Justice League (2017)

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

Last month. I think it has gone from "just finish what you wanted to release 3 years ago" to  "we're desperate for content so just keep filming, whatever you need!" I won't be a bit surprised if HBO Max spreads it out over 4 months to keep people subscribing.

I’m not sure that I agree. From a business standpoint it’s a poor decision. Seems more like giving Snyder what he wants because it’s already been announced and their stuck. Adding new scenes isn’t really going to increase the audience that is interested in this. Every new announcement narrows the audience. Spreading this out would require really good word-of-mouth to be successful. 

[Bruinsfan]

They'd do better to earmark $4 million of their new budget to sweepstakes prizes that would go to four HBO Max subscribers, with one being announced after the airing of each installment.

[MarkHB]

Grace Randolph And Her Hair interview Zack Snyder... for all the fuss the new shooting is getting, apparently it's only going to amount to 4-5 minutes of screentime. I'd really love to know the budgeting breakdown for fixing up this film, between rendering, editing, scoring, cast, crew and COVID prep for the shooting, etc.

 

 

[Bill1978]

Is it wrong reading this news that I hope the 5 minutes ends up being similar to all those cameos in the Arrowverse crossover even Crisis on Infinite Earths. In the end a lot of talk about characters 'returning' etc for such little screen time and general purpose.

[Featherhat]

Apparently it's 4-5 minutes of new footage but the "new footage" to viewers will be immense because duh, this is now a mini series not a film and they're adding in pretty much everything Snyder ever shot. 

This might end up amazing and a big success for HBO Max but since I didn't like MOS or BvS very much I have a hard time getting excited for it or Synder's vision which has now taken on some mythical proportions to some fans I know. Everything you ever didn't like about Joss, MCU, studio interference, run times, jokes and anything bad anyone ever said about DC will be repudiated in this glorious 4 hours. Which, no to me. 

 

[MarkHB]

I think it's safe to say that, whatever else is in there, two things will NOT be: Flash will not fall onto Wonder Woman's boobs (which, apparently, Gal Gadot refused to film... that was her stuntwoman), and Martha Kent will not refer to Lois as "thirsty."

I've said since it came out that I thought that, by itself, Justice League is an entertaining movie.  But, thematically, tonally, stylistically... as the conclusion of the trilogy that started with MoS and BvS, it was wildly off the mark and (if you liked what the first two were doing) disappointing. It is very much a case of "one of these things is not like the others."

[BetterButter]

 

[starri]

If you told me this was a parody, I would believe you.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, BetterButter said:

 

I feel like I’m looking at one of those magic eye pictures. All the money to make a bad design blend into the background. 

 

6 hours ago, starri said:

If you told me this was a parody, I would believe you.

Yep. It’s like a bad fan video. 

[JessePinkman]

Apparently it DOES take a lot of money to look that cheap. 

[VCRTracking]

It's basically now SUCKER PUNCH with DC superheroes.

[xaxat]

I really think it was a mistake to release this in IMAX aspect ratio.

Because, you know, home TVs aren't IMAX theaters.

[MarkHB]

I think it's interesting that, if you watch the corners of the trailer, you can sometimes see the actual curved corners of the film frame.

As far as the aspect ratio goes, I watched a letterboxed movie last night; I don't think the pillarbox is going to bother me. It is how he originally shot and framed it.

Edited November 24, 2020 by MarkHB

[BetterButter]

 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, BetterButter said:

 

He sounds delusional. Does he know the goal isn’t to appeal to the narrowest audience possible?

[starri]

No.  No to the power of no.

I get that they want to bring eyeballs to HBO Max, but a cadre of fanboys who may keep the service for a month isn't a long-term subscriber base.

[cambridgeguy]

On 12/14/2020 at 8:00 PM, Dani said:

He sounds delusional. Does he know the goal isn’t to appeal to the narrowest audience possible?

That ship has sailed.  I'm sure in his mind that was the entire point of the Whedon reshoot, and it was a failure.  Snyder's not a Ron Howard type to go in and smooth out some rough edges, he's going to do things the Zack Snyder way.

Speaking of which, I wonder how many people are actually going to approach this with an open mind.  No matter what ends up being shown the pro-Snyder camp will declare it a masterpiece while the anti-Snyder camp have already pre-written their spiel about what a miserable slog it is.

