Speculation Without Spoilers Theories

[Umbelina]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/discovered-our-parents-were-russian-spies-tim-alex-foley

This article which I found because of the speculation in the Immersion thread about Paige's culpability here has led me to some interesting speculation.

In real life, the FBI knew about the illegals years before they were arrested.  They watched them, bugged them, and only moved in when the Russian mole that had betrayed them prepared to take a runner.

So, just imagine if it isn't like we've often assumed, that the show will end when Phil and Liz are finally caught, or defect?

What IF the FBI finds out sooner?  What if they just monitor Phil and Liz to get more information, as happened in real life?  What if that's why Renee is hanging around Stan, to ensure that he'd be safe to be read into this ongoing Jennings operation?  He's a logical choice, since he's their neighbor and friends with them, but his recent blackmail attempt and obvious Nina obsession may be making the FBI really check him out before letting him know his neighbors are spies?

Maybe that's the real reason the CIA wanted to check out Oleg as well?  He and Stan were obviously close, and Stan didn't disclose it until later.  Perhaps that's why the KGB internal affairs is really looking into Oleg, he knows the identity of at least some of the Illegals in the USA?

It could be so good!

Stan knowing but having to pretend he doesn't know!  Pastor Tim threatened and turned to spy for the FBI to avoid prison time for him and his wife!  Tension mounting as our super spies Liz and Phil feel increasingly uneasy, but don't know exactly why?  Stan perhaps getting Mathew to get information about Paige?  Henry, already a friend of Stan, also questioned more expertly by Stan?

Most of all, time to enjoy the aftermath.  Don't just end on them getting caught, let us see what happens after that.

[Umbelina]

OK, I'll talk to myself a bit and maybe some of the speculators from the episode thread will join me!  (ha)

That article is so good, and so in depth, that I can't help but think the writers not only read it, but also had Paige and maybe even Henry in mind.  For example:

Quote

Ultimately, the court seems to be operating as much on emotional as on legal grounds, possibly with the Wall Street Journal story about Tim’s apparent recruitment at the back of its mind. But even if the brothers knew about their parents’ activities (and there is no hard evidence of this), I wondered what the court expected of them. What is a 16-year-old who finds out he is the child of Russian spies supposed to do? Call the FBI?

Quote

 

While they have no wish to live in Russia, both brothers visit Moscow every few months to see their parents. I ask them how hard it has been to keep that relationship going. Was there a confrontation? Tim and Alex choose their words carefully; they want to appear rational and pragmatic, rather than emotional, it seems. “Of course, there were some very difficult times,” Tim says. “But if I get angry with them, it’s not going to lead to any beneficial outcomes.” He admits it is sad that, even though he can now spend time with his grandparents, the language barrier means he will never know them properly. “In terms of family and keeping this whole thing together, it really doesn’t work out well when you choose this kind of path,” he says, his voice trailing off wistfully.

Alex tells me that he sometimes wonders why his parents decided to have children at all. “They live their lives like everyone else, making choices along the way. I am glad they had a cause they believed in so strongly, but their choices mean I feel no connection to the country they risked their lives for. I wish the world wouldn’t punish me for their choices and actions. It has been deeply unjust.”

 

Now, they could be lying about not knowing, because they are minors, as were the other children of the Russian Illegals finally arrested, many details haven't been released.  An unknown FBI "source" supposedly said they had one brother on tape agreeing to be a second generation spy for Russia.  He denies this.  So, if one kid did know and the other did not, it would be similar to Paige and Henry.  The last paragraph up there, for example, reminds me of Henry's likely response.

More interesting to me is this part:

The FBI KNEW for quite a while who the illegals were, taped them, followed them, but didn't arrest them until their source in Russia bounced and he thought they might find out they'd been identified.

Quote

The family home had been bugged for years. The FBI knew the couple's real identities, even if their own children did not.

So?

This could explain some things happening in the show right now.  For example, almost no one believes Renee is just a cute woman from the gym anymore, specifically because it honestly doesn't make show sense, but also?  That whole U of I mistake from someone who is supposedly extremely into sports, including college sports and was traveling with her bestie who went to that school.

So, what if the FBI is ALREADY aware of the Jennings?  What if they aren't telling Stan until they really vet him, since he's been pretty cozy with KGB agents already, both Nina and Oleg.  What if the FBI wants to read him in to this op, but not until they are sure, and that's Renee's job.  That would also explain why she keeps inviting Liz and Phil to join them on dates.  Stan, IF trustworthy, would be a good asset for the FBI in this op, since he lives across the street, and he's already friendly with them.

It might also explain the CIA and FBI cooperating on the Oleg thing.  Honestly, the CIA and FBI rarely shared any information, let alone joined up in operations.  BUT, if the CIA has a mole in Russia (as in the real life story) and gave the FBI a head's up?

Add to that that just MAYBE that's why Oleg's room was searched.  Perhaps the KGB already suspects a mole, and they are looking for that person.  Oleg, chummy with Stan and over interested in the executed traitor Nina would be a likely choice, would he not?  Seduced by American, and aware of the Illegals since he worked with Arkady.

We are also coming up on "The Year of the Spy" (1985) which really began in 1984 and had the worst betrayals of the US covert operatives in history, so the FBI or even CIA could suspect Stan for that as well, or looking for their own leaks.

Anyway, it's a thought, and frankly I'd love it if we get to see the FBI know something Liz and Phil don't...and really get to see all of the aftermath of the Jennings family exposed.

It wouldn't be exactly the same as real life though, since the FBI knew for 10 years and the illegals weren't very successful. 
 

Quote

 

Way back in 2001, nearly a decade before her arrest, the FBI had searched a safe-deposit box belonging to Tracey Foley. There they found photographs of her in her 20s, one of which bore the Cyrillic imprint of the Soviet company that had printed it. The family home had been bugged, possibly for many years. The FBI knew the couple’s real identities, even if their own children did not, but the Americans preferred to keep an eye on the Russian spy ring, rather than make a move.

Why the FBI finally acted is unclear. One suggestion is that Alexander Poteyev, the SVR officer believed to have betrayed the group, felt his cover was blown. He reportedly fled Russia in the days before the arrests; in 2011, a Russian court sentenced him to 25 years in prison for treason in absentia. Another possibility is that one of the group was getting close to sensitive information. Whatever the reason, in June 2010 the FBI decided to wrap up Operation Ghost Stories and bust the Russian spy ring.

