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maraleia

By maraleia
in Law & Order: SVU

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Culture Check: How do we recognize and address victim blaming as a community? If you are unsure what victim-blaming is, please read more about it in this article. 

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anna0852

anna0852

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really hope SVU pays tribute to Munch in an episode before this season ends - he was such an awesome character and a major part of the show for so many years that they need to pay tribute to him and have the characters who knew him reminisce about him. 

I agree. We need a nice funeral/memorial for him. And as many past cast members as possible to show up. Like when John Spencer died on The West Wing. 
 

It wasn’t just the loss of a character, it was actual friends and colleagues mourning.

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wknt3
wknt3

Unfortunately sometimes the news is depressing.... RIP Actor and Comedian Richard Belzer, Munch of “SVU” and “Homicide,” Famous for Dry Sense of Humor

Xeliou66
Xeliou66

Damn, RIP Richard Belzer/Munch. He was an absolute legend. Munch was such a great character on both SVU and Homicide, one of tv’s most memorable detectives.  I really hope SVU pays tribute to him be

WendyCR72
WendyCR72

John Munch and Richard Belzer gave this show a much-needed sense of levity amidst the sorrow and despair. And it was invaluable, as we now see how dreary the show has been without it. John Munch

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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

4 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I really hope SVU pays tribute to Munch in an episode before this season ends - he was such an awesome character and a major part of the show for so many years that they need to pay tribute to him and have the characters who knew him reminisce about him. However I don’t trust the current SVU writers to do this at all, so I think they might just never mention Munch again, which would not be good given that he was such a huge part of the show for so long. 

They never really did anything special for Jerry - other than mention Lennie's passing a couple (?) of times, so yeah, I am not holding out hope they do Richard any better.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

7 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I agree. We need a nice funeral/memorial for him. And as many past cast members as possible to show up. Like when John Spencer died on The West Wing. 
 

It wasn’t just the loss of a character, it was actual friends and colleagues mourning.

Yes I agree - they need to have a scene of Benson, Fin, Stabler and Cragen getting together to remember and pay tribute to Munch, and if they can add in some past characters that would be good as well. Munch is a legend and deserves an onscreen tribute.

Just now, TakomaSnark said:

They never really did anything special for Jerry - other than mention Lennie's passing a couple (?) of times, so yeah, I am not holding out hope they do Richard any better.

Trial By Jury - the show Lennie was on when he died, did have a scene of the characters from that show returning from Lennie’s funeral, discussing how shocked they were he was gone and that they didn’t know his illness was so severe. But the idiot dumbfucks in charge of the show cut the scene, for god knows why. Lennie’s death was mentioned once by each of his partners in the years following his death - Logan on CI, and Green and Curtis on the Mothership. 

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anna0852

anna0852

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I agree - they need to have a scene of Benson, Fin, Stabler and Cragen getting together to remember and pay tribute to Munch, and if they can add in some past characters that would be good as well. Munch is a legend and deserves an onscreen tribute.

At the very least: Cabot, Huang, Rollins, Amaro, Novak and Warner.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

11 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

At the very least: Cabot, Huang, Rollins, Amaro, Novak and Warner.

It wouldn’t be possible to get all of them back, as nice as that would be (we know for sure Novak will never return, given that the actress has bashed the show and MH) - it would be nice to see the others since they all knew and liked Munch, but Benson/Stabler/Fin/Cragen worked with Munch the longest. 

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Pearson80

Pearson80

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

It wouldn’t be possible to get all of them back, as nice as that would be (we know for sure Novak will never return, given that the actress has bashed the show and MH) - it would be nice to see the others since they all knew and liked Munch, but Benson/Stabler/Fin/Cragen worked with Munch the longest. 

What is the tea?  What did she say about the show and MH?

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Irlandesa

Irlandesa

I don't know if we need to have a memorial for Munch.  I kind of like the update they gave him in the latest episode.  It feels like a perfect ending and good closure for the character.