[Guest]

Zack Snyder's Justice League Is No Longer a 4-Part Release

Now it’s a 4 hour movie premiering sometime in March. I still don’t get the perception that this is going to be a completely different movie. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Guest

[Bill1978]

I'm guessing the contracts signed by many involved in the production of a MOVIE prevented the cut being presented as a TELEVISION SERIES, and that WB/HBO realised it would be cheaper to dump it as a 4 hour movie than to pay all that extra money to the workers as dictated by the contacts.

[MarkHB]

14 hours ago, Dani said:

Zack Snyder's Justice League Is No Longer a 4-Part Release

Now it’s a 4 hour movie premiering sometime in March. I still don’t get the perception that this is going to be a completely different movie. 

The broad strokes of the film - the League comes together to fight Steppenwolf, who sets up shop in Eastern Europe to gather the motherboxes and conquer the world - will be the same.  About a half hour of the theatrical version - probably the history lesson, the opening montage, a few scenes like Bruce meeting Barry and the gathering with Commissioner Gordon - will still be in this one.   But even with those similarities, the tone, the score, the details and fullness of the storytelling, will all be less rushed, less insulting to the characters (Superman's fake jaw, the cheesy sexual innuendo), and actually feel like the completion of the trilogy that started with MoS and BvS.

[Guest]

Just now, MarkHB said:

The broad strokes of the film - the League comes together to fight Steppenwolf, who sets up shop in Eastern Europe to gather the motherboxes and conquer the world - will be the same.  About a half hour of the theatrical version - probably the history lesson, the opening montage, a few scenes like Bruce meeting Barry and the gathering with Commissioner Gordon - will still be in this one.   But even with those similarities, the tone, the score, the details and fullness of the storytelling, will all be less rushed, less insulting to the characters (Superman's fake jaw, the cheesy sexual innuendo), and actually feel like the completion of the trilogy that started with MoS and BvS.

Yes, I am aware of the details and I still think it is a bizarre expectation. As you say, it’s still going to have the same basic characters and the same basic plot. The best case scenario is a better version of the same movie. Of course I’m also of the opinion that if you need 4 hours to tell a complete superhero movie your plot probably has massive problems. 

This tweet is an example of what I’m seeing online and do not understand. 

 

 

[MarkHB]

On 1/18/2021 at 4:08 PM, Dani said:

Yes, I am aware of the details and I still think it is a bizarre expectation. As you say, it’s still going to have the same basic characters and the same basic plot. The best case scenario is a better version of the same movie. Of course I’m also of the opinion that if you need 4 hours to tell a complete superhero movie your plot probably has massive problems. 

This tweet is an example of what I’m seeing online and do not understand.

I think the biggest real difference is that this one will,  hopefully,  feel like the people who made it  actually cared, unlike the other. So far as the runtime goes,  I'm willing to bet that a fair amount of the character development stuff we'll see would have been moved to Part 2 in the original plan.  But,  there isn't one of those anymore  and it's not like they have to worry about turning a theater, so might as well use it all. 

That tweet,  though?  The DC fan has his head in the sand and the Marvel fan is being a deliberate asshole, so I've got no time for either of them. 

 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, MarkHB said:

But,  there isn't one of those anymore  and it's not like they have to worry about turning a theater, so might as well use it all. 

Because they still should want people to watch and a 4 hour runtime makes that extremely unlikely. It’s great for the people who love the other Snyder movies and bad for everyone else. 

[MarkHB]

Since it's on HBO Max, people can break up the viewing any way they want. Is it really more daunting than Netflix dropping 8 1-hour episodes?

We now know when we'll be able to find out...

Press release with details on authorized international viewing is here; it also contains this synopsis:

Quote

In ZACK SNYDER’S JUSTICE LEAGUE, determined to ensure Superman’s (Henry Cavill) ultimate sacrifice was not in vain, Bruce Wayne (Ben Affleck) aligns forces with Diana Prince (Gal Gadot) with plans to recruit a team of metahumans to protect the world from an approaching threat of catastrophic proportions. The task proves more difficult than Bruce imagined, as each of the recruits must face the demons of their own pasts to transcend that which has held them back, allowing them to come together, finally forming an unprecedented league of heroes. Now united, Batman (Affleck), Wonder Woman (Gadot), Aquaman (Jason Momoa), Cyborg (Ray Fisher) and The Flash (Ezra Miller) may be too late to save the planet from Steppenwolf, DeSaad and Darkseid and their dreadful intentions.

