S03.E15: Incommunicado

[ElectricBoogaloo]

After a supernatural event takes the Witnesses by surprise, both Crane and Abbie are forced to work alongside their most hated foes yet. Meanwhile, Jenny and Joe struggle to salvage their relationship, as they continue to battle their own internal demons.

Promo:

Edited March 17, 2016 by Tara Ariano
locked topic until after show airs

[Miss Dee]

Heh. "Internal demons." I see what you did there, press release!

[Pyralis]

Good Lord, did the Tom Mison morphic field make THO almost interesting? (does Crane wavy hand thing to indicate "mind blown")

[Enero]

Well this episode was… I’m not sure yet. Need to watch again. I cannot believe they destroyed the tablet and the emblem right when things were getting interesting surrounding them. I figured the emblem somehow imprisoned THO, which was the reason it was on the outside of the Catacombs.

 

I did like the scenes with Crane and THO.

 

Pandora and THO’s marriage drama is not working for me. Did she really think she could go home to him? Surely she suspected he’d put it together that she knew about the witnesses having the emblem.

 

Jenny’s love getting wendigo beast Joe to step back into the circle was all kinds of ridiculous, not believable at all, but whatever.

 

The Crane/Abbie scenes were awesome! But the writers seem to have put them firmly back in the friendzone, if they ever left.

 

I’m going to have to watch this again before I can say more.

[Senna]

The past few episodes have been boring me a bit, but this one snapped me back to attention.  The donut shenanigans, the odd couples of Hidden One/Crane and Pandora/Abbie, the bloodline connection (not that we didn't already suspect), the Joeny, CranexAbbie hug, and of course, *hands flutter* Mind blown!  I'm actually feeling a bit excited for the last two episodes.

[MissAlmond]

My network system went dead and I lost 15 minutes of the show.  I haven't the faintest idea of why Crane/THO were sitting around talking, why a banshee was needed, what Sophie meant when she made a comment about banshee being dead and what made Pandora decide to work with Abbie in the first place.  I am very, very confused.  Sometimes I hate technology. 

[TaurusRose]

I can't comment on this episode yet because I am so friggin' annoyed by all the Joe/Jenny love and the NO Ichabbie love. I am truly pissed right now.

[blixie]

 

But the writers seem to have put them firmly back in the friendzone, if they ever left.

 

They did more than that they implied they were related, did they not? I hope the 10 minutes I caught mean I totally misread that comment from Crane to Abbie otherwise I thought Tom and Nicole were still rocking the Ichabbie pretty hard core. I think Abbie is holding back a little and understandably so, for so many reasons, but Ichabod? That boy is GONE.

[bethy]

I really enjoyed quite a bit of this episode, but I feel like TPTB have decided that the only way to delay the Ichabbie is to have Nicole and Tom in the same room for no more than five minutes an episode. It's frustrating.

I continue to like what they're doing with Sophie. Great scene with Jenny in the ambulance. Also her, "Not it," when she asked who was going to tell Abbie they'd killed her monster.

THO was finally interesting, but I'm going to be SO disappointed of Pandora doesn't have something up her sleeve to get rid of that jerk. Please, please, please let this be a long con.

On Joe and Jenny. Sigh. I don't hate them, but I get the feeling they're supposed to be some sort of placeholder for any romantic relationship began Crane and Abbie. Like, " Huh the fans want a relationship. Here! A relationship!"

[DearEvette]

I also need to do a re-watch because the dialogue in this one was great and I want to go and back and hear it all again.

 

Ichabod was the MVP this episode.  He had some great one-liners" I am eating my feelings"

As someone on twitter put it, he got a lifetime invite to the Black Barbeque because of his trying to school THO on Nina Simone, Ta-Nehisi Coates and The Artist Formerly Known as Prince.

 

But THO roared back strong with his breakdown of Ichabod's life.  As well as the 'I'm Omnipotent' line.  Peter Mensah's line delivery was great.

 

I have always enjoyed Abbie and Pandora's scenes together, but I have to give it up to Ichabod and THO, they were totally reading each other.

 

Yeah, the Jenny/Joe stuff is really rather like getting tickets to Rita Ora when you wanted to see Beyonce.  Not quite doing it for me....

[Miss Dee]

They did more than that they implied they were related, did they not? I hope the 10 minutes I caught mean I totally misread that comment from Crane to Abbie otherwise I thought Tom and Nicole were still rocking the Ichabbie pretty hard core. I think Abbie is holding back a little and understandably so, for so many reasons, but Ichabod? That boy is GONE.

I didn't get the impression that they were related. Rather that both of them come from two separate Lines of Witnesses, each of which has passed down the responsibility of witnessing. Possibly from father to son on one side and mother to daughter on the other.

Ooh, maybe there will be some ancient proclamation that the Witnesses *cannot* be together, because to do so would Jeopardize the Ancient Lines and Risk Destroying the World! ("Don't cross the streams. It would be bad. Real bad.") Which would be actually a good sign of a potential Witness romance...because A, there's no faster way to get people to notice each other than to forbid it, and B, it's a more interesting way to introduce internal conflict in a romance than Yet Another Love Triangle (and I don't think they'd dare try that after Season 2).

