S01.E01: Pilot Part 1

[BkWurm1]

The trouble is, on Arrow, when speaking about Ray, a character once mentioned that he had seen every episode of Doctor Who (which is actually close to impossible).

 

Maybe Doctor Who in this universe is a show about an actual doctor and not a time traveling alien. Scary. 

I'm pretty sure I've seen every AVAILABLE episode of Dr. Who.  Of course I started as a little girl in the 80's that just wanted an excuse to stay up late on the weekends. 

 

They didn't start the bar fight.  The big guy grabbed Sara and said "Maybe you didn't understand my request bitch", it was a pretty obvious threat and Sara responded.

No, right, but I don't think they at all minded.  ;)   Since it's on topic, how is it that big guy decides he's going to drag Sara out to the parking lot when his girlfriend was sitting right there at the bar.  Why wasn't he worried that she (girlfriend)  was going to later that nigth snip off his genitalia for hitting on leather clad blonds RIGHT in front of her? 

 

No but I was expecting cheese and thankfully, I got some!

 

Mmmm.  Cheese.

So far they've mostly shown two main "abilities."  They can sprout wings to fly and they have at least some memories of their past lives, Hawkboy remembers more than Hawkwoman.  Figure that they're both probably stronger than they look when they "manifest."  I suspect that we'll see them do stuff like grab somebody, fly up fairly high and the drop his ass.

You forgot the third, magically switch from their street clothes to their leather battle gear at will.  Or do we call that a continuity problem? 

 

The Hawks fighting was an odd way to settle the matter but I think they were trying to say their abilities and strength were on par with each other by them agreeing to let whoever won the battle decide. Kendra didn't seem intimidated by the challenge but as pointed out earlier, she lacks experience. 

Oh and the Hawks weren't in North Carolina.  They were in St. Roch, an area in New Orleans which I believe actually was one of the more liberal cities of that era. (Well, compared to what existed in that day.) 

Edited January 25, 2016 by BkWurm1

[johntfs]

 

Oh and the Hawks weren't in North Carolina.  They were in St. Roch, an area in New Orleans which I believe actually was one of the more liberal cities of that era. (Well, compared to what existed in that day.)

 

They were in St. Roch in this episode and incarnation.  When Prof. Broadbent was a child, though, they were in "a fleabag motel in North Carolina" when Savage tracked them down and murdered them.  That all said, they weren't necessarily living in North Carolina but were perhaps traveling through there on the way to some hopefully safer place.

[CletusMusashi]

I don't understand what the Time Masters or whatever they're called gain by deciding to stay neutral.

Do they seriously believe that a dictator who controls the entire planet isn't going to just help himself to their technology?

[Sakura12]

The Hawks were on the run from Savage, they probably just needed a place to rest and they happened to be in North Carolina. I could also buy that someone at the motel saw them and told Savage where they were to get rid of them. That's why they got murdered. They honestly don't strike me as being too bright, but that could just be the actors that play them not being very good. 

 

As for the Time Masters, it seems like every omnipresent group seems to be full of a-holes that only help when they feel like it Or who knows maybe they are working with Vandal Savage. 

[diebartdie]

Hawkboy also wields a sweet battle mace.

[nksarmi]

Well to be perfectly honest, I didn't get the impression that the professor was both Hawk's son.  If I recall correctly, he only identified Hawkgirl as having the same last name as he did and he only called her mother.

 

Since we know that they have to find each other in every reincarnation and that Hawkgirl doesn't have her memories, I think it's possible that she married a nice young black man who went off to war in WW2 after he fathered the professor and then widowed her.  After that, Hawkman finds her and they begin their life on the run from Vandall Savage.

 

I need to pay closer attention when I rewatch it this week, but yeah, I really think he was her son only.

 

I do realize of course that at some they were living as a mixed family in post-WWII America and that was unusual (though you did see an up tick of that among GIs after the war), but if I'm right and Hawkman wasn't the boy's father - then they might not have been living like that for very long.

