DeLurker February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 Just got done reading some of those posts linked to - the ones with the really vile things to say. It really is a mystery how someone can still hold this kind of rancid hate and exist in the current world. It makes me very sad as I get the impression that they are so married to these beliefs that you can't have a meaningful dialogue with them. It's like talking politics with one of my brother's - he is hard core in his outlook and nothing will make a dent in his stance. And he gets loud and ugly if anyone dares take a differing opinion. So on that note - let me send out a collective hug of appreciation for all the posters here! There's been some great discussion (even if some of you are misguided :<) you almost always compose a decent analysis that supports your position) and always a good dose of snark! 7 Link to comment
cynic February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 http://tvline.com/2015/02/23/sleepy-hollow-season-2-finale-tom-mison-ichabod-abbie-katrina/ Interview with Mison. I am optimistic! I loved that interview for being unafraid of showing that Mison had issues with this season and for acknowledging the obvious attempts at change. We were glad to get that feeling of excitement back in the last episode too, Tom! This makes me even more hopeful for tonight and (hopefully) next season. 5 Link to comment
Blackhoney February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 Tom and Neil Jackson are going to be at Birmingham Comic Con. That is great news and may be a sign the show will be renewed. 1 Link to comment
CocoaGoddess February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 Yes Tom, my britches are firmly buckled and in no danger of falling! Great interview! I like that he pointed out that you can be completely invested in Ichabbie in a non romantic kind of way, which a lot of us are! 5 Link to comment
jhlipton February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 IMDB is like the founding father of internet trolling and bigotry. The IMDB boards I've seen are mild compared to some YouTube comments. That's where a lot of the threats against female gamers came from. Ugh. It's hard to see how anyone can deny the racism and misogyny that is still so pervasive in the US with all these noxious comments around. 4 Link to comment
Sparkling Beth February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 The IMDB boards I've seen are mild compared to some YouTube comments. That's where a lot of the threats against female gamers came from. Ugh. It's hard to see how anyone can deny the racism and misogyny that is still so pervasive in the US with all these noxious comments around. I was reading that Shitty Hollow page and was struck by the same thing that others have mentioned--namely, how quick the racists are to call others racists. You see it in certain political circles. "You're the racist, because you always have to bring race into the discussion whenever I say something racist!" It makes me just want to drop my head in my hands and moan. 6 Link to comment
archiesmom February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 TVLINE | The last episode had several callbacks to the series premiere, with Abbie in the road at the end and the string cover of “Sympathy for the Devil.”Oh man. I hadn’t heard that version of “Sympathy for the Devil.” Raven told me it’s what they were planning, some of it shot-for-shot mirroring the pilot. I got very excited when he told me that. I just watched it. I got the kind of shivery excitement that I used to get at the beginning of the first season, which was such a nice relief to feel that, to just laugh and say “This is so cool” again. I think that’s what a lot of viewers have been waiting for. This answer stuck out to me. Considering the Crane Family Drama started in the middle of the first season, I don't think it takes a lot of reading betwen the lines to assume he was just as bored with it as we were. I don't really like getting into the shipping talk, especially when this show needs fixing elsewhere but he's really not convincing in trying to explain Abbie and Ichabod's dynamic in a platonic way. I find it hard to believe he's not aware that some people, can and will, read into everything. I'm really excited for tonights episode. I feel like I'm waiting for the Season 2 premiere all over again. 4 Link to comment
DeLurker February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 Spent some time spelunking at the SH message board on IMDB. I unexpectedly found a number of posters who gave civil and well thought out responses to some of the more vile comments (like posted at Shitty Hollow). There efforts to have a meaningful exchange was futile though as the off-balanced poster resorted to name calling and counter-accusations. A quick google search on tonight's ep has been getting very favorable reviews. i09 - Sleepy Hollow is Must Watch TV Again AV Club - Sleepy Hollow Re-writes History - Again 2 Link to comment
pcta February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 And the sneak peek linked in I09 blurb above from TV Guide. I suppose a little spoilery (?) http://www.tvguide.com/news/sleepy-hollow-finale-sneak-peek-ichabod-abbie-1700s/ Link to comment
