S04.E02: Pastor Tim

[Umbelina]

Not to that particular pilot in that particular condition. That guy looked like he was about to break down and attract attention (which he did). If I'm Philip and want the tin to get to the lab, I am not giving it to that courier.

I agree with this.  I think Philip just wanted it GONE, and if it had been a less dangerous hand off (say, written missile diagrams), he would have aborted, but he personally didn't give a shit about the mission, he just wanted that thing away from him and from his family.  He wasn't thinking like a spy, he was thinking like a dad, husband, and person.

 

I wanted Philip to leave that tin on Gabriel's table, and not pick it up.  I wonder what would have happened if he had just left it there and walked out.

I do too.  The USSR was capable of quite of bit of damage though, and one common thing was making loved ones suffer back in Russia.  Does Phillip have any?  That's one reason I was surprised they told Elizabeth her mother was now officially dead.  It was something to hold over her (which is also why I think she could have been dead years ago, and they wouldn't tell her.)  Still, Philip has children, he has Martha, they would have a way to make him pay, but the Center NEEDS both of them, Martha for the fabulous intel she's supplying, and Henry and Paige as future spies.  Although Paige's days may already be numbered.  So how would they get to him if he defied them, AGAIN.  Remember he already did with that little jaunt to Germany, so if they thought him unstable, they could just take him out, and give Elizabeth a new partner.

 

They aren't playing tiddlywinks here.

 

Worst come to worst I wonder how one would go about safely destroying the glanders vial. Anyone know? Because frankly after that disaster of a hand-off and presumably more and more limited ways of getting it out of the country -- and, let's be honest, does anyone really want that stuff to end up in the hands of any government? Even if the Americans already have it? Because Russia is a chimp with a grenade at this point and they're giving the chimp a nuke. I wouldn't be surprised if Philip would be more eager to sabotage it if he wasn't so afraid of it -- I bet they could justify just getting rid of it.

If Philip had a chance it was probably the pilot.  Just destroy it, and say the pilot took it.  If that pilot has a brain in his head he'll be disappearing about now anyway, but again, he also probably has endangered family.  Also, when they caught him (and they will) he'd give Philip up and deny ever taking the vial, so it probably wouldn't work anyway.  Oh!  Philip could always pretend he didn't know the pilot left it though...again, risky, but maybe?  Play dumb about the pilot not taking it, destroy it.  Then again, they'd have him on truth serum so fast, and torture if needed, or threatening one of his kids with torture. 

 

Yeah, Philip is screwed, no matter what.

 

The biggest thing that bugged me about this episode was that no one noticed Philip's tussle with airport security.  Okay, I can buy that the girl was grooving to "Tainted Love" but there was an old man near the front of the bus that didn't bother turning around.  A parked nearly empty bus would've been shaking seriously if two fully grown men were wrestling inside it.  Not to mention the front window would've most likely reflected what was going on in the back.  Also, I'm surprised Philip went with killing the security guard while there were three witnesses near by (the girl, the old man and the bus driver).

It didn't really bother me.  Once you are in a front seat, you don't usually turn around to look at the back of the bus, and Philip was watching him the whole time, and most of the struggle was pretty much out of sight anyway.  The front window would have to be angled perfectly, and the guy in the front would have to be watching it.  People really are just not that observant generally, especially pre 9-11.

[Chaos Theory]

Yeah, it's a biotoxin. Destroying one of those is pretty easy, as long as it hasn't infected some other biological entity that you don't want to destroy.

Would a layman know that in the 1980s?

A lot of things we know now. Like a computer could make a very good spy tool but computers were rare in the 8os and I can see being handed one as being thought of as an extravagant gift.

[TimWil]

Elizabeth's nightmare made my heart stop for a second -- yikes!

Umbelina, I was ready to say, "You were right!" and I still might have to...

Don't forget about me, too, Redhawk! In last week's discussion I brought up the possiblity that the woman wasn't Elizabeth's real mother and you pooh-poohed it.

[Umbelina]

Yes, but did you say it during the season finale?  Ha!  Just kidding, glad to have company. 

 

ETA

I also meant to say that I LOVED how they showed just how important Martha's information is to the USSR right now.  To have her intel used to make a meet happen safely was brilliant.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Umbelina

[TimWil]

No, Umbelina, I think I only became suspicious after the bit in last week's season premiere when Elizabeth said she'd seemed "different."! I really do think she was a fake now.

Last week there was quite a Twitter argument going on between Tim Goodman of The Hollywood Reporter and other TV journalists. He tweeted how grating Paige was and that she was a real liability. After Wednesday's episode I must admit that Holly Taylor is very weak in the role but I'm not sure the actress herself should be blamed.

Edited March 25, 2016 by TimWil

[maczero]

I agree with this.  I think Philip just wanted it GONE, and if it had been a less dangerous hand off (say, written missile diagrams), he would have aborted, but he personally didn't give a shit about the mission, he just wanted that thing away from him and from his family.  He wasn't thinking like a spy, he was thinking like a dad, husband, and person.

 

I do too.  The USSR was capable of quite of bit of damage though, and one common thing was making loved ones suffer back in Russia.  Does Phillip have any?  That's one reason I was surprised they told Elizabeth her mother was now officially dead.  It was something to hold over her (which is also why I think she could have been dead years ago, and they wouldn't tell her.)  Still, Philip has children, he has Martha, they would have a way to make him pay, but the Center NEEDS both of them, Martha for the fabulous intel she's supplying, and Henry and Paige as future spies.  Although Paige's days may already be numbered.  So how would they get to him if he defied them, AGAIN.  Remember he already did with that little jaunt to Germany, so if they thought him unstable, they could just take him out, and give Elizabeth a new partner.

 

They aren't playing tiddlywinks here.

 

If Philip had a chance it was probably the pilot.  Just destroy it, and say the pilot took it.  If that pilot has a brain in his head he'll be disappearing about now anyway, but again, he also probably has endangered family.  Also, when they caught him (and they will) he'd give Philip up and deny ever taking the vial, so it probably wouldn't work anyway.  Oh!  Philip could always pretend he didn't know the pilot left it though...again, risky, but maybe?  Play dumb about the pilot not taking it, destroy it.  Then again, they'd have him on truth serum so fast, and torture if needed, or threatening one of his kids with torture. 

 

Yeah, Philip is screwed, no matter what.

 

It didn't really bother me.  Once you are in a front seat, you don't usually turn around to look at the back of the bus, and Philip was watching him the whole time, and most of the struggle was pretty much out of sight anyway.  The front window would have to be angled perfectly, and the guy in the front would have to be watching it.  People really are just not that observant generally, especially pre 9-11.

Seriously doubt anyone would not turn around during a fight on a bus.  And the bus was shaking enough that the average person would've turned around.  However, I did watch the scene again.  It seems that Philip did take stock of the situation before he acted.  The girl had on headphones, the old man appeared to be asleep and the bus driver was on a smoke break.  Still pretty risky but I guess you don't get in that line of work if you're not willing to take risks.

[Umbelina]

True.  More importantly though, what were Philips other options?  The guy had to be taken out. 