 

But the show would have been super boring if Liz and Phil never accomplished anything, and didn't do all of their own break ins, so maybe we'll only get the FBI watching them for a year or 6 months or something.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Umbelina
t

[Sarah 103]

9 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Maybe that's the real reason the CIA wanted to check out Oleg as well?  He and Stan were obviously close, and Stan didn't disclose it until later.  Perhaps that's why the KGB internal affairs is really looking into Oleg, he knows the identity of at least some of the Illegals in the USA?

Stan knowing but having to pretend he doesn't know!  Pastor Tim threatened and turned to spy for the FBI to avoid prison time for him and his wife!  Tension mounting as our super spies Liz and Phil feel increasingly uneasy, but don't know exactly why?  Stan perhaps getting Mathew to get information about Paige?  Henry, already a friend of Stan, also questioned more expertly by Stan?

Most of all, time to enjoy the aftermath.  Don't just end on them getting caught, let us see what happens after that.

I love the second and third paragraphs. This would be fantastic. Oleg knows the illegals exist, but does he know who they are? Does he know names/aliases/locations? 

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

the show would have been super boring if Liz and Phil never accomplished anything, and didn't do all of their own break ins, so maybe we'll only get the FBI watching them for a year or 6 months or something.

That would be a great storyline for season 6. The FBI finds out, but doesn't move because they want to get as many assets/people in the network that they can. I could see this working.

Based on Paige learning more about self defense and getting quite good at it, I would love to see a call back to season 2 with the roles reversed. Paige and Henry are out doing something together (going to a movie, buying thier parents an anniversary present, or something like that.) It's late and it's dark. In the parking lot, they're attacked (I'm thinking teenagers, someone not well trained to make it more believable) and Paige defends them by fighting off thier would be attackers.

[AllyB]

3 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I love the second and third paragraphs. This would be fantastic. Oleg knows the illegals exist, but does he know who they are? Does he know names/aliases/locations? 

I highly doubt Oleg has a clue about who the illegals are. He was head of Line X, technology espionage and while P&E were often the ones who fulfilled his requests to find plans/information he was never involved in sending them. Nina was part of Directorate S but she never knew their American identities (maybe she would have under normal circumstance but once Arkady and the Centre knew she was involved with Stan they wouldn't have trusted her with that kind of information). She more than likely would have known about Leanne and Emmett following their murders but I'm not sure how widespread that information would have been in the Rezidentura at that point. We saw numerous people working in a frenzy after they died but realistically the Rezidentura would have been containing that information even among their own staff, especially as they still planned to recruit Jared.

We know Arkady knows their American identities because when Philip approached him to warn him away from Paige he understood immediately who Philip was when he said his name.

[sistermagpie]

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

That would be a great storyline for season 6. The FBI finds out, but doesn't move because they want to get as many assets/people in the network that they can. I could see this working.

 

I can't see how they can allow the FBI to do that on this show given how dangerous these two are. The only person they work with who's above them is Claudia and it seems like it wouldn't take long to follow them to her. No reason to sit back and watch them work knowing that people could die as they do it. If they want the network, Claudia is it. 

8 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

Based on Paige learning more about self defense and getting quite good at it, I would love to see a call back to season 2 with the roles reversed. Paige and Henry are out doing something together (going to a movie, buying thier parents an anniversary present, or something like that.) It's late and it's dark. In the parking lot, they're attacked (I'm thinking teenagers, someone not well trained to make it more believable) and Paige defends them by fighting off thier would be attackers.

I have to say, I think that would be really fake. It would be incredibly contrived for Paige to blunder into yet another attack situation just to have a superhero moment in front of Henry because she's been practicing self-defense with her mom. And the idea of her fighting off multiple people is totally unlikely. I'd frankly still put my money on Henry to offer a more decisive blow, even if he'd be surprised by Paige having any moves at all. The whole family has at one point stepped in to immobilize some creep who was perving on Paige. At this point she's just catching up to the rest of them.

4 hours ago, AllyB said:

I highly doubt Oleg has a clue about who the illegals are.

He definitely doesn't. Arkady refused to let him have any info on them at all. He only knew about William because the woman he was sleeping with last season talked about how they were getting the virus.

4 hours ago, AllyB said:

Nina was part of Directorate S but she never knew their American identities (maybe she would have under normal circumstance but once Arkady and the Centre knew she was involved with Stan they wouldn't have trusted her with that kind of information).

Iirc, Nina confessed right before she would have been read into that operation at some level (whether or not she'd have known their identities). So that was probably part of the reason she confessed. She knew she was going to be handed information on them. And like you said, once she confessed they didn't trust her with that info. She once hinted to Stan she was going to get it, though, to tempt him.

[Umbelina]

I don't think Oleg knew their identities either, but he certainly knew of them.  However, he was very close to Arkady, Arkady even stood up for him to a minister, Oleg's dad, and at least some risk.  They may be concerned that Arkady slipped to Oleg, or that Oleg, being a spy after all, found out.

So the KGB investigators may not know how much Oleg really knows and be investigating him just in case.  If they felt they had a leak he'd be a prime target to investigate anyway, having just returned from America.

Personally, I think someone spotted the CIA brush meeting, OR, even more likely, the people profiting from the food, be they mob or KGB or someone high in the government are the reason his room was searched.

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I can't see how they can allow the FBI to do that on this show given how dangerous these two are. The only person they work with who's above them is Claudia and it seems like it wouldn't take long to follow them to her. No reason to sit back and watch them work knowing that people could die as they do it. If they want the network, Claudia is it. 

--snip

 

Maybe that's why they really aren't being all that dangerous this season though?  They've only killed one guy.  Ha. 

I agree though that the FBI would not act on the show the way they did in real life with the Illegals, because our illegals do much more stuff than the real life illegals did.  I've said it all along, they would never do break ins, or hits, their real jobs are much more important and the KGB had teams for all that stuff, they wouldn't have risked such high value assets.  That's just to make the TV show more compelling, as most spy related shows and movies are handled, so you just have to let go a bit of reality.

Anyway, that's the reason that the (show) FBI certainly wouldn't watch them for years, but the real life FBI did. 

That said, if the FBI does find out before the end of the show, I still think that could be a surprising way to handle it all, and a good one.  Spy on the spies, turn the tables, and most of all, let us enjoy and savor the aftermath of it all.

That said, Philip and Elizabeth could still not be caught, they may just end up working for the SVR instead of the KGB and continue their life as embedded spies in America.  I doubt the show will go that way.

