S04.E16: Broken Hearts

[Soulfire]

More GIFY GIFS!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I want you to keep it for good this time. Please."

 

LOL --

 

[AyChihuahua]

I love that Felicity left.

 

Because now I feel like this interminable narrative is giving me something I can work with. There has to be change *in Oliver* -- and his mere promises that he'll never lie again aren't enough -- and there had to be a big character beat to jumpstart his brain into realizing he needs to CHOOSE not to be alone. And this is it. This is the last thing that needed to happen so that Oliver can become a real boy.

Exactly. I've said for awhile that he can't just consider it a break, bc if he knows she'll come back, but it'll just take a little while longer, he won't learn. He has to truly believe he has lost her, as a direct consequence of his actions. Knowing he really could lose her is the only way he won't pull this shit again.

[Lantern7]

"On next week's Arrow . . . John and Thea call Oliver a schmuck. FOR THE ENTIRE EPISODE."

 

The boy's heart was in the right place, but his decision-making skills still need work. Not only is he out one son, he also lost Felicity. You think he would've told her about William if he knew this was going to happen? What a putz.

 

No wonder Dark didn't say a word . . . he was hiding what is no doubt a power ring. And I'm guessing his mouth was the most logical place to keep it without getting the network into trouble.

 

Still going "whatever" to the flashbacks. I'm kindasorta hoping we'd see Flash zip in, realize he's on the wrong show at the wrong time, and zip back out.

 

Now I feel bad that I deleted the episode, because I missed "OLICITY." Probably for the best . . . this was a dreary ep.

[kismet]

I don't usually talk about fandoms, but I almost want to, so I can get a

 

[Edited by mod because how part of the fandom might hypothetically react to a plot point is fan talk.]

because I think its cheeky and effective :)

[Carrie Ann]

I'm 100% willing to have Felicity "lose" this breakup and leave a mission that she invested so much into if it means actual narrative movement and character development *for Oliver*.

 

There's nothing for Felicity to learn here. She did nothing wrong. So if her leaving is less about her story and more about this stupidass storyline from hell to finally get to the third act and give me character development for Oliver? I'm in.

 

Ha, I actually feel the opposite! I was kind of relieved by the end of the episode because her leaving the team and becoming so cynical about love signaled to me a character development arc for Felicity in this last third of the season. I don't think she did anything "wrong," but I do think that we're not supposed to want Felicity to not believe in love anymore, and to not believe she can be a part of the team anymore. And yes, Oliver will have to do something(s) to address some of her concerns, but she is going to have to come around on those things on her own, too.

 

When Oliver left last summer, he put his own mental health before the city because he needed to get better before he could really be a hero again.  I think this is Felicity's turn to put her own mental health first before the city to heal.  Working with a on team where it is encouraged to have a fake wedding against her wishes post breakup, no one is on her side.  She needs to take a step away from an unhealthy situation to be better.  It is not a good working environment for anyone.  If she continued like this, her head would not in the game which means she cannot protect the team properly.  She needs space to piece herself back together.

 

I agree. Prior to 415, I was not on board with the idea of Felicity quitting the team, but I got on board that episode, and that position was cemented for me in this one. I'm still not 100% sold on it being the MOST in-character thing for her to do, but I'm very satisfied with it from a narrative perspective because they provided enough motivation here to convince me. The team was basically indifferent to *her* situation, and she was, uh, pretty poisonous toward Oliver. I'm glad she removed herself from that situation, and I hope it doesn't last too long. :)

[AyChihuahua]

I thought it was good.  Though I wasn't a fan of Felicity's snark either or her decision to leave the team.

 

Question...Arrow has always been bad when it comes to the law.  And economics.  Anyway, is it safe to say that Laurel couldn't use a witness who was a) her father and b) gave testimony that Dhark had threatened her?  It's a clear conflict of interest.  Not that that has ever stopped Arrow before.  Like when they had Laurel prosecuting Moira.

 

Thea reading celebrity gossip amused me.

 

That was inexplicably dumb of Lyla given Cupid's track record.

