All Episodes Talk: Walk With Me

[GHScorpiosRule]

I know this is unpopular, but I like Josh. Except when I don't, if that makes sense.

But he REALLY pissed me off in "The Indians in the Lobby" because he kept referring to the two NATIVE AMERICANS as "The Indians". I KNOW that by 2000 at least, that Native Americans was how you referred to them. At the time this aired, I worked at a law firm where all our clients were members of different Native American nations and pueblos. And really, those that hail from India are Indians. And the indigenous peoples in the Amazon, I believe.

And then his...I don't know...betrayal of Hoynes, as he led the meeting to get him off the ticket as Vice President? When he originally worked on his campaign before leaving to work on Bartlet's? Then there was that one episode (blanking on the name here), from the first season, when they're both jogging, where Hoynes admits he would have won had he listened to Josh. Or something. So he peeved me in "Stirred".

While I understand there is a host of other reasons to dislike him, I think it's because I like Bradley Whitford, that I put up with him. Then of course, I fast forward all his scenes with Donna, so that could be why I don't hate him.

And I don't know why Amy rubs me the wrong way, but she does.

Because he does have his good moments.

[BW Manilowe]

The TNT Friday morning repeats are cross-promoting the HBO Max special. Every so often during the episodes, a “bug” pops up in the corner of the screen telling viewers to watch it.

On Friday, October 23rd (next Friday), TNT will be showing:

9AM EASTERN/8 AM CENTRAL: “Game On”

10AM EASTERN/9AM CENTRAL: “Election Night”

11AM EASTERN/10 AM CENTRAL: “Process Stories”

Check local listings for the correct channel in your area.

[A.Ham]

I loved the HBO special. How easily these actors can slip into those roles as if almost two decades have not passed. I just love these actors and this show. I also liked Sterling K. Brown in this-no one will ever replace John Spencer, but Sterling is a heavy hitter in his own right, and I think he did a great job.

In other Aaron Sorkin news, has anyone watched The trial of the Chicago 7? It just released today on Netflix. I need to check it out. 

[ProudMary]

1 minute ago, A.Ham said:

In other Aaron Sorkin news, has anyone watched The trial of the Chicago 7? It just released today on Netflix. I need to check it out. 

I was just coming to post about the film. Big week for Aaron Sorkin! I thought it was excellent. The cast is amazing; they all give great performances. 

I remember that there's already a dedicated thread in the Movies forum for the film. I'll try to find it and link it here.

[A.Ham]

52 minutes ago, ProudMary said:

I remember that there's already a dedicated thread in the Movies forum for the film. I'll try to find it and link it here.

I would really like that. I didn’t even know there was a thread for movies on here. I had done a haphazard search with no luck.

[ottoDbusdriver]

21 hours ago, ProudMary said:

I am definitely a fan of Sterling K. Brown having seen and been impressed by him in many different films and shows and although he did a good job, I was taken out of each scene just a bit, each time he made an appearance. What seemed wrong to me was that in light of how much the major characters have aged since the show ended, SKB just seemed too young for the Chief of Staff role in comparison. Hell, even Dule Hill's a bit older than SKB is! He's a great actor at the top of his game and it's not as if I have anyone else in mind. I guess seeing anyone but John Spencer as Leo was going to be tough on all of us who loved him so. 😢

 

Sterling K. Brown was really good, but I missed Leo's voice most of all.

Man, I miss this show -- this special is one of the best examples of getting the band back together and putting on a masterpiece.   
Can't believe it's been nearly 18 and a half years since the original aired.  Nobody missed a beat.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, A.Ham said:

I would really like that. I didn’t even know there was a thread for movies on here.

The movie forum is here, in the Pop Culture section of the home page.  The thread for The Trial of the Chicago 7 is here.

[MissL]

It was so good to see everyone! I loved it and probably the first time ever I LIKED the commercials as much as the show. 🙂

Only sharing some critique because that’s what we do here:
I rewatched the original episode this morning and I don’t think the conversations in the special felt as smooth or natural Or spontaneous as the show but I think because it was obviously more of a stage play. It was still wonderful to see them and I wasn’t expecting so many of the other characters to appear and that was an awesome surprise.  
 