Also, the FBI would have no idea that Philip and Elizabeth's entire "network" consists of Claudia, so watching them to find more spies does make sense, and once they find Claudia, presumably they would find more spies/connections.  I doubt she's only there for Philip and Elizabeth.  They would also find out about Kimmy of course, which is a pretty decent CIA leak. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by Umbelina

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm just speculating.  I'm not sure if this should go here or in the "How I want The Show to End" thread.  During this last episode, it occurred to me that it might come down to the family not being kept together.  If Paige is able to really bond with E over empathy for those in need, she might choose to stay with mom and the CAUSE and Philip go his way with Henry for a more normal life.   Maybe, P & E just aren't going to make it long term after all.  I'm not sure why that just seemed to dawn on me.   I'm not sure how that might happen.  There would have to be a cover story....perhaps P & E separate....move far away?  Could E and Paige be useful away from DC?  

I would think that both P & E are hesitant to return to Russia.  It might be quite a shock.  Despite the hellish life they live now, I would think the life back home offers them much trepidation. 

[Erin9]

On 4/26/2017 at 3:56 PM, Umbelina said:

 

Stan knowing but having to pretend he doesn't know!  Pastor Tim threatened and turned to spy for the FBI to avoid prison time for him and his wife!  Tension mounting as our super spies Liz and Phil feel increasingly uneasy, but don't know exactly why?  Stan perhaps getting Mathew to get information about Paige?  Henry, already a friend of Stan, also questioned more expertly by Stan?

Most of all, time to enjoy the aftermath.  Don't just end on them getting caught, let us see what happens after that.

I'm not sure I buy that Stan could pretend that well. He's a good agent and he's done undercover work, but this is professional and very personal for him. I think E and P would catch on. They watch him closely as it is. Same with Pastor Tim. They're looking for signs of trouble. 

[Erin9]

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm just speculating.  I'm not sure if this should go here or in the "How I want The Show to End" thread.  During this last episode, it occurred to me that it might come down to the family not being kept together.  If Paige is able to really bond with E over empathy for those in need, she might choose to stay with mom and the CAUSE and Philip go his way with Henry for a more normal life.   Maybe, P & E just aren't going to make it long term after all.  I'm not sure why that just seemed to dawn on me.   I'm not sure how that might happen.  There would have to be a cover story....perhaps P & E separate....move far away?  Could E and Paige be useful away from DC?  

I would think that both P & E are hesitant to return to Russia.  It might be quite a shock.  Despite the hellish life they live now, I would think the life back home offers them much trepidation. 

I hope it's not like this. Lol I'd feel like I wasted my time watching if it ended like that. 

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I hope it's not like this. Lol I'd feel like I wasted my time watching if it ended like that. 

Yeah, but, I don't really expect it to be a happy ending.  Even if P & E are alive and still working in the USA, that's pretty sad, because we know what they have in store for the rest of their lives. (Stress, risks, murder and lying.)  And of course, there's prison, execution or retirement.  I would assume that The Center would not allow them to retire and stay in the USA!  lol  Ya think?

 I suppose that to wrap it all up with the neatest package would be for P & E  to retire and go back to Russia, taking Paige and Henry with them.  Once there, P meets up with his older son.  I suppose that would show them full circle, but, it's not likely, imo.   I mean, when they kept asking Gabriel why he was going home.....to me, that was a no brainer.  He's quite old enough to retire.  Who in the heck expects a spy to work up to his age, yet they acted like it was somehow a strange thing to do.  Oh well........

[Erin9]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, but, I don't really expect it to be a happy ending.  Even if P & E are alive and still working in the USA, that's pretty sad, because we know what they have in store for the rest of their lives. (Stress, risks, murder and lying.)  And of course, there's prison, execution or retirement.  I would assume that The Center would not allow them to retire and stay in the USA!  lol  Ya think?

 I suppose that to wrap it all up with the neatest package would be for P & E  to retire and go back to Russia, taking Paige and Henry with them.  Once there, P meets up with his older son.  I suppose that would show them full circle, but, it's not likely, imo.   I mean, when they kept asking Gabriel why he was going home.....to me, that was a no brainer.  He's quite old enough to retire.  Who in the heck expects a spy to work up to his age, yet they acted like it was somehow a strange thing to do.  Oh well........

I think the only true happy ending would be the KGB letting them retire in the US. Which would never happen. Lol That would be a pretty stress free life without the kids being uprooted. 

I don't think going home is that likely either. And for sure Henry and Paige wouldn't welcome it. 

I guess I like the idea of them disappearing into America where we're left wondering if the KGB and FBI will catch up to them. 

If we wind up clearly going for a super depressing ending, I probably won't watch though. I don't mind everyone being down now, but ending it that way is probably not something I'll care to see. 

I think they just felt blind-sided by his decision. I was shocked. Yeah, I knew he was sick of it, tired, but I was surprised initially. 

[sonik0909]

I have a theory about Renee. First, I'm taking the not-so-revolutionary stance that "Renee as a KGB agent or other impostor" is a red herring - but not a pointless one. My suspicion is, this was all a way to get us interested in her so we care when SHE is the one who finds out the truth about Philip and Elizabeth (or at least overhears much more than she should) - meaning that of course they have to kill her. Stan will have some inkling that she died because of something related to his counterintelligence work (shades of Amador), filling him with both guilt and a red-hot passion for catching Russians. Can the showdown with his friendly neighbors be far behind?

Meanwhile, this could be the last straw for Philip. He's having a tough enough time killing innocent strangers. How much worse will it be when it's someone he knows?

Now it becomes a matter of: which will happen first? Will a vengeful Stan crack the case, or will Philip simply crack? Or will Claudia/Elizabeth/"The Center" try to yank them out of there before the sh*t really hits the fan?

Just a theory; not claiming any psychic powers. But could happen, no?

[Umbelina]

1 hour ago, Erin9 said:

I'm not sure I buy that Stan could pretend that well. He's a good agent and he's done undercover work, but this is professional and very personal for him. I think E and P would catch on. They watch him closely as it is. Same with Pastor Tim. They're looking for signs of trouble. 

I'm sure he'd have a hell of a time, and we'd see every second of it! 

I don't see a happy ending at all.  I suppose the happiest realistic ending is they stay on in America after the fall of the Soviet Union, and then the SVR grabs them up and reactivates them years later.

I just don't know if this show would do a "ten years later" or "twenty years later" thing though to let us know about that.