Re Laurel and her dad as witness...it's unclear whether this was state or federal court. It SHOULD be state, bc Laurel is a local prosecutor, but the court seal said US District Court, meaning federal. The reason it matters is that there are different rules for each...federal is obviously fairly uniform, states have lots of different rules. As a GENERAL rule, though, she wouldn't be automatically disqualified from using her father as a witness. She couldn't herself be a witness, but it's more that, in most cases, she could examine him, and the jury/judge could decide how much value to attach to his answers. Kind of like when she was the prosecutor v. Moira. Now that's rules of evidence...there are also ethics rules, which also vary by state. Some states may say no, some states would require her/the judge to boot her.

 

The biggest issues are witnesses testifying to prior bad acts (NO!) and a local prosecutor prosecuting a federal case (NO!).

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

I don't usually talk about fandoms, but I almost want to, so I can get a

because I think its cheeky and effective :)

 

Stay strong!  Self moderation is next to godliness!  :) 

[Morena]

[jay741982]

I just watched the Final Olicity scene! I'm heartbroken! Love these two so much! EBR and SA Slay every scene and the Preview for Next Week? Beth Greene looks Deliciously Demented! Bring that shit on!!

Edited March 24, 2016 by jay741982

[dtissagirl]

Exactly. I've said for awhile that he can't just consider it a break, bc if he knows she'll come back, but it'll just take a little while longer, he won't learn. He has to truly believe he has lost her, as a direct consequence of his actions. Knowing he really could lose her is the only way he won't pull this shit again.

 

Yep. I can't even bring myself to be mad a Dig for that lame "give her time, she'll come around" crap because he was so hilariously wrong about it. And because that was what Oliver was thinking too -- if he gave her time, she'd come around. Naw, son.

 

And now he's gonna have to pull a Pacey and buy her a wall.

[calliope1975]

"I want you to keep it for good this time. Please."

 

LOL --

 

 

So, Felicity's going to propose next, right? Right?? /sobs

[Guest]

Arrow is still trending on twitter. Good sign?

[lemotomato]

More GIFY GIFS!

 

Thank you so much for the gifs, Soulfire! Helps make the 2 hour wait for the episode bearable. 

[blixie]

 

I'm still not 100% sold on it being the MOST in-character thing for her to do

I thought her reasoning sounded like contrivance, (he made this decision because of the Island? Nah hon this is Butthead Oliver pre Island bullshit) but the whole point of characters *growing* is that they hopefully do things informed by the plots they've been put through, so I can buy that she knows continuing to work with the team is not good for her and super not good for Oliver to learn a g-d thing. To be deprived of her utterly is the only thing that will wake him the fuck up, to get away from Oliver is the only way to get a handle on what she really feels and needs. A small television audience hopes. 

[Primal Slayer]

It was an ok episode but Cupid/Olicity should not have been the A-plot imo. We've spent all season with TA going up against Dhark and when they finally one up him they shove it to the background when it should've been the A-plot.

[catrox14]

Oh Oliver...you big dumb in love idiot. 

 

I didn't like Felicity going back to Oliver being on the island for why he can't ever change.

 

I feel like that was kind of out of left field...and kind of an unnecessary cheap shot. 

 

I mean Oliver can't help that he got stuck on that island which fucked him up and gave him PTSD.  I really wish the writers had not gone there :(

 

She could have just said...."I don't trust you to not lie to me" I think that was sufficient. 

[apinknightmare]

It was an ok episode but Cupid/Olicity should not have been the A-plot imo. We've spent all season with TA going up against Dhark and when they finally one up him they shove it to the background when it should've been the A-plot.

 

With lawyering like that, I'm glad it wasn't the A plot. If they had written Laurel as remotely competent (WHY, SHOW. WHY), then I would've really liked that.

[kismet]

Well that episode broke my heart. I never thought I'd cry at wedding vows because of sadliness.... EBR & SA hit those scenes out of the park. But yes, consider my heart broken.... The "I'm already gone" was the final blow for the emotional knockout.

 

As for FS leaving the team, I know she will be back, and I think it is a healthy step all things considered. And to quote her, I think she was "already gone" anyway.

 

I will say I did like these new writers. Overall I thought the episode was tight. I loved Carrie's crazy. Olicity's angst was genuine and heartbreaking. Thea & Dig made a great in the field duo. Quentin was amazing in that courtroom scene whether or not it made any sense to have it happen in the first place. I also thought the action sequences were enjoyable tonight.

 

Oh and the flashbacks were great breaks to refill my glass. I will say that boring fbs is a pretty efficient technique to break awkward tension.

