S06.E07: Pimp's Paradise

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Carl struggles with Nick's absence, inviting his friends to the Gallagher home for a party; Frank and Queenie rule the house; Debbie returns.

 

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

[WhosThatGirl]

I wasn't going to watch and then I broke down and watched and wished I hadn't. Seriously what happened to this show? Everyone is awful.

[superguard9]

I can't with Fiona anymore. Has she ever told a boyfriend/husband that she is legal guardian to 3 minors and can't move out whenever she feels like it? For all her complaining about Frank and Monica being shitty parents who were never there, she's doing the same thing. Oh, Frank and his current lover are around acting like adults? Cool, I'm gonna hang out at my guy's place until something happens and I need to freak out because I wasn't there like the responsible adult I told the courts I was.

[dangwoodchucks]

I'm not surprised they skipped over the details of how they bought the house back, and they've already gotten renovations done to boot. It's interesting how the dynamics have changed now that Fiona doesn't have total control of who gets to stay in the house.

 

It's amazing how much Sherilyn Fenn looks like an older Ginnifer Goodwin.

 

I totally cracked up at the captioning on the screen when Carl was talking to his homies at school.

[stagmania]

They actually had Ian tell the story of Mickey being raped and forced to marry Svetlana as if it was an amusing anecdote. And Caleb laughed. I'm...I don't see how anyone can deny at this point that this is deliberate. There is no need for them to bring up Mickey in every single episode like this, just to mock or trash him. 

 

As for the rest of the episode, Fiona continues to treat her guardianship as something she can pick up and put down, as does the rest of the family. Lip gets yet another nonsensical college problem that gets magically solved for him (and drops him into his very own porn scenario). Kev and Vee suddenly have relationship drama that came out of nowhere and was totally inconsequential. Every moment of Frank and Queenie's screen time was a waste -that story holds absolutely no interest or value for me. Debbie's story with the cancer woman was just too much for me to stomach. Carl's story might have some resonance if it wasn't mired in all this racist crap. 

 

I'm at a loss with this show.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah it's gotten way beyond messed up the way they are treating the character of Mickey at this point. I get that there may be behind the scenes issues but seriously this type of going about it will not endear me to Ian's new boyfriend.

[sazzat]

That was a big nothing of an episode. It basically completed the unraveling of a few major plot lines that offered change for the status quo: Gallaghers finish getting house back, Lip loses RA job, Debbie loses nanny job and returns home (and Fi says nothing, though she was adamant that she wouldn't support Debs's decision), Kev and Vee say goodbye to the refugees. Then we get sad Carl, gross Frank, racist Chuckie, Kev and Vee on a mini-vacation that doesn't have much of a point, Fi moving out (how does this even work OMG), Ian still on the fence about the career direction and recounting trauma from his past with complete detachment.

 

The white-boy-in-the-'hood bullshit is getting so, so old. Was it ever funny? Is it just me, or is it super dated to think that there's shock value humor to be had there? The subtitles just had me cringing. Like, it was funny in Airplane!, 30+ years ago, and in that case it was funny because the jive was essentially made up so it successfully played on the audience not being able to understand it. I mean, I knew what the kids were saying!

 

Fi is in an awkward position having used Carl's money, but I do not buy at all that she would give way to Frank without a fight, or that Carl would be particularly invested in having Frank around. The whole Frank and Queenie just seems like a blatant machination by the show to integrate Frank into the show, something they've always had trouble with; either he's out in his own world and we wonder what his purpose is, or he's in contrived circumstances with a family who no longer have any reason to put up with him. He's no longer their legal guardian; he doesn't own the home; the older kids have hated him since season 1; the younger kids pulled away from him in seasons three and four. 

 

The stakes for Fi's siblings are still the same as they were when she assumed guardianship in season 3: if she doesn't serve as guardian, they go to foster care. She knows this. Ambivalent or not, how does she skip off to Sean's? How does he even ask her to move in without thinking of the three younger siblings she has in her custody?

[dezi]

Good to see Ian remember how to have basic human interactions. It was nice to see him taking his turn as Liam's caretaker seeing as the job is up for grabs. I'm back to enjoying him and Caleb. Although, they really need to quit it with the Mickey anecdotes. We get it; Caleb is the anti-Mickey and he's showing Ian a whole new world. Let the memory of Mickey rest in peace. But, of course, they'll never pass up the chance to remind us how amusing male rape is.

 

We're back to season 5 Fiona. Disappointing. That impassioned speech she made to the judge back in season 3 now feels like it was just another Gallagher scam. Such a pity as it was one of my favourite moments of the series. I suppose I should be glad that she at least intended to take Liam with her.

 

Carl must be the most successful small-time criminal in history. I wish he'd go away.