I expect one of them to die, some days Philip, some days Elizabeth.  If Elizabeth it will probably be heroic, saving Philip or a kid.  If Philip it will probably be the KGB taking him out, leaving Elizabeth knowing, and carefully planning her next moves.  Will she continue on working for the KGB, or finally defect? 

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, even Keri and Matthew don't know how it will end, so, I guess we are all just speculating.  It sure is a mystery.  I happen to love spoilers.  I'm going over there to see what might coming out. 

I'm still curious about Renee and why the writers would make her a red herring. 

[kokapetl]

Letting Philip and Elizabeth retire in America could work for the USSR. Those two are too dangerous to constrict, the only workable arrangement is whatever the pair want. They've mentioned how the (Centre's) plan meant they would never be returning to the motherland. 

[kokapetl]

On 27/04/2017 at 9:47 AM, Umbelina said:

OK, I'll talk to myself a bit and maybe some of the speculators from the episode thread will join me!  (ha)

That article is so good, and so in depth, that I can't help but think the writers not only read it, but also had Paige and maybe even Henry in mind.  For example:

Now, they could be lying about not knowing, because they are minors, as were the other children of the Russian Illegals finally arrested, many details haven't been released.  An unknown FBI "source" supposedly said they had one brother on tape agreeing to be a second generation spy for Russia.  He denies this.  So, if one kid did know and the other did not, it would be similar to Paige and Henry.  The last paragraph up there, for example, reminds me of Henry's likely response.

More interesting to me is this part:

The FBI KNEW for quite a while who the illegals were, taped them, followed them, but didn't arrest them until their source in Russia bounced and he thought they might find out they'd been identified.

So?

This could explain some things happening in the show right now.  For example, almost no one believes Renee is just a cute woman from the gym anymore, specifically because it honestly doesn't make show sense, but also?  That whole U of I mistake from someone who is supposedly extremely into sports, including college sports and was traveling with her bestie who went to that school.

So, what if the FBI is ALREADY aware of the Jennings?  What if they aren't telling Stan until they really vet him, since he's been pretty cozy with KGB agents already, both Nina and Oleg.  What if the FBI wants to read him in to this op, but not until they are sure, and that's Renee's job.  That would also explain why she keeps inviting Liz and Phil to join them on dates.  Stan, IF trustworthy, would be a good asset for the FBI in this op, since he lives across the street, and he's already friendly with them.

It might also explain the CIA and FBI cooperating on the Oleg thing.  Honestly, the CIA and FBI rarely shared any information, let alone joined up in operations.  BUT, if the CIA has a mole in Russia (as in the real life story) and gave the FBI a head's up?

Add to that that just MAYBE that's why Oleg's room was searched.  Perhaps the KGB already suspects a mole, and they are looking for that person.  Oleg, chummy with Stan and over interested in the executed traitor Nina would be a likely choice, would he not?  Seduced by American, and aware of the Illegals since he worked with Arkady.

We are also coming up on "The Year of the Spy" (1985) which really began in 1984 and had the worst betrayals of the US covert operatives in history, so the FBI or even CIA could suspect Stan for that as well, or looking for their own leaks.

Anyway, it's a thought, and frankly I'd love it if we get to see the FBI know something Liz and Phil don't...and really get to see all of the aftermath of the Jennings family exposed.

It wouldn't be exactly the same as real life though, since the FBI knew for 10 years and the illegals weren't very successful. 
 

But the show would have been super boring if Liz and Phil never accomplished anything, and didn't do all of their own break ins, so maybe we'll only get the FBI watching them for a year or 6 months or something.

It'd be damn hard to justify not arresting the Jennings ASAP. They commit serious crimes on a weekly basis. 

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Kokapetl said:

Letting Philip and Elizabeth retire in America could work for the USSR. Those two are too dangerous to constrict, the only workable arrangement is whatever the pair want. They've mentioned how the (Centre's) plan meant they would never be returning to the motherland. 

Oh, I didn't realize that they would NEVER return to the homeland.  I thought that a season or two ago, P & E were considering if they needed to take off and leave.  I can't recall, but, there was some big scare.  Maybe, it was after Pastor Tim was informed by Paige or maybe it was with the Martha incident.  It seems I recall that they met with Gabriel at some place outside and he was trying to convince them it was an emergency and they needed to just pull out, but, they decided to stay.  Anyone recall this?

Edited April 28, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[sistermagpie]

19 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh, I didn't realize that they would NEVER return to the homeland.  I thought that a season or two ago, P & E were considering if they needed to take off and leave.  I can't recall, but, there was some big scare.  Maybe, it was after Pastor Tim was informed by Paige or maybe it was with the Martha incident.  It seems I recall that they met with Gabriel at some place outside and he was trying to convince them it was an emergency and they needed to just pull out, but, they decided to stay.  Anyone recall this?

Philip thought they should go back to the USSR when Pastor Tim found out. Then at the end of the season when William was caught Gabriel suggested they go to a safe house and consider going back to the USSR because they couldn't trust he hadn't talked and things had gotten too crazy.

[kokapetl]

23 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh, I didn't realize that they would NEVER return to the homeland.  I thought that a season or two ago, P & E were considering if they needed to take off and leave.  I can't recall, but, there was some big scare.  Maybe, it was after Pastor Tim was informed by Paige or maybe it was with the Martha incident.  It seems I recall that they met with Gabriel at some place outside and he was trying to convince them it was an emergency and they needed to just pull out, but, they decided to stay.  Anyone recall this?

Gabriel figured out that William was captured by the FBI, and William could have potentially been able to expose the Jennings true identities. But when he was caught, William intentionally infected himself with the super Lassa virus and died, so no proper interrogation could take place. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Kokapetl

[Moose135]

3 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Letting Philip and Elizabeth retire in America could work for the USSR. Those two are too dangerous to constrict, the only workable arrangement is whatever the pair want.

Well, the KGB could always arrange an "accident"...

[jrlr]

This may have beend discussed earlier, but I was kind of surprised when two different friends of mine who watch this said they think Paige is going to be killed off.  It had not occurred to me at all (maybe a failure of imagination on my part), but I'm curious about the reaction to the idea from anyone who posts here.

[SunnyBeBe]

22 hours ago, jrlr said:

This may have beend discussed earlier, but I was kind of surprised when two different friends of mine who watch this said they think Paige is going to be killed off.  It had not occurred to me at all (maybe a failure of imagination on my part), but I'm curious about the reaction to the idea from anyone who posts here.