Sorry, will leave off speculating now! But I'm really intrigued that they're going there with the ancient bloodlines.

I am the sole and lonely Joe/Jenny lover here I think ("I will go down with this ship.... I won't throw my hands up and surrender...." /Dido), and I really enjoyed that storyline. It's not the slow ache/burn that is the Ballad of Abbie and Ichabod; it's the Joe and Jenny Good Times Rag, and that is precisely why I love it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I don't think Joe and Jenny are there to "replace" Abbie and Ichabod, I think they're there to be juxtaposed and reflect the kind of couple Abbie and Ichabod are in contrast. Even the colour palattes... look at the colour palattes in each couple's end scene. Joe and Jenny are under the red lens, in the daytime; their place is in the well-lit trailer with all its warmth and light. Whereas Abbie and Ichabod, they're shot under the blue lens in the archives. Often this season they're shot at night, or in the Masonic cell. Joe and Jenny's love is in the light of day where everyone can see it; Abbie's and Ichabod's is hidden in the dark, behind the walls of their own hearts, waiting for daybreak to come and shine its light on the truth of what they actually are to each other.

Daybreak will come.

Hopefully at around the same time they learn that loving each other might cost them the end of the world because they're not supposed to cross the streams. Heh.

On a different note: I am loving Sophie more and more. Her "not it" killed me. And I thought after not having much to do in the back half that Shannon Sossamon and Peter Mensah both brought it.

I want to take Crane's "up with knowledge!" speech and frame it on my wall. I don't think I've ever loved him more than at that moment. Even though he's no "Shirtless" Joe Corbin. ;)

Edited March 19, 2016 by Miss Dee

[Sparkling Beth]

Okay, what happened at the very end when Pandora returned to THO?  You won't believe this, but just at the point where she told him that she had the box back together, the local station here broke into the show to broadcast a speech by the most frightening monster ever foisted upon humankind, Donald Trump, who is here in Utah.  I'd rather face a banshee. 

 

Did anything of significance happen at that point?  I can't believe the stupid station couldn't wait one or two more minutes!

[Yolapukka]

I'm happy with Ichabbie crumbs but there was nothing dropped that could be put down to anything other than a genuine if complicated friendship. Progress please.

 

Pandora needs to keep that liar's bland smile pasted on her face, blather something about refilling the fruit bowl grab her stuff and run.

 

Did THO look weepy when Ichabod was pouring himself a drink when the purple light enclosed them? Just me?

 

I liked most of Joe and Jenny this week, although I thought a lot of it seemed to run a bit long. The part with Jenny needing to talk the Wendigo back into the circle was too much of a contrivance, though I appreciated the necessity of preceding it with shirtless Joe and the silliness afterward over the key.  I'm largely pleased that Pandora put Joe's residual Wendigo to use. Much as I was intrigued by the possibility that he had a power that could manifest itself and be put to use, I wasn't entirely comfortable with it being something he could call forth on several grounds. It being a Wendigo made me squirm over the cultural appropriation/misuse and the Wendigo being an entity that slaughtered Joe's fellow soldiers by possessing him didn't exactly make me gleeful that he might be able to control it rather than it being something beyond his control that had inhabited him and been eliminated.

 

I like Abbie being in the FBI less and less as time goes on, especially now that they've succeeded in establishing Sophie as a character. She could have provided a connection to the FBI with much the same storytelling they've had throughout the season and we would not have the clunkiness of newbie federal agent Mills calling upon the powers of handwavium to bring her housemate to crime scenes. Or all the clunkiness of her direct supervisor being an ex that she met in training.

 

I overall liked the storytelling in this episode, but after last week I really wanted to see the witnesses working together instead of spending another episode largely separated.

[Free]

THO was finally interesting, but I'm going to be SO disappointed of Pandora doesn't have something up her sleeve to get rid of that jerk. Please, please, please let this be a long con.

 

Same here, there better be something in the end.

[netlyon2]

I need to process and rewatch before I make a more positive post about the things I loved in this episode (most of it), but right now I need to discuss my biggest problem: Joenny.

In the first half of the season, I found them pretty harmless, even cute. Although their storyline started out seemingly disconnected from the main plot, they were still interesting, and it was even better when the Nevins, FBI, and Pandora storylines converged at mid season. Plus, anytime they were on screen meant I got a reprieve from Busty Ross and the Crextra, so there's that.

At this point, however, they have become a real irritant, for a variety of reasons. (1) I think the show thinks that I am more invested in their relationship than I really am. (2) There are still so many things about the main story and characters that we don't know, and Joenny is not leading us to any answers. And (3) they are getting WAY. TOO. MUCH screen time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I don't think Joe and Jenny are there to "replace" Abbie and Ichabod, I think they're there to be juxtaposed and reflect the kind of couple Abbie and Ichabod are in contrast. Even the colour palattes... look at the colour palattes in each couple's end scene. Joe and Jenny are under the red lens, in the daytime; their place is in the well-lit trailer with all its warmth and light. Whereas Abbie and Ichabod, they're shot under the blue lens in the archives. Often this season they're shot at night, or in the Masonic cell. Joe and Jenny's love is in the light of day where everyone can see it; Abbie's and Ichabod's is hidden in the dark, behind the walls of their own hearts, waiting for daybreak to come and shine its light on the truth of what they actually are to each other.

