S02.E15: King Shark

[John Ramos]

Last week, when Iron Mask communicated the name "Jay Garrick" to the Flash team, it seemed reasonable to conclude that he was conveying his own identity. But in light of the big reveal this week, I think it's more likely he was trying to tell the group who Zoom is (he would think he's Jay if he has no reference point for other realities). So now I'm thinking Possibly Dead Jay is exactly who he says he is, Zoom is Hunter Zolomon/Earth-1 Jay doppelganger, and Iron Mask is someone else entirely. Possible?

[GHScorpiosRule]

HAH! I KNEW IT! So, no, the "Reveeeeeeeeeeal" of Zoom came as no surprise to me.  And I suspect that is another Jay behind the iron mask. The Eyes gave it away.

 

I won't lie. Since I just watched JAWS this past weekend, I snorted at Cisco's "We're gonna need a bigger Flash." and then Wells's reply to Cisco (because Cisco wanted to be Quint)--"You know that Quint died, right?" Or maybe it was killed, but I snorted just the same.

 

When Barry kept saying everything was his fault, I had visions of Smallville's Clark, moping and saying the same things in self-pity all those years ago, and was shaking my head no, no, no! But then he actually pulled up his big boy pants and owned it, and is actively doing stuff instead of cutting everyone else out of his life.  Barry may have been a jerk for most of this episode, but he ain't no BDA*.

 

As some, I'm still not warming up to this version of Wally. My mind kept going back to how Rosenbaum's Wally would have said this, or done that, etc. I don't think that's what the show writers were going for.  Also, since everyone seems to know that Barry is the Flash, and Wally is family, why not tell him? Maybe then he'd stop acting like a jerk toward Barry.

 

it's too much to ask, but now I want Iris to talk to Barry about their dopplegangers and what that means for them.

 

What?

 

*Big Dumb Ass

Edited February 25, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[rogueprinzess]

I'm not gonna lie, this episode pretty much bored me. The only highlights for me were the running on water/King Shark chase scene near the end (good on you, FX dept) and Cisco's quips. Zoom's reveal wasn't a big thing since I'd pretty much guessed it was him. Turned out to be very anti-climactic. I'm still okay with Wally; I can see where his 'tude is coming from right now especially since he's the only person in CC that doesn't know Barry is the Flash (yet). 

 

it's too much to ask, but now I want Iris to talk to Barry about their dopplegangers and what that means for them.

 

What?

 

That would be awesome, but I'm inclined to believe that the show will forget all about this. if we had to spend 10 mins of this episode hearing about Caitlin's feels YET again rather than have Barry talk to his "best" friend Iris about what was eating at him, I highly doubt they'll address Iris' reaction to Barry's news. What I did like (fast and subtle as it was) was the way Barry told Iris about their dopples. He didn't seem sheepish or weird about it; he just confirmed it like it was a fact, like it was the most natural thing in the world. I interpreted it to mean that he's already realizing (or realized) that his feelings for Iris are still firmly in place. I'm willing to speculate that a good part of his extra-mopey mood since E2 is knowing that the relationship he wants exists on E2 (and that Iris can be a little firecracker).

[cambridgeguy]

 

Also, since everyone seems to know that Barry is the Flash, and Wally is family, why not tell him? Maybe then he'd stop acting like a jerk toward Barry.

Wally's incredibly jealous of Barry, aka Mr. Perfect.  How do you think he'll feel when he finds out that Mr. Perfect is also an actual superhero who is beloved enough to have a Flash day and helped save the world?  Sure, it was his fault that the world needed saving in the first place but I think that gets left out.

 

It was kind of funny when CIsco and Harry were both looking at their monitors and they needed Jesse to point out the audible beeping on the King Shark tracking monitor.  Isn't the point of an audible alarm to make you look up?

 

I kind of wonder how the timing works out with what's going on in Arrow - Barry being on Earth 2 would explain why he (presumably) won't show up while Oliver is desperately doing his search during this week's episode.  It might also explain why Felicity didn't bother to return his calls when she gave him crap about not calling her when HE was the one with the broken back if this is after the fallout from that.

Edited February 24, 2016 by cambridgeguy

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Flash Tells A Fish Story
It's a big one!

[bettername2come]

On one hand, I get Cisco being worried about Caitlin and he did seem to be wanting to support her. She never struck me as the most emotionally stable person and Cisco was worried she would snap. Cisco at least has his parents and brother in his life so he has a support system. They seemed to indicate that Caitlin doesn't have that. On the other hand, it had to have been annoying Caitlin to have Cisco hovering and mother-henning so much. It still had potential for something good, but I felt it was ruined by the acting. I know Danielle was trying, but she does this thing where she opens her eyes way too wide and makes inappropriate and exaggerated facial expressions that just ruin it for me. The bit where she tried to scare Cisco was somewhat amusing, but still something was off about it.