Also, merch (including food) will be available:

Quote

The release of ZACK SNYDER’S JUSTICE LEAGUE will be supported across WarnerMedia and DC platforms, including a soundtrack release on WaterTower Music, a curated collection from Warner Bros. Consumer Products available exclusively at DC Shop at https://shop.dccomics.com/, and a first-of-its-kind, immersive, at-home dining experience in the US and UK with Wonderland at Home (Wonderlandathome.com).

The dining experience is, I kid you not, a Motherbox lunch.

Edited January 29, 2021 by MarkHB

[Guest]

5 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Since it's on HBO Max, people can break up the viewing any way they want. Is it really more daunting than Netflix dropping 8 1-hour episodes?

 

Yes. Series have built in stopping points and movies don’t. If I’m watching a series I will, at least, finish the first episode and I see the conclusion the way the showrunner intended. When I watch a movie I’m more likely to stop watching at a point that isn’t holding my interest making me less likely to come back later and watch again. I’m also a lot more selective in the movies I watch than in the tv shows I watch. A 4 hour movie would need to have really good word of mouth for me to even consider watching it and be something I already had an interest in. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

48 minutes ago, Dani said:

A 4 hour movie would need to have really good word of mouth for me to even consider watching it and be something I already had an interest in. 

The only 4+ hour movie that was and continues to be worth it for me (and that I can rewatch) is 1982’s Gandhi.

Snyder isn’t even close to that masterpiece.

And I’ll repeat what I posted when I saw the 2017 release of this movie-it was Pure Garbage.

[MarkHB]

Post by the VFX Producer for ZSJL:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKpstpujjlC/

[Bruinsfan]

Quote

Zack knows what he wants and is the first to admit if it is not working.

I assume she's referring only to visuals/VFX and not narrative, characterization, and tone (for which we have ample evidence of Snyder digging his heels in and doubling down over things that aren't working).

[MarkHB]

Zack Snyder's Justice League is officially "Rated R for violence and some language." (MPAA certificate #53052, no link because it's just in the weekly PDF).

Also, this article reports two interesting points from a podcast re: why it's now a single 4-hour movie rather than 4 parts.  One, since WB decided to drop their entire 2021 schedule on HBO Max they didn't need to stretch ZSJL out so much. Two, because splitting it that way meant that it became a TV series rather than a feature, and the cast wanted more money because that's how the contracts work. WB was actually negotiating that with the various agents until Point One happened and made it unnecessary.

 

[BetterButter]

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by BetterButter

[starri]

That's more or less exactly the trailer I was expecting.

[Chyromaniac]

Having Jared Leto’s Joker say “we live in a society...” is peak Snydercut.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Chyromaniac

[krankydoodle]

[Racj82]

Nothing Snyder plans to do will ever change the fact that this movie shouldn't exist. Not the way it was set up.

They did the death of Superman two movies in.

TWO MOVIES.

Why would his death have the impact Snyder will try to make it out to be after this short of time and after so much of the population didn't even really like him. I know he clearly saved people and died saving the world. Yada Yada. But, they're going to try to put Iron Man level of importance on Superman's death and it's too soon.

It's trying to establish too many characters in one movie.

It was always trying to set up a universe that was ill conceived and thought out.

Much like the B vs S Snyder cut, I believe, narratively, it will be a better movie. More structured. But, the problems with the movie spread farther than the base narrative.

I'm always way beyond tired of people saying Marvel fans give all the movies a pass good or bad. Super fans do that for everything. It's not a marvel thing. See Snyder fans who defend all his flawed dc movies. People will not shut up about how bad Age of Ultron is and that movie isn't even that bad. Not even close. Thor 2. The Iron Man sequels. For many, the first avenger. Marvel movies don't get more passes than anyone else. At the base level, marvel has found a formula that makes it hard to truly hate. The bad movies just kind of wash over you. Not make you mad or fuming. 