Daybreak will come.

I saw your comparison a few episodes back and found it an apt one in terms of the types of relationships that the sisters are having. As I recall, however, CTHD's main focus was on the younger couple, with the mentors playing a supporting role. That model isn't a good fit for this show, where the younger couple shouldn't even have equal prominence with the older one, let alone greater. This is Abbie and Ichabod's show; Jenny and Joe are the B-team, but it's hard to tell that from the past few episodes.

Last week, Abbie's storyline rightfully had the most screen time, but Joenny took over the B-slot with the padded-out auction/Wendigo stuff. Crane was confined to, what, three scenes? Now, in this episode, Crane had the meaty stuff, which was great, but Abbie was relegated to being an extra in her own storyline, which was kind of a travesty. All the Wendigo crap lifts right out of the episode if they find a way to capture the banshee, leaving time to really explore the complicated relationship between Pandora and Abbie. How much more could we have learned about the now-destroyed symbol and the history of the Witnesses if we had TWO such conversations between Witness and adversary?

With only two episodes left this season, we ain't got time for all this Joenny mess. They need to save it for Season 4. And if they're really worried about not getting a Season 4, there are more important things they need to tie up than the epic love of the Ichabbie substitute ship (which I will now dub "Splenda"). [end rant] Whew, I feel a bit better now! Thanks for indulging me.

[For Cereals]

So you could probably have witnesses from more than one bloodline, right? I will keep watching, but the show is bordering on silly. Maybe because I'm nine, but I laugh every time someone mentions Pandora's box and I feel like she just needs her love tank filled like a housewife of the underworld. I also giggled out loud when the banshee was just running around in the concert hall. If there's no Crabbie, or Crane shirtless thing on this show soon, I will give up.

[HalcyonDays]

They did more than that they implied they were related, did they not? I hope the 10 minutes I caught mean I totally misread that comment from Crane to Abbie otherwise I thought Tom and Nicole were still rocking the Ichabbie pretty hard core. I think Abbie is holding back a little and understandably so, for so many reasons, but Ichabod? That boy is GONE.

 

No, no no. The implication is that Witness power/responsibility/whatever it may be, is divined by bloodline. Crane's family, and his ancestors mosied on doing there Witness thing, generations through generations (if required - this is an important aspect to consider).

[Yolapukka]

What would it matter anyway if they were from the same bloodline? The distance would be well beyond anything that would be an appreciable degree of cousinhood. Anyway, I agree with those who think it likelier that they are separately descended from different witnesses. 

Edited March 19, 2016 by yuggapukka

[Yolapukka]

... Maybe because I'm nine, but I laugh every time someone mentions Pandora's box and I feel like she just needs her love tank filled like a housewife of the underworld. ....

 

 

I keep making bad jokes to myself about this and they are starting to leak into my posts.

[snarktini]

Did THO really mean omnipotent? I feel like the writers meant omniscient. He first says it as a reason why he doesn't read. Which I interpreted as "I don't need to read, I already know everything that matters." (But I guess that could go the other way: "I'm so powerful, who cares about fancy book learnin'.") Then he repeats it later when he hears Pandora's confession and is surprised, and he says omnipotence isn't wisdom. Omniscience would work better there.

 

And, at any rate, he's been anything but omnipotent lately!

 

ETA: That culture list from Crane was great. Loved that he mixed in more modern stuff, Ta Nehisi Coates, Prince, Diane Arbus (who's modern by his standards at least).

Edited March 19, 2016 by snarktini

[Frozendiva]

I thought Banshees were harbingers of death, and not attracted to things like loud music/noise - the band jamming in the teaser, the sirens, Beethoven's 5th as the 'trap'.

 

I liked THO and Crane. Interesting how he was translating the modern version of the cuneiforml language.  Don't know if it would have changed as rapidly as Old English to its modernish form. Thought THO was a bit jealous when Crane poured himself a drink and did not offer one to THO.

 

No idea about Pandora's deviousness and whose side she is playing or just trying to save her own hide. She's had a lot of time to mull over THO and the disappointment he has become.

 

Perhaps Witnesshood skips a generation or two, like inherited psychic ability. There would be more than one bloodline in terms of evolution.

 

Not hugely interested in Jenny's and Corbin's romance.

[possibilities]

I guess the magic to dissolve the Thura barrier is not strong enough to work through t'shirt material.

[CooperTV]

For some reason I thought it was a hot mess. It was an entertaining, plotty mess that was attempting to draw multiple parallels between the characters and the new info was revealed. But it was still a mess.

 

THO and Ichabod scenes were (kind of) great but they were mostly ludicrous. THO watching sulkily while Ichabod talking about Nina Simon and The Artist Knows as Prince? Really, show? At least THO done Pandora's mind-trick on Ichabod and was attempting to play on him being lonely and unable to control his fate (the way Pandora did to Abbie before).

