S11.E10: The Devil In The Details

[DittyDotDot]

She zapped him back to the hotdog stand before the smitting, so he was near Baby and far from her. 

 

Fair enough--I didn't remember him being zapped back to the hot dog stand, but will take your word for it. But now I'm thinking of how did Dean know where smiting-ground-zero was. It's not like there were any signs at parts unknown.

 

This is what happens when the show doesn't engage me, I start musing about things that really don't matter, nor do I actually care about.

Edited January 24, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[SueB]

True (about where it was).

And with that big of a smiling, it would have been picked up on US satellites and the area crawling with people.

Superman's glasses issue I think.

[Omegamom]

Yeah, I wanted to know how Dean knew where the Smiting Ground was. Nothing exactly wildly memorable about it, aside from the fact that it made me vaguely miss Alaska. ;-)

Anyway, she zaps him out, he's back with Baby, he goes driving there and then gets hit with smiting sickness? Because he's getting so close to ground zero? After all, he wasn't there when the smiting went down.

[catrox14]

My only fanwank is that Dean's connection to Amara was drawing him back to the smiting spot....for....reasons. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by catrox14

[Myrelle]

I wouldn`t rewatch this or even pieces of it if someone paid me money to. Best thing I can do is probably erasing it from my mind,

 

Yeah, every Deanfan who I know and trust told me to skip this one to spare my blood pressure-which I did, except I watched the scene of Dean preparing to descend to Hell and his interaction with Crowley because of a gif I saw. Once again, the only one who remembers that Dean went to hell is Jensen. Loved him so stoically bracing himself in preparation. Unfortunately, all it makes me feel, yet again, is that JA has long out grown this show and these writers, especially as they don't seem that interested in writing for him to me.

 

Maybe this week's episode will be better, but I confess that I am now losing hope that this season will offer anything good for this Deanfan. It now feels like an amalgamation of S5 AND S8 and that all I have to look forward to is Dean somehow being kicked out of the myth-arc again-which I refuse to watch again. Very depressing. :-(

[MysteryGuest]

I've been thinking of how they handled Dean's return trip to hell, and I was trying to remember how they handled it when Sam went back to hell to free Bobby during the trials.  I just watched a few scenes from that episode, and they didn't really make a big deal about Sam going back, either.  There wasn't really any mention about how it was going to affect him, in fact, they didn't even mention it.  Dean was pushing to go along because of Bobby being trapped there, but neither brother really discussed their earlier experiences in hell.  Now this could just be a case of bad writing (or too many writers who don't pay attention to canon), or they figure the boys have both died so many times, been to hell and back, spent time in purgatory, and cruised around heaven, that a trip back to hell isn't as big a deal as we think it is.  Dean certainly didn't look happy to be going back, but that probably had more to do with the fact that Sam was in the cage with Lucifer than anything else.

[catrox14]

Dean certainly didn't look happy to be going back, but that probably had more to do with the fact that Sam was in the cage with Lucifer than anything else.

 

 

 

It's only through Jensen's acting in this episode that we were reminded of it.   I thought Jensen played that he was scared for Sam and had the deepest DREAD of going back to the place that he'd still be in if not for Castiel and the other angels. And as wonderful as the acting was it's not enough because not everyone interpreted his reactions as being about anything other than fear and worry for Sam.  It absolutely needed to be addressed textually on screen beyond interpreting Jensen's wonderful acting.

 

For me, the difference is that before Sam went through that backdoor to Hell, we'd already spent basically the equivalent of like 2 seasons dealing with Sam's missing soul and his mental state after remembering Hell. The Wall, the Hallucifinations. The constant "What's Wrong With Sammy", "What Do We Do about Sammy!"

 

It was addressed textually, repeatedly on-screen by pretty much ERRYONE in the show throughout s6 and s7 i.e. Hallucifer, Dean, Bobby, Death, Cas and Sam himself with how much trauma Sam would experience.  I literally cannot recall  ONE mention of Dean's Hell time post s4. Dean's trauma was very different than Sam's because it was a combination of his own torment dished out by Alistair, Hell's top torturer and what he did to other people. IMO it's certainly worthy of a LEAST a fucking MENTION by SOMEONE when he's going back to that place.