 

For once I was glad that another pretty woman was inexplicably throwing herself at Lip. Anything to get rid of Helene. But, alas. I can't even get annoyed at Lip getting everything handed to him, anymore. It's beyond ridiculous.

 

I don't get why Debbie moved back in. I thought she moved out in protest against Fiona and in preparation for when the baby comes. So, what's changed? I'm happy she's back but I'm confused.

[Matt K]

I kind of wish we got a whole episode of Kev and Vee and Svetlona.  Maybe if they did that and then came back next week with the Gallaghers evening thing being changed, it may have worked better,  Instead they skip over like every conflict from the past 6 episodes, like what was the point (i.e. the house issues, Debbie, Fiona needing to deal with Gus, etc). 

 

The only story line I like from the G's is Carl's and the actor is killing it (I mean that in a good way).

[tennisgurl]

You know what...fuck this show. I do mean that, from the bottom of my heart, fuck this show. I said, last season, that this show was on thin fucking ice with me, and that after its crap season, and its God awful last episode, I was giving it one more strike before I bow out. Well, this was it. I am done. I am literally sickened by this show, and its terrible writing, its lack of care for its characters, and its straight up hatred of its own fan base. We get it, writers. You want us to forget all about how much people loved Ian and Mickey (I know not everyone did, but this show clearly pushed them as a Big Romantic Couple, albeit a messed up one), and how Mickey grew as a character for 5 seasons, far more than any other character, who, for the most part, have just regressed into shallow, sociopathic, gross shells of their former selves. We all fucking GET IT.

 

But to turn one of this shows most dramatic and well done story arcs, where Mickey was raped and forced to get married, and all the fall out that basically lasted two seasons, into a FUCKING JOKE, to remind us how lame Mickey is (who is in jail, of course, because he was defending Ian, in his own, messed up way) and how much we should laugh at his Ian`s "loser white trash criminal" ex boyfriend, all because the writers are pissy, is just next level bullshit. This show has gone so far off the rails, its on a different continent. What made this show work for 4 seasons was that, as messed up as things got for our heroes, the show has empathy for them, and when things got serious, it took them seriously. Now its just terrible shitty joke after terrible shitty joke, all the while telling its fans to kindly fuck themselves for caring.  

 

So, again, since profanity is clearly the only language these people can communicate with, FUCK THIS SHOW. 

[WhosThatGirl]

You know what...fuck this show. I do mean that, from the bottom of my heart, fuck this show. I said, last season, that this show was on thin fucking ice with me, and that after its crap season, and its God awful last episode, I was giving it one more strike before I bow out. Well, this was it. I am done. I am literally sickened by this show, and its terrible writing, its lack of care for its characters, and its straight up hatred of its own fan base. We get it, writers. You want us to forget all about how much people loved Ian and Mickey (I know not everyone did, but this show clearly pushed them as a Big Romantic Couple, albeit a messed up one), and how Mickey grew as a character for 5 seasons, far more than any other character, who, for the most part, have just regressed into shallow, sociopathic, gross shells of their former selves. We all fucking GET IT.

But to turn one of this shows most dramatic and well done story arcs, where Mickey was raped and forced to get married, and all the fall out that basically lasted two seasons, into a FUCKING JOKE, to remind us how lame Mickey is (who is in jail, of course, because he was defending Ian, in his own, messed up way) and how much we should laugh at his Ian`s "loser white trash criminal" ex boyfriend, all because the writers are pissy, is just next level bullshit. This show has gone so far off the rails, its on a different continent. What made this show work for 4 seasons was that, as messed up as things got for our heroes, the show has empathy for them, and when things got serious, it took them seriously. Now its just terrible shitty joke after terrible shitty joke, all the while telling its fans to kindly fuck themselves for caring.

So, again, since profanity is clearly the only language these people can communicate with, FUCK THIS SHOW.

This is everything I always want to say and I want to let go of this show, believe me I tried tonight but I'm a masochist or something and I can't. But you write everything I've felt. It's disgusting that they used what happened to Mickey as a fun party joke. What the hell was that? There's really no way this show thinks that they can possibly get me to like the Ian and Caleb pairing now. Sorry I am not sorry.

[Dee]

Lip moving into a sorority house is like letting Frank loose in a distillery.

[WaltersHair]

If this were baseball, Pimps Paradise would be the 7th inning stretch.

 

and Carl? Your sister is on probation, so those parties would put her right back in the slammer. Not that you seem to care about her anymore. Sad.

[WhosThatGirl]

You know what? I'm just going to start laughing at this show. It's become so absurd it doesn't even make sense. It's sad because it's awful but hilarious how absurd it is now. I used to like these characters and now I hate them all. It takes talent to make me not like anyone left on a show and I can't stop watching. For some reason.