 

When Abbie decided to work with Pandora, I thought I missed an episode, the pacing was so weird.

 

Sophie disappeared completely in the second half of the episode. But we got more "we're in peril and we need to talk about our feelings right this second" from Joe/Jenny once again, so yay? (When i say "Yay!", I mean "STFU, Joenny, you're stealing Ichabod's screentime with your shippy nonsense!"). And "yay" for Jenny getting through Joendigo with the power of love, and then she got to cuddle him and everything because True Love!

 

And yet we only had awkward hug from the Witnesses. Even though they apparently are destined to be together (as the Witnesses) through their respective bloodlines. Why does the show keep separating the Witnesses? Why Ichabod is obviously all over Abbie but Abbie is like, whatever? What the hell is going on with this?

 

WTF.

[Enero]

I went back and rewatched:

THO casually conversing with Crane was BSC considering he came there to kill him. It sort of reminded me of the BSC of S1, but made total sense. Though he could apparently use his power to breach the barrier, if he did so he would destroy all that he hoped to gain, the world and the lowly humans he wants to serve him. So of course he'd engage Crane who he knew would try to break the barrier to save himself and in turn would save THO.

However, what didn't make sense was him continuing to engage Crane after scanning the archives and discovering there was nothing there that could help break the barrier. Why didn't he just do what he came there to do - kill Crane, then use his power to escape?

So Pandora is loyal to THO out of love, but mostly guilt. This explains why she continues to tolerate him being a selfish ass. I hope that guilt doesn't last much longer and that she develops a plan to destroy him.

Questions

The Emblem of Thura - Who created it? The Witnesses of the past? How was it created?

Did THO translate the tablet or just provide Crane with the alphabet he needed to read the tablet? Either way all might not be lost with the destruction of the emblem and tablet.

Is the Wendigo still apart of Joe? It looked like it went dormant again rather than faded away. Also did anyone understand why he was "dying" when the attempt to break the barrier didn't work the first time? And how it working somehow saved him from death?

The Bad

The Banshee story made no sense. Things that were particularly bad :

Jenny, Joe and Sophie driving down the road to suddenly find the Banshee in the area.

Jenny going to some random guy in a bar to ask how to kill/catch the Banshee.

Sophie disappearing for the second half of the episode to go find another monster after the Banshee was destroyed. I didn't know monsters now grow on trees in Sleepy Hollow and are readily available for use as needed.

Joe/Jenny are starting to border on insufferable, which is unfortunate because I like both characters. I don't even mind them dating, though IMO they don't have that kind of chemistry. They need to be presented in small doses. Right now they're getting way too much screen time. As someone said upthread I'd rather had more Crane/Abbie and/or Abbie/Pandora than the Joe/Jenny stuff.

Line of the Night - "Please lower that ineffectual weapon witness. I'm not in the mood." Gotta love the cool, calm truth of Pandora's response to Abbie's ridiculous attempt to use a gun AGAIN to stop Pandora. SMH. Will she ever learn? Same with Crane trying to shoot THO.

This could've been a strong episode but the Joe/Jenny stuff kind of ruined it. From the previews, I think Headless might be back next week! Perhaps his head did survive the exploding Kindred after all.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Has no one told Crane that Prince is now going by the name Prince again? Sidenote: I just saw him play in Oakland two weeks ago and [hand flutter] mind blown!

 

Because I'm still 12 years old, I giggled every time Pandora talked about her box.

Pandora: When I last released [the Hidden One], my box was intact and my powers were at their peak.

Abbie: And now your box is broken.

 

Pandora: My box is best powered by living breathing creatures from realms beyond this mortal sphere.

[netlyon2]

[1] Did THO really mean omnipotent? I feel like the writers meant omniscient. He first says it as a reason why he doesn't read. Which I interpreted as "I don't need to read, I already know everything that matters." (But I guess that could go the other way: "I'm so powerful, who cares about fancy book learnin'.") Then he repeats it later when he hears Pandora's confession and is surprised, and he says omnipotence isn't wisdom. Omniscience would work better there.

 

[2] And, at any rate, he's been anything but omnipotent lately!

[1] I actually think omnipotent works better here.  It explains why he is so focused (pissy, whiny, moody, and broody) on getting his power back, as well as why there are things of which he is not aware.  So, he had to use his power to read everything in the archives at once because he didn't already know what was there, he didn't know that the Witnesses had the Emblem of Thura so he walked into a trap, and he didn't know that Pandora knew until Ichabod used the Witness Baby Monitor. 

 

[2] And still the absolute worst!  ("Worse than crabs, worse than scurvy, worse than lice or plague!")

 

When Abbie decided to work with Pandora, I thought I missed an episode, the pacing was so weird.

 

Sophie disappeared completely in the second half of the episode. But we got more "we're in peril and we need to talk about our feelings right this second" from Joe/Jenny once again, so yay? (When i say "Yay!", I mean "STFU, Joenny, you're stealing Ichabod's screentime with your shippy nonsense!"). And "yay" for Jenny getting through Joendigo with the power of love, and then she got to cuddle him and everything because True Love!

