Spoilers and Spoiled Speculation

[tv echo]

Matt's Inside Line: Scoop on The Flash, Lucifer, JAG, Good Girls, Whiskey Cav, iZombie, New Amsterdam and More
By Matt Webb Mitovich / April 15 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/04/15/flash-spoilers-season-5-nora-secret-barry-iris-reaction/

Quote

Do you have any inside scoop about Gotham, particularly on Bruce’s storyline? —Louisa
Great Caesar’s ghost, a lot happens this Thursday in the Fox series’ penultimate episode. In fact, I dare say many would be rather content with it as the series finale itself, given all the important and iconic boxes that get checked. As for Bruce, he makes some tough choices — including one that I believe Camren Bicondova teased earlier this season.

Edited April 16, 2019 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Gotham finale first look: Lili Simmons replaces Camren Bicondova as an adult Selina Kyle
By Samantha Highfill April 19, 2019
https://ew.com/tv/2019/04/19/gotham-series-finale-first-look-lili-simmons-adult-selina-kyle/

Edited April 20, 2019 by tv echo

[Delphi]

That really makes no sense to me... everyone else is keeping their role... except Selina... and the actress is only a few years older than Cameron.   It's a baffling decision. 

[Sakura12]

Well David is only providing the voice. They have a new actor to play Batman as well. 

[Delphi]

@Sakura12 I thought that David was providing close up shots and voice and that a stunt double was just providing the bulky look of Batman. 

[Sakura12]

That would only work if we are only seeing Batman not Bruce Wayne. Because David's head on a much bulkier body would look funny.

I agree that I don't see why Camren couldn't play older Selina if they are only going 10 years. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

[SimoneS]

So different actors will be playing both Bruce and Selina? I know it is 10 years later, but still...

[Perfect Xero]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

So different actors will be playing both Bruce and Selina? I know it is 10 years later, but still...

It's a really weird decision IMO. I mean, I can sort of see it with David if they think that Batman just needs to be a mountain of muscle or whatever but don't get it at all with Cam. Selina shouldn't look that different going from late teens to late 20s.

[Chas411]

By the sounds of Camrens social media announcement she didn’t leave the producers much choice. She didn’t want to do the final episode and rather then make her ride out the contract, they agreed.

i don’t get it either.

[SimoneS]

Maybe Camren was just done and not interested in being sexualized as the adult Selina. But the whole thing is just odd.

As for David, I read that they were going to manipulate his appearance so he looks bigger. Not sure if they are still doing this.

[DR14]

I respect her choice, but the reason I hate recasts is that it creates impossible shoes to fill.  Fans of Gotham have had five years to invest in the main characters.

I'm sure her replacement will do her best, but she'll never replace Camren and I hope Camren thought of that.

Whatever her reason, I hope it's not related to haters making fun of her body type, I did a side-to-side look and couldn't tell much difference 

Edited April 22, 2019 by DR14
None

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Maybe Camren was just done and not interested in being sexualized as the adult Selina. But the whole thing is just odd.

It is odd, but that could possibly make sense.  The majority of the incarnations of Catwoman has been sexualized.  And on this show, look at the track record with the aged-up Poison Ivy. 

It seemed like they were trying to move towards a rift between Bruce and Selena this season and Selena's resurrection could have explained how she could have become Catwoman but in the last couple of episodes, Bruce and Selena were back in sync again. 

The Writers should have written something that would have fit what the actress wanted to play.  No one wants to see a recast in the final episode.  If David Mazouz wasn't going to play Adult Bruce, then I'm not sure what the point would be.  Maybe he just added extra bulk to his Batsuit to simulate muscles.  If they're going to CGI his face onto a man's body, I just hope it doesn't look too ridiculous.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Camera One

[Danielg342]

For one episode- and one that's ten years in the future- I'm OK with a recast, especially considering it was Camren who made the choice not some executive. The show is practically finished anyway so there's no fear that anyone who thinks of Gotham's Catwoman won't think of Camren and it's Catwoman in a different phase of her life, so it would make sense to me to bring in an adult to play the role.

This isn't the same thing as Claire Foley as Ivy where someone from above decided she wasn't the long term answer for the character. It's just a one-time thing for a one-time event (the finale) that Camren herself apparently wanted...it's not a big deal to me.

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, DR14 said:

Whatever her reason, I hope it's not related to haters making fun of her body type, I did a side-to-side look and couldn't tell much difference 

Wait, there are people making fun of Camren's body? Is this on social media? WTF! I saw someone posted here some vague comment about how Camren grew up. I couldn't figure out what that was about. 

17 minutes ago, Camera One said:

It is odd, but that could possibly make sense.  The majority of the incarnations of Catwoman has been sexualized.  And on this show, look at the track record with the aged-up Poison Ivy. 

I will never get over this show aging and sexualizing Ivy. Bruno Heller is sick pervert. Maybe he grosses Camren out also. I am going to be sure to stay far away from any of his shows in the future.

Edited April 22, 2019 by SimoneS

[DR14]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

Wait, there are people making fun of Camren's body? Is this on social media? WTF! I saw someone posted here some vague comment about how Camren grew up. I couldn't figure out what that was about. 

Yeah, it's social media, sigh.  I've read some people's comments on pics she posts after reading her farewell to Gotham tweet.

She occasionally posts some generic tweets alluding to people who make fun of people's looks, so that and her resignation tweet kinda prompted me to see if what I suspected was true.

