S04.E17: Beacon Of Hope

[tv echo]

I also want to point out that Oliver and Felicity returned to Star City because Laurel and Thea came to Ivy Town in person and asked for the Arrow's help.  Even without Felicity's encouragement, would Oliver really have said 'no, I won't help you - you go along and get yourselves killed'?  So where's the blame for Laurel and Thea?  Why didn't Oliver say to Laurel that he was happy in Ivy Town but returned to Star City "because you and my sister came to me for help"?

 

Once they were back in Star City, although Felicity wanted to stay, she gave Oliver the choice and told him she'd be happy wherever he was.  He chose to stay.  Once he saw what the team was up against, I don't think he would've turned his back on the team and returned to his obliviously blissful life in Ivy Town.

 

ETA: The misleading dialogue written for Oliver to say in 417 was just another case of throwing Felicity under the bus.

Edited April 1, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

Like a pistachio?

You kid, but I couldn't open two of the suckers today and had to throw them away uneaten. Donna, I thought of you at the moment. Edited April 1, 2016 by bijoux

[Angel12d]

You kid, but I could open two of the suckers today and had to throw them away uneaten. Donna, I thought of you at the moment.

 

Haha, I hate it when that happens!  Such a waste! ;P

[dtissagirl]

Couldn't the lack of it be telling?  The idea of Felicity being scared since being shot has run just beneath the surface, but she is not fessing up to it.  It would not be hard to presume a lot of heart and head whopping fears would follow being shot while driving down the boulevard after becoming a fiancé.  Fears....of self dying/injured, fears of Oliver dying/injured....she has loads of potential to be afraid of losing what she just got in life.  Some emotions act as logic defying parasites eating away at even the soundest and rightest arguments.  They have made a point several times to show us Felicity just wont come clean with feelings/thoughts/fears and the annoyance that they are not showing her POV enough speaks to that.

 

The problem I have here is they're not doing a good job of showing through writing/visuals, that Felicity is hiding this specific fear of violence as a result of her injury. Last year she wasn't allowed to vocalize her feelings, but in every single interaction with Oliver, EBR portrayed the unspoken feelings Felicity had for him.

 

TV is a visual medium -- even the LACK of something [like Felicity hiding her feelings] has to be portrayed via dialogue or images somehow. They aren't doing this with Felicity.

 

And I'm willing to accept that maybe some time in some future episode she'll fess up getting paralyzed made her scared shitless, but I'll still think it wasn't portrayed prior to that point.

[BkWurm1]

I'm not sure what the feelings that Felicity is hiding from really will be about (and yeah, that is a problem, lol).  Maybe fear is a big part of it.  Maybe it's more tied up with thinking change isn't possible (daddy issues) Maybe she's in general hiding from all her feelings because she's just given up the best parts of her life.  I can't tell what, but I do feel like there is more to come. 

 

 

Like a pistachio? 

Was I being too subtle?  :D

[AyChihuahua]

I'm fine with Felicity having differing/evolving reasons for leaving and/or not returning to the team. She's gone through a lot of changes, and IRL when we do/don't do something, there's often not just one reason. I just turned down a promotion at work, for a lot of reasons, and I don't tell every person who asks why every reason. For example, I don't tell my bosses that I don't want the promotion bc I'd have to work more closely with them and I mostly hate them and think they're stupid. I don't tell friends that I don't want the promotion bc I'd have to switch fields bc then I'd have to explain the two fields, and no non-lawyer would be interested in that. I don't tell my colleagues that I don't want the promotion bc I'd have to teach/mentor them, and I really don't like talking to them (lawyers are the WORST, can't stand 'em).

 

So Felicity's immediate reason was that it hurt being around Oliver, which she only told to Oliver bc that's pretty personal. Then as she started focusing on work more and thinking how many people she could help that way that also became a reason, and being afraid bc she was shot and paralyzed could be another reason. She's unlikely to tell Thea the more personal stuff, so their discussion focused on the more neutral work-related reasons. I find that very realistic. We often tailor what information we reveal to the audience.

 

I only have a problem with it if reasons evolve in a bizarre way. For example Oliver went from not telling about the spawn mostly bc BM told him not to, maybe a tiny bit bc he was worried Felicity would dump him, to telling Felicity would somehow endanger the kid, to him always having planned to tell her but waiting for BM to get on board. That's not a reasonable human evolution of thought processes and comes across as the writers either forgetting what they already wrote or just plotty plotting for plot.

Edited April 2, 2016 by AyChihuahua

[EmilyBettFan]

I liked Curtis and I still do like him a little bit but some people thinking he's like Felicity when she joined the team is so wrong. Felicity joined the team when Oliver was fighting for his life once again. Felicity wasn't jumping for joy or anything like that. Do these people seriously even watch the show?

Also he was too over the top which was making me cringe.

[bijoux]

 

[BkWurm1]

Ha! Missed seeing that the first time around.  I'm going to have to rewatch just to catch all the little improvised things the ladies did. 

[bijoux]

Here we go, synchronized worry tic. Courtesy of ah-maa-zing.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by bijoux

[Angel12d]

Haha, I never noticed that either. I think I might need to re-watch this one. Donna was so good especially.

 

Also, I just noticed Felicity's outfit is like she's going to a funeral. Babe is sad. :(

Edited April 2, 2016 by Angel12d

[nksarmi]

There has been a great deal of discussion about Oliver reading / or not reading.  The Oliver they have shown us is not lacking intellectual ability, he was like many teens and college aged kids who took academic pursuits less than seriously.  They took pains in show to show him as a capable and quick study with multiple languages, tech skills and so forth.  Yes, we often say Oliver acts in stupid/dumb ways, but that is shorthand in general to try to explain less than wise decisions colored with all sorts of emotional garbage.  Oliver/GA is not a dumby, he is actually didactic with keen logistical skills, situational awareness and a quick study in a large assortment of arenas.  Rant over for me.

 

Unfortunately the EPs have forgotten that he "speaks Mandarin like a native" and I largely suspect they have forgotten his speaks Russian now as well (though that fact was brought up more than once so maybe they will remember at some point).  At any rate, Oliver did manage to flunk out of four colleges or something to that effect.  I don't think it's a stretch to wonder if he really did read anything that was required of him at school.