[Armchair Critic]

It drives me crazy how Fiona drops her g's, I don't think the others do that if that is supposed to be her Chicago accent.

[TyranAmiros]

It drives me crazy how Fiona drops her g's, I don't think the others do that if that is supposed to be her Chicago accent.

I think it's supposed to be a class thing. It came up as a marker of education/social class in my sociolinguistics class in college. She does flatten her vowels to minimize her New York accent.

[stagmania]

If this were baseball, Pimps Paradise would be the 7th inning stretch.

 

and Carl? Your sister is on probation, so those parties would put her right back in the slammer. Not that you seem to care about her anymore. Sad.

 

The degree to which this show no longer cares about any of the realities that used to define these characters is truly staggering. Seasons 3 and 4 were all about Fiona assuming guardianship and dealing with the long term implications of that and realizing what a serious obligation it was after she went to jail. But ever since then, they treat it like a joke. Fiona's probation never comes up since she got the ankle monitor off in early Season 5. None of the stuff that's happened with Carl and Debbie has caused increased scrutiny from CPS- they haven't even bothered to mention it as a passing concern. Fiona just moves out of the house with various boyfriends and leaves her three minor siblings in the care of whatever passes for an adult in any given episode. It's mind boggling that they would just ignore this immense wealth of organic drama in favor of plot contrivances and false narratives with no resonance to the ongoing story.

[Chaos Theory]

I understand what the show is trying to do with Ian and his new love interest. There has not been a single Gallagher love interest that has been built on something healthy and that includes Mickey. Ian and Mickey grew into something resembling good and healthy but it didn't start that way and Mickeys coming out storyline was incredibly moving but with Iands mental illness I don't think it was again healthy at least in the short run. Again I understand what the show was trying to do I just don't think it did it well and needed to bash Mickey as much as it did.

Also I don't think the show needed to go with romance with Ian they could have gone with him attempting to not follow in his mother's footsteps and maybe find a career like Lip.

[dangwoodchucks]

Fiona obtained legal guardianship of her siblings, but she and Frank shared custody and he retained his parental rights. If he's at the house they're not going to be taken to foster care unless it's obvious there's neglect going on. Even if he's not there, unless someone calls CPS on them nothing will happen (unless the writers want it to).  At least Queenie is making sure they're fed and I for one am glad to see that someone is caring for Chuckie.

 

Carl and Debbie don't listen to Fiona anyway, and now Liam said he wanted to stay with Debbie. What is Fiona supposed to do? I doubt she'll leave Liam for the others to care for no matter where she lives. It was nice to see everyone rallying together when Fiona was trying to get the house back at the auction, now it seems once they got the house back another way, Fiona is of no use to them anymore.

   

Good to see Ian remember how to have basic human interactions. It was nice to see him taking his turn as Liam's caretaker seeing as the job is up for grabs. I'm back to enjoying him and Caleb. Although, they really need to quit it with the Mickey anecdotes. We get it; Caleb is the anti-Mickey and he's showing Ian a whole new world. Let the memory of Mickey rest in peace. But, of course, they'll never pass up the chance to remind us how amusing male rape is.

    We're back to season 5 Fiona. Disappointing. That impassioned speech she made to the judge back in season 3 now feels like it was just another Gallagher scam. Such a pity as it was one of my favourite moments of the series. I suppose I should be glad that she at least intended to take Liam with her.

    Carl must be the most successful small-time criminal in history. I wish he'd go away.

    For once I was glad that another pretty woman was inexplicably throwing herself at Lip. Anything to get rid of Helene. But, alas. I can't even get annoyed at Lip getting everything handed to him, anymore. It's beyond ridiculous.

    I don't get why Debbie moved back in. I thought she moved out in protest against Fiona and in preparation for when the baby comes. So, what's changed? I'm happy she's back but I'm confused.

 

 

Debbie didn't move in with the Wexlers initially when she started working for them IIRC, she conned them into it when she learned the Gallaghers were losing their house. She was going to have to seduce Erica in order to try to keep her room there, but she got the text from Frank saying they got the house back and to come home. Exactly how much time had passed since the last episode? Fiona hadn't been back to the house yet, yet renovations had been done and the others were already living there, including Liam. Why wait to tell Debbie? I know, to have the scenes of her thinking about having sex with Erica.

[Dee]

I'm glad Ian moved into another relationship.

 

If Fiona and Lip can have several significant romantic relationships, so should Ian.

[whiporee]

I look forward to this show, I really do. When it's good, I think it's about as good s TV has to offer. I think the acting is usually solid and the characters are compelling. It's appointment TV for me, as much as anything is. 

 

So I feel almost bad saying that that episode sucked. 

