S01.E14: Truth, Justice, And The American Way

[secnarf]

I agree with you. I don't think I phrased the first part of my post correctly. I meant to say I understand why they might choose Non over Astra, because his is a simpler story to write and tell, but I think Astra's was far more interesting. But I just read somewhere (so I don't know how true it is) that the real reason they killed her off is because the actress got a role on Broadway and they couldn't legitimately write Astra out of the story.

Yeah, I posted that article in the episode thread from last episode (the one where Astra dies). But apparently she's had that role all along, so it seems like poor planning, and I don't think the only way to deal with this was to kill her off. Besides, the actress herself is still on the show, as the Alura AI.

[Chicago Redshirt]

The Alura AI is super-useless.

 

It typically simply says that it does not have the information to respond to basic questions, and now in this episode literally said that it would self-destruct before explaining what "Project Myriad" might be. 

 

If the Alura AI is killed off, it would be of no loss. 

[Kromm]

The Alura AI is super-useless.

 

It typically simply says that it does not have the information to respond to basic questions, and now in this episode literally said that it would self-destruct before explaining what "Project Myriad" might be. 

 

If the Alura AI is killed off, it would be of no loss.

Are you sure "project" was part of it's pronouncement? I don't recall hearing it that way (and I've deleted the recording).

[jay741982]

I hope the alien professor comes back. He seemed nice.

 

I know we're supposed to hate Siobhan(and she'll turn out to be Silver Banshee) but that wink was sexy as hell.

 

A Lobo mention! I hope he does show up later.

 

Damn, Cat's story was heavy.

 

Geez, you know Kara's going to find out Alex killed Astra sooner or later.

 

So....next week Supergirl's fighting Mystique?

She's fighting Indigo, a female form of the Villain Brainaic

I don't get why Kara is so mad about Astra's death she was wanting to wipe out humans she was not an innocent

[stealinghome]

Generally if the show kept, in addition to Supergirl, Hank, Alex (with no dumbass secret plotline), and maybe Cat, and got rid of the entire rest of the supporting cast, it would be SO, SO, SO much better. I individually often like the other characters but they all just distract from one another's screentime and end up being plot devices more than characters most of the time.

This. I hope the show comes back for a second season, but they need to retool and cut the fat if they want to get any more seasons beyond that. Kara, Hank, Alex, and Cat can stay (oh and I guess Max if they want to carry over a recurring villain). The rest can GTFO. And whoever it is in the writers' room that thinks they should be pitching the writing at 12-year-old girl level can GTFO too.

 

It's so frustrating, because I feel like this show actually has quite a bit of potential, but it's like every one interesting thing they do is countered by three bland, predictable, cliche things.

[Winston Wolfe]

 

I'm not sure it's such an unusual name, at least anymore (it seems to me there have been quite a few Siobhans in popular and not-so-popular tv shows and movies in recent years), but that it doesn't sound the way it is spelled, at least to a native English speaker.

Guess we don't have a lot of folks here familiar with Chris Claremont's work on X-Men.  After 15 years of his run, Gaelic damn near became a second language for me.

 

I also liked the Professor. Kindly, gentleman scholar.  Loved the off-handed "I never learned how to fly on this world."  Think we'll be seeing him again soon.

[Chicago Redshirt]

In the episode, Kara and AI-Alura both talked only about "Myriad," but I believe Astra and Non previously referred to "Project Myriad."

[Kendra]

This episode was definitely not one of my favorites. I think because I loved the episode before this one so much, it made it difficult for this one to live up to same hype. My main problem was Kara seemed to be acting so out of character. I actually found her to be rather annoying this episode. Something I thought I would never say as my love for Kara (and MB's portrayal of her) is my absolute favorite thing about this show. Kara's anger toward Hank is just strange and I don't understand why Alex is even hiding the truth from her. I mean, what was Alex supposed to do? Let Astra kill Martian Manhunter?!! 

 

And the whole James wanting to reveal Supergirl's identity to Lucy ordeal really had me scratching my head. What!?? Why would he ever ask Kara for such a thing just so he can keep his relationship? It seems like such a ridiculous request, especially since he has been so wishy-washy in his feelings for Lucy. 

 

I did think the fight scenes were really cool and there were a few really beautiful shots with the way the lighting was used. 

