S02.E14: Escape From Earth-2

[themadman]

I wonder what these prisoners of Zoom do when they have to pee. Those cages sure don't look like they have secret toilets.

[Rai]

Zoom probably extracts it out of them.  To help him Whiz faster.

 

I'll just show myself out now.

[tennisgurl]

E2 Barry and Iris are just so adorable. I really hope we get to see them again. Especially E2 Barry. What an adorable little puppy nerd with his badass cop wife. 

 

Zoom is a really compelling villain. Not all bad guys need to have sad backstories or super complex motives. Zoom is just scary and competent, which is a deadly, but very watchable, combination. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When Harrison asked Cisco if Zoom had followed him back to Star Labs, I just rolled my eyes. It's not exactly a secret that Wells works at Star Labs. If Zoom wanted to come look for him, isn't that one of the first places he would go? I'm no stalking genius but if I were looking for someone, I'd try where they live and where they work first. That doesn't mean Cisco led Zoom to Harrison. It just means that Zoom isn't a complete moron.

 

Poor MITIM. Barry promised to come back for him and then they had Jay close the breach. That's going to make rescuing MITIM a little more difficult.

 

I thought that Killer Frost seeing how Barry refused to leave Iris would convince her to help them, but it ended up being Zoom trying to kill Jessie. Either way, fine with me that something broke through to her.

 

Bonus points to Cisco for referencing the Cliffs of Insanity!

 

When Harrison, Cisco, and Iris went looking for Killer Frost in the woods, Mr. EB asked why they were on Endor. Hee!

[millennium]

I adore this show in so many ways.

 

But, for the love of all that's good and non-Arrowy about this show: AT LEAST SHOW US WHO ZOOM IS.

 

I get drawing out the mystery, but come on now.

 

I hear you.   It's gone from intriguing to annoying.   Normally when a show features a mysterious villain you get at least a few breadcrumbs every week to lead you to the truth (as with Dr. Wells/Eobard Thawne).   But where Zoom is concerned, nothing.

 

In response to which I quote Earth-2 Barry as he admonished Cisco and Wells for holding him prisoner: "This is not okay!"

[Potanical Pardon]

Is it common in other aspects of the Flash continuum for the prime villain's context to be recycled like they appear to be recycling S1- character pretending to be someone he's not- primarily someone in a mentor position?

Nope. In fact, as far as the Flash...any Flash...is concerned, there is no student-mentor dynamic. He's the man, no coddling or coaching needed.

There is a student-teacher/mentor role of Max Mercury with Bart Allen, though, that is really awesome. And to an extent, Max and Jay Garrick are father-figures to Wally West's Flash, though he's his own man. Wally West SAYS he looks up to Barry in the comics but it's not really shown, because he long surpassed his predecessor for 20 years as the main Flash.

That said, the closest thing is a younger Eobard Thawne comes back to the present during an earlier year with Wally as The Flash pretending to be Barry (had plastic surgery to look identical to Barry) with some slight amnesia. This is all after real Barry had died, and Wally was full of self-doubt as far as measuring up to his mentor. It's the defining story-arc where he gets over that hangup convincingly and IMO really becomes the definitive Flash.

 

No please don't switch to the Collider recap. That recap is notoriously bad - they were ripped to shreds for their sexism (and racism, sorry) in their review of 2.12. The guy who leads it apparently wasn't there and the ones left were HORRIBLE. One of them actually called Iris a HO. Seriously. Terrible recappers. For some reason, they cannot be fair and biased - especially with the women characters on the show. For 2.12, I've never seen the thumbs down nearly equal the thumbs up and most of the comments obliterated them.

Refuse to ever watch that show. After buzz would be better. At least they try to be fair.

