S04.E17: Beacon Of Hope

[TwistedandBored]

I enjoyed watching this episode. I was worried Felicity would be isolated from The Team again but was happy Thea was there. I enjoyed their little conversation at the end. We really need more insight into what Felicity is feeling. We already have enough insight into Oliver's man pain, I just wish they would let us see more into Felicity's either with Donna, Diggle,  Curtis, or Thea. I choose Diggle but he has been Team Oliver all season long that I am not going to get that scene. 

 

Curtis and Captain Lance's scene where they were being chased by that Bee was funny af. I love Curtis but please don't kill his husband to in oder to jump start his journey. I like his husband. 

 

I was actually okay with Laurel in the episode. I just wish the writers would stop giving her these stupid lines. Last night when she said, "I know how passionately you love" to Oliver made my sister and I laugh soo much. We then proceed to just riff on that line too much that we had to repeat the scenes we missed. Honestly, there are endless ways that line can be used when it comes to Oliver and Laurel. LMAO

[tarotx]

It wasn't actually described like the Dodger but MG was talking about Beacon being the funniest and then talked funny episodes of Arrow and how their show was still their show like in Dodger Felicity still had a bomb around her neck. 

I noticed that, too. I don't know whether that's supposed to be a good thing or a bad thing, though?

When was the episode described like the Dodger?

[looptab]

Oh, okay, thanks :)

[Guest]

I need a gif of Felicity stuffing Donna's hair into her mouth to get her to be quiet so she could think. LOL. I love those little moments. They definitely struck gold with EBR/CR chemistry.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yeah, that was great! I may or may not have wished I could do something similar when my mom is going on and on about something while I'm trying to concentrate.

 

Constant vigilance!

Ha, Mr. EB and I still yell this at the tv (and each other) a la Barty Crouch Jr's Mad Eye Moody more often than we should.

Edited March 31, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[TwistedandBored]

I need a gif of Felicity stuffing Donna's hair into her mouth to get her to be quiet so she could think. LOL. I love those little moments. They definitely struck gold with EBR/CR chemistry.

 

I love this moment as well. 

 

[johntfs]

Frankly, I don't want Andy to be redeemed.  I want him to be a bad dude.  That chose to be a bad dude.  That let himself get taken so that he could be DD's back up plan.  I want earning their trust just a part of the plan all along.  Doesn't mean he didn't have some genuine emotions here and there or that he didn't enjoy meeting his niece but yeah, I want him to not care in the end and be the proof that blood shouldn't always be the most important factor.   

 

I get that sentiment.  However, Andy didn't look exactly pleased to be Darkh's "ace" in that last scene.  Also, in the same episode, we just had Darkh gloating over getting Murmur to murder his two buddies by threatening his grandmother.  It's far from stretch that he used similar tactics on Andy.  Another point, just because someone is evil doesn't mean they'll automatically help another evil person.  The rest of HIVE seemed happy for Darkh to rot in prison (or die there, perhaps the initial attempted shiving came from them).  I don't see any gain for Andy to help Darkh absent something fairly compelling.  "I'll have your family brutally murdered if you don't help me" is fairly compelling.

[dtissagirl]

This episode dealt with the action scenes the way I wish the show would do it every. single. episode. Couple of examples:

 

- If anyone [not me] was able to take their eyes off David's arms, they would have realized the training scene was used both for exposition [of the Alex stuff], and to display Oliver's current mood being the most frustrated human being on the planet ever.

 

- I think the fact that this was a bottle episode ended up forcing them to make the best possible use of the Palmer Tech sets. The narrative moved through the building along with the action, which was very nice to watch.

 

But really, my very favorite thing this episode portrayed, that warms my cold dead heart more than kittens and puppies and butterflies and candy, was remembering how much of a dick Oliver is to other people when he's not dating/living with/planning to marry Felicity. Awww.