This. I can't be mad at Cisco, because he did just spend the previous episode looking for the good in Killer Frost that he knows from his Caitlin, and he found some of it. I can't fault him for also worrying about the bad in our Caitlin, especially because it was clear from the beginning he was trying to help her. Also, I really liked them going off to speak to the other scientist, because I liked seeing them doing the investigative angle for once, and I'm always happy when they remember that people really don't like STAR Labs.

 

Am I reading too much into Felicity not returning Barry's calls if I assume it's just too hard to talk to the guy who recovered from paralysis in a week?

 

I thought it was a really good filler episode. I was glad to see Barry and Wally finally interact. All things considered, we've waited for that long enough. I would've liked more Diggle and Lyla, especially with people who aren't Barry, but I'm excited at the prospect of a costume update for Diggle (and I love that Cisco took the criticism in stride and is ready to change it). Good West-Allen family bonding. Love Barry owning up to his responsibilities and being honest and crying Grant is always a thing of beauty.

[bettername2come]

but never considering that he could go that way, despite the fact he's the one with the same powers as his Earth 2 doppelgänger, Caitlin doesn't.

 

But we've already seen Cisco worried about going evil before when he was hiding his powers. 

[Potanical Pardon]

We never see Hunter Zolomon standing up. I think E1 HZ is paralyzed. E2 HZ is Zoom. MITIM is Wally even though we saw the back neck hair. This way, we get the main characters reactions to a speedster Wally that isn't their Wally, and Barry gets some added motivation to hang out with Wally in case he ever manifests his speed powers which probably will involve his science fair experiment or whatever it is. I just hope he doesn't choose the alias, Turbine, that it seemed like they were pushing for this episode.

As to why HZ and Jay look the same...I think Teddy Sears is the look of HZ and not E2 Jay. We haven't met/seen real E2 Jay. Zoom is some combo of the concepts of Rival and Black Flash/Black Racer aka Death. Maybe the E2 paricle accellerator created Zoom/BF/BR from splitting E2 Jay, and one of his abilities is to change his face to those he has absorbed/absorbed the speed from. As for "dead" Jay...he's not a clone but an after-image of Zoom that also uses the HZ face. This is a speedster ability that few speedsters have.

In future seasons we'll probably get the real E1 HZ as Zoom with Eobard Thawne's Prof. Zoom to go against Barry and Wally.

[SpectreH]

There is a theory out there that the E2 Jay Garrick we know is really the E2 Everyman who decided to imitate The Flash by assuming his likeness and taking Velocity 6 which caused his cell degeneration.  That explains why his DNA is different than E1 Hunter Zolomon, because he's not really the same person.

Following this theory then, the Man in the Mask is the real E2 Jay Garrick and Zoom is E2 Jay Garrick from the future.  Zoom locked up his past self and when E2 Flash "disappeared", then Everyman assumed the likeness and tried to take up the slack by taking the Velocity 6 drug, but that caused his illness.  This might make sense because the E2 Jay Garrick that we know has never demonstrated *any* ability to access the Speed Force without use of a drug.  This theory does not explain why the Man in the Mask can't escape by himself though, if he is really the E2 Flash, unless Zoom has somehow disabled him.

Edited February 24, 2016 by SpectreH

[XtremeOne1]

it's too much to ask, but now I want Iris to talk to Barry about their dopplegangers and what that means for them.

 

 

I'm hoping Iris talks about what it means to HER. I'm ready to see a more aggressive, assertive Iris. Candice clearly enjoyed playing her, from all the interviews she's given about it, so I think it's time to see her Iris as a stronger investigator and after learning what she did in tonight's episode, now is the perfect time to build towards that. 

[DearEvette]

Harry is just a great character, he says typing the obvious.

 

 

I so agree. The Flash is doing for Tom Cavanaugh what Breaking Bad did for Bryan Cranston in my  eyes.  Namely, making me reevaluate him as an actor away from previous work and realizing how objectively good an actor he is.

 

 What I did like (fast and subtle as it was) was the way Barry told Iris about their dopples. He didn't seem sheepish or weird about it; he just confirmed it like it was a fact, like it was the most natural thing in the world. I interpreted it to mean that he's already realizing (or realized) that his feelings for Iris are still firmly in place. I'm willing to speculate that a good part of his extra-mopey mood since E2 is knowing that the relationship he wants exists on E2 (and that Iris can be a little firecracker).