I just went over to look at it. I hadn't watched that one. And within the first few moments seeing the panel, think I know who's the culprit. He's notoriously an insecure chatch, though has softened over the years and turned it into a self-deprecating schtick. Still, yeah...he would bring the quality and tone down instantly as he does on the Arrow, Agents of SHIELD, Walking Dead recaps. David Griffin's okay. He does the Star Wars recap show too. I have noticed the main guy who wasn't in this one, John Campea, having spurts of pervy misogyny and awkward Asian stereotyping that always makes me wonder a bit about the relationship with his Asian wife.

If only Screen Junkies would expand making recap shows.

Edited February 18, 2016 by Potanical Pardon

[rogueprinzess]

Try the Collider Video Recap instead. Kind-of-sort-of the same Maria Menudos circle of friends, sets, etc. but not under that umbrella/production. Completely separate entity that uses similar sets and shares talent and show formats, but the quality of discussion/deliberation for most of their recap shows is definitely superior.

 

Thanks for this suggestion. The ABTV panel is just so biased that their recap rarely covers the show itself so much as their gushing over their favorite characters or hating on the ships the don't like. I would love something that just discusses the episode on it's merit. 

 

*ETA just saw Phoenics post about Collider...aaaaaand back to the drawing board...

 

Yeah, this annoyed me too.  She was held for months by Zoom, terrorized and threatened with death.  She was moments away from finally getting killed and when she finally gets free, his first thought it NOT to put as much distance as she can between her and Zoom?  Really?  After she finally escapes, she treats Zoom's threat as seriously as she would a teenager threatening to toilet paper her house during Halloween.  That doesn't make any sense.

 

At the very least, get as far away as you can and then when you're safe, worry about what you're going to do next.

 

I think that the whole scenario Jesse was a writing and/or editing faux pas. This episode wasted SO much time with that long ass unnecessary pep talk with the Barrys - the Barrisi? that they had to smash all the remaining scenes at the end. I remember actually looking at my watch during that "escape" scene in the lair. How the absolute hell do you all have time to hug and pontificate and give long-winded pep-talks when there's a faster than light pyschopath out looking for you? It was gratuitous to the point of distraction. But digressing, while Jesse should have been beyond ready to get as far away from Zoom upon her release, I feel like the scene should have her mentioning her friends etc. in the sense of "we're going to just leave all the people we care about to the mercy of this murderer while we run to safety" instead of sounding like an ungrateful teenager.

 

Which also reminds me that their hasty retreat from E2 without any renewed plan as to how to dispatch of Zoom - particularly now that they've pissed him off - seemed very uncharacteristic. Of course there's going to be another way to open a portal between the worlds, especially now that Zoom has Jay, who created the speed cannon. E2 Westallen are definitely going to be in danger now, unless one of Iris' relatives in Atlantis is Aquaman. I will NOT be happy if they kill off either of those two. Way too many cool dopples were killed already.

 

Well, maybe she now sees it that way because he didn't say anything about it and basically let it happen, lol. Also, the E1 Barry completely abandoned his entire mission the second he saw Iris to go hang out with her for hours, pretending to be her husband. Not once did he ask or inquire about Zoom in any way, like had been the supposed plan- he was completely distracted by the idea that he was married to Iris. And Cisco and Harry probably realized that, or at least they should have, because they both brought up that he shouldn't even be doing this. They probably weren't surprised at hearing that he got "frisky" with her, lol.

 

That whole situation was a bit of a "sticky wicket" from the get-go. I understand that the team was short on time, but considering the fact that E2 Barry is a very smart man and Iris equally smart, and that they're more than aware of metahumans and Zoom, I still don't understand why E1 Barry couldn't have actually TALKED to E2 Barry and convinced him to help him out - especially since he would have gladly. While it's true that Barry didn't initiate any of the PDA between he and E2 Iris, he knew it was wrong to allow her to continue assuming he was her husband. As mentioned before, he's a speedster; he could have sped up to E2 Barry's lab and searched for the info he planned to and been back at STAR labs before lunch. But he allowed that farce to continue because of his feelings for Iris. He was pretty much lost on his original mission the second Iris kissed him in that hallway. It was selfish all around as it really didn't benefit the mission or get them anywhere closer to defeating Zoom. But it's also a very human reaction. I doubt Harry Wells would have been able to resist if an exact replica of Jesse existed on E1. 