Edited January 26, 2016 by catrox14

[MysteryGuest]

I have to say it really didn't bother me too much.  I don't know whether that's because, as a fan, I know he'd been to hell before and could assume he wouldn't be thrilled about going back.  I don't know that they needed to spell that out for me.  Even when Dean called Cas as he was about to knock on the door, he said "I'm going to hell", not "I'm going back to hell".  Now, obviously, Jensen only says what's written in the script, but I don't know that he needed to make that distinction for it to be meaningful.

 

I know those of us who are Dean fans would like him to have some meatier story lines, but after the past two seasons, I bet that Sam fans are happy to have things shift back a bit.  Sam was pretty much on the sidelines last season.  I do think they flow back and forth fairly evenly, most of the time.

[catrox14]

 

I have to say it really didn't bother me too much.  I don't know whether that's because, as a fan, I know he'd been to hell before and could assume he wouldn't be thrilled about going back.  I don't know that they needed to spell that out for me.  Even when Dean called Cas as he was about to knock on the door, he said "I'm going to hell", not "I'm going back to hell".  Now, obviously, Jensen only says what's written in the script, but I don't know that he needed to make that distinction for it to be meaningful.

 

.

 

 

That's a writing fail in my opinion. Even as a long time fan, it's too important to Dean's history and even Sam's history and the history of the show especially in this arc that brings up the Apocalypse and shows Sam jumping in the pit to right his wrongs for a thing that Dean started. It makes no sense to NOT address it.  

 

What about the new audience? Who just started watching with s8 or more recently. They would never even know it happened. 

 

I can buy that Dean himself might not say anything although he could mumble something to Cas about it...like 'Shit, I have to go back."  But why wouldn't Crowley pick at that thread.  If not him, then certainly Lucifer would launch a barb to fuck with Dean's psyche about torturing other people. To put Dean back on his heels, a chink in Dean's armor. That would be right in Lucifer's wheel house. And it's especially surprising given that Dabb has been around since s4.  Something like 'How's it feel Dean. Anything like you remember" SOMETHING ANYTHING.

 

Yeah sorry but I will be a dog with a bone on this one. It's bullshit on every level.

[MysteryGuest]

Well, unfortunately, I think that writing fails are pretty much a regular thing with this show.  But this is probably a discussion better suited to the Bitterness thread.

[catrox14]

Well, unfortunately, I think that writing fails are pretty much a regular thing with this show.  But this is probably a discussion better suited to the Bitterness thread.

 

The funny thing is they are in some weird way trying to fix the writing fail of s8 ... I guess in this episode....maybe they'll do the same before the end of the show for the writing fails on Dean's history.

[SueB]

Yeah, every Deanfan who I know and trust told me to skip this one to spare my blood pressure-which I did, except I watched the scene of Dean preparing to descend to Hell and his interaction with Crowley because of a gif I saw. Once again, the only one who remembers that Dean went to hell is Jensen. Loved him so stoically bracing himself in preparation. Unfortunately, all it makes me feel, yet again, is that JA has long out grown this show and these writers, especially as they don't seem that interested in writing for him to me.

Maybe this week's episode will be better, but I confess that I am now losing hope that this season will offer anything good for this Deanfan. It now feels like an amalgamation of S5 AND S8 and that all I have to look forward to is Dean somehow being kicked out of the myth-arc again-which I refuse to watch again. Very depressing. :-(

Is it a missed opportunity? Sure. But they didn't have Dean do anything dumb or look stupid. I'm a huge fan of Dean (and of Sam's too, thus bi-bro), and I was delighted with his character this episode. He was smart, funny, and brave. So, I get disappointed and frustrated, but your comment implies the episode was bad for Dean and I just don't feel that vibe (like, at all) when I watched the episode.

And I don't think enjoying this episode makes me less of a Dean-fan.

Edited January 26, 2016 by SueB

[catrox14]

 

And I don't think enjoying this episode makes me less of a Dean-fan.

 

Not trying to speak for Myrelle but I took the comment as being more that OF the Dean-fans Myrelle talked with, not ALL the Dean-fans in the universe.