 

I am willing to speculate a bit of this as well.  I mean he spent most of his life in love with Iris.  Maybe he was willing to put it aside because she wasn't able to reciprocate, but I can only imagine that his time with Iris-2 may have re-awakened those feelings.  Also, Iris'  'Our doppelgangers were married to each other?" might be the catalyst to also get her to start looking at him differently.  I need to go back and look at the ep last season where they kissed, but I think it was imminent disaster or Barry confessing his feelings finally that got Iris to see Barry in that way. 

[Ruby25]

I said I don't like Wally much, but in fairness to him in this episode, Barry was actually being pretty deliberately standoffish during that game, imo. He never acts like that, and it seemed to me more like he was the one who didn't like Wally being there, because Wally looked like he was trying. And then Barry's all "I think he doesn't like me." Dude, you were giving him the stink eye when he was asking you to play.

 

And then when he asked for help on the project, for Barry to admit he was trying to make it go faster (when we just saw before that he really didn't want to do this in the first place), and Wally asking why....that was pretty decent grounds for some hurt feelings on Wally's side, if he had intended for them to hang out and work on it together. But of course Barry then asks if he has a problem with him, instead of it seeming like the other way around.

 

Then Wally reveals his jealousy and attitude, and calls him a coward and all, but at first, Barry did not really behave well either. They were both being kind of bitchy towards each other in this episode.

[rogueprinzess]

I am willing to speculate a bit of this as well.  I mean he spent most of his life in love with Iris.  Maybe he was willing to put it aside because she wasn't able to reciprocate, but I can only imagine that his time with Iris-2 may have re-awakened those feelings.  Also, Iris'  'Our doppelgangers were married to each other?" might be the catalyst to also get her to start looking at him differently.  I need to go back and look at the ep last season where they kissed, but I think it was imminent disaster or Barry confessing his feelings finally that got Iris to see Barry in that way. 

 

Just because I love Barry's little bat of the eyelashes:

 

But yeah, the circumstances around the first WA kiss weren't ideal; Iris was already aware of Barry's feelings (and had just gotten over being awkward about it) but there was a tsunami headed towards CC and her father had been kidnapped and she was feeling jealous about Linda..just an emotional cocktail of doom. There's less drama around things now, but it's up to the show to decide what to do with that.

[slayer2]

I agree. The show needs to piss or get off the pot where WestAllen is concerned. It's a bummer because they have palpable chemistry and they really are wasting the opportunity for CP as a fantastic romantic lead. I feel like season 1 The Flash wouldn't have had this episode without a somewhat meaningful conversation between Barry and Iris about their doppelgangers on Earth 2 vs now, or at least some sort of emotional cliffhanger. I miss WestAllen, they seem to be hardcore pushing not just a sibling relationship but basically no relationship at all. This episode they didn't even have one scene together. They need to take some of his scenes away from him and Joe and give them to him and Iris because as a poster said upthread it's looking very much like Barry loves Joe more than he'll ever love any woman.

Edited February 24, 2016 by slayer2

[Ruby25]

I agree. The show needs to piss or get off the pot where WestAllen is concerned. It's a bummer because they have palpable chemistry and they really are wasting the opportunity for CP as a fantastic romantic lead. I feel like season 1 The Flash wouldn't have had this episode without a somewhat meaningful conversation between Barry and Iris about their doppelgangers on Earth 2 vs now, or at least some sort of emotional cliffhanger. I miss WestAllen, they seem to be hardcore pushing not just a sibling relationship but basically no relationship at all. This episode they didn't even have one scene together. They need to take some of his scenes away from him and Joe and give them to him and Barry because as a poster said upthread it's looking very much like Barry loves Joe more than he'll ever love any woman.

I think they're getting ready to piss, based on recent producers interviews, but at this point they need to jump in feet first and fast. Start showing that there's some romantic tension there like next episode or something, because it's taking way too long. I have a feeling they want to have something happen by season's end, but with eight episodes left, they really need to get on it.

[Terrafamilia]

So, not only is King Shark a giant man-shark, he's a giant man-shark in pants.

Giant particle-accelerator dark matter mutated pants!

PANTS!!

The Star Labs science team are being distracted by the whole man-shark thing and overlooking the truly amazing pants.

[catrice2]

I was bored with Earth 2, and last night was not any better. I had a hard time with King Shark and only watched for Diggle. Wally was annoying, as was Barry, and you would think that they would learn about telling things they should not.  Even still, the lack of reaction from what they were told about their Earth 2 counterparts was disappointing.  If there are really only 8 episodes left I am hoping they can salvage this season.  