LydiaMoon1 February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 UNPOPULAR OPINION:Campaign to keep SH on the air? No, thanks. It's the responsibility of the show's creators/showrunner/writers/cast and crew to deliver a show I want to watch. Their jobs depend upon it. If they can't or won't deliver, I'll just find something else.Plus, I hate when I begin watching one show, only to have it morph into a completely different show. That’s why I stopped watching this show early in Season Two, and why I probably won’t watch in Season Three (if there is one). Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind about not watching Season Three. Link to comment
savinggrace February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 From watching the sneak peek clips, I'm finding past Ichabod to be hotter than present Ichabod. Perhaps it's because he's assured of himself in his past surroundings whereas the writers have made him into an almost cartoonish idiot during some parts of the season 2. All the waffling back-andiforth over Katrina just wasn't sexy. 3 Link to comment
phoenics February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 IMDB message boards are the worst. I visited the Flash forum last night and one poster was fantasizing about the most horrible ways to kill off Iris (the leading female and main love interest who happens to be black). Another poster replied that the Flash should just speed her back in time to 1950's Alabama. And this isn't the first time I've seen crap like that directed at her. She was getting flack from "fans" since she was cast, before the show even premiered. And don't get me started in the boards when the Star Wars Episode VII trailer came out with John Boyega. I wonder if the creator of the SH tumbler page would be willing to add another calling out general fandom racism. I think there is one like that for Sleepy Hollow (the sh1tty hollow page - but maybe it should be broadened... the hatred against Iris has been pretty bad from the beginning (even though quite a few fans keep trying to pretend like it doesn't really exist or it's just a fringe element - or that it has NOTHING at ALLLLL to do with the insta-shipping of the male lead with the only other female character on the show who just happens to be white). After the season finale of Sleepy Hollow I feel like I need to go on a campaign to protect Candice Patton on The Flash... http://tvline.com/2015/02/23/sleepy-hollow-season-2-finale-tom-mison-ichabod-abbie-katrina/ Interview with Mison. I am optimistic! I started reading and then realized I didn't want to be spoiled anymore - so I'm just gonna watch and chat in the shady chat and be excited and surprised in the moment!! I'm so excited - everyone else's excitement is enough for me... 1 Link to comment
topanga February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 I don't really like getting into the shipping talk, especially when this show needs fixing elsewhere but he's really not convincing in trying to explain Abbie and Ichabod's dynamic in a platonic way. I find it hard to believe he's not aware that some people, can and will, read into everything. But Mison said he wasn't talking about Abbie and Crane romantically when he said they were destined to be together, be it the 18th century or the 21st century. 1 Link to comment
fantique February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 I was reading that Shitty Hollow page and was struck by the same thing that others have mentioned--namely, how quick the racists are to call others racists. You see it in certain political circles. "You're the racist, because you always have to bring race into the discussion whenever I say something racist!" It makes me just want to drop my head in my hands and moan. How does talking about race reflect racism? That's my number one alarm, when someone feels uncomfortable calling me black and uses euphemisms like "with your skin tone" or "dark skinned". It's like yeah mate, I have a skin tone and it's dark but since that is used for someone who tans well and for actual black people you've got to be more specific. I get a sick pleasure out of getting it out of their mouth. I'm simply horrified that these people are actually speaking so openly on a public forum. I have contempt so deeply ingrained towards racists/bigots of any kind that it is mind boggling that these people actually, openly express those views. I mean, everywhere I grew up until coming to University in the US, if anyone figures out the identity of such commenters they would be shunned. I am getting second hand embarrassment on their behalf. Such lack of civility and decorum is so undignified. Honestly, racist people need to understand the new status quo: keep their crazy inside the house. If someone is racist, I want them far away from me, my name off their lips, their faces out of my sight. Such failures at human decency don't get "freedom of expression" in my book. They can get an education and a functioning brain first. 7 Link to comment
DJG1122 February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 But Mison said he wasn't talking about Abbie and Crane romantically when he said they were destined to be together, be it the 18th century or the 21st century. Yet...... I'm simply horrified that these people are actually speaking so openly on a public forum. I have contempt so deeply ingrained towards racists/bigots of any kind that it is mind boggling that these people actually, openly express those views. I mean, everywhere I grew up until coming to University in the US, if anyone figures out the identity of such commenters they would be shunned. I am getting second hand embarrassment on their behalf. Such lack of civility and decorum is so undignified. Honestly, racist people need to understand the new status quo: keep their crazy inside the house. If someone is racist, I want them far away from me, my name off their lips, their faces out of my sight. Such failures at human decency don't get "freedom of expression" in my book. They can get an education and a functioning brain first. And I apologize for the rudeness and ignorance of my countrymen. 1 Link to comment