 

I suspend disbelief quite a bit on this show about all the violence, because frankly, the danger and action moments are just so well done.  In truth, someone as valuable as Philip probably rarely, if ever, killed anyone.  Lots of this stuff would be done by the Arkady's group, not carefully hidden spies, but regular spies, the ones who had diplomatic cover, but not this expensive and carefully crafted deeply embedded value.  They basically just seem to give it all, or most of it, to Philip and Elizabeth because they are our leads.

[sistermagpie]

I also meant to say that I LOVED how they showed just how important Martha's information is to the USSR right now.  To have her intel used to make a meet happen safely was brilliant.

 

 

Yeah, I've always been surprised when people for years have seemed to think Martha is just this lame duck useless thing that they keep around because Philip likes her and he's being stupid because she's just a liability at this point.

 

People were saying that even when she was helpfully bringing home classified files for Clark to pour through--and we saw him pouring through it. They thought the bug was her only use. And now I love that they've got her bringing surveillance reports that are so immediately helpful and important. Martha's a goldmine. There is no reason the KGB would be wanting to get rid of Martha and just holding off because of Philip. Pastor Tim would get that reaction from them but not Martha! 

[Dev F]

No, Umbelina, I think I only became suspicious after the bit in last week's season premiere when Elizabeth said she'd seemed "different."! I really do think she was a fake now.

 

Can someone provide an exact quote for this one? Because I swear I heard Elizabeth say something to this effect last week (though I chalked it up to Liz's roiling psychological issues rather than some double-secret secret double storyline), but as I look over the subtitles now I can only find an instance in which Elizabeth says that Paige has been different since they came back from Germany. I wonder whether the subtitles are wrong/incomplete or we all misheard.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Dev F

[sistermagpie]

, but as I look over the subtitles now I can only find an instance in which Elizabeth says that Paige has been different since they came back from Germany. I wonder whether the subtitles are wrong/incomplete or we all misheard.

 

 

This is the line I remember. Philip was asking her why she was so nervous because she said Paige had a great time or whatever and Elizabeth said she was "different now" which I took as her saying either that Paige seemed different in the days since or that Paige at this age was more complicated and Elizabeth didn't feel so sure of her as she once did. 

[lcarolynl]

 

That wouldn't make sense.  But then, Jared killing his parents didn't make sense either.  Other than that, though, this show has been better than that.

 

 

 

I disagree that it would be a narrative cheat. Just before Paige was introduced to the church group, Elizabeth and Philip had something unsettling going on (can't remember the episode but Elizabeth tidied the house and went outside and eyed the street workmen suspiciously. Someone from the center (sorry, I can't remember exact details) told either E or P that someone would watch over the kids. It was an aside but I remember wondering at the time if the girl on the bus was the person watching over the kids. That girl brought Paige to youth group, where she met Pastor Tim.

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Pastor Tim was grooming all of youth group to become KGB spies. No, but he's sheparding them through an impressionable age. They might grow into activists for social justice and who knows where that might lead? I think it would be a good idea. Get to know and influence American teens and keep a close eye on Paige at the same time.

I'm pretty new here, I'm really enjoying getting all these perspectives and thoughts on my favorite show!

[Cosmocrush]

I think Nina self sabotaged herself. She was sent to wherever the hell that place is to spy on and inform of the scientist guy and he gave her info namely that his research hit a brick wall. This was enough to get her out from under the KGB but instead she concocted a plan to get a message to the guys son that was certainly going to get found out. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that was her intention from the start. It looks like she made sure she was the only one clearly culpable. It also wouldn't surprise me if the guy who turned her in was KGB and everyone knew it. It would be an interesting development if this is where and how Nina's story finally ends.

I completely agree but I cannot figure out why?  Is she self punishing?  Or does she have another plan?   I'm finding her story very interesting. 

What job is it that the guy had that Philip offed? He's paid to watch over sketchy pilots? Is that an airport thing or an FAA thing?

His jacket said "Airport Security."  

 

Thanks for the all the info on using international flight crews as couriers - that makes perfect sense to me, especially for items that must be with someone at all times like a bio toxin. 

[sistermagpie]

Someone from the center (sorry, I can't remember exact details) told either E or P that someone would watch over the kids.

 

 

The Centre told Elizabeth and Philip that people were watching the kids after the Connors murders because they thought someone might be targeting all the families. Philip explained that they wouldn't see them--these would be people watching from a distance, not anyone who would walk up and talk to the kids or try to become their friend. Kelly on the bus talked to Paige about trouble with parents, and since she was a young Christian, she suggested Paige should come to the Youth Group. I think by the time Kelly took Paige to the group the watchers had been called off.

 

They might grow into activists for social justice and who knows where that might lead? I think it would be a good idea. Get to know and influence American teens and keep a close eye on Paige at the same time.

 

 

 

But he's also influencing those American teens to become Christians. He turned Paige from somebody with little interest in God to an avowed believer, which is against Soviet ideology--plus it's also giving her values that make her against spying. Like specific things that Pastor Tim has said seem in contrast to the things the Centre wants Paige to do. He's already suggested that if "people are getting hurt" they have a responsibility to stop her parents. His philosophy overlaps with P&E's just enough that the door isn't completely closed, but they're also seriously opposed on many issues. (Also I think he and Paige are separated from P&E by their shared experience of growing up in the US instead of the USSR.)

 

I think the narrative cheat comes from the idea that Pastor Tim has been set up as a deadly antagonist (even if he himself isn't violent) and him being KGB is basically saying: Just Kidding! Like he's been only pretending to be an antagonist all along and even when Philip and Elizabeth were literally planning to kill him he was just for some reason letting them think he was a threat. 

 

Really, the show never plays this "spy-gotcha" game (somebody used that term elsewhere and I love it). We know who the spies are. Some spies aren't outed right away, but in those cases there's immediately a question about them. Pastor Tim has been presented as one thing consistently since Day One. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

Speaking about the use of flight crews in various spy transporting things made me wonder...

 

So I googled "when did flight crews have to start going through security checks at airports?"

 

Turns out, in some cases at least?  They still don't.  Story dated 2015.

http://abc7news.com/travel/airline-employees-slip-through-security-loophole/717647/
 

OAKLAND, Calif. (KGO) --
A new government report is calling into question whether bomb detecting scanners and X-ray machines at the nation's airports are properly maintained. That's one concern, but there is another. Why are airline employees sidestepping the security equipment and walking right onto the planes? This is happening at all Bay Area airports.

At Oakland International Airport, while you wait to get your bags checked, flight crews line up at a door clearly marked do not enter. Security checks their badge and waves them through a locked door, never checking their bags.

 

obviously, much more at the link.

[Helena Dax]

Telling Paige was such a mistake... If the Center had sent someone to talk to her, to see what kind of person she is, they would have realized she would never want to be a spy for the Soviet Union. And this mistake could easily become the beginning of the end. Pastor Tim needs to be killed or turned and if I were the Center, I'd want him dead because it's the safe option. But killing him would put the Jennings in an imposible situation. 

 

Also, I don't think he works for the KGB because he would have told the Center the moment Paige told him about her parents. Like "hey, tell the Jennings there's no need to kill me". 

 

That old goat from Siberia didn't understand that Nina got free the moment she chose to do what she wanted to do, instead of what her jailers wanted her to do.