 

Edited January 25, 2016 by nksarmi

[KirkB]

I don't understand what the Time Masters or whatever they're called gain by deciding to stay neutral.

Do they seriously believe that a dictator who controls the entire planet isn't going to just help himself to their technology?

 

 

I don't think the Time Masters are from Earth or based there. They are probably somewhere off in time. So there probably isn't any way for Savage to get their tech unless, ironically, he kills Rip and his team and helps himself to the Waverider.

[kieyra]

I think the best word for this show is uneven.  Cold, Heatwave, and Sara are pretty awesome together.  Jax and the Hawks are the worst of the bunch.  Actually, Hawkbro needs to go stat, but at the very least the Hawks need to be separated.  And pilots being pilots, some of the exposition dialogue was absolutely cringeworthy.

 

I don't have any problem with Dr. Stein drugging Jax.  Dude's an amoral jackass and that is A-okay.

 

I'm glad they didn't show Laurel defeat Sara in their sparring match.  That's something I was a little worried about seeing the trailers.

 

And damn, that bar fight was pretty awesome.

 

Arrow/Flash viewer with no comic background knowledge here. Cannot stand the Hawk persons, especially Hawkbro. This mythos is not translating well to television for me, and that's after five or six combined seasons of Arrow/Flash breaking down my comic-book-character suspension of disbelief problems. The wings, the endless repetition of their resurrection vicious-cycle (I get it, I get it, I GET IT), Hawkbro's smirk, all the shaky acting, and an arch-nemesis/backstory I'm having difficulty caring about because it seems intrinsically cartoonish. I wish these two were not part of the team. Maybe they can defeat Vandal Savage and go do something else?

 

Pretty much liking everyone else. 

[Moya the Leviathan]

 

2. I don't know about North Carolina, but Loving vs Virginia was won in 1967 and they weren't killed.  I think that if they had lived in one of the more progressive (larger and younger population), they might have gotten death threats, but the KKK would leave them alone.  I didn't live in the area at the time, so I can't be sure, though.

 

 

Well to be perfectly honest, I didn't get the impression that the professor was both Hawk's son.  If I recall correctly, he only identified Hawkgirl as having the same last name as he did and he only called her mother.

 

Since we know that they have to find each other in every reincarnation and that Hawkgirl doesn't have her memories, I think it's possible that she married a nice young black man who went off to war in WW2 after he fathered the professor and then widowed her.  After that, Hawkman finds her and they begin their life on the run from Vandall Savage.

 

I need to pay closer attention when I rewatch it this week, but yeah, I really think he was her son only.

 

I do realize of course that at some they were living as a mixed family in post-WWII America and that was unusual (though you did see an up tick of that among GIs after the war), but if I'm right and Hawkman wasn't the boy's father - then they might not have been living like that for very long.

Realizing at the outset that Math and History are going to be horribly mangled and disfigured by LoT TPTB, Prof. Boardman appears to be in his mid-50s in 1975 which would put his DOB somewhere around 1918-1922.  He would have been old enough to serve in WWII in a segregated unit, although he may also have been pursuing his college education and/or working on the "homefront." The Professor was likely in his late 40s at the time of Loving v. Virginia and his parents dead well over 35 years.  

[CletusMusashi]

Chick Hawk can stay. I agree with the mythos not translating well, but damn she's pretty.

And that cast is way too big for White Canary to balance out all the sausage by herself.

We need more women on that show, stat!

[nksarmi]

Realizing at the outset that Math and History are going to be horribly mangled and disfigured by LoT TPTB, Prof. Boardman appears to be in his mid-50s in 1975 which would put his DOB somewhere around 1918-1922.  He would have been old enough to serve in WWII in a segregated unit, although he may also have been pursuing his college education and/or working on the "homefront." The Professor was likely in his late 40s at the time of Loving v. Virginia and his parents dead well over 35 years.  