Edited January 26, 2016 by catrox14

[Omegamom]

I'm afraid that I'm going to have to contest the "didn't look stupid" comment. Both Dean and Cas were incredibly foolish to just waltz up to the temporary cell when it didn't have any wardings, and Lucifer had already zapped Sam into the cell with him. C'mon, boys. Ol' Finger-snapper ain't just gonna stand there and make nice.

[SueB]

Dean made his reasoning clear -- he was simply buying time for Rowena to finish the spell.  It didn't occur to him that Cas would be the one to say yes.  By going in, he DID put himself in harm's way but ultimately the tag-team nearly worked.  Now Cas, OTOH, needs to 'splain himself for saying "yes".  I bet it will be more than "because I felt useless". 

[rue721]

I thought the "I'm going to hell" line was supposed to be a sort of pun or dry joke. For anyone else, "I'm going to hell" would just be an idiom, but Dean means it literally.

 

Every time they've tried to tackle the "tortured in Hell" issue, it's fallen flat imo. They have no idea how to handle it, so they're just going to try and gloss over it. I've made peace with that, tbh.

 

The sole exception to the thing of the show not knowing how to deal with Hell or torture, and thus trying to gloss over it now, is the constant use of creepy/horrifying rape references when talking about Lucifer/Sam's time in the Cage. The show brings that stuff up all the time (including in this episode), and it always works, at least for me. It makes me haaaaaaate Lucifer in a way that I've never hated any other character on the show. Azarel is still the most frightening Big Bad imo, but Lucifer is the most despicable.

[rue721]

Now Cas, OTOH, needs to 'splain himself for saying "yes".  I bet it will be more than "because I felt useless". 

 

My guess is that Cas has some plan to use his disgraced status to cause Lucifer problems. Like maybe he figures that the angels will stick Casifer in Heaven's prison or something, because they're so angry at Cas.This is just him being a martyr again, probably.

 

But why did he think that Rowena was such a gigantic and urgent problem, that he had to bring Lucifer back to earth to stop her? From what I remember, she wasn't really doing anything much, except slowly making up with her son, and failing to get her Mega [super Duper] Coven off the ground.

 

I hope she comes back! She grew on me. And I actually like the Mommy Issues storyline, as ridiculous as it is. (Though to be fair, I'm always a sucker for Mommy Issues storylines). Since she's gotta just be in Hell, and she at least sorta/kinda made up with Crowley, I'm hopeful that he'll just cut a deal with her to help him out in some way, and bring her back to earth in return. He seems to like having her around, anyway.

 

And btw:  catrox, I also thought of you when Lucifer said he was "noodling on it." I've literally never heard anyone else use that phrase, so I'm going to consider it a shout out :)

[Omegamom]

It may be a regional thing? I say I'm "noodling on" something fairly often, and have for years. I just figured it was a Midwesternism.

[catrox14]

hahahah @MickLady and @Rue721 at "noodle on it". I'll take the shout outs where I can get them. LOL

 

I got it from a  former boss of mine who use to say, 'Hey team, we have X problem to fix. I'll give you a few days to noodle on it" .  .  I've said it for years now.  No, I DID NOT WORK FOR LUCIFER. 

[SueB]

rue...you meant Amara, right?  Cas wants Luci to stop Amara.

 

Under the category of "it's the little things", here were some favorite bits:

- Christmas with Rowena & Crowley. Mark Shepard was freaking ADORABLE in that onesie.  And he was so earnest. And it broke my heart when he said "but I've been a good boy!"  And this was all in Rowena's head.

- The voicemails.

- Doc Cas.

- Rowena and Crowley in sync with the tea order

- Dean's steeling himself to re-enter hell

- "Hello, have you met me?" - Dean to Crowley regarding worried about Sam.  To thine own self be true, Dean. Glad to see you say that.

- "Hey" ... Billie, cool as a cucumber when a traumatized Angel pops into her secret clubhouse

- "Not even a little"

- Lucifer's little disco dance -- beating up on Team Free Will IS a party for him, I get why he went for the music

 

I really loved the attention to detail in this one.