 

This episode was okay but I muchly preferred last weeks. I'll have to check but I think these two episodes had different directors; the tone/feel of them was drastically different. I'm just tired of the stagnation the show seems to have fallen into. I don't feel like any of the characters are growing/working towards anything. It's like we're just spinning our wheels and killing time every week. It doesn't help I guess that I'm watching phenomenal shows like Agent Carter and Jessica Jones. They're just so much better at characterization and development it makes me sad for the potential The Flash is squandering right now. As mentioned upthread by others, I too don't give two left areolas about Zoom or anything about him anymore. I'm over his threats and menacing stance. Give me a reason to care about his plight - actually never mind, I no longer care. I'm more interested in Cisco's journey to Reverb level powers and the show giving Iris and Caitlin more to do since they've shown yet again that they're pretty awesome when that opportunity (rarely) arises.

Edited February 18, 2016 by rogueprinzess

[miracole]

I loved E2 Iris this episode.

 

I was not a fan of the  Barri heart to heart.  "If you think you can do it, you can!" Umm, maybe if you're doing your taxes this speech works otherwise yeah not so much.

 

While killer Frost helped them get up the cliffs of Insanity she still killed Iris' Dad so I would have been okay with Iris shooting her at some point.

[DearEvette]

 

While killer Frost helped them get up the cliffs of Insanity she still killed Iris' Dad so I would have been okay with Iris shooting her at some point.

 

I think that in the back of Iris' mind she knew that because Killer Frost helped them, Zoom would probably end up Killing her in the end.  As an ethical cop Iris wouldn't think to do something like that no matter how much she despised the woman for killing her father.  But she knew KF would end up paying for her sins after all.

 

I re-watched and the scene where Barry-2 takes them all up to his lab ,  I think it was my favorite scene.  Not just because of the funny "frisky" line but also it signaled a bit of change in the opinion that Wells and Cisco had about him.  Wells was not even trying to hide his impatience and contempt with Barry-2.  But when he showed them all his gizmos and what-nots for tracking metahumans, I could see them kinda giving him more speculative looks. And I liked how Iris was like " don't get it twisted, this is why I love this guy."  Grant Guston was great in that scene because Barry-2's nerd gun was turned to 100 and he sold it so well.  But Candace Patton was also great because each time she looked at him she had this look of just utter pride on her face.  You get why  WestAllen-2 are together.

Edited February 18, 2016 by DearEvette

[Trini]

 

More than that, I think their end goal was to get: 'yay, we did it! We closed the breach against Zoom! He's gone! See? We can celebr- oh wait, never mind, Jay's gotten grabbed by Zoom and the breach is closed'.

It was so telegraphed though. Not a surprise at all. And the blocking required Jay to act like an idiot.

 

 

Yep. It would have been at least 50% less stupid if they hadn't had Jay actually walk towards the breach for no reason.

[KirkB]

It wasn't helped by the fact that particular breach reacted differently from all the other breaches they closed, by staying open an inordinate amount of time, but yes the way they blocked the scene make Jay really look like an idiot.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Flash Tries To Escape Earth-2
It's a cool place and all, but that Zoom sitch is a problem.

[zannej]

Almost, hell.  She was appalled.  And that's okay.  The guy in 127 Hours was likely appalled that he was going to have to cut his arm off, even though he had no other choice considering the situation.  Sure, she wasn't amputating an arm, but she's amputating her life.  She's (for what she knows right now) leaving behind almost everyone she ever knew, everything she ever owned, every place she'd ever been and never coming back.  The breach will be sealed and she'll be stuck in some alien universe forever.  That's pretty fucking appalling when you get right down to it.