 

See I thought I was missing something.  Ok let's say he was mid-50s in 1975 - then let's go with born in 1920.  I think he said they died in North Carolina when he was about 10.  So that would be 1930.  He must have said WW1 when I heard WWII.  So I think that eliminates my theory that his dad died in war, but I still think Hawkgirl could have been a young widow.  Perhaps she was married when Hawkman showed up and her powers came to her, then Savage showed up and the husband died as the Hawks and baby escaped?  I can go with that. I just really don't think Hawkman was his dad.

Edited January 25, 2016 by nksarmi

[Sakura12]

I'm wondering why that guy picked a fight with Sara in the first place, did we miss a scene? She was just dancing by herself and he walked over and threatened her. She had every right to kick his ass. 

[GreatAtBoats]

See I thought I was missing something. Ok let's say he was mid-50s in 1975 - then let's go with born in 1920. I think he said they died in North Carolina when he was about 10. So that would be 1930. He must have said WW1 when I heard WWII. So I think that eliminates my theory that his dad died in war, but I still think Hawkgirl could have been a young widow. Perhaps she was married when Hawkman showed up and her powers came to her, then Savage showed up and the husband died as the Hawks and baby escaped? I can go with that. I just really don't think Hawkman was his dad.

Boardman did say WWI, and he appears to be Hawkman's son, as it was Falk Hentschel in the photograph, and Carter said "our" son at one point.

[Starfish35]

I'm wondering why that guy picked a fight with Sara in the first place, did we miss a scene? She was just dancing by herself and he walked over and threatened her.

I wondered that myself.

[scarynikki12]

He hit on her almost as soon as she started dancing.  Her response that he wasn't her type but his girlfriend was prompted to try and manhandle her.

[kieyra]

I'm wondering why that guy picked a fight with Sara in the first place, did we miss a scene? She was just dancing by herself and he walked over and threatened her. She had every right to kick his ass.

They did a very small amount of sexual harassment hand-waving before he became inexplicably violent about it. (I mean, given that it was just a little dance bar. It wasn't like dumbass Sookie Stackhouse charging into a werewolf bar and insulting everyone.)

[jhlipton]

They were in St. Roch, an area in New Orleans which I believe actually was one of the more liberal cities of that era. (Well, compared to what existed in that day.) 

 

New Orleans in pretty much any day was more liberal than even most of the North.  Blacks were treated as equals and, as I recall, mixed marriages (especially WMBW) may have been  rare but did exist.

We need more women on that show, stat!

 

Add "pretty".  I prefer the darker-hued ladies myself, but anyone along the lines of the two they have will be fine.  :D

[KirkB]

At least now, having seen the pilot, I understand why Hunter recruited the Hawks. When they were first talking about it I didn't get why he would want to bring along the two people Savage explicitly needs to kill to maintain his immortality, since that would essentially be serving them up on a silver platter (it still is but I digress). Now we know one of them has to be the one kill Savage or else he'll just come back. But beyond their not being too important to the timeline, I wonder why he chose the ones he did. Cold and Heat are untrustworthy at best, threats themselves at worst. Stein and Jax barely get along, and does he really need two people who can throw fire(I know comic Firestorm can do more than that but so far it's all we've seen the TV version do)? Atom and Sara I kind of get, for infiltration and fighting. I'm just wondering, he has all of time and space to choose from and he picks eight people from the same point in the 21st century?

[johntfs]

I actually get Heat and Cold better than some of the others.  Rip isn't interested in capturing Savage or "bringing him to justice."  He wants to wipe Savage out, probably in a very painful way.  He knows he's going to have to deal with innocent (or at least ignorant) people that are Savage's pawns, so he wants people willing to do questionable/criminal things.

 

 

I'm just wondering, he has all of time and space to choose from and he picks eight people from the same point in the 21st century?

The reality reason is that we all "know" these characters from Arrow and The Flash.  Figure the "in-show" reason is something like "after 2016, all roads lead to Savage's reign so 2016 is the last place Rip can get his teammates without risking disruption to history that he doesn't want to disrupt."