[FurryFury]

The James/Lucy plotline is ridiculously bad. We never see why they like each other, she's simply there as a complication in the James/Kara love story, the problem is, there's no story to speak of, because James is too bland to really root for him. At least, Adam was connected to Cat, who's become a highlight (something I never expected) and had fantastic chemistry with Kara (plus, his backstory was pretty much a blank slate, so they could insert anything they wanted to make him plot-relevant). But James is just not needed on the show. Hell, even Winn is more needed - he's the tech geek and the confidante (when Alex is not available). James is simply the love interest, nothing more. That's not how main romances should be written.

 

As for the episode, I actually liked liked it. Very cheesy, but earnest. And I can't help but continue to want Max Lord to take a step back from full-on villainy, even if doubt he could be redeemed. He's just entertaining.

Edited February 25, 2016 by FurryFury

[Chicago Redshirt]

This episode was definitely not one of my favorites. I think because I loved the episode before this one so much, it made it difficult for this one to live up to same hype. My main problem was Kara seemed to be acting so out of character. I actually found her to be rather annoying this episode. Something I thought I would never say as my love for Kara (and MB's portrayal of her) is my absolute favorite thing about this show. Kara's anger toward Hank is just strange and I don't understand why Alex is even hiding the truth from her. I mean, what was Alex supposed to do? Let Astra kill Martian Manhunter?!! 

 

I am not sure how Kara was acting out of character, because her character is somewhat all over the place.

 

But if there is one consistent thread in this version of Supergirl and most versions of Supergirl and Superman, it is that they are opposed to killing, period. (Of course, it is easy to have that attitude when you are a nearly all-powerful alien, but even Batman supposedly abides by a no-killing policy). Add in the fact of Astra being related to Kara and Kara believing that there was still good in Astra, and I could see that Kara would be pissed at someone who killed her. 

 

Alex twice now was about to tell Kara the truth and then chickened out. 

[Kendra]

I don't think there is any way they will kill of James, or anyone else from the main cast (Kara, Winn, James, Hank, Alex, Cat). I also don't see them writing him out. 

 

Jimmy's "usefulness" seems to be that he's the link to Superman. They are constantly reminding us that he's friends with "the big guy." Which for me, is a reason why I'm not as fond of the character. I am one who doesn't care for the constant reminding that Superman is around. I'd rather this show NOT revolve around Superman's existence. It's one of my main dislikes about the show. I know there are fans who would rather Superman be shown and be an active part of the show, but I'm one who thinks completely the opposite of that! 

 

I'm just glad the show stopped saying "my cousin" every other line. It was becoming grating on my ears! 

[legaleagle53]

macgirl, on 25 Feb 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

I suppose that would be a new twist, a superhero with an abusive boyfriend. Though we shouldn't be surprised, Ali Adler writes this show.

 

What do you mean, "abusive"?  In what way has Winn been abusive towards Kara, other than to have the normal human reaction to being rejected after he put his heart out there only to have her stomp it to pieces because she can't handle human relationships?  They're still friends -- Winn just needed time and a little distance to heal after Kara rebuffed him, which even she understood after Alex spelled it out for her.   If anything, he's probably relieved now that he's seen just how incompetent Kara is at handling human relationships -- it's clear that she doesn't understand them and that he actually dodged a bullet when she turned him down.

[Chicago Redshirt]

YMMV, but Winn was what I would consider emotionally abusive before being "officially" rejected. Him saying, even in jest, that Kara must be a lesbian to explain why she wouldn't date him as well as acting like she and Jimmy committed a crime by hugging each other are the two examples that are foremost in my mind, but I'm sure if one were to rewatch, there'd be others.

 

I also think you're being a little harsh on Kara -- she didn't reject him because she can't handle human relationships. She has at least some friendships that suggests she can at least have those types of human relationships. Rather, she rejected Winn because she wasn't interested in him romantically. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Supergirl Loses Her Way In The Halls Of Justice
An encounter with a self-appointed one-man police force makes Kara question the DEO's ethics. And so does James.

[legaleagle53]

YMMV, but Winn was what I would consider emotionally abusive before being "officially" rejected. Him saying, even in jest, that Kara must be a lesbian to explain why she wouldn't date him as well as acting like she and Jimmy committed a crime by hugging each other are the two examples that are foremost in my mind, but I'm sure if one were to rewatch, there'd be others.