[AyChihuahua]

Yep. I can't even bring myself to be mad a Dig for that lame "give her time, she'll come around" crap because he was so hilariously wrong about it. And because that was what Oliver was thinking too -- if he gave her time, she'd come around. Naw, son.

 

And now he's gonna have to pull a Pacey and buy her a wall.

I'm honestly down with it. I NEEDED a breakup, and I NEEDED him to believe it was permanent. I don't need it actually to be permanent, but I need him to think it is. He was okay with Digg taking months to forgive him...that didn't teach him not to lie. He has to believe it's permanent. That belief can last a day or a month, I don't care, he just needs to believe it to learn.

 

TBC this is putting aside the fact that I personally do not believe a 30-year-old non-brain damaged man should have to stick his face in a hornets' nest numerous times to learn not to stick his face in a hornets' nest, but hey, that's Oliver's thing.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I guess that proves that Cupid isn't dead, but why weren't they hauling her away on a stretcher -- she had just been shot.

I still find it weird that the Star City news media refer to them as Olicity.

[apinknightmare]

I guess that proves that Cupid isn't dead, but why weren't they hauling her away on a stretcher -- she had just been shot.

 

Oliver shot her with a tranquilizer.

[NumberCruncher]

I guess that proves that Cupid isn't dead, but why weren't they hauling her away on a stretcher -- she had just been shot.

I still find it weird that the Star City news media refer to them as Olicity.

Cupid was shot by a tranq gun so she wasn't technically injured, but yeah, it's a bit stupid that she's up and walking around mere minutes after.

The Olicity thing isn't all that weird considering Thea spent the entire episode shoving together celebrity names when talking about famous weddings on her gossip site.

[Guest]

I want to know what made ARGUS think it was okay to release the crazy psychopath? I'd rather Cupid had escaped or something. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Guest

[dtissagirl]

Ha, I actually feel the opposite! I was kind of relieved by the end of the episode because her leaving the team and becoming so cynical about love signaled to me a character development arc for Felicity in this last third of the season. I don't think she did anything "wrong," but I do think that we're not supposed to want Felicity to not believe in love anymore, and to not believe she can be a part of the team anymore. And yes, Oliver will have to do something(s) to address some of her concerns, but she is going to have to come around on those things on her own, too.

 

I need a rewatch or seventeen, but I didn't get the impression that Felicity doesn't believe in love anymore -- I thought she believed in everything she said to Cupid, even.

 

I left this episode thinking Felicity feels like she got the "love is not enough" reality check. She loves Oliver, but she is so disillusioned in him she can't even be around him... which goes well with him now having to show her through his actions he'll never lie again.

[Soulfire]

Thank you so much for the gifs, Soulfire! Helps make the 2 hour wait for the episode bearable. 

 

You're very welcome. :) My (pain tonight) pleasure.

[apinknightmare]

I want to know what made ARGUS think it was okay to release the crazy psychopath? I'd rather Cupid had escaped or something. 

 

Hopefully this was a Waller decision and not a Lyla Michaels decision. 

[Delphi]

TBC this is putting aside the fact that I personally do not believe a 30-year-old non-brain damaged man should have to stick his face in a hornets' nest numerous times to learn not to stick his face in a hornets' nest, but hey, that's Oliver's thing.

That's next week actually.

[apinknightmare]

I left this episode thinking Felicity feels like she got the "love is not enough" reality check. She loves Oliver, but she is so disillusioned in him she can't even be around him... which goes well with him now having to show her through his actions he'll never lie again.

 

How does he do that, though? The only way I can think of is for someone to give him another ultimatum, and for him to decide to tell her. Otherwise, he's pretty much been not lying to her for a long time (apart from the kid lie, which she said she understood his reasoning for) - like... he'd just continue on as he had been for the past however many months they've been together.

Edited March 24, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Guest]

I have to say, I'm glad the trial wasn't the A plot because I thought the court scenes were pretty boring until Quentin took the stand. It could have been different if they'd written it better. I just don't understand how they repeatedly fail the law/lawyer stuff when MG is a lawyer. Forever baffled!

 

 

Hopefully this was a Waller decision and not a Lyla Michaels decision. 

 

Haha yes. Let's just blame Waller anyway!