Edited January 26, 2016 by johntfs

[Sakura12]

For me it is more why did he bring the good guys (Ray, Stein and Jax) on his revenge mission?

 

If he wants to end Savage then he brought the two that need to kill him to stop him and the other three (Sara, Cold and Heatwave) will be willing to kill, maim and rob to get to him. 

[Kromm]

Brandon Routh still can't act.  He's always the worst actor in anything he's in, and that's still true here.

[Kromm]

I don't understand what the Time Masters or whatever they're called gain by deciding to stay neutral.

Do they seriously believe that a dictator who controls the entire planet isn't going to just help himself to their technology?

 

 

As for the Time Masters, it seems like every omnipresent group seems to be full of a-holes that only help when they feel like it Or who knows maybe they are working with Vandal Savage. 

My read on this is that a group like the Time Masters should probably already be extra-planetary, or perhaps they simply live out of time in some neutral time and place where they don't affect the rest of history, so perhaps they don't feel that bonded to the time when Savage has conquered Earth. Of course we have to then explain how and why Hunter was allowed to have a family there (even if it was discouraged). I'm sure it can be fan-wanked--perhaps the Time Masters are from all over time but Hunter himself originated from that time period and so was allowed to live out his normal life there when he wasn't on time missions--while the rest of the Time Masters also could do so in their own time periods, but none of them was as directly affected, so they could take that standpoint.

[Danny Franks]

This show has some spectacularly tragic acting. The kid playing half of Firestorm is appalling, the other two guys from the Flash would be rejected from the 1960s Batman TV series for being too broad and cheesy, and the two Hawks are as stiff as boards. This is some big time duff casting. They all make Brandon Routh look nuanced, for crying out loud!

 

But I like Caity Lotz a lot, and the guy playing Rip Hunter (who, I gather, was in Doctor Who some time after Catherine Tate's existence demand I stop watching it) was pretty decent. Those two might keep me interested for a bit. Also, damn but Caity Lotz looks good in that outfit.

 

The idea for the show itself has more holes in it than a swiss cheese, but it's the sort of nonsense that I was laughing good naturedly at. But it started off more like a cheap Doctor Who parody than anything else, and then turned into a half baked Dirty Dozen (well, two thirds baked I guess, because there are eight of them).

 

The budget can't support the VFX they're trying to use and the bad guys look like Power Rangers rejects. But then, so do the Hawks. Way too much cheap plastic. It's less bland than The Flash and less infuriatingly stupid than Arrow. I might watch it again, depends on whether I remember it's on. But I'd be far more interested in a Sara Lance show, thank you very much.

 

Also, it's nice to see that Laurel is still the worst. The absolute worst.

[KirkB]

Because of it's very nature LoT is going to get compared, fairly or not, to Dr. Who, especially with Arthur Darvill involved. The Time Masters don't do them any favors in that regard either. Not that Dr. Who was the first or only sci fi show to center around time travel. The show runners have two choices. Either ignore the outcries and try to do their own thing or embrace the similarities. They seem to be going for the latter, which is easier and probably the better move. So to a certain extent LoT is going to be Dr. Who with superheroes, and as long as it's fun I'm okay with that.

 

I think Sara and the rogues are the best things about the show. And I agree the three of them be willing to kill (Cold and Heat more so but still) is probably the main reason Rip picked them. When you're fighting a vicious thug like Savage you need vicious people. He'd probably want the Green Arrow if Oliver wasn't presumably so important to the time line. I don't know Ray's view on killing but I think Stein would okay with it for someone like Savage. Jax, I have no idea. But since it's going to take the Hawks to kill him once and for all they better be on board.

 

I stared at the picture of Sara for way longer than I probably should have. I actually kind of like the design, though I'm unsure about the bare arms. I agree it's not even remotely white though. Gray maybe, or dull silver. Though for anyone who doesn't like it, depending on your opinions of the characters you can blame Laurel and/or Cisco.