1 hour ago, Pearson80 said:

What is the tea?  What did she say about the show and MH?

She said she agreed with John Oliver's piece about the show being propaganda but the more explosive comments came out in a lawsuit where her former manager claimed she allegedly called MH a total bitch and the only pleasant person on set was Ice-T.  She denied making the statements but if you read the details in the article I linked, it sounds like she has an explosive personality.  So I can believe she made them even if she didn't mean them. 

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't know if we need to have a memorial for Munch.  I kind of like the update they gave him in the latest episode.  It feels like a perfect ending and good closure for the character.

Yeah... If they have a tribute, they would have to let Munch die as well. I kind of prefer the idea that Munch is not dead in the SVU universe.

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

She said she agreed with John Oliver's piece about the show being propaganda but the more explosive comments came out in a lawsuit where her former manager claimed she allegedly called MH a total bitch and the only pleasant person on set was Ice-T.  She denied making the statements but if you read the details in the article I linked, it sounds like she has an explosive personality.  So I can believe she made them even if she didn't mean them. 

Interesting. A few years ago, I read that Diane Neal has had a falling out with the NCIS shows. I remember that whatever I read sounded like Neal was the "victim" (for the lack of a better word) but if it happens twice on two different networks, I'm beginning to wonder if it's really the productions that are the problem.

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dttruman

dttruman

8 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

t wouldn’t be possible to get all of them back, as nice as that would be (we know for sure Novak will never return, given that the actress has bashed the show and MH) - it would be nice to see the others since they all knew and liked Munch, but Benson/Stabler/Fin/Cragen worked with Munch the longest. 

They won't do it, because it is not cost effective. But I think they will say something in the least amount of words as possible, so as not to infringe on Benson's and Noah time.

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dttruman

dttruman

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Interesting. A few years ago, I read that Diane Neal has had a falling out with the NCIS shows. I remember that whatever I read sounded like Neal was the "victim" (for the lack of a better word) but if it happens twice on two different networks, I'm beginning to wonder if it's really the productions that are the problem.

I don't want to side track this too much, but I think Jennifer Esposito had a problem with NCIS also before she left.

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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

5 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Interesting. A few years ago, I read that Diane Neal has had a falling out with the NCIS shows. I remember that whatever I read sounded like Neal was the "victim" (for the lack of a better word) but if it happens twice on two different networks, I'm beginning to wonder if it's really the productions that are the problem.

In the words of Raylan Givens:

If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you're the asshole.

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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

4 hours ago, dttruman said:

I don't want to side track this too much, but I think Jennifer Esposito had a problem with NCIS also before she left.

Jennifer Esposito, though, is another performer who has had issues on every show she's been cast on - don't get me wrong, I like her as an actress but something always seems to be a problem on her sets.

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wknt3

wknt3

15 hours ago, TakomaSnark said:

They never really did anything special for Jerry - other than mention Lennie's passing a couple (?) of times, so yeah, I am not holding out hope they do Richard any better.

 

15 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yes I agree - they need to have a scene of Benson, Fin, Stabler and Cragen getting together to remember and pay tribute to Munch, and if they can add in some past characters that would be good as well. Munch is a legend and deserves an onscreen tribute.

Trial By Jury - the show Lennie was on when he died, did have a scene of the characters from that show returning from Lennie’s funeral, discussing how shocked they were he was gone and that they didn’t know his illness was so severe. But the idiot dumbfucks in charge of the show cut the scene, for god knows why. Lennie’s death was mentioned once by each of his partners in the years following his death - Logan on CI, and Green and Curtis on the Mothership. 


I think there is a strong possibility that the TBJ team felt that it might come off as trying to capitalize on the outpouring of love for Jerry Orbach as a last ditch attempt to save their sinking ship. Also both TBJ and the mothership never really got into the personal lives of the ensemble unlike SVU so that might have played a role as well in feeling that it would be out of place. I am willing to cut them some slack on this. If any actor/character did not get proper acknowledgement/tribute it is Steven Hill and Adam Schifff.