 

The Zoom reveal was also underwhelming. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I am confused to why some think that the Man in the Iron Mask is Wally. Not being snarky. I mean, we saw a close-up of his eyes--his very blue, blue and scared eyes at the end.  And I don't think the actor that plays Wally has blue eyes.  The skin around the eyes was also of a white guy.

 

As for the scene with Cisco, Caitlin and that doctor? If Cisco hadn't intervened, they wouldn't have gotten anything.  Caitlin wasn't asking, but demanding, and very hostile and entitled, to boot.  

[FurryFury]

Wow, Cisco was really patronizing to Caitlyn. Poor Caitlyn, it sucks to be her. I would have very much preferred if it turned out that Cisco was just unknowingly channeling his fear of his own doppelganger through his fear of Killer Frost, but I guess that the show's writing isn't nuanced enough for that.

 

As expected, Zoom has Jay's face. It's still unclear if the other Jay's dead or not quite. The other question left is whether they are twins or clones (I'm leaning to the second idea, but I wouldn't put it past the show to use the Barry's twin idea from the comics in such a way, because this Barry doesn't seem to have a twin - or at least I hope he doesn't because it would seem really contrived, we already have Iris' long lost sibling). And speaking about Wally, I actually didn't dislike him as much this time. At least he was smiling and stuff and the end with Joe. I'm not a huge fan of Joe (and I was laughing out loud when he said that he doesn't play favorites or prefer Barry to Iris), but Jerkass!Wally was really annoying, so I'm glad we're past that. Still not interested in that storyline, though.

 

The man in iron mask seems to be black, so I'm betting it's Wally-2.

 

It was nice to see Lilah (been a while for me), but she and Diggle were basically glorified extras. Didn't care about the monster at all, too. And really, can we stop with pep-talks? It's getting out of hand.

 

Loved Barry's concern about Felicity. It was a really needed line.

Edited February 25, 2016 by FurryFury

[FurryFury]

I'd say the show overall puts Joe over any women in Barry's life, so it's not about the race, it's about the writers not really liking Iris or caring about Barry/his dads more than romances.

Edited February 25, 2016 by FurryFury

[slayer2]

It wasn't. Especially when Barry had no dialogue about his best friend being hurt, and wasn't shown to visit her in hospital. It's this show once again putting white women before Iris.

If the producers of Arrow want to make her the leading lady on Arrow its find by me, I don't watch that horseshit. But they can stop using Felicity onscreen and Emily offscreen to sideline Iris/Candice.

Agreed! I'm watching The Flash, I don't watch Arrow for the reason you mentioned. I don't need to hear fucking Felicity smoak mentioned in every goddamn episode.

Plus if he can ask after The blonde terror then it makes it even more glaring that he wasn't there when Iris woke up in hospital. Pathetic showing, show.

Edited February 25, 2016 by slayer2

[FurryFury]

Felicity has been established as Barry's friend. Him not saying anything about her paralysis or whatever (I don't watch Arrow but I keep up with the events) would be very out of character. If they've bothered to include Diggle and Lyla, Arrow characters, they can definitely bother to include one freaking line about Barry's friend who's going through a rough time.

 

Sometimes I understand why so many people from Arrow forum avoid these boards.

[FurryFury]

But it's not out of character for him to ignore his best friend in hospital?

 

Have I said it wasn't? I've written, like, a year ago that Barry doesn't treat Iris like his best friend. Moreover, it's been going on since the pilot, when he didn't tell her he was The Flash - while telling everybody else. I'm really surprised people only start noticing it now. 

 

As for Felicity, not only am I not an Olicity or Arrow for that matter fan (I actually agree about the awful boyfriend, she deserves better). I just feel like calling her "the blond terror" is really vicious and smacks of the female-versus-female debates that I hate. Why can't I like both Felicity and Iris (and also Sara and Thea and pretty much everybody else except Laurel because she objectively sucks)?

Edited February 25, 2016 by FurryFury

[jmonique]

Last week, when Iron Mask communicated the name "Jay Garrick" to the Flash team, it seemed reasonable to conclude that he was conveying his own identity. But in light of the big reveal this week, I think it's more likely he was trying to tell the group who Zoom is (he would think he's Jay if he has no reference point for other realities). So now I'm thinking Possibly Dead Jay is exactly who he says he is, Zoom is Hunter Zolomon/Earth-1 Jay doppelganger, and Iron Mask is someone else entirely. Possible?

 

That's what I was thinking -- perhaps Zoom is the E2 version of Eobard; he came from the future to attack and take the form of THAT Flash, as opposed to stealing E1 Harrison Wells' face and life. And the guy in the Iron Mask is Wally, Jay's sidekick.