 

Not just kind of sucked, but terrible, all the way around sucked, like made no-sense-and-should-have-been-a-dream sucked-or-something-equally-stupid sucked. Nothing felt honest or real or even plausible.

 

But that's not what I'm most mad at. I'm most mad at Sherilyn Fenn flashing her boobs. Maybe she' at a point in her life where she doesn't care anymore -- I know I'm a lot less hesitant to take off my shirt in the locker room than I was 10 years ago. But that last moment was gratuitous and stupid and completely pointless other than to show a quick shot of her boobs, and I figure it had to be contract-mandated because it was so entirely pointless (as is the whole plot line, from start to finish).

 

They've been working some pretty good angles on this show this season -- I never cared for Mickey, so I don't care he's gone, the gentrification stuff was honest, them losing the house to that gentrification was a good idea, Carl's descent into full-out gangster was interesting and i9n character, even Debbie's pregnancy made sense to me from a  character standpoint.

 

Nothing tonight did.  Debbie running back to the house (and napalming that entire storyline with her confession), Carl continuing to embrace gangster life despite last episode ending with him returning to childhood a bit, the obvious and stupid realities of real estate completely ignored ... all of it. The only things that made any sense were a) Lip not answering the door (in though I've never in my life met a single person who ever had a strange girl come to his room in the middle of the night, no matter how hot they were) and b) Ian's reactions at the wedding, because I do think the only thing he would be able to do about Mickey at this point in his life is laugh it off, and tell the story as a joke because what else are you going to do? 

 

But mostly, I'm mad about Sherilyn Fenn's boobs. Because it was gratuitous and stupid and it means more Frank, and there's nothing good from either a show or a plot line standpoint that comes from that. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by whiporee

[stagmania]

Fiona obtained legal guardianship of her siblings, but she and Frank shared custody and he retained his parental rights. If he's at the house they're not going to be taken to foster care unless it's obvious there's neglect going on. Even if he's not there, unless someone calls CPS on them nothing will happen (unless the writers want it to).  At least Queenie is making sure they're fed and I for one am glad to see that someone is caring for Chuckie.

 

Carl went to juvie for dealing drugs, while Fiona was on probation. I think that qualifies as something pretty big happening that should have had the Gallaghers right back on the CPS radar. That "unless the writers want it to" parenthetical is exactly the problem, IMO. They ignore what should be basic story realities when it's inconvenient for them, and then suddenly bring them back when they feel like it. There's no sense of realism in the story anymore. 

 

b) Ian's reactions at the wedding, because I do think the only thing he would be able to do about Mickey at this point in his life is laugh it off, and tell the story as a joke because what else are you going to do? 

 

Be respectful of a person and a relationship that meant an awful lot to you? Some things are just never going to seem funny with any amount of retrospect, and I would imagine that watching the boy you love get raped at gunpoint is one of them. That just will never sit right with me, with any justification.

[sazzat]

On Ian and the way he talked about the last wedding he attended: in audience times it's been a few years, but in Ian time it's been about a year and a half since that happened (I think. Shameless has some severe timeline inconsistencies). When it happened, his whole life blew up.  Mickey isn't there, so I think the show can pass over the impact of those events on Mickey. The problem, to me, is how it impacted Ian versus how he talks about it now. He was devastated by how Mickey rejected him in the aftermath of that assault, and we were shown that devastation in detail over half a season. The show later implies that his resulting decision to skip town for the army was a first manifestation of a manic phase, so the onset of his bipolar disorder is part of this aftermath.  I'm not buying that Ian would be so flip about his immediate past, at least not yet. We haven't been shown that he's really processed any of it to the point where he could see how those details would seem so crazily exaggerated as to be funny when recounted all at once to an observer.

 

There is an argument to be made that Ian's ironic use of that story is a defense mechanism, like he's trying to act out his distance from that past, or that he's simultaneously warning Caleb about his crazy past while showing him how unaffected he is by it. One could also argue that it's an effect of the medication he's on. But I don't think the show has earned this, because they haven't shown us how Ian's coping or what his point of view looks like now. We saw him struggle with the fallout from the assault and Mickey's wedding in season 3. In seasons 4 and 5, the show devoted literal hours of airtime to the development of Ian's character and relationship with Mickey as Ian struggled with mental illness. When we left off last season, Ian was only beginning to accept his diagnosis, had been openly told by his family (not without sympathy, but still) that he was sometimes unable to care for himself, had a refresher in the long-term impact of untreated bipolar via a visit with Monica, and yet didn't want to comply with treatment.

