S13.E16: Loose Cannons

[MyAimIsTrue]

Doctor Cyril Taft experiences the rush of an NCIS case after he is assigned surgical duty to Gibb’s suspect and finds key evidence. Also, Dinozzo pays Jeanne Benoit a visit as he chases a lead involving doctors in Sudan.

[AimingforYoko]

A Fast & Furious storyline? Way to be topical there, NCIS.

So are we going to be hitting all of Tony's greatest hits on his way out the door?

Laura San Giacomo, haven't seen her in a while. Could be interesting.

[secnarf]

This was the first time I really felt like they might be making Tony leave to get back together with Jeanne. It was only an inkling, but I'm gonna be furious if they do. The Jeanne storyline is done. DONE.

[AshleyLyn]

 

Laura San Giacomo, haven't seen her in a while. Could be interesting.

 

I knew that was her! I was like... ahhhh it's Nadine from The Stand. 

 

Decent episode. So damn glaaaaad it didn't have Tony and Jeanne kissing, cause you know, she married. Hopefully the writers will have him fully moving on. 

Why did Ponytail Bad Guy seem familiar?

Was worried that Jon Cryer's character or his wife, or both were gonna die the moment the car didn't start. 

[Julia]

What on earth happened to Michael Weatherley? My husband asked me if he'd been ill, and that's not the kind of thing my husband notices if it's subtle.

I'd've said they wouldn't go there with Jeanne, but I still don't buy that Jake cheated, so I don't run down the same tracks as these writers.

Laura San Giacomo is still unfairly pretty, and I think she and Gibbs look great together (have I mentioned how much I appreciate him moving on from Sears this season?), but I think I must have missed them meeting cute and developing a pigtail tugging relationship. Help?

[MyAimIsTrue]

I missed the opening credits so I was surprised and thrilled to see Laura San Giacamo.  She's always been a favorite of mine.

 

The Ducky vs. Duckie never gets old to me.

[AimingforYoko]

Laura San Giacomo is still unfairly pretty, and I think she and Gibbs look great together (have I mentioned how much I appreciate him moving on from Sears this season?), but I think I must have missed them meeting cute and developing a pigtail tugging relationship. Help?

It was a set-up. She's Cyril's shrink.

[Mama No Life]

Michael Weatherly has gained weight.  His weight fluctuates a lot....when he's training he gets really small and then balloons back up. His suit jacket barely buttoned.

 

As far as Jeanne, I was worried they were going there, but in fact I felt like it was the opposite. When he told her he had a hole in his heart, I didn't get the impression it was her that caused it. In fact, he put that to rest when he told her he wish he could go back in time and end things after the Sudan so they were in a good place.  Not that he wanted her back.  She was always more in love with him than vice versa, and both she and her husband confirmed that tonight. I feel like this was the show's way of wrapping her up before his exit.

[marina to]

This was the first time I really felt like they might be making Tony leave to get back together with Jeanne. It was only an inkling, but I'm gonna be furious if they do. The Jeanne storyline is done. DONE.

 

Preach.

 

Michael Weatherly knocked it out of the park tonight.

[JessDVD]

This show is really not going to be as good without Tony. Sigh. Although I could get behind Taft replacing Tony. I know that would never happen.

 

OK, so I've never gone through heartbreak or finding out my dad is an arms dealer and now dead and all that and I know that grief does not know a timeline. But. All that stuff with Jeanne was season 4, right? So almost 10 years ago in the narrative of the show? Is it me or is that kind of a long time for Jeanne to still be hanging on to Tony? That stuff about feeling whole again, I think would make sense if it were maybe a year or two ago.

 

I totally missed the setup with the shrink. I was trying to figure out if it was one of Taft's coworkers.

 

More Ducky references. Always.

[GHScorpiosRule]

This was the first time I really felt like they might be making Tony leave to get back together with Jeanne. It was only an inkling, but I'm gonna be furious if they do. The Jeanne storyline is done. DONE.

 

For Fucking REAL. Grrrr....Tony is just too good for that fucking Jeanne, who appears not to have changed at ALL in the past 12 years.  Listen up, Chickie: your father was a fucking arms dealer/terrorist.  He was a bad guy. So even if he came to see you to talk to you about a case that might connect to your father, you have no fucking leg to stand on, in acting like a shrew toward him.  Hell, I'm gonna even say that your husband, David, is too good for you. Please, please, PLEASE let this be the last time I see your flat-faced, judgy carcas.