Edited April 22, 2019 by DR14

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, DR14 said:

Yeah, it's social media, sigh.  I've read some people's comments on pics she posts after reading her farewell to Gotham tweet.

She occasionally posts some generic tweets alluding to people who make fun of people's looks, so that and her resignation tweet kinda prompted me to see if what I suspected was true.

I am so sorry that Camren has been subjected to this cruelty. I wish her well in her next projects. 

[Sakura12]

[cambridgeguy]

So it looks like Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham at the exact same time Batman appears.  What an amazing coincidence! 

[Danielg342]

8 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

So it looks like Bruce Wayne returns to Gotham at the exact same time Batman appears.  What an amazing coincidence! 

It's like they're the same person!

😮

[Sakura12]

I just hope that Selina or someone goes hello Bruce when they see Batman. 

[superloislane]

On 4/22/2019 at 5:07 AM, Camera One said:

If David Mazouz wasn't going to play Adult Bruce, then I'm not sure what the point would be.  Maybe he just added extra bulk to his Batsuit to simulate muscles.  If they're going to CGI his face onto a man's body, I just hope it doesn't look too ridiculous.

I would have appreciated a recast for an older Bruce even for just one scene. But it looks like we might not actually see older Bruce at all and it's only Batman which seems absurd to me since the entire story is about Bruce coming back but we won't get to see any reunions with characters.

[tv echo]

[ursula]

On 4/21/2019 at 4:45 PM, Chas411 said:

By the sounds of Camrens social media announcement she didn’t leave the producers much choice. She didn’t want to do the final episode and rather then make her ride out the contract, they agreed.

i don’t get it either.

I can't be the only one who finds all this fishy? Like how many actors do you know that just break their contract for a 5-season long series for one episode? 

Also I wish if they absolutely had to recast Selina, they had at least picked an actress that could convincingly be an older Camren! The two women look so different in facial bone structure and physique. There were times when older!Selina looked taller than Alfred. I mean, did Selina keep growing after puberty? lol. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by ursula

[Daltrey]

6 hours ago, ursula said:

I can't be the only one who finds all this fishy? Like how many actors do you know that just break their contract for a 5-season long series for one episode? 

Also I wish if they absolutely had to recast Selina, they had at least picked an actress that could convincingly be an older Camren! The two women look so different in facial bone structure and physique. There were times when older!Selina looked taller than Alfred. I mean, did Selina keep growing after puberty? lol. 

6 hours ago, ursula said:

I can't be the only one who finds all this fishy? Like how many actors do you know that just break their contract for a 5-season long series for one episode? 

Also I wish if they absolutely had to recast Selina, they had at least picked an actress that could convincingly be an older Camren! The two women look so different in facial bone structure and physique. There were times when older!Selina looked taller than Alfred. I mean, did Selina keep growing after puberty? lol. 

I'm just learning all of this after posting my disappointment both here and on twitter. I have to admit, part of me does suspect something fishy, like maybe she was let go and struck a deal to make a public statement that it was her decision. However, then you have to wonder, why would they cut her loose with one episode left? It wouldn't be that difficult to make her appear older, especially considering they didn't bother to do it with anyone else, and it had no bearing on her interactions with the other characters. Ultimately, I have to believe that for whatever reason, it was an artistic decision on her part. If not, then it was a completely ignorant decision on the producer's part and I hope she was well compensated for lying on their behalf.... But I find that scenario incredibly hard to believe. As to her being body shamed on social media, that's completely believable and utterly disgusting. She's a beautiful, healthy looking, successful young woman and no one deserves that, regardless of their situation. 

[Camera One]

12 hours ago, Daltrey said:

I'm just learning all of this after posting my disappointment both here and on twitter. I have to admit, part of me does suspect something fishy, like maybe she was let go and struck a deal to make a public statement that it was her decision. However, then you have to wonder, why would they cut her loose with one episode left? It wouldn't be that difficult to make her appear older, especially considering they didn't bother to do it with anyone else, and it had no bearing on her interactions with the other characters. 

I find it weird as well.  As you said, they made no effort to make anyone else look older except in the most superficial of ways like giving Alfred a cane.  I suppose the possibilities are:

1) She really didn't want to play an older Selina.  

2) The producers wanted a different look and they didn't want to be criticized for it, so asked her to say it was her decision.  

3) It was more mutual, in the sense the producers described what they wanted to do and the actress decided she didn't feel she could play that and they didn't push.

I mean, any of the above could have been the case.  David Mazouz was essentially not "there" either, so maybe the actress and/or the producers felt that "Batman" was ultimately a different person, so maybe so should Selina.  Which is a weird way of approaching a series finale, if a series finale was meant to give satisfying closure to the actual characters the viewers knew and loved.  

Edited April 27, 2019 by Camera One

[Chas411]

The actress has quite a strong personality so I think had the producers ousted her she wouldn’t have been so complimentary of them in her goodbye tweet.  

[call me ishmael]

I tend to believe it.  Gotham’s late 20s catwomam was much more sexualized than teenage Catwoman was and I’m willing to believe that she didn’t feel that that was something she wanted to do.  Especially if she has received a lot of online nastiness.

[Perfect Xero]

I did see some suggestions that the producers wanted to do a Catwoman spinoff, I wonder if that played a part in Selina being recast.