Edited February 15, 2021 by Racj82

[cambridgeguy]

25 minutes ago, Racj82 said:

I'm always way beyond tired of people saying Marvel fans give all the movies a pass good or bad. Super fans do that for everything. It's not a marvel thing. See Snyder fans who defend all his flawed dc movies. People will not shut up about how bad Age of Ultron is and that movie isn't even that bad. Not even close. Thor 2. The Iron Man sequels. For many, the first avenger. Marvel movies don't get more passes than anyone else. At the base level, marvel has found a formula that makes it hard to truly hate. The bad movies just kind of wash over you. Not make you mad or fuming. 

It helps that the first few MCU movies (aside from the Incredible Hulk, which everyone seems happy to ignore) were generally well received.  Once you have that goodwill most fans are happy enough to excuse the occasional stinker as long as you can follow up with something good (hey, no one's perfect!).  On the other hand, if you start off on the wrong foot then every success is a happy accident (not even an idiot could mess this up) while continued failures are yet more proof of incompetence.

And I get the feeling most of the reviews for the Snyder cut might as well be written now since I doubt the actual movie will change many minds. 

[VCRTracking]

I initially thought putting the Joker in a story about Darkseid was unnecessary fan service but now it looks like he'll actually  be the voice of whatever thematic statement Snyder will be making and that is hilarious.

Edited February 14, 2021 by VCRTracking

[Racj82]

52 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I initially thought putting the Joker in a story about Darkseid was unnecessary fan service but now it looks like he'll actually  be the voice of whatever thematic statement Snyder will be making and that is hilarious.

He will also clearly just be a part of Batman's nightmare. 

I love how hard Snyder is using the nightmare sequence to just squeeze in as much fan service and concepts as he can.

[Spartan Girl]

Well, gawrsh, just when I thought I couldn’t care less about this movie, they add in Jared Leto and make me even LESS excited. As I said before, HARD PASS.

[Sakura12]

9 hours ago, BetterButter said:

 

They have 4 hours of footage and that's the trailer they put out. I have no idea what its even about. I know a trailer isn't supposed to give everything away but its supposed to let me know the basic story, especially if its supposed to be completely different from the other one. 

[xaxat]

I only "director's edit" movies that I like. 

I didn't like this movie and don't see how adding two additional hours of content would change that. 

[Peace 47]

As much I enjoy the jokes that drag the Snyderverse (the funniest podcast I’ve ever heard is “We Hate Movies” complete and utter evisceration of Batman v Superman—I still listen to it sometimes on Spotify), I will probably watch this because I already have HBOMax, I like Gal Godot’s Wonder Woman a whole heck of a lot, and I was always sad that the original film cut out Lois and Clark’s official engagement that was revealed in the trailers for the original movie (but everyone thought was a dream at the time).  I want to see the full version of that scene that didn’t make the final original cut (Clark:  “I’ll take that as a ‘yes’.”  Lois:  “What?”  Clark:  “The ring.”)  I assume we’ll get that this time.  If not, just picture me screaming like Superman at the beginning of this new trailer.

I personally find Zach Snyder to be too pretentious, and on the whole (with exceptions), I don’t really enjoy his filmmaking aesthetic, but in light of the revelations about how Joss Whedon treated Ray Fisher and the cast of Buffy, if people come away from this slamming Joss Whedon’s version all the more, I’ll be okay with that.  And if this is a stinker on the level of Batman v Superman (my view; I know some love it), I’ll just enjoy the jokes and memes.

[VCRTracking]

Whedon's version is really DC head Geoff John trying to adapt "War" his New 52 Justice League origin story.  The problem is "War" sucks. It's one of the worst things John's has ever written. Hal Jordan is an unlikeable asshole, Batman does stupid  things like revealing his identity to him, Darkseid has no characterization and Cyborg is better as a Teen Titan. So you have what was already a bad story and now you add a dead Superman and the fact that Bruce was an unreasonable maniac in the previous movie but did a 180 just because he and Superman's mom's have the same name. I think having to deal with all that hampered Whedon more than trying to match Snyder's visual style.