 

I like David, so I'm glad he wasn't involved.

 

And sorry, but the way Taft was acting, like, "I wanna be an agent! I wanna tag along! I wanna be an agent!" reminded me of this cartoon, with Taft being the red-headed demon:

 

 

And agree, Michael Weatherly was AWESOME tonight.  

 

McGee and Bishop can also STFU and stop getting on Tony's case about Jeanne. Especially Bishop, considering she's asked that Tony stop with all the Jake talk.

[Ohmo]

This could easily go in the UO thread, but it's related to this episode, so I'm going with here.  I HATE Dr. Taft, and I just figured out why.  He's the male version of Dr. Ryan, and I couldn't stand her either.

 

I understand that Gibbs is not the most socially-adjusted person in the world, but what I find just as annoying is being beaten over the head with people trying to "fix" Gibbs.  Ducky and Dr. Cranston (Kate's sister) do try to talk to Gibbs and offer advice without the air of "sanctimonious superiority" that wafts off of Taft and did waft off of Ryan.  There is nothing that I find genuine about the "friendship" that supposedly exists between Taft and Gibbs.  Gibbs and Ducky are friends...actual friends.  Taft treats Gibbs like some project or crusade, much like Ryan did.  Taft's dead son is total  eyeroll material.  Complete manipulation to try and get me to buy that there is a friendship between these two men.  Difference is, even in death, Kelly Gibbs has been an established character on this show for years.  She has history and a place on this canvas.  Paul's just an irritating plot point.

 

Tony and Jeanne, I like that Le Frog was actually mentioned and shown.  Thought it was a nice way to remind viewers that the history doesn't only include what happened between Jeanne and Tony.  La Granuoille (I still can't spell that) did engage in extensive criminal behavior. I don't know where we're headed, but I wouldn't mind either way.  Tony could end up with Jeanne, and I'd be fine, but he could leave with no romantic entanglements whatsoever, and I'd be good with that as well.

 

Just no Ziva, and please rid me of Taft.

[Ohmo]

When he told her he had a hole in his heart, I didn't get the impression it was her that caused it.

 

I thought what he was saying is that the hole in his heart came from the fact that he knows he caused her great pain years ago.  He knows that he was doing his job then, but I think he recognizes that there was a human toll to what happened.  On some level, Jeanne still struggles with the deception of Tony DiNardo, even though she's now married to David.  That was still evident tonight, and I think Tony DiNozzo does care about Jeanne.  It's difficult for him to see her struggle and know that he has played a role in creating that situation.

 

Michael was indeed awesome tonight.

[marina to]

On some level, Jeanne still struggles with the deception of Tony DiNardo, even though she's now married to David.  That was still evident tonight, and I think Tony DiNozzo does care about Jeanne.  It's difficult for him to see her struggle and know that he has played a role in creating that situation.

 

This. Knowing that you were being played like that, it's not your usual breakup. I can see how this would do a huge number on your ability to trust. That leaves a big hole. For Tony, knowing that you used someone like that, that you were capable of that, can leave a hole as well.

Edited February 24, 2016 by marina to

[MDL]

 

There is nothing that I find genuine about the "friendship" that supposedly exists between Taft and Gibbs.

I do find it genuine. They are both tough men, who have suffered a loss-the type of loss with which a "tough man" has trouble coping. Gibbs doesn't intimidate Taft, and vice versa.

I think that is the basis of their bond-mutual respect, and a level of toughness that keeps most people away, but one that each man can see through to the pain of the other.

[betsyboo]

This was the first time I really felt like they might be making Tony leave to get back together with Jeanne. It was only an inkling, but I'm gonna be furious if they do. The Jeanne storyline is done. DONE.

This was the first time I felt like it actually was done. They may have made puppy dog eyes at each other, but she very clearly said Goodbye. Plus, I think if they were going that way, he would have admitted he lied about loving her back at the elevator lo those many years ago.

 

I liked the Petty Officer. She can come back.

 

Not gonna lie - the Ducky Duckie Ducky does not get old for me. Hee. I really like Cyril. He has added a lot to this season, IMO.

 

I don't love LSG, but as long as she stays his therapist and not a love interest I'm ok.