Exactly! It's not like they were taking what was supposed to be a temporary trip. This is permanent. Jesse will likely NEVER see her friends and other family members ever again. Zoom is the devil she knows, but this other Earth is uncharted territory for her. She had to be frightened. She won't know what to do when she gets to the other Earth. Keep in mind that even adults have a hard time following the rules of Witness Protection. Kids and teenagers can have some serious problems with it. While intellectually they know they could die if they don't just leave their lives and loved ones behind, emotionally it can be very difficult. I think Jesse was having a moment of panic. She thought she'd just gotten her life back and now she was going to have to leave right then without being able to pack her stuff or say goodbye. If she made it through the portal she would be alive, but she wouldn't have her life. I think there was also a little bit of something that was left unsaid: before she was abducted, she found out that her father was responsible for creating Zoom (and the metahumans). This was his mess that he created and now he was just abandoning all of those people to the monsters he created. He was running away. Granted, he had good reason to run, but it had to be upsetting for her to see that he was going to run rather than stay and try to find a way to defeat Zoom. She just wasn't thinking rationally in those moments.

 

I think that Zoom let everyone escape. I noticed when re-watching episode 12 that Zoom's hand was shaking before he injected himself with the stolen speedforce. I think he goes through withdrawal and needs to keep getting a speed fix.

 

I think he let the team escape to Earth1 because he may know of a way to re-open the portal-- or the portal really wasn't closed and only appeared to be closed. I think "Jay" wasn't really Jay and that he sabotaged the speed canon.

 

I also think that he was working with Geomancer and that he led him to STARLabs and let him in (hence no alarms going off).

[KirkB]

Interesting. You think Jay was working for/with Zoom? Because if he was, why did he make a point of co-opting Wells? Or do you think Jay has some interest separate from Zoom's?

[statslady]

Was I imagining things, or were Iris and Caitlin - on both Earths - allowed to do things tonight? Wow.

 

Good things:

 

1. Earth-2 Barry and his shoes. He was adorable. Plus, I'm glad someone voiced that Earth-1 Barry kissing Earth-2 Iris was not the greatest.

 

2. Earth-1 Caitlin getting to rescue Iris in a nice parallel to Earth-1 Iris rescuing her last year. And then followed by Killer Frost saving Jesse and the others from Zoom. Granted, about five minutes after that I was kinda wishing that Killer Frost hadn't saved Jesse, but it was a nice thought.

 

3. Flash remembering that Earth-1 Iris is a journalist and therefore has a reason to go to Star Labs and keep track of what's going on. Can we keep remembering this, show?

 

4. Cisco, finally putting some of his training and hanging out with Team Flash and Team Arrow and putting the drop on Killer Frost, even if that turned out to be mostly a ruse on her part. It still started out well.

 

5. Earth 2 Barry and Earth 2 Iris, unlike some characters I could mention, immediately and sensibly agreeing to get out of Zoom's way at the end of the episode. With a bonus callback to Atlantis that this time around I did not identify with the Bahamas resort, thanks everyone on this forum!

 

Questionable things:

 

1. Who was that masked man anyway?  (Henry Allen? A Jay? Clark Kent? Probably not Clark Kent.)

 

2. How were they all climbing slippery ice in those inappropriate shoes and no gloves? That was quite a climb, even if Killer Frost built stairs for them.

 

3. Why does Barry always need a pep speech? Start getting your own motivations, Barry!

 

4. Does no one in the Arrowverse ever stop to think that it's just possible that prisoners might have to go to the bathroom every once in awhile, or is it a rule on both earths that no prisoner can ever be allowed to use the toilet? It was bad enough when it was just that cage down in the Arrow Cave and the cells in Star Labos, but now it's also flashback prison on that island, the cage down in the new Arrow Cave, and Zoom's prison. 

 

5. Speaking of Zoom's prison, did he have that one cell modified specifically for speedsters so that Barry couldn't vibrate his way through it?

