S03.E10: Celebrations

CindyK · February 4, 2016

I don't think Vanessa is as poor of a communicator as others are making her out to be. Sure, she handled the bbq situation less than perfectly, but she returned the next day and admitted fault. Prior to that, she had been pretty upfront about her concerns with Trey's drinking and had a some frank conversations with him on their honeymoon about his past.

She is a new bride and is trying to feel things out to see if she can trust him long-term. He sends up some major red flags for me as a viewer, so can imagine that Vanessa sees some of these things too. In the end they may not be right for each other and that's okay.

BBDi · February 4, 2016

Vanessa has a lot going for her but she is young and maybe not as ready for marriage as she thinks she is. If nothing else, maybe she'll learn something from this "experiment" that will help her in the future.

moonxyz · February 4, 2016

Vaness is way more ready then Tres is or will ever be. Tres has no tact. Tres does insensitive shit then tries to act like he did nothing wrong.

qtpye · February 4, 2016

But now I see big cold feet. He is backing off and playing on her insecurities to get her to back off. The Jenna thing was a mess all around. I agree Vanessa totally over-reacted and actually played right into his hand. But I believe he's doing other, more subtle back-offs that on the surface seem minor and petty when addressed but I think Vanessa feels it. The dog thing sounds petty, but I think there has been a shift in his behavior all around in several ways and she senses.it.

They painted Davina as a giant bitch, when she was just responding to the fact that Sean was only there for the cameras and not to get married. He had tried out and been rejected from many other reality shows and just wanted to make a name for himself. The experts still do not admit that they were totally conned by him.

Davina had her issues (other wise she would have never signed up for this), but just like David and Neil, she was sincere in her intentions.

Tres is a typical guy....he knew something was up regarding the love comment only because Vanessa made it apparent she was pissed. But he did not pick up on Vanessa's jealous behavior towards Jenna, or her total rudeness "disguised" as being friendly.

Please, he totally noticed it and enjoyed every second of it. Probably in his mind it was kind of the equivalent of having two attractive women fighting for him. He knew he was making Vanessa insecure by talking about how awesome Jenna is. He has a long friendship with Jenna, where he just met Vanessa a couple of weeks ago. This made Vanessa insecure and Tres was either knowingly or unknowingly, fueling the flames.

I agree with the poster above that Vanessa totally played into his hands, by acting so insecure and clingy. She should have just welcomed the friend (who was trying to be nice and friendly) with open arms.

I don't know if Tres was purposefully making her uncomfortable, but he did notice how jealous and possessive Vanessa got when Jenna was around. Then he reacted to the love commit in a weird way, making Vanessa feel even worse.

By the way, Vanessa's reaction to Jenna was Vanessa's fault not Jenna's (unless there is unseen footage of Jenna being bitch to Vanessa).

Evil Queen · February 4, 2016

I fully believe that Sam has narcissistic personality disorder. She will never change. She will always belittle and demean Neil because that's who she is as a person. Neil was very uncomfortable at that picnic. His friend was right to be worried about him. Sam brushed it off and said he'd be fine because she doesn't give a shit and it wasn't about her.

This is what I have said as well. She totally has a narcissistic personality disorder. She was horrible at the picnic. Neil isn't saying anything because if he does he has to worry about how she will react or if she will belittle him in front of his friends. She acts like she knows him so well but she has no clue. I bet anything he is a pretty open guy for the regular person but because she is so horrible and was from the get go you can tell that is why he isn't with Sam. She was very dismissive to Neil's friend when he said something about how Neil was being and that he would have talked to him to see what was going on. Some of the things Sammie was saying came off as if Sam has/does this stuff to her as well. I hope that during all this stuff that Neil's friends took him aside and let him know they were worried for him. She is just unreal when talking about his happiness. PLEASE she could care less. Its all about her and her being happy which is terrible others down and making sure things are all about her. Everything seems to be about what she likes to do (the silks) but we have yet to see them do something he is into and likes to do. Even where they live is about her. I would hope that he isn't giving her money for a share in the place or even the show (if they give them anything for rent). Really could someone give that girl a damn brush already!!! And stop putting little girl clips in the hair already!

Ashley during their party...I love how they have her talking, smiling and laughing with some of his friends and she is saying over it how she is alone. LOL Its not David's fault she doesn't feel married or part of things. That is on her. She is the one that said she didn't want him and wasn't into him near him in a married way so why would he decide during that party to go near and touch her. She doesn't want it and he knows it. I don't buy her having any issues but she doesn't want David because he isn't her type and nothing more. That is it. She hasn't put crap into trying at all with this so called married she got herself into and made it clear she wants nothing to do with David in that manner. So I think anything that goes on with them at this point is producer driven. If it wasn't then they wouldn't have anything to show for them anymore but them sitting in quiet in different rooms or different places altogether.

Tres saying he has a lot of female friends and they ask him out for drinks. That came off bad to me but this girl and how Vanessa behaved came off so awkward. Then hanging on Tres was pathetic like. I just know I am so sick of this "they have fears of abandonment" crap. Her dad left when she was what 18 and we have yet to even know exactly what happened there. How do we know she didn't just stop talking to him because of the parents divorce? Things like that do happen. If either of them should have the fear of being abandoned it should be Tres and even that we don't know the true story on things. Neither of them are ready for being married IMO. Him talking about going out like he would came off like he rather be doing that then being married. He may not be a touchy feely person but when Vanessa is with him he always looks disinterested. I think he got what he wanted from her and that was it. I think him asking her what she wanted with the husband thing was good because what does she expect. With the dog that is her dog and not his. IF she was really worried over it I would bet he wouldn't have ran off but obviously it was over the love comments and possibly having Jenna as a friend. I just don't see running off over things like this though when they should have talked. She was acting very immature over so much that seemed like nothing at this point. Sure he could have answered differently about the love thing but he didn't and it is a big word to use so soon when they don't know each other. Right now, between the guys can't be friends with her because they want something other then friendship and the way Tres acted about the word love, she is coming off like she isn't used to some guy being "in love" with her right off the bat. Since Tres isn't she is not happy with him. What might help her though with what she needs to say is writing this stuff down so thoughts are gathered to tell him as she needs. I know I have had to do that before because otherwise I just don't get all I have to say out or its easier to say it in a manner that isn't coming off in a bad way.

And for some reason my dvr cut out I don't know how much of the end of the show. It stopped at Tres and Vanessa talking the next day.

operalover · February 4, 2016

They are horrible with the production of this show! In one of Vanessa's talking heads, she is on the tan sofa in Sam's house.

Yes HORRIBLE! Something will be going on, like they were getting ready for the bar-b-q and they will throw in a Talking head confessional that could have been taped at any point in the taping and not in regard to what is going on then. while preparing for the Barbque, they showed a TH of Ashley saying a real general "Any marriage is hard! I knew that marriage is not easy for anyone and even strangers. I am going to try and give it my best because David is committed to at as well and he is really trying and so will I" She will say vague things like that and they throw these THs in random order. Then they will shove in an "expert" with some random useless commentary. It killed me this week when one of them said "A wedding is where you are introduced as a couple for the first time to your friends. Throwing a party together is where your friends see you as a couple at your house. This really is meaningful to the couple and their friends so very meaningful because they are making memories together, which creates a history for them and I thought I would explain this to you dopes at home because it is so very profound and you probably don't understand how important it is that these couples have a party"

Soup333 · February 4, 2016

Please, he totally noticed it and enjoyed every second of it. Probably in his mind it was kind of the equivalent of having two attractive women fighting for him. He knew he was making Vanessa insecure by talking about how awesome Jenna is. He has a long friendship with Jenna, where he just met Vanessa a couple of weeks ago. This made Vanessa insecure and Tres was either knowingly or unknowingly, fueling the flames.

How do you know this? Can Vanessa at least be responsible for her own insecurities?

stuckin60s · February 4, 2016

1. T&V - I dont think Tres is that manipulative. All he said regarding the love comment was that is a big word. V overreacted...

She is going to ruin this. Her father left when she was a teenager, had to be horrible. But she is grown and has probably had a boyfriend or two. Tres was a party boy, he admits it. He invited his friends over for the bbq. Jenna was one of his friends. I think the look you guys were seeing from jenna was more of one of concern for Tres. He has been her friend for a long time. Now he has married someone he doesnt know. Perhaps Jenna was looking out for him. Vanessa fight the next day was horrible, she has issues of abandonment and that's the first thing she does when upset - leave. I do agree people can have friends of the opposite sex. If my husband told me that someone could not be my friend just because of a chromosome, we would have to have a conversation. these people don't know each other well enough to make those kind of demands. Everyone complained that their story was boring compared to the other two, now we have drama.