[mertensia]

Rewatched and: I don't think the Crowley's dad bit is a retcon. Of course Rowena was going to lie about being seduced by a married lord. It's her personality and people lie about parenthood a lot. "Big grand coven orgy" sounds so much more like a woman who chose pregnancy and is independent than "he said he'd leave her for me".

[rue721]

rue...you meant Amara, right?  Cas wants Luci to stop Amara.

 

OooooOOooOOOooooh. I was thinking that when they were talking about "she," they meant Rowena, because then Lucifer got out and killed Rowena. In hindsight, that was dumb. Sorry. (This will teach me to only half-watch).

 

But how could Lucifer kill Amara? He's just some undisciplined, rogue archangel. And why would he want to kill Amara? Did they explain all that, but I missed it, too?

 

Christmas with Rowena & Crowley. Mark Shepard was freaking ADORABLE in that onesie.  And he was so earnest. And it broke my heart when he said "but I've been a good boy!"  And this was all in Rowena's head.

 

That's a hilarious observation, SueB. I love that either Rowena sees him as an overgrown earnest little boy OR her worst nightmare is that he's an overgrown earnest little boy (or both).

 

Rewatched and: I don't think the Crowley's dad bit is a retcon. Of course Rowena was going to lie about being seduced by a married lord. It's her personality and people lie about parenthood a lot. "Big grand coven orgy" sounds so much more like a woman who chose pregnancy and is independent than "he said he'd leave her for me".

 

Yes, I thought her story was pretty believable. She's always loved status, and I can see her having delusions of "being somebody" until some local lord tossed her away like a piece of garbage. I guess that's also why she found it so delicious to call herself the mother of the king and all that.

 

The only thing that I'm a little bleeeeeeh about is the idea that Crowley is "nobility." Bastard nobility, but still. Can't SOMEBODY on this show be an ordinary person from a line of ordinary, nothing people? If Crowley's aristocrat father comes into the storyline now, I will hurl.

[DittyDotDot]

It may be a regional thing? I say I'm "noodling on" something fairly often, and have for years. I just figured it was a Midwesternism.

 

Yeah, I'm currently living in the mid-West and I've heard this a few times and used it once or twice myself.

[millennium]

Rowena was the only bright spot in the Dimness that is the Heaven/Hell/Crowley/Castiel storyline.    But this is Supernatural.  Can't have beautiful, headstrong women running around loose. 

 

I guess I got spoiled after so many standalone episodes.  Returning to the Crowley and Castiel arc felt like having to go back to school at the end of Christmas break.

 

Castiel's overstayed his welcome by three or four seasons.   The character is stale and predictable and needs to go.   This latest gimmick, putting Satan in Castiel, makes Cas more tiresome than usual.

Edited January 29, 2016 by millennium

[Mulva]

I loved Rowena and I want to see her in hell, bedeviling Crowley.

 

I still don't care for Casifer.  I'm sorry, but Misha isn't pulling it off.  They should have gotten rid of the character years ago - he adds nothing.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Wow - Sam in the cage with Lucifer was just awful.  And the trip down memory lane?  Thanks, Show, for once again pointing out that 'Sam hit a dog.'  Now, I know that Lucifer is a lying liar who lies.  But still...  I'm so over it.   

[bettername2come]

I like this one. I just always enjoy Sam standing up to Lucifer and Sam having faith in Dean, so this one works for me. The opening is nice, but we all know Crowley would've preferred a Dean. Although I'm pretty sure Rowena prefers Sam, so she totally would've gotten him a Sam instead of a Dean. Colin Ford! I've missed him. I liked Ambriel. She was cute and quirky and way nicer than most angels. "Don't worry about Sam." "I'm sorry, have you met me?" I love that Rowena and Crowley are so evenly matched in the battle of wits. "I'm ready to die and I'm ready to watch people I love die, but I'm not ready to be your bitch." I like this line far more than I should. I really like that they tried pulling a "you hold him, I'll punch" on Lucifer of all creatures. I think Rowena's lies are believable for the character. They've made references to her being poor and desperate, so I could see that. The "I'm back, baby" is not a good line reading. I think Casifer has some good moments in this season, but this final scene is not one of them. I'd say Rowena should've seen the neck snap coming, but she seems to have a history of bad decision making when it comes to men, so I'm good with it. 