 

And yet we only had awkward hug from the Witnesses. Even though they apparently are destined to be together (as the Witnesses) through their respective bloodlines. Why does the show keep separating the Witnesses? Why Ichabod is obviously all over Abbie but Abbie is like, whatever? What the hell is going on with this?

 

WTF.

Werd!  I was all settled into my witness reunion moment, and then it felt like their hug fell apart or something--like maybe Nicole hit Tom in the eye and the director yelled "Cut!" but they never reshot the scene.  I think I actually exclaimed, "What the hell!?" 

 

I mean, this episode would have been a great time for mortal peril to cause a woman who meticulously builds emotional barriers to lower them and finally admit her deep romantic love for her partner in crime.  However, Show, you got the wrong Mills sister to do it!

 

[1] However, what didn't make sense was him continuing to engage Crane after scanning the archives and discovering there was nothing there that could help break the barrier. Why didn't he just do what he came there to do - kill Crane, then use his power to escape?

[2] So Pandora is loyal to THO out of love, but mostly guilt. This explains why she continues to tolerate him being a selfish ass. I hope that guilt doesn't last much longer and that she develops a plan to destroy him.

[3] Did THO translate the tablet or just provide Crane with the alphabet he needed to read the tablet? Either way all might not be lost with the destruction of the emblem and tablet.

[4] Line of the Night - "Please lower that ineffectual weapon witness. I'm not in the mood." Gotta love the cool, calm truth of Pandora's response to Abbie's ridiculous attempt to use a gun AGAIN to stop Pandora. SMH. Will she ever learn? Same with Crane trying to shoot THO.

[5] From the previews, I think Headless might be back next week! Perhaps his head did survive the exploding Kindred after all.

[1] The Emblem of Thura fed off of THO's power and used that to trap him; like Satan fanning his wings in the 9th circle, THO couldn't use his power because that would only make the prison walls stronger (or destroy the world since this realm can't handle as much mystical mojo as the Catacombs).  It's the same prison that held him for more than 4,000 years and, once again, he needed Pandora to break the barrier from the outside.

 

[2] Great insight!

 

[3] Good point.  I'm still salty about losing the tablet, though.  It was also nice to have something that was supposed to be written in another language not revealed by a close-up shot to be written in English.  *cought*Franklin'salphabet*cough*  Eyes on you, Prop Team!

 

[4] Oh, I miss that Pandora so much!  Remember when Ichabod was sputtering at her and she was like, "I don't have time to school you properly on your place, lil' punk.  How about y'all witness this!" and just strolled into the tree?  She was such a snarky badass until she dragged her crusty boyfriend out of the Catacombs.  Put him back, Pandora!

 

[5] I thought so, too, and got really excited.  However, I think the latter part of the preview shows that it is the Kindred itself (himself, now?), not Headless.  Still great, but not the same.

 

Has no one told Crane that Prince is now going by the name Prince again? Sidenote: I just saw him play in Oakland two weeks ago and [hand flutter] mind blown!

Hee!  I thought the same thing.  That list/speech was still awesome, though.  And your sidenote sounds a-mazing!

[Miss Dee]

I saw your comparison a few episodes back and found it an apt one in terms of the types of relationships that the sisters are having. As I recall, however, CTHD's main focus was on the younger couple, with the mentors playing a supporting role. That model isn't a good fit for this show, where the younger couple shouldn't even have equal prominence with the older one, let alone greater. This is Abbie and Ichabod's show; Jenny and Joe are the B-team, but it's hard to tell that from the past few episodes.

Ah well, analogies can only go so far. My comparison in that sense is really only about how Joe and Jenny as a couple allows the show to compare and contrast Abbie and Ichabod in a subtextual way. And when I think of the older warriors in CTHD I think of them more as being constrained by age and tradition and duty into not allowing themselves to give voice to their feelings, and from a plot perspective they were certainly central to the whole story. This doesn't come across as just being supporting players to me, just a different type of role and certainly a different romantic story.

But the analogy breaks down character to character anyway; the quartet in CTHD isn't at all like our team in Sleepy Hollow. It's just both are examples of stories where the dynamics between a younger couple and those of an older couple are there to be compared to each other, and I'm convinced that's one of the reasons for a romance between Joe and Jenny this season. I'd be interested in comparisons to other stories as well.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Miss Dee

[topanga]

I liked this episode, though my criticisms are in line with other people's: Not enough Ichabbie, not enough Crane and Abbie even in the same scene, and too much Joenny. The Pandora/THO story still confuses me, but I care so little about it that I'm not overly concerned. One question, what was THO writing for Crane, and why was he having a conversation with Crane about how Crane could escape (?). Again, confused, but not invested in the story. 

 

The scenes with THO/Crane and Pandora/Abbie were well-acted, and they were interesting as isolated scenes. Not necessarily as part of the overall story arc. 

 

I like the little aspect's of Crane and Abbie's relationship that make them seem like a couple: her caring about his health and buying him a carrot muffin instead of a doughnut, for example. A muffin isn't necessarily healthier than a doughnut, by the way. But it's also frustrating because we have little "couple" moments like these, but none of the wrestling on the bed or kissing or declarations of love that we do with Joenny. All of those romantic scenes are being wasted on two people whose romance I don't give a rat's ass about watching. 