 

[tennisgurl]

I really love the Star Labs coffee mugs. I wonder is Star Labs has its own gift shop?

 

I really do wish we could get more Iris/Barry. Its weird, because when the show started and they were more of an obvious OTP, I was more neutral on them (I saw them more as brother and sister), but as the seasons have gone on, I have warmed more and more to the idea of them as a couple. It helped seeing them as a super cute couple in Earth 2, plus my general love of Iris, and hope for her to get more screen time. Its clear Barry is still in love with her, now make something happen!

 

At least when Barry blames himself for things, they are things that are actually his fault, and he usually gets shaken out of his moping pretty quickly. I also desperately want to see a conversation between him and Iris about their marriage in Earth 2. 

 

Oh Caitlin, I`m sure you'll meet some other guy and move on from Jay in a few episodes! That was mean, I`m sorry. But, I really do feel for her. She lost Ronnie TWICE, and now this? But, I really didn't mind Cisco being worried about her. She really was acting off, and didn't seem to be getting better. He could have gone about his worries in a more sensitive way, but Cisco is kind of an awkward dork, so he came at the problem like an awkward dork. He could have been better about it, but I could see where he was coming from. Plus, this is a superhero universe, and they've seen at least a few normal people turn into villains after losing people. 

 

Always good to see Dig and Lyla. I always love seeing Dig`s reactions to all the weirdness that goes on in his life now. I feel like he just sits around sometimes going "I remember when the biggest stress in my life was finding out the idiot I have to body guard is an arrow shooting, kill happy vigilante. Those were the simple days". 

[rogueprinzess]

Overall the show has been having some serious issues with deciding what to edit for each episode. There were scenes shot with Barry visiting Iris in the hospital when she was hurt, but the showrunners chose to cut them. Felicity is a fun character and she and Barry are adorkable friends. I personally didn't think it out of character for Barry to ask DIggle, someone who potentially sees her on a regular basis, about a friend whose had a life altering injury (and who hasn't been returning calls). Barry likely would have asked Oliver if it had been him who'd come to CC. I think it adds to Barry's character that he inquired about Felicity which is fine, but of course, the show then cuts its own nose when it edits out scenes where Barry should be/is showing concern for Iris. They've shot tons of Westallen and Iris scenes that never made it to air. I guess my point is the pedestal that the both Arrow and Flash put Felicity on isn't Felicity or Barry's fault, it's AJK's obsession with her. If the showrunners knew what they were doing they'd find a way for Barry to be a good friend to Felicity AND a good best friend to Iris. It shouldn't be a competition. 

[Ruby25]

 

I really do wish we could get more Iris/Barry. Its weird, because when the show started and they were more of an obvious OTP, I was more neutral on them (I saw them more as brother and sister), but as the seasons have gone on, I have warmed more and more to the idea of them as a couple. It helped seeing them as a super cute couple in Earth 2, plus my general love of Iris, and hope for her to get more screen time. Its clear Barry is still in love with her, now make something happen!

 

At least when Barry blames himself for things, they are things that are actually his fault, and he usually gets shaken out of his moping pretty quickly. I also desperately want to see a conversation between him and Iris about their marriage in Earth 2. 

 

I've been wanting to see them together for a long time, but I've actually seen this sentiment expressed in other places recently too, and I think it's also due to the E2 episodes. If so, that was a pretty smart move on the show's part to show them as a married couple for two episodes and reintroduce it that way, because I think a lot of people may be on board now who were neutral before.

 

Although, tbh I think a lot of (male) fans just needed to see Iris actually being into Barry to like the idea of them together, and now they have, so yeah- that was a good move.

[millennium]

Had to laugh when the man in the first scene referred to King Shark as Bruce.  "Bruce" was the name of the highly unreliable mechanical sharks used in the making of Jaws.

 

I thought the King Shark scenes were well done.  Sure, King Shark looked like CGI, but it can hardly be avoided when generating a giant half-man/half shark.

 

I'm already wishing Wally West would just go away.   Why does this show insist on having one character too many?   I was glad for the cast reduction when Patty left, but then the slot was immediately filled by useless Wally.

 

I wouldn't mind if Iris and Barry never get together.   I get the feeling it would be a huge drag on the show.

Edited February 26, 2016 by millennium

[slayer2]

 

Sometimes I understand why so many people from Arrow forum avoid these boards.

 

Oh irony thy name is stan. 

 

Anyways, I agree with those who say that King Shark was a great villain, I really love that Flash doesn't shy away from the action, that might have more to do with budget than anything but with a terrifying Zoom last week and a very threatening King Shark this week and a fucking damn near Lionel Luther in "Harrison Wellses", I'm pretty happy with its villainous showings. Now if only it could get its relationships straight. 