[nksarmi]

I've sort of convinced myself that Oliver sad panda-ing is legit disrupting story comprehension. Like, seriously, the kicked puppy face has become a narrative hindrance.

 

I totally knew that would happen and there would be serious backlash on Felicity because of it.  That's why I wanted the show to paint him in the wrong very clearly instead of doing this thing where his stupid sibling agreed with him and other people validated him.  I mean, he seems to get that he lied and that was bad but I still really wish he would understand that if he had gone to her first (instead of Barry) none of this would have happened.  If she's his "go to" - life works.  That's the lesson I need him to learn. :)

[Scribbles]

The problem I have here is they're not doing a good job of showing through writing/visuals, that Felicity is hiding this specific fear of violence as a result of her injury. Last year she wasn't allowed to vocalize her feelings, but in every single interaction with Oliver, EBR portrayed the unspoken feelings Felicity had for him.

 

TV is a visual medium -- even the LACK of something [like Felicity hiding her feelings] has to be portrayed via dialogue or images somehow. They aren't doing this with Felicity.

 

And I'm willing to accept that maybe some time in some future episode she'll fess up getting paralyzed made her scared shitless, but I'll still think it wasn't portrayed prior to that point.

To clarify, I don't think she is running out of a fear of "violence" per se at all. I think what they have shown me all season is people engaged in a fight against darkness/Darhkness struggling to find hope (light).  They are actually pounding us over the head with how hard it is to find light and hope in the darkness.  Felicity says in 409 that she doesn't understand why they can't have both the life they do and marriage.  Since, she has lived through Oliver struggling to have those bits of life that are about hope, light , joy and repeatedly those are invaded by the darkness.  Although choosing a new life and direction after she thought Cooper had succumbed to the darkness via suicide seemed to work, it came back to haunt her.  Oliver having a child he can't see and has to send away is darkness winning the fight.  You can argue all day that he didn't have to and if he included her in the decision it could be different.  Here is the problem, she would be making the argument that they could keep him safe from a wheelchair she came to occupy when darkness got her during unmasked activities.  They are showing us the darkness winning victories over and over and the toll that is taking on the light/hope Felicity has been.  She has been gobsmacked.  See her lines during the kidnapping ep about the frustration of trying to fight darkness the same way with the same results.

 

I could go on and on but they are showing and telling us that the crisis for Felicity and for Oliver is about how to hold on to hope in the face of darkness.  Right now Oliver is saying he is begrudgingly in the fight against the darkness, he wants joy.  Felicity is also saying she wants to do good without the darkness.  Thea was sage in saying in this episode, someone has to stand up to the darkness and just push on through.  Harkening back to Waller and Shadow saying the way out is through.  Felicity has to get through the darkness.  Will being CEO of a company who developing hope filled devices be the answer.  She is doing a parallel to what she did with Cooper, trying to change her life to get away from the darkness and lighten up on a new path.  It was that path though that led her to Oliver and his mission and we have to see what leads her back.

 

The violence is a feature of the darkness, and it is not the violence but the darkness she currently can't conquer.  They show us her trying to find wins and places she can make a difference. 

[slayer2]

Entertaining episode! Amazing how much better the show gets without Olicity clogging it up. Ollie is far more interesting on his own (in this Batman-esque version of him). More Laurel, TRAINING scenes (woohoo). Mr. Terrific not as a chauffeur, and his home life and hubby! The fabulous Bee-lady and some well-given advice from Laurel to Ollie. Loved it!

Next week should be even more interesting with some Diggles-centric plot! I am sad however that it looks like they have decided on making Diggle Jr bad. I hate that, one thing that always bothered me about Team Arrow is how incestuous everything is. Not since season 2-ish has anyone but Felicity (with her mother now whose relationship is strained at best) been allowed to have familial relationships that really resonate and have a focus. I hate that Moira was turned against Ollie and Thea and that Thea was turned against Ollie for a spell. It's okay to have superheroes AND strong family relationships.

Regardless I'm intrigued for next week, I enjoyed Mr.Terrific so much this week and hope there's more to come. Loved Laurel telling Ollie to cool it and stop taking it out on him. Liked the reference to Cisco naming things although it was a bit of bad writing directly after to have Felicity's mother standing amazed screaming about the bees in pursuit instead of getting on the damn elevator. I guess Felicity gets her smarts from her dad then? All in all, entertaining episode to return to after a two month Arrow hiatus.

ETA still enjoyed Damian Darhk.(SP?) I know I'm in the minority here but I just enjoy the actor and I like to watch how he handles things with and without his powers. Also in a non-surprising bit of continuity,Malcolm is still a total dick. Finally: please please please can we dispense with the flashbacks now? Pretty please? If we have to have them then flashback Thea training with MM or Ollie on the Salmon Ladder because I can't take it!

Edited April 3, 2016 by slayer2

[Scribbles]

Next week should be even more interesting with some Diggles-centric plot! I am sad however that it looks like they have decided on making Diggle Jr bad. I hate that, one thing that always bothered me about Team Arrow is how incestuous everything is. Not since season 2-ish has anyone but Felicity (with her mother now whose relationship is strained at best) been allowed to have familial relationships that really resonate and have a focus. I hate that Moira was turned against Ollie and Thea and that Thea was turned against Ollie for a spell. It's okay to have superheroes AND strong family relationships.

 

I want to understand your point in this paragraph.  Since Season 2 there has been a great deal about Thea's relationship with her brother and her bio-dad, Laurel's relationship with her sister and her father, Diggle's relationship with his wife (beautiful wedding) and on and on.  Actually until Donna came on the scene, Felicity was the only character on the show weekly with no family present.  The only friend they showed her have was Walter (outside the team).  Help me understand you point better please.

[slayer2]

I want to understand your point in this paragraph. Since Season 2 there has been a great deal about Thea's relationship with her brother and her bio-dad, Laurel's relationship with her sister and her father, Diggle's relationship with his wife (beautiful wedding) and on and on. Actually until Donna came on the scene, Felicity was the only character on the show weekly with no family present. The only friend they showed her have was Walter (outside the team). Help me understand you point better please.

I feel like I've made my point and you understand what I'm saying but don't agree with it, which is what it is, mileage varies certainly on this show more than most.