 

The current season has showed relatively little of Ian. Episode one showed him reluctantly compliant with his treatment, which is already asking us to fill in the blanks, and had the prison visit where we see him acting not so much numb as sullen. Episode two, we see him resentful of Fiona's caretaking and sullen at the diner. Episode three, he's sullen at the new job and fights with Lip over the differences in their circumstances. He has a moment where we see him consider his reflection while walking through the city, then he saves that woman, and for the last four episodes the show hasn't touched on his mental state at all. His affect is back, we hear no more about his acceptance or denial of his diagnosis or treatment, but we have yet to see him deal with the impact of any of the last year plus on his life in any meaningful way besides throwaway remarks about how he's given lots of hand jobs and doesn't know how to go on a date.  He went from a multi-season arc that sputtered out with Lip exposing how Ian didn't want to be Monica while Ian paused crossing a bridge, potentially suicidal (?), to Ian putting it all behind him the next episode.

 

So after so much angst on this show over what's happening to Ian for a season and a half, we had three episodes with brief scenes of Ian in a holding pattern, and after the burning car moment, are now getting brief scenes that are saying hey, he's over it, no reason to spend time on this issue any more except to joke about how so many crazy things have happened to him. I'm all for the character moving on, but I feel like a math teacher: show your work. The rescue he performed can be a pivotal moment, but it's not a magic cure all. When Ian's descent was documented so thoroughly, the contrast in terms of how his recovery is being brushed over is jarring. I do not trust that the show is using the character shift to set us up for some big reveal or fallout. I think they just got tired of writing for the character they had constructed.

Edited February 22, 2016 by sazzat

[Julie Firestone]

But that's not what I'm most mad at. I'm most mad at Sherilyn Fenn flashing her boobs. Maybe she' at a point in her life where she doesn't care anymore -- I know I'm a lot less hesitant to take off my shirt in the locker room than I was 10 years ago. But that last moment was gratuitous and stupid and completely pointless other than to show a quick shot of her boobs, and I figure it had to be contract-mandated because it was so entirely pointless (as is the whole plot line, from start to finish).

 

 

I completely agree, it was cheap and gratuitous. I even looked up her blog page, because I was curious to see if she said anything about it. She said she was "really devastated," which makes me sad.

[wovenloaf]

Be respectful of a person and a relationship that meant an awful lot to you? Some things are just never going to seem funny with any amount of retrospect, and I would imagine that watching the boy you love get raped at gunpoint is one of them. That just will never sit right with me, with any justification.

It's not uncommon at all for traumatized people to outwardly demonstrate a sense of "laughing off," or minimizing or whatever you want to call it, a traumatizing event. It doesn't mean that Ian, in his own head, actually thinks the situation was funny and gets a big kick out of it. 

 

What annoys me more about Ian and Caleb is that the two actors have NO chemistry. It's not believable at all. Whatever. 

 

And yeah..."There's no rule that says you have to be there every night." Um actually there are several, and they aren't just rules, they are laws. Because you're the legal guardian, Fiona. The inconsistency is so ridiculous, in addition to season to season, it's from episode to episode. One episode she's all "I have to get the house back to keep the family together blahblah!" Then this episode she's never there to the point that the family actually thinks she moved out? Come on. I mostly just find it comical at this point, it's so ridiculous.

[stagmania]

Wow, I went to look at that blog post and now I just feel awful for that actress. There have been several stories of actresses on Shameless being caught off guard by nudity requests (Sasha Alexander recounted an episode director changing this up on her as they began filming a scene last season and being very uncomfortable) or putting their foot down about not doing it when it felt too gratuitous (Emmy Rossum has refused before, which is kind of amazing given how often we've seen her nude torso). It really does feel gratuitous and exploitative at times.

 

It's not uncommon at all for traumatized people to outwardly demonstrate a sense of "laughing off," or minimizing or whatever you want to call it, a traumatizing event. It doesn't mean that Ian, in his own head, actually thinks the situation was funny and gets a big kick out of it.

 

What annoys me more about Ian and Caleb is that the two actors have NO chemistry. It's not believable at all. Whatever.

 

Agreed on the lack of chemistry. My problem with the trauma/denial defense is that, as noted above, they haven't actually shown any of this with Ian. If we were seeing that he was struggling, or shown that he speaks or thinks differently about Mickey when he's on his own and not trying to impress Caleb, I might understand it. As it is, I just wish they'd stop having him talk about Mickey. Let the Caleb story stand on its own, instead of making every single interaction between them a counterpoint to Ian/Mickey.

Edited February 22, 2016 by stagmania

[WhosThatGirl]

I agree that if the wanted me to like Caleb and Ian, the compare and contrast mentions of how less Mickey and Ian were aren't going to endear me to the couple and now like I said I'm never going to like the pairing based on that moment last night.