[popgoesculture]

 

I'm glad she broke it off for good, but I was a little confused with her speech at the end. I was with her until she started talking about how the vigilante stuff factored in. Was she saying that him being the Arrow meant he'd always "go it alone" and that's why they couldn't be together? Cause that feels like it came out of nowhere and also makes no sense. Him lying had nothing to do with Arrow stuff.

I agree.. the ending was convoluted. Overall, I think EBR was the most effective in selling her heartbreak over leaving Oliver and her own resolve, and my favorite scene was between her and Cupid. But not even she could save the odd twist in logic at the end... like I agree, Oliver's not a team player. That's the big issue. But it's not necessarily him being a vigilante... it's just HIM and his need to always do his own thing and not think of including others (like all of Season 3). So I was annoyed the writers brought the vigilante aspect into it (although him leaving Diggle to.... watch Speedy? was a great example of how ridiculous that is).

 

That said, I don't know if it's left over from last ep or what, but I was having an issue with connecting with SA's performance. There were moments that were excellent -- his acknowledgment that he was reluctant to cancel the venue -- but some of it seemed so... flat? And the whole team, particularly Digg, siding with Oliver and making it seem like Felicity's mistrust will "blow over" was ridiculous. How can Digg NOT be on Felicity's side? This is basically an extension of Oliver keeping everything from them in regards to Malcolm last season.

 

Also, I literally laughed out loud during the flashback where Baron shot the other dude... there was a beat before he did it, and then a big pause in everyone's reactions. It was hilarious because it was so stilted and poorly done. 

[AyChihuahua]

That's next week actually.

Ha! To be fair to Oliver, being attacked by nanohornets directed by an evil psychopath doesn't count. It's just when he voluntarily walks up to a known hornets' nest and goes "Derr, I wonder what'd happen if I stuck my face in here?" SEVERAL times, that I really get annoyed by him. His learning process is, shall we say, different than mine.

That said, I don't know if it's left over from last ep or what, but I was having an issue with connecting with SA's performance. There were moments that were excellent -- his acknowledgment that he was reluctant to cancel the venue -- but some of it seemed so... flat? 

I thought SA was pretty flat, too. Would like to know if intentional or he's just physically tired. I think he was a bit flat around the same time last season. He needs to get more rest.

[dtissagirl]

How does he do that, though? The only way I can think of is for someone to give him another ultimatum, and for him to decide to tell her. Otherwise, he's pretty much been not lying to her for a long time (apart from the kid lie, which she said she understood his reasoning for) - like... he'd just continue on as he had been for the past however many months they've been together.

 

I don't know exactly, but I'm assuming [which could be my mistake here] that Oliver will have to do something to show Felicity that he's choosing not to do something alone. Maybe it's related to the death, and him having to kill "him", and he'll ask for her help. Or maybe it's something more symbolic, like that idea that was floating around Tumblr that he's been writing about what happened in the five years of hell in the journal and he'll give it to Felicity.

 

But I figure this episode is setting up Oliver choosing to share something with Felicity that will prove her wrong, and she'll realize he's changed, makeout ensues.

[wonderwall]

I'm really really interested in seeing the ratings for this episode tomorrow... Hmm

[Guest]

Was that weird totem in the flashbacks the same one that Damien had? You know, the one that Vixen destroyed?

[foreverevolving]

That was a pretty good episode!

Either it was really a good episode or the 4 month hiatus softened my heart to the show faults.

But I also like Cupid so I was find with her being the A plot while Laurel was kind of the B plot.

 

Also, I found the fighting scenes with just Oliver, Diggle and Thea much better and more enjoyable without Laurel in them!

 

 

Everything has already been said so.. I'm glad Felicity walked away! this time with Oliver truly understanding this is not going to be fixed easily.

I really don't want to get back together by the end of the episode.. I want them to sort of make up by the end of the season and than spend the entire summer having hot passionate sex as "friends with benefits" thinking that was all they were now, while Oliver finally learns to behave like a grown man who trusts the woman he loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with.. and than I want them to figure they were fooling themselves and for Felicity to realize Oliver has grown up after he spend an entire summer proving it to her.. and so we'll get the first few episodes of S05 seeing them lying to the team, than being exposed, and than deciding to have a quick wedding... what can I say I'm a sucker for secret affairs when the couple are actually in love :-P

[InsertWordHere]

I love Felicity but this is the second time this season she's left the team. Slow your role girl

It wouldn't bother me if she hadn't also been secretly working with the team and convinced Oliver to go back to the team in this same season. Too much back and forth. I doubt anyone besides Oliver actually thinks she's off the team for good. 