The familial ties are not strong, and by familial I mean blood. Diggle's blood relative, not someone with access to ArrowCave or HIVE. In last season's finale we saw Oliver dump his sister and run off with Felicity, something he wouldn't even dream of doing seasons prior especially with Malcolm Merlyn still around. Wrt to Laurel and Sara they made a nightmare of their sisterhood to put Oliver in the middle and really only repaired it so they could throw Sara off a building. They had Oliver lie to Thea until he finally admitted the truth last season but by that time she was the one keeping secrets. They had Diggle lament for many seasons about Andy this and Andy that only to have him treat him like shit when he first showed up and have Oliver convince him to give his own brother a chance. When Felicity's mother showed up they had her treat her like shit on the bottom of her shoe until recently and still their relationship is strained at best. When Moira died she was at odds with Thea and Oliver up until she had a sword run through her chest.

Oliver now has a son with whom he never speaks of and agrees never to communicate with. He has shown more concern for his breakup with Felicity than the loss of his own son.

This episode sees Thea bonding with Felicity but none of the former scenes of seasons previous with Oliver worrying about her or caring for her have really transcended to this season since Olicity or the bloodlust.

Thea's biological father is the worst piece of shit on the planet and her brother cut off his hand, he had it coming but it just paints an ugly picture in the Arrowverse of their regard to familial blood relations especially with this sad impending Diggle story where he Diggle sr will undoubtedly have to choose and undoubtedly choose Oliver.

I don't enjoy it from a racial perspective either, that Diggle literally has no black people in his life aside from his daughter and he's about to choose Oliver (a rich white dude for which he was once his limo driver and bodyguard) over his own brother, it's a very big problem from a writing perspective. Society is not in a place where that's okay and frankly it's just ugly.

Edited April 4, 2016 by slayer2

[AyChihuahua]

Huge, ginormous, HUGE upside to next week: 

Down to only one character calling him "Ollie!"

HUZZAH!

[EmilyBettFan]

^ Amazing! I've always hated anyone except for Thea calling him Ollie. It's just so juvenile.

[BkWurm1]

I feel like I've made my point and you understand what I'm saying but don't agree with it, which is what it is, mileage varies certainly on this show more than most.

The familial ties are not strong, and by familial I mean blood. Diggle's blood relative, not someone with access to ArrowCave or HIVE. In last season's finale we saw Oliver dump his sister and run off with Felicity, something he wouldn't even dream of doing seasons prior especially with Malcolm Merlyn still around. Wrt to Laurel and Sara they made a nightmare of their sisterhood to put Oliver in the middle and really only repaired it so they could throw Sara off a building. They had Oliver lie to Thea until he finally admitted the truth last season but by that time she was the one keeping secrets. They had Diggle lament for many seasons about Andy this and Andy that only to have him treat him like shit when he first showed up and have Oliver convince him to give his own brother a chance. When Felicity's mother showed up they had her treat her like shit on the bottom of her shoe until recently and still their relationship is strained at best. When Moira died she was at odds with Thea and Oliver up until she had a sword run through her chest.

Oliver now has a son with whom he never speaks of and agrees never to communicate with. He has shown more concern for his breakup with Felicity than the loss of his own son.

This episode sees Thea bonding with Felicity but none of the former scenes of seasons previous with Oliver worrying about her or caring for her have really transcended to this season since Olicity or the bloodlust.

Thea's biological father is the worst piece of shit on the planet and her brother cut off his hand, he had it coming but it just paints an ugly picture in the Arrowverse of their regard to familial blood relations especially with this sad impending Diggle story where he Diggle sr will undoubtedly have to choose and undoubtedly choose Oliver.

I don't enjoy it from a racial perspective either, that Diggle literally has no black people in his life aside from his daughter and he's about to choose Oliver (a rich white dude for which he was once his limo driver and bodyguard) over his own brother, it's a very big problem from a writing perspective. Society is not in a place where that's okay and frankly it's just ugly.

Thank you for explaining what you meant since in reading your original post I had no idea what you were trying to say.  My best guess was it was a complaint that everything always involved family. 

[Scribbles]

I feel like I've made my point and you understand what I'm saying but don't agree with it, which is what it is, mileage varies certainly on this show more than most.

....

The familial ties are not strong, and by familial I mean blood.

I don't enjoy it from a racial perspective either, that Diggle literally has no black people in his life aside from his daughter and he's about to choose Oliver (a rich white dude for which he was once his limo driver and bodyguard) over his own brother, it's a very big problem from a writing perspective. Society is not in a place where that's okay and frankly it's just ugly.

I honestly did not get your point and am glad that you elaborated.  Thank you.  Agree or not, I want to understand what the perspective is.

 

I would agree that this show presents some very difficult family relationships and challenges assumptions.  It is always hard to know just how far blood ties should carry weight when pitted against other needs/concerns beyond family in real life and this show presents some real whoppers.  Looking at just the show, there are things I believe I have been shown I don't see your comments reflecting and would like to share those for discussion.

 

Thea:  I have seen a lot of criticisms of the early seasons Thea that I see a bit differently.  I thought Willa Holland did a great job of presenting a teenager when we first encountered Thea.  I am around that age a lot and it is tough.  They tend to want honesty from others but privacy for themselves, simultaneously push away from parents and demand parental love/attention, be very self-centered in their thinking and world view, and so many other bits that are challenging.  I note this because Willa has done a great job showing a teen growing into a young woman over the four years of the show (ages @18-22).  It is a feature of the show I give actors and writers credit for and appreciate.  Her relationship with Oliver has changed over those years not just because of their mutual experiences, individual challenges and progressions but also as a function of her growing up and they have shown it on screen.  I saw the transition in Oliver and Thea's relationship in season 3 coincide with the growth of both of them as individuals.  He respected her life choices more and she matured in making many of them.  The Malcolm factor is a whole other can of worms for both of them.

 

How much loyalty children owe their mass murdering parents is fortunately not a personal experience for me, but watching these two fictional kids deal with the sins of their parents (Malcolm, Moira, Robert) is the story they have chosen to show and tell.  I found it a sad commentary when it was pointed out that several real world bads gained redemption in the real world during discussions of Moira's candidacy.  Arrow can push buttons that remind us they may be tv characters and problems but the real world sure gives them fodder to work with too.