 

I also think you're being a little harsh on Kara -- she didn't reject him because she can't handle human relationships. She has at least some friendships that suggests she can at least have those types of human relationships. Rather, she rejected Winn because she wasn't interested in him romantically. 

 

And because she can't handle romantic human relationships.  Look at the way she botched things with Adam and the way she's gone about pining after Jimmy even though she knows he's got a girlfriend to whom he is at least trying to stay faithful.  The reason she gave Winn for rejecting him wasn't that she wasn't interested in him romantically; it was that she didn't want anything to change between them -- and that was the ONLY reason she gave him.  It's the typical reason given by someone who is afraid of destroying the friendship (and the working relationship) if the romantic relationship goes sour down the road, and she may well have been right as far as that was concerned. There's a reason that companies generally prohibit inter-office dating, after all.

 

No, if she meant to reject him because she just didn't feel that way about him, she should have said so directly rather than say that she didn't want anything to change between them.  The latter was a cop-out, in my opinion, and given the fact that she imploded when it came to starting a romantic relationship with Adam (not to mention the disastrous effect that it had on her working relationship with Cat) probably makes Winn thankful that Kara did turn him down.  He's better off without that emotional albatross around his neck.   Hell, he's even encouraging Jimmy now!

 

In other words, I'm squarely in Winn's corner on this one.  He was the one being emotionally abused by Kara's wishy-washiness, not the other way around.

Edited February 26, 2016 by legaleagle53

[brgjoe]

As I said before, you could drop Winn's character and I wouldn't miss him a bit.  That being said, I am in Winn's corner on this one.  I don't see where he's been abusive.  I don't blame him for taking some time to sort out his feelings after getting his heart squished earlier.  It's a natural reaction, IMHO.  And now he's back and apparently having no issues with being good friends with Kara.  So I guess I am not seeing where he's in the wrong here. 

 

Anyway, it's James Olsen that is getting on my nerves.  His moralistic statement to Kara about Max Lord doesn't make sense.  First it wasn't Kara who arrested him.  And she doesn't run the DEO.  And exactly where would Max get his "due process" anyway?  I can't imagine a trial where he would be charged with trying to kill Supergirl.  So just go ahead and release him?  So he can come after Supergirl again?  And maybe kill her this time?  Is that what you want, James?  And James, remember when he held you prisoner?  And threatened to due major bodily harm to you?  Sorry...I have no problem having Max Lord rot away there.  Him being out and about on his own now results in a major security breach, if nothing else.  Despite that blackmail threat from Alex, I don't trust him to keep his word at all.

 

And James -- I am glad you at least asked SG's permission and all before revealing her identity and stuff.  But it's not up to Kara to make sure your love life with Lucy will succeed.   It shouldn't be Kara's job to reveal her true identify to all your girlfriends.  Sorry, I would have told him to pound sand.  Especially since Lucy's dad is so anti-alien -- with the full force of the military at his grasp. 

 

Also wish Alex would just set the record straight about what happened with Astra.  Yeah, Kara would be pizzed for awhile.  But the longer it goes, the more upset she will be about it. 

[secnarf]

And because she can't handle romantic human relationships.  Look at the way she botched things with Adam and the way she's gone about pining after Jimmy even though she knows he's got a girlfriend to whom he is at least trying to stay faithful.  The reason she gave Winn for rejecting him wasn't that she wasn't interested in him romantically; it was that she didn't want anything to change between them -- and that was the ONLY reason she gave him.  It's the typical reason given by someone who is afraid of destroying the friendship (and the working relationship) if the romantic relationship goes sour down the road, and she may well have been right as far as that was concerned. There's a reason that companies generally prohibit inter-office dating, after all.

 

No, if she meant to reject him because she just didn't feel that way about him, she should have said so directly rather than say that she didn't want anything to change between them.  The latter was a cop-out, in my opinion, and given the fact that she imploded when it came to starting a romantic relationship with Adam (not to mention the disastrous effect that it had on her working relationship with Cat) probably makes Winn thankful that Kara did turn him down.  He's better off without that emotional albatross around his neck.   Hell, he's even encouraging Jimmy now!