As for Fiona, this is why it doesn't work, Fiona can't just walk off to Sean's apartment, she is the guardian. It just makes me think back to past seasons, she refused to go to a hotel for one night with jimmysteve because she was scared to leave the kids for night. When Monica came back and Fiona wet to the house next door because jimmysteve had bought it and she couldn't deal with moncia, she talked to the Carl and Debbie via the baby monitor because we knew Monica could not take care of them. I'm sorry but Fiona doesn't get the luxury of just running to her boyfriends. The judge wared her about this. And I'm curious to what Sean knows. To me it seems he doesn't know the extent of fionas guardianship. Either way, I'm just going to assume that something terrible is going to happen because Fiona is doing whatever the hell she wants.

Edited February 22, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[STOPSHOUTING]

Wow, I went to look at that blog post and now I just feel awful for that actress. There have been several stories of actresses on Shameless being caught off guard by nudity requests (Sasha Alexander recounted an episode director changing this up on her as they began filming a scene last season and being very uncomfortable) or putting their foot down about not doing it when it felt too gratuitous (Emmy Rossum has refused before, which is kind of amazing given how often we've seen her nude torso). It really does feel gratuitous and exploitative at times.

 

 

Agreed on the lack of chemistry. My problem with the trauma/denial defense is that, as noted above, they haven't actually shown any of this with Ian. If we were seeing that he was struggling, or shown that he speaks or thinks differently about Mickey when he's on his own and not trying to impress Caleb, I might understand it. As it is, I just wish they'd stop having him talk about Mickey. Let the Caleb story stand on its own, instead of making every single interaction between them a counterpoint to Ian/Mickey.

 

I didn't watch this episode and, honestly, I don't plan to. I've given up on Shameless. My heart goes out to Fenn though. If I recall correctly, she's had some serious, and public, money issues since her Twin Peaks days, so the ability to "just say no" might not be so easy, since she likely very much needs this job. This is not a problem on the level of true poverty or hunger or world peace, but it's still deeply unfortunate that actresses, even those with some level of success and recognition, as well as a wealth of experience in the industry (a.k.a. not just those looking for their first gigs), feel unable to say no to requests that A) offend them and B) were likely not disclosed before accepting the role.

[Dee]

I think Caleb and Ian have a nice amount of chemistry.

 

Their tender courtship is a nice change of pace from the epic misfires that have been the last few Gallagher related relationships.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Dee

[Primetimer]

The Gallaghers have the house back, but Fiona's feeling more and more pushed out. Not that anyone should want to live in a house CRAWLING WITH HEAD LICE anyway.

Read the story

[iMonrey]

I don't hate the show but it's clear they're running out of ideas. That was especially noticeable for Kevin and Veronica this episode. 

 

I agree Ian and Caleb have no chemistry and that's too bad because I'd actually like to see Ian move on into a more healthy relationship. I know there's a huge Ian and Mickey fan base out there but I was never that enamored of the coupling regardless of how well acted it was. Mickey was always bound for prison and was only going to drag Ian down with him.

 

The most heart-breaking thing to watch is Lip's self destruction over Helene. Geez, the whole thing just makes him look like an idiot. He's got a whole sorority house full of age-appropriate girls now dying to jump in the sack with him and he's spiraling out of control thanks to Helene and that alcoholic professor who's turning him into one too.

 

 

But mostly, I'm mad about Sherilyn Fenn's boobs. Because it was gratuitous and stupid and it means more Frank, and there's nothing good from either a show or a plot line standpoint that comes from that.

 

Moreover, when Frank asked Sammi if her mother was still "a looker," she said not so much, and she'd had a double mastectomy. She got reconstructive surgery and got nipples tattooed on. Those weren't tattoos. 

 

RE: Fiona and legal guardianship - she was granted co-guardianship with Frank. If he's there she doesn't need to be, legally. That's not to say he's in any way responsible enough to look out for the kids and at the very least she should have insisted on taking Liam with her.

[sazzat]

 

I agree Ian and Caleb have no chemistry and that's too bad because I'd actually like to see Ian move on into a more healthy relationship.

 

I don't think they have as much chemistry as Ian did with Mickey, but I thought their kiss on the bridge was quite sweet. If I just started watching at 6x04, I would probably like the story of a guy from a tough background testing the waters with a new man and learning about what romance can be like. It's just that it requires me to forget how Ian has come to be Ian, while at the same time the show won't let me forget, since it sets up comparisons between the new relationship and the old that make me say hey, that's not how that happened...

[Tooch]

The focus on Lip getting wasted as a way of dealing with Helene makes me VERY concerned that they're heading towards a "Lip spirals into alcoholism and becomes what he hates most (Frank)" storyline. On one hand, it's realistic. Addiction runs in families. On the other hand, UGH.