2 N&S - If you look at the previews of the decision day, Sam is clutching Neils hand and crying, Neil just looks like a truck is coming and he cant get out of the way. I think Neil is great and Sam is a mean crazy loon. I hate to say it but I think they will stay together. I would hope that Neil could say he cares but doesn't think she could change. but just like the hand exercise, his TH said he was disappointed, but all he did was lay his head on the couch.

3. A&D - She is an educated professional student. she knows what to do in awkward situations. I don't buy this "I'm too shy" stuff. She is self absorbed, selfish, mean and totally out of her league. Looking at the party, they were in the same room on several shots. She just wasn't the center of his attention. ( even though she says she doesn't want it) David overplays, I think he just wants to be married and if he says my wife enough, he can make it happen ( he is a salesman)

4. experts- I am sure that the producers told them what was going on during the filming. If they were truly there to help these people thru the process, there would have been a lot of intervention. It seems to me that season 1 had a lot more interaction with the experts.

just by the previews of the decision day - I think Sam and Neil will be the only ones to continue. I would like to see the others agree to date until the 6 months reunion show without cameras.

jmonkey · February 4, 2016

One common thread for all 3 couples this season is how little the husbands expect from their wives and how much the wives expect from their husbands in return.

Tres and Vanessa-I don't think Tres had any kind of malicious intent when he invited his female friend to the party. Tres is just one of the those guys that's cool with everyone. The way it was edited it seemed like his friend was into him and was waiting out the marriage. I definitely didn't get platonic vibes from her and there was tension there, but I didn't see anything to suggest that Tres wasn't all about Vanessa at the party. They even kissed in front of the friend to solidify their commitment to each other. What irks me about Vanessa is that she has all these husband expectations for Tres that she has yet to articulate. Tres is really trying to be the best he can be and all she has to do is communicate her feelings with him. But, no, the moment there's a minor conflict she runs away like she's Ryan D. from Season 2. It seems like the only requirement Tres has for Vanessa is that she not abandon him when they have a disagreement. You know it wouldn't fly if Tres abandoned Vanessa in the middle of an argument. He just wanted to talk it out even if it meant her yelling at him. I don't get what her problem was in the first place. Love is a big word that shouldn't be taken lightly. Married or not, it shouldn't be uttered within the first month of meeting someone. Vanessa seems to be looking for nonexistent red flags to sabotage the relationship, but Tres seems like a really good, patient guy for her.

Neil and Sam-This is the first episode where I could see a marriage between Neil and Sam working. Of course it has to be on Sam's terms and she has to be the one who wears the short shorts in the relationship. I've noticed that as long as the focus is on Sam that they can function as a couple. Whether it's a surprise birthday for Sam, Jewish cooking, or exercising with silks, if Neil takes an interest in Sam's life, then they're okay. I've seen marriages like this work. My brother and dad are both whipped and the marriage works only because they're willing to walk on eggshells for their wives. They know that if they step out of line, their wives will shun them as we saw when Neil made an innocent joke and was kicked out of the apartment by Sam. It seems like Neil's friends were similar to Sam so he can deal with that personality type. And if he's really as selfless IRL as he appears on the show, there's a possibility of this marriage lasting a little while. However, I can't imagine anyone being able to tolerate or asskiss Sam for an eternity. Even so, I think Sam will find comfort in Neil being there for her, and Neil is solid enough that he doesn't need the same in return. His only requirement seems to be that they live under the same roof. That's quite a reasonable request since they are married.

David and Ashley-David doesn't need much from the Stache. He just wants validation that he's done something right. The guy can't buy a compliment from this dead fish. I found it quite disingenuous that they presented the facade of the happy newlyweds at the party when both are just waiting this experiment out. But then again I think it's quite common for married couples to put on a front even if their marriage is deteriorating. It's only natural for people to put on their happy face for a party. I thought Ashley did a great job interacting with David's friends. She wasn't as awkward as I was expecting her to be. I found it bizarre that none of her friends attended the party, and I could see her point about feeling alone at the party. However, what could David do about it when he needed to man the grill? It's not like she could join him because she was baking in the kitchen. I agree with David that it was good for her to interact with his friends without him being there. She's definitely someone who could use practice socializing. It doesn't surprise me if David does indeed plan on meeting another woman for drinks. His self-esteem has taken quite a blow being married to Ashley and he's probably just putting a dagger into this marriage. It's unfortunate though because Ashley is going to play the victim card and run with it while David is going to get ostracized from the experts and the host of the reunion show for attempting to cheat. David had the upperhand until this transgression, and I wish he could've just waited a couple of weeks to do this. Of course maybe it's really nothing. We'll find out next week.

JapMo · February 4, 2016

I have never seen anything about Tres that makes me think he's insincere. Of course, I said the same about Ryan D for weeks and weeks when people were zeroing in on him at the altar, but whatever. I've never understood the true definition of a Player. Is a guy that dates a lot a Player? Tres seems to have a very easygoing disposition. You can tell he is the apple of his family's eye and was probably doted on, probably even more so to compensate for his mom's absence. But I'm not seeing a sense of entitlement from him, or any particular arrogance or vanity. He's refreshingly straightforward in his discussions with Vanessa about how they need to communicate better and their goals. He admits he liked to party but last episode he also said he was also thinking for awhile how he'd like to find someone to settle down with. The thing about Vanessa and Tres is they do seem to like each other and apparently think each other is attractive. I don't buy from what I've seen so far that he's about to jump ship, or he's getting bored with her. Maybe the show is covering things up because these two hit it off so quickly and the show really needed another hit a la Jason & Courtney. If that's the case, I will be disappointed, because I think these two are nice people and probably could make a go of it together once the cameras go away.

Tara Ariano · February 4, 2016

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

'I Think I'd Like To Sit On It And Swing A Little,' Says Man In Sexless Marriage On Married At First Sight
It's the Fourth of July and the couples are hosting (forced) barbecues. Whose cookout failed hardest this week?

qtpye · February 4, 2016

Please, he totally noticed it and enjoyed every second of it. Probably in his mind it was kind of the equivalent of having two attractive women fighting for him. He knew he was making Vanessa insecure by talking about how awesome Jenna is. He has a long friendship with Jenna, where he just met Vanessa a couple of weeks ago. This made Vanessa insecure and Tres was either knowingly or unknowingly, fueling the flames.

How do you know this? Can Vanessa at least be responsible for her own insecurities?

Vanessa is responsible for her own insecurities. No one can make you feel insecure unless you let them. All responsibility begins and ends with her.

Edited February 4, 2016 by qtpye

okerry · February 4, 2016

I don't think Vanessa reacted badly to Jenna because of "abandonment issues." I cannot imagine any wife being happy when her husband's hot female friend walks in, and both of their faces light up on seeing each other, and he refers to the female friend as "my girl."

Vanessa is reacting badly because her husband is putting the feelings of "just a friend" over those of his wife. Her gut is screaming at her that there's something very wrong here, and she's right.

I don't understand people who think they can get married but still change nothing about their old lives, including putting attractive opposite-sex friends first and expecting their spouses to take second place and smile about it. Being Married means your husband/wife comes first - period. Not your hot friends or former screwbuddies or previous lovers.

If you're not willing to put your spouse first 100% of the time, you should not be married. If your first reaction to that idea is, "But what about my friend???" then You Should Not Be Married.

stuckin60s · February 4, 2016

At Tres and Vanessa's party. Vanessa is introduced to Jenna. Jenna says something like " I have been so looking forward to meeting you". Vanessa just turned and walked away.

I don't think it was Tres being manipulative

could have been the editors, but for what I saw this is all on Vanessa.

Palomar · February 4, 2016

I don't know what to think about David asking out another girl. I need to hear the explanation first. Like if he was just frustrated & fed up & made a mistake, that's one thing. All David has been saying is how much he wants his marriage to work & how hard he's been trying. For him to then go outside the marriage is really slimy- especially when this process is 6 weeks long. He couldn't wait till after that if/when they decide to get divorced? I know Ashley hasn't shown any interest in David & she did just tell him she's not attracted to him. BUT she has been committed to this process even if the effort hasn't been there 100%.

Yeah, so far we have no idea if this was a tease or what. It could be something as innocent as the woman being someone David works with or a female friend he is commiserating with about his doomed marriage with drinks after work while Ashley is at school. It doesn't mean he is cheating. Plus Ashley doesn't exactly tell David what she is up to (for example when she took her exam and didn't come home for hours). If it was a real marriage and Ashley didn't know about it....it might be a red flag, but as Ashley keeps bringing up..."they are strangers". I could be wrong of course.

Not sure I agree Ashley has been committed to the process....it is more like she has "shown up" and that is all she thinks is required.