 

As far as Jeanne, I was worried they were going there, but in fact I felt like it was the opposite. When he told her he had a hole in his heart, I didn't get the impression it was her that caused it. In fact, he put that to rest when he told her he wish he could go back in time and end things after the Sudan so they were in a good place.  Not that he wanted her back.  She was always more in love with him than vice versa, and both she and her husband confirmed that tonight. I feel like this was the show's way of wrapping her up before his exit.

Agreed.

Edited February 24, 2016 by betsyboo

[Ohmo]

This. Knowing that you were being played like that, it's not your usual breakup. I can see how this would do a huge number on your ability to trust. That leaves a big hole. For Tony, knowing that you used someone like that, that you were capable of that, can leave a hole as well.

 

Yes, and Jeanne was essentially used as a weapon against her father.  She may be spoiled, a bit clueless, and clingy, but she was certainly not a criminal involved in what her father did.  Jenny Shepard was an utterly worthless Director, IMO, who had absolutely no qualms about using people for her own whims.  She used Jeanne in the most intimate way possible.  Tony slept with her.  The audience knows that Tony had a conscience about that.  He was uncomfortable with the prospect of having sex with Jeanne and tried to get Jenny to dial her grand plan back a bit, but she was Madame Director.  I guess that's why I feel for both Tony and Jeanne.  Jeanne was in the midst of a long and planned deception, and Tony was in a no-win situation.  While in an ideal, perfect world, he should have stood up to the delusional redhead, it's very easy to say in hindsight that someone should have committed what would have been career suicide for Tony at the time.

 

I think that Tony also struggles with the fact that he tried to do the best by Jeanne at the time with the situation being the way it was, and he still couldn't spare her pain.  I also think that Tony may not romantically love Jeanne, but I think he loves her as a human being...especially because of what they experienced together and what that experience cost them both.  They are both different people because of what happened.

Edited February 24, 2016 by Ohmo

[betsyboo]

This could easily go in the UO thread, but it's related to this episode, so I'm going with here.  I HATE Dr. Taft, and I just figured out why.  He's the male version of Dr. Ryan, and I couldn't stand her either.

 

I understand that Gibbs is not the most socially-adjusted person in the world, but what I find just as annoying is being beaten over the head with people trying to "fix" Gibbs.  Ducky and Dr. Cranston (Kate's sister) do try to talk to Gibbs and offer advice without the air of "sanctimonious superiority" that wafts off of Taft and did waft off of Ryan.  There is nothing that I find genuine about the "friendship" that supposedly exists between Taft and Gibbs.  Gibbs and Ducky are friends...actual friends.  Taft treats Gibbs like some project or crusade, much like Ryan did.  Taft's dead son is total  eyeroll material.  Complete manipulation to try and get me to buy that there is a friendship between these two men.  Difference is, even in death, Kelly Gibbs has been an established character on this show for years.  She has history and a place on this canvas.  Paul's just an irritating plot point.

 

This is intriguing to me because I really like Dr. Taft and I HATED JLC with the heat of a thousand suns! I will have to think on this. I think the reason I like it is because they never show Gibbs with friends. Other than dead ones who call him Probie.

Edited February 24, 2016 by betsyboo

[TeapotDiva]

Jenny Shepard was an utterly worthless Director, IMO, who had absolutely no qualms about using people for her own whims. . . .  delusional redhead, . . .

Preach!  I have *never* been so glad to see a character leave NCIS!  Nothing against Lauren Holly, but between the Paris flashbacks and her jealousy of Hollis Mann and her simpering . . . .  I didn't want her to get shot, necessarily; she could have just retired and made scrapbooks about Gibbs, as long as she was gone.

[Julia]

I'm not excusing her later behavior, but Jeanne had every right to be furious about what happened. It was pretty clear by the end that Jenny put Tony in with her specifically because she wanted La Grenouille's daughter to be hurt as badly as she was and not because she thought it would get her any useful information. And Tony, who should have known better, let it go way too far. 

 

Of course, this being NCIS, that turned Jeanne into an equal and opposite bunny boiler who tried to frame Tony for murder, because the writers for this show appear to believe that the ovaries are the seat of insanity. Still, even if Jeanne knocked the dust of the high ground off her heels, she's got every right not to trust Tony on that subject. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by Julia

[betsyboo]

 

Of course, this being NCIS, that turned Jeanne into an equal and opposite bunny boiler who tried to frame Tony for murder, because the writers for this show appear to believe that the ovaries are the seat of insanity. Still, even if Jeanne knocked the dust of the high ground off her heels, she's got every right not to trust Tony on that subject. 