 

Diggle:  I have seen the show really lay out the stressors between Diggle and Andy.  Andy the bad boy always falling short of big brother's expectations has been told and shown as conflict.  I didn't react to Andy's reappearance as you did because it seemed to me in character for John to be utterly confounded by his brother being with HIVE.  John Diggle is judgmental and it impacts his relations with Andy and Lyla.  It was also in character as shown for Oliver to always give family more chances than he would anyone else and thus prompt John to do so.

 

I could go on but it is getting long so please ask if you are interested about a blood relation I haven't addressed.  I can't agree with you more how messed up the whole idea of two sisters continuing to "love" a guy who so clearly has them act against each other in lies and so forth.  That was written for impact, it had to be right?  Who is the good guy/gal in a mess like that?  That is why I really question if the BC/GA was ever intended to be end game.  The GA/BC comic book relationship is pretty messed up too with him a cheat, divorce and so forth.  I appreciate in show they point out how messed up the Sara, Laurel and Oliver gig is.  Two times Slade seemed the same one 1. when he called Oliver out for thinking he could make things right with Laurel and 2. When he noted how messed up Malcolm's fatherly act are.  Thank goodness these writers see how nuts this stuff is.

 

I agree with you that superheroes should be able to have happy/healthy families and relationships.  This show started day one letting us know not to expect them in it.  That is the struggle for Oliver and Felicity, no baggage but for it to work Oliver has to become a healthier happier human.  They chose to make Felicity Oliver's chance to redeem himself as a person capable of having a happy/healthy relationship and it isn't coming easy for him to do so.  If you think he should be with Laurel/BC it means doing so with all the past between them as shown and told.  I like Oliver despite all his flaws and am investing in seeing him shed many of them in this hero origin tale.  I am rooting for him to become worthy of the hero title but it is sometimes like watching sausage get made.

 

Again ty for responding, I am interested in mulling all perspectives.

[AyChihuahua]

Thank you for explaining what you meant since in reading your original post I had no idea what you were trying to say.  My best guess was it was a complaint that everything always involved family. 

It's funny, my probably #2 complaint about the show, behind only how dumb (and I mean actually literally intellectually dumb) they make Oliver a lot of the time, is the show's creepy obsession with blood family. Blooooooooood trumps ALLLLLLL!

[dtissagirl]

I legit hope that the focus on blood family is part of the lesson of this season -- in which they ARE exploring what family means -- that in the end, found family [i.e. Team Arrow] trumps blood family. Because if the moral of this story is that blood is indeed thicker than water, then they're writing it wrong.

[Angel12d]

I hope that's what they're exploring too. I'm actually more hopeful now that Andy seems to be on the bad side again and Diggle might have to struggle with whether to believe him or not.

[statsgirl]

In any on-going series, relationships are going to go back and forth because steady relationships make for boring TV. 

 

Oliver's relationship with Thea has gone from Thea begging him to open up to her in s1 to rejecting him in s2 because she thought he knew the secret o her parentage all along, to Oliver being ridiculously parental-protective to her in s3 to finally something approaching an adult/adult relationship.    Since Corto Maltese, Oliver has always let Thea set her own relationship with Malcolm and indeed went to rescue Malcolm so he would be there to there for her so it's not inconsistent that after paying Malcolm off by making him Ra's, thirty-year-old Oliver would leave his sister to find his own life.

 

Laurel was willing to do anything to get her sister back, including digging up her dead, dead body and lying to everyone about it.

 

I legit hope that the focus on blood family is part of the lesson of this season -- in which they ARE exploring what family means -- that in the end, found family [i.e. Team Arrow] trumps blood family. Because if the moral of this story is that blood is indeed thicker than water, then they're writing it wrong.

I really hope so because the emphasis on family (e.g. Thea/Malcolm) over friends has been ridiculous.  Diggle has been up and down about Andy even though Andy faked his death and turned bad but it was only briefly that he was actively angry at him (when Felicity was paralyzed) and that was gone by the end of the episode when Lyla pushed him to make up because Andy is his brother..

 

It's like the show is saying that found family is more important but showing that blood family really is. The only person who got to reject her blood family because he was a bad man was Felicity with her father.  Oliver has clung to Malcolm for Thea, and risked his three year relationship and happiness with Felicity (found) so that he could pretend to be William's mommy's friend (blood). 

 

Laurel lied to all her found family in Team Arrow about Sara except for Thea who she used to get Malcolm to agree to Pit Sara.

 

Quentin agreed to do Darhk's dirty work to protect his daughter (blood) and lied to his girlfriend (found).

 

Even in the flashbacks Oliver lost Poppy's support when she found out he had killed her brother.  Why didn't he ever tell her it was in self-defense?

 

So except for one case (Felicity and her father), blood has trumped found family all season.  Since we know that Malcolm  is a Bad Man and we suspect Andy is too, it's time for the characters to stop having blinkers on about blood family and judge people on their own merits.

Edited April 5, 2016 by statsgirl

[wonderwall]

I really do wonder if Oliver has already.... passed all the bees through his system already lmfao

[AudienceofOne]

Even in the flashbacks Oliver lost Poppy's support when she found out he had killed her brother.  Why didn't he ever tell her it was in self-defense?

 

Why did he agree with Slade that he "killed Shado" when there was literally nothing he could have done to save her? Oliver has a weird sense of culpability for his actions. On the one hand, it's admirable - he takes responsibility for his own behaviour. On the other hand, he takes it too far. By his internal logic, he killed Poppy's brother and so the reasons why he did it don't matter.

[Password]

I think Oliver did actually say it was in self defense or Vlad attacked him.

 

...in one of the episodes.

[BkWurm1]

I think Oliver did actually say it was in self defense or Vlad attacked him.

 

...in one of the episodes.

Eventually, but not in the moment when it most mattered.  It's a frustrating shortcut to drama. 

[Cekrypton1]

After watching the Flash/Supergirl crossover last week with Silver Banshee, why can't Arrow's FX team put in the soundwave graphics when Canary screams? Because as it is now, KC looks so stupid, and I am mortified for her, when she has to do the Canary scream.

[wonderwall]

After watching the Flash/Supergirl crossover last week with Silver Banshee, why can't Arrow's FX team put in the soundwave graphics when Canary screams? Because as it is now, KC looks so stupid, and I am mortified for her, when she has to do the Canary scream.