 

In other words, I'm squarely in Winn's corner on this one.  He was the one being emotionally abused by Kara's wishy-washiness, not the other way around.

I don't see how anything in your first two paragraphs describes emotional abuse. She tried to let him down gently by saying she didn't want anything to change rather than "I'm not interested in you that way"? She tried to date someone else who she WAS interested in, was kidnapped and then realized it likely wouldn't work out? The writers decided to make Cat Grant behave like a toddler?

Emotional abuse is more than just doing something that a person doesn't like.

Add me to the list of people wanting Alex to come clean. I hate dramatic irony.

[Jordan27]

Supergirl 90210 should be the name of this show.  So much emotional turmoil, it plays like a soap opera more than an action hero show.

 

Kara getting upset at the new girl.  Could see it happening a mile away.  And why does she let her bait her? 

 

Jimmy's ridiculous let me tell my girlfriend who you are.   How about just ditch your needy girlfriend.

 

Jimmy's silly morality about letting Lord go.  He's borderline evil and SG's secret identity is important as is the gov't work.

 

Once again, a villain's power level is wildly variant depending on the plot. I don't remember MJ showing signs of super-strength per se, But the whole chain deal he used should have taken SG about 2 seconds to get out of, and there should have been no way for him to evade her. Similarly, he somehow knocks her out and takes her to his lair. If his weaponry was capable of doing that, why didn't he use it in the first place? And then when he fights her in the lair, why doesn't he use that weaponry to knock her out once more?

 

This is becoming a weekly event.  SG can never seem to beat anyone in the time it should take.

 

This show still has no chemistry between any of the characters, storylines are average at best and the writing is below average.

 

MB as Kara and SG is still the only thing the show has going for it.  I'm in for the season, but I may bow out for next year.

[Zuleikha]

I know we're supposed to hate Siobhan(and she'll turn out to be Silver Banshee) but that wink was sexy as hell.

I honestly think Siobhan is being a better assistant than Kara right now, so I'm a little bit Team Siobhan. I love Kara, but she needs to admit the truth to Cat and stop trying to be an assistant. I know it means a lot to her, but she can't do it! She has to leave when there's a DEO emergency, but she also needs to be at Cat's beck and call. Sure, she can travel at the speed of sound or faster, but that doesn't let her be in two places at once.

 

I've generally liked James and I thought he was right about the ethics of the DEO holding Max, but he's wrong to want to out Kara to Lucy. It's literally dangerous given Lucy's father, and also not at all the real problem in his relationship with Lucy. He needs to just admit to himself that he's more interested in Kara than Lucy. And then Jenna Dewan Tatum needs to be brought back in some kind of alterna-Lucy role that allows her to do her Pony routine from Lip-Sync Battle. 

 

So is that a really unusual name in the US?

Yes. And I say that as someone who lived in Boston. The main Irish wave of immigration to the US ended in the 1920s, so although there are many people proud of their Irish ancestry, there are very few with Gaelic-spelled names. 

[tennisgurl]

My favorite part of the whole episode was Kara telling Max he should watch Call the Midwife on Netflix. I giggled really hard at that. And its not a bad recommendation either. Max could learn a lot from the CtM gang.

 

I always love a The Wire reference, but The Shield would have been the better shout out.  

[Trini]

Nitpick: Jimmy James can just walk into the DEO now?? I know they needed him and Kara to talk face-to-face, but they could have had that conversation anywhere else.

[AllyB]

I don't get how "Siobhan" is pronounced the same as "Shavoun." Ditto "Sean"/"Shawn." Nice that Kara now has her own arch nemesis at Catco.

Because it's a different language and in other languages letters have different pronunciations. Just as the French phrase 'et voilà' is pronounced 'eh wol-a' rather than 'eht v-oil-a' as it reads in English. In Irish the letter S is pronounced like the English SH and BH is pronounced in a similar way to the English V. While the A in both Siobhán and Seán is not actually A but Á which gives the long sounding - AWWW. Shavoun and Shawn are just Anglicizations of Irish words though tbh, they fail to capture the proper nuance of the pronunciation.

 

If you've ever watched the comedy Catastrophe there is a great scene in the second season based around the pronunciation of the name; Muireann.