[Hanahope]

Ah sorry to see Rowena die.  And can I hope that the leader of the grand coven can get unhamstered and do the spell?  I lol’d at Rowena’s dream/nightmare .  I think Crowley did care for Rowena desperate his attempt to look like he didn’t. 

and how sucky is it that it really was Lucifer giving Sam visions.  I’m guessing that Supernatural is ignoring Jesus since you’d think if archangels can take out the darkness so could god’s son?

why does Cas need to drive a car?  He got his grace back, can’t he just blip back and forth?  At least they explained where Michael is.

sucks that for all of Sam’s standing up to Lucifer, Cas had to give in.  It’ll be interesting seeing Misha act like Pelligrino. 

So where is Cas?  Still in the ‘body’?  Really how does that work.

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

why does Cas need to drive a car?  He got his grace back, can’t he just blip back and forth?  At least they explained where Michael is

The angels haven't been able to teleport since they lost their wings, which is why he drives the pimpmobile. He got his grace back but not full wings. 

[Hanahope]

1 minute ago, catrox14 said:

The angels haven't been able to teleport since they lost their wings, which is why he drives the pimpmobile. He got his grace back but not full wings. 

But didn’t those three angles that tried to kill Amarra blip in?

[catrox14]

9 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

But didn’t those three angles that tried to kill Amarra blip in?

Hmmm, good question. Maybe Heaven just beamed them to wherever she was? That's not a spoiler, I'm just trying to figure out how they did get there. Maybe Amara was not on the earthly plane so they could move about different? I really don't now but it just never thought about it before. LOL

ETA: On 2nd though, it had to be on the earthly plane because Dean was driving back to her when it got that stupid smiting sickness. I'm going with someone in Heaven sent them down to fight her, cause otherwise, oh boy the continuity fail is huge. I literally never thought about it until you brought it up. LOL

Edited October 10, 2017 by catrox14

[The Companion]

 

On 1/20/2016 at 11:31 PM, catrox14 said:

I HATED the visual of Rowena being in a fucking collar and then have her neck broken by Casifer.  Fuck you for that SPN.

I am so fucking pissed about this. Surprised? Nope. But irritated that they just had to bring her down a peg and theb snap her neck so that she goes out with a whimper instead of fighting? Fuck that.

Warning: long rant

I know that I am a Rowena fan and a lot of people aren't. I just think she is one of the more interesting villains we have had. She isn't oversexualized (despite being gorgeous) or overly maternal. She has always been unapologetically manipulative, maneuvering and powerful. The Dimness (hee) is more of the same with her plunging necklines and Dean kissing. Meanwhile, Rowena is out here manipulating events to her advantage. She is brutal and evil and is more likely to kill you if she loves you before someone else can do it first. 

But we can't have that on this show, can we? So how does she go out? In a blaze of glory? Nope. First we gotta humble her. Then we have to give her a backstory that makes her look weak and sad and that puts her firmly into the roles we expect for women. Mother. Spurned lover. Let's take away her orgies and career minded thirst for power. She is just a bitter scorned woman. Because how could we ever write a story about a mother who didn't want to be a mother? Who didn't care about her kid? Only men can be those characters. I mean let's take 30 seconds to try and imagine a man trying to sell that bullshit backstory. 

Now that we have given her some context for Crowley to feel something about her death, we can kill her off. Nevermind that literally everyone knows we are going to kill off the sole character in the Lucifer story with a vagina because we always do. I mean, they could have shocked us by killing Crowley, but where is the fun in that? 

So, now we have to believe that Rowena, who has been a step ahead at all times. Who is a master manipulator? Rowena who trusts nobody. That Rowena is too damn stupid to approach LUCIFER with caution because she has been reduced to a GROUPIE (their word). Fuck you, show. 

On 1/21/2016 at 12:17 AM, SueB said:

 

- Billie tormenting Dean with the password. I need her to come back.

- Those voice messages!

I loved Billie but don't want her to come back. They will just snap her damn neck to make one of the men sad.