When does the show ever really make any effort with Laurel tbh? :/

[AyChihuahua]

I'd also really like to know whose idea it was for her to crouch like she does.

[tarotx]

They have never put in the special affects and it took a whole year to explain how the canary collar works. Some one told me its because they didn't want to look like Smallville's Canary but had no clue why the collar was never explained. 

[dtissagirl]

I have so many questions for Cisco re: inside track on that tech, but the most important one is, if Laurel yawns while wearing the collar, does it scream?

[Angel12d]

They definitely should have put sound wave effects or something on the Canary cry. But I guess they couldn't be bothered in the end. 

[Ang]

I just watched the clip of the canary cry with added effects that someone (sorry, person whose user name I can't remember) posted in the clock tower thread, and yes, I think those would have helped. I also looked up a few images of the canary cry from comics, and in some of them, she crouches a bit, although there it's usually balanced by more arm involvement.

And, since I never got to say it earlier, it was nice seeing Laurel being useful, competent, and a decent human being, especially after the prior episode stole our opportunity to imagine that at least she was a good lawyer. I didn't hate her interactions with Oliver as much as some did, but yeah, SA gives KC NOTHING back. It's kind of sad to see, especially when she's finally, you know, acting a bit.

I attribute Felicity's inconsistent motivations to poor coordination between writers, but I like the explanations about her lying to herself better, so I'll see if I can switch to that.

Curtis may have been OTT/approached annoying at times, but dang if I don't enjoy him. All I could think watching him is that EK is too good for this show (as much as I adore it in all its glorious nonsense). I hope I get to see more of him. (And Paul Blackthorne, whose dreamy, how-is-his-voice-even-real accent I didn't know about until I saw it mentioned here.)

[bijoux]

I find this episode frankly forgettable for the most part but I just saw this on Tumblr and thought I would share if there are others like me and they missed the glorious moment when Curtis and Lance played horsey. That is not what the bunker is for, guys! It's serious vigilante business down there. Oliver would be so affronted.

 

[tv echo]

Last episode week, Laurel learned that Oliver & Felicity had broken up. It seems likely that at least a part of Laurel must have secretly started hoping that Oliver would start turning back to her. In this episode, we get two scenes where Laurel is acting so supportive of Oliver...

417 (Beacon of Hope) – No Oliver Queen voiceover intro.

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Donna and then Thea visit Felicity in her office at Palmer Tech; and Curtis is getting a cold:
Felicity: "A quarter of a million dollars per unit. It's hard to believe something so small could cost so much money."
Curtis: "When Digital Equipment Corporation released the first VAX, it cost $700,000 - Achoo! Achoo! Achoo! So you could think of this as a bargain."
Felicity: "Except we're not starting a computer revolution here. We're trying to repair spinal injuries. The new estimate of spinal injuries per year are at 12,000 people. Unless everyone's a billionaire, walking again is a luxury item."
Curtis: "Sounds like something Mr. Dennis would say."
Felicity: "He already has. He's called a board meeting to discuss how many zeroes he can add to the end of that price point."
Curtis: "Achoo! Anything I can do to help you?"
Felicity: "No. You can't do anything with that cold. Go home, get some rest, get some chicken noodle soup."
Curtis: "You sound like my mother."
Donna (entering): "And I'm sure if she was here, she'd tell you to listen to my favorite girl. Hi, honey!"
Curtis: "Fine, but only because my cold medication is starting to make me see double." (Leaves)
Donna: "Aw."
Felicity: "Help - help me. Help."
Donna: "Did you hear that? He thinks we look like twins."
Felicity: "I don't think that's what he said."
Donna: "I think he did."
Felicity: "What can I help you with, Mom?"
Donna: "Well, my beautiful baby girl, I am here to rescue you. After the... b-r-e-a-c-k-u-p, you could use some regular socialization, so how about a leisurely lunch?"
Felicity: "Oh, my God. I don't know what's worse - the fact that you just spelled out 'breakup' or that you misspelled it."
Donna: "Huh?" 
Felicity: "Yeah."
Donna: "No."
Felicity: "Mom, I'm fine. I have a lot of work to do."
Donna: "No. Just a quick one, swee - (Thea enters) oh."
Thea: "Sorry. Is this a bad time?"
Felicity: "You people are like Tribbles today. What's up? Everything okay with -"
Donna: "Oliver?"
Felicity: "I was gonna say your night job, you know, that thing that you do at night."
Thea: "Yeah, no. That - that's fine. Ollie is - is fine, too. It's actually about Alex. Um, he's no longer working on the campaign, so I was -" (Felicity's cell phone rings)
Felicity: "Oh, my God. It's Mr. Dennis. I have a board meeting. You know what? He's a jerk. He can wait. What'd you want to ask me about Alex?"

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Laurel tells Oliver that she's there for him:
(Oliver is punching a workout pillar when he turns to block a punch from Laurel.)
Laurel: "Wow. You really do have eyes in the back of your head."
Oliver: "I thought you had work to do."
Laurel: "I realized it could wait. You've been pushing us pretty hard, and I know why. Oliver, it's okay to miss Felicity."
Oliver: "I - I appreciate what you're doing, but I don't think that you're the –“
Laurel: "Person to help you through it? Why? Because of what we used to have?"
Oliver: "Yeah."
Laurel: "I thought maybe it just gave me a little insight."
Oliver: "Well, I mean, in fairness, I did wreck what we had, too, so -"
Laurel: "In your defense, you were missing and presumed dead for five years, but that's not what I mean. I know how passionately you love and how much it hurts once that love goes away."
Oliver: "You know, between... Merlyn, Slade Wilson and Ra's Al Ghul, I thought that I'd be a little tougher than this by now."
Laurel: "That's a different type of pain, and this takes longer to heal. But I'm here for you."
Oliver: "Thank you."