Edited February 29, 2016 by AllyB

[statsgirl]

I don't get why Kara is so mad about Astra's death she was wanting to wipe out humans she was not an innocent

I think Astra was the only one who didn't want to wipe out humans.  Non and Indigo are full gung-ho with it.

 

Nitpick: Jimmy James can just walk into the DEO now?? I know they needed him and Kara to talk face-to-face, but they could have had that conversation anywhere else.

Since he was in there for Kara's dream episode, I guess he's allowed in now.

 

I don't think entertainment shows should go a lot of politics, but James' speech to Kara could have been, and maybe was, a metastatement on American today.   They started it when Max Lord was locked up and he said that the American way seems to be about locking up people for indefinite time without trial.  It was an obvious reference to Guantanamo but in this episode they kicked it up a notch and referenced Guantanamo directly:

 

 

Kara: What I know is that we've caught the most dangerous man on the planet

James:  You're holding humans and you're completely unaccountable. Don't you see this is why Max Lord hates you?

[snip}  What I mean is he's terrified by you because of your ability to do exactly what you're doing to him right now..... when you have more power than any human army on Earth, you have to be better than this.  Kara, it's never going to come down to a battle of strength or even smarts or even wills with you. Ultimately it's going to be a battle of values, your values versus your enemy's and if you're willing to abandon those values, what makes you better than Max Lord [insert name of current US enemy]?  I mean, is this the kind of hero you want to be?

Kara:  I'm the kind of hero who believes in doing what needs to be done to keep the world safe.

James: Well the Supergirl I know believes in truth and justice. Kara, I don't recognize you like this. [snip] Stronger together you said, but this is not strength.

 

 

It's ironic that this episode aired the week that Obama once again tried to close Guantanamo, and the Republican candidates responded by saying that they would will it up again with terrorists from ISIS, and Trump advocated killing the families of terrorists, which would be a war crime btw but then holding people for 15 years without a trial having taken away their POV cards, many of whom are found to be innocent but still held, could be considered one too.

[John Potts]

I had real problems with the plotline in this episode, because the whole Max Lord situation makes no sense. Firstly, there is no way that "Hank Henshaw" would ever admit him into prison in the first place. Secondly, how exactly did Max's people not know where he was? He wasn't stunned and dragged into a dark alley, Alex marched into his office in broad daylight and arrested him! Did she manage to evade every one of his security/secretaries on the way in or were they all just out for lunch when Alex turned up? So taking him prisoner was stupid in the first place. But I just had to address this:
 

Quote

 

Jordan27 Jimmy's silly morality about letting Lord go.  He's borderline evil and SG's secret identity is important as is the gov't work.

 

 

I'm sorry, you're saying a government agency should have the right to arrest and then detain without trial and that people who disagree are advocating "silly morality"? Saying that the DEO and/or Supergirl should have the right to determine Max Lord is evil and should therefore be free to punish him without any check is... pretty much what caused King John a certain degree of bother in England in 1215 and caused some fairly significant political reforms.

As for the Villain of the Week, I was disappointed at the way TPTB copped out on the villain they saved: all the guys executed were (apparently) murderous but the Professor not only was "only" a drug dealer, but he even regretted his actions (though that may be only because he was facing imminent death). Oh and just in case we didn't get that he was going to be saved, the Master Jailer then was going to follow up with executing Kara. It would have been more powerful (IMO) if the Master Jailer had only one sentence and had killed a few relatively harmless villains - only the one Kara actually freed was in fact a murderer.

Quote

Athena5217  I hate to say it, but I side with Assistant Number One on this issue. Your co-workers do not want to hear your conversations, Kara.
Kromm It's passive-aggressive (and was I think successfully shown as such in the episode).

 

If that's the case, I can't help feeling the world would  be a better place if more people were passive aggressive!

[Lazlo]

I wish it didn't take this show so long to cross the Atlantic.

I'm biased actually being Irish but I wish they'd kept Siobhan Smythe as Irish. Irish characters aren't exactly super numerous on American TV so to take a character who was Irish in the source material and turn her into an American feels disappointing. I suppose at least this way I won't have to hear my accent mangled - that isn't a slight against Italia Ricci, who for all I know can handle the accent, just that Hollywood has a long and noble history of bad Irish accents.

(I also prefer Siobhan to be good, as she is in the more recent comics but since her comic role is basically taken by Alex I can understand why they went the rival route.)

