeps showing up in Kattegat when all the men are out on raiding parties. And what's with seducing all the women? Everybody seems under a spell whenever he shows up and at the moment, he is looking like nothing more than a horny opportunist (magical person or not). Looks like Bjorn may be playing the long con with Erlunder and I can't wait to see how that plays out. Finally, Loki got a glimpse of what's going on in Kattegat. Huh. What does it mean? Wessex, once again, was the boring part of the episode for me. I am so over Mercia and King Ecbert. Still, The Profit and The Loss was the best episode to date.

 

But then it's what the Norse Gods intend, so who can say it's wrong? lol... i just support him in this conflict, dunno why, i just do. 

[TaurusRose]

I'm not sure how that's disagreeing?

I thought you were saying MM thought that women being among the dead was barbaric, which struck me as contradictory when she appeared in battle wearing armor. Her comment at seeing the number of women among the dead made me think she was surprised. Here she was all puffed up with pride over her noble status (and no doubt feeling herself very brave), playing at war in her little breastplate and chain mail hairnet while the fallen women (heathens in her eyes) were shield maidens (noble in their own right) who didn't play at war. They were brave and they knew how to fight, and they had actually participated in the raiding party and died. The contrast between MM and the shield maidens should have been a reality check, IMO.

[LOA-maker]

I respectfully disagree. The fact that she stood on the tower (during the first battle to encourage her army) and showed up in this most recent one wearing "armor," says to me that she thinks she's brave and able to lead armies. Of course, she's not afraid when there are hundreds of men and a well-fortified stronghold standing between her and armed conflict. She has no idea what the world beyond Frankia is like and really doesn't care to (hence, her initial treatment of Rollo). She's arrogant and entitled, a royal by birth. I'm sure she would try to look down her nose at Lagertha if the two ever met.

 

most think that way though...i'd bet Odo, her father the Emperor, and miss-proto-BDSM sub for Odo think so too. 

[LittleIggy]

I tolerated Rollo when he was shirtless the majority of the time with his hair long and flowing. Now that he has his Prince Valiant haircut, fancy duds, and stupid French wife, in the words of Kevin "Mr. Wonderful" O'Leary, he's dead to me! ;-)

[Knuckles]

I  was rewatching the battle scene, and I wondered...what did they catapult onto the Viking ships...clearly it was something highly combustible, but I can't figure out what it was...looked like deflated pumpkins. Anybody know?

 

Also, loved Prince Wigstan (??) with Ecbert in Mercia. I wondered where the Blackfish from GOT had gone, and now it seems he landed in Mercia. That scene with Ecbert in the crypt was wonderful...just the two of them, and the dead, discussing corruption, and the most hideous betrayals by family members. 

 

Hate the Chinese chick, which I have stated ad nauseum, and she looked particularly useless this episode...the Viking shield maidens were in the thick of the fight, while she hid in her tent with her drug stash. Hoped that the Franks would butcher her, and get her off my screen. Which is not very nice, but I am trying to emulate Lagertha, my new role model. Lagertha, had she known about the drugs, would have probably offed the ex-slave on the spot for Interfering with the king's thinking at the start of a major raid, which ended in disaster. 

 

Also, Erlander needs to die, and now he knows that Bjorn has his ring and his number. Hope that gives him a reason to sweat.

[Lamima]

I saw things busting on the ships with liquid in them that would shower everything...likely flammable stuff. Maybe it was sacs made from animal skins or something??? 

[jnymph]

After a rewatch:

WTF? I know Ragnar is incapacitated by the drugs, but why did Lagertha ( & other major players) think a ground assault would be a good idea? They knew the archers would be up high ( right ?) so all it would take is 1 person glancing over their shoulder to see them. Dumb!

Didn't the Vikings learn the first time that the Franks are no pushovers in battle? WTF were they thinking? Somehow the gods would be with them this time?

Also, what happened to the huge wall surrounding Paris? Did I miss something there?

I was hoping Yidu was going to perish in the raid too. In the previews it looks like Ragnar is trying to drown her. Hope so, so sick of the drug pushing "slave".

[The Kings Foot]

I  was rewatching the battle scene, and I wondered...what did they catapult onto the Viking ships...clearly it was something highly combustible, but I can't figure out what it was...looked like deflated pumpkins. Anybody know?

 

 

Most likely  satchels or animal skins filled with oil.

[Captanne]

For me, the problem with Yidu is that there was no setup to make her likable.  I never invested emotionally as a viewer in Ragnar's affection for her.  (As opposed to his relationship with Athelstan which many have compared her relationship with Ragnar to.)

 

I realize Ragnar was frustrated in many ways with the horrid Aslaug but, quite honestly, I've never liked her or the actress' portrayal much either.  So, my personal frustration has been there all along -- there was no turning point for me as a viewer as there was for Ragnar.

 

So, it's a two pronged reason I don't like Yidu -- I see no reason to like her, and Ragnar's reason (frustration with Aslaug) has had me annoyed all along so no reason for me to identify with this sudden interest in Yidu, of all people.