The voice messages were hilarious. Highlight of the episode for me.

On 1/21/2016 at 9:21 AM, KirkB said:

As I recall, Lucifer wanted Sam because Sam had been designed to contain him and not burn up like normal human bodies. Strictly speaking the same would probably apply to Dean since he was built for Micheal. But the body Cas was in isn't a normal human body. It's not technically even Jimmy's anymore. It's built to contain an angel so it should suffice, at least for a while, and Lucifer may be thinking once he's dealt with Amara he has all the time in the world to tie up Sam and torture him until he finally says yes.

Or to convince Sam that Castiel needs to use his body for some reason.

On 1/21/2016 at 11:09 AM, Omegamom said:

 

I'm sad to see Rowena go, she made a fun villain. But, good lord, woman, how could you be so blind! Any person being asked a leading question like, "Are you the only one who can open the Cage?" should get spidey-senses tingling right away. And Rowena as previously written would have immediately picked up on that. Though she does have a hang-up about wanting to be acknowledged as being "special". Hmm.

Speaking of retcons...Rowena said previously that Fergus was conceived during a witches orgy. Now she's portrayed as being an easily-led innocent tanner's daughter who got conned into bed by the local nobleman's son, and not a witch at that point. Bah.

 

There is 0 chance that Rowena, as previously written, doesn't lie or hedge with that question. I hate hate hate the backstory they gave her. If it wasn't obvious above. 😆😡

 

On 1/21/2016 at 4:42 PM, catrox14 said:

 

This is what I don't get. 

 

My brain keeps coming back to....something is rotten in Denmark. 

 

So much has not made any sense to me this season. The idea that Sam wouldn't consider Lucifer but assumes it's God when Lucifer is the only angel that's fucked with his mind.

 

Cas can't be THAT stupid so I wonder if Amara did something to Cas when she seared that message on to his chest.  Right before that she was telling him he was old and wasted and essentially useless whilst caressing his face.  We've seen that she can put humans in a blissful state if she wants to right before she eats their soul. If she can do that why couldn't she do the reverse, meaning impart depression or anxiety or even a desire to commit suicide. Perhaps when she was touching Cas' face and telling him what a loser he is that it compelled him to make a rash decision because he just wasn't thinking straight?

 

Maybe she actively wants Lucifer out of the cage because she's pretty hubrisy right now. She screamed at the heavens and killed humans to get God's attention. Maybe she messed with Cas so that he WOULD say yes to Lucifer to get Gods attention even further.

 

Also, she told Dean after she kissed that he was seeing his future, which I think was largely assumed to be becoming one with her physically, but maybe she sent Dean a vision through that kiss, but he doesn't remember or just doesn't believe it's real. Can't handle it being real? 

 

Dean thought the message was a promise, so is that promise related to how he's connected to her or just that she will come to help Dean later like she said she would in 11.01. Or could she have put some of herself into Cas through the searing process? 

Oh, this is intriguing and could save the episode for me.

On 1/21/2016 at 11:12 PM, SueB said:

- Rowena: Oh you magnificent woman you. Larger than life she was. A total baddy, and a bit of a head case, but the woman had STYLE. I'm going to miss her. At first I was a bit miffed that she fell for Lucifer and that her hatred stemmed from being a scorned woman.  But really, I'm not sure I bought her truly being in love with whomever the noble was that abandoned her and Fergus.  She's always had that noble-wanna-be stench on her.  It wouldn't surprise me if she had that attitude BEFORE she got pregnant and was just pissed off that the nobleman didn't set her up as a proper mistress.  Surely she didn't think he'd divorce someone back in the 17th century?!  Cared for mistress is the best she could have hoped for in that situation.  It certainly was done often enough.  So... thinking about it some more, I can convince myself that she had thought she had a way into an easy life by getting pregnant and instead became an outcast.  The comment about "if I didn't hate you, I would love you...and love is weakness." did not engender sympathy for her (for me).  Instead, I saw a woman who took out her mistake on her own child and lived a life of revenge (hey, she and John Winchester... now there's a pair).  But of course Rowena was actually vicious about it (versus John, who was just obsessed).  Anyway, her fawning over Lucifer was yet another attempt at borrowed power in my mind.  Not that this makes me not like her.  No... I like Rowena because she was funny... but she was still Evil and slightly pathetic.  So... in that case, getting killed by trying to ride of the power coattails of another man?  Kinda just deserts IMO.  And besides, you put Sammy in that cage with Lucifer.  it's time for you to go bye bye now. 