 

I truly enjoyed having Diggle and Lyla stop by, Diggle always brings a sense of legitimacy to things I find which may bring the happy, peppy nature of the show down but was perfectly in keeping with this episode and his shock at Flash still is adorable. Love the Diggles, I feel like if they do another spinoff they should seriously consider David Ramsey, it's too bad The Suicide Squad movie is coming out effectively killing that idea because Diggle front and centre in the Arrowverse is always a good thing, DR is just such a strong, emotive actor, he really brings the quality of every scene up with him.

[GHScorpiosRule]

IF this show should bring in Lex Luthor, it better as FUCK be MichaelFucking!Rosenbaum. No one else will do!

 

Ahem.

 

Carry on.

[zannej]

I guess I didn't notice Jesse rolling her eyes. As for her not appreciating being on Earth1 and getting to explore a new world, from what I can tell she seems confined to STAR Labs. She had no choice about going, she'd just spent a few months in captivity away from friends/family. She probably desperately wanted to see her friends and other family members but instead she had to go to another world and was then told she might never be able to return. So she had to leave without saying goodbye and now she's stuck in a strange place that has less advanced tech than her world where she doesn't know anyone but the people at STAR Labs. I can see her just being caught up in her emotions and not realizing how cool it is that she is somewhere else and not taking advantage of the opportunity.

 

I lived overseas for quite awhile in my teens and I encountered some very spoiled bratty teens who had no appreciation for the fact that they were in another country experiencing other cultures. Some of them just whined all the time about how they wanted to go back home. I personally loved the experience but I know some classmates who felt that having to travel overseas ruined their lives.

 

I agree that Diggle is great. I love how he reacts more like a real person might to Barry's powers but that he also was able to give him some advice.

 

I wonder if the guy that claimed to be the Flash was actually Jay from Earth1 and instead of being a good guy on Earth1 he was a con man. And maybe he had a twin brother that was Hunter Zolomon. The guy on the bench could have been the real E1 Hunter Zolomon, or he could have been Zoom out of costume. I'm going to go with E2 Hunter as Zoom and E2 Jay as the man in the iron mask. Maybe for awhile, Zoom was pretending to be Jay while interacting with Caitlin and Dr. Wells and then he found E1 Jay and hired him to take his place and filled him in on things. Or maybe there are clones. I dunno. I don't think it was Everyman because he resumed a different form when he died and his DNA would have shown up differently.

[Oscirus]

Having just returned from my boycott of this show and just being caught up, the one positive that I will give this show is that at least Barry's finally able to defeat bad guys without having to be given  step by step instructions on how to beat the bad guy.

 

Also I hope that eventually Lyla and co. learn that an organization like Argus can't be run all sunshine and puppy dogs. I really do hope that the writers aren't lazy enough to make that mistake. But that's arrow's problem so I'll just move on.

 

Cisco being worried about Caitlin being bad? Are you kidding me? 1. Reverb was a lot more evil then Caitlin could ever hope to be and that was with his knowing your existence, 2. Caitlin hasn't exhibited any meta human powers. 3. You were able to convince said evil doppleganger to not only help you but to risk her life doing it.  Talk about concentrating on the wrong things from your trip to earth

 

Wells and Jesse are going to be a fun tag team against Cisco in the future. Please don't make a Cisco Jesse pairing like I fear that you're going to.

 

Joe are you kidding me about not having a favorite kid? You just gave a family heirloom to the person who wasn't your kid, but yea you don't play favorites.

 

Hey Iris if anybody should know how it feels to be the forgotten child, it's you. So how about you go talk to Wally, princess!

 

I have no problems with Wally. Joe just needs to back off and stop trying to force Barry on him and let Wally do his own thing. If anything, Wally's the only West who's not bowing down to the throne of Barry Allen, so I'm supporting him until further notice.

 

The zoom reveal was meh. There was no reason for him to pull off his mask other then for the sake of the audience.

[FurryFury]

Having just returned from my boycott of this show

 

So, why did you return? I was thinking about dropping the show after s1 finale, but I haven't because of LOT setup (a show I actually enjoy) and I think I'm not sorry. I kinda like s2 more than the second half of s1. Killing off Robbie and the forced WestAllen melodrama helped a lot.

 

Wells and Jesse are going to be a fun tag team against Cisco in the future. Please don't make a Cisco Jesse pairing like I fear that you're going to.

They'll probably go for Jesse/Wally, they seem to be close in age and everything. I haven't seen anything that could point to Cisco/Jesse. Other than Kendra being obviously off-limits and Peyton List (Golden Glider) being cast in some network show, so she could be unavailable. But they could always create a new LI for him. 