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Brie Larvan, a/k/a The Bug-Eyed Bandit, returns:
(Man enters the board room.)
Mr. Dennis: "You're not late, Phil. We're still waiting on Ms. Smoak."
(Phil starts groaning and clutching his chest.)
Mr. Dennis: "Are you all right? Phil? Phil? Phil!"
Phil: "Argh!"
Mr. Dennis: "I'm calling 911! I can't get a signal!"
(Bees swarm from Phil's body.  Brie Larvan enters the room.)
Brie: "Ah! You'll have to excuse my tiny friends. Their 'beehavior' can be appalling sometimes... But it's a necessary evil. You see, I needed your full attention."
Mr. Dennis: "What the hell do you want?"
Brie: "Straight to the point. I like that. Your CEO has miraculously recovered from paralysis thanks to an implantable biostimulant microchip. Hand one over, and I'll 'bee' on my way."
Mr. Dennis: "There's only one prototype."
Brie: "The one inside Felicity Smoak.  So what's a girl got to do to get on her calendar?"
(Cut to Felicity's office.)
Felicity: "I can talk to Alex if you want, but I can't promise a job he'll be excited about. Probably best to keep him away from a supervillain's wife."
Thea: "Yep. You're right about that."
Brie (from Felicity's computer screen): "Hello out there."
Thea: "What the hell?"
Brie (from computer screen): "I'm looking for Felicity Smoak 'beecause' it would be swell if we could chat about a certain implantable biochip. I'm sure your board would really appreciate it."
Felicity: "Brie Larvan!"
Donna: "You know this wackadoodle?"
Felicity: "I had a run-in with her last year."
Donna: "If this Brie Larvan is coming for you, we need to get you out of here."
Felicity: "No, no, no. I don't think she knew who I was. She's after something else."
Thea: "She said something about an implant."
Felicity: "A biostimulant microchip. There's only one working prototype."
Thea: "Where is it?"
Felicity: "In the base of my spine."
Donna: "Which brings me back to - we need to get you the hell out of here."
Felicity: "Well, we have to get everyone out of here!"
Thea: "I can't even get a signal."
Felicity: "She's jammed all communications."
Donna: "Oh, my God."
(They watch as a lot of bees swarm outside the office window.)

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Felicity, Thea and Donna run to escape from the bees:
Brie (from phone screen): "I am running out of patience, Felicity Smoak. You have 10 minutes before I start voting board members out. FYI, my drones pack a lot more 'ow' than your typical sting. Tick tock, tick tock."
Thea: "Okay. We need to get out of here."
Donna: "But, Thea, the bees are out there."
Felicity: "Yeah, and sooner or later, they're gonna be in here."
Donna: "Okay. From now on, I'm buying flats. I mean, these assaults are weekly. It's ridiculous. It's just so not conducive to high fashion." (Takes off her heels)
(Thea looks outside the office door.)
Thea: "Okay. Definitely sooner than later."
Donna: "What? We're trapped?"
Felicity: "Uh, I don't know. (Removes cover from air duct vent) Not exactly."
Donna: "Okay. Oh, no. I don't definitely don't have the right shoes for that."
*  *  *
Felicity, Thea and Donna climb down into a hall in another part of the building.)
Thea: "How did you deal with her in the first place?"
Felicity: "The old-fashioned way - hacking, but I can't do that without a working computer."
Thea: "Okay. Well, at least all we have to do is wait for Ollie and the rest of them to get here."
Felicity: "Just when I thought I was out. I thought I'd left this all behind."
Donna: "Do you hear that?"
Felicity: "Bee. (Buzzing intensifies) Make that plural - bees! In the air vent. Go! Run!"
(They run down the hallway.)

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Oliver, Diggle and Laurel try to rescue the others, but are blocked by Bee-man:
(Felicity, Thea and Donna run into supply closet and shut the door.)
Donna: "Ohh!"
Thea: "Okay. How many are there?"
Felicity: "Just try to think happy thoughts."
(Donna picks up yellow "Wet Floor" sign and holds it up against her. Cut to Arrow Bunker.)
Curtis: "Okay. Now it's time to hack some bees. (Presses button and lights go off) Okay. So that's what that button does." (Presses button and lights go back on)
(Cut back to supply closet, where a bee has gotten in.)
Donna (pointing to bee): "Felicity."
Felicity: "Ohh!"
Donna: "Aah!"
Curtis (voice from bee): "Felicity!"
Felicity: "Curtis?"
Donna: "How do you know that bee's name?"
Curtis (voice from bee): "I did it! I hacked the - achoo! Bees!"
Felicity: "How did you - what are you doing there?"
Curtis (voice from bee): "I know, right? I am still pinching myself."
(Felicity, Thea and Donna leave the supply closet and go down the hall.)
Felicity: "Heh. All the bees are gone."
Curtis (voice from bee): "You're welcome. The Green Arrow is on his way, as well as Black Canary and Spartan. How cool is this? Uh, they'll meet you at the west utility entrance. Can you get there? Did I mention how cool this is?"
(Cut to Oliver, Diggle and Laurel approaching the building.)
Oliver (over comms): "Curtis, have you deactivated the bees?"
Curtis (over comms): "Negative. Uh, I mean, positive. Sorry. I'm nervous. The bees are down. Uh-oh. Now it's a negative. Negative! The bees are back! I - I got kicked out!"
(Swarm of bees form a wall in the alley outside the building, between Oliver, Diggle and Laurel on one side, and Felicity, Thea and Donna on the other. Bees form into a Bee-man, whose body deflects arrows and bullets.)
Oliver (to Laurel): "Duck! Argh! Ugh."
Thea (to Felicity and Donna): "Okay, okay, come on. Go back inside. Back inside."

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Felicity comes up with a plan:
(Felicity, Thea and Donna are back in the supply closet.)
Donna: "What did that thing do to the Green Arrow?"
Felicity: "Stung him badly."
Thea: "He'll be okay, and he'll be back. So will the others."
Donna: "How do you know? They just got their butts kicked by that - that - that Bee-man."
Felicity (to Thea): "This is why we leave the nicknames to Cisco."
Thea: "Yeah."
Donna: "What?"
Felicity: "Inside joke."
(Felicity's cell phone rings.)
Brie (from phone screen): "I thought we were friends, Smoak, that you were gonna come through. 10 minutes ago, you had 10 minutes to go. You're out of time, Glasses. 'Beecause' we got interrupted, I'm gonna give you an additional 5 minutes before I start taking your board members off the board."
Donna: "Ohh."
Brie (from phone screen, looking at photo of Oliver and Felicity): "Oh, and your fiance looks awfully sweet. Sorry. Ex-fiance."
Donna: "Ugh!"
Thea: "Okay. You cannot turn yourself in."
Felicity: "No. She'd kill everyone anyway."
Donna: "To think, she's in your office. You're gonna have to sanitize."
Felicity: "Yes. She's in my office, which is, 'A,' yes, gross, but, 'B,' means she's not with the board members."
Donna: "You know, since she brought up Oliver, honey, have you spoken to him since -?"
Felicity: "Mom. Mom, Mom, Mom, I'm thinking!"
Donna: "I'm sorry. You know what, honey? I'm curious, okay? I -"
Felicity: "I have an idea."