And as long as we're comparing the two actors/characters...
 

 

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

58 minutes ago, wknt3 said:

 


I think there is a strong possibility that the TBJ team felt that it might come off as trying to capitalize on the outpouring of love for Jerry Orbach as a last ditch attempt to save their sinking ship. Also both TBJ and the mothership never really got into the personal lives of the ensemble unlike SVU so that might have played a role as well in feeling that it would be out of place. I am willing to cut them some slack on this. If any actor/character did not get proper acknowledgement/tribute it is Steven Hill and Adam Schifff.

And as long as we're comparing the two actors/characters...
 

 

I’m afraid I have to respectfully disagree with you on this - Lennie was a regular on TBJ when he died, and the scene was just a brief scene of the characters returning from his funeral discussing him, it wouldn’t have felt out of place at all. It was epically stupid of TBJ to cut that scene and ignore Lennie’s death like nothing happened. 
As for Adam Schiff, I don’t really see how the could give him a tribute - he died during the period the Mothership was off the air and of the characters that are still around only Jack McCoy was close to him. Adam was a great character but it’s been so long since he was on the show that it would feel out of place to throw in a tribute to him, especially since the Mothership was off the air when he died. I liked how the Mothership referenced Adam doing humanitarian work overseas in his retirement. 

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wknt3

wknt3

(edited)
On 2/20/2023 at 2:13 PM, Xeliou66 said:

I’m afraid I have to respectfully disagree with you on this - Lennie was a regular on TBJ when he died, and the scene was just a brief scene of the characters returning from his funeral discussing him, it wouldn’t have felt out of place at all. It was epically stupid of TBJ to cut that scene and ignore Lennie’s death like nothing happened. 
As for Adam Schiff, I don’t really see how the could give him a tribute - he died during the period the Mothership was off the air and of the characters that are still around only Jack McCoy was close to him. Adam was a great character but it’s been so long since he was on the show that it would feel out of place to throw in a tribute to him, especially since the Mothership was off the air when he died. I liked how the Mothership referenced Adam doing humanitarian work overseas in his retirement. 

I don't think they could given Schiff a full tribute, but they could have had a mention at some point on SVU or had some sort of end of show mention at the end of one of the reboot episodes (instead of the "shocking" twist). Given all that he did to build the franchise I don't think something along the lines of what they did for Briscoe on CI is too much to expect.

And I'm not saying that TBJ made the right choice, just that it wasn't necessarily a matter of neglect and that they may have made the decision they made out of respect even if it's not the decision we would have made.

Edited by wknt3
fix typo
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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

On 2/20/2023 at 10:14 PM, howiveaddict said:

I had totally forgotten that Richard Belzer had first played John Munch on Homicide Life On The Street.  I loved that show and his character on it and SVU.   I first saw Richard in a movie called Night Shift starring Henry Winkler and Michael Keaton.  That's how old I am.

My first exposure to Richard Belzer, of all things, was his appearance in the 1986 music video for Pat Benatar's "Le Bel Age" from 1986. So I was 13 or 14 then. Sigh.

https://imvdb.com/video/pat-benatar/le-bel-age

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dttruman

dttruman

4 hours ago, howiveaddict said:
11 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

My first exposure to Richard Belzer, of all things was his appearance in the 1986 music video for Pat Benatar's "Le Bel Age" from 1986. So I was 13 or 14 then. Sigh.

https://imvdb.com/video/pat-benatar/le-bel-age

Hubby just told me he was cousins with Henry Winkler.  

I remember him being on those late nite concert shows. He was a cynical type comedian. Which reminds me of an episode on SVU, where he and Fin get reports from the FBI on themselves. Munch was very very disappointed the FBI considered him harmless and not a dangerous radical or threat. I cracked up.

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

41 minutes ago, dttruman said:

I remember him being on those late nite concert shows. He was a cynical type comedian. Which reminds me of an episode on SVU, where he and Fin get reports from the FBI on themselves. Munch was very very disappointed the FBI considered him harmless and not a dangerous radical or threat. I cracked up.