Edited January 26, 2016 by KirkB

[Sakura12]

The bare arms was a CL request, she said it was hard to move in the small and tight leather jacket they gave her. Since she does her own fighting stunts I think she should have say. 

[KirkB]

Oh, well that makes sense. Given the way she has to move, I can see why bare arms would be easier for her. Technically it makes Sara more vulnerable but she's not wearing armor anyway. She's all about not getting hit, or taking them out before they can hit her. 

[BkWurm1]

For me it is more why did he bring the good guys (Ray, Stein and Jax) on his revenge mission?

 

If he wants to end Savage then he brought the two that need to kill him to stop him and the other three (Sara, Cold and Heatwave) will be willing to kill, maim and rob to get to him. 

I imagine if all he had were criminals he'd be worried about them joining Vandal Savage, lol. 

I actually kind of like the design, though I'm unsure about the bare arms. I agree it's not even remotely white though. Gray maybe, or dull silver.

 

Waaaaaaay back before they even announced who Sara was playing this got discussed.  Basically the consensus was an all white outfit would be a bad idea for someone that might want to run around in the shadows but a couple of us suggested that they could go a light grey and still make the contrast between Laurel's BC costume and a "white" Canary costume for Sara.  Personally I was tickled to see the show runners agreed with me, lol. 

 

Because of it's very nature LoT is going to get compared, fairly or not, to Dr. Who, especially with Arthur Darvill involved. The Time Masters don't do them any favors in that regard either. Not that Dr. Who was the first or only sci fi show to center around time travel. The show runners have two choices. Either ignore the outcries and try to do their own thing or embrace the similarities. They seem to be going for the latter, which is easier and probably the better move. So to a certain extent LoT is going to be Dr. Who with superheroes, and as long as it's fun I'm okay with that.

 

It helps the shows credibility that Rip Hunter predated Dr. Who.  Not a lot but it's what kept me from rolling my eyes at the blatant rip offs.  I still see it but accept that everyone was "borrowing" from everyone already so have at it.  ;)

[TheGourmez]

Notably, the Kingsguard in Game of Thrones don't have all-white armor onscreen either, though they did in the books -- it doesn't film well. Off-white works better.

[Delphi]

It helps the shows credibility that Rip Hunter predated Dr. Who. Not a lot but it's what kept me from rolling my eyes at the blatant rip offs. I still see it but accept that everyone was "borrowing" from everyone already so have at it. ;)

I guess it sort of helps but only a bit. Because when Rip showed up there wasn't a bunch of rules of time to accompany him. He was time traveler. The end. Doctor Who definitely did a lot of the work establishing Fixed Points in Time, alterations to the time line and the like.

[Sakura12]

The LoT repeat got a 0.6 with 1.70 million viewers. That's pretty good for a re-airing.

[tarotx]

I didn't even know it was re-airing.

Edited January 27, 2016 by tarotx

[Sakura12]

It was on after the Flash. Agent Carter was on so that won out for me. 

[jwsel]

My read on this is that a group like the Time Masters should probably already be extra-planetary, or perhaps they simply live out of time in some neutral time and place where they don't affect the rest of history, so perhaps they don't feel that bonded to the time when Savage has conquered Earth. Of course we have to then explain how and why Hunter was allowed to have a family there (even if it was discouraged). I'm sure it can be fan-wanked--perhaps the Time Masters are from all over time but Hunter himself originated from that time period and so was allowed to live out his normal life there when he wasn't on time missions--while the rest of the Time Masters also could do so in their own time periods, but none of them was as directly affected, so they could take that standpoint.

 

I was thinking that Rip picked may have people who were about to die.  Weren't most in life-or-death situations?  Cold and Heat were running from the cops, Firestorm was in firing flames in a chemical factor, Atom was on a mission, Sara was getting into a fight, (can't remember the deal with the Hawks).  Granted, it would be coincidence if they all were about to die at the same time, but given the time travel element, maybe they were at different points in 2016 or thereabouts.  That would explain why they didn't make a blip in the historical timeline.