 I can't imagine them killing her off UNLESS it would be in the final season, perhaps in the final moments of the SERIES finale, because, it would render P & E so shocked, damaged, heartbroken, distracted, and unable to function.  They can't afford to be unable to function.  At least, not both at the same time.  It would shut them down so much that, I can't imagine how the storylines would move forward.  I actually, can't imagine a death of any of the following, UNLESS, it's in the finale scenes of the SERIES, where they can show a funeral, goodbyes and then flash to how they end up.  Sort of a farewell ending.  I feel that way about P, E, Paige, Henry, and Stan.  The others are fair game. Of course, what do I know? lol  I would never have bought the current storyline about Paige and Pastor Tim either.  And, I thought Martha was a goner many times.  I suppose my gut feelings on this show aren't very accurate. lol 

[Ellaria]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 I can't imagine them killing her off UNLESS it would be in the final season, perhaps in the final moments of the SERIES finale, because, it would render P & E so shocked, damaged, heartbroken, distracted, and unable to function.  They can't afford to be unable to function.  At least, not both at the same time.  It would shut them down so much that, I can't imagine how the storylines would move forward.  I actually, can't imagine a death of any of the following, UNLESS, it's in the finale scenes of the SERIES, where they can show a funeral, goodbyes and then flash to how they end up.  Sort of a farewell ending.  I feel that way about P, E, Paige, Henry, and Stan.  The others are fair game. Of course, what do I know? lol  I would never have bought the current storyline about Paige and Pastor Tim either.  And, I thought Martha was a goner many times.  I suppose my gut feelings on this show aren't very accurate. lol 

I don't believe that Paige or Henry will be killed off. The fate of Pasha and Jared will serve as cautionary tales to P&E. I think that P&E may reconsider the implications of bringing Paige and Henry back to Russia, regardless of whether Pasha lives or dies. I'm not suggesting that they will abandon the idea entirely but instead come to realize that the adjustment may not be so simple.

Despite her "supportive" response to them, I don't think that Claudia has any intention of letting them go home. She told them just enough to keep them from getting belligerent. I would not be surprised if we see Claudia tell them that "after much consideration, you are still needed here." I believe that the ultimate fate of P&E lies here in the US.

(However, my gut feeling about this show - and most shows - are usually inaccurate as well.)

[Razzberry]

On 5/27/2017 at 8:43 AM, jrlr said:

 

This may have beend discussed earlier, but I was kind of surprised when two different friends of mine who watch this said they think Paige is going to be killed off.

 

Wishful thinking, perhaps.  The writers seem far too invested in this Paige storyline for that to happen, imo. 

My biggest problem with the show is lack of suspense and credibility.   It seems they can kill people regularly without any real fear of being caught.  When Stan became their neighbor I was hoping for more than an occasional beer and their kids dating.   A week ago a local couple was murdered in their dining room, is that even being investigated?  There's never any followup.  Since the FBI is apparently incompetent, it might be interesting to see local detectives closing in on them, because those "disguises" were laughable.

And if they want to go back, make it because they're walking on thin ice, not because of job burnout, for christsakes.

[SunnyBeBe]

31 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Wishful thinking, perhaps.  The writers seem far too invested in this Paige storyline for that to happen, imo. 

My biggest problem with the show is lack of suspense and credibility.   It seems they can kill people regularly without any real fear of being caught.  When Stan became their neighbor I was hoping for more than an occasional beer and their kids dating.   A week ago a local couple was murdered in their dining room, is that even being investigated?  There's never any followup.  Since the FBI is apparently incompetent, it might be interesting to see local detectives closing in on them, because those "disguises" were laughable.

And if they want to go back, make it because they're walking on thin ice, not because of job burnout, for christsakes.

That couple who were murdered in their dining room lived in Boston, right?  I suppose that P & E made it appear to be a home invasion/robbery, so, it's unlikely they would be able to trace them.  Except, they used a silencer on the gun, right?  That might set off some bells that this was more than a regular robbery, but with no prints, no DNA (perhaps to come years down the road), no witnesses, no prior contact with the victims and no obvious motive, I can see how when it seems to be totally random, it would be hard for law enforcement to connect the dots. 

My idea of what makes P & E the most vulnerable right now are their visits with Alexi's family.  All that is needed is a look into their  backgrounds and these two airline employees' stories fall apart.  The fact that they just seem to be so nonchalant about this confuses me.  

Does anyone know if this story of P & E is loosely based on any real life KGB spies who were undetected for years and then surfaced? 

OMG! This STORY is really bizarre.  Check it out.  It carries some interesting perspectives from a REAL LIFE KGB illegal.

Quote

Jack Barsky: The KGB spy who lived the American dream

Quote

He believes about "10 to 12" agents were trained up at the same time as him. Some, he says, could still be out there, living undercover in the United States, though he finds it hard to believe that anyone exposed to life in the US would retain an unwavering communist faith for long.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38846022

Edited May 28, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Umbelina]

I think Philip or Elizabeth will die by the end of this show.  Protecting each other or Paige.  Philip makes the most sense, having the KGB take him out to motivate Elizabeth and to keep her and the kids in the game.

That said, they might kill Liz, just for the audience.  I've lost faith in them after this season.  We shall see if they can pull it back together to the greatness of seasons 1-4 or not.

[Nash]

My presumption is that the Jennings will get blown and that can come from two broad directions:

1 character driven - at the most basic someone snaps and it all goes wrong. That could be so very soap opera if not handled right and could jump the shark if, say Henry goes all Hardy Boys and tells the local FBI agent. 

2 outside forces - a KGB officer defects or the FBI get a SIGINT break; in one sense if they are found out because of a traitor elsewhere that does fit history - it took time but even Norwood was outed. The question then is if the Jennings get out or not; closely followed by how it impacts everyone else as the recriminations start. 

One thought is that we are looking at it as a series 6 which ends with the discovery/escape whatever - what if it all steps up a gear early on and the dynamic entry team snap the cuffs on mid season? Or Jennings have flown and the big question is their reception back home (along with who makes it back home and is home home?).

[kokapetl]

From the costume designer’s twitter.

Dynasty type rich and Black characters?

And maybe Martha?

A hideous new look for Paige? Or Kimmie?