Evil Queen · February 4, 2016

Neil and Sam-This is the first episode where I could see a marriage between Neil and Sam working. Of course it has to be on Sam's terms and she has to be the one who wears the short shorts in the relationship. I've noticed that as long as the focus is on Sam that they can function as a couple. Whether it's a surprise birthday for Sam, Jewish cooking, or exercising with silks, if Neil takes an interest in Sam's life, then they're okay. I've seen marriages like this work. My brother and dad are both whipped and the marriage works only because they're willing to walk on eggshells for their wives. They know that if they step out of line, their wives will shun them as we saw when Neil made an innocent joke and was kicked out of the apartment by Sam. It seems like Neil's friends were similar to Sam so he can deal with that personality type. And if he's really as selfless IRL as he appears on the show, there's a possibility of this marriage lasting a little while. However, I can't imagine anyone being able to tolerate or asskiss Sam for an eternity. Even so, I think Sam will find comfort in Neil being there for her, and Neil is solid enough that he doesn't need the same in return. His only requirement seems to be that they live under the same roof. That's quite a reasonable request since they are married.

I think he has more requirements then just under the same roof but considering how Sam is there is no way to have his needs met because its all about her. I grew up in a household that was like this. Its not the way to live. IF they were to have kids she would do the same thing to a child she does to Neil. That effects the self esteem of that child just as it can the adult. No spouse or child should EVER have to feel like they are walking on eggshells all the time. And it only works for those in that situation because they are doing that. Otherwise its not working if those people speak up to the person behaving like Sam. My mom and sister are both like Sam. I find them to be nothing but toxic people and have little contact (would prefer none) with them because of it. Yet I am the bad person for it. Anyone that will listen to their BS will be told this too. I have always wondered why my dad has stayed in that marriage but its more so because he has been beaten down over the years and that was it. When my mom went to work evenings our house was so much more pleasant during those times. It is not a healthy way to live or grow up in that kind of household. I refuse to have my kids around that as well. I hope Neil runs from this marriage otherwise he won't be happy in life. The marriage should be about both of them being happy and not just doing everything to keep the one happy because if they don't it will set that one off. Its just not healthy for anyone.

seasick · February 4, 2016

This is what I have said as well. She totally has a narcissistic personality disorder. She was horrible at the picnic. Neil isn't saying anything because if he does he has to worry about how she will react or if she will belittle him in front of his friends. She acts like she knows him so well but she has no clue. I bet anything he is a pretty open guy for the regular person but because she is so horrible and was from the get go you can tell that is why he isn't with Sam. She was very dismissive to Neil's friend when he said something about how Neil was being and that he would have talked to him to see what was going on. Some of the things Sammie was saying came off as if Sam has/does this stuff to her as well. I hope that during all this stuff that Neil's friends took him aside and let him know they were worried for him. She is just unreal when talking about his happiness. PLEASE she could care less. Its all about her and her being happy which is terrible others down and making sure things are all about her. Everything seems to be about what she likes to do (the silks) but we have yet to see them do something he is into and likes to do. Even where they live is about her. I would hope that he isn't giving her money for a share in the place or even the show (if they give them anything for rent). Really could someone give that girl a damn brush already!!! And stop putting little girl clips in the hair already!

.

I agree. And...She can be so gross looking. I also liked the quote you took from SOUP.

Yes HORRIBLE! Something will be going on, like they were getting ready for the bar-b-q and they will throw in a Talking head confessional that could have been taped at any point in the taping and not in regard to what is going on then. while preparing for the Barbque, they showed a TH of Ashley saying a real general "Any marriage is hard! I knew that marriage is not easy for anyone and even strangers. I am going to try and give it my best because David is committed to at as well and he is really trying and so will I" She will say vague things like that and they throw these THs in random order. Then they will shove in an "expert" with some random useless commentary. It killed me this week when one of them said "A wedding is where you are introduced as a couple for the first time to your friends. Throwing a party together is where your friends see you as a couple at your house. This really is meaningful to the couple and their friends so very meaningful because they are making memories together, which creates a history for them and I thought I would explain this to you dopes at home because it is so very profound and you probably don't understand how important it is that these couples have a party"

LOL. So true..The expert commentary makes me wonder if *they* just figured this stuff out They are so useless.. For awhile I started to research where and when the TH's were recorded --it annoyed me so much. I almost always ignore the Ashley TH's that are positive, as many were recorded before they were married.

Evil Queen · February 4, 2016

I agree. And...She can be so gross looking. I also liked the quote you took from SOUP.

LOL. So true..The expert commentary makes me wonder if *they* just figured this stuff out They are so useless.. For awhile I started to research where and when the TH's were recorded --it annoyed me so much. I almost always ignore the Ashley TH's that are positive, as many were recorded before they were married.

You would think that one would want to look at least decent for the cameras. I'd say for Neil too but that is pointless.

And agree on the THs and commentary made. I'd like to know when they are filmed because they never seem to match up with anything or its random crazy talk from an expert it seems like. I think at this point its hard to even take those for what they are during the scenes. Like I said the Ashley one didn't match with the scene on the screen. She was saying she was alone but she was smiling, laughing and talking to David's friends. So whoever edits this stuff isn't doing their job very well there. Then throw in the old THs over and over again to make things look like something they aren't. I guess those running the show thing those of us watching are stupid and not catching it but we are.

Jora30 · February 4, 2016

I don't think Vanessa reacted badly to Jenna because of "abandonment issues." I cannot imagine any wife being happy when her husband's hot female friend walks in, and both of their faces light up on seeing each other, and he refers to the female friend as "my girl."

Vanessa is reacting badly because her husband is putting the feelings of "just a friend" over those of his wife. Her gut is screaming at her that there's something very wrong here, and she's right.

I don't understand people who think they can get married but still change nothing about their old lives, including putting attractive opposite-sex friends first and expecting their spouses to take second place and smile about it. Being Married means your husband/wife comes first - period. Not your hot friends or former screwbuddies or previous lovers.

If you're not willing to put your spouse first 100% of the time, you should not be married. If your first reaction to that idea is, "But what about my friend???" then You Should Not Be Married.

This is nonsense. In what way did he put Jenna first over Vanessa? Literally all he did was greet her and introduce her to Vanessa before Vanessa immediately started giving her the stink-eye, clinging all over Tres and then ignoring her. Yes, Tres was excited to see Jenna, because she is his friend and she's been a part of his life for a long time... hence why he wanted her to meet his wife. If he didn't care about Vanessa he wouldn't have even bothered to introduce them. What did you expect him to do, shake Jenna's hand and act like she doesn't matter? Marriage is not about suppressing your friendships or acting like they don't exist. He is not obligated to end or downplay his friendship with Jenna because he is married. If Vanessa can't deal with him having female friends that is her problem, not his. Edited February 4, 2016 by Jora30

qtpye · February 4, 2016

es HORRIBLE! Something will be going on, like they were getting ready for the bar-b-q and they will throw in a Talking head confessional that could have been taped at any point in the taping and not in regard to what is going on then. while preparing for the Barbque, they showed a TH of Ashley saying a real general "Any marriage is hard! I knew that marriage is not easy for anyone and even strangers. I am going to try and give it my best because David is committed to at as well and he is really trying and so will I" She will say vague things like that and they throw these THs in random order. Then they will shove in an "expert" with some random useless commentary. It killed me this week when one of them said "A wedding is where you are introduced as a couple for the first time to your friends. Throwing a party together is where your friends see you as a couple at your house. This really is meaningful to the couple and their friends so very meaningful because they are making memories together, which creates a history for them and I thought I would explain this to you dopes at home because it is so very profound and you probably don't understand how important it is that these couples have a party"

LOL. So true..The expert commentary makes me wonder if *they* just figured this stuff out They are so useless.. For awhile I started to research where and when the TH's were recorded --it annoyed me so much. I almost always ignore the Ashley TH's that are positive, as many were recorded before they were married.

Breaking news from the experts...water is wet and the sun is yellow. Sometime when they go on with wedding is bla bla and a honeymoon is where you bla bla, I wonder if they are just reading things from a dictionary.

Edited February 4, 2016 by qtpye

seasick · February 4, 2016

Neil and Sam-This is the first episode where I could see a marriage between Neil and Sam working. Of course it has to be on Sam's terms and she has to be the one who wears the short shorts in the relationship. I've noticed that as long as the focus is on Sam that they can function as a couple. Whether it's a surprise birthday for Sam, Jewish cooking, or exercising with silks, if Neil takes an interest in Sam's life, then they're okay. I've seen marriages like this work. My brother and dad are both whipped and the marriage works only because they're willing to walk on eggshells for their wives. They know that if they step out of line, their wives will shun them as we saw when Neil made an innocent joke and was kicked out of the apartment by Sam. It seems like Neil's friends were similar to Sam so he can deal with that personality type. And if he's really as selfless IRL as he appears on the show, there's a possibility of this marriage lasting a little while. However, I can't imagine anyone being able to tolerate or asskiss Sam for an eternity. Even so, I think Sam will find comfort in Neil being there for her, and Neil is solid enough that he doesn't need the same in return. His only requirement seems to be that they live under the same roof. That's quite a reasonable request since they are married.