 

Philip/Elizabeth is one of the most fascinating relationships I've ever seen. Loved the scene where Philip told her about the kid he killed and her reaction to the EST stuff. Spock wouldn't have been more baffled, but at the same time, she could see 1)it was important to him and 2)he's hurting. That she wanted to go with him is a big deal for her, imo: season 1 Elizabeth would have reported him to the Center. She's starting to crack too. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by Helena Dax

[SlackerInc]

It's being discussed because it's been in both episodes, actually in the last 3 if you count last season's finale.  Each time Elizabeth seems to be, at the very least, distracted by it, and in some opinions, doubting it.  Anyway, sooner or later we will know.  Could the writers be dropping all of these breadcrumbs that lead no where?  Sure they could, but it doesn't seem like their style.

 

I really don't think it's been in any of those episodes.  However, I was equally certain about Jared not killing his parents, and I ended up obviously wrong about that.  I really hope they don't do something dumb like this again though.  And in this case they don't need to, whereas in S2 they did have to come up with someone as the killer.  So this would be an even more egregious unforced error and I would be willing to bet a lot of money there is nothing to it.

 

I don't want to keep bringing this up, but I don't see how it could possibly be a fake mom. Sure, Elizabeth hasn't seen her in 25 years, but people are still recognizable as they age. The wrinkles don't transform the basic facial features. It would really turn me off the show if that was the case - I saw the season two twist coming and I still wasn't pleased when it actually happened. 

 

I think Elizabeth bringing up med school or law school for Paige showed that she really has a different vision of what Paige's spy life will be like. She thinks Paige is going to have a job like William's, or work as an aide to some ranking DC official. She won't be strangling people on the back of a bus. Maybe the dream was about her suppressed doubts that Paige would lead a safer life.

 

Philip wasn't wearing a disguise when he met William because he knew that it was safe - he said they were getting reliable surveillance reports. So Martha's continued bringing him stuff, and Philip trusts that she isn't going to turn on him.

 

Agree with you on all counts.  And I'd add that it really wouldn't make any sense to waste Paige's value by having her do any "dirty work" at all.  So Elizabeth is right to be confident on that score.

 

Worst come to worst I wonder how one would go about safely destroying the glanders vial. Anyone know? Because frankly after that disaster of a hand-off and presumably more and more limited ways of getting it out of the country -- and, let's be honest, does anyone really want that stuff to end up in the hands of any government? Even if the Americans already have it? Because Russia is a chimp with a grenade at this point and they're giving the chimp a nuke. I wouldn't be surprised if Philip would be more eager to sabotage it if he wasn't so afraid of it -- I bet they could justify just getting rid of it.

 

Others said to just pour it into bleach, but personally I wouldn't want to take the chance that a little bit would get on my hands (or even gloves) etc.  I'd rather not even open it.  My preferred approach would be to stoke a really hot bonfire, and then throw the whole thing (tin and everything) right into the heart of it.

 

I disagree that it would be a narrative cheat. Just before Paige was introduced to the church group, Elizabeth and Philip had something unsettling going on (can't remember the episode but Elizabeth tidied the house and went outside and eyed the street workmen suspiciously. Someone from the center (sorry, I can't remember exact details) told either E or P that someone would watch over the kids. It was an aside but I remember wondering at the time if the girl on the bus was the person watching over the kids. That girl brought Paige to youth group, where she met Pastor Tim.

 

Yes, good point.  That girl really did seem like she was likely to be a KGB "watcher" (and I'm surprised they didn't keep her on as a character).  But Pastor Tim, I don't buy.

 

ETA: Helena, I agree that the Centre's original plan to tell Paige was a bad one.  But once Paige was completely freaking out and asking if they were aliens or what, all they had were bad options.  Do you think stonewalling her would have worked at that point?  I guess they could have said they were in the CIA.

Edited March 25, 2016 by SlackerInc

[Helena Dax]

Slackerinc, yes, lying to her would have been the smart thing to do, imo. Even a simple "yes, we're hiding something, but we can't tell you right now for your own good, just trust us" would have been better. Of course, since the Center wanted them to tell her the truth, those options were out of the table.

[jjj]

Even now, flight crews have minimal scrutiny of their luggage and pockets.

 

Did anyone think of "The Americans" a few days ago when they read about the flight attendant who tried to ditch 70 pounds of cocaine that was in her suitcase?  She was counting on not having her luggage screened, but was randomly selected for a screening -- and off she went, kicking off her high heels to make a getaway (which she did, and even flew on a flight the next day):  http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/stewardess-cocaine-case-back-california-37929823

 

I suspect employee luggage screening will get stepped as a result of this.  But even now, airlines are saying they do not have the resources to check all employees' luggage.  (This makes no sense to me, as the first class lines move very quickly.)  This also addresses the issue of lack of security checks for employees:  http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-arrested-flight-attendant-beauty-pageant-contestant-20160325-story.html -- also, picture of very cute drug-sniffing dog.  Who appears to be off duty. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by jjj

[Cosmocrush]

That old goat from Siberia didn't understand that Nina got free the moment she chose to do what she wanted to do, instead of what her jailers wanted her to do.

Ahhh, that makes sense.  I was thinking she sabotaged herself but maybe she was just letting go.  

[stagmania]

I've never gotten the impression that this show is particularly interested in shocking twists or sudden reveals that completely re-frame or change the narrative. I've always felt that on The Americans, character is king, and the family drama is far more important than the spy stories. I can't see them ever pulling a plot maneuver that undoes or renders moot significant character development like the kind Elizabeth has had as she's been processing her mother's illness, and now death. Similarly, I think Pastor Tim's place in the story is fairly straightforward, and don't expect them to pull the rug out from under Paige (and the audience) for the sake of an OMG moment. It's just not this show's way, and I'm more convinced of that than ever after listening to some of the great interviews the showrunners gave last week. 

 

In that same vein, I was so relieved to see Phillip fess up about EST this week, and Elizabeth do her best to understand why he liked going and even offer to attend with him. A lesser show would have him keep the secret beyond the point of plausibility, or have Elizabeth not take him at his word that Stan's assumption re: Sandra was ridiculous, or exaggerate their different perspectives to the point where she came across as mocking him and he closed himself off from her, but this show always chooses the more complex, nuanced path. It's a real pleasure to just watch it unfold and trust that wherever the story takes me, I'm in good hands.

[Umbelina]

I understand that.  I just don't see that it would pull any rugs out.  The title of the finale last year was, after all, "Everyone Lies."  *ETA NO IT WASN'T SEE BELOW*  I'd add, especially spies.  If they had a reason to lie about her mother, they would.  My only question is,  if they did, why?  (Personally I think there are a number of fascinating reasons they could have.)  Also, Elizabeth described her so very differently "you wouldn't like her."  She also didn't seem to know her, and since then has also dropped little clues that something was off, also the implied threat of Gabe's words right after he told her that her mother was dead seemed very odd to me.

 

We shall see if it plays into the Jennings' disenchantment with their current situation or not.  If my feeling is correct, it will tie in very well with whatever happens.

 

I too trust the writers, this is by far my favorite show currently on TV, I hope it stays on for a long time.

 

ETA

Sorry, the title of the PTV recap was "Everyone Lies" and I thought they used real episode titles here.  Oops.