Edited October 2, 2017 by Kokapetl

[SusanSunflower]

I'm guessing that Tuan may turn into something more frightening that that bunny-boiler in Fatal Attraction ... I'd love to see Phillip and Elizabeth come home to find Tuan playing video games with Henry as Paige looks on ... if P&E's report thwarts Tuan's ambitions, his revenge might well be terrifying (see season #1).  

Regardless, I think leaving Tuan's actual Seattle family crisis an unresolved blur (was he lying? was his story even plausible?), indicates that even after Pasha and his mom leave (if they do), Tuan likely to still be around (even if he goes underground at the news of Elizabeth's damning report.  Elizabeth doesn't really see Tuan, even if she murmurs the "right things", he's just a cog in the wheel.  Advising him that going forward, he needed a partner, when on that operation Elizabeth and Phillip WERE his partners (and AWOL, despite Tuan's warnings) I think will be the fulcrum of the final season.  Along with Phillip "suddenly" deciding he wants Henry at home and the family "kept together" ... when Henry's been AWOL for months or hanging with Stan (more recently Chris and school friends) because much of the time no one's home at the Jenning's home ... except Paige on her non-Church activity nights.  Both Phillip and Elizabeth have been AWOL with Henry and too eager to hear "I'm fine" from Paige.  I've watched parents try to get all parental as "empty nest" approaches ... and seen their kids' irritation and even anger at this sudden intrusion into their private lives. 

I'm wondering if Pastor Tim's horrible wife will reemerge as a player ... seeing as what PT wrote in his diary might well reflect his conversations with his wife over pastoral matters. (Yeech, no I don't think members of the congregation would want to know that PT was sharing their marital and sexual conflicts with his wife, even if she were warmer and nicer). The diary still exists -- unsecured -- to be found and read ... what did P&E do with the photos? don't remember. 

If this turns into a generational war-of-the-worlds, I'd expect Kimmie to walk in on Phillip in her dad's home office, en flagrante.... cue sh*tstorm  (alternatively Tuan might show up at one of Kimmie's soirees as some new friend ... Wonderful to imagine P&E  weighing the plus side of re-partnering (and passing the tape interception to him, freeing Phillip).  

In any event, I think this is going to oh-so-subtly circle back to season 1 and the ungovernability of that both welcome and feared next generation.  I'm doubtful Elizabeth is likely have some redemption arc, so it may come down to P versus E in the clinch, with Claudia pulling Elizabeth's strings, and pushing her buttons ... I doubtful Claudia will survive her attempts to destroy P&E union, but that doesn't mean they will. 

 

ETA:  I've thought for a long time that Elizabeth's Achilles heel is her vanity -- not just about her looks, but also about being better-than-Phillip as an agent and that both Gabriel and Claudia have played on this weakness in giving her praise in that direction and agreeing with her (I think likely mistaken) belief in her own superiority.   We will never see (I hope) Elizabth sending Paige out on her first honey-pot assignment but I have already found her eagerness for Paige to follow in her footsteps in such "work" stomach turning. Elizabeth is mostly used as an assassin and as a seductress (even when being friendly to lonely housewives), women are not immune to the charms of such a beautiful well-put-together new friend (maybe they can learn how she does it!).  It was mentioned by his brother that Phillip was a recognized "really smart one"... and I think part of his smarts (as "emotional intelligence") has been to play the submissive role in the partnership, and that he has been getting a bit more assertive in their personal relationship as their "partnernship" has morphed towards being a more of a "marriage" ... the writing and character development on this show really is a treat. 

Edited October 21, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[UncleChuck]

I've just spent a few hours reading the posts from the last 2-3 years in this Speculation Forum.  Try it.  It is amazing and amusing to see how TPTB almost always took the plot in a completely different direction than our speculators imagined.  Speculation is fun, but often, the posts with the most logical reasoning and detailed explanations were the ones that were farthest from the actual storyline.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 10/31/2017 at 8:14 PM, UncleChuck said:

I've just spent a few hours reading the posts from the last 2-3 years in this Speculation Forum.  Try it.  It is amazing and amusing to see how TPTB almost always took the plot in a completely different direction than our speculators imagined.  Speculation is fun, but often, the posts with the most logical reasoning and detailed explanations were the ones that were farthest from the actual storyline.

Yeah, but, often, I like our ideas more than theirs. lol

Edited November 7, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Roseanna]

On ‎28‎.‎5‎.‎2017 at 10:55 PM, Umbelina said:

I think Philip or Elizabeth will die by the end of this show.  Protecting each other or Paige.  

Or somebody else.

Their secret wedding a la Rome et Juliet points out to death, physically or spiritually.

On ‎21‎.‎10‎.‎2017 at 11:16 PM, SusanSunflower said:

ETA:  I've thought for a long time that Elizabeth's Achilles heel is her vanity -- not just about her looks, but also about being better-than-Phillip as an agent and that both Gabriel and Claudia have played on this weakness in giving her praise in that direction and agreeing with her (I think likely mistaken) belief in her own superiority. 

I think that P &E's strength and weakness are the same: their love for each other.

[SusanSunflower]

I remember in the first season (iirc) thinking that Elizabeth sort of "got off" on being the trigger man, the decisive one ... (and hoped that her character wasn't going to get more cold blooded).  She got an satisfaction at putting a "full stop" at the end of the sentence.  Like Indiana Jones pulling out a gun and shooting the scimitar wielding Arab -- Basta!  Enough! 

She also reminds me of the older sibling who thinks she's "hot stuff" because she lords over everyone else and has little competition ... or an over confident house cat who has similarly over time cowed the family dog into submission. 

So much of their spying is actually "acting" or impersonation to gain access, and killing. 

[GingerMarie]

I see Paige taking on the role of Phillip in getting in with Kimmy and getting access to the tapes.  This will be too much down-time  for Phillip so he an worry about how he is going to get his family out before it is too late.  Henry is the one we all should watch.  He is Paige's age when she was told what her parents did for a living.  This show should not end happy ever after.   Henry stays with Stan, Paige dies and Phillip and Elizabeth are shipped off the the motherland to be killed later.  

[DoubleUTeeEff]

I just re-watched Season 5. Based on things Stan and Elizabeth have said, I think Stan is a goner and P&E will either die or get caught (or both since there are two of them). Renee is either a spy or she is a red herring to distract us from something or someone else. Perhaps Chris' parents? We haven't seen them though so I don't know about that. I will be sad if Stan dies. I think the most chilling end would be Paige or Henry working for the Russians!