Adopting this argument immediately. (as a comeback --- clearly not in truth!)

Edited February 24, 2016 by betsyboo

[Ina123]

As Taft and Gibbs were leaving the chess game, Taft moved his pawn back. Cheater. LOL.

[pally]

This is intriguing to me because I really like Dr. Taft and I HATED JLC with the heat of a thousand suns! I will have to think on this. I think the reason I like it is because they never show Gibbs with friends. Other than dead ones who call him Probie.

Part of the problem is that JLC so overplayed the character that she wasn't believable and simply made the Doc unlikeable.  It takes a lot not to have any real chemistry with Mark Harmon but JLC succeeded with the way she played the role.   His relationhip with Cyril is, despite the intensity, is far more realistic.

Edited February 24, 2016 by pally

[Julia]

Part of the problem is that JLC so overplayed the character that she wasn't believable and simply made the Doc unlikeable.  It takes a lot not to have any real chemistry with Mark Harmon but JLC succeeded with the way she played the role.   His relationhip with Cyril is, despite the intensity, is far more realistic.

And that (Why yes, I do have a hobby horse. Listen to the realistic clip clop sounds while I take it around the ring) is a real tribute to the way women are written on this show, because they managed to have chemistry in the Lindsey Lohan remake of Freaky Friday. As you can imagine, they did not have too much help from the script doing that.

Did anyone like the JLC character? She was a smug powertripper who was obnoxious about using her massive psychological insight (and boy, were they predictably bad at writing psychological insight) to gaslight people because she enjoyed it. Then when the bad guy took the completely unexpected and out of the blue which absolutely no-one could have seen coming down 5th Avenue with sirens blaring step of saying he could get to her kid, she collapsed into a puddle of twitching protoplasm. Because she would never have gone into a career of poking them with pointy sticks if she wasn't counting on the terrorists to respect her boundaries.

Just, uck. But I don't know that anyone could have made more of that mess than JLC did.

[basiltherat]

Never liked Zhann, still don't like her, make her go away and not with Tony.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Never liked Zhann, still don't like her, make her go away and not with Tony.

 

Who?

 

Oh, do you mean, Jeanne?

[MissLucas]

I don't love LSG, but as long as she stays his therapist and not a love interest I'm ok.

Fat chance - they made her a red-head, right? (Not quite sure - the lighting in that scene wasn't very good.)

[JessDVD]

Did anyone like the JLC character? She was a smug powertripper who was obnoxious about using her massive psychological insight (and boy, were they predictably bad at writing psychological insight) to gaslight people because she enjoyed it. Then when the bad guy took the completely unexpected and out of the blue which absolutely no-one could have seen coming down 5th Avenue with sirens blaring step of saying he could get to her kid, she collapsed into a puddle of twitching protoplasm. Because she would never have gone into a career of poking them with pointy sticks if she wasn't counting on the terrorists to respect her boundaries.

Just, uck. But I don't know that anyone could have made more of that mess than JLC did.

 

In spite of that terrible writing, I did enjoy her character until the OMG MAH SON bit. Miles better than MAllison Hart IMO.

 

Jeanne- I get that she has every right to be furious with Tony over all of that (although her anger really should be directed at Jenny, may she not rest in peace), but I still get irritated at her punishing Tony over something that is his JOB, now at least. He was given a direct order by his direct supervisor, to ask Jeanne/David about their connections to doctors in Africa. Then when it turned out there was a connection to La Grenouille, what is he supposed to do, anyway? (I will concede that Gibbs could have asked someone else to go talk to her, although then she'd probably get her panties in a knot over Tony avoiding her, because as Julia has said, women are written terribly on this show)

[GHScorpiosRule]

Jeanne- I get that she has every right to be furious with Tony over all of that (although her anger really should be directed at Jenny, may she not rest in peace), but I still get irritated at her punishing Tony over something that is his JOB, now at least. He was given a direct order by his direct supervisor, to ask Jeanne/David about their connections to doctors in Africa. Then when it turned out there was a connection to La Grenouille, what is he supposed to do, anyway? (I will concede that Gibbs could have asked someone else to go talk to her, although then she'd probably get her panties in a knot over Tony avoiding her, because as Julia has said, women are written terribly on this show)

 

 

THIS. She was acting as if Tony had lied to her or betrayed her all over again, which, shrew, please (I'm trying to sort of clean up my language). Tony doesn't owe you a damned thing after you tried to frame him for your criminal ass father's murder.  And if he hadn't lied to you all those years ago, you wouldn't have met and fallen in love and married David, your husband, remember him? So you can just Shut UP.