Edited March 27, 2016 by Umbelina

[Chaos Theory]

Yeah, I've always been surprised when people for years have seemed to think Martha is just this lame duck useless thing that they keep around because Philip likes her and he's being stupid because she's just a liability at this point.

 

People were saying that even when she was helpfully bringing home classified files for Clark to pour through--and we saw him pouring through it. They thought the bug was her only use. And now I love that they've got her bringing surveillance reports that are so immediately helpful and important. Martha's a goldmine. There is no reason the KGB would be wanting to get rid of Martha and just holding off because of Philip. Pastor Tim would get that reaction from them but not Martha! 

 

Its always surprised me as well.  There has never been an upside to killing Martha.  The exact opposite in fact.  There is reason to keep her alive and happy and providing them with valuable information they just can't get anywhere else.  She gets them into the FBI building itself and gets files and information out.  Thats no small feet. 

[shura]

Remember he already did with that little jaunt to Germany, so if they thought him unstable, they could just take him out, and give Elizabeth a new partner.

 

"Paige, Henry, why are you staring at your father? He's a little under the weather, that's all... Oh, hi Stan! You want to see Henry's computer? What? Philip? Yeah, no, he's always looked like that..."

 

What? If we can have a fake mom, why wouldn't this work?

Edited March 26, 2016 by shura

[Umbelina]

"Paige, Henry, why are you staring at you father? He's a little under the weather, that's all... Oh, hi Stan! You want to see Henry's computer? What? Philip? Yeah, no, he's always looked like that..."

 

What? If we can have a fake mom, why wouldn't this work?

Ha!  Her long lost brother of course!   They've already had a fake aunt. 

 

I didn't mean a new husband, I meant a new partner.  Besides that, we were talking about ways Philip might have been able to avoid picking up and keeping the toxin, and I was pointing out that Philip's already on shaky ground with the KGB, so no, he couldn't have just refused Gabriel's orders. 

Edited March 26, 2016 by Umbelina

[sistermagpie]

Slackerinc, yes, lying to her would have been the smart thing to do, imo. Even a simple "yes, we're hiding something, but we can't tell you right now for your own good, just trust us" would have been better. Of course, since the Center wanted them to tell her the truth, those options were out of the table.

 

 

In that moment I think they were definitely supposed to be acting only as parents, not as spies. Paige made it clear that her knowing they were lying and them not telling her the truth was a betrayal of their relationship. From her pov (which is, let's face it, always pretty self-centered) the lying was not something they could do if they had any respect or love for her as a person. That's why they decided to tell the truth. Telling her they were CIA would push the lie down the line and make it worse, because they'd have faked their own true moment.

 

Of course, telling her that there was something they couldn't tell her would at least have been honest, and they might have at least warned her that this was a deadly secret or whatever, but I completely bought their having a mutual understanding that as parents the most truest way to show their feelings in that moment was to give her what she asked for and nothing less. Either they went forward with their relationship with this step, or they cut themselves off from her in a profound way forever and neither of them could do that.

 

In that same vein, I was so relieved to see Phillip fess up about EST this week, and Elizabeth do her best to understand why he liked going and even offer to attend with him.

 

 

Oh god, yes. And I wasn't surprised by it because this show never drags out things that way. Of course there are some revelations that took a while - Martha knowing, Stan knowing etc. But generally, especially in the marriage, they don't create conflicts that way or make you frustrated. Like last week it was frustrating watching Philip not talk to Elizabeth because it was obviously the right thing to do for him, but I wasn't worried about how his sitting on the info was going to lead to Three's Company-type misunderstandings.

 

In fact, they sort of turned that on its head with both the Philip/Stan fight, where the innocent misunderstanding is still serious (Stan's still angry about the real explanation) and the Paige one, where Paige not knowing her mother knows what she did is undercut by Paige confessing--thus cutting off the bigger bad-idea plan that was brewing with Elizabeth.

 

It's a bit like they did last year with the Mischa Jr. revelation. Philip starts to tell Elizabeth about it right away, but her immediate defense of Gabriel puts him off. But then the very next week, both of them pull back from the fight they were having. Elizabeth can apologize because she realizes she wasn't right and Philip knows he's wrong to keep this from her.

Edited March 26, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Dev F]

I understand that.  I just don't see that it would pull any rugs out.  The title of the finale last year was, after all, "Everyone Lies."

 

Actually, the season 3 finale was titled "March 8, 1983," after the date of President Reagan's famous "Evil Empire" speech. And I'd argue that, in keeping with that reference, it was more about people finally putting all their cards on the table ("I feel like shit all the time") than about how everyone lies. (Of course, "Everybody lies" is something Elizabeth tells Paige at one point in the hour, but she goes on to say that what's really important is that "we're telling each other the truth now." And Paige herself rather catastrophically rejects Elizabeth's assurances by the end of the episode, choosing to put all her cards on the table with Pastor Tim instead.)

Edited March 26, 2016 by Dev F

[misstwpherecool]

Something off this epi. I thought Philip and Stan micro stare down didn't serve a purpose nor did Philips extended version killing of the bus guy. If Philip is that tired of killing yet he is able to strangle someone to death why is he killing again. The first epi emphasized the toys he found at the tech guys house when he killed him which troubled him. Speaking of which they never showed the meeting with his family and lawyers.

[Cosmocrush]

I've always felt that on The Americans, character is king, and the family drama is far more important than the spy stories.

I agree.  I remember reading something by the show's creators S1 where they said this show was basically about a marriage.  Phillip and Elisabeth's marriage is at the heart of the show and for three seasons I've been watching with that perspective in mind and it makes sense.

 

ETA:  Nevermind.  I just read some of the links in the media thread and this isn't news - the showrunners are still saying it.   Sorry.   

Edited March 26, 2016 by Cosmocrush

[DrSpaceman73]

I don't think Elizabeth's mom was fake, though I doubt she expressed love for her daughter on her deathbed.

I also don't think the pastor is a KGB agent.

I did find it a bit unbelievable that Phillip could kill that guy and no one would notice, on a bus, even at the back at night with only a few people on it. I thought at least the driver might notice something. And I thought he overreacted in his response by killing the guy. He half heartedly tried to feed him a story, the security guy wasn't necessarily going to figure it all out, could have just found a way to get the box back and abort the mission if his questioning or the pilot broke down, he had more time and could have waited to take such drastic measures. This way someone is obviously going to investigate and be looking into things even if the guy was not found right away.

I was surprised Phillip didn't tell Gabriel they want a new handler. I would have told him off right there if I were Phillip. I am sure if it were not for Elizabeth he would have. Came out of retirement for this......so what, Phillip didn't ask for that

"And on a completely unrelated note, please accept this computer on behalf of the KGB. And please don't think about it or read anything into it about how we are likely using it to spy on you and your family, it's JUST A GIFT!!! Nothing underhanded, you can trust me. It's the finest in Russian technology from Trojan Horse electronics. It has a new thing called a camcorder built in"

Have to admit I don't care much about Niña's story.

Interesting the different reactions from Henry's parents and then Stan about his cologne.

"Paige, Henry, why are you staring at your father? He's a little under the weather, that's all... Oh, hi Stan! You want to see Henry's computer? What? Philip? Yeah, no, he's always looked like that..."