 

6. Yes, everyone, let's all stand around and listen to Earth-2 Barry's little speech when a) there's another prisoner right behind you who might be able to provide useful information, given pen and paper and/or, I don't know, let out of his cage, and b) you know Zoom is on the way. 

 

Bad things:

 

1. And speaking of questionable moves, yes, Jay who might not actually be Jay after all, do stand right in front of the portal that you know Zoom can come through right after Barry, Wells, Cisco and whatshername came rushing through it.  Though yes, I do find it suspicious that Jay has now offered two different, contradicting stories about how he lost his speed, and that we've never seen Jay and Zoom in the same place, and that Jay was conveniently "asleep" during an attack. Sleeping pretty deeply, too, if he was taking a nap at Star Labs.

 

If so, my inner seven year old is all sad that they've made Jay evil, but hoping that there's still a good Jay out there somewhere!  

 

Must be, right?

 

2. Geomancer: still boring.

 

3. If Caitlin could just take out the Geomancer with the whatever thing, why couldn't the cops use some of the tools Cisco built for them to slow him down? Oh, right, so that Caitlin would have yet another incentive to create the Velocity 8 thing.  But surely Caitlin already had that incentive?

 

4. Iris' new boss? Also boring.

 

5. Hands down winner for most annoying person in the episode goes, without question, to Jesse. Jesse, you've just spent months locked up by Zoom who is still after you and just tried to kill you, and you are going to waste time by squawking that you don't want to leave your friends? Do you want to get them killed as well?  Not looking forward to seeing her on Earth 1.

 

6. Ye television gods, Flash. I realize you have set problems, but you need a better reason for having a duplicate secret time travel braille room than "we couldn't afford another set." I guess I should be relieved that the hospital set didn't make another appearance.

 

7. And speaking of issues with Star Labs, why does Star Labs still not have some sort of basic alarm system? I get that they want Joe and Iris to be able to waltz in whenever, which, fine, but this is still a lab filled with all kinds of expensive equipment that's also hiding Barry Allen's uniforms and secret identities, so they should at least have some sort of alarm bell just to let hem know when people are walking in and out. 

So much item #4!  I've been wondering the same thing!  Also add to it the DEO cell on Supergirl.  Let's capture evil supervillians, put them in a cell with no bathroom and nothing to do except contemplate revenge.  Good plan.

[catrice2]

I"m not sure...I think I heard Iris ask if her dad was still alive in the other world, but did anyone ever ask if Iris and Barry were together on Earth 1? 

[SevenStars]

I"m not sure...I think I heard Iris ask if her dad was still alive in the other world, but did anyone ever ask if Iris and Barry were together on Earth 1?

No one ever asked.

[ParadoxLost]

Interesting. You think Jay was working for/with Zoom? Because if he was, why did he make a point of co-opting Wells? Or do you think Jay has some interest separate from Zoom's?

 

I think Jay's line about both Jay and Zoom getting addicted to more speed is a little retroactively suspect.  So I think that its possible Zoom had two agendas.  First, Well's helps him get Barry's 'natural' speed. And second Jay gets them to help develop a safe source of artificial speed.  Jay needing Barry gone to push the serum development because that is the scenario where they had to create a speedster.  If Jay had been setting up Barry like Wells did and been caught at it then the serum development would have been at risk.  So why bother taking the risk if you can leverage Wells to fo that bit of dirty work.

[Captain Stable]

Something I was really confused by in this episode: Why did Barry pop out of the portal into Earth 2 rather than Earth 1? The way it was shot they made it look like Zoom had beat him to Earth 1, but then you realize that no-one else is there, and Barry/Wells jump back into the portal and return to Earth 1. Was this just confusing editing or was there a reason for it?

 

Isn't it because to use the portals you need to use the Speed force - and Barry can only take 2 people with him at a time, so he took Cisco and Jessie (we saw them stagger out), then Barry went back to E2 to get Harrison, who was already in the hands of Zoom.