That was actually a Mothership/Homicide crossover - Munch was partnered with Lennie, and they were in DC investigating the murder of a government official and they were at FBI headquarters and Munch was ranting about how they viewed him as a security threat and had a file on him and demanded to see his file and it turned out it was just one page, it was very funny. 

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wknt3

wknt3

(edited)
5 hours ago, dttruman said:

I remember him being on those late nite concert shows. He was a cynical type comedian. Which reminds me of an episode on SVU, where he and Fin get reports from the FBI on themselves. Munch was very very disappointed the FBI considered him harmless and not a dangerous radical or threat. I cracked up.

 

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That was actually a Mothership/Homicide crossover - Munch was partnered with Lennie, and they were in DC investigating the murder of a government official and they were at FBI headquarters and Munch was ranting about how they viewed him as a security threat and had a file on him and demanded to see his file and it turned out it was just one page, it was very funny. 

 

Yep. One of the very rare moments of comedy (as opposed to snark/sarcasm) outside of the cold opens in the Mothership (SVU and CI wemt there a little more often)
 

Quote

We located your file, Mr. Munch. If you'll just sign here.

Uh, we have a mid-sized car. I'm concerned it won't fit in the trunk.

You shouldn't have a problem.
 

 

 

Quote

 

My file, where's the rest of it?

It's page one of one.

Well, this can't be everything, Lennie. I mean, I was a dangerous radical, left-wing journalist...

"Subject is an occasional reporter and music critic for the alternative weekly, The Paper. Field interviews reveal that, while vocal, subject is considered a dilettante and a non-entity in local radical politics. In our evaluation, subject poses no threat."

Well, better luck come the next revolution, John.

 


 

Edited by wknt3
ducking autocorrect
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dttruman

dttruman

17 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

That was actually a Mothership/Homicide crossover - Munch was partnered with Lennie, and they were in DC investigating the murder of a government official and they were at FBI headquarters and Munch was ranting about how they viewed him as a security threat and had a file on him and demanded to see his file and it turned out it was just one page, it was very funny. 

My bad, I thought it was Munch and Fin. I didn't not try to spread misinformation.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

On 2/20/2023 at 7:28 AM, dttruman said:

I don't want to side track this too much, but I think Jennifer Esposito had a problem with NCIS also before she left.

I didn't know that about Esposito but Diane Neal was on both NCIS and NCIS New Orleans and as far as I know, she had problems on both sets.

I don't think it must mean that Diane Neal is a diva or anything. It's entirely possible that she's simply the kind of person who has certain principles and rather quits than put up with things that others might be willing to put up with for the sake of their career. 🤷‍♀️

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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

Mariska was on Today today talking about the upcoming episode that she directed.  Supposedly it’s very different and a departure from her normal approach.  She was very tight lipped about it.  Hmmmm……No link available yet.  She was very complementary about f Savannah Guthrie…..I don’t know why she said that. If anyone knows please post on her thread.  

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TakomaSnark

TakomaSnark

From Deadline:

‘Law & Order: SVU’ Marathon Honoring Richard Belzer To Air On USA Network

Quote

USA Network is running a Law & Order: SVU marathon in honor of Richard Belzer, who died this week at 78.

Titled “Munch-a-thon,” the marathon will feature 10 of Belzer’s best episodes. The actor and comedian played played against type as John Munch, a tough New York cop on the series after originating the character on Homicide: Life on the Street.

The episodes will begin at 4 p.m. ET/PT on Sunday, February 26, and run until 1 a.m. In memoriam cards will be attached to each of them.

The episodes included in the marathon are “Remorse,” “Legacy,” “Manhunt,” “Parts,” “Uncle,” “Unorthodox,” “True Believers,” “Wonderland Story,” “Spring Awakening,” and “Fashionable Crimes.”