 

I have no problems with the spin of the drug addiction plot because it's interesting and it has already been established that the Vikings are no strangers to hallucinogenics nor do they think they are taboo.  (Except, the difference is at Uppsala, the drugs were used in accord with religious experiences.  Ragnar's addiction to Yidu's leaves appears, at first, to be recreational and now damn dangerous to everyone around him.)

Edited April 3, 2016 by Captanne

[The Kings Foot]

Yes it has.  But is wasn't covered up in the past.  It was for all to see.  Well about the Vikings being the welfare people of that time period.  I guess it makes a good analogy. 

 

 So inaccurate. 

 

You putting modern beliefs and modes of behavior on the people that would have had no idea what youre talking about.

Welfare ?  They fought and killed and stole that gold fair and square.   Nobody gave that gold to them. they earned it with thier blood and sweat. If you are too weak to keep it, go complain to your God.

 

They really are not producers, but just take from civilizations that do produce and build. 

 

 

The Vikings were first and formost farmers. However a change in climate meant that farmland in Scandinavia (always poor) was now unable to sustain the population that had expanded in the warm period.  The excess population had no land to farm and so resorted to piracy and raiding ie  going  viking.

 

They live like rats, tattoo and treat their bodies like shit.  In many ways maybe they are worse.

 

 ???

Dude Vikings has better hygiene that your average Saxon or Frank.  The Franks and Saxons used to call the Vikings girly men becuase they combed thier hair regularly. They also bathed more often than other Europeans.  Rollo should have had better hair then any of the Franks from the beginning.  

Minifact. A lot of the Vikings had blonder hair than natural becuase they used soap with lye to kill lice. This had the side effect of bleaching thier hair.

Edited April 3, 2016 by The Kings Foot

[LOA-maker]

To me Rollo's position is a bit more complicated and gray than him simply having switched sides and now fighting for his new family. As much as I admire the Vikings in many ways I can't forget that they are the aggressors who come into other folks territories, villages and cities and raid and massacre people, enslave some of them.  They do this to people who have never done them any harm or had any previous contact with.  This show started with "our heroes" slaughtering a whole bunch of helpless monks, let's not forget that. 

 

So, yes, to me it felt kind of satisfying that Rollo won one against his brother. And he won deservedly as Rollo's defense strategy was very well planned and executed while Ragnar's strategy was crap. 

 

I am sure Rollo will pay a heavy price somehow for having betrayed his people but I don't begrudge him this victory.

i don't see what Rollo is doing wrong. he's doing exactly what the Seer said would happen. seems norse like Ragnar are strong believers in fate,and everything that happens is ordained by Odin and the like. So he has no issue in complaining against that.

After a rewatch:

WTF? I know Ragnar is incapacitated by the drugs, but why did Lagertha ( & other major players) think a ground assault would be a good idea? They knew the archers would be up high ( right ?) so all it would take is 1 person glancing over their shoulder to see them. Dumb!

Didn't the Vikings learn the first time that the Franks are no pushovers in battle? WTF were they thinking? Somehow the gods would be with them this time?

Also, what happened to the huge wall surrounding Paris? Did I miss something there?

I was hoping Yidu was going to perish in the raid too. In the previews it looks like Ragnar is trying to drown her. Hope so, so sick of the drug pushing "slave".

it was a diversion, they said so in screen. and dying in any battle is a guaranteed ticket to valhalla, so win-win on all counts. i think it was two forts upstream from Paris, it wasn't Paris itself.

[Knuckles]

"Also, what happened to the huge wall surrounding Paris? Did I miss something there?"

 

The wall is still there. Floki's wooden climbing constructs were designed to get the fighters up to the battlements, before they could be cut down by Frank archers from above. That Rollo anticipated that and had the Franks use vats of oil (you saw them being levered over the fences) and catapults of animal skins filled with oil (thanks to the posters above who figured that out) to douse the ships stranded by the chain and then set them on fire, stopped their efforts to get over the wall. The crossbows and spiked wheel were to protect the bridge over the Seine that led to the city gates. Lagertha's assault on one of the towers was simply to draw fire away from the main attack. All of it might have worked, had Rollo not been there to work out a defensive plan with Odo.

The chain worked, and had the ships not been stopped the Vikings would have been able to keep sending men to the attack. Looked like Rollo had them flood the fields near the two towers as a precaution, and stationed crossbow men to pick off any attackers. Probably did the same with the other tower as well.

As for Roland attacking the supply tents and the Vikings there...the Vikings would have done the same had the situation been reversed. l

Love watching how well the show set up the battle and how beautifully it was filmed...the close camera work made you feel the chaos and tension of battle.

[Ohwell]

Knuckles, thanks for explaining how the battle was fought.  I couldn't quite understand everything that I was watching, but all I know is, I was mesmerized by the whole thing.

 

I give credit to Rollo (and Odo) for coming up with some brilliant tactics, but I still don't like him.  I want Bjorn to come back at him.

[mirrorrim]

But how would we really "know" that his accent is wrong for that time period?  I didn't really hear anything that sounded particularly Australian (at least how I hear Australians speak today) and, frankly, the Vikings on the show sound a bit German to my ears.   That's because I haven't had the opportunity to hear many Scandinavians speak. 