[Sakura12]

Sara was just brought back to life, I doubt she was going to die again so soon. I could see Sara just disappearing into her loner life, therefore not doing anything that would stand out in history. 

[Kromm]

My read on this is that a group like the Time Masters should probably already be extra-planetary, or perhaps they simply live out of time in some neutral time and place where they don't affect the rest of history, so perhaps they don't feel that bonded to the time when Savage has conquered Earth. Of course we have to then explain how and why Hunter was allowed to have a family there (even if it was discouraged). I'm sure it can be fan-wanked--perhaps the Time Masters are from all over time but Hunter himself originated from that time period and so was allowed to live out his normal life there when he wasn't on time missions--while the rest of the Time Masters also could do so in their own time periods, but none of them was as directly affected, so they could take that standpoint.

 

I was thinking that Rip picked may have people who were about to die.  Weren't most in life-or-death situations?  Cold and Heat were running from the cops, Firestorm was in firing flames in a chemical factor, Atom was on a mission, Sara was getting into a fight, (can't remember the deal with the Hawks).  Granted, it would be coincidence if they all were about to die at the same time, but given the time travel element, maybe they were at different points in 2016 or thereabouts.  That would explain why they didn't make a blip in the historical timeline.

I'm a bit confused here. My post was specifically about the issue of why The Time Masters would have the position they do about Savage conquering the Earth vs. Rip's own position. That doesn't have much to do with why Hunter picked the people he did for his team.

[rue721]

I enjoyed it!

 

Ray Palmer was better in this than he's ever been before. I liked how he was so upbeat and curious about everything, even though he also clearly had a wounded ego and was pretty alienated.

 

The Hawks weren't great, but I thought Kendra redeemed herself somewhat with her son. I really liked him -- too bad he died. It would be fun if the gang were made up of people from different times, instead of everyone coming from 2016. A prof from the 70s would have been an interesting addition!

 

I loved Cold and Heat Wave. As usual. They're pretty much why I bothered to watch the pilot in the first place, and I wasn't disappointed. 

 

Sara was fun. I agree with people saying she didn't really seem like herself. But I can handwave that away as being because of the Lazarus Pits, and she wasn't *so* different that it was disorienting. She's always likable. And Caity is a fantastic stunt fighter!

 

Firestorm was my least favorite, and other people have covered why pretty well already.

 

If the Rogues and Sara were to stay on the ship, where did they get money to go to the bar? Most likely their money is current, especially the paper money. And I haven't seen a pre-1990's coin in a while. What are the chances their money all had 1975 and earlier years on them?

 

The Rogues are thieves, so I figured they never intended to pay. Maybe they stole some money, but I think they probably were planning to just run up a tab and then dip out.

 

Sara used to be a bartender, so she's less likely to skip out on a tab. :P But she was pretty likely to get her drinks on the house anyway, and I doubt she even thought about it.

 

I think Sara just had more of fuck it attitude. She was dead and missed a whole year of her life. She was brought back and is trying to live again. 

 

I also think she just adapts to any situation. They went back in time to the 70's why not go out and party.  

 

I agree. I didn't think they needed more of an explanation for why she wanted to go out and grab a drink in the 70s. Hitting up a dive bar is a pretty ordinary thing to do, so I didn't think twice about it.

 

She dated Oliver before and after Nyssa, so I don't think we can rule out a Sara/Cold pairing if the writers decide to go down the route of more than friends.

 

Thinking back on Oliver and Nyssa, I don't think that Cold is really Sara's type. Both Oliver and Nyssa are "strong, silent types," whereas Cold is a ham.

 

That said, I can see why Cold would like Sara. She's tough, she's quick-witted, she's lively...she seems like someone he'd get along with well.

 

I think they'd be good as buddies, in any case. I don't really care whether they get together or not.

 

I was thinking that Rip picked may have people who were about to die.  Weren't most in life-or-death situations?

 

That's a great theory!