Edited March 31, 2016 by dtissagirl

[nksarmi]

I don't think that's what she was saying. They both know very well what a cheating, asshat Oliver was. But in a conversation where he's talking about how he ruined his current relationship just like he's fucked up his past relationship and Laurel was trying to instill some hope into him, not kick the stupid, lying, cheating puppy while he's already down I feel like she was just giving him a pass on their former drama.

 

Eh I thought her line was really weird as well.  I think something like "Well, let's face it - you just weren't that into me and I totally didn't notice" would have worked better.  But they also should have altered the lines about "knowing how passionately he loved" because honestly - I don't think Ollie was passionate about anything before the island. I just don't think the writers want to admit how much they wrote Oliver and Laurel as a non-loving relationship because it undermines so much of what they said in earlier seasons (as opposed to what they showed).

[looptab]

"I know how passionately you love and how much it hurts once that love goes away."

 

It's just a weird line. What does she even mean? How much it hurts when which love goes away? Love as "Love", or love as the person he loves? Or Oliver's love? I don't follow.

 

Remind me, after which episode we suspected Arrow might do a bottle episode? The crossover? The one with the two Felicitys?

[ComicFan777]

Even though Felicity & Thea's friendship is mostly off-screen, their scenes together were really great to see.  Something I wouldn't mind seeing more of...as long as Thea isn't MG's sock puppet, of course.

 

[dtissagirl]

Remind me, after which episode we suspected Arrow might do a bottle episode? The crossover? The one with the two Felicitys?

 

I'm actually legit impressed they managed to do 85 episodes without going full bottle before. I come from sci-fi fandoms that had to do their first bottle ep by late S1.

[AyChihuahua]

The line should have been: "I know how passionately you love. I watched while you passionately loved lots of people. I mean, other people, obviously. Not me." 

[Password]

I'm missing something, when was Oliver distracted?

[bijoux]

I'm missing something, when was Oliver distracted?

Towards the end when he went to check if Felicity was okay after he restrained Brie. That's when the giant bee thing came up behing him. Did that thing get a name?

[apinknightmare]

I'm missing something, when was Oliver distracted?

When he asked Felicity if he was okay when he got into Palmer Tech. The Bee Man attacked him from behind.

[tarotx]

Maybe Laurel was supposed to say some thing like "I know how passionately you love her and how much it hurts once that (kind of deep) love goes away". That's my cannon any way :p Laurel has never gotten over Oliver so she does know. Plus she lost Tommy as well. And Sara. 

"I know how passionately you love and how much it hurts once that love goes away."

 

It's just a weird line. What does she even mean? How much it hurts when which love goes away? Love as "Love", or love as the person he loves? Or Oliver's love? I don't follow.

 

Remind me, after which episode we suspected Arrow might do a bottle episode? The crossover? The one with the two Felicitys?

[looptab]

I'm actually legit impressed they managed to do 85 episodes without going full bottle before. I come from sci-fi fandoms that had to do their first bottle ep by late S1.

There are half-hour comedies that do it, and do it often. I don't know whether it's good for Arrow that they've refrained so far, or if they should have done one every now and then to save some money. Now I'm hung up because I clearly remember the possibility of it coming up this season after some episode we though blew the budget, but I can't remember which one. Maybe ep 7 with its use of 200 useless extras, haha.

[Guest]

I didn't even realize this was a bottle episode LOL. 

 

No one does bottle episodes like Community though. Perfect television. 

[dtissagirl]

I didn't even realize this was a bottle episode LOL.

 

That's the best possible compliment you can give a bottle episode. :)

[nksarmi]

The line should have been: "I know how passionately you love. I watched while you passionately loved lots of people. I mean, other people, obviously. Not me." 

 

That would have had me tearing up from laughing so hard and might have made me like Laurel again.  Self-awareness is a very attractive quality to me.

[Password]

Another episode in which Oliver states he doesn't care about being a vigilante and would rather carpool and play master chef.

Hahahaha hahahaha. It will never get old.