 

What? If we can have a fake mom, why wouldn't this work?

It worked on Bewitched.

[Blakeston]

This was the dialogue Gabriel and Elizabeth had about her mother dying:

Gabriel: Elizabeth, your mother died. We had someone with her - she wasn't alone. She spoke of you and Paige. She wanted to send a message that she loved you.

Elizabeth: Did she?

Gabriel: What do you mean?

Elizabeth: (pauses) Did she really say that?

Gabriel: Of course she did.

I think the writers must have worded it that way to give Elizabeth's "Did she?" some ambiguity.

On some level, she was questioning whether her mother, who sent her off permanently to be a spy, truly loved her. But she was also questioning whether her stoic mother would actually insist on sending a love message.

I don't think Elizabeth was questioning whether the woman she saw in Germany was her real mother - because that woman wouldn't have sent a message of love, either. The woman in Germany had the personality she remembered, but the message didn't match that personality, which makes her think the message is fake.

 

Can someone provide an exact quote for this one? Because I swear I heard Elizabeth say something to this effect last week (though I chalked it up to Liz's roiling psychological issues rather than some double-secret secret double storyline), but as I look over the subtitles now I can only find an instance in which Elizabeth says that Paige has been different since they came back from Germany. I wonder whether the subtitles are wrong/incomplete or we all misheard.

 

They said this about the Pastor Tim situation:

 

Elizabeth: I just keep picturing her walking in there and spitting the whole thing out.

Philip: I thought everything was good in Germany.

Elizabeth: It was, but she's....complicated. She's just...so...

Philip: What?

Elizabeth: Different.

So Elizabeth was saying that Paige is different, not her mother.

 

I admit I actually laughed through the bus killing. It was just like a farce with the whole bus looking the other way while this guy's getting choked out behind them. It was like something out of airplane.

 

You mean like when the little girl is choking, and no one notices because the nun is playing the guitar? Yeah, that sounds about right!

Edited March 26, 2016 by Blakeston

[La Tortuga]

"And on a completely unrelated note, please accept this computer on behalf of the KGB. And please don't think about it or read anything into it about how we are likely using it to spy on you and your family, it's JUST A GIFT!!! Nothing underhanded, you can trust me. It's the finest in Russian technology from Trojan Horse electronics. It has a new thing called a camcorder built in"

 

You're thinking of modern computers. I don't recall personal computers in the 1980s having cameras, and even if this one did, they didn't have wireless or broadband internet that just stayed on all the time. The modem was a special phone cradle where you set down your house-phone's handset and it made a lot of noise--not something you could do covertly, especially in a house with only one telephone line. Hell, Philip just barely stole info on the Arpa-net like one or two seasons ago. It hasn't progressed so quickly at this point in the show that governments are using a fully realized World Wide Web to spy on people.

[sistermagpie]

And I'd argue that, in keeping with that reference, it was more about people finally putting all their cards on the table ("I feel like shit all the time") than about how everyone lies.

 

 

I think that's actually what's going on with the mom too. Elizabeth's mother has been a figure she only hears through tapes and imagines or remembers. Philip thought it was important that they actually see each other in the flesh before she died (not for that reason, but that was the result). I think that meeting has started Elizabeth thinking about her in ways she just hadn't before, the way people often do when confronted with an important figure from their past. Elizabeth's a different person now, her mom is no longer the towering figure she imagined her as, she's not necessarily infallible. The show's had moments before where it acknowledged that memory is subjective--remember Philip remembering Paige as graceful as a kid and Elizabeth thinking of her as a klutz. I think the difference between Elizabeth's mother and the way she seemed to be building her up was more about that. She told Paige she was "tough," assumed Philip wouldn't like her--I think that's all about Elizabeth's own feelings about her. It's Elizabeth who feels like she has to defend her mother's toughness like she defends her own. Her mother still has the same position as always--she stands by her belief they had to send her away, she also misses her as she's always said on the tapes.

 

Now she's dead, but Elizabeth's last memory of her isn't of her mother sending her away as a child but as woman she met as an adult when she had her own daughter that age. She can't help but identify with her mother in ways she didn't as a kid. It's common when you see something from childhood to note most of all how small it is when it seemed bigger before. I think, going off what you said about putting the cards on the table, that that meeting has kickstarted the same kind of reckoning in Elizabeth as Philip is also having. And just as Philip is now seeing his tormentors as kids rather than people bigger than him (like they were when he was a kid) she's re-calibrating the way she relates to her mother. Philip facilitated that by letting Elizabeth see her mother for the first time as an adult.

 

This also makes me remember when Granny told Elizabeth that she loved Zhukov and Elizabeth seemed skeptical that anyone would love Granny--it seemed like the unspoken idea was that Elizabeth saw Claudia and herself as cold people--and presumably sees her mother the same way. But really none of them are.

 

If Philip is that tired of killing yet he is able to strangle someone to death why is he killing again. The first epi emphasized the toys he found at the tech guys house when he killed him which troubled him. Speaking of which they never showed the meeting with his family and lawyers.

 

 

He's tired of killing but he will still kill to protect himself.

 

I don't know if we'll ever see anything with lawyers. I think the line was just in there to let us know how the murder is being handled on the FBI end. Of course Gene's family doesn't believe he's a traitor--the investigation isn't closed. Martha's not off the hook. Vlad's murder didn't go away either.

 

You mean like when the little girl is choking, and no one notices because the nun is playing the guitar? Yeah, that sounds about right!

 

 

LOL! Or when the guy's being attacked by the dog in the background.

 

It hasn't progressed so quickly at this point in the show that governments are using a fully realized World Wide Web to spy on people.

 

 

Also, the KGB doesn't need a computer to spy on them. It can bug that house any time it wants. I always assume Philip and Elizabeth must sweep it to know where they can talk privately.

[beeble]

Stupid Glanders. Go away. That is the most intense Chekov's gun in recent memory.

 

I still don't get this: Elizabeth did not have permission to visit her mother in East Berlin but she did it anyway...how? The Centre is pissed at her, according to Gabriel. This mother thing isn't going away.

 

William was born in the USSR and made into a spy, a la Philip and Elizabeth. Now he works in US gov't science stuff but is being tailed by the FBI! Um, shouldn't that be a warning to the KGB, that one of their own is getting the side-eye by the local officials?  Shouldn't they just tell him to lie low? And Philip, in front of God and everyone, decides to just have an unwigged talk with him! Ugh! Carelessness drives me nuts. 

[Tetraneutron]

Home computers back then were basically fancy word-processors and rudimentary game consoles. No one's using it to communicate and no one'e writing anything incriminating on it. 

 

I think Elizabeth bringing up med school or law school for Paige showed that she really has a different vision of what Paige's spy life will be like. 

Elizabeth wasn't saying Paige would go to med or law school, she was making fun of Philip for thinking that. For still believing that their kids would have normal American lives and aspirations, that they'd escape being spies. Elizabeth knows that Paige isn't going to have a normal suburban adulthood, she'll do whatever the Center tells her to. And dreaming about their kid being a doctor or lawyer, the way a normal American parent would, is silly. 

 In a situation where the pilot was clearly distressed and having jitters about his mission, I think it should have been Philip's responsibility to abort the hand-off. 