[roomtorome]

I rarely pay attention to behind the scenes stuff about any shows but I am wondering: is there some issue(s) between the two leads on this show that is keeping the writers/directing from having them together much on screen?  Seems they have them doing their "work" separate and apart from one another most of the time this season.  

 

Just curious.  Seems like an odd choice for them to make.  I don't care about any romances (on any shows) so it's not that that I care about just the oddness of keeping the two main protagonists apart given the premise of the show.

[kminfinity]

I enjoyed this episode a lot.  It was well written and hit all the beats the story needed.  The writing was even able to breathe enough to include some really reflective subtext and context for the villains.  My favorite parts:

 

Crane and The Hidden One discussing Art; everything with Jenny and Joe (!!!!); the clever 'eavesdropping scene' foreshadowed with the donuts, then developed when THO hears Pandora admit she knew Abby had the magic Thura thingy; the humor playing easily off the drama and the action...

 

A+

 

ETA

 

Miss Dee said:                                                                                                                                                                                     I am the sole and lonely Joe/Jenny lover here I think ("I will go down with this ship.... I won't throw my hands up and surrender...." /Dido), and I really enjoyed that storyline. It's not the slow ache/burn that is the Ballad of Abbie and Ichabod; it's the Joe and Jenny Good Times Rag, and that is precisely why I love it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I don't think Joe and Jenny are there to "replace" Abbie and Ichabod, I think they're there to be juxtaposed and reflect the kind of couple Abbie and Ichabod are in contrast...

 

I'm here.  I really like your analysis of the way they counterpoint Abbie and Crane.  I don't think it's necessary to dislike Jenny and Joe in order to love Abbie and Crane.  They bring different vibes to the story.  I do understand that some think their story/screentime comes at the cost of Abbie and Crane and that's a legitimate concern.  But I did always think the romance would be a very VERY slow burn, and take several seasons to bear fruit, and I'm actually glad they aren't rushing it to placate a fandom.  The problems with Sleepy Hollow imo is not/has not been that Ichabbie is not already a romantic couple.

 

I will be sad though, if we don't get seasons 3-4-5 to see it play out as it should.

Edited March 19, 2016 by kminfinity

[Primetimer]

When a previously dullsville god heads aboveground, eyes will roll -- specifically, his. And it's hilarious.

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[Sparkling Beth]

Nobody yet has answered my question above about whether or not anything of significance happened just after Pandora returned to THO at the end and told him she had obtained more pieces of her box. (Yeah, the "box" references always make me snicker, too.) I know it was very close to the end of the show when I was forced to run screaming from the room at the sight of Trump when the local station broke from the show to cover his speech, but I wondered if there was any kind of climax that I missed. (*snerk* "climax.")

[netlyon2]

^^^THO decided to string her along for a bit by pretending to be loving and impressed. Then, he turned things around ("Omnipotence is not wisdom") and revealed that he heard her confess to knowing that the Witnesses had the Emblem of Thura and failing to warn him. Just like the last few episode, it ended with him turning the Manson Lamps on Pandora to the sounds of menacing music and fandom shouting "Run, Pandora; you in danger, girl!"

[bethy]

I rarely pay attention to behind the scenes stuff about any shows but I am wondering: is there some issue(s) between the two leads on this show that is keeping the writers/directing from having them together much on screen?  Seems they have them doing their "work" separate and apart from one another most of the time this season.  

 

Just curious.  Seems like an odd choice for them to make.  I don't care about any romances (on any shows) so it's not that that I care about just the oddness of keeping the two main protagonists apart given the premise of the show.

I've started to wonder this, too, which makes me sad because in the past, at least, the two of them really seemed to enjoy each other off-screen.

[Sparkling Beth]

Thanks, netlyon2!  Man, I hope Pandora listens to us and turns the tables on that guy.  Women everywhere will be pumping victory fists.

[MissAlmond]

I am the sole and lonely Joe/Jenny lover here I think ("I will go down with this ship.... I won't throw my hands up and surrender...." /Dido), and I really enjoyed that storyline. It's not the slow ache/burn that is the Ballad of Abbie and Ichabod; it's the Joe and Jenny Good Times Rag, and that is precisely why I love it. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I don't think Joe and Jenny are there to "replace" Abbie and Ichabod, I think they're there to be juxtaposed and reflect the kind of couple Abbie and Ichabod are in contrast. Even the colour palattes... look at the colour palattes in each couple's end scene. Joe and Jenny are under the red lens, in the daytime; their place is in the well-lit trailer with all its warmth and light. Whereas Abbie and Ichabod, they're shot under the blue lens in the archives. Often this season they're shot at night, or in the Masonic cell. Joe and Jenny's love is in the light of day where everyone can see it; Abbie's and Ichabod's is hidden in the dark, behind the walls of their own hearts, waiting for daybreak to come and shine its light on the truth of what they actually are to each other.

Daybreak will come.