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Felicity makes an explosive shortcut to the board room to rescue the board members:
Felicity: "You get them?"
Thea: "Yeah. They were in Curtis' office, right where you said they'd be.  Uh, no pun intended."
(Felicity opens secret elevator door in wall.)
Donna: "Whoa! So this is like that thing from that, uh - that Jodie Foster movie!"
Thea: "Yeah. A panic room."
Felicity: "It's actually more like a lair, decommissioned, but if we can get the board members in there, then they can escape through a secret exit."
Donna: "Secret exit? Um, don't you think you should have thought of that, like, I don't know, 15 minutes ago."
Felicity: "Oh, I'm sorry. I was busy trying not to die, and you were talking, talking, talking."
Donna: "Well, you don't open up to me, hon. I have to force your feelings out of you sometimes like - like a pistachio."
Thea: "Okay, Smoaks. We got to go. Come on." (She and Felicity enter the elevator)
Donna: "Felicity."
Felicity: "Mom!"
Donna: "I meant... (Sees swarm of bees) Felicity! Aah! Aah!" (Runs into elevator)
(Felicity closes the elevator door.)
Thea: "Ohh. Okay. We're moving."
Felicity: "I know. Hold on to something."
Donna: "What? Why?"
Thea: "Why?"
Felicity: "This elevator only stops at the sublevel, and we need it to stop at the -" (Hotwires elevator circuit board to stop elevator)
Donna: "Aah!"
Felicity: "Conference room floor."
(Elevator door opens to a concrete wall.)
Donna: "Um, I think we missed our stop."
Felicity: "Nope. This is right. Like I said, the elevator doesn't stop at this level."
Donna: "What? Um, honey, I think this is a concrete wall."
Thea: "Yeah, and these are explosive devices."
Felicity: "Actually, they're autonomous communication devices. I'm just really hoping that Curtis hasn't figured out how to stop them from exploding yet."
Thea: "Oh. Careful."
Donna: "Oh, my God! Is it gonna be loud?"
(Cut to board room where explosion knocks hole in wall. Thea and Felicity step out of the elevator.)
Thea: "Okay. Who wants to go on a secret elevator ride down to the, um -"
Felicity: "Panic room."
Thea: "Yeah. The panic room."
Felicity: "Come on."
(Board members enter the elevator with Donna.)
Brie: "Trying to escape the hive?"
Felicity (to Donna): "Keep them safe." (Reaches inside elevator to press button)
Donna: "Huh? What?!" (Elevator door closes)

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Brie Larvan threatens to kill Thea if Felicity doesn't give her the microchip specs:
(Brie with gun walks Felicity and Thea back to Felicity's office.)
Brie: "Beautiful creatures, my bees."
Felicity: "They obey you."
Brie: "Neural implants."
Felicity: "You used to control them the old-fashioned way."
Brie: "How did you know that?"
Felicity: "Lucky guess, I guess."
Thea: "So why bees? Why not an obsession with flying squirrels?"
Brie: "Squirrels aren't dying off at a rate of 30% per year, and nobody cares, but bees are essential to life. We're all connected. The world is one giant honeycomb."
Felicity: "That 'kumbaya' might have a little more credibility if you weren't threatening people's lives."
Brie: "What, you mean like this? (Points gun at them) I am running out of patience, and your friend is running out of time. Now give me the damn - (She has a back spasm) That was embarrassing. I have a tumor on my L4 vertebrae. The tricky little guy's wrapped around my spinal cord. The only way to cut it out involves a surgery that will leave me paralyzed from the waist down. All the bees in the world couldn't get a cripple to walk, and then I read about your miracle chip. Of course, I couldn't afford it."
Felicity: "Maybe if you asked nicely."
Brie: "I want the microchip specs, or your friend relives my favorite scene from My Girl."
Thea: "Okay, honey. We all have a sad sob story, but killing people doesn't fix anything."
Felicity: "The blueprints are on a remote hard drive in Curtis Holt's lab."
Brie: "You are a smart girl." (Leaves)

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Laurel tells Oliver that he's a beacon of hope to people:
Laurel: "Any puppies you want to kick while you're at it? Bags of kittens that you want to throw down the river?"
Oliver: "He needed to hear that."
Laurel: "Nobody needs to hear that, Oliver. I know you're hurting, but you can't take it out on Curtis."
Oliver: "I'm not taking it out on Curtis. I just need him to see."
Laurel: "See what?"
Oliver: "That this is not a good life. I walked away from it, and I was happy. For the first time in eight years, I was content."
Laurel: "So why did you come back?"
Oliver: "I came back because of Felicity. She convinced me that we could do this job - that we could save this city and not surrender to the darkness, but... I don't - I don't think that we can."
Laurel: "You're only saying that right now because you're in 10 different kinds of pain. But the harsh truth is that Felicity - she broke up with you because of your choices, because lies that you told. You, Oliver, not the Green Arrow."
Oliver: "I know. It just doesn't seem fair that I can save a city and not save my relationship."
Laurel: "Oliver, life's not fair, whether you're in Star City or Ivy Town. But you're right. You can save this city. You do it every night. You're a beacon of hope to people. (Puts her hand on Oliver's arm) I just wish that you would try and use some of that hope for yourself." (Uses her hand to cup Oliver's face for a long moment)

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Felicity tells Thea that she and the rest of Team Arrow are the beacon of hope:
Thea: "I thought we were locked out."
Felicity: "Well, we're gonna have to see if I haven't lost my touch. Then I have to see if my mom and the board members made it to safety."
Thea: "You really should not have given Brie what she wanted."
Felicity: "I am sick of people being put in vulnerable positions."
Thea; "Yeah. Well, now there's nothing stopping her from bringing those bee things back on us."
Felicity: "Well, at the very least, it buys us - the team - your team time."
Thea: "Ollie's gonna be fine. He always is."
Felicity: "Well, unfortunately, in Oliver's case, 'he always is' isn't an accurate predictive metric. Sorry. I'm just sick of worrying, I'm sick of the violence."
Thea: "Yeah. So am I, okay? Of course I am, but we put up with it. We push past it because what we do is important, okay? We have to be the beacon of hope. Nobody else is."
Felicity: "You're the beacon of hope. I quit the team because I couldn't stand to work with Oliver, but - but now that I'm out, I look at life from a different perspective. I mean, look around you. Thea, we're in a Die Hard movie with bees. Maybe I'm meant for great things, maybe I'm not, but whatever it is, it's not this. Sorry. I'm not coming back."