Otherwise I liked the episode a lot. Cat's talk with Jimmy was very nicely done, even if I thought he was out of line telling Kara he had to out her identity to his girlfriend.

[Chicago Redshirt]

IIRC, Alex arrested Lord without consulting Henshaw, and so when she showed up with Lord, Henshaw freaked out a little. 

Alex and co. pose as FBI/Homeland Security agents, rather than DEO. The public does not know that the DEO exists. So Max's people would not likely have a way of knowing to look for Max at a DEO facility.

As to the morality question, I would say that it is more complicated than "ordinary humans should never be locked up indefinitely without trial or other rights." One could make the argument that Max is uniquely dangerous and obviously guilty. It seems a random distinction between locking up ordinary humans indefinitely and locking up aliens indefinitely in essentially the same manner.

[The Crazed Spruce]

On ‎2016‎-‎05‎-‎08 at 8:33 PM, Lazlo said:

I'm biased actually being Irish but I wish they'd kept Siobhan Smythe as Irish. Irish characters aren't exactly super numerous on American TV so to take a character who was Irish in the source material and turn her into an American feels disappointing. I suppose at least this way I won't have to hear my accent mangled - that isn't a slight against Italia Ricci, who for all I know can handle the accent, just that Hollywood has a long and noble history of bad Irish accents.

As a Newfoundlander, I can empathise. :)

[Lazlo]

On 5/10/2016 at 1:13 AM, The Crazed Spruce said:

As a Newfoundlander, I can empathise. :)

Hah, yes, I can imagine you must see a lot of bad examples of that accent. :)

I might not be so bothered but I've seen this exact thing happen before - X-Men First Class turned Sean Cassidy (Banshee) into an American.

[John Potts]

On ‎09‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 10:06 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Alex arrested Lord without consulting Henshaw, and so when she showed up with Lord, Henshaw freaked out a little. 

Alex and co. pose as FBI/Homeland Security agents, rather than DEO. The public does not know that the DEO exists. So Max's people would not likely have a way of knowing to look for Max at a DEO facility.

Yes, that's my recollection too - so why are his people going "We have no idea where he is?" (or at least, stonewalling on what's really happening, since Max Industries are apparently saying nothing). As far as they're concerned, government agents walked in and arrested their boss. Since Max is pretty much "Free enterprise good, government bad", he'd have no problem with putting out an anti government line. And if more cautious voices suggest that they might like to check if they were REALLY Homeland/FBI Agents, then you say, "Agents CLAIMING to come from the FBI..." because that would be 100% accurate as well as consistent to the corporate line. Clearly, the FBI would deny they'd arrested him, but that would be the initial claim.

And yes, I'm aware that it was Alex and not John who arrested Max Lord, but his response to Max turning up at the DEO should have been to take him aside and go to Alex "WTF! Are you INSANE!?" and say to Max, "I'm sorry, there's been some terrible misunderstanding" and let him go (preferably without letting him see the base at all). As it is, he's ended up with the worst of all possible worlds: Max now knows (for sure) that the DEO exists, knows where its base is and has a very real (and justifiable) grudge against them. Loyalty to your subordinates even when they screw up is all very well (and certainly happens IRL), but it's worrying when it trumps loyalty to your actual purpose. If (as Alex says here) they have enough evidence to bury him, then you put him on trial. Detaining people "In the interests of public safety" is exactly what fascist states do, not what democracies do.

Maybe that makes me a naïve liberal (obviously, as a liberal I would defend your right to say so). And maybe you stopped reading this post twenty lines up!

[Chicago Redshirt]

If the government arrested, say, Jeff Bezos from Amazon, there are two ways I could see it going down. One is broadcasting from every possible platform that the arrest had been done. The other is playing it down and saying nothing. 

A few reasons the latter might happen IMO:

1. The organization might literally be like a snake with its head cut off. Without the central figure, it might not know how to respond, and in the absence of direction, it might be thought as better to say nothing.

2. Fear of reactions harming the company in the public eye/marketplace. If the mind behind everything at a company is under arrest for unspecified rumors, it seems like it would be very risky for the stock price and the company's future.

3. Fear of future government retaliation. If they can scoop up Max Lord, they can certainly pick up Pencil-pusher #12.