There have been so many opportunities to give Lip interesting storylines as he adjusts to life in college coming from his horrible background. I enjoyed his initial culture shock and his struggling with the assignments and schedule. That was GOOD. Then Amanda sorting him out and him shifting into a routine and getting used to idea of *actually* breaking away from the "ghetto" and not letting anyone make him feel shitty for it. That was GOOD.

Everything since then has been insanely unrealistic (he would not have been tossed from the dorm with no notice for a completely minor and easily correctable thing like painting a mural on the wall, and he would not be an undergrad TA teaching classes for Prof. Drunko) or predictable and awful (the entire affair with the hot professor).

Also did anyone else notice that Carl is apparently now growing weed? Between that and contributing to a delinquency of a minor by allowing him to have regular booze shipments, Fiona's ass would be back in jail like yesterday.

[LuciaMia]

"I totally cracked up at the captioning on the screen when Carl was talking to his homies at school."

I felt like the writers had just gone ahead and cannabilized several movies. Carls subtitles felt right out of 'Airplane'. (Oh, Stewardess, I speak jive.)

A porno movies for Lip. House boy? Really?

And then Lip had his 'Streetcar' moment, yelling Helenes name outside the house.

[wovenloaf]

"I totally cracked up at the captioning on the screen when Carl was talking to his homies at school."

I felt like the writers had just gone ahead and cannabilized several movies. Carls subtitles felt right out of 'Airplane'. (Oh, Stewardess, I speak jive.)

A porno movies for Lip. House boy? Really?

And then Lip had his 'Streetcar' moment, yelling Helenes name outside the house.

And we also had our American History X moment with Chuckie getting in trouble for writing a report on Mein Kampf.

[dangwoodchucks]

The subtitles were funny to me because it was so random.

 

Did anyone notice that when Carl went and spoke to the parents of the boy Nick killed he was not using his thug dialect?

[Chaos Theory]

I am going to defend Fiona for a moment.

Fiona had no one growing up. At least the other kids had her. For better or worse she was their mother. How well did you often treat your mother growing up? I can see her with good reason getting fed up. We forget she is a kid herself. An unwed teenager rearing a brood of kids...except they were never hers. And yes in the end she did ask for them but that was when her life was on an upswing she had JimmySteve and she assumed Lip and Ian would be there to help. Now Lip is never around and Ian had a psychotic break. To make matters worse she has two teenagers who are acting like teenagers.

Yes she asked for custody and that is what everyone keeps coming back to. What I keep coming back to are what her options actually were at that moment.

Bad or worse.

And what they are now.

Worse or worser.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[tomsmom]

My husband...

"Who the hell has a wedding like that on a freaking weekday??!!"

His snark makes me smile.

[whiporee]

Chao, I'm with you on Fiona's choices, and that she's (IMO) a rather noble character. To be honest, I blame her for nothing that's happened since the show started, and I think the character blames herself for all of it.

However, I don't think it holds water that she would move in with Sean at this point. She might spend the night, but to move it ... doesn't quite fit.

Having said that, Fiona has always had a willingness to let anyone other than Frank take over parenting the kids. She let Sammi do it, she let Sheila do it -- hell, I think she let Monica do it, she let Debbie do it. I don't think Fiona would every run like Jimmy offered at the end of season 1, but I think she's always been more than willing to let anyone who's willing to take over taking care of the kids for a while.

I missed the first 10 minutes -- how did Debbie get back in the house (I saw where Frank told her the house was back, but I don't know whether Fiona capitulated to that or not)? And did they give any sort of time frame for how long it had been -- those were some pretty serious renovations to the place; those things aren't done overnight.

[sazzat]

I totally get why Fiona would be exhausted by the responsibility that was basically forced on her. It's not like she could really say no in season 3, when the prospect of foster care was immediate. I felt for her even when she was trying to deny blame for endangering Liam, because Lip's concern with her "not guilty" plea was about how he would have to sacrifice his future if she spent the next five years in jail. That wouldn't be fair, but was it fair for Fiona to give up her future merely because she was born first? But the show has her moving out without showing her acknowledging the dangers of that choice, and no matter how tired she is or how ungrateful the kids are, she knows what's at stake if she leaves, both legally and personally. She's built part of her identity around being in authority in that household, as well, and even when she's let someone else step in (with the exception of Sheila it's always a disaster, and as for Frank, he called CPS on them himself), she hasn't been willing to relinquish that authority when challenged. The show is making it seem like the potential consequences wouldn't occur to her or bear weight in her decision.

[Dee]

It's interesting that Ian & Lip have been uncharacteristically ambivalent regarding Debbie's pregnancy, at least, thus far.

 

Sure, Lip, at Fiona's insistence, mildly tried to cajole Debs into having an abortion and Ian threw her some serious side eye during her flour baby antics; but for two guys who'd promised to beat the shit out of her boyfriends if they were tools, they've been pretty hands off.