[Racj82]

9 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

Whedon's version is really DC head Geoff John trying to adapt "War" his New 52 Justice League origin story.  The problem is "War" sucks. It's one of the worst things John's has ever written. Hal Jordan is an unlikeable asshole, Batman does stupid  things like revealing his identity to him, Darkseid has no characterization and Cyborg is better as a Teen Titan. So you have what was already a bad story and now you add a dead Superman and the fact that Bruce was an unreasonable maniac in the previous movie but did a 180 just because he and Superman's mom's have the same name. I think having to deal with all that hampered Whedon more than trying to match Snyder's visual style.

Yeah it wasn't Whedon's movie. He was just put in to steer a sinking ship. I wouldn't judge anyone who took that movie on creatively.

With the Snyder cut, this is all him for better or worse. If it sucks to me, the blame is squarely on him.

 

[MarkHB]

I don't believe Joker is in a dream sequence.

Also,  regarding the "do I want to commit to 4 hours" question,  Deborah Snyder recently said that the film has,  effectively,  chapter breaks,  and that HBO Max will make them selectable in the menu. So,  if you want to break off it's easy to come back. 

I've also seen that,  in theatrical showings,  it'll have a 10 minute intermission. 

 

[Bruinsfan]

6 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Yeah it wasn't Whedon's movie. He was just put in to steer a sinking ship. I wouldn't judge anyone who took that movie on creatively.

I would. As many problems as I have with Snyder's movies, I doubt he'd have made the Flash a comic relief character with cringeworthy dialog and expressions at ever turn. And I'm quite certain he'd never have tried to film the slapstick Flash-faceplants-in-Wonder-Woman's-cleavage shot that Whedon threw a hissyfit over when Gal Gadot refused to be a part of it and he had to resort to using her stuntwoman instead.

[Racj82]

4 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I would. As many problems as I have with Snyder's movies, I doubt he'd have made the Flash a comic relief character with cringeworthy dialog and expressions at ever turn. And I'm quite certain he'd never have tried to film the slapstick Flash-faceplants-in-Wonder-Woman's-cleavage shot that Whedon threw a hissyfit over when Gal Gadot refused to be a part of it and he had to resort to using her stuntwoman instead.

My point is that the Justice League we saw were two movies and styles smashed together. It wasn't a Whedon movie OR a Snyder movie. It was a movie by committee with obvious flavoring of both men in it.

And let's not act like Flash being comic relief is a Whedon thing. He's usually the silliest of the main League members. Doesn't mean he isn't also brave, strong and heroic. And even before Whedon came on, it was clear they were going to play Barry more awkward within the group. Something like Aquaman not knowing he's sitting on the lasso while talking or Batman commenting on his condition while lying on the ground are the elements that feel the most Whedon and won't be here. 

[shrewd.buddha]

The Snyder "trailer" that was released on Valentine's Day was so very, very quintessentially Zack Synder:  A series of images that are iconic, dramatic  and larger-than-life (emphasis purposely emphasized) .... but also feeling somewhat random and not giving much indication as to how one image leads to the other. 
It seems , to me , that Snyder spends a lot more time and energy on creating images like the one of Aquaman  standing in front of a gigantic ocean wave than he devotes to plot, story structure, character development, etc.  (Maybe those things are someone else's job.) 

And yet, on the other hand, while online I have seen so many fans who are honestly, earnestly happy about this Snyder Cut, that I don't begrudge it coming into existence.  And I will most likely pay a one month HBOMax subscription price to see it - - at some point. 
My one hope is that after it is released, Zack Snyder can finally shut up about it. 
 

Edited February 16, 2021 by shrewd.buddha

[Bruinsfan]

5 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

My one hope is that after it is released, Zack Snyder can finally shut up about it. 

From your mouth to Ayn Rand's ears!

[MarkHB]

 

[WritinMan]

Why the Justice League Snyder Cut Isn't Widescreen

"It's just got a different quality and one that is unusual. No one's doing that." No shit, Zack. I wonder why. 

Snyder gonna Snyder. Damn man, can't you do anything normal?

Apparently his original vision was for the movie to also be in black and white, so they are preparing that version as well with no current release date. I think it will be called: Zack Snyder's Really Milking it Now Justice League.