The thought of this as a relationship that "works" turns my stomach. Neil is being 'selfless' only because Sam sucks all the air out of the room and there is no allowance for anyone else's thoughts, feelings, or needs except Sam's. It is so sick. . I pray someone can get through to Neil.

okerry · February 4, 2016

(Re T&V) But now I see big cold feet. He is backing off and playing on her insecurities to get her to back off. The Jenna thing was a mess all around. I agree Vanessa totally over-reacted and actually played right into his hand. But I believe he's doing other, more subtle back-offs that on the surface seem minor and petty when addressed but I think Vanessa feels it. The dog thing sounds petty, but I think there has been a shift in his behavior all around in several ways and she senses.it.

No Tres wants out. He wants Vanessa to pull the trigger. He wants it to look like she's too demanding and insecure. (snip) I believe at some point he considered it but he's decided he doesn't want to settle down yet and I don't believe it has anything to do with Vanessa.

ITA. When somebody wants out of a relationship but doesn't want to look like the bad guy, they'll often begin sabotaging it. That little bit with Jenna was the perfect example of it.

Please, he totally noticed it and enjoyed every second of it. Probably in his mind it was kind of the equivalent of having two attractive women fighting for him. He knew he was making Vanessa insecure by talking about how awesome Jenna is. He has a long friendship with Jenna, where he just met Vanessa a couple of weeks ago. This made Vanessa insecure and Tres was either knowingly or unknowingly, fueling the flames.

Oh, yes. Having women fight over them is like a drug to most men. So, he not only gets to enjoy that but he gets to begin the sabotage of a relationship that he doesn't really want. Then everyone will blame Vanessa for being uptight and "insecure" about other women in Tres' life and very soon he'll be free to leave and find someone better. It works every time.

The thought of this as a relationship that "works" turns my stomach. Neil is being 'selfless' only because Sam sucks all the air out of the room and there is no allowance for anyone else's thoughts, feelings, or needs except Sam's. It is so sick. . I pray someone can get through to Neil.

I completely agree with those who say Sam is a narcissist. I've seen this before and she behaves exactly the same way: They only see other people in terms of "What can you do for me?" and the second you become any sort of liability, you're instantly discarded and subjected to their rage and revenge - you know, kicked out of your house without a key, just for starters. That sort of behaviour is very typical. And you only get to come back if YOU apologize to the narcissist, because hell will freeze over before they'll ever apologize to you for anything.

Narcs are also notorious for being able to snow any sort of therapist, counselor, psychologist, etc. I was married to a narc and we ended up in marriage counseling. After talking to my former husband alone, the counselor assured me that he loved me, was devoted, wanted to save the marriage, etc. I told her that he was lying to her the same way he was lying to me, and she rather indignantly told me that she thought she'd be able to spot that sort of thing.

Less than a year later, he had divorced me and married someone else.

So, it wouldn't surprise me at all that these so-called experts, especially, would be utterly blind to Sam's narcissism. But yes, somebody needs to get Neil out of there or he's going to spend his life as Sam's pussywhipped little bitch and think it's normal. It isn't.

I sure thought Sam was a narc and I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it.

Neurochick · February 4, 2016

Vanessa. Just last week I said she would fuck this up for herself and here she goes proving me right. I DON'T think Tres invited Jenna to be manipulative or to covertly watch to see what Vanessa's reaction would be. That would suggest a cruelty in him that I just don't see. Vanessa needs counseling. Period. She needs to deal with her abandonment issues, but she also needs to learn how to communicate. Tres was talking to her and she had her head completely turned to the side. I read that as dismissive.

Vanessa needs to grow up. Why? Because your spouse can't be everything to you all of the time, you need friends, he needs friends. I've been in relationships where we were for each other 100%, to me that's called hostage taking. "If you love MEEEE, you wouldn't talk to anybody else but MEEE." Vanessa wants to take Tres hostage, "I have abandonment ISSUES, I need you to be there for ME and MY dog." What Vanessa needs is a good therapist, and to stop watching romantic comedies and movies like Titanic.

Another one who's all about Me, Me, Me is Sam. Neil is fine as long as he caters to Sam.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Neurochick

Empress1 · February 4, 2016

The thought of this as a relationship that "works" turns my stomach. Neil is being 'selfless' only because Sam sucks all the air out of the room and there is no allowance for anyone else's thoughts, feelings, or needs except Sam's. It is so sick. . I pray someone can get through to Neil.

Yeah, I can't remember one time where Sam has shown an interest in Neil's interests. Every activity they've done has been about Sam. Neil arranged the mystery dinner for Sam's birthday, Neil went to the aerial gym, Neil cooked Sam's food ... I haven't seen Sam try to get to know Neil at all. When he was talking about his childhood, she wasn't even looking at him - she was staring straight ahead shoveling soup in her gaping maw.

Also, this doesn't seem like a couple who's going to have sex, ever. Sam has given some hints, which I think is weird (but maybe she's just horny), but Neil doesn't seem interested in having sex with her. I think at best, they could be friends. Not very close friends because again, Sam doesn't take any interest in stuff that involves him. But maybe they could hang out for drinks every so often.

It also struck me that one of Neil's friends asked why they thought they were matched and Sam started again with "We're both nice, compassionate people." I haven't seen a drop of that from Sam, but I think she really believes it about herself. Neil used the word "bully" to describe her and her roommate Sammie didn't seem like she disagreed.

Kira53 · February 4, 2016

I don't think Vanessa reacted badly to Jenna because of "abandonment issues." I cannot imagine any wife being happy when her husband's hot female friend walks in, and both of their faces light up on seeing each other, and he refers to the female friend as "my girl."

Vanessa is reacting badly because her husband is putting the feelings of "just a friend" over those of his wife. Her gut is screaming at her that there's something very wrong here, and she's right.

I don't understand people who think they can get married but still change nothing about their old lives, including putting attractive opposite-sex friends first and expecting their spouses to take second place and smile about it. Being Married means your husband/wife comes first - period. Not your hot friends or former screwbuddies or previous lovers.

If you're not willing to put your spouse first 100% of the time, you should not be married. If your first reaction to that idea is, "But what about my friend???" then You Should Not Be Married.

But what about the fact that you know your wife 4 weeks and your friend 6 or more years? I think some things need to be earned. These are arranged marriages with no prior agreements as to conducts. I think your point are appropriate for marriage when people know each other and chose each other not so much for strangers.

Evil Queen · February 4, 2016

I completely agree with those who say Sam is a narcissist. I've seen this before and she behaves exactly the same way: They only see other people in terms of "What can you do for me?" and the second you become any sort of liability, you're instantly discarded and subjected to their rage and revenge - you know, kicked out of your house without a key, just for starters. That sort of behaviour is very typical. And you only get to come back if YOU apologize to the narcissist, because hell will freeze over before they'll ever apologize to you for anything.

Narcs are also notorious for being able to snow any sort of therapist, counselor, psychologist, etc. I was married to a narc and we ended up in marriage counseling. After talking to my former husband alone, the counselor assured me that he loved me, was devoted, wanted to save the marriage, etc. I told her that he was lying to her the same way he was lying to me, and she rather indignantly told me that she thought she'd be able to spot that sort of thing.

Less than a year later, he had divorced me and married someone else.

So, it wouldn't surprise me at all that these so-called experts, especially, would be utterly blind to Sam's narcissism. But yes, somebody needs to get Neil out of there or he's going to spend his life as Sam's pussywhipped little bitch and think it's normal. It isn't.

I sure thought Sam was a narc and I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it.

Glad another sees this as well. I am sure that even after the so called experts see all these shows that they still won't call her on it. They can't hide how they are 100% of the time which is why we see her for her true self. They aren't that good at it. Sadly they can lie to so many about how things are to make the one they talk about look bad or a certain way. I know that I have been basically made out to be this ungrateful daughter by my mom to whoever she can get to listen to her. I learned though that what she says doesn't matter in the end because I am not that person she tries to make me out to be. I refuse to have my kids around it and see/hear it happen as well. It is just toxic for those that stick around or have to grow up with it. I'm glad you got out of that situation as well. I hope that Neil has friends that care more then enough about his well being to get him out of that.

Yeah, I can't remember one time where Sam has shown an interest in Neil's interests. Every activity they've done has been about Sam. Neil arranged the mystery dinner for Sam's birthday, Neil went to the aerial gym, Neil cooked Sam's food ... I haven't seen Sam try to get to know Neil at all. When he was talking about his childhood, she wasn't even looking at him - she was staring straight ahead shoveling soup in her gaping maw.

Also, this doesn't seem like a couple who's going to have sex, ever. Sam has given some hints, which I think is weird (but maybe she's just horny), but Neil doesn't seem interested in having sex with her. I think at best, they could be friends. Not very close friends because again, Sam doesn't take any interest in stuff that involves him. But maybe they could hang out for drinks every so often.