[Julia]

In spite of that terrible writing, I did enjoy her character until the OMG MAH SON bit. Miles better than MAllison Hart IMO.

Oh, agreed. M Allison Hart was not just a woman, she was a defense lawyer and a liberal. The list of offensive stereotypes involved staggers the mind.

[Packerbrewerbadger]

What the heck was the blowing up of Jon Cryer's car? I called it the minute his wife went for the car but why???! You can't tell me the bad guys were mad because he didnt save the gunman! Did they ever explain why they were targeted ? Seriously!

[Ohmo]

Jeanne- I get that she has every right to be furious with Tony over all of that (although her anger really should be directed at Jenny, may she not rest in peace), but I still get irritated at her punishing Tony over something that is his JOB, now at least. He was given a direct order by his direct supervisor,

 

I wholeheartedly agree that Jeanne should have had the opportunity to set her phasers to stun on Jenny's pathetic ass, BUT I can also see why the "it's my job"/direct supervisor" idea doesn't work with Jeanne.  Tony was doing his job years ago and reporting to someone then as well...a job that entirely consisted of lying about who he was and the relationship that they were not really in.  I love me some Tony, but from Jeanne's point of view, I'd be irritated if my father, Tony, a potential lie, and Tony being ordered to do something all seemed to line up in a row again.  I know she jumped the gun about Tony lying this time, but it isn't like she doesn't have cause to feel that way.  Tony's done that to her before.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Ohmo

[GHScorpiosRule]

Tony may have lied to Jeanne before--but he was undercover and he was in a relationship with her, and despite following Jenny's orders, did also fall in love with her. So yes, back then, she had every right to be angry.

 

This time? They're not involved. They didn't rekindle their relationship, and his asking questions and investigating leading up to connections to her father, possibly looking like history was repeating itself, not even the same thing.

 

It's been 12 years.  They had made their peace the last time she showed up when Tony rescued her husband.  And she's married now.  So I can't get on board with because Tony lied to her in the past, even if it was part of his job, that she has cause to believe it again.  And that she couldn't see that Tony didn't know her father was involved when he said he didn't know...well, that's not Tony's fault.

[twoods]

Jeanne yet again....and still an insufferable bitch. I never liked her, and her having a hissy fit over her dad being mentioned was ridiculous. Yeah she has trust issues, but he was a bad guy! I hope this is the last we see of her. Her husband seems nice and reasonable- I feel sorry for him.

I like Gibbs new therapist but hope she's not a love interest. I've missed her on my screen.

I was thinking that the ATF guys were bad so glad they didn't go that route. Sick of other agencies getting dumbed down to make NCIS look so great.

Edited February 25, 2016 by twoods

[MyAimIsTrue]

I was thinking that the AFT guys were bad so glad they didn't go that route. Sick of other agencies getting dumbed down to make NCIS look so great.

 

That was my thought as well, that the ATF guy was going to be bad.  Pretty decent red herring if you ask me.

[MDL]

Does Jeanne's anger (which, IMO, is well deserved, but perhaps a bit too long lived) serve in part as a mask for her "below the surface" continued feelings for Tony?

Edited February 25, 2016 by MDL

[BigBeagle]

As someone who usually enjoys Jeanne episodes, this one really didn't paint her in a good light. I like the chemistry the actress has with Michael Weatherly, but their characters' 'ship has definitely sailed.

[JessDVD]

but from Jeanne's point of view, I'd be irritated if my father, Tony, a potential lie, and Tony being ordered to do something all seemed to line up in a row again.  

 

I do agree with this - I wouldn't fault her for the *feeling* of being irritated. I *do*, however, think it was a bad choice on behalf of the writers to have her punishing Tony for it, and if she were an actual person, would fault her for that. :-) (Right.... these people are fictional?!)