[KirkB]

Hang on. If you're right, and you need the speed force to get through the portals, how did Jay and Wells get to Earth 1? Did Zoom bring them? If Jay has been working for/with Zoom the whole time then probably, but was Wells already doing Zoom's bidding when he got there or did co-opt him some time afterward? And if Zoom brings all the breachers across, how did he manage to carry King Shark?

[phoenics]

Hang on. If you're right, and you need the speed force to get through the portals, how did Jay and Wells get to Earth 1? Did Zoom bring them? If Jay has been working for/with Zoom the whole time then probably, but was Wells already doing Zoom's bidding when he got there or did co-opt him some time afterward? And if Zoom brings all the breachers across, how did he manage to carry King Shark?

 

That's an excellent catch.  

 

I have no idea.  It's either a giant plot hole, or it means something.

[AudienceofOne]

I thought you only needed the speed force to use the portal in the labs. Because of like reasons. Why I thought this I'm not sure but I thought the other portals were different.

[zannej]

They had to use a "speed canon" to be able to send others through the portal. Wells must have used a similar device on his world to go through. Note that Zoom didn't know where he was at first. I suspect that Zoom sent "Jay" through. I don't think that was really Jay. I think it was a clone that he sent on a mission. They needed Barry to help because Jay claimed the portal was more volatile and needed a speedster because it was the only breach. I suspect he tampered with the device around the portal so he could use it as an excuse for Barry to be needed. And I think he sabotaged it so that Barry couldn't come back until the right moment. I also think he planned to just return once he got the new serum. He had a sort of "so long, suckers!" look on his face right before Zoom snagged him. I think Zoom decided to kill him since he outlived his usefulness or he was just unconscious. Not sure. But the guy in the mask was highly upset.

[Actionmage]

I saw the repeat of this tonight.

 

The hands of The Man in the Iron Mask look to be someone of color, imo. With the Earth-2 appearance of Dr. Hewitt, sould it be him from , say, Earth-3 or another Earth? It could be Joe or Wally West of another Earth, as Killer Frost implied that she had faced "breachers" from multiple Earths.

 

Now, the blonde hair I can't explain, but iirc, the spec about Wally being this guy was high after this episode. Also, Wesley Snipes in Demolition Man was sporting some blonde locks.

[zannej]

I saw the repeat of this tonight.

 

The hands of The Man in the Iron Mask look to be someone of color, imo. With the Earth-2 appearance of Dr. Hewitt, sould it be him from , say, Earth-3 or another Earth? It could be Joe or Wally West of another Earth, as Killer Frost implied that she had faced "breachers" from multiple Earths.

 

Now, the blonde hair I can't explain, but iirc, the spec about Wally being this guy was high after this episode. Also, Wesley Snipes in Demolition Man was sporting some blonde locks.

The hands just looked dirty. The back of the neck looked Caucasian and the hair texture did not match Wally's. It looked more like the texture of Teddy Sears' hair. I think I have changed my mind on the clone thing. I think there are twins-- two sets and that the guy who hitting on Caitlin was Earth 1 Jay who was a con artist (the opposite of the hero Jay on Earth 2). I think Zoom fed him enough info to be believable and he was working with Zoom for some goal. The degrading DNA didn't seem to show up until after he was given Velocity 6. Maybe he refused to take it because he never had speed powers to begin with and when they gave him the serum he realized it would work. Or maybe Zoom (who I think is Earth2 Hunter Zolomon) sometimes sat in and pretended to be Jay. I know sometimes identical twins pretend to be each other for some purpose. I think the guy in the mask is Earth2 Jay. But who knows.

There was a spoiler from an upcoming synopsis that might be misleading.

[Oscirus]

 

 

Looks like a Caucasian to me. The actor playing Wally is light skinned though, so..... maybe but I doubt it.