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Brie Larvan finds out that Felicity is the hacker who defeated her before:
Oliver: "Curtis."
Curtis: "You know, I'm beginning to see why you and Felicity didn't work out."
Oliver: "I probably deserve that."
Curtis: "Look. I'm all for hugs and learning, but like you said, there's still danger."
Oliver: "Yeah."
Curtis: "And you are a very scary man."
Diggle (entering): "Any luck with the bees?"
Laurel: "Curtis is doing his best."
Curtis: "Thanks, Laurel. Now that I've been able to actually examine the bee, I've deciphered their upgrade protocol. Next time they adapt, I can upload a virus that will disperse into the entire hive."
Quentin: "Like what they did in Independence Day, right? (The others look at him) What, I can't watch movies, too?"
Oliver: "So what's the plan?"
Curtis: "I rigged an arrow with a computer virus payload. Shoot it near one of 'bee' [unintelligible word]'s minions, the virus will transmit to the rest of the colony, and we're done."
Oliver: "That's nice work."
Curtis: "Uh... wait until it works before you congratulate me."
(Cut to Felicity's office at Palmer Tech.)
Felicity: "I'm in! I mean, I'm out. I mean, I have Internet. Mom and the board members, they're okay."
Thea: "What about us?"
Felicity: "I'm working on overriding the bees, the ones that are outside guarding the building."
Brie (entering): "Don't bother. These blueprints will be useful. Thanks for those."
Thea: "You have what you want, so go build it yourself."
Brie: "I think we're confused. To get the schematics, I had to tip-toe through Palmer Tech's computer network, and I saw some very familiar computer code. You never forget the hacker who sent you to prison."
Felicity: "Hi."

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Team Arrow and Curtis defeat Brie Larvan and her bees:
Diggle: "We're clear."
Laurel: "At least there's no signs of the bees."
(Bee-man appears, Laurel uses her sonic scream and Diggle shoots at him.)
Diggle (to Oliver): "Go! 
(Oliver runs off. Cut to Felicity’s office inside the building, where a bee threatens Felicity. Gunshots sound outside.)
Brie: "Looks like your green friend didn't forget about you."
(Oliver enters and shoots an arrow that binds Brie up with rope to a pillar.)
Oliver: "Never will. Hey. Are you hurt?"
Felicity: "I'm okay."
Thea: "Hey! Behind you!"
(Bee-man knocks Oliver to the ground. Cut to Arrow Bunker.)
Curtis (over comms): "There you go. Team Arrow, which I am now a member of - pinch me - I need a few more minutes to hack this latest firewall. The bees adapted."
(Cut to office. Oliver shoots arrow past Bee-man and into wall.)
Brie: "I thought you were a better shot."
(Bee-man knocks Thea to the ground. Arrow in wall turns green and emits sound.  Bee-man starts to fall apart, but re-forms.  Oliver fights him while Felicity goes over to check on Thea.  Cut to Arrow Bunker.)
Quentin: "Come on. Come on, come on, come on, come on."
Curtis: "Gotcha!"
Quentin: "Nice!"
(They spot a bee in the Arrow Bunker, and both start running from the bee around the Arrow Bunker.  Cut to office where Bee-man knocks Oliver down.  Brie escapes her bonds and leaves.  Felicity grabs a lighted lamp and knocks it over Bee-man. Then she breaks the lamp shade and uses the open end to electrocute Bee-man, causing him to disintegrate. Back in the Arrow Bunker, Quentin and Curtis are still running from the bee until Quentin uses a metal tea kettle to smash the bee onto the table.)
Curtis: "Eww!"
Quentin: "Don't worry. I won't tell anyone you screamed."
Curtis: "Oh, right!"
(Cut to office where Felicity helps Oliver get up.)
Felicity: "Thank you."
Oliver: "You never, never have to thank me."
(Brie enters and shoots Oliver.)
Oliver: "Argh!"
Brie: "If I can't walk, you can't live. Who should I kill first, 'A' (Points gun at Felicity) or 'Bee' (Points gun at Thea)?"
(Bees start swarming toward Brie.)
Curtis (voice from bee): "Guess who's back in control. It's me, Curtis, in case you guys don't recognize my voice yet."
Brie: "Uh. Unh! No, no!"
(Bees knock Brie to the ground.)
Felicity: "Ha ha! Lay down, 'Bee-yotch'! (Oliver looks at her) Too on the nose?"

417 (Beacon of Hope) – Felicity tells Thea that she's not coming back to the team and that she plans to use tech to turn Palmer Tech into a beacon of hope:
(Felicity and Thea are straightening up the office.)
Felicity: "Ahh. Maybe I should burn some incense in here or something."
Thea: "Yeah. That's probably a very good idea."
Felicity: "Remind me to never wear black and yellow... ever again."
Thea: "Wait. Where'd your mom go?"
Felicity: "Oh! Captain Lance drove her home."
Thea; "Yeah. That is something I'll never be able to wrap my brain around."
Felicity: "Eh, it's kind of cute."
Thea: "Don't you miss this? I mean, I know you said that you wanted to get away from it all, but how could you?"
Felicity: "What do you mean?"
Thea: "This. The - the thrill of this, the rush. I mean, we just took down a bad 'Bee-yotch' tonight. It doesn't get any better than this."
Felicity: "I was never in it for that. Not ever. I wanted to make a difference. Be a part of that beacon of hope you speak of."
Thea: "So come back. Rejoin the team."
Felicity: "I think I figured out another way. It was actually that insane bee lady who gave me the idea, ironically... to remake this company.  To use the technology that helped me walk again to make people's lives better. To make Palmer Tech into the beacon of hope."

Edited February 28, 2020 by tv echo