cynic February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 How does talking about race reflect racism? That's my number one alarm, when someone feels uncomfortable calling me black and uses euphemisms like "with your skin tone" or "dark skinned". It's like yeah mate, I have a skin tone and it's dark but since that is used for someone who tans well and for actual black people you've got to be more specific. I get a sick pleasure out of getting it out of their mouth. I'm simply horrified that these people are actually speaking so openly on a public forum. I have contempt so deeply ingrained towards racists/bigots of any kind that it is mind boggling that these people actually, openly express those views. I mean, everywhere I grew up until coming to University in the US, if anyone figures out the identity of such commenters they would be shunned. I am getting second hand embarrassment on their behalf. Such lack of civility and decorum is so undignified. Honestly, racist people need to understand the new status quo: keep their crazy inside the house. If someone is racist, I want them far away from me, my name off their lips, their faces out of my sight. Such failures at human decency don't get "freedom of expression" in my book. They can get an education and a functioning brain first. It's not that certain people say these things that surprise me, there always have and always will be racists. It's the reaction from others that get me, everything from denying racism exists/has an impact to expecting people to just out up with it/stop being "so sensitive" to accusing others of being racist for being offended by racism. Just today there was a newscaster who used "jiggaboo" in a broadcast. She rightfully caught flack for it and still many have leapt to her defense saying how people should just let "slips of the tongue" go and how they can't believe how she is being attacked by so much hate. Ugh. I remember when SH first started how people complained how there were too many black people on this show and how it was all due to reverse racism. Like hello, maybe they just cast the best actors and it just happened to end up that way. You know, just like how everyone always claims that majority white casts happen. I'm just glad that other minority-led and diverse casted shows are doing so well this year and have been lauded. It's a shame that SH couldn't be included in their number because the showrunners were either too in love with their muse and/or had too little faith in the American public to believe that they would continue to embrace a mainly minority show despite the original high ratings. 4 Link to comment
archiesmom February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 (edited) But Mison said he wasn't talking about Abbie and Crane romantically when he said they were destined to be together, be it the 18th century or the 21st century. I know but I was commenting on not being convinced. Even the lady interviewing him called him out on it. He seems smart enough to be able to describe their relationship in a deep platonic way. Instead, he's waxing poetic about them being drawn together no matter the time or place and giving interviews saying he's completely or hopelessly in love with Abbie. I guess what I'm trying to say is playing dumb about shippers and how they read into his answers seems silly. Perhaps it's fanservice. And this is exactly why I try to stay away from shipping stuff. In regards to IMDB message boards, that place is and always will be a cesspool. You can wade through hundreds of ignorant messages and maybe find one good thread. Not worth my time at all. That tumblr post is eye opening but not surprising. For some reason people all over twitter and other social media feel comfortable enough to make such disgusting comments and then get offended when someone questions them. This goes for SH and everything else in the world. Also, how did I not know there is a roleplaying Ichabod out there who's completely lost it over this season. It's hilarious and scary at the same time. Edited February 23, 2015 by archiesmom Link to comment
phoenics February 23, 2015 Share February 23, 2015 (edited) Well in slightly more sane news, FB has this promo up for the finale, where they ask who will make the ultimate sacrifice... It's like comment after comment: Katrina! LOL. It made me smile - even though I doubt that we'll be that lucky. https://www.facebook.com/SleepyHollow/photos/a.467368516675119.1073741828.467026763375961/807880275957273/?type=1&theater Also, you can "Ask Headless" tonight on twitter during the finale... https://www.facebook.com/SleepyHollow/photos/a.467368516675119.1073741828.467026763375961/808248959253738/?type=1&theater Edited February 23, 2015 by phoenics Link to comment