 

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

On 2/23/2023 at 10:07 PM, TakomaSnark said:

From Deadline:

‘Law & Order: SVU’ Marathon Honoring Richard Belzer To Air On USA Network

 

I’m looking forward to watching this Munch marathon - those are some classic SVU episodes - I would replace True Believers with Painless, Painless is the one noteworthy Munch episode they excluded for some reason, but the rest are great choices. Legacy, Manhunt and Remorse are 3 of my all time favorite SVU episodes. 

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

42 minutes ago, TakomaSnark said:

RIP Lance Reddick, who played M.E. Taylor in "The Third Guy," "Slaves," "Wrong Is Right," "Runaway," "Parasites" and "Inheritance."

He also appeared on the Mothership in "City Hall" & "Soldier Of Fortune, and on Criminal Intent in "Probability."

 

He was a prolific actor who appeared in many shows - RIP. 

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

4 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

At least it wasn't another multi-season renewal.

Actually I’m hearing it was a 2 season renewal! Crazy that SVU keeps on getting multi season renewals despite the quality being in the crapper for the most part. I know some people like to bash the Mothership revival, and it definitely has some issues, but it’s a lot better than the St Olivia Hour aka SVU. I’m glad the Mothership was renewed as I enjoy most of its episodes and I think it will improve more, while I don’t see SVU improving because of Mariska’s ego and control plus the fact that the writers seem kind of clueless as to what to do. This SVU season has been very mediocre and the writers just don’t seem to know what they want. 
It’s interesting that Organized Crime only got a 13 episode renewal for next season, I think they are running out of stories because there’s only so many types of those stories you can tell before it gets old, whereas the Mothership and SVU have a broader pool of material to work with.    
I’m hoping SVU improves and either they get better writers or the current writers find their footing, and the show isn’t hopelessly bad at the moment, but I don’t expect very good things from it anymore.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

3 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Actually I’m hearing it was a 2 season renewal! Crazy that SVU keeps on getting multi season renewals despite the quality being in the crapper for the most part. I know some people like to bash the Mothership revival, and it definitely has some issues, but it’s a lot better than the St Olivia Hour aka SVU. I’m glad the Mothership was renewed as I enjoy most of its episodes and I think it will improve more, while I don’t see SVU improving because of Mariska’s ego and control plus the fact that the writers seem kind of clueless as to what to do. This SVU season has been very mediocre and the writers just don’t seem to know what they want. 
It’s interesting that Organized Crime only got a 13 episode renewal for next season, I think they are running out of stories because there’s only so many types of those stories you can tell before it gets old, whereas the Mothership and SVU have a broader pool of material to work with.    
I’m hoping SVU improves and either they get better writers or the current writers find their footing, and the show isn’t hopelessly bad at the moment, but I don’t expect very good things from it anymore.

TV Line has it as one season each for this one and the Mothership. So, since they have been reliable, I'll go with that until proven otherwise!

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wknt3

wknt3

7 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Actually I’m hearing it was a 2 season renewal! Crazy that SVU keeps on getting multi season renewals despite the quality being in the crapper for the most part. I know some people like to bash the Mothership revival, and it definitely has some issues, but it’s a lot better than the St Olivia Hour aka SVU. I’m glad the Mothership was renewed as I enjoy most of its episodes and I think it will improve more, while I don’t see SVU improving because of Mariska’s ego and control plus the fact that the writers seem kind of clueless as to what to do. This SVU season has been very mediocre and the writers just don’t seem to know what they want. 
It’s interesting that Organized Crime only got a 13 episode renewal for next season, I think they are running out of stories because there’s only so many types of those stories you can tell before it gets old, whereas the Mothership and SVU have a broader pool of material to work with.    
I’m hoping SVU improves and either they get better writers or the current writers find their footing, and the show isn’t hopelessly bad at the moment, but I don’t expect very good things from it anymore.

 

2 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

TV Line has it as one season each for this one and the Mothership. So, since they have been reliable, I'll go with that until proven otherwise!