[NumberCruncher]

For being a bottle episode, I liked that it didn't feel like one which is important. While it was total filler it at least kept me engaged so I'll count this one as a win.

Ditto to everyone else's comments regarding the Donna/Felicity dynamic. They are seriously so entertaining in a very natural way...which leads me to Curtis. I'll admit it--he annoys me. I don't hate him--he's fine--but they are trying way too hard with him in the comedy, perfectness, and "terrific"-ness. We get it. He's the show's shiny new toy and they can't wait to bestow a mask upon him. Even on a show known for insta-hero transitions, I have a feeling his will set a new world record so let's just get it over with because all of the hinting is getting old.

Unpopular opinion time: I didn't mind the Oliver/Laurel scenes, nor the lines they gave her to speak. I know why they had her be the one to tell Oliver he was an idiot. It's because Laurel, more than anyone else on the show, knows what a jackass he can be in relationships. She also knows that how he loves because she was in a relationship with him for several years. I didn't pick up on any romantic vibes from SA or KC. In fact, I thought SA did a great job keeping Oliver's reactions very cool and casual in those scenes which is a huge contrast from the puppy eyes Oliver always gives Felicity. I didn't even hate the face touching by KC because again, Stephen didn't react as to indicate that Oliver was seeing it anything more than an old friend trying to comfort him.

Emily Kinney continues to be rather cringe-worthy in her villain role. I think had she dialed it down just a smidgen it wouldn't have been so jarring, but all-in-all it was passable.

For as much as I loathe Malcolm even I had to admit that JB's snarky/bitchy jabs at Darhk were entertaining. I still need Malcolm to die though.

Edited March 31, 2016 by NumberCruncher

[Midnight Lullaby]

Another episode in which Oliver states he doesn't care about being a vigilante and would rather carpool and play master chef.

Hahahaha hahahaha. It will never get old.

Poor boy, LOL. I kinda feel bad for him.

[johntfs]

For my part I can see Oliver reading the Harry Potter books.  Figure Felicity loves them, so Oliver bought them and read them with the same grim intensity with which and Explosive Ordnance/Demolitions expert would study the manual for a nuclear weapon he was about to defuse.

[Delphi]

Harry Potter came out in 1998 in the us and they were up to the fifth movie before Oliver was shipwrecked. So I don't see how they thought he wouldn't know about Voldemort and how he didn't know about the movies.

[bethy]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one whose reaction to Laurel's line about knowing how passionately Oliver loves was, "HOW?!" Because any passionate love for Laurel has never, ever, ever been shown on screen. It seems much like her knowledge of Oliver's bones, honestly.

Edited March 31, 2016 by bethy

[TVHappy9463]

There where light moments and props to the writers and cast for giving it a try, but it just seems so out of place on this show.  I will be surprised if after the scenes we witnessed tonight 

Laurel

isn't in the grave, but stranger things have happened.  And the promo for next week isn't helping matters.  A show runner once said they don't have control over the promos, they are done by the network and their intentions are different than the producers when promoting an episode. 

 

Would everyone's heads explode if Diggle turns out to be the "him" they have been referring to?  It would certainly set up an interesting arc for S5 and DR would get some much deserved screen and story time.  

 

I don't know about the rest of you but I will be scouring the web for the tiniest spoiler tidbit between now and next Wednesday.  I am still not convinced by the pap photos that got leaked.  And it is not that I dislike that actor/or character and want them gone, but I don't want to be disappointed by a death that means nothing to the forward momentum of the show.  

 

 

[TwistedandBored]

The line should have been: "I know how passionately you love. I watched while you passionately loved lots of people. I mean, other people, obviously. Not me." 

 

My sister said the same thing. Afterwards we kept trying to one up each other. I should be grateful for that line cause it made the episode funnier for us. 

[KirkB]

I could see pre-island Oliver reading the Harry Potter books in order to attract younger women...wait, that came out a bit creepier than I intended.