It also struck me that one of Neil's friends asked why they thought they were matched and Sam started again with "We're both nice, compassionate people." I haven't seen a drop of that from Sam, but I think she really believes it about herself. Neil used the word "bully" to describe her and her roommate Sammie didn't seem like she disagreed.

God forbid they have sex. I know its been said before but she would belittle anything to do with that for the cameras I'm sure and if after the show was done then it would be to whoever was around and would listen to her.

I noticed Neil drop the bully word. He said something like how he didn't want to call her a bully but....I think some of what Sammie was saying shows she has been on that side of things taking hits from Sam herself. It doesn't seem Sam has other friends aside from Sammie either. At least that we have seen. If Sammie has taken some of that abuse over time she should get out of there herself.

seasick · February 4, 2016

Narcs are also notorious for being able to snow any sort of therapist, counselor, psychologist, etc. I was married to a narc and we ended up in marriage counseling. After talking to my former husband alone, the counselor assured me that he loved me, was devoted, wanted to save the marriage, etc. I told her that he was lying to her the same way he was lying to me, and she rather indignantly told me that she thought she'd be able to spot that sort of thing.

So, it wouldn't surprise me at all that these so-called experts, especially, would be utterly blind to Sam's narcissism. But yes, somebody needs to get Neil out of there or he's going to spend his life as Sam's pussywhipped little bitch and think it's normal. It isn't.

I sure thought Sam was a narc and I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it.

Oh Hell Yes!! Sam will not only be the hero of the experts, but now, with her "amazing turnaround". will be the Darling of production too!

The experts will be glowing with self-satisfaction and Production will be over-the-moon that she 'kept us guessing but in the end we got the 'happily ever after" (Barf)

They all wallow in each others' bullshit. One thing about Sam; she understands ego and bullshit innately.

sarkygal · February 5, 2016

Sounds like Tres was raised by women and among women (2 sisters). He may be the type of guy who is naturally comfortable with women. Someone like that probably tends to have a lot of female friends. That is something Vanessa will just have to get used to if they stay married.

And in theory, it should be a good thing because he should have a good understanding of women.

Also if he was the only boy in that family he might be a bit spoiled without realizing it.

You are better at articulating what I wrote last week. It perfectly sums up the Tres that editing allows us to see.

Dear Tres: If you want to make your wife feel like absolute shit, do exactly what you did: Bring over your cute female friend and emphasize to your wife how this cute female is your BFF and you're so happy she's still in your life even though you're, you know, married and stuff now. You score 100% on the "Make your wife feel like garbage" exercise.

Things like that are a real asshole move and unfortunately, men just love to do that. They're poking their wives with a stick to see what it will take to make her start bitching, so he can then start whining that he's a victim of his wife's "controlling" nature and she won't let him do anything sob sob boo-hoo.

Sorry, Tres, but you're a real jerk for throwing your female BFF in your wife's face like that. I don't blame Vanessa one bit for walking out. I just wish she'd done it right in the middle of the party and blown Tres a kiss as she walked out the door, telling him to call her when he's done hanging out with Jenna. Which will be never.

I don't see this at all. That's one very different interpretation of what I watched. I saw a neurotic immature woman who's head has been filled with too much romantic comedy react like a ninny.

Vanessa needs counselling. She has obvious abandonment issues, and that was a bad move to run back to her flat. She was totally dismissive of everything he was saying with her face turned away and pouting like a three year old. She's too immature for my liking.

Love IS a big word. Sane people don't just throw love out there. And 31 days in? Girl, he probably can't even remember your middle name.

.

So much WORD to all of this. Child, take a seat. I watched again and Tres' body language is still affectionate and teasing.

But what about the fact that you know your wife 4 weeks and your friend 6 or more years? I think some things need to be earned. These are arranged marriages with no prior agreements as to conducts. I think your point are appropriate for marriage when people know each other and chose each other not so much for strangers.

Again, thanks for articulating my thoughts. The fantasy marriage Vanessa's dreamed up needs to be earned, IN EVERY WAY. Cooking a few meals together and sharing a bathroom = roommate. Not LOVE of my life. I think she's one of those women who believes that the marriage certificate is the proof of devotion. Because Tres is her husband on paper, he must automatically be the model from the good husband handbook. life doesn't work like that. Most people think Vanessa was ready for marriage, but I think the only thing she's ready for is a fairy tale.

I still stand by my prediction that she will be the one to bail out on the marriage. Tres seems to be acting like a typical 27 year old guy who's found himself married to an attractive woman his family gets along with. Vanessa thinks being married means they're either reading poetry together or showing everyone how much they love each other. If she's so concerned about his partying ways, then go dancing with him and show him you can have fun as a young couple. But don't complain that a man who was clubbing 4 weeks ago is lousy husband material because he's not trying to stay home and watch your dog puke. A TV show (with a terrible record & dubious experts) matched you. Don't be acting like Cupid herself came and shot you both in the ass.

okerry · February 5, 2016

The fantasy marriage Vanessa's dreamed up needs to be earned, IN EVERY WAY. Cooking a few meals together and sharing a bathroom = roommate. Not LOVE of my life. I think she's one of those women who believes that the marriage certificate is the proof of devotion. Because Tres is her husband on paper, he must automatically be the model from the good husband handbook. life doesn't work like that. Most people think Vanessa was ready for marriage, but I think the only thing she's ready for is a fairy tale.

*****(site won't let me add my answer separately) - Anyway, if you substitute "David" for Vanessa, and "Ashley" for "Tres" in the above post, you've got the same situation. Not sure why Tres gets a pass but Ashley doesn't.

Jack Sampson · February 5, 2016

The fantasy marriage Vanessa's dreamed up needs to be earned, IN EVERY WAY. Cooking a few meals together and sharing a bathroom = roommate. Not LOVE of my life. I think she's one of those women who believes that the marriage certificate is the proof of devotion. Because Tres is her husband on paper, he must automatically be the model from the good husband handbook. life doesn't work like that. Most people think Vanessa was ready for marriage, but I think the only thing she's ready for is a fairy tale.

*****(site won't let me add my answer separately) - Anyway, if you substitute "David" for Vanessa, and "Ashley" for "Tres" in the above post, you've got the same situation. Not sure why Tres gets a pass but Ashley doesn't.

There's literally no comparison. Tres is a trillion times more affectionate, caring, committed and physically intimate than the robot.

The reason people are saying Vanessa wants a fantasy is because Tres is giving at least 90% to the marriage and she's criticizing the missing 10%. Stashly, is giving about 2% and wanting credit for 2 million %.

Paddywagon · February 5, 2016

I'm worried Neil will stay with Sam even if she treats him badly.

He admires his grandmother's arranged marriage and how they had to work through difficult times. Neil may believe that he and Sam are just having difficulties and that he needs to stay and work through them. After all, his grandmother and grandfather worked through their difficulties and ended up having a lifelong happy marriage.

Honestly, my only hope for Neil is that his family lets him know what he's putting up with is not normal. Otherwise I truly believe he'll stay through thick and thin at any personal cost. (It may even be an ingrained "honor" thing, although there hasn't been any mention of that.)

I'd never wish divorce on anyone but Neil deserves so much better.

MommyToMyCats · February 5, 2016

A few observations...

1. After this episode, it's official. I'm kind of crushing on Tres, and he's absolutely not my "type." (I know, I'm sick of that word by now too lol). He started to kind of draw me in during the conversation about sharing a bathroom when he was teasing Vanessa about passing gas in her sleep. I love truly good-natured teasing...and that cracked me up. Then, this episode, I actually found myself open to the possibility he was being sincere about wanting to be a good husband to V when they were talking after their fight. I heard an honest concern about not losing himself in the relationship and her expectations of him, but also what could be a real desire to meet her needs as best he can while still maintaining a healthy sense of autonomy. Taking him at face value, he might actually be that easy-going, personable, and sweet. In fact, I think it was the last that I was picking up on the most this week...just a sweetness. And I'm a sucker for innocent, guileless, sweetness. ***As others have mentioned, however, I also am wary of people whose livelihood depends on being smooth talkers. (Being an attorney, I'm quite familiar with this particular brand of individual lol...) Having said that, there are exceptions to every rule, and Tres just might be one.

2. Everyone keeps calling out all the participants as not being ready for marriage, and I would like to offer the opinion that while some might be *more* ready than others, it's impossible to be 100% ready for marriage. I waited until I was 33 to marry, had done years of therapy, months of pre-marital counseling with our pastor, etc...and 6 years later, it's still a learn - and grow - as you go process.