[KirkB]

Sara was drinking in a bar in Tibet, and considering how easily she took down the guy twice her size I don't think she was in any real danger.

 

Firestorm had been flying around a refinery or whatever it was, but they finished that and then split so they could argue, which I don't think either of them would have done if they were in imminent danger.

 

Ray had been fighting for his life but he wasn't by the time Rip finished clapping and zapped him.

 

The Hawks had apparently just finished saved some woman's life and were arguing in the middle of yet another empty street when Rip showed up.

 

Now Cold and Heat were being chased by the cops, and knowing those two had they been cornered they would have gone down fighting, but they seemed to be pretty much in the clear when Rip got in their way.

 

So while the "yanking them out moments before their death" is a good theory and would make sense, it doesn't really apply here.

Edited January 29, 2016 by KirkB

[Jenniferbug]

I realize I'm ridiculously late to this show, but Netflix recommended it and I thought I'd give it a shot since I work from home and am always looking for good background noise. The pilot confused me so I came here, and am finding out that most of these characters appeared on Arrow or The Flash. What I'm wondering is- what's the best order to watch those in? Should I watch all 4 seasons of Arrow and then move onto Flash, or do seasons of the shows need to alternate for the chronology to make sense? Thanks!

[tarotx]

3 hours ago, Jenniferbug said:

I realize I'm ridiculously late to this show, but Netflix recommended it and I thought I'd give it a shot since I work from home and am always looking for good background noise. The pilot confused me so I came here, and am finding out that most of these characters appeared on Arrow or The Flash. What I'm wondering is- what's the best order to watch those in? Should I watch all 4 seasons of Arrow and then move onto Flash, or do seasons of the shows need to alternate for the chronology to make sense? Thanks!

 

 

I don't think you need to watch Arrow season 1 but it is good especially the later half. Sara is a huge part of Arrow season 2. And Ray is a decent part of season 3. And then the first 8 episodes of Arrow Season 4 for both Sara, Ray and I guess the Hawks in the Crossover. Flash is a bit tricker because the LOT people development are less important over there. Season 1 of Flash is really good though. And then the season 2 Cold episodes were nice. Hawkgirl was on Flash season 2 and when Jax joined Firestorm also.

Edited November 8, 2016 by tarotx

[Jenniferbug]

Thanks tarotx! That gives me a starting point :-)

[Sakura12]

Guys, Kendra's just a barista. I don't know if you remembered that. 

Still love Sara throwing a shot glass at the guy's head and when she used to bar fight throughout history. Martin roofied Jax, Rip roofied all of them then brought them to a roof. Lol. Ack Laurel is this in the episode, I forget about that. For some reason I thought that scene happened on Arrow. I'm still wondering how Cisco made a suit for Sara when he's never seen her before. I can't really see Laurel caring enough to know her sister's sizes. 

Sara being accepted by the Rogues, cause she likes drinking and fighting. I loved seeing Leonard crushing on Sara again. I miss Captain Canary, it was one of the better things in Season 1. 

Hawkman was just as annoying as I remembered him being. The Arrowverse really loves revealing secret children. Also that guy can't be their only kid, they've been alive for 4000 years. Another thing they liked to mention as much as being a barista. They really should've kept Vandal Savage as an immortal caveman, that would've been much more interesting. He still could've been in love with Kendra when he met her in Egypt. 

I will always love seeing Rip get punched in the face when he deserves it. I felt for them when they found out they were not only not heroes, they were insignificant to the timeline. I'm glad that's changed. 

[Featherhat]

Aw, I do miss Rip, even completely disckish, completely lying Rip (which is most Rips). I liked Rip recruiting the group by knocking them out and kidnapping (Wally you got lucky), but first time around I was really annoyed Ray got Oliver to send him off and Sara only got Laurel not Oliver or Quentin. Because that sparing and "Cisco made you a White Canary Outfit" scene never made any sense to me. But at least they were getting on for once the last time they were together before Sara died. I did like Sara being collected out of a bar in Tibet (close to NP?) having saved a woman. Rip's "I'm from East London!" terrible thankfully brief attempt at an accent. 