blixie February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Just today there was a newscaster who used "jiggaboo" in a broadcast. I just used bugaboo the other day and it's interesting that means object of imaginary fear (considering that racism I think evolves out of imaginary fears), but I was suspicious of it's true etymology. Yes S2 saddened me most because SH was leading the way in terms of diversity my fav S1 pic was of Nikki, John, Lindie, Orlando, and Tom the token white dude in the main cast, it was lovely that the network was proud of having intentionally worked for that, but that it looked and felt "natural" and easy in action. Link to comment
BrokenRemote February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 One thing it's important to remember is that Goffman could be removed but remain in name only. I recall that there was a major debacle behind the scenes at NCIS early in the show's run and Donald Bellisario was kicked out. He had not one thing to do with the show thereafter, but he has an executive producer credit on the show to this day. So you might see Goffman still credited long after he's gone, as part of some deal to move him on and let him save face or whatever. Not saying he deserves that, but it happens, and it'd be a shame for people to refuse to watch until he's gone and have them miss out if the show's back to being good. I guess what I'm saying is that it's everyone's prerogative to watch or not watch, but some may benefit from judging the quality rather than the names that show up in the credits. 4 Link to comment
BigEasygirl February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Spoiler alert! Wow! Just...damn! https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=808281425917158&set=vb.467026763375961&type=2&theater 3 Link to comment
CocoaGoddess February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 It's not that certain people say these things that surprise me, there always have and always will be racists. It's the reaction from others that get me, everything from denying racism exists/has an impact to expecting people to just out up with it/stop being "so sensitive" to accusing others of being racist for being offended by racism. Just today there was a newscaster who used "jiggaboo" in a broadcast. She rightfully caught flack for it and still many have leapt to her defense saying how people should just let "slips of the tongue" go and how they can't believe how she is being attacked by so much hate. Ugh. I remember when SH first started how people complained how there were too many black people on this show and how it was all due to reverse racism. Like hello, maybe they just cast the best actors and it just happened to end up that way. You know, just like how everyone always claims that majority white casts happen. I'm just glad that other minority-led and diverse casted shows are doing so well this year and have been lauded. It's a shame that SH couldn't be included in their number because the showrunners were either too in love with their muse and/or had too little faith in the American public to believe that they would continue to embrace a mainly minority show despite the original high ratings. What what what? Why does it have to be this way? WHY? Does anyone complain about The Good Wife being too white? Or Bones, or Supernatural, or Parenthood or The Mentalist or any of the other dozens upon dozens of shows with predominantly white casts? So tired of having to explain away stuff like this, it's life, we exist, and they will deal with it. If I can watch any of the shows above and not get agitated when I'm confronted with endless white representation, then those mouth breathers can do the same when they have a grand total of THREE Black people on one show. I mean for crying out loud, they still got their alpha white male lead, wtf are they complaining for? I like the climate of television right now and all of the variety we have, it reminds me highly of the time I considered to be the renaissance of television--Roseanne, A Different World, Martin, Living Single, The Golden Girls, Cosby, Friends, Seinfeld, NYPD Blue, etc--where there's something for EVERYONE to watch. I love White people, but I don't want to watch every single show be about them finding creative ways to shoot the shit in New York. Please, diversity is great for us all. 7 Link to comment
DearEvette February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Here is some more Mison being candid, haven't seen this one before: http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/sleepy-hollow-season-2-finale-tom-mison-1201439685/ I liked this quote: I personally really enjoyed watching Nicole’s portrayal of Abbie, keeping herself under wraps. Abbie is someone who speaks her mind and we all love an Abbie Mills eye roll, and it’s nice to see her try and play restrained. I enjoyed that a lot. And also regarding a possible redemption for Katrina (already with this?): But in Ichabod’s mind, she’s been twisted completely and there’s no turning back. Henry has won the tug-of-war with Katrina in the middle, which can’t be easy. And wait? What? I don't remember the finer details of Sanctuary or The Golem, but I thought Grace was married to a black man? There’s been a lot of mentions of Grace Dixon. She’s quite a rarity in that she is a free woman, married to a white chap, and so that’s going to be your first port of call. Link to comment