[apinknightmare]

I don't know exactly, but I'm assuming [which could be my mistake here] that Oliver will have to do something to show Felicity that he's choosing not to do something alone. Maybe it's related to the death, and him having to kill "him", and he'll ask for her help. Or maybe it's something more symbolic, like that idea that was floating around Tumblr that he's been writing about what happened in the five years of hell in the journal and he'll give it to Felicity.

 

But I figure this episode is setting up Oliver choosing to share something with Felicity that will prove her wrong, and she'll realize he's changed, makeout ensues.

 

I think it'll be interesting, because he's generally been pretty good about sharing with her when they're on good terms, all things considered. He moves at a snail's pace, but he's opened up to her about the island, about things he's afraid of. So really doing those things shouldn't sway her, because he's done them before. We'll see. Hopefully it comes up soon! I'm interested in the ensuing makeout! 

[Delphi]

Incidentally, I worked late and missed the first ten minutes, did I miss anything standout great in dialogue?

[dtissagirl]

I think it'll be interesting, because he's generally been pretty good about sharing with her when they're on good terms, all things considered. He moves at a snail's pace, but he's opened up to her about the island, about things he's afraid of. So really doing those things shouldn't sway her, because he's done them before. We'll see. Hopefully it comes up soon! I'm interested in the ensuing makeout! 

 

This is fanwank, because the show hasn't addressed it well enough, but sending the kid away actually made the conflict here more interesting to me. The level of miscommunication between them is pretty ridiculous, because Oliver didn't get until now that he had it all wrong:

 

- Felicity thought Oliver was finally sharing all of his life with her, and then she felt utterly betrayed when she learned he was keeping something huge from her.

 

- Oliver, on the other hand, assumed that because Felicity has always understood how hard a time he has sharing things, that she would also be understanding of him keeping the kid a secret, once he solved the crazy problem with BM. Even in this episode, he was still pretty much waiting for Felicity to be understanding of him again, so they could get back together.

 

And that was Oliver's mistake -- he always thought this was fixable. But it turned out that for Felicity, it wasn't. So he's gonna have to figure out a way to fix it without her understanding.

Edited March 24, 2016 by dtissagirl

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm with @apinknightmare. I'm actually not sure how they're gonna show Oliver fixing things. I think he will, of course, I just don't know how they're gonna do it. 

 

I do agree that Felicity leaving the team will show Oliver that he's really lost her this time and that should push him to make some changes but what exactly? And I'm not sure if I trust the writers to execute it well and not rush it at the last minute.

[apinknightmare]

And that was Oliver's mistake -- he always thought this was fixable. But it turned out that for Felicity, it wasn't. So he's gonna have to figure out a way to fix it without her understanding.

 

I totally get the reasoning and the room for growth, I just don't quite get what exactly it is he can do to prove he's changed. Throughout the course of their relationship, seems like he'd been pretty open with his thoughts/feelings/concerns. He only hid the BM/kid stuff. How do you prove you're not hiding things? Seems like he'd have to be given some kind of an ultimatum, and go to her with it this time. I just don't see how he could offer up a change in behavior, because apart from everything with the kid, he's been behaving just like she wants him to.

[dtissagirl]

Oh, it's gonna be super rushed. Which is why I'm leaning towards some sort of grand gesture, because that's a couple of scenes, tops.

[johntfs]

 

This is the song in Oliver's head right now.

[kismet]

I gotta say... I agree with those that are not sure how they are going to fix it, I know they will. But still it will be interesting.

 

I thought it was a low blow for her to link it back to the island & vigilante life. However, in all actuality OQ's tendency to withhold information and turn inward as opposed to outward has always been a part of who he is and how he processes information before he ever got on the Gambit. So yeah, they will find a way to fix it but it's going to be a major change in OQ's modus operandi. Which hopefully will be the end of the writers being able to make OQ dumb so they can write their dumb plots. Because once he learns how to open up and include FS in his life, it won't be that easy for the writers to just change him to fit their plot.