Rob Lowe looks amazing and doesn’t seem to age and yet it was a little harder for me to believe the “wow that’s amazing” earnestness that Sam had back in the day from an obviously much more mature man.  It looked like Rob Lowe had the script next to him in one scene and I thought ..did he not go off book? Then I thought “am I a nerd? and Then I realized they probably had it there on purpose.

I do love Sterling but he didn’t convey that unspoken thing that Leo always had which was that he was slightly exasperated but loved these goofballs. 
I will say it’s a testament to how good it was that when they switched to the footage from the actual episode at the end it took a second for it to register because it felt so natural. I love these guys. I smiled through the whole thing.

With all that said I DIDN'T REALLY CARE About Any of The little things and loved every second of it. West Wing is my comfort blanket.

[PeterPirate]

Sorkin got a screen credit for writing some of the extra material for the special.  But as far as I could tell he didn't appear on screen, which I found odd.  

And I'll throw this one out there:  

On 10/14/2020 at 10:05 AM, AriAu said:

Conchata Ferrell was in Mystic Pizza with

Annabeth Gish who was Liz Bartlet Westin

Conchata Ferrell was in Hot l Baltimore with

Richard Masur who was in Forget Paris with

John Spencer

[SoMuchTV]

My goodness, could they make this any harder to watch?  Or maybe I'm just the only dinosaur who doesn't have HBO Max.  I decided to do the week free trial.  I have a smart TV and two fire sticks, and none of them seem to have a way to watch HBO Max.  There appeared to be an iPhone app that I could cast to the TV, but it had terrible reviews. So I ended up watching it on my PC. 

A lot of the pro-voting messages seemed to be aimed at 18-24 year olds, and especially young Black males.  I'm having a hard time imagining that very many people in that target group are going to seek out a remake of a 20-year-old show with a bunch of 60- and 70-something actors.

But having said all that, I really did enjoy it.  I had forgotten how much happened in that episode.  Sterling K. Brown was fine, but it just didn't seem right that Leo was younger than Charlie.  Maybe they should have given SKB a touch of gray or something.  I never really warmed up to Ainsley in the series but it was kind of comforting to hear Emily Procter reading the stage directions.

And now I'm back to my watch of the original series.  I just finished season 4 - quite a cliffhanger, especially considering it was the end of the Sorkin era.  I'm not sure what to expect now!

[ProudMary]

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Sorkin got a screen credit for writing some of the extra material for the special.  But as far as I could tell he didn't appear on screen, which I found odd.  

I did see Sorkin in one of the B&W behind-the-scenes clips that ran between acts.

[Moose135]

2 hours ago, SoMuchTV said:

And now I'm back to my watch of the original series.  I just finished season 4 - quite a cliffhanger, especially considering it was the end of the Sorkin era.  I'm not sure what to expect now!

We're doing a full series re-watch - well, re-watch for me, I've seen them all countless times, but first time the GF has seen it, and she's really become a fan. We watched the last three episodes of S4 last night, and they left her in tears. It was getting late, but she couldn't call it a night until we watched the first couple of episodes of S5 to see where it went. You won't be disappointed.

[SoMuchTV]

3 hours ago, Moose135 said:

We're doing a full series re-watch - well, re-watch for me, I've seen them all countless times, but first time the GF has seen it, and she's really become a fan. We watched the last three episodes of S4 last night, and they left her in tears. It was getting late, but she couldn't call it a night until we watched the first couple of episodes of S5 to see where it went. You won't be disappointed.

Lalalalala. I’m trying not to read the “future” episode descriptions when I pull it up on Netflix. 

Back to the special. I was a little disappointed not to see Fitz and Danny. Maybe the weren’t in the original but it felt like they should have been. Oh and MARGARET!  (My daughter’s name is Margaret. I’ve threatened to record Leo yelling “Margaret!” to use as her ringtone.  There’s at least one per episode.) But it was good to see Reporter Steve, and Ed & Larry. 

[BW Manilowe]

21 hours ago, MissL said:

It looked like Rob Lowe had the script next to him in one scene and I thought ..did he not go off book? Then I thought “am I a nerd? and Then I realized they probably had it there on purpose.