I'm not seeing anything in any of the trades about multiple seasons. I suspect that @Xeliou66 has this confused with the forthcoming Law & Order SVU: Sexiled TV movie featuring Cassidy returning to the NYPD and proving Bruno is a crooked cop...

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wknt3

wknt3

12 hours ago, illdoc said:

She's ba-a-ack! For one episode (or two, depending on how you count--SVU finale and next to last episode of OC): https://tvline.com/2023/04/11/kelli-giddish-returning-law-and-order-svu-season-24-rollins-pregnant/  

Damn you Dick Wolf Productions and NBC! How am I supposed to make fun of you when you keep taking our sarcastic suggestions as literal notes? Admit it - if I told you they were bringing Rollins back for a guest spot and making it an OC crossover with the shocking revelation being that she's pregnant you would assume it was satire about how they were out of ideas. I wonder if the big finale shocker is another "unforeseeable" hostage situation with the possibility of everyone but Ice T and Mariska leaving due to PTSD to provide leverage for contract renegotiations/cast cuts?

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

9 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Damn you Dick Wolf Productions and NBC! How am I supposed to make fun of you when you keep taking our sarcastic suggestions as literal notes? Admit it - if I told you they were bringing Rollins back for a guest spot and making it an OC crossover with the shocking revelation being that she's pregnant you would assume it was satire about how they were out of ideas. I wonder if the big finale shocker is another "unforeseeable" hostage situation with the possibility of everyone but Ice T and Mariska leaving due to PTSD to provide leverage for contract renegotiations/cast cuts?

This show has become a parody of itself pretty much. The writers are out of ideas and the show is a soapy mess.

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

14 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Damn you Dick Wolf Productions and NBC! How am I supposed to make fun of you when you keep taking our sarcastic suggestions as literal notes? Admit it - if I told you they were bringing Rollins back for a guest spot and making it an OC crossover with the shocking revelation being that she's pregnant you would assume it was satire about how they were out of ideas. I wonder if the big finale shocker is another "unforeseeable" hostage situation with the possibility of everyone but Ice T and Mariska leaving due to PTSD to provide leverage for contract renegotiations/cast cuts?

Isn't that pretty much where all NBC Dick Wolf shows have been going lately? Or rather for a while?

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Xeliou66

Xeliou66

13 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Isn't that pretty much where all NBC Dick Wolf shows have been going lately? Or rather for a while?

I don’t watch the Chicago shows but I know they are extremely soapy and heavily focused on the characters personal lives. The FBI shows are pretty good, they air on CBS and have some personal stuff but are more case centric. The Mothership has stuck to its formula of very little personal stuff, the writing has some flaws but I like how they’ve stuck to the formula. I haven’t watch much of OC this year but it has a lot of personal stuff like SVU I know. SVU has just become a bad joke and parody of itself - after watching how great it was in the early seasons it’s hard to believe the current show is the same show. 

wknt3

wknt3

4 hours ago, CrystalBlue said:

Judging from the comments on the Kelli Coming Back to SVU article, it's a positive move as the fans love Amanda Rollins and want her back.  Her replacement Muncy as well as Churlish are not that popular.  Who knew?  😄


Yeah it's almost like Dick Wolf and NBC making casting decisions based on money and then allowing the writers and producers to make creative decisions driven by Mariska not liking anyone younger and their perceptions of Millennials and dislilke of the mandated changes was a bad idea. Who knew? I mean it's not like the franchise has much experience in what works and what doesn't when it comes to casting changes.

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katisha

katisha

Just posting again to say that in Australia on Sunday nights, one of the local channels is showing re-runs of really early SVU and ironically, tonight's first episode was Manhunt from S2.  Munch and Fin were very much front and centre in this episode and Richard Belzer did some really good work, especially right at the end where he told the rape victim who had escaped the serial killers that she could sleep with her lights out now because they'd caught the perp.  

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Culture Check: How do we recognize and address victim blaming as a community? If you are unsure what victim-blaming is, please read more about it in this article. 

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