 

 

I can almost see this, but it isn't what she said or even fully implied. At least then it would be about having power so you weren't beholden to some man to get your power. But then she turns around and trusts . . . Some guy who is powerful to set her up in a life of luxury. 

It was clear she was manipulating for her own power with Crowley. Planting seeds, using his Court against him. To then go to Lucifer with blind trust? Still doesn't work for me.

On 1/29/2016 at 1:07 AM, millennium said:

Rowena was the only bright spot in the Dimness that is the Heaven/Hell/Crowley/Castiel storyline.    But this is Supernatural.  Can't have beautiful, headstrong women running around loose. 

I guess I got spoiled after so many standalone episodes.  Returning to the Crowley and Castiel arc felt like having to go back to school at the end of Christmas break.

 

Yep. Same here. I have come to the conclusion that I will just have to power through this season's arc and enjoy the standalone episodes. I hate the Dimness. She is boring and I am tired of everyone telling me how super powerful she is while she eats one person at a time. 

Meanwhile we retread old ground with Lucifer. The entire story, honestly, feels repetitive. I mean, hell, parts of this episode felt like a clip show. And not even the GOOD clips.

[Katy M]

On 2/5/2020 at 10:13 AM, The Companion said:

Yep. Same here. I have come to the conclusion that I will just have to power through this season's arc and enjoy the standalone episodes. I hate the Dimness. She is boring and I am tired of everyone telling me how super powerful she is while she eats one person at a time. 

Gosh, yes. She is the lamest "big bad" in the history of the show.

[Aeryn13]

8 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Gosh, yes. She is the lamest "big bad" in the history of the show.

I enjoyed her far more than the fifty million times they dredged up Lucifer/Pellegrino. 

[DeeDee79]

42 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I enjoyed her far more than the fifty million times they dredged up Lucifer/Pellegrino. 

OMG yes. I would have gladly taken more of Amara in exchange.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

OMG yes. I would have gladly taken more of Amara in exchange.

Spoiler

If only she could have killed off Lucifer in Cas's meatsuit. Two winged dicks birds with one stone. Now that would've made her a great hero big bad.

Actual spoiler thru S11.

Edited February 6, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[DeeDee79]

33 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

  Reveal spoiler

If only she couldn't have killed off Lucifer in Cas's meatsuit. Two winged dicks birds with one stone. Now that would've made her a great hero big bad.

Actual spoiler thru S11.

I detect no lies in your statement.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I enjoyed her far more than the fifty million times they dredged up Lucifer/Pellegrino. 

I'd easily take her over godstiel and the Leviathans, too. 

[The Companion]

3 hours ago, Myrelle said:

I'd easily take her over godstiel and the Leviathans, too. 

I know I am an outlier, but I actual liked the Leviathans, other than the cheeseball special effects. 

[S Cook Productions]

On 2/6/2020 at 4:49 PM, The Companion said:

I know I am an outlier, but I actual liked the Leviathans, other than the cheeseball special effects. 

Same. And I liked Godstiel too (as a villain, I mean- I didn’t LIKE him). 😉

[The Companion]

10 minutes ago, S Cook Productions said:

Same. And I liked Godstiel too (as a villain, I mean- I didn’t LIKE him). 😉

I liked him but hated that deteriorated so rapidly. I actually enjoyed that he felt completely unbeatable. 

[S Cook Productions]

17 hours ago, The Companion said:

I liked him but hated that deteriorated so rapidly. I actually enjoyed that he felt completely unbeatable. 

Agreed!

[Nick24]

On 2/6/2020 at 8:42 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

  Hide contents

If only she could have killed off Lucifer in Cas's meatsuit. Two winged dicks birds with one stone. Now that would've made her a great hero big bad.

Actual spoiler thru S11.

I just love what you wrote in ''Hide contents''. So true!