You aren’t a nerd. I noticed the script on Sam’s desk in the same scene I think you’re referencing. I also noticed a script on the table where Jed & Toby were playing chess. I think it was facing Richard Schiff’s side of the table. There could’ve been other instances of “visible script”, but I didn’t notice (so far I’ve only watched it that 1 time, on the early morning of the 15th). I was also willing to cut everybody some slack, because I thought this was supposed to be more like a “dramatic reading”, where scripts are allowed, than an actual play performance of the episode.

[Guest]

On 10/17/2020 at 11:48 AM, Moose135 said:

We're doing a full series re-watch - well, re-watch for me, I've seen them all countless times, but first time the GF has seen it, and she's really become a fan. We watched the last three episodes of S4 last night, and they left her in tears. It was getting late, but she couldn't call it a night until we watched the first couple of episodes of S5 to see where it went. You won't be disappointed.

This happened to me when I first watched- I watched “one more episode” that was the last episode of season 1 (and then was up til 2 am watching the next 2) and then a month later also watched “one more” and got sucked into the end of 4 and had to stay up for a few of season 5!

[BW Manilowe]

Both from Vanity Fair: 

The West Wing and What the Constitution Means to Me: Two Plays for Our Dying Democracy

The West Wing’s Charlie and Donna Look Back

Edited October 19, 2020 by BW Manilowe
To add italics to a title.

[unammed4areason]

Hi,

I've been a fan of the WW for ages now, and with the HBO special being made, I thought I'd do a small summary of why I find this show so outstanding. Hopefully I'm not breaching any forum rules by posting this here.

Cheers.

Edited October 22, 2020 by unammed4areason
Typos and syntax

[blondiec0332]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:30 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

While I understand there is a host of other reasons to dislike him, I think it's because I like Bradley Whitford, that I put up with him. Then of course, I fast forward all his scenes with Donna, so that could be why I don't hate him.

I love me some Bradley Whitford.  I liked Josh.  He would irritate me sometimes but there wasn't a character that didn't irritate me.  Am I mistaken thinking Josh was based on Rahm Emmanuel?

On 10/16/2020 at 11:30 AM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I don't know why Amy rubs me the wrong way, but she does.

I didn't like Amy and I'm not sure if it was the character or Mary Louise Parker playing her that caused my dislike. I lean toward it being MLP.  I loved Weeds but didn't like her character there either.

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

I love me some Bradley Whitford.  I liked Josh.  He would irritate me sometimes but there wasn't a character that didn't irritate me.  Am I mistaken thinking Josh was based on Rahm Emmanuel?

I didn't like Amy and I'm not sure if it was the character or Mary Louise Parker playing her that caused my dislike. I lean toward it being MLP.  I loved Weeds but didn't like her character there either.

Regarding the bolded:  It’s been said, kind of a lot, that Josh was based, in part, on former WH Chief of Staff & former Chicago Mayor (his most recent professional credits) Rahm Emanuel. But Lawrence O’Donnell, former Executive Producer & Writer on The West Wing (he also played Jed’s dad in “Two Cathedrals”) & now an MSNBC program host, disputes this. In other instances, it’s also been said that Josh is based, in part, on former President Clinton adviser Paul Begala, who notes that some of Josh’s experiences in the first season are some of the same as he went through.

Edited October 19, 2020 by BW Manilowe
To add a comment and remove a typo.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, blondiec0332 said:

I lean toward it being MLP

I was always distracted by how she talked without moving her lips.  Took me right out of the story!

[BlackberryJam]

I disliked Amy because she fought for women but didn’t celebrate women, or even seem to like other women. Her disrespect of Helen Santos was pretty extreme. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

4 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I love me some Bradley Whitford.  I liked Josh.  He would irritate me sometimes but there wasn't a character that didn't irritate me. 

So true! I think Charlie was the only one who didn't irritate me.

And man, did they trash/paint Josh as an incompetent boob in the beginning of Five. The man couldn't do anything right! Leo snuck in that pollster? whatever she was Angela from New York, who took over Josh's job. And even Leo was acting out of character.

And why am I continuing to watch since Rob Lowe and Sorkin are gone? Blech.

Since Annabeth Gish was so underutilized, I find not liking Liz. Like, at ALL. And all her anger on her husband's behalf, only to find out he'd been cheating on her? And his smug self-righteousness in asking Josh to put in a good word for him. And when that didn't happen, he's like, well, I don't need the president's endorsement anywayz, like a petulant baby.