[SunnyBeBe]

On 12/11/2017 at 11:30 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I just re-watched Season 5. Based on things Stan and Elizabeth have said, I think Stan is a goner and P&E will either die or get caught (or both since there are two of them). Renee is either a spy or she is a red herring to distract us from something or someone else. Perhaps Chris' parents? We haven't seen them though so I don't know about that. I will be sad if Stan dies. I think the most chilling end would be Paige or Henry working for the Russians!

That's some pretty amusing theories.  I can hardly wait.  Of course, once this show wraps up.....man..it will be sad.  It's really my last favorite drama.  Well, besides Better Call Saul.  But, still, it'll just be odd with it gone.  Bye bye to Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and this one. 

Edited December 13, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[skippylou]

In the episode where Martha is exposed a necklace was bagged during the FBI search of her apartment.  Phillip originally got it from Elizabeth to use as a peace offering to Martha.  Stan can be like a dog going back to gnaw on and old bone when it comes to evidence.  Maybe he traces it to a manufacturer, jewelers in the DC area who carried it, searched their customer lists and found Phillip Jennings' name.
He isn't taking this info back to the office immediately.  There are dozens of ways for the story to unfold at that point.

I also think that all of the dangling threads of season 5 are there only to give the writers wide latitude in wrapping the story up.  I recently re-watched the first 4 seasons on Amazon, not even tempted to re-watch season 5.  

[DoubleUTeeEff]

20 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That's some pretty amusing theories.  I can hardly wait.  Of course, once this show wraps up.....man..it will be sad.  It's really my last favorite drama.  Well, besides Better Call Saul.  But, still, it'll just be odd with it gone.  Bye bye to Mad Men, Breaking Bad, and this one. 

I think it's time for it to wrap up but I will miss it, too. The thing that Stan said that made me think he was a goner was something along the lines of "I'm just trying to stay alive." So now that I think about it more, I think someone will try to kill him but they may not necessarily succeed.

On re-watch, Season 5 was better than I remembered. I remember enjoying it at the time but I think I was influenced by the number of negative comments I've read about it. Of course, if you hated it the first time there's no reason to re-watch! I just hope Season 6 has a satisfying conclusion. I know it's the fashion to end TV series ambiguously but I hope The Americans doesn't make it too ambiguous. A little ambiguous for some characters is OK, though.

[SusanSunflower]

I think that Stan was talking less about "mortality" than about his career and his prospects for being drummed out of the FBI upon being embroiled in some "next" screwup... The dust will never settle over Gaad's death and somehow some vague suspicion has fallen on Stan in light of other dead agents in his proximity.  We also have very-good-reason to suspect that it was Stan's loose lips that mobilized the squad that screwed up that initial meeting with Gaad (which of course was not supposed to be an assassination) 

Oh, and I agree that Season 5 was much better than all the negativity would have suggested even the number of characters I don't care about have multiplied.  I did care about Tuan and Pasha and enjoyed watching Elizabeth trying to negotiate her relationship with Pasha's mom after the Young Hee Seong disaster. 

Edited December 14, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[kokapetl]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Renee was kept around just to justify Stan staying in that huge house. Then again, it never really make sense for him to keep it after he divorced Sandra. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, SusanSunflower said:

rewup... The dust will never settle over Gaad's death and somehow some vague suspicion has fallen on Stan in light of other dead agents in his proximity. 

I think the suspicion is pretty clear to those around him. He threatened the FBI with a murder he himself committed after already setting up rogue operations that made others look bad. Not to mention people seem to have suspected the affair with Nina that almost led him to sell state secrets. (He did steal them.) I don't know if he's been connected to Gaad's death but maybe it won't look great that he went to his wife and asked her for her blessing in protecting Oleg. Lol! One of Stan's finest moments.

Quote

I wouldn’t be surprised if Renee was kept around just to justify Stan staying in that huge house. Then again, it never really make sense for him to keep it after he divorced Sandra. 

Maybe that's also why they had Sandra leave him for another man. Otherwise it would have made much more sense for Stan to move out and not her with her kid. This way it's just inertia and the Jennings that kept him there.

Edited December 14, 2017 by sistermagpie

[SusanSunflower]

There's definitely something "off" about Stan and I think Aderholt senses it.  What anyone has admitted aloud is another matter.  Stan accepted the divorce too "well"  ... he spends evenings hanging out with Henry.  He might have sold the house (community property) and invested in a low maintenance 2 bedroom condo / batchelor pad. (It's not as if that house had longstanding "family memories").  

I remember Stan from the first seasons as having a hard time "coming in from the cold" and reconnecting one-on-one as equals (with everyone pretty much) after all that undercover work.  His refusal to fight for his marriage seemed consistent with some sort of hollowness ennui / depression (precisely what Susan was fleeing) ... life as going through the motions.  

I'm not sure what happened with Stan's character development along those lines for the last 2-3 seasons, but certainly his grief over Nina has appeared "manageable" ...  and as we saw (or I did) Nina appeared to find genuine love and comfort quickly enough in Oleg's arms (making her relationship with Stan a bit of a harsh contrast). 

Doesn't sound like they're going to explore/develop Stan and his "occupational hazard" emotional unavailability .... but anything's possible 

eta:  Part of what made Stan somewhat sympathetic in his relationship with Nina (although it was flagrant abuse of power) was that it seemed like both self-destructive risk-taking and perhaps a symptom of his estrangment from regular people/regular life ... like men prefer sex with prostitutes because they have the control.  In the first season anyway there was vague hope that Stan would realize what he was about to lose ... but he never really did.  I'd love to hear Matthew's thoughts on his dad.  I remember noticing that while many male teens might bristle at the return of "the father", Matthew seemed to rather shrug it off... whatever made his mom happy, y'know? 

Edited December 15, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[methodwriter85]

On 10/2/2017 at 3:16 PM, Kokapetl said:

From the costume designer’s twitter.

Dynasty type rich and Black characters?

And maybe Martha?

A hideous new look for Paige? Or Kimmie?

I can't for the life of me picture either Kimmie or Paige ever dressing like this. I can see Kimmie getting into the metal babe look. Paige, I think, would be served well by a look like this:

I can see her wearing nice big blazers with either knee-length skirts or pegged jeans. And if they don't want to give her an 80's perm, this seems like a good look for her.