gik910 February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 http://tvline.com/2015/02/23/sleepy-hollow-season-3-spoilers-mark-goffman/ Goffman's take after the finale. Here is the first Q/A TVLINE | So now we have Hawley gone, Katrina and Henry dead, and a re-focus on Abbie and Ichabod as partners: Is this a reset of the series, based on fans’ sometimes harsh feedback throughout the season, or were these past two episodes the plan all along? This had very much been the plan from the beginning. It just took a while to get there. But we always wanted to keep the show focused on them and always knew that some form of this was going to be the ending. Of course, you always want to give yourself room during the course of the season to see how things are playing and see how audiences are reacting, how the writers are reacting, how the cast is meshing, but ultimately, this really felt like the right way to end both this season and launch Season 3. So, I am going to call bullshit on this answer, BUT I'll give it a pass because I am so relieved about what happened. But yeah- bullshit answer. 4 Link to comment
BestestAuntEver February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Wow, he's really using his political writing skills to shovel the BS. Link to comment
blixie February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Lying liar lies. I love when dudes are like we always INTENDED to alienate our entire audience it was the plan allll along! 5 Link to comment
phoenics February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Utter BULLSH1T. Goffman - we don't believe you AT ALL... none of you. If that was the plan - WHY was your show nearly canceled? Fools. 3 Link to comment
kieyra February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 "Yeah, it was the plan that we would alienate our audience so badly that we'd lose half of it and the other half would be begging us to kill off our erstwhile new lead actress." Okay, Goff. #missionaccomplished 8 Link to comment
Yolapukka February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I think they may have had a plan to do this eventually, but it was likely intended to run on longer than it already had and we were supposed to love, love, love Katrina in the meantime and perhaps even clamour for her to spin off into her own show when she had served her purpose in this part of the Sleepy Hollow universe. 1 Link to comment
BrokenRemote February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) What what what? Why does it have to be this way? WHY? Does anyone complain about The Good Wife being too white? Or Bones, or Supernatural, or Parenthood or The Mentalist or any of the other dozens upon dozens of shows with predominantly white casts? So tired of having to explain away stuff like this, it's life, we exist, and they will deal with it. If I can watch any of the shows above and not get agitated when I'm confronted with endless white representation, then those mouth breathers can do the same when they have a grand total of THREE Black people on one show. I mean for crying out loud, they still got their alpha white male lead, wtf are they complaining for? I like the climate of television right now and all of the variety we have, it reminds me highly of the time I considered to be the renaissance of television--Roseanne, A Different World, Martin, Living Single, The Golden Girls, Cosby, Friends, Seinfeld, NYPD Blue, etc--where there's something for EVERYONE to watch. I love White people, but I don't want to watch every single show be about them finding creative ways to shoot the shit in New York. Please, diversity is great for us all. You know, it's funny--I noticed John Cho and the fact that they had an asian character as a sign of diversity more than I noticed how many black characters there were. It just felt, I dunno, like the best, most amazing actors got chosen. It wasn't until they brought on Hawley that it really struck me that, hey, there are (well, used to be) more black leads than white. It was just good, so good that there was too much awesome going on to notice what color skin everyone had. And it makes me sad that there are people who would basically sit and do a tally, and decide a show was a "black show". (Or that show runners would do a tally and say, hey, we need more white characters.). It makes me angry that any of us had to think about how people were being treated based on skin color when we should have been able to focus on being entertained.What also makes me angry? (As angry as Goffman trying to say this was the plan all along?). That Goffman, if he truly wrote the finale, had that talent in him, and utterly wasted it being fixated on Katia Winters'...whatever. (Talent? Corset?) Edited February 24, 2015 by BrokenRemote 14 Link to comment
RiddleyWalker February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 You know, it's funny--I noticed John Cho and the fact that they had an asian character as a sign of diversity more than I noticed how many black characters there were. It just felt, I dunno, like the best, most amazing actors got chosen. It wasn't until they brought on Hawley that it really struck me that, hey, there are (well, used to be) more black leads than white. It was just good, so good that there was too much awesome going on to notice what color skin everyone had. And it makes me sad that there are people who would basically sit and do a tally, and decide a show was a "black show". (Or that show runners would do a tally and say, hey, we need more white characters.). It makes me angry that any of us had to think about how people were being treated based on skin color when we should have been able to focus on being entertained. I so, so wish I could give more than one "like' to a post… So well said…. I can't add any more. 4 Link to comment