 

[BlackberryJam]

Doug Westin (Liz’s husband) was a total douche. Total. 

I found it pretty glaring that neither Zoe nor Liz was in Ellie’s wedding episode.

[AriAu]

Sorry to be late to the party, but I was busy watching the special for the 4th or 5th time. It just made me smile...it was like seeing old friends, but mostly like listening to old friends since some looked somewhat different (yeah, I am looking at you Bradley Whitford, Allison Janney and Dule Hill) but all sounded the same. While the acting was uniformally wonderful, it really felt like Richard Schiff and Martin Sheen just calmly slipped right back into Toby and POTUS like they hadn't missed a day.

Watching Donna go out to make her campaign calls made me think of something.......did Andrew Shepard violate the Hatch Act during his "making you afraid of it and telling  you who's to blame for it" speech since he could not be any more clearly on White House property in the press room?

EDITED TO ADD  Never mind...I just remembered that the Hatch Act doesn't actually apply to the President......good thing he ended with "I am the President"!

Edited October 19, 2020 by AriAu

[Cyranetta]

Condolences to Allison Janney - her mother passed away.

[anna0852]

Just watched. Like visiting with old friends. Loved Brad's monologue at the beginning! Very funny and at the same time you could hear him choking up over John Spencer 😥

[BW Manilowe]

2 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Just watched. Like visiting with old friends. Loved Brad's monologue at the beginning! Very funny and at the same time you could hear him choking up over John Spencer 😥

Regarding the bolded: It’ll be 15 years (Already!) in December since John Spencer passed, & they all still seem to miss him like it happened yesterday. I wish/hope I have friends like that; not sure I do, for a lot of reasons.

Edited October 20, 2020 by BW Manilowe
To add a comment.

[A.Ham]

Spoiler tags just in case:

Spoiler

 

Gail the fish made an appearance!!! Though I could not tell what was in her fish bowl, maybe ballot boxes?

Anyways, I loved that Charlie made sure she was safe when CJ’s desk fell apart. Nice bit to add, as it was not in the original episode.

 

 

[Guest]

23 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

Doug Westin (Liz’s husband) was a total douche. Total. 

I found it pretty glaring that neither Zoe nor Liz was in Ellie’s wedding episode.

I think I read that it was a budget issue, but I wish they had at least referred to them more.  Like make it seem like they were just in the next room somehow.

[blondiec0332]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

I think I read that it was a budget issue, but I wish they had at least referred to them more.  Like make it seem like they were just in the next room somehow.

TV shows are horrible at this.  Whenever a character should be onscreen but isn't due to some offscreen issue (budget, actor unavailable) they make their absence more glaring by simply not mentioning it.   Like you said casually say they are in another room or say Liz's kids came down with chicken pox or something.

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

TV shows are horrible at this.  Whenever a character should be onscreen but isn't due to some offscreen issue (budget, actor unavailable) they make their absence more glaring by simply not mentioning it.   Like you said casually say they are in another room or say Liz's kids came down with chicken pox or something.

I mean it could have been as simple as talking about one of them being her maid of honor or saying something like "Liz already has the kids downstairs with the photographers, so we need to hurry before they get into things."  I don't know.  It just felt sloppy the way it was done.

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

I mean it could have been as simple as talking about one of them being her maid of honor or saying something like "Liz already has the kids downstairs with the photographers, so we need to hurry before they get into things."  I don't know.  It just felt sloppy the way it was done.

Could be that a line like that was in but then cut because it didn't do anything to move the story forward and they needed another line more urgently elsewhere.

[BW Manilowe]

7 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

TV shows are horrible at this.  Whenever a character should be onscreen but isn't due to some offscreen issue (budget, actor unavailable) they make their absence more glaring by simply not mentioning it.   Like you said casually say they are in another room or say Liz's kids came down with chicken pox or something.

At some point around the 3rd or 4th season of the recently-ended Hawaii Five-0 reboot, Scott Caan got his work schedule on the show changed so that, for every 5 episodes his Co-Star/the show’s lead, Alex O’Loughlin, did Scott could be written out of 1 episode (at least initially... it might’ve been changed again later on; it felt like it was changed so Scott  could miss more than 1 ep for every 5 Alex did to some regular viewers, but it was too hard to actually keep track of). The reason for the reduced work schedule was, ostensibly, so he could spend more time with his family (at the least, his father, acting legend James Caan; his [female] partner &, later, their daughter, Josie James Caan, who was born in 2014, right before filming resumed for the 4th season—if not also his half-siblings from his father’s other relationships), who lived in LA while he was filming in Hawaii; this all came about after Scott’s mother died of Cancer just prior to the beginning of the show’s 2nd season.