Philip and Elizabeth work with plenty of distressed, or coerced, or stupid people and it's their job to cajole or manipulate or scare their marks into doing what they want. Philip wouldn't be doing his job if he said to the pilot "Oh, you're nervous? That's OK, sweetie. I'll find someone else, don't worry about it." Instead, it's his job to get these people do to things they otherwise wouldn't do. Like Martha, for instance. 

 

Yeah, I've always been surprised when people for years have seemed to think Martha is just this lame duck useless thing that they keep around because Philip likes her and he's being stupid because she's just a liability at this point.

I agree Martha is incredibly useful. I think it's because the audience has been culturally conditioned to see "lonely spinster cat ladies" like Martha a certain way. Mostly with pity. So to see one being evil is a surprise. On most other shows she's break down, tell the FBI, and that would be her redeeming moment. 

I'm sorry if I gave the impression that Pastor Tim was grooming all of youth group to become KGB spies. No, but he's sheparding them through an impressionable age. They might grow into activists for social justice and who knows where that might lead? I think it would be a good idea. Get to know and influence American teens and keep a close eye on Paige at the same time.

But that's assuming that getting these kids to be social activists would soften them up to be loyal USSR communists. Unless the writing staff consists entirely of Rush Limbaugh listeners, that doesn't make sense. This community pastor is not actually softening up his wealthy, suburban teens to hate capitalism and love the USSR. Pastor Tim is ordinary. If he were getting teens like Paige to hate capitalism, both the FBI and Centre would know about it. the Oh, and then by total coincidence, one of his most loyal congregant is the daughter of spies? That's soap territory. 

[Umbelina]

You're thinking of modern computers. I don't recall personal computers in the 1980s having cameras, and even if this one did, they didn't have wireless or broadband internet that just stayed on all the time. The modem was a special phone cradle where you set down your house-phone's handset and it made a lot of noise--not something you could do covertly, especially in a house with only one telephone line. Hell, Philip just barely stole info on the Arpa-net like one or two seasons ago. It hasn't progressed so quickly at this point in the show that governments are using a fully realized World Wide Web to spy on people.

I'm pretty sure they will both check it completely for hidden bugs or cameras that were available at the time.  Also, neither of them really understand computers at all, so I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that the KGB has a reason for giving them the computer, other than the education of their children.  It could turn out to be interesting. 

 

Stupid Glanders. Go away. That is the most intense Chekov's gun in recent memory.

 

I still don't get this: Elizabeth did not have permission to visit her mother in East Berlin but she did it anyway...how? The Centre is pissed at her, according to Gabriel. This mother thing isn't going away.

 

William was born in the USSR and made into a spy, a la Philip and Elizabeth. Now he works in US gov't science stuff but is being tailed by the FBI! Um, shouldn't that be a warning to the KGB, that one of their own is getting the side-eye by the local officials?  Shouldn't they just tell him to lie low? And Philip, in front of God and everyone, decides to just have an unwigged talk with him! Ugh! Carelessness drives me nuts. 

They explained that part, everyone who works in where William does is being tailed, and not every day.  It seems like a rotating type "tail" to make sure they aren't selling information or whatever.  That sounds rather haphazard, but I think it's because they don't have any hard intel about any of them, but want to watch all of them.  Not just William.

 

That's why Martha's information is so very critical, they know which days William is being (routinely) tailed, and which days he isn't.

[sistermagpie]

I still don't get this: Elizabeth did not have permission to visit her mother in East Berlin but she did it anyway...how? The Centre is pissed at her, according to Gabriel. This mother thing isn't going away.

 

 

She did it by flying to West Berlin with Paige under the pretense of a mother daughter trip. The KGB knew she was there and would leave after seeing her mother. So the KGB arranged a meeting at their hotel in West Germany. The Centre's mad because they were blackmailed that way. It shows their agents getting uppity.

 

Now he works in US gov't science stuff but is being tailed by the FBI! Um, shouldn't that be a warning to the KGB, that one of their own is getting the side-eye by the local officials?

 

 

I think no, because they don't tail people just because they're suspicious. This is what was going on with Fred in S2. They just trail people with security clearance for safety's sake whether or not they suspect that person.

 

And Philip, in front of God and everyone, decides to just have an unwigged talk with him! Ugh! Carelessness drives me nuts.

 

 

Thanks to Martha they have security reports that have been checking out so they knew he wasn't being followed then. He doesn't have to be disguised with William himself because he's an Illegal too. So it wasn't careless, but a decision based on what they knew. One that probably was partly about MR not having to wear that disguise in William scenes in future.

 

Elizabeth knows that Paige isn't going to have a normal suburban adulthood, she'll do whatever the Center tells her to. And dreaming about their kid being a doctor or lawyer, the way a normal American parent would, is silly.

 

 

I agree, but I don't know if she's really saying it's silly. Paige doesn’t have to work for the Centre--and I don't think Elizabeth would ever envision her being coerced into it. I think she was more just being scornful of Philip’s dreams for Paige. To Elizabeth going to law school or medical school makes Paige less of a person and sometimes she still lashes out at him for his “weakness” of wanting a soft life for her. That’s why she was accusing him of enjoying the Pastor Tim situation, saying that if their cover was blown Paige wouldn’t be a spy just like Philip wanted.

 

Unless the writing staff consists entirely of Rush Limbaugh listeners, that doesn't make sense. This community pastor is not actually softening up his wealthy, suburban teens to hate capitalism and love the USSR. Pastor Tim is ordinary.

 

 

LOL! Yup. One of the things that gets hit pretty consistently with Paige is that if anything this church has brought her even MORE in line with middle-class American values than plenty of other kids might be. This isn’t a church full of fringe people on the edge and societal outcasts, it’s full of suburban white people whose kids don’t like it when they have sordid things going on. Paige still hasn’t gotten over the idea that her parents worked with somebody who was an actual drug dealer—and this was after she has “woken up” to the fact that black people exist but not much in Falls Church.

 

Now, I think Pastor Tim himself might harbor some old radical dreams from the 60s, back when he was getting on the front page of the paper protesting the war (probably without getting into very dangerous territory). He does enjoy a little civil disobedience like chaining himself to a fence and getting arrested in front of the kids. He uses words like “radical” as a good thing, even if he applies it to totally socially acceptable things like baptism.

 

I’m not saying he’s got some secret longing to work for the USSR at all, but that’s the only thing I could see cracking that door open if anything could (and maybe nothing could). Perhaps, for instance, he’d be potentially open to Liberation Theology and feeling like his actual congregation might not go for it enough so it’s right to bring in some refugees with the help of his newfound contacts in the KGB to grab a little heroism for himself if that seemed to be the only way to do it.

[beeble]

They explained that part, everyone who works in where William does is being tailed, and not every day.  It seems like a rotating type "tail" to make sure they aren't selling information or whatever.  That sounds rather haphazard, but I think it's because they don't have any hard intel about any of them, but want to watch all of them.  Not just William.

 

That's why Martha's information is so very critical, they know which days William is being (routinely) tailed, and which days he isn't.