phoenics February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) You know, it's funny--I noticed John Cho and the fact that they had an asian character as a sign of diversity more than I noticed how many black characters there were. It just felt, I dunno, like the best, most amazing actors got chosen. It wasn't until they brought on Hawley that it really struck me that, hey, there are (well, used to be) more black leads than white. It was just good, so good that there was too much awesome going on to notice what color skin everyone had. And it makes me sad that there are people who would basically sit and do a tally, and decide a show was a "black show". (Or that show runners would do a tally and say, hey, we need more white characters.). It makes me angry that any of us had to think about how people were being treated based on skin color when we should have been able to focus on being entertained. What also makes me angry? (As angry as Goffman trying to say this was the plan all along?). That Goffman, if he truly wrote the finale, had that talent in him, and utterly wasted it being fixated on Katia Winters'...whatever. (Talent? Corset?) I want to marry this post and have its babies. Edited February 24, 2015 by phoenics 2 Link to comment
gik910 February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) What also makes me angry? (As angry as Goffman trying to say this was the plan all along?). That Goffman, if he truly wrote the finale, had that talent in him, and utterly wasted it being fixated on Katia Winters'...whatever. (Talent? Corset?) This! So much this. This episode was a callback to early season one, in more ways than the obvious parallels. All the little character moments (Ichabod's interaction with technology), the comedy (Franklin), the holy crap! moments (Franklin beheaded), and using the natural chemistry Tom & Nicole have together. Which means Goffman knows it is there! You do not have to ship them to appreciate that they work well together. I am so enjoying the comments in that article now though....the Katrina fans are there to defend. Also, I miss Andy. Can John Cho come back for Season 3? Edited February 24, 2015 by gik910 3 Link to comment
kieyra February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I can honestly say it was never about race for me, at least not past the initial episodes where they deftly handled Ichabod's reaction to Abbie without it being a thing. After that it was just "wow, these two have chemistry off the charts!" Then: "no, don't bring back the wife! the story doesn't work with her alive!" Then: "and a son, too? ugh. also that actress sucks and the corset/jeans thing was cheap." Then: "I am so done. I'm going to check out the bitterness thread." And only then did I find out how sketch it had all been. I know that "I'm colorblind!" lately is shorthand for "I don't want to take the time to think about these complicated and painful issues," but I really was just enjoying the show and the cast without doing any quotas in my head until they decided to nuke the whole thing. And I suspect I wasn't the only one, which means their racially diverse cast was working just fine until they decided to "fix" it. 7 Link to comment
tennisgurl February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Honestly, I wish Goffman had just admitted that he and the writers screwed up season two, spent too much time on Katrina, his favorite character, and had to do re-writes to course correct the last half of the season. He might not come off looking like a master story teller, but at least its honest. I could have kind of respected that. But no... 8 Link to comment
gik910 February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) I know that "I'm colorblind!" lately is shorthand for "I don't want to take the time to think about these complicated and painful issues," but I really was just enjoying the show and the cast without doing any quotas in my head until they decided to nuke the whole thing. And I suspect I wasn't the only one, which means their racially diverse cast was working just fine until they decided to "fix" it. I'm just going to hang out here for the rest of the night I guess. Again, I have to second this. I started this show because I love genre television. Revisionist history, magic, fantasy, all that is my jam! I didn't know who Nicole or Tom were (I did know John & Orlando- who was the biggest acting draw for me.) When I started to read about it- after I was already hooked, that is when I realized what a big deal it was as a diverse cast. And then they tried to kill it. And they utterly misused John Noble (which might be a bigger crime for me than Katrina...no. She was the worst, but what they did with him was close.) So this hard reset is a good thing. I'll be waiting for the renewal! Edited February 24, 2015 by gik910 4 Link to comment
phoenics February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I'm not listening to him anyway - just abaiers... even if he did overhype the Ichabbie hug. I can honestly say it was never about race for me, at least not past the initial episodes where they deftly handled Ichabod's reaction to Abbie without it being a thing. After that it was just "wow, these two have chemistry off the charts!" Then: "no, don't bring back the wife! the story doesn't work with her alive!" Then: "and a son, too? ugh. also that actress sucks and the corset/jeans thing was cheap." Then: "I am so done. I'm going to check out the bitterness thread." And only then did I find out how sketch it had all been. I know that "I'm colorblind!" lately is shorthand for "I don't want to take the time to think about these complicated and painful issues," but I really was just enjoying the show and the cast without doing any quotas in my head until they decided to nuke the whole thing. And I suspect I wasn't the only one, which means their racially diverse cast was working just fine until they decided to "fix" it. I'm black and this is how I felt too (except I did feel pride at seeing a leading black female on a genre show) - until Goffman's horrible "tokenized" writing forced me to face the reality of what was happening. 4 Link to comment