Stein kidnapping Jax has a lot more meaning to it now if you think Martin knew he was going to travel on the Waverider and that Jax forgave him and tried to do similar things for him. Him not remembering Ray from MIT is still funny and I remember it was one of the first times I felt sorry for Ray after S3. "Okay but I'd be lying" when asked about his suit when running back to the ship. And "Actually it's Dr. Palmer" Aww, Early Legends Ray. 

I think the "secret kid" plot was the only storyline I really liked for the Hawks, the actor did really well. The rest of the ep did nothing to change the unfavourable opinion of them and Vandal Savage I'd had since that year's crossover.

Aww to the team deciding to change their destinies and do the mission anyway despite Rip's lying and manipulating. Well all of them have done so far.  

ETA to add I do miss Snart from the show a lot. I liked Leo's brief eps but OG Snart was great. And him and Sara bonding and the beginning of his crush on her. Not that it's hard to fall at least half in love with Sara. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by Featherhat

[scarynikki12]

On 10/23/2019 at 7:59 PM, Sakura12 said:

I'm still wondering how Cisco made a suit for Sara when he's never seen her before. I can't really see Laurel caring enough to know her sister's sizes

Despite what the shows have claimed I never bought the idea that Sara and Laurel ever truly liked or loved each other. I think they made an effort for Dinah’s and Quentin’s sake, and they never wanted the other dead, but the way they treated each other didn’t support genuine caring. So, watching their scene again after so long has sparked a new theory on Laurel having Cisco make Sara a new suit. I think she wanted Sara gone and her original plan was to convince her to move away to be a vigilante elsewhere. She had that suit and name ready to go when the opportunity presented itself. Yes, yes this was a shortcut to setting up the White Canary and that happens in every pilot but it does fit what we know and saw of their relationship on Arrow. 

I do love seeing Snart again and especially those heart eyes he was throwing Sara’s way from jump. 

This just makes me miss Kendra though not Carter. They should have waited on him until they cast someone who could act and generate chemistry with Ciara. I loved how fierce she was defending her former life son on the Waverider. 

They should have just done Stein’s speech about not having many adventures left at the beginning to convince Jax to go rather than the drugging and abduction. I do still laugh at Mick asking for a dose. 

It’s funny that I was mostly indifferent or annoyed by Ray’s “I wanna be a Hero!” at the beginning and now I adore him. 

[Starfish35]

And here we go!  Honestly, this wasn’t as bad as I remembered, or maybe the nostalgia is giving me rose-colored glasses.   So good to see all the characters that are no longer on the team; Rip, Stein and Jax, Snart, even Kendra.  I always liked Kendra actually.  It’s just that she was unfortunate enough to be dragged down by a storyline involving two of the worst characters.  

No amount of rose-colored glasses can improve Savage; he’s still the worst.  The casting was so so bad for this, not to mention the changes they made to his comics storyline.  I love the animated series’ Vandal Savage, but this guy is a joke.  

Ah the days when we actually had a special effects budget, and the characters actually could use their powers.  Also, yay for Sara kicking ass in some impressive fight scenes, something else we’ve been missing lately.  The bar fight scene was always one of my favorites.  I still hate this ugly costume though.  Not a huge fan of the White Canary costume in any of its versions, but our current version is by far the best (and is actually white, unlike this ugly cement grey looking thing).

On 10/25/2019 at 8:06 PM, scarynikki12 said:

It’s funny that I was mostly indifferent or annoyed by Ray’s “I wanna be a Hero!” at the beginning and now I adore him. 

Same here.  Ray wasn’t my favorite character, so I wasn’t sympathetic at all.  Now I can see how a lot of what’s going on with him here has to do with his death, and the feeling he got that he didn’t matter to anyone.  

ETA:  Forgot to mention....first use of “Haircut”. 😄

Edited October 27, 2019 by Starfish35