[stinkogingko]

I hope we're not going to be treated to frequent Gibbs therapy sessions. We already have enough people asking, "Do you have children, Agent Gibbs?" to remind us of How Much He Suffers. It was nice to see Gibbs show some concern for Taft but the thought of them sharing a therapist is a bit icky.

When did Gibbs start playing chess?

What kind of master criminal, pursued by two law enforcement agencies, blows up the doctor's car? Was it just another attempt to get at Gibbs through his sort-of loved ones? RIP, Diane.

I was surprised at Jeanne's attitude because I thought they parted on good terms. I sign on to the theory that she's realized she's not yet at ease with him and that's why she was on high alert right away and went to 11 over her father. It's a messy situation. I think this was the last we'll see of Jeanne, but I could easily believe she's still in love with Tony--and Tony hadn't considered that possibility until she made the turning the clock back farther remark.

I don't doubt that Tony was in love with Jeanne; he said it more than once after the breakup, when there was no need to maintain the deception.

Can you be a homewrecker without actually pursuing someone? If you realize an old flame's not extinguished, should you stay married anyway, absent a strong religious conviction? I thought the problem with Jake was the lying and the sneaking around, not that he came to feel the marriage wasn't satisfactory.

[Andyourlittledog2]

I like Jon Cryer but gawd his Dr Cyril character drives me batshit up the wall. I wish NCIS would stop trying to make him 'happen'. Ruins the entire episode for me. 

[catray]

I'm known to not be the biggest Jeanne fan, but I think her defensiveness/anger about her father (even though it's been 10 years) is not unwarrented. Whatever mutual feelings she and Tony had, he still used her-- not to mention, her father had an entire life that she was oblivious to. She probably needs therapy, but I think it's understandable that when the whole weapons thing came up, she immediately brought up her father and the previous investigation. I did feel bad for Tony, though, who honestly did not want or mean to drag Jeanne into the current investigation and was not trying to hurt her.

My personal opinion is that after this episode, I think the door is (or should be) closed on Jeanne and Tony ever getting together. I think the conversation they had at the end of episode, while it could be ambiguous on what exactly they would change if they could go back in time, pretty firmly sounds like they can't go back and just start again. I think by Tony saying he would only go back to the Sudan incident and not actually back to the beginning of the whole Frog investigation tells Jeanne that while he regrets what happened, he would do it again because it's his job. IMO anyway. I think Jeanne saying she would go back all the way could also be read as having never to want to meet Tony, but again, could be ambiguous. Personally, I want the door closed and I do not want Jeanne to leave her marriage for Tony (or for Tony to disrupt and break up her marriage) so that might be affecting my interpretation.

Moving on... I like Dr. Taft and I feel like his wanting to be in on the investigation is basically the role of audience member in this episode-- I'm sure we've all had times when we thought it would be awesome to kick ass and take names as a special agent, forgetting that it can be dangerous and sometimes, tedious. So I thought his excitement over being involved was natural for someone who, like us, only really sees cops/FBI/etc on TV where it's glamorous and thrilling.

I liked that Gibbs totally caught on to what Taft was up to at the end, but went along with it anyway. Nice to see Laura San Giacomo again... I feel like I haven't seen her in anything since Just Shoot Me.

Looking forward to seeing Delilah again next week!

[Ohmo]

I'm known to not be the biggest Jeanne fan, but I think her defensiveness/anger about her father (even though it's been 10 years) is not unwarrented. Whatever mutual feelings she and Tony had, he still used her-- not to mention, her father had an entire life that she was oblivious to. She probably needs therapy, but I think it's understandable that when the whole weapons thing came up, she immediately brought up her father and the previous investigation. I did feel bad for Tony, though, who honestly did not want or mean to drag Jeanne into the current investigation and was not trying to hurt her.

My personal opinion is that after this episode, I think the door is (or should be) closed on Jeanne and Tony ever getting together. I think the conversation they had at the end of episode, while it could be ambiguous on what exactly they would change if they could go back in time, pretty firmly sounds like they can't go back and just start again. I think by Tony saying he would only go back to the Sudan incident and not actually back to the beginning of the whole Frog investigation tells Jeanne that while he regrets what happened, he would do it again because it's his job. IMO anyway. I think Jeanne saying she would go back all the way could also be read as having never to want to meet Tony, but again, could be ambiguous. Personally, I want the door closed and I do not want Jeanne to leave her marriage for Tony (or for Tony to disrupt and break up her marriage) so that might be affecting my interpretation.