3. I know for a fact it's entirely possible for a man and woman to be completely platonic friends, because me and my (male) best friend are yet another example. We've been besties since 1st grade, have never so much as held hands, and can't imagine ever doing so. Both of our spouses get this and have zero issues with us hanging alone. My husband also has a few single female friends with whom he occasionally hangs out alone. Personally, if I couldn't trust my husband to be out of my sight, I wouldn't have married him. If someone wants to be unfaithful, he/she will be...and why would you want to hold on to someone like that anyway? Not saying husbands/wives shouldn't conduct themselves in a way that is respectful to the other, but I don't think that means categorically and arbitrarily excluding all friendships with members of the opposite sex.

5. People seem shocked as to why the "experts" chose Ashley (and Sam) for the show, as both seem unlikely to easily form quick, healthy matches with others. However, this assumes that the "experts" are making their selections with the goal of creating healthy matches. In my opinion, most participants are chosen for their potential for drama and keeping viewers talking, with a match being a bonus.

5. Based on what's been shown to us so far on tv and her social media, I cannot stand Ashley.

6. Ditto for Sam.

That is all. (-:

Edited February 5, 2016 by MommyToMyCats

princelina · February 5, 2016

There's literally no comparison. Tres is a trillion times more affectionate, caring, committed and physically intimate than the robot.

The reason people are saying Vanessa wants a fantasy is because Tres is giving at least 90% to the marriage and she's criticizing the missing 10%. Stashly, is giving about 2% and wanting credit for 2 million %.

How can I like this a million more times? Except that I don't think Ashley is giving 2% - you're much too generous :)

I mostly wanted to comment about Tres' "Love is a big word" comment - the person who should be getting shit for this is the "I see the love" girlfriend - that's not the type of comment you make in public, (on camera,) in front of two friends who were arranged-marriaged, one month after the wedding! She's the asshole in this situation. Did anyone expect Tres to whirl Vanessa around, take her in his arms and say, "Yes, my darling, I HAVE fallen in love with you and have been waiting for this moment to tell you!" He felt awkward and on-the-spot, and said something stupid and awkward to compensate. Warning: TMI ahead: I was married at age 40, followed by a year or 2 of clueless and rude friends/family who loved to bring up - out of the blue and in front of groups of people (also friends/family) about Mr. P and I "'trying' for kids/pregnancy". There is no way to respond to those comments without making someone feel awkward and embarrassed. (For the record, "Sure, how often do you guys have sex?" is the most rewarding in terms of outraging the original rude askers, as long as you can maintain a straight/innocent face :)

Also, since people are still bringing it up and I never said anything at the time, I'd like to stick up for him again to point out that "passed out drunk" can be a subjective term when bandied around without evidence. To me it implies drooling fully dressed on the sofa, with the door swinging open and the little dog roaming the neighborhood unsupervised. From everything I've read here, Tres went out drinking, beat Vanessa home, put his phone in the charger with the ringtone turned off, changed into his pjs and went to bed. To me that's an okay result of a night "drinking with the guys." Was he snoring and hogging the bed? Mr. P claims I do that every month after book club :) I know that non-drinkers have different definitions of terms like "drunk" and "passed out" and I think that may be where Vanessa is coming from. But we haven't seen other signs, like the painting night or 4th of July, to show that he's this massive booze hound who makes her uncomfortable.

Lastly - I agree the spouse should come first and changes have to be made for marriage. But all Tres has done so far is invite a friend to a party and introduce her to his wife. Is he still going out with this chick several times a week/month, or putting her needs ahead of his wife's? Not that we have seen, or even heard of.

Frankly, I hope this shit is made up for the cameras, just like I suspect Jason and Cortney's stupid conflicts which I never believe in. I like them and think they are cute. AND I did notice Tres standing dutifully in the bathroom while Vanessa primped for the party!!

cardigirl · February 5, 2016

Vanessa is responsible for her own insecurities. No one can make you feel insecure unless you let them. All responsibility begins and ends with her.

Maybe so, but Tres should take some responsibility for his actions and it's pretty thoughtless

to tell your new wife that " your girl" is coming to the party. Get a clue, Tres. Take some cues from how your WIFE is behaving and reassure her.

And yes, Vanessa does deserve a guy who would try to understand, while she works to be more secure, just as she apologized to him for leaving rather than working it out.

Edited February 5, 2016 by cardigirl

Jora30 · February 5, 2016

Maybe so, but Tres should take some responsibility for his actions and it's pretty thoughtless

to tell your new wife that " your girl" is coming to the party. Get a clue, Tres. Take some cues from how your WIFE is behaving and reassure her.

And yes, Vanessa does deserve a guy who would try to understand, while she works to be more secure, just as she apologized to him for leaving rather than working it out.

He used "my girl" in the same way that he would say "my boy" or "my dude" when referring to a good guy friend of his. He was deliberately using that phrase to describe the platonic nature of their relationship. It was obvious that there was absolutely nothing intimate being implied by it. He shouldn't have to spell that out for Vanessa. Is this really that hard to understand?

Besides, the only place I heard him say that phrase was in the TH, not to Vanessa. He didn't go up to Vanessa and say "hey my girl's coming over so get ready." He used it in the right context.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Jora30

operalover · February 5, 2016

Let's discuss the dogs.

Why would a single woman in her twenties who lives ALONE in an Apartment complex in a small apartment and wants to get married and has a very tight budget (poor) have a dog? What does a dog require? A dog requires to be let out every 5-6 hours or so around the clock. Either YOU have to be there to do it or you have to PAY someone to do it. Day in and day out.

It's totally different if you have a roomate/husband/family and a house with a doggie door and yard the dog can let himself out. That is the time in your life to get a dog, when you have the husband and the house, not when you a young single woman looking to marry and live alone. It's absurd.

Imagine this scenario: you are at work and the people at work say lets go out for drinks after work. You say "I cant I have to go home to my dog" or you are on a date and a guy wants to take you to his place "I cant -I have to go home to my dog" Or you new boyfriend wants to take you away for the weekend and you have no money in your monthly budget to pay a dogsitter. There is no spontaneity in your life. You can't take off for the weekend without paying for dog sitting. To me being in your twenties, living alone and single, and wanting a relationship to lead to marriage, and not having a house, is the WRONG time to get a dog.

This is why Vanessa dog craps on the floor. She probably allowed it because she could not get home all the time every 4-5 hours. The only one of the 3 who I can say should/can have a dog is Sam because she has a house with a yard and a roommate so they can share the letting the dog out.

It's ridiculous, especially for Ashley to have a dog and Vanessa as well.

SnarkKitty · February 5, 2016

<snip> Poof! :)

Just finished watching the episode and I have to say what struck me most is how all three women seem to expect the men to conform to what <they> need. None of them seems all that interested in what their husbands might need or want from a marriage.

Ashley seems to want somebody who will always be there to hold her hand and get her through life. Sam wants somebody who sees how awesome she is. And Vanessa seems to want someone who will sense her every mood and read her mind, and respond accordingly. None of them seems to think they need to give a little to get something in return.

Preach! Vanessa especially made me side-eye her when she was so caught up in HER abandonment issues, she thought nothing of how taking off for the night would affect Tres. And you know, KNOW if he had tried that, it would have been game over:

"Jenna (Nola) is my friend (dog), and yeah, I know she was my friend (dog) before we got married, but I would think as my wife (husband), you know, you would care about my friend (dog) and she would become OUR friend (dog). And you just sort of blew her (me) off and said go in the back yard (went to the gym). I expected you to at least support me in making my friend (dog) comfortable. I have to sulk some more, and then leave you here overnight to think about this (aka make YOU think about what minor thing you've done to disproportionately upset me this time.)"

While I do believe men and women can be just friends, as a woman I have to say that every one of my friendships with men ended because they wanted more or at least wanted to sleep with me..... <snip> So I think in most cases there is some sexual interest there on one or the other's part.

I do think men and women can be platonic friends ... when the man is gay or has no interest in sleeping with the woman. Which is zero percent of the time. Even if the guy never, ever approaches in an inappropriate way on his own, he'd have sex with the female friend, if the woman gave any opening. Unless he's married. In which case, he'll only take her up on it 50% of the time. Chris Rock had it right - women have platonic friends. Men have women they haven't had a chance to f**k (yet). Chris Rock - Women's Platonic Friends. Hilarious, and true.

ETA: My daughter, who's had her Yorkie through several apartments, grad school and jobs since graduating college in her 20s (and who is still single) will surely be amused to know it's ridiculous that she has a dog. Never mind the love and care she's given him, and the sacrifice of going home first to walk and feed him, before going back out with her friends for the evening, or on a freezing/rainy morning when she'd rather stay in bed. Or how she finds a sitter (like me) for when she wanted to travel. And forget the comfort and joy he's brought her for the past 10 years, especially after losing her beloved big brother. Nope, she's in her twenties, on a budget, unmarried, formerly in apartments - so no unconditional love and companionship and opportunity to learn how to put somebody else first for you!