They didn’t mention a reason for his character, Danny (who was also the team’s second in command), to be away on a work day very often either—maybe 1 of every 5 absences, if that. That bugged, because they could so easily have added a throwaway line, like he was testifying in court on a case, he had to have dental surgery, etc., & they didn’t. I probably could’ve come up with enough excuses that made sense to cover the non-appearances. At least, most of the time, if Danny had been injured in a previous episode McGarrett or 1 of the other characters would be smart enough to slip a “Danny’s not here because he’s still recovering from his recent injury” excuse into their dialogue, so we got an excuse if Danny had suffered an injury previously.

But it still bugs when writers have to work around an actor’s reduced work schedule—expected or not—& they can’t come up with a clever line for another actor to toss in about why the missing character isn’t in the episode that week. You’d think, if they were clever enough to write the rest of the script they could come up with *1* more, SHORT, stinking line explaining the whereabouts of *1*, usually ever present, character in an ep.

[anna0852]

Oh that drove me nuts about 5-0!

[ProudMary]

There's a YouTube video up of The West Wing Cast Trivia Event fundraiser for the Biden/Harris campaign from last week. (48:14)  Fun!

 

[blondiec0332]

10 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

But it still bugs when writers have to work around an actor’s reduced work schedule—expected or not—& they can’t come up with a clever line for another actor to toss in about why the missing character isn’t in the episode that week. You’d think, if they were clever enough to write the rest of the script they could come up with *1* more, SHORT, stinking line explaining the whereabouts of *1*, usually ever present, character in an ep.

I think it was one of the Friends books that quoted a writer as saying he never paid attention to previous scripts when writing his scripts. If more writers are like him then that explains inconsistencies and fucked up continuity on tv shows.

I also think a lot of TV writers/producers think poorly of the viewers. That we won't notice things or we won't care when something makes absolutely no sense.  Before the internet they could get away with that but with the ability to criticize what we see onscreen in real time viewers have a voice now.  Of course that doesn't mean they will listen to  us.

When the West Wing was on the internet of course existed but it was before social media.  I think if it aired now it would be discussed on  Twitter and plots would have to be marked as spoilers until people had a chance to watch the next episode online.  I can clearly see a scene with Toby trying to explain to President Bartlett how to tweet and him resisting him becoming exasperated.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm not a fan of John Wells' writing. Like Sorkin, he wrote a good number of scripts. But I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVERRRRRRRR Forgive him for greenlighting killing Admiral Fitzwallace! NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!!!!!  Or for saddling me with that annoying Kate and getting rid of Anna Deavere Smith's Nancy McNally (NSA Director). McCormack gets to be in the opening credits and Anna doesn't??!!!

I don't remember if Nancy was just sidelined, but "Liftoff" was her last episode until Leo's funeral ("Requiem") and then episode 19, which was..."Transition", but I barely remember the final season because I think I only watched Leo's funeral and recall Teri Polo being all uncomfortable as First Lady and having her staff tell her they were her...staff and they did the things that she insisted she could do herself. Or something. I just know she irritated me. And even though I rewatched when I got the dvd set, I still fast forwarded anything and all that didn't show the original cast--or who was left. Except for Donna. I continued and continue to fast forward her scenes.

So I don't know if Anna's scenes were just a non-speaking appearance or just one or two lines.

And why am I such a glutton for punishment, that I sat here, last night, and watched, in horror and fear, as Leo had that massive heart attack? Knowing that in a little over a year, John Spencer would suffer the same fate, except he wouldn't recover. Why didn't I just fast forward it?

And I don't know if this is unpopular (Still bitter this show was vaulted to a single thread), but I'm so, so, so, sick and tired of the Israel/Palestine story lines. I don't give any good goddamns about the pseudo-fictional and preaching I get from these episodes. So...fast forward it is.

I wish Haffley had been the one to get killed. Yes, I said it. I can't stand his smug, smarmy, arrogant asshole self.