Edited December 18, 2017 by methodwriter85

[crgirl412]

On 12/14/2017 at 4:02 PM, SusanSunflower said:

There's definitely something "off" about Stan and I think Aderholt senses it.  What anyone has admitted aloud is another matter.  Stan accepted the divorce too "well"  ... he spends evenings hanging out with Henry.  He might have sold the house (community property) and invested in a low maintenance 2 bedroom condo / batchelor pad. (It's not as if that house had longstanding "family memories").  

I remember Stan from the first seasons as having a hard time "coming in from the cold" and reconnecting one-on-one as equals (with everyone pretty much) after all that undercover work.  His refusal to fight for his marriage seemed consistent with some sort of hollowness ennui / depression (precisely what Susan was fleeing) ... life as going through the motions.  

I'm not sure what happened with Stan's character development along those lines for the last 2-3 seasons, but certainly his grief over Nina has appeared "manageable" ...  and as we saw (or I did) Nina appeared to find genuine love and comfort quickly enough in Oleg's arms (making her relationship with Stan a bit of a harsh contrast). 

Doesn't sound like they're going to explore/develop Stan and his "occupational hazard" emotional unavailability .... but anything's possible 

eta:  Part of what made Stan somewhat sympathetic in his relationship with Nina (although it was flagrant abuse of power) was that it seemed like both self-destructive risk-taking and perhaps a symptom of his estrangment from regular people/regular life ... like men prefer sex with prostitutes because they have the control.  In the first season anyway there was vague hope that Stan would realize what he was about to lose ... but he never really did.  I'd love to hear Matthew's thoughts on his dad.  I remember noticing that while many male teens might bristle at the return of "the father", Matthew seemed to rather shrug it off... whatever made his mom happy, y'know? 

"Off" in what way?  That he accepted his divorce too easily?  Didn't show enough remorse for killing Vlad?  Got too close to Nina?  Hangs out with a minor- if he even knew that?  What do you think Aderholt is thinking about Stan?

[SusanSunflower]

I'd suspect that Adderholt noticed early on that "golden boy" Stan has feet of clay and that vaguely a lot of bad stuff seems to have begun when he was bumped from domestic "undercover" to counterintelligence and that Stan noticeably feigns unconcern which seems to be at odds with a certain guardedness.  Intimacy between partners having definite borders.  I think the unthinkable/unsayable has crept into Adderholt's thoughts, been brushed aside, but questions and wariness remain.  If Stan were to stumble and fall on his face Adderholt might feel an odd relief if he "went away."  If you've ever worked with a person who simply lies and/or with a substance problem, you might have experienced months of cognitive dissonance about small things that didn't add up tonally or emotionally, before realizing, "yup, my instincts were correct".  In a collective setting like a work-place, after the fact discussion of "how did we miss this?" are revelatory. 

[crgirl412]

7 hours ago, SusanSunflower said:

I'd suspect that Adderholt noticed early on that "golden boy" Stan has feet of clay and that vaguely a lot of bad stuff seems to have begun when he was bumped from domestic "undercover" to counterintelligence and that Stan noticeably feigns unconcern which seems to be at odds with a certain guardedness.  Intimacy between partners having definite borders.  I think the unthinkable/unsayable has crept into Adderholt's thoughts, been brushed aside, but questions and wariness remain.  If Stan were to stumble and fall on his face Adderholt might feel an odd relief if he "went away."  If you've ever worked with a person who simply lies and/or with a substance problem, you might have experienced months of cognitive dissonance about small things that didn't add up tonally or emotionally, before realizing, "yup, my instincts were correct".  In a collective setting like a work-place, after the fact discussion of "how did we miss this?" are revelatory. 

Interesting point of view.  I hope that we would get to see some kind of wrap up with every relationship so we will find out "the truth." 

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, scrb said:

Again, it seems bizarre if as reported, Paige buys into being a spy, given this context.  The intel they send back may not do the Soviets any good.  Reformers are making the country let go of a lot of things, eventually all the satellite countries, leading to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

I wonder if Elizabeth might be doing stuff to work against whatever Gorbachev is trying to do in terms of foreign relations if she represents the Old Guard who doesn't want reform. (I'd imagine Claudia and Elizabeth would be on the same page there, right) After all, what would Elizabeth do without a Cold War to fight? Paige, yeah. That's a puzzler. Does she even understand that she's just working to advance the aims of this one particular country? Seems like she must buy into Elizabeth's claims that they're helping "the oppressed" and not really question how it helps the oppressed to, for instance, infect Afghani soldiers who feel they're fighting invaders with deadly diseases.

[qtpye]

On 12/17/2017 at 9:27 PM, methodwriter85 said:

I can't for the life of me picture either Kimmie or Paige ever dressing like this. I can see Kimmie getting into the metal babe look. Paige, I think, would be served well by a look like this:

I can see her wearing nice big blazers with either knee-length skirts or pegged jeans. And if they don't want to give her an 80's perm, this seems like a good look for her.

Good idea for Paige.  I could also see her dressing like a young Alyssa Milano (who was pretty popular in the eighties), since both are petite and tiny.

 

5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I wonder if Elizabeth might be doing stuff to work against whatever Gorbachev is trying to do in terms of foreign relations if she represents the Old Guard who doesn't want reform. (I'd imagine Claudia and Elizabeth would be on the same page there, right) After all, what would Elizabeth do without a Cold War to fight? Paige, yeah. That's a puzzler. Does she even understand that she's just working to advance the aims of this one particular country? Seems like she must buy into Elizabeth's claims that they're helping "the oppressed" and not really question how it helps the oppressed to, for instance, infect Afghani soldiers who feel they're fighting invaders with deadly diseases.

My pure speculation is that Elizabeth blindly recruits Paige, against Phillips wishes, and Paige either gets killed or in horrible trouble.  This will be the last straw and Phillip finally breaks away from his undying loyalty and love to all things Elizabeth.  He begins to see her as a ruthless fundamentalist who is too rigid in her thinking to be a part of a new post cold war world.  He will start to work against her.  Remember, Elizabeth is a good spy because she is tough and she is undyingly loyal.  Phillip is a good spy, because he is smart...really smart.  This can be hard to remember because he conceals it in such a regular nice guy image. If the end is Spy vs Spy, it will be interesting to see who winds, because both of them know each other strengths and weaknesses well.

[Chaos Theory]

Pure speculation on my part is this going to be about if love can really conquer everything even when P&E’s ideological differences finally come to a head.  When Elizabeth blindly recruites Paige Philip must decide beween love of his wife and his children.  Especially when he thinks he may have a way out as Russians begin to defect to the US in record numbers.   But will it work for him and his family?