I'm only noticing it because it's SO different from how they normally speak "Viking." I have no idea if their Viking-speak is accurate, but the show portrays the Viking men speaking in this soft, high-pitched voice, and then every so often Travis will go deep and really speak from the back of the throat more. I wish there was an easy way to post a clip. There was another scene in this episode where he's talking to someone and the last half of the sentence his Viking accent is gone.

[BitterApple]

Regarding the Shieldmaidens, did they really engage in hand to hand combat or was that creative liberty on behalf of Hirst? I'm an average-sized woman and the thought of me trying to fight Rollo or Bjorn is kind of ludicrous.

Edited April 3, 2016 by BitterApple

[TaurusRose]

As with every show that deals with history, the writers pick and choose what they want to tell. While the Vikings in many ways were progressive when it came to their own free-women, there is a reason why you'll find people with Scandinavian genetics as far down as northern Africa. And it wasn't just because of their settlements. Progressive gender politics was only for free-women; raping across country was a national sport when it came the countries they invaded. But showing that would make even the most history-as-it-were inclined watchers turn away from ther screens, so instead we have Lagertha killing a man who was about to rape a woman in season one, and then not showing anything close to that since.

Referencing the bold part...truth bomb. Especially since so many viewers appear to watch historical shows and compare events to 21st century standards. It makes me wish more people would study world history to understand the past and learn from it. We've made staggering advances in certain areas (technological, some humanitarian), but in others we are still ignorant, greedy, raiders unable to grasp the importance of cooperation, diversity, empathy, compassion and generosity.

 

That was Roland, Odo's chief lieutenant who is busy betraying Odo to the Emperor on the side. And to be fair, all armies try and attack the rear of their enemy if they can.

I understand that. His bearing was just so smug and superior, and that's what I reacted to.

 

I think people back then were so used to walking ankle deep in filth, a little horse shit coating their hems probably didn't phase them.

I'm sure the wardrobe handlers don't share that opinion. LOL

 

Helga is played by one of the daughters of the producer - I am hoping because of the family connection she will continue to be on the show.

I'm not married to Helga or Bjorn's current girlfriend. If Helga survives, I hope it's plot driven and not nepotism because that would truly suck.

 

Second of all, even if he is her ex and babydaddy, I think that Ragnar is very foolish to come up behind Lagertha and get so familiar with his "forgive me for caring" horseshit.

I disagree with the bold part. Regardless of their history, there is still a great deal of affection between Ragnar and Lagertha.

 

I'm not particularly attuned to catching slipped accents...

Neither am I and unless the acting (and everything else around the actor in a particular scene is crap), I don't care. IMO, it's hard to create accents and not everyone is adept.

 

But then it's what the Norse Gods intend, so who can say it's wrong?

I'm sure that reason will make his former companions say, "Oops, our bad! We should have put Rollo's destiny above our way of life. No betrayal here."

[SuzieBee]

I'm only noticing it because it's SO different from how they normally speak "Viking." I have no idea if their Viking-speak is accurate, but the show portrays the Viking men speaking in this soft, high-pitched voice, and then every so often Travis will go deep and really speak from the back of the throat more. I wish there was an easy way to post a clip. There was another scene in this episode where he's talking to someone and the last half of the sentence his Viking accent is gone.

 

 

It is not your imagination.  I heard the slipped accent in that line of dialog.  Yes, Fimmel went Australian there for a moment when he was yelling.  I assume it may be difficult to maintain the Swedish accent when you are emoting at that decibel level.

 

I have respect for how well these actors are coached in unfamiliar accents.  It is one thing to sing in a different accent, with different, more pure vowels; in fact, it is EASY compared to what these actors have to do.  Perhaps the director didn't want to re-do this part of the scene on the boat because it was just too much trouble?

[SuzieBee]

Regarding the Shieldmaidens, did they really engage in hand to hand combat or was that creative liberty on behalf of Hirst? I'm an average-sized woman and the thought of me trying to fight Rollo or Bjorn is kind of ludicrous.

 

I tend to agree with you there, to the extent that the number of shield maidens in the last battle seemed inordinately large to me.  The average man has quite a bit of an advantage in upper-body strength over a woman, giving them superior endurance.  If both practiced fighting skills and strength conditioning on a regular basis, I don't see the women catching up -- unless you are matching a BIG woman with a much smaller man, and you sure can't control that very well in a battle.

I guess if you are a young woman, it's easier.  But I am regularly at the gym working on my own endurance and strength, and being older, it's just HARD and sometimes discouraging to see my lack of progress!

Of course, I could be wrong, and I just found my book The Vikings, Elite Series from Osprey Military.  I will read up and see.

 

By the way, I seem to remember from my book, The Year 1000:  What Life Was Like in the First Millennium, that Europeans were actually pretty large people around 800-1000 AD.  It was only later, after plagues, malnutrition, etc. that the average male on the continent became smaller in stature, and hence, you see such small suits of armor in museums.   I do not know about the Vikings, though.

Edited April 4, 2016 by SuzieBee