 

I also have a very slight suspicion that they may go for Caitlyn/Harrison Wells later, but that's probably just my interpretation.

 

Hey Iris if anybody should know how it feels to be the forgotten child, it's you. So how about you go talk to Wally, princess!

Absolutely! But the writing never acknowledges that Joe ignores Iris because of Barry. I hate it so much.

 

The zoom reveal was meh. There was no reason for him to pull off his mask other then for the sake of the audience.

Eh, I've gotten used to it. But yeah, you're right. He really could have mention that this thing's hot/itches like hell/etc.

[bettername2come]

It didn't bother me. Clearly the man in the iron mask already knows his identity. I can see him pulling off his mask when he gets home and there are no prisoners to conceal his identity from.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So, Harry and Jesse are sleeping on crappy bunks in some dark room somewhere? STAR Labs is HUGE! It has hundreds of rooms. Would it be so hard to convert a couple of rooms into bedrooms and get some decent beds? If Harry is worried about being too far from her, maybe they could get adjoining rooms or share a room for awhile and then move in to separate spaces.

Don't be ridiculous! If they did that, then where would they store all of those pallets full of Star Labs shirts and mugs?

[Oscirus]

So, why did you return? I was thinking about dropping the show after s1 finale, but I haven't because of LOT setup (a show I actually enjoy) and I think I'm not sorry. I kinda like s2 more than the second half of s1. Killing off Robbie and the forced WestAllen melodrama helped a lot.

 

Got bored watched one episode, got suckered back in. That being said, aside from the iris foolishness, they have managed to fix all the complaints I had about the show that caused me to stop watching so I'm happy I started again.

 

They'll probably go for Jesse/Wally, they seem to be close in age and everything. I haven't seen anything that could point to Cisco/Jesse. Other than Kendra being obviously off-limits and Peyton List (Golden Glider) being cast in some network show, so she could be unavailable. But they could always create a new LI for him.

 

I based it off of the fact that the writers like to create conflict and putting Cisco and Jesse together creates tension between Wells and Cisco.   Wally's probably going to have his big sis eventually introduce him to Linda. Which would cause conflict between Wally and Barry since Barry dated her first.

 

Absolutely! But the writing never acknowledges that Joe ignores Iris because of Barry. I hate it so much.

 

As do I. If the show didn't go out of its way to paint Joe as the father of the year every episode when he's clearly not, I'd be able to reduce that silliness to background noise.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Has the show ever said if Caitlin is an MD or PhD doctor? For some reason, I just assumed she was a PhD doctor since she works at Star Labs.

Edited February 29, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[bettername2come]

Given the fact that she says "I'm a doctor" and has provided a lot of medical treatment to the characters including surgeries (I think? She definitely said she couldn't operate here Lyla was shot in the first crossover, not she couldn't do it), I feel like she is definitely a medical doctor. But I wouldn't rule out her having both.

[NiTeWolf]

-  King Shark.  Jaws on Steroids... who also wears pants and talks.

 

-  I can count the number of Flash episodes, on one hand, where nobody cried.  And just a few fingers on that one hand , the number of total episodes where Barry himself wasn't the crier.  We get it, guys, GG is a good emoter.  But unless its in his contract and he's paid by the tear, the effect kinda gets muted after so much overexposure.

 

-  We can finally move past Wally's jealousy over Barry's part in the family.  'bout time.

 

-  "DON'T TALK ABOUT EARTH-2!!!!!!"   (three minutes later)  Blabbing everything about Earth-2.

 

-  So, we must be dealing with some form of Infinite Universes in Flash's overall mythology, huh?  I mean, we've seen (at least) 4 Jay Garrick doppelgangers now.  [yes, I'm saying I think IM!man is another JG]

 

In my opinion I don't want Harrison Wells and his daughter to leave earth 1. I feel like they are kind of getting closer but at the same time don't know the flash and his team but i feel like after all they have been through all of them would make one good team. The Flash and Harrison and his daughter.

In my opinion I don't want Harrison Wells and his daughter to leave earth 1. I feel like they are kind of getting closer but at the same time don't know the flash and his team but i feel like after all they have been through all of them would make one good team. The Flash and Harrison and his daughter.

In my opinion I don't want Harrison Wells and his daughter to leave earth 1. I feel like they are kind of getting closer but at the same time don't know the flash and his team but i feel like after all they have been through all of them would make one good team. The Flash and Harrison and his daughter.

[millennium]

What a letdown.  After all the mystery, the Big Bad turns out to be the Big Boring.   

 

How are we supposed to see Jay/Zoom as a menace after a whole season of yawn-inducing Jayness?