 

I hope so Miss Dee because, frankly, Jenny/Joe don't have the gravitas to merit an entire episode of “I love you’s”.  It’s like being handed a summer cocktail when one longs for a Bordeaux.  Don’t get me started if next week I have to put up with Crane/Zoe’s Bobbsey twin Abbie/Daniel. Zzzzzzzzzzzz

Edited March 19, 2016 by MissAlmond

[HalcyonDays]

I'm happy with Ichabbie crumbs but there was nothing dropped that could be put down to anything other than a genuine if complicated friendship. Progress please.

 

That's the because the writers were Shernold Edwards and Heather Regnier, who have long said that they view Ichabbie as friends only. You can see it in their writing.

 

Ichabod was the MVP this episode.  He had some great one-liners" I am eating my feelings"

 

He's always the MVP, in my book - Mison's mere presence on screen really elevates any scene - he made THO interesting. Love there back and forth banter, the above line, and his realizations when THO was basically telling him his life of always 'following'. Loved Crane nonchalantly having a last drink of Brandy or whatever it was before he "died" again.

 

But the best fun part was this:

 

[CooperTV]

That's the because the writers were Shernold Edwards and Heather Regnier, who have long said that they view Ichabbie as friends only. You can see it in their writing.

 

They could have at least put them in the same scene together. A scene that's longer than 45 seconds, that is.

[Dobian]

The main weakness of this show is the absolutely terrible job they do of writing villains.  Hidden One is a total snooze with his whole "Me mighty god, you puny mortal" schtick.  And Pandora is another incarnation of Katrina with her breathless pondering.  There are so many fantasy/superhero themed shows out there that do a much better job of giving us interesting  - and fun - villains.  Just look at Gotham.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Dobian

[saber5055]

Thought THO was a bit jealous when Crane poured himself a drink and did not offer one to THO.

Especially since there were two glasses on the table. Crane displayed some out-of-character bad manners, which showed his contempt of THO.

And Pandora is another incarnation of Katrina with her breathless pondering.

Yes. I kept thinking KATRINA! every time Pandora was on screen.

Edited March 19, 2016 by saber5055

[HalcyonDays]

They could have at least put them in the same scene together. A scene that's longer than 45 seconds, that is.

 

They probably didn't because they know that any longer, and those two don't seem like mere "friends". :')

 

I too find it strange that they are apart a lot this season.

[CalamityBoPeep]

They probably didn't because they know that any longer, and those two don't seem like mere "friends". :')

 

I too find it strange that they are apart a lot this season.

 

I'm wondering if it might possibly (hopefully, hope hope hope!) mean that they found out sometime during the late season filming, that they were likely to get renewed? Nobody's said anything like that yet, but they did say early on that they'd have some notice if they got cancelled, in order to wrap it up in a satisfactory way. Maybe they set up the Ichabbie so well earlier, in anticipation that they'd get cancelled and would want to finish up that story. But then, when the cancellation word continued not coming, they started operating on the assumption that they'd get another season, and had to dial things back on Ichabbie to keep that one in the chamber for later use?

 

Pure speculation on my part, of course! But I can't imagine it being any kind of problem between Tom and Nicole that's led to the distance. They've always had such tremendous respect for each other.

Edited March 19, 2016 by CalamityBoPeep

[DearEvette]

And Pandora is another incarnation of Katrina with her breathless pondering. 

 

Nope. Nope. Nope.  I reject thee!  LOL.

 

Well, Pandora as an entity is rather tiresome, but Shannyn Sossamon is miles ahead of KW in my opinion.  Mainly because SS does so much more with her face.  For instance the look on her face when she thinks Abbie is going to give her the Eye of Whatsehoosit so that Ichabod won't lose his soul.  Or the look on her face when she is trying to lure Abbie to her side when they face off after Pandy tortures Nevins out of that FBI truck.  She is always in the moment and her facial expressions gives Pandy's words so much more nuance.  She lets it out more when she is in her scenes with Abbie.  But she is never -- even on her most tedious when she was just talking to her box -- as wooden as KW.

[Sparkling Beth]

I'm wondering if it might possibly (hopefully, hope hope hope!) mean that they found out sometime during the late season filming, that they were likely to get renewed? Nobody's said anything like that yet, but they did say early on that they'd have some notice if they got cancelled, in order to wrap it up in a satisfactory way. Maybe they set up the Ichabbie so well earlier, in anticipation that they'd get cancelled and would want to finish up that story. But then, when the cancellation word continued not coming, they started operating on the assumption that they'd get another season, and had to dial things back on Ichabbie to keep that one in the chamber for later use?

 

Pure speculation on my part, of course! But I can't imagine it being any kind of problem between Tom and Nicole that's led to the distance. They've always had such tremendous respect for each other.

I hope you're right about renewal.  It makes sense that the writers would feel they have more time for the slow burn to become a blaze if they have another year to work with it.  I would never believe that the separation of Crane and Abbie has anything to do with the actors who play them.  Even if they did have a problem with each other (and there's no evidence whatsoever to support that theory), they're both professionals. 

[HalcyonDays]

I'm wondering if it might possibly (hopefully, hope hope hope!) mean that they found out sometime during the late season filming, that they were likely to get renewed?