And Vanessa's dog craps on the floor because she never bothered to train her properly. A big mistake many small dog owners make. Small dogs can use pads while owners are at work, if need be. But they don't have to - my daughter's doesn't. And he doesn't have to be walked every five hours. It's called feeding schedules & training. Vanessa should look into it, or she's really going to have some problems in her marriage. Everyone isn't like Doug, happy to pick up shit wherever it lands, JAIME.

Edited February 5, 2016 by SnarkKitty

Soup333 · February 5, 2016

Frankly, I don't get why a lot of people are projecting this mustache-twirling persona on a man who has literally said, shown and done nothing to warrant it. It's sounding a little bitter baggage from where I'm sitting.

I'm wondering about this as well. Tres has been called everything but a child of God in these forums and all he did was invite his friend over to a party and introduce her to his wife. I was thinking about Tres and David both being salesmen and how this has been used against them in these discussions. They seem to come across as swarmy and scheming to some. Interestingly enough, I didn't really read any comments about Tres being a calculating luxury car salesman/all around asshole until this episode.

I think Tres would not only have abandonment issues but also some identity issues. A biracial child whose white mother abandoned him twice and was raised by his black relatives...that had to have come up at some point even if it was only something he contemplated internally. I could see him trying to figure out where he fit in - into society, into his family - and hints of that came up in his conversation with Vanessa when he was telling her (practically begging her) to communicate with him about her expectations. He's trying to figure out how to be a husband. Not trying to manipulate his way out of it.

He would be some type of asshole if he intentionally invited Jenna to piss Vanessa off. He knows and identifies with her abandonment issues. To do something like that intentionally would be something I could see Sam doing but not Tres.

cardigirl · February 5, 2016

He used "my girl" in the same way that he would say "my boy" or "my dude" when referring to a good guy friend of his. He was deliberately using that phrase to describe the platonic nature of their relationship. It was obvious that there was absolutely nothing intimate being implied by it. He shouldn't have to spell that out for Vanessa. Is this really that hard to understand?

Besides, the only place I heard him say that phrase was in the TH, not to Vanessa. He didn't go up to Vanessa and say "hey my girl's coming over so get ready." He used it in the right context.

Maybe...

I guess what bothers me most about this entire episode is that everyone seems to think Vanessa had no right to her feelings. If she felt insecure or that she didn't want to trust this "girl" of Tres' that's allowed. Being jealous, insecure, and worried are HER emotions and valid in her eyes. She may have chosen an ineffective way to deal with them by hanging on Tres, and leaving later that night, but she did come back, and she did apologize. And hopefully she and Tres can communicate more about it. I did not here her say, you have to give that "girl" up and never talk to other women again.

I like Tres, he's charming and probably a great salesguy because of it. But charming men can be less than intimate, they can use that charm to put up a wall, use humor to avoid uncomfortable talk. And it can make them less aware of what others might or might not be feeling. So far he seems pretty genuine to us, but if I am 26 and married to him, I might be wondering how sincere he is about the long term.

Snarklepuss · February 5, 2016

I am the one who wrote that black men have the same amount of choices as black women. I do agree with you that society has different standards of beauty for black women and that sometimes makes it very hard. Especially when it comes to hair. I'm not that much into weaves but many of my friends have them. I would prefer the relaxed look or the total natural look. Black women have to work five times as hard as white woman to adhere to the societal norms. I dated this one white woman who would role of bed and look exactly what society says women should look like.

Well, I am back today after taking some time off from the board, due in no small part to yesterday being an extremely busy day at work.

I am sure you're right that black women in general have to try 5 times harder than a lot of white women to look beautiful by current societal standards, but I also think it's worth pointing out in case it's something not in your experience that probably way more white women than not can't just "roll out of bed" looking that way. I have never been one so fortunate. My hair became kinky and curly in my 40s thanks to hormonal changes and it's not the kind of curly that you can just wash and shake out into perfect curls, but a total mess that only a half hour with a flat iron can fix. Plus I am hirsute for a woman with dark hair and very light legs and chin hair that not even the most advanced laser removal can fix - Let me tell you the nightmare I've suffered with THAT all my life just to not look like freakin' sasquatch! I used to kid around that I had "5 o'clock shadow" on my LEGS! (OK that was probably TMI, but I think I've made my point, LOL). Oh yes, and add to that the hair color now that my hair is gray. And the contact lenses. Oh man, I could go on and on.....

Anyway, to get back to the show, from my perspective, Vanessa probably looks way better than I ever did just rolling out of bed, but she is very good looking with an amazing shape and classic bone structure. She totally ROCKED those white pants due to having a very proportionate figure that looks great in clothes right off the rack - I could never have done that even when I was her age!

Edited February 5, 2016 by Snarklepuss

Neurochick · February 5, 2016

I guess what bothers me most about this entire episode is that everyone seems to think Vanessa had no right to her feelings. If she felt insecure or that she didn't want to trust this "girl" of Tres' that's allowed. Being jealous, insecure, and worried are HER emotions and valid in her eyes. She may have chosen an ineffective way to deal with them by hanging on Tres, and leaving later that night, but she did come back, and she did apologize. And hopefully she and Tres can communicate more about it. I did not here her say, you have to give that "girl" up and never talk to other women again.

Vanessa and everybody else in the world have a right to their feelings, what you don't have a right to do is make everybody else responsible for your feelings. Vanessa needs therapy if her issues are that serious. Then the next day Vanessa was upset because of her dog, I think she was still upset with Tres because of Jenna, but when Tres wanted to talk about it, what did Vanessa do? She left. Very mature. The woman needs therapy, marriage is when shit goes down you don't run away, you face your partner and you deal with it.

As for a single woman having a dog, there's a saying that you tell folks who are about to leave rehab, first you have a plant, then a pet, then a relationship. The reason is that many people want to rush into a relationship with another person, but they can't even remember to water a plant or it's an issue feeding a pet. Now, some people don't have green thumbs, I'm not talking about that, but dealing with another human can be challenging and if you have a plant and can't even get your shit together to water it, then maybe you shouldn't be in a relationship.

Edited February 5, 2016 by Neurochick

Snarklepuss · February 5, 2016

Ashley doesn't make it easy for David - but Jeez, he's really blind towards picking up any hints. He's still "My wife", "My wedding anniversy", "Things could've been a lot worse", deliberately/unconsciously ignoring that this isn't working at all, that they are only husband and wife on paper and that she's still a complete stranger. I'm not saying they ever stood a chance, with her being so shut down and not attracted, but he doesn't know how to handle her at all. He's doing everything totally wrong.

I've been meaning to mention something about this - David's talking heads seem to at times bear no resemblance at all to what's going on before our eyes on the show. It makes me want to ask him if he's in the same relationship as Ashley! My BS meter is tripped with this because who knows how production is manipulating the talking heads to make him look more positive than he is at this point? Like when were those filmed? I noticed in this episode that the clips in which David made the most positive comments looked older than the ones where he acts a little more perturbed. He is sitting in a place wearing the same clothes as in the TH's several weeks ago. I can't believe that David would be glowing about how she's his wife and how invested he is in making the relationship work at this point. He would have to have had a lobotomy to ignore what's going on. I am almost mad at the show for making him look like an idiot who blows hot and cold about her!

lids · February 5, 2016

Why are blacks with the show paired with each other? For 2 different seasons. I think it would be far more interesting to see how different cultures interact in the context of marriage than the manufactured drama that they have been serving us.

It's 2016. I think people can deal with blacks marrying other races. I know some participants specifically asked not to be with one race (Davina), but still this show should do something different than the boring black couples.

I remember in the matchmaking special there was an accomplished black guy, a swimmer, who they wanted to match with someone, but he had a no black women policy and the women of other races presumably had a no black men policy so they said they had no one to place him with. I wonder if black men will be more open to matching with black women in the future if they realize there is no other way to get on the show. And the premise of the show (which is shaky anyway) is that the experts match people with others of similar interests. So why would the black men feel like they couldn't relate to a black women that was their match?

My random thoughts about the episode:

-The voiceover before the episode said that these couples are finally making strides to feel comfortable around each other. I hope the producers don't try to paint a story arc that these couples struggled in the beginning and finally found love. They have not showed us that.

-I noticed they showed Ashley and David flirting more this time. When they were in the kitchen Ashley was flicking water at him while he was cleaning the floor with a towel. Maybe they do this type of stuff all the time and the show withheld it to go with the cold to warm story arc.