 

Thanks for that. I wonder if that was/is standard procedure. But don't these people have to pass background tests? I assumed that's what those tests are for, so that the FBI doesn't have to spend valuable resources tailing people every now and then.  I'm guessing there were a lot of people working here, and level 3 clearance for stupid, sexy Glanders was pretty significant clearance, meaning that William was deemed an OK guy.  But ok, I'll accept this was the rule. New questions: When will Stan have William-watching duty? When will he see Philip talking to him? 

 

I also really like Dylan Baker as an actor and hope that his character gets to seep into P and E's lives. 

[KarenX]

I am not going to look up specific quotes, but last season at an EST meeting the leader maybe? told the group that You Are in Charge of You. You Control You. The big realization Philip seemed to have was that Philip was the only person in charge of Philip. Not the KGB, not Elizabeth, no one. Just Philip. It was this huge emotional cliffhanger for me to see what he would do with that epiphany.

 

I saw him really thinking about it hard when he was in Gabriel's apartment and then ultimately picked up the Sucrets Epidemic Tin. He understands that he is in charge of Philip and that he agreed to take the tin back and carry that responsibility with him, and that he is the only person behind that choice. It was a distasteful choice, but he knows it was his choice. He knows too about all the unsavory potential consequences of either taking it or walking out, and he has to live with his cowardice or his ruthlessness or whatever it is that made him do it, and that is probably as unpleasant and distressing as feeling like your destiny is out of your hands.

 

Philip Being in Control of Philip and what he will do with Philip is the most exciting thing on this show for me. I can't stop thinking about it.

[shura]

Philip and Elizabeth work with plenty of distressed, or coerced, or stupid people and it's their job to cajole or manipulate or scare their marks into doing what they want. Philip wouldn't be doing his job if he said to the pilot "Oh, you're nervous? That's OK, sweetie. I'll find someone else, don't worry about it." Instead, it's his job to get these people do to things they otherwise wouldn't do. Like Martha, for instance. 

 

Well, Philip pressed on with this pilot despite all the signs, did exactly what you define as doing his job and failed. With nearly disastrous consequences.

 

His job is actually to get things done, period. It doesn't matter whether he gets things done using this obviously unwilling courier or some other plan. He has to realize that he can't actually control what the pilot will do after getting off the bus with the tin. And he has to recognize that he can't afford the worst case scenario here, which is that either (a) the pilot brings the tin to the authorities, they trace it back to Fort Detrick, and Willian is gone with all his intel on the US bio weapons program, or (b) the pilot throws the tin away, it finds its way into some water supply eventually and thousands of people die. Why keep on insisting on this particular plan? I don't think it would be a failure on Philip's part to be flexible. 

[sistermagpie]

But don't these people have to pass background tests? I assumed that's what those tests are for, so that the FBI doesn't have to spend valuable resources tailing people every now and then.

 

 

The background tests just show they're probably not shady when they get hired. A person with a good background could still decide to sell secrets tomorrow.

 

Well, Philip pressed on with this pilot despite all the signs, did exactly what you define as doing his job and failed. With nearly disastrous consequences.

 

 

Yeah, but sometimes jobs fail. They know that. He followed procedure.

 

I don't think it would be a failure on Philip's part to be flexible.

 

 

But he really doesn't have that much room to be flexible. They don't have a dozen ways lined up to take this thing. It's hard enough getting this guy in place. It's totally not Philip's job to figure out how to get the tin to Moscow. He can't do that--he doesn't have that ability or knowledge. All he has is the narrow goal of passing this thing to this courier. He meets him and he's nervous, thinks somebody's onto him but has no concrete reason to think that. It makes sense for Philip to at least try to talk the guy down. As Tetraneutron said, he's not going to look at nervousness and think that's enough of a reason to tell the guy he'll just find someone else. It's stressful for everybody.

 

Of course it would also be understandable if he really thought this guy was broken and would never make it. I think they'd respect his opinion on that. But if he imagined the worst case scenario for everybody he dealt with he'd barely hand off anything. And of course in this case he's possibly even got more reason to want to not have this thing as the other guy does, since this guy might only be worried about getting caught rather than what's in the tin. The safest place for this stuff is where it's going so nobody along the way is going to not order the next person in the chain to take it. There's no alternate plans that anybody can make up on the fly.

 

Basically here we've got two guys who are desperate to protect themselves and keep this thing away from themselves. They both want to insist the other person take it. Only one of them really says, "I'm out."

Edited March 26, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Shriekingeel]

The writers are having fun contrasting Stan's jealous rages against Phillip (who has zero designs on Stan's wife) with Stan's bonding with Henry (who lusts for Stan's wife).

[txhorns79]

I'm pretty sure they will both check it completely for hidden bugs or cameras that were available at the time.  Also, neither of them really understand computers at all, so I'm not completely dismissing the possibility that the KGB has a reason for giving them the computer, other than the education of their children.  It could turn out to be interesting.

 

I'm sure the purpose is to spy on them and the kids, but the other commenters are right that the technology was very rudimentary at the time.  Unless it's something like Philip had with the teenager last season, where someone is going every week or two to pick up the tapes, it's not going to be that useful as a spying tool.  More to the point, the KGB knows Philip and Elizabeth aren't stupid, whether they understand computers or not, and would know that there could be bugs or other monitoring devices on the computer. 

[shura]

Yeah, but sometimes jobs fail. They know that. He followed procedure.

 

Yes, exactly - they know that sometimes jobs fail, they know to check for signs of likely failure. This is where they have to assess the worst case scenario, not in jobs where they see no reason to be concerned, of course. Then they go to procedures for aborting a mission (like when they kept aborting meeting William for the first time). It's not at all failure at their job to decide to back off when they feel it's a better option.  And Gabriel didn't seem too fazed that the hand-off had not happened. It doesn't look like he's lacking options.

 

Of course it would also be understandable if he really thought this guy was broken and would never make it.

 

You know, the scene on the bus was so intense and awesome that my recollection of it was not quite right. I remembered the pilot being distressed and not wanting to do it, but it all happened so fast that it was hard to pay attention to what Philip actually knew as it was happening. I rewatched the episode tonight and realized that Philip actually has no chance to go to the abort procedure. He gets on the bus, gives the tin to the pilot (who looks fine, no red flags), the pilot takes it and tells Philip, calmly enough, that his co-pilot might be onto him. Philip says that it's probably nothing, asks for details and right there the security guard shows up. Pretty much within a minute the guy is dead, the pilot is shocked, Philip is not quite himself as well at that point, understandably, so he is not looking for signs that the pilot may be likely to bail. And the pilot says nothing till he gets off the bus. So yes, in hindsight, Philip should probably have aborted, but it was impossible for him to do it.

 

And the pilot leaving the tin for Philip to find was really probably the best outcome for Philip (short of everything going smoothly as planned, that is). At least Philip has no uncertainties about anything. He knows for sure the pilot is not going with the worst case scenarios.

 

Oh, another thing I became convinced of only on second viewing is that, when Stan gives Oleg his condolences about Oleg's brother, however sincere they may be, he is totally trying to play Oleg, which Oleg either picks up on or may at least suspect. There is a scene early in the episode where Gaad tells Stan (paraphrasing) "Yeah, Oleg Burov is not the kind of guy you can take with your tapes. Use this instead. This is correct, we checked through multiple intelligence sources."  He never says specifically what "this" is, so I missed its significance the first time around, but yeah, that's about Oleg's brother. They really do write this show extremely well.