 

Taking it to the speculation thread, here.

[Yolapukka]

 

it ended with him turning the Manson Lamps on Pandora to the sounds of menacing music and fandom shouting "Run, Pandora; you in danger, girl!"

 

The exact words I did indeed shout!

[thuganomics85]

This was a weird episode in that I really loved a lot of parts of it, but I had to wade through a lot of boring stuff to get to it.  So, I guess I should say the my feelings were mixed for this episode?

 

First thing is that Ichabod has done the impossible and actually made me enjoy The Hidden One.  Ichabod/HO was highly entertaining, and I loved how Ichabod kept bringing up all the art and stuff that the humans have accomplished (including The Artist Formerly Known as Prince!), and never let the HO damper his spirits.  And the HO is more entertaining reacting to Ichabod then just droning on like world domination like he normally does.  Even Peter Mensah seemed to be having more fun in this episode.

 

Sophie continues to be an entertaining addition to the team.

 

Ichabod using the tablets to accidentally find out what Abbie bought for him at the donut shop was a hoot and I enjoyed her reaction to it.

 

On the other hand, not enough Abbie/Pandora which I found highly disappointing, since I really enjoy those two together, and how Nicole Beharie and Shannyn Sossamon play off one another.

 

But my biggest issue was Jenny and Joe.  At this point, I've just accepted I'm not a fan and feel like they drag things down.  I know I was suppose to find her declaration of love romantic, but all I could think was that it took him turning into a Wendigo again and almost dying, before she finally brought herself to say it.  I don't know; I just feel like this romance is more one-sided, and Jenny just isn't in to him as much as he's into her.  I'm just not feeling it at all, and I feel like it's getting more and more time on the show.

 

Now that The Hidden One found out Pandora caused his capture a long time ago and she knows he knows, maybe things will finally move on this front.  By that, I of course mean Pandora will finally stand up for herself and make her play against him.

[Enero]

That's the because the writers were Shernold Edwards and Heather Regnier, who have long said that they view Ichabbie as friends only. You can see it in their writing.

I get this but I still call fowl. If CC is moving towards a romance between Crane/Abbie then it would be written as such whether the episode writer/s sees the characters as friends or not. The directing is also playing a role in what we're seeing, and to me, they've significantly backed off what looked like a build up to Ichabbie for the last couple of episodes. I wonder if this cool down is related to the status of the show's renewal.

Especially since there were two glasses on the table. Crane displayed some out-of-character bad manners, which showed his contempt of THO.

I've seen this stated a couple of times but I saw the scene differently. I thought THO was still reeling from learning that Pandora had betrayed him and of course his impending demise.

One thing I've noticed this season about Crane is that he LOVES food and spirits. Lol. Almost every episode he's had a scene where he was drinking. I wonder if he drank this much in the 18th century. Lol

Edited March 19, 2016 by Enero

[DearEvette]

Sophie continues to be an entertaining addition to the team.

 

I forgot to mention how much I am enjoying Sophie.  SH isn't known for being a show that is light-hearted at all and when they do bring a little comedy it is usally Tom they rely on because his comedic timing is impeccable.  But I am liking how Sophie is filling that niche a little bit.  Her entire delivery of 'Who's gonna tell Mills that we knocked off her monster? Hmm?..."  "Not it!"  Also her face!  LOL.

 

 

Ichabod using the tablets to accidentally find out what Abbie bought for him at the donut shop was a hoot and I enjoyed her reaction to it.

 

So... a little bit of sexy Ichabbie speculation/hope.  Last week the scientist made it seem awfully like the symbol was almost like a representation of the Witnesses themselves.  "two things that are bonded together" etc. etc.  But the power in it comes from the two things, coming together, 'making their own chemistry".  Abbie notices that the symbols need "skin on skin" action to work.  Alls I'm saying is ... maybe now that the symbol is destroyed and the Witnesses still need to defeat THO, maybe it'll require some skin-on-skin action?  ....Ok I'll see myself out then....

 

On the other hand, not enough Abbie/Pandora which I found highly disappointing, since I really enjoy those two together, and how Nicole Beharie and Shannyn Sossamon play off one another.

 

 

On rewatch I think the entire Banshee sub-plot and the Jenny/Joe stuff really worked against the best parts of the episode.  I don't hate Joenny as a couple.  I actually like them.  I just think their insertion here in this episode plus the over emphasis on their love at this point works more as a distraction/time waster than anything else.  This episode would have been perfect if it had been a simple bottle episode with THO/Ichabod battling wits inside and Pandy/Abbie doing the same thing outside.  No need for Jendigo, of the Banshee or even Sophie even though I like her in this episode. 

 

The two pairs, facing off just those four would have been perfect because they really are the central plot here.  We already know that Nicole & Shannyn have great actor chemistry.  And now we know that so do Tom & Peter.  I can only imagine what just the 40 mins of just them mind-mojo-ing each other could have been like.

[Sparkling Beth]

Hmmm...just thinking here.  If being a Witness is passed along through the bloodline, what would happen if two Witnesses had a child together?  Would said child be twice as effective as a champion against evil?  (Hint, hint, Ichabbie.)