 

Once I realized the bees were working together and replicating like nanites I could accept their humanoid form but what I started wondering was who programmed them to fight? They were countering blows and smacking Oliver around which, admittedly, isn't as difficult as it used to be but still.

 

Curtis, I liked at first, but for some reason the more I see the more annoying he becomes. No, not annoying, that's not the right word. I think maybe it's because he feels like the kind of character you introduce on one show expressly for the purpose of spinning off to his own show, which takes away from the people who actually belong on that show.

 

Amazingly, the flashbacks are becoming even dumber and more boring, and I already thought they were pointless.

 

Given that it was integral to the episode, I still don't see why Laurel's cry looks so odd and does such little damage when I thought Silver Banshee's worked very well over on Supergirl.

[lemotomato]

I don't know about the rest of you but I will be scouring the web for the tiniest spoiler tidbit between now and next Wednesday.  I am still not convinced by the pap photos that got leaked.  And it is not that I dislike that actor/or character and want them gone, but I don't want to be disappointed by a death that means nothing to the forward momentum of the show.  

If you go to the spoilers thread (I know, it's a lot to go through) you'll find several breakdowns on how everything points to

Laurel

being in the grave. I was skeptical too, but the evidence is pretty compelling.

[InsertWordHere]

Harry Potter came out in 1998 in the us and they were up to the fifth movie before Oliver was shipwrecked. So I don't see how they thought he wouldn't know about Voldemort and how he didn't know about the movies.

I thought he was joking about not being aware of the HP movies. I didn't take either his statement about reading the books or his lack of knowledge that there were movies based on those books at face value. I don't know why the others acted so surprised that he knew about Voldemort except that he usually ignores their references.

[Actionmage]

I was actually wondering if Brie would get sprung for HIVE to recruit. They would be more than willing to help her out in exchange for her bee tech. I also want her to end up the head of HIVE.

[dtissagirl]

I was expecting Brie to be working for HIVE solely because BEES AND HIVE, I MEAN COME OOOOOOON.

[AyChihuahua]

There are several positive reviews of this episode, so I guess I'll have to rewatch. I didn't hate it, but I found it really underwhelming and forced. I was stone cold sober last night, which of course is always a mistake when watching this show, so maybe I'll get some booze for my rewatch.

 

I agree that they overdid it a little with Curtis. I think he's such a good example of why BOTH writing AND acting are important, though. He's a bit like Ray, and I loathed Ray. And not at all bc he was Felicity's love interest...I wanted Felicity to have a non-Oliver love interest, but while I definitely disliked some of the writing, especially in 17, I really don't think Routh has pretty much any charisma. Echo, on the other hand, is in the running for real life people I want to be best friends with. I just love him, I think he's great in the part, and for me he makes up for the writing deficiencies.

[Delphi]

I thought he was joking about not being aware of the HP movies. I didn't take either his statement about reading the books or his lack of knowledge that there were movies based on those books at face value. I don't know why the others acted so surprised that he knew about Voldemort except that he usually ignores their references.

Oh that makes more sense. I'll take that.

Sidebar: she's not a terribly compelling villain by any means but did they really have to put the Bug Eyed Bandit in a coma? That seemed a bit much to me.

[BunsenBurner]

I watched this  episode with closed captioning on and the volume on low.  When Donna starts spelling breakup and already knowing it was going to be spelled wrong, I watched the CC they spelled it correctly! I was completely taken out of the show at that point. 

[benteen]

For my part I can see Oliver reading the Harry Potter books.  Figure Felicity loves them, so Oliver bought them and read them with the same grim intensity with which and Explosive Ordnance/Demolitions expert would study the manual for a nuclear weapon he was about to defuse.

 

Heheh.

 

I remember Oliver saying in Season 1 (during the flashbacks I believe) that the only book he ever read was The Odyssey.

 

Although the first Harry Potter movie came out in October 2001 so if he disappeared in 2003, he would have known about it.