 

At the very least, I'd expect Lip to be nearly as unrelenting as Fiona, about Debbie getting an abortion, given how enraged he became about having to take care of the family, when Fiona was facing a potentially lengthy prison sentence back in Season 4.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Dee

[sheetmoss]

Remember,two (fingers) in the pink...one(finger) in the stink!

Edited February 22, 2016 by sheetmoss

[Dee]

,

Edited February 22, 2016 by Dee

[stagmania]

It's interesting that Ian & Lip have been uncharacteristically ambivalent regarding Debbie's pregnancy, at least, thus far.

 

Sure, Lip, at Fiona's insistence, mildly tried to cajole Debs into having an abortion and Ian threw her some serious side eye during her flour baby antics; but for two guys who'd promised to beat the shit out of her boyfriends if they were tools, they've been pretty hands off.

 

At the very least, I'd expect Lip to be nearly as unrelenting as Fiona, about Debbie getting an abortion, given how enraged he became about having to take care of the family, when Fiona was facing a potentially lengthy prison sentence back in Season 4.

 

Unfortunately, I think this is more a sign of how disjointed the siblings' stories have become than any intentional commentary on their relationships. No one but Fiona and Frank have been paying any attention to Debbie, when there was a time when a story like this absolutely would have involved the whole family. 

[whiporee]

I think Lip and Ian have accurate roles with Debbie's pregnancy, because I can't see any situation where a mainstream audience would be okay with a man browbeating a girl -- any man, any girl -- into an abortion. I think Lip said about as much as he could without coming off as a reprehensible asshole. I don't even think Frank could get away with it.

 

Maybe Mickey (or a Milcovich), in an off-hand, cruel way, but I don't think there's any tolerance anywhere for a brother arguing or trying to convince a sister to have an abortion. I think Lip offered to help and to drive, but beyond that, there's not a lot he can -- or is willing -- to say, regardless of the shittiness of the situation. 

 

I alos think that for a lot of kids in their situation -- like Lip -- it doesn't feel like the prison sentence it feels like to Fiona. Because to Lip and Ian, it's just another thing that goes on. Lip tried to convince Mandy -- he wanted to keep the baby with Karen -- because they see that love as something positive. Fiona, who's lived with raising the kids and being up with probably three kids now (she was too young to to a whole lot of mothering to Ian, I think) -- knows that it cuts off options. But among the Gallaghers, she's probably alone in thinking it the condemnation she does.  

[Dee]

Lip doesn't have to harass Debs about an abortion, he's always been fairly accepting of her choices, but, he should be asking her hard questions pertaining to the baby.

 

Debs has no job, no visible means of support (beyond welfare), no home (until recently) & her adult siblings are busy with the rest of the family (Fiona), a full time college student (Lip) or dealing with a debilitating mental health disorder (Ian), to provide her and the baby much in the way of support.

 

Given that he views college as his safe space, there's no way he'd be ok with potentially sacrificing his future to raise another kid.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Dee

[Chaos Theory]

Regarding Deb and her pregnancy; wasnt Lip in the same position early in the series? Well the kid turned out not to be his but he was willing to go against Fiona. He was still in highschool and all that so he really can't say much and he sort of knows that. The only thing I would accept from him is the "You are listening to Frank?" Or "You have no right to expect Fiona to take care of your kid" argument.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[sazzat]

Regarding Deb and her pregnancy; wasnt Lip in the same position early in the series? Well the kid turned out not to be his but he was willing to go against Fiona. He was still in highschool and all that so he really can't say much and he sort of knows that. The only thing I would accept from him is the "You are listening to Frank?" Or "You have no right to expect Fiona to take care of your kid" argument.

I don't know, on one hand he did face the same circumstances and wanted Karen to have the baby plus later had the spur-of-the-moment impulse for Mandy to have his baby (am I remembering that right?), so he doesn't have grounds to deter Debbie unless he wants to add that he was an idiot to want a baby in high school and knows better now. On the other hand, as the guy, he had the luxury of not having to think about the consequences of carrying the baby or even being its primary caretaker in the way that his partners would have, and I don't think he really thought out what that would be like for them. I could picture him feeling very differently about his sister and not really having the hypocrisy compute.

[iMonrey]

 

(he would not have been tossed from the dorm with no notice for a completely minor and easily correctable thing like painting a mural on the wall,

 

I think the mural was just an excuse to kick him out; the situation with Helene was the real problem but for legal reasons they didn't want to tangle with that. They probably looked at his record/financial situation and figured if he didn't have free student housing he'd have to quit school and ultimately that's what they want. Him gone.

[sheetmoss]

If they want to keep things real, Debbie will probably  have multiple kids by 18

   . It will be interesting if they go there in future seasons.