pcta February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Yes, for me race became an issue when the all 3 black cast members were pushed aside to service the new white characters. 4 Link to comment
TwistedandBored February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I don't believe Goffman at all. I remember a while back someone brought an interview KW did with TVGuide and I wrote she sounded like she didn't know which ending we would get during the season finale. I believe there was different ending filmed and most of the actors didn't know which ending we would get. You can tell during the episode that some scenes were shot earlier while other were filmed recently. So, Goffman is doing what KW has been doing lately. Saving face and possibly his job. A drowning man if I ever saw one! 3 Link to comment
archiesmom February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 I do love how Goffman says this was the plan it just took a while to get there. As if he wasn't in charge of the crappy storylines all season. They literally had Katrina get rescued and go back to Abraham three times in eight episodes. Dude, you stretched this out. The second to the last episode could've been the mid-season finale with Katrina being introduced to the darkside with Henry and still ended like it did tonight. It would've been ten times more interesting. He's FOS for sure. I'm still confused by this yahoo. He's written the two strongest episodes this season. Mind blowing really. 5 Link to comment
MissAlmond February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) Also, how did I not know there is a roleplaying Ichabod out there who's completely lost it over this season. It's hilarious and scary at the same time. This is why, if I were in the entertainment business, I would never expose myself so freely on social media. One wouldn't know if this Ichabod roleplaying character is the type to now spend his time sulking while posting more notes about his "lost love". Or is he one of those who will stalk and kidnap you to demand new episodes be written or he'll take care of things Annie Wilkes style. Edited February 24, 2015 by MissAlmond 1 Link to comment
DeLurker February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Also, how did I not know there is a roleplaying Ichabod out there who's completely lost it over this season. It's hilarious and scary at the same time. What? Will someone please give me a summary or link? Link to comment
CocoaGoddess February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Ichabod Crane RPG twiiter account: https://twitter.com/NoFirstIShotHim He is simply delightful. His tears are even more delicious reading it post finale. 5 Link to comment
jenrising February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) https://twitter.com/nofirstishothim Looks like a lot of the really um... interesting posts are gone. Here's a screenshot from last night. And last week: Shitty Hollow has a lot more. Edited February 24, 2015 by jenrising Link to comment
DJG1122 February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Ichabod Crane RPG twiiter account: https://twitter.com/NoFirstIShotHim He is simply delightful. His tears are even more delicious reading it post finale. Oddly enough, the picture of the bent-out-of-shape ring shows a woman's ring.................... Link to comment
Limelight February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 That Ichabod Twitter guy, is that performance art or is that guy in need of a bed next to where Irving and Jenny stayed at the Sleepy Hollow mental health facility? My favorite line from the Variety interview with Tom Mison regarding mourning after Katrina and Henry's death: " I think we’ve seen enough Crane family drama. I think we’re all in agreement that it can’t be too maudlin, because we’ve got adventures to go on." I'm seriously in love with this guy. I love it when the people who are in my ships, ship it more than even I do! 10 Link to comment
DJG1122 February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 (edited) That Ichabod Twitter guy, is that performance art or is that guy in need of a bed next to where Irving and Jenny stayed at the Sleepy Hollow mental health facility? Door # 2, Room 49 Edited February 24, 2015 by DJG1122 Link to comment
DeLurker February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Thanks! And dang - there's a whole case of crazy out there! But there's also TheOrlandoJones which is always a good read! I wouldn't give u false hope/On this strange & mournful day/But the mother & child reunion/Is only a motion away @katia_winter @thejohnnoble And this because I can't insert the picture for reasons. 1 Link to comment
Morrigan2575 February 24, 2015 Share February 24, 2015 Nice, Orlando Jones is pimping out T-Mobile...haha Link to comment
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