Edited March 31, 2016 by benteen

[DrSpaceman10]

The (unintentionally) funniest part of the episode for me was that board member saying "Phil, Phil!"/"I can't get a signal!". LOL. 

 

I like Echo, but in my opinion, I don't think Curtis would work as a full time Team member or a regular cast member. I mean he would get a mask, presumably fight in the field, hack and design tech (like that special Arrow)? That's too Gary Stu for me. 

[InsertWordHere]

Although the first Harry Potter movie came out in October 2001 so if he disappeared in 2003, he would have known about it.

He disappeared in 2007. Both the last Harry Potter book and the fifth movie came out in July, 2007. He definitely would have been aware of Voldemort, regardless of reading the books or watching the movies or how much partying he was doing. 

[jay741982]

Oh that makes more sense. I'll take that.

Sidebar: she's not a terribly compelling villain by any means but did they really have to put the Bug Eyed Bandit in a coma? That seemed a bit much to me.

It's so she come back in the season finale for a battle to the death with Felicity LOL. But seriously I've already mentioned how this season could end with Oliver Vs DD, Diggle vs Andy, Felicity vs Brie and Thea vs Malcolm in the finale

[looptab]

Haha, well, to be fair Oliver was supposed to be down during the one with Laurel. To me the difference is that Caity manages to make it feel natural, and KC seems to be going "One, two, three, now touch his face".

Since earlier we discussed the face touch: I rewatched, and, TBF, it's seems ok when she does. It's when she touches his shoulder shortly before that, that I got the "One, two, three" feeling.

[foreverevolving]

He disappeared in 2007. Both the last Harry Potter book and the fifth movie came out in July, 2007. He definitely would have been aware of Voldemort, regardless of reading the books or watching the movies or how much partying he was doing. 

He would have been aware of it simply for the fact that he was in his early teens when the first book came out, and he has a kid sister who most likely read the books and asked them to be read to her.

Again, are we really to believe Oliver never read Thea the Harry Potter books?!

[Guest]

Did you ever think we'd reach a point where we'd be debating when Oliver read the Harry Potter books? Not me! LMAO.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Guest

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Arrow Makes A Million Bee Puns
Strap in for Ralph Wiggums's favorite episode. It'll BEE great!

[calliope1975]

Y'know... While Iw as watching the episode I didn't think the Cry looked that silly... But then I saw a gif and I was proven wrong. It looks ridiculous. 

 

 

 

Given that it was integral to the episode, I still don't see why Laurel's cry looks so odd and does such little damage when I thought Silver Banshee's worked very well over on Supergirl.

 

Silver Banshee and Lydia on Teen Wolf both do the same thing yet somehow it works in both those cases and not with Laurel, and I really don't know why. 

 

Finally caught the episode this morning. Overall, I liked it. I liked Thea, Felicity, and Donna. I understand the break up, but I hope it's resolved soon. Curtis sure is terrific, but he's no Felicity Smoak. 

 

Other than that, I'm tired and agree with everyone's observations. 

Edited March 31, 2016 by calliope1975

[Adira]

Quote isn't working correctly, but looptab said:

 

The light bulbs break, the computer screens don't...o-kay.

 

Light bulbs are made out of glass, but computer screens are plastic, so this actually made sense.

[looptab]

Quote isn't working correctly, but looptab said:

 

Light bulbs are made out of glass, but computer screens are plastic, so this actually made sense.

ha! I honestly didn't know that, thought they were made out of glass - not the same as light bulbs, but glass nonetheless. :)

[ComicFan777]

ha! I honestly didn't know that, thought they were made out of glass - not the same as light bulbs, but glass nonetheless. :)

 

If the monitors are LCD, then they have two thin layers of glass that sandwich liquid crystals in the middle for optical display.  Just read new tech can be made with plastic, too.  Touch screens have a top layer of plastic film and glass below, so when you touch it, the plastic hits the glass.

 

Edited March 31, 2016 by ComicFan777

[looptab]

Don't make me question my certainties, people!11!!