[Ruby25]

Yeah, that's probably the big problem with this reveal. Jay has been a total snoozefest- maybe now he'll be more interesting, but this has also been on Teddy Sears' performance. Kreisberg said they used him as a decoy because they knew fans wouldn't suspect the Jay Garrick character, but you still have to make him someone worth caring about.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Ruby25

[bettername2come]

I will say this: knowing Jay is Zoom makes the Reverse Flash seeing his helmet come out of the vortex and saying "That's my cue to leave" just a little funnier to me just because it's now an "oh, shit, bigger bad coming " reaction. Cuz Thawne probably knows Zoom's identity.

[caracas1914]

As to GG constantly crying, crying, and more crying.

Several possible solutions:

1) Another crossover with both The Arrow and SuperGirl bitchslapping the Flash and saying: "There's no crying in Super Hero-Dum!" Better yet get Tom Hanks to voice it as a new meta human.

2) Have the Flash use his super speed hands to wipe his eyes so nobody can see his tears falling, though the tearing up is another problem.

3) Have a super villain remove the Flash's tear ducts and his quest to regain them should last half a Season of action packed episodes.

4). A therapist should get on board and let the Flash have the epiphany he is not directly responsible for all the ills of the world.

[zannej]

I went over to a friend's house and his girlfriend was watching this episode. It got to the part where Zoom was revealed and I got to laugh at her saying "What the fuck?!" and then trying to figure out why there was more than one Jay.

 

I saw a fanfiction with an idea that was pretty cool. Lyla could use her ARGUS connections to make new identities for Harry and Jesse. They could have their last name changed to Chambers instead or something.

 

I wonder what they ended up doing with King Shark at the end.

[xyzzy]

PANTS!!

That was the very first thing my friend and I talked about during our post-Flash after action report. I was like, "Dude.. dude! Someone at ARGUS was like, we have a giant shark man in an aquarium, but his junk is all floppin' up against the glass. We must engage a giant manpants tailor immediately."

 

I am amazed at how much money The Flash spends on SFX for what I would normally consider to be throwaway villains. I mean, the SFX aren't good, but they use a lot of them.

Edited March 9, 2016 by xyzzy

[zannej]

A lot of the SFX are not so expensive anymore. Quite frankly, in a few minutes just regular fans can do better FX than the pros could do back in the 90s. Re-watching the old Flash series has given me some serious chuckles from the bad fx.

 

I did love the bit about the shark with pants. LOL.

 

Btw, my current theory on what is going on with Zoom and such: There are four of them. Identical twins from both earths. Only they are sort of reversed. E1 Hunter and E2 Jay are good guys while their counterparts are bad guys. The dude that Zoom appeared to kill was probably E1 Jay who was a con artist that Zoom tapped to do some dirty work. Zoom could have fed him just enough info to be convincing and he was probably secretly trying to get the formula to take back to Zoom. I'm guessing E2 Jay has been locked in that speedster containing cell with the mask on for quite awhile.

[driedfruit]

What a letdown.  After all the mystery, the Big Bad turns out to be the Big Boring.   

 

I laughed way too hard at this.

 

I assume they're trying to make Jay more interesting, but all they've achieved is making me less interested in the show. 

[CabotCove]

Finally caught up.

The West game night was heartwarming. Wally is really settling much better now, Keiynan is doing a good job. 

Didnt care about  two of the most pointless Arrow characters showing up on The Flash. I didnt mind Barry/Diggle talking about Felicity, but if they care to show this as a close friendship, Barry is a speedster it only takes a very few minutes to visit a friend in need. Not the first time, she has seemed like an after thought to him. On the other hand Flash was there when Iris had an accident, he is probably the one who took her to the hospital, sometimes less is more. They needed Wally to be by his newly found sister 's bedside, when a show starts to care only about two characters having scenes, that's when its in danger. I dont want WestAllen to be that kind of ship. 

Relieved to see Jesse leaving, Earth 2 character additions have been underwhelming. 

Well maybe Zoom reveal will make Jay interesting.

 

I just feel like calling her "the blond terror" is really vicious and smacks of the female-versus-female debates that I hate. Why can't I like both Felicity and Iris (and also Sara and Thea and pretty much everybody else except Laurel because she objectively sucks)?

 

Maybe others feel that Felicity objectively sucks too?. 

 

I could understand why Barry was moping. I could also understand why Wally was a little offended-- maybe thinking the moping was because of him or something. But Wally getting upset when Barry was trying to help didn't make much sense to me

 

Yeah they were both too self involved at first, towards the end they were both trying to make room for the other. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by WildcardC