 

I agree with the first paragraph, catray. I think Jeanne saying she wants to go back earlier is her saying that she would have liked to have met Tony DiNozzo and see what he was like as a person. She only met the "real" Tony after he told her he wasn't Tony DiNardo, and that revelation has colored whatever has come after that.  I'm with you as to the ambiguity. She could (or could not) be thinking that in terms of what might have been romantically, but I think her "going back" was referring to having the chance to meet the "real" Tony.

 

Tony may have lied to Jeanne before--but he was undercover and he was in a relationship with her, and despite following Jenny's orders, did also fall in love with her. So yes, back then, she had every right to be angry.

 

This time? They're not involved. They didn't rekindle their relationship, and his asking questions and investigating leading up to connections to her father, possibly looking like history was repeating itself, not even the same thing.

 

It's been 12 years.  They had made their peace the last time she showed up when Tony rescued her husband...

 

GHScorpiosRule, you know I often agree with you, but in this case, I don't.  The fact that Jeanne and Tony are not in a relationship does not even enter into it for me.  The optics of the situation are this (in my opinion).  Tony got romantic with Jeanne years ago, but even if Jenny had told him to be completely platonic, the relationship would still have been started and based on a lie.  Fast forward to now.  I agree with you that Tony and Jeanne made peace last time, but I could see that potentially not working in Tony's favor in this situation.  If I were Jeanne, and I walked into a room where my father's picture was on the plasma, and Tony (of all people) was the one saying "This isn't about your father," I'd be pissed, and it would have zero to do with romance.

 

A) I'm staring at a picture of my father and you (Tony) lied to me for nine solid months about a situation involving my father. Why should I believe that you're telling me the truth now?  You had no problems lying to me before when it suited you.

B) I'd then wonder as to why you actually rescued my husband.  Was it a way to play me again?  Your deception took a long time to unfold the last time, and it was rather elaborate.  I'd wonder about that, especially since I'm staring at a picture of dear old Dad, here at NCIS, with you.

 

I'm a suspicious person by nature, and I know that,  I also don't trust easily after someone's messed with me, and I think that's where Jeanne is with Tony. I think she likes (and probably even loves him) on some level.  I think she wants to be able to trust him, but I don't think she does (and she may not ever be completely able to). The entire reason they met in the first place was because of a lie.  This isn't even a case of being messed with and having to rebuild trust.  Jeanne and Tony never started with trust, regardless of what type of relationship they had then or have now.

 

I disagree with the general comment that I've seen a couple times in this thread that Jeanne "punished" Tony.  I don't think she did that at all. i think many people base their interactions with anyone on how they have interacted with that person in the past. Unfortunately for Tony, his relationship with Jeanne has included sustained deception. Instinctively, when dealing with Tony, I think that reality is always going to be somewhere in Jeanne's thought pattern.  It is what they have done in the past and what Jeanne likely tries to guard against in the future, even if she overreacts.  "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice. shame on me." She's not going to allow herself to be fooled by Tony again.

 

I like Tony, and I liked S4 in the sense that what happened brought about the maturing of Tony. At the same time, he can say he's sorry all he wants, genuinely mean it, want the best for Jeanne, and all of that, but he can never completely undo what he did.  Unless he and Jeanne spend a lot of time together (and no, I'm not talking specifically about romance) so they can build a friendship based on who they actually are, I think Tony's going to have to accept that Jeanne will never completely trust him...and that's even more true if her father is part of the conversation.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Ohmo

[GHScorpiosRule]

That's okay, Ohmo. We don't have to agree on everthing, hee!

 

My irritation with Jeanne started, not when she saw her father's picture on the plasma, but when she saw Tony speaking with David, her husband, and just assumed it had been his plan all along, or whatever it was she said. Then again, like with my loathing for Ziva, has never been a secret, neither is my hate and loathing for Jeanne.

[marina to]

What the heck was the blowing up of Jon Cryer's car? I called it the minute his wife went for the car but why???! You can't tell me the bad guys were mad because he didnt save the gunman! Did they ever explain why they were targeted ? Seriously!

Just rewatched. It's a throwaway line about retaliation for Taft not saving the bad guy. Shoddily done, show.