-Jenna came in and sat on the couch next to Tres for some time and never sought out Vanessa. Finally Vanessa came over to Jenna and Jenna acted like she couldn't wait to meet her. That was fake. Jenna would have come off as more polite and genuine if she had asked Tres to take her to his wife, the other host. Also when Jenna made the comment that Tres is not used to married life and still needs one day a week to live like his old self, that was completely wrong and self-serving. Jenna seems to not get it that Tres and Vanessa are one. Even when Vanessa encouraged Jenna to go out and mingle with other guests, Jenna seemed to not want to do it. She seemed to want to stick close to Tres and every scene we saw of her she was staring at Tres like she wanted his attention. Does anybody remember that old Coupling episode where Susan says that when your man friend gets a new girlfriend you always have to overnice the new girlfriend or you look like a bitter friend. Jenna didn't follow girl code.

-Both Tres and David came off as way more insincere than I ever thought they were in this episode. The fact that David could come into the room and spout that long monologue about it being their anniversary, when he knew he had just asked for a woman's number the night before, leads me to believe he can be two-faced and insincere and he has no moral issue with it. Not that Ashley is interested, but if she was, how would she know when he was being real in the future? David always does that, "Aw shucks, I just love my wife" which we all thought was weird. Now we know he wasn't really like that when he was away from the "experiment." I also remember before the show started, the rumor was that Tres was complaining about Vanessa to his friends when he was out and about in Atlanta. I believe that now since Jenna alluded to it.

cardigirl · February 5, 2016

Vanessa and everybody else in the world have a right to their feelings, what you don't have a right to do is make everybody else responsible for your feelings. Vanessa needs therapy if her issues are that serious. Then the next day Vanessa was upset because of her dog, I think she was still upset with Tres because of Jenna, but when Tres wanted to talk about it, what did Vanessa do? She left. Very mature. The woman needs therapy, marriage is when shit goes down you don't run away, you face your partner and you deal with it.

Letting it eat at her and leaving was a mistake. She did come back, and I think she may have learned from it. We'll see. Hopefully Tres learned something too.

izabella · February 5, 2016

Maybe...

I guess what bothers me most about this entire episode is that everyone seems to think Vanessa had no right to her feelings. If she felt insecure or that she didn't want to trust this "girl" of Tres' that's allowed. Being jealous, insecure, and worried are HER emotions and valid in her eyes. She may have chosen an ineffective way to deal with them by hanging on Tres, and leaving later that night, but she did come back, and she did apologize. And hopefully she and Tres can communicate more about it. I did not here her say, you have to give that "girl" up and never talk to other women again.

I like Tres, he's charming and probably a great salesguy because of it. But charming men can be less than intimate, they can use that charm to put up a wall, use humor to avoid uncomfortable talk. And it can make them less aware of what others might or might not be feeling. So far he seems pretty genuine to us, but if I am 26 and married to him, I might be wondering how sincere he is about the long term.

Vanessa absolutely has a right to her feelings. She doesn't have a right to be rude to guests her husband invited to their party upon meeting them.

As for communication, I see Tres wanting to communicate all the time, especially about problems. He isn't putting up walls or avoiding uncomfortable talks. That is Vanessa who is putting up walls and avoiding uncomfortable talks and walking out on Tres. I'd be far more worried about Vanessa's communication issues than Tres'.

Jora30 · February 5, 2016

-Both Tres and David came off as way more insincere than I ever thought they were in this episode. The fact that David could come into the room and spout that long monologue about it being their anniversary, when he knew he had just asked for a woman's number the night before, leads me to believe he can be two-faced and insincere and he has no moral issue with it. Not that Ashley is interested, but if she was, how would she know when he was being real in the future? David always does that, "Aw shucks, I just love my wife" which we all thought was weird. Now we know he wasn't really like that when he was away from the "experiment." I also remember before the show started, the rumor was that Tres was complaining about Vanessa to his friends when he was out and about in Atlanta. I believe that now since Jenna alluded to it.

I don't know where you're getting this from. All that was said was that he asked a woman to go for a drink with him. This could have been a friend that he already knew. Nothing was said about him going out and trying to pick up a woman. There was also nothing about it being "the night before". We'll have to wait until next week to see what it's actually about.

SnarkKitty · February 5, 2016

-Jenna came in and sat on the couch next to Tres for some time and never sought out Vanessa. Finally Vanessa came over to Jenna and Jenna acted like she couldn't wait to meet her. That was fake. Jenna would have come off as more polite and genuine if she had asked Tres to take her to his wife, the other host. Also when Jenna made the comment that Tres is not used to married life and still needs one day a week to live like his old self, that was completely wrong and self-serving. Jenna seems to not get it that Tres and Vanessa are one. Even when Vanessa encouraged Jenna to go out and mingle with other guests, Jenna seemed to not want to do it. She seemed to want to stick close to Tres and every scene we saw of her she was staring at Tres like she wanted his attention. Does anybody remember that old Coupling episode where Susan says that when your man friend gets a new girlfriend you always have to overnice the new girlfriend or you look like a bitter friend. Jenna didn't follow girl code.

I'm glad this was mentioned because I thought the exact same thing - Jenna came in, and sat right next to Tres, claiming that space. Buddy for years or no, that was a wrong move for a man with a wife, who you don't even know yet. Jenna was supposed to fall back. Not only did she not, she gave off energy like she DGAF about meeting Vanessa, and Vanessa had a similar energy towards her. But Vanessa had title and proximity (to Tres' waist, heh), so Jenna was left looking put out in that meeting.

Neither of them did anything to make the situation better. If I were going to put the onus on either, I'd say Jenna should have extended herself to make her friend's wife more comfortable because she doesn't know Jenna, and she should have been "extra" to make it clear "girl, I don't want your man, we're just buddies." Not give off jealous ex/wannabe vibes like she did.

Jack Sampson · February 5, 2016

Vanessa absolutely has a right to her feelings. She doesn't have a right to be rude to guests her husband invited to their party upon meeting them.

As for communication, I see Tres wanting to communicate all the time, especially about problems. He isn't putting up walls or avoiding uncomfortable talks. That is Vanessa who is putting up walls and avoiding uncomfortable talks and walking out on Tres. I'd be far more worried about Vanessa's communication issues than Tres'.

Most of us would say that not acting on every fleeting emotion is having self-control and tact. Vanessa is one of those people who think that having emotions and not acting on them is not being "true to herself" or some such nonsense.

We've seen her act a little crazy several times now and it's going to lead to a bad end.

She's entitled to whatever feels jump into her head, but she's responsible for her subsequent actions. Having feels is no excuse for bad behavior - and walking out on your husband is bad behavior. I feel like slapping the hell out of my employees every day but I don't do it, am I not being true to myself? Probably, but I'm not looking like a crazy person on national TV either.

okerry · February 5, 2016

I'm worried Neil will stay with Sam even if she treats him badly.

He admires his grandmother's arranged marriage and how they had to work through difficult times. Neil may believe that he and Sam are just having difficulties and that he needs to stay and work through them. After all, his grandmother and grandfather worked through their difficulties and ended up having a lifelong happy marriage.

Honestly, my only hope for Neil is that his family lets him know what he's putting up with is not normal. Otherwise I truly believe he'll stay through thick and thin at any personal cost. (It may even be an ingrained "honor" thing, although there hasn't been any mention of that.)

I'd never wish divorce on anyone but Neil deserves so much better.

I so agree with this. If these poser experts were worth their salt, they'd tell Neil exactly the same thing. People like Sam never get any better. They only get worse. And so will his life.

Maybe so, but Tres should take some responsibility for his actions and it's pretty thoughtless

to tell your new wife that " your girl" is coming to the party. Get a clue, Tres. Take some cues from how your WIFE is behaving and reassure her.

And yes, Vanessa does deserve a guy who would try to understand, while she works to be more secure, just as she apologized to him for leaving rather than working it out.

Absolutely. Being married - no longer how long you've been married - means putting your spouse first. Period. If you're willing to throw your wife/husband under the bus for somebody else, and then tell said spouse that they should just not be so sensitive and it's their problem if they feel hurt, you are not ready to be married.

Edited February 5, 2016 by okerry

Snarklepuss · February 5, 2016

Tres is sort of the new Sean. The darling of the Production team that is getting the good edit. Is fake and says fake stuff

Vanessa is Davina, less bitchy but edited as the crazy insecure one. I feel sorry for her because she's probably the only one taking this show seriously.

There are times I've looked at this as one of the possibilities with them. Vanessa may be acting more insecure than she ordinarily would because she's onto something about Tres that the audience has not been privy to and she is too conflicted and still hopeful at this point to be open about it. I wouldn't discount her intuition at this point to be legitimately concerned about him. Given all the speculation here about him not seeming ready to settle down, not that into her, a little lackadaisical in his attitude (despite saying all the right things to the camera) it seems that she may be onto something after all. I'm seeing a pattern on this show now from having watched it for 2 seasons of the talking heads not being anywhere near as representative of what's REALLY going on in the relationships as the non-verbal body language we see on the screen. I think the non-verbal communication is far more telling than anything they say or even DO because it's less possible to fake that on a regular basis.

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