 

It also links back to Dig's comments that OQ does not know how to love, which I thought was a low blow in 401. But if having OQ grow up and learn how to fully love was part of their agenda in s4, then it makes sense that even if it was really cruel they would lay the groundwork for their mission in 401. And having Dig who has always been his mentor be the one to drop the line makes sense.

[EmeraldArcher]

It wouldn't bother me if she hadn't also been secretly working with the team and convinced Oliver to go back to the team in this same season. Too much back and forth. I doubt anyone besides Oliver actually thinks she's off the team for good.

To me, it's completely different because she was happy and had gotten everything she thought she wanted. That's an entirely different place than where she is now; her heart is broken, her body has just miraculously healed from a horrific injury, and her team didn't back her up tonight. Even last year when she temporarily walked away after Oliver's "death," it was clear that she needed a break for her own mental health.

And really, Oliver has done the back and forth thing more than Felicity: (1) after Tommy's death, (2) in Nanda Parbat, and (3) after defeating RAG and driving off into the sunset with Felicity. Even when they returned to Star City, he still resisted resuming his mission, although the city clearly still needed saving.

I think it comes down to the fact that Felicity is human, and this is one of the truest human moments she's had so far. She's heartbroken, and I can't fault her for stepping back. How much more should she have to take? What would her remaining on the team look like right now? She has to focus on herself for now, and I'm glad that she knows it. I also thought her little monologue on packing gave insight to how she thinks now--it was from the perspective of someone really intelligent and mathematically minded AND who thinks about efficiency and a company's bottom line. I thought it was a great blend of Genius!Felicity and CEO!Felicity.

[Xenith22]

 

Oh and the flashbacks were great breaks to refill my glass. I will say that boring fbs is a pretty efficient technique to break awkward tension.

What I would not have given to watch the Star City police deal with the overly friendly giraffe on the loose in place of the island flashbacks...

Edited March 24, 2016 by Xenith22

[ottoDbusdriver]

What I would not have given to watch the Star City police deal with the overly friendly giraffe on the loose in place of the island flashbacks...

Hah !! Nice catch @Xenith22. I would also like to see that.

[kismet]

I would actually not mind if they just gave us the high points of the flashbacks and what we need to know about them in the ticker at the bottom of the screen. It would be like snow closings... :)

 

Or if they just jammed them all into a quick 60 sec highlight reel at the end or beginning of the episode.

Edited March 24, 2016 by kismet

[Scribbles]

I totally get the reasoning and the room for growth, I just don't quite get what exactly it is he can do to prove he's changed. Throughout the course of their relationship, seems like he'd been pretty open with his thoughts/feelings/concerns. He only hid the BM/kid stuff. How do you prove you're not hiding things? Seems like he'd have to be given some kind of an ultimatum, and go to her with it this time. I just don't see how he could offer up a change in behavior, because apart from everything with the kid, he's been behaving just like she wants him to.

So with you on this line of thinking.  However, I don't think the issue is hiding things or lying.,  By mid-415 it was clear Felicity got that he was in a no win position with the lie.  The issue is the "being a true partner". 

 

Here is where I split ways with many on this forum....deep breath...the man she met and fell in love with was broken.  He has come a long way.  She is within her rights to stand firm and insist he go all the way to ideal, or she can take a leap of faith that he will keep trying.  Oliver will have to keep growing, but Felicity will have to decide whether she wants to be on the journey with him or wait until he is all fixed.  The danger in waiting is that he could die before he gets the chance.  Felicity is going to have to decide if she believes in him and herself enough to bet on the direction he is heading.  Meanwhile he has to keep heading in said direction.  Would she rather live with him or without him?

[InsertWordHere]

And really, Oliver has done the back and forth thing more than Felicity: (1) after Tommy's death, (2) in Nanda Parbat, and (3) after defeating RAG and driving off into the sunset with Felicity. Even when they returned to Star City, he still resisted resuming his mission, although the city clearly still needed saving.

I was simply stating that they've had her come and go a lot this season and it starts to lose its punch and its effectiveness to the story after a while. I didn't bring up Oliver walking away in the past, because I consider them both to be kind of flip-floppy regarding the mission for very good reasons and also because I like both of them so I'm not pitting them against each other. That said, this is vigilantism, not a contracted career, so I think everyone's free to come and go as they please and they shouldn't be made to feel like they're abandoning the team when they do so. Starling City sucks at saving itself and if I were on the team I probably would have walked away a long time ago.