[Dowel Jones]

Elizabeth wasn't saying Paige would go to med or law school, she was making fun of Philip for thinking that. For still believing that their kids would have normal American lives and aspirations, that they'd escape being spies.

 

So, after years of study and mountains of debt, apprentice spy Paige shows up at Angels Medical Center and reports back "Everybody is sleeping with everybody else here (except me!) and the place is in Code Black 360 days a year!  What doe we do?"

 

I'm sure the purpose is to spy on them and the kids, but the other commenters are right that the technology was very rudimentary at the time.

 

Philip:  "This computer is bugged and they're spying on me, I know it!  Nothing happens for a couple of minutes every time I boot it up.  Please look at it."

KGB repairman:  "It's Windows.  Get over it."

[Umbelina]

Thanks for the correction on the finale episode title last year.  My bad.

The title of the PTV recap was "Everyone Lies" and I thought they used real episode titles here.  Oops.

 

Good title PTV!  Because, yeah. 

[Clanstarling]

Oh, another thing I became convinced of only on second viewing is that, when Stan gives Oleg his condolences about Oleg's brother, however sincere they may be, he is totally trying to play Oleg, which Oleg either picks up on or may at least suspect. There is a scene early in the episode where Gaad tells Stan (paraphrasing) "Yeah, Oleg Burov is not the kind of guy you can take with your tapes. Use this instead. This is correct, we checked through multiple intelligence sources."  He never says specifically what "this" is, so I missed its significance the first time around, but yeah, that's about Oleg's brother. They really do write this show extremely well.

That's a good catch! My main take on that scene with Oleg was that it underscored just how isolated Stan has become.

None of his relationships are honest or trusting (whether it's on his part or theirs). He's alienated his wife, son, boss, and now Phillip. It's like he stepped out of an undercover assignment only to gradually slide into being undercover in his own life.

I don't count the woman he's screwing - there's something about her that seems sketchy to me, and she was awfully quick to jump to conclusions about Phillip and Sandra and report them back to Stan. Of course, it just be that Callie Thorpe's previous roles predispose me to not trust her motives.

If I liked him better, I would feel for him. The only thing I did like, at least in this episode, was his honesty with Henry.

Edited March 27, 2016 by clanstarling

[Penman61]

I dunno, it's probably me looking at 1983 mores with modern eyes, but I found Stan's "bonding" over Henry's hot science teacher with her zipper and bewbs creepy.  Hey, Stan, the appropriate responses to Henry should include the sentences "Find someone your own age," and "It would be ILLEGAL for her to have any relationship with you."  I took that scene to show just how lonely Stan is, that he has devolved to needing peer-like discussions about women with a 13-year-old neighbor boy.  As Trump would tweet, Sad!

Edited March 27, 2016 by Penman61

[sistermagpie]

I took that scene to show just how lonely Stan is, that he has devolved to needing peer-like discussions about women with a 13-year-old neighbor boy.  As Trump would tweet, Sad!

 

 

I think that's definitely intentional. Not that Stan doesn't lecture Henry on going after someone his own age specifically, but he's not presenting himself as a father figure but a total peer. Last season he often seemed like the latchkey kid who hung around the Jennings hoping to be asked in for dinner, and his relationship with Henry fits into that well, especially since his rejection of Philip has been kind of immature as well. I can understand why he felt betrayed by just the idea that Philip was with Sandra, but his reaction still really does suggest that he's kind of stunted emotionally if he can't really wrap his mind around the fact that Philip and Sandra could have coffee. He's always been very bad with women.

 

We know he feels bad about his relationship with his own son, and we saw him being awkward in trying to bond with him before. But he totally is making up of it by being friends with Henry, not his dad (even if Henry no doubt now thinks it would be cool to have this for a father). His talk about sex wasn't creepy in the sense of there being any undercurrent that Stan was preying on Henry. But it was talking to him like he was an equal and encouraging that kind of bro-y sexism (basically: Your science teacher has big tits and wears sexy clothing? I want to hit that too!). He is kind of the older guy that looks cool to a kid but isn't. The guy even fails the most basic test of good taste by complimenting the cologne.

 

I actually wonder if that won't come up, with Henry saying sort of sexist things at home and getting corrected for it.

Edited March 27, 2016 by sistermagpie

[Clanstarling]

His talk about sex wasn't creepy in the sense of there being any undercurrent that Stan was preying on Henry. But it was talking to him like he was an equal and encouraging that kind of bro-y sexism (basically: Your science teacher has big tits and wears sexy clothing? I want to hit that too!). He is kind of the older guy that looks cool to a kid but isn't. The guy even fails the most basic test of good taste by complimenting the cologne.

Yes, I agree completely. What I liked, to be specific, was his straight-forward "No" - no hedging, when Henry asked him if he had a chance with the teacher. No dancing around.

It occurred to me that Stan and Phillip are interesting contrasts (I may be really stretching on this one). Stan's conversation with Henry is inappropriate, but I think pretty much the one he would have had with his son in different circumstances. Giving Henry his son's cologne, I think, shows he sees him as somewhat of a substitute for his own child.

Meanwhile, Phillip struggles with his mission of seduction because he sees his daughter in the young girl he's supposed to groom. He has, if I recall correctly, treated her more like a father than a potential lover on an occasion or two.

Both are seeing their own children in terms of what they're currently doing. One is wishing his relationship with his child could be what it is with the substitute, whereas the other is terrified of how his own child could be used and abused like his target.

[sistermagpie]

Meanwhile, Phillip struggles with his mission of seduction because he sees his daughter in the young girl he's supposed to groom. He has, if I recall correctly, treated her more like a father than a potential lover on an occasion or two.

 

 

I think that is  good parallel! Though funny that if Stan is using Henry as a substitute for Matthew (which I think he would be) he's going for such a peer-relationship. That's not totally off since as kids get older they can interact more as peers. But he could also have decided he just is bad at fathering so doing this instead, deciding he's better at being the cool dad. Stan's really creating a relationship that's as easy for him as possible. It's not that he's always being crazy--as you say, it's not like he tells Henry he could have a chance with his teacher--but Stan's getting a lot out of it (which, btw, he also did with Philip). And a parallel to Philip and Sandra in a way, maybe, in his mind because he's mad at Philip but wants to secretly be friends with Henry still when he felt Philip should just stay away from Sandra or never do anything in secret if he was Stan's friend.

 

Anyway, it is just interesting that with Philip and Kimmie he prefers being in the parental role and does seem to be thinking about what's best for Kimmie herself. It would be easier for Philip to seduce her in terms of getting access to the tapes, but I feel like the connection to Paige is twofold. On one hand it's a parallel to him worrying about his own daughter being exploited. But I think it's also just is generally growing empathy and the fact that having a kid this age makes him more understanding of where they are emotionally and what they need. Stan's relationship with Henry is so far all about Stan. Not to the point where it's abusive or anything (in fact Jim the one abusing Kimmie's trust) but it's definitely about him. Note how Stan even wants to make Henry more mac and cheese because he likes it and it's Henry who says he has to save room for dinner. Henry's the one giving the parental voice there (and also being instinctively smarter in keeping their meetings running smoothly by not wanting to cause conflict by never having an appetite thanks to Stan's junk food).