Edited October 21, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[blondiec0332]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I don't know if this is unpopular (Still bitter this show was vaulted to a single thread), but I'm so, so, so, sick and tired of the Israel/Palestine story lines. I don't give any good goddamns about the pseudo-fictional and preaching I get from these episodes. So...fast forward it is.

I much preferred when the storylines were about the characters and how they dealt with what was happening.  I didn't need to hear all the details.  

 

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I'm not a fan of John Welles' writing. Like Sorkin, he wrote a good number of scripts. But I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVERRRRRRRR Forgive him for greenlighting killing Admiral Fitzwallace! NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER!!!!!  

I loved Fitzwallace.  He was one of many of the great supporting characters.  Which also included.....

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Or for saddling me with that annoying Kate and getting rid of Anna Deavere Smith's Nancy McNally (NSA Director). McCormack gets to be in the opening credits and Anna doesn't??!!!

I absolutely love Anna. She is such a good actress that you can't help but just be so captivated by any character she plays.  I watched American President last week and she was an aid to the president and I thought how nice she got promoted on the West Wing.

Edited October 21, 2020 by blondiec0332

[BlackberryJam]

Oh I loved Admiral Sissymary and Dr. Strangelove! Some of the best side character interactions were Fitzwallace and McNally.

It always bothered me how they went from McNally being totally down with bombing the crap out of Qumar to her not wanting to be aggressive after Zoe's kidnapping. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I also adore Tim Matheson and just got whiplash over how they kept flipping his character. He’s an asshole! No, he’s really a good guy. No! He’s a cheating asshole! The worst part was that retcon of him and CJ. Especially since there was no indication there was any history between them along those lines during their few face to face interactions.

So as I’m sitting here, watching season six, I can’t remember what ultimately happened with Hoynes.

Edited October 22, 2020 by GHScorpiosRule

[BW Manilowe]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I also adore Tim Matheson and just got whiplash over how they kept flipping his character. He’s an asshole! No, he’s really a good guy. No! He’s a cheating asshole! The worst part as that retcon of him and CJ. Especially since there was no indication there was any history between them.

So as I’m sitting here, watching season six, I can’t remember what ultimately happened with Hoynes.

Regarding the bolded: Hoynes resigned due to a sex scandal. He was having an affair with a woman named Helen Baldwin (I think), & he would tell her all sorts of government-related things he wasn’t supposed to in the course of “pillow talk”. She decided to write a book about the affair/all the stuff he was telling her that he had no business telling her. A Washington gossip columnist mentioned the book, or the book deal & what it was about, in his column & that precipitated Hoynes’ resignation as VPOTUS & “Bingo Bob” Russell’s ascension to the office.

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 minutes ago, BW Manilowe said:

Regarding the bolded: Hoynes resigned due to a sex scandal. He was having an affair with a woman named Helen Baldwin (I think), & he would tell her all sorts of government-related things he wasn’t supposed to in the course of “pillow talk”. She decided to write a book about the affair/all the stuff he was telling her that he had no business telling her. A Washington gossip columnist mentioned the book, or the book deal & what it was about, in his column & that precipitated Hoynes’ resignation as VPOTUS & “Bingo Bob” Russell’s ascension to the office.

It was Brooke Baldwin and this happened in season four.

But Hoynes returned in season six and has declared his run for the presidency. I just can’t remember how he was finally written off.

[BW Manilowe]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

It was Brooke Baldwin and this happened in season four.

But Hoynes returned in season six and has declared his run for the presidency. I just can’t remember how he was finally written off.

According to the West Wing Wiki, it was Helen Baldwin who had the affair with Hoynes & wrote the book about it, which caused his resignation from the Vice-Presidency. Brooke Baldwin is a real-life CNN Anchor whose newscast airs, like, 2-4PM Eastern (I’m pretty sure that’s the timeframe).

Again according to the West Wing Wiki, Hoynes wrote a book (in Season 5),  Full Disclosure, for a $5 million advance, to repair his image so he could run for President in 2006 & succeed President Bartlet. Hoynes’ 2006 presidential campaign was “temporarily suspended” during the primaries after a former Senate staffer was paid by a tabloid to talk about a sexual relationship (without talking about the actual sex) she had with then-Senator Hoynes. He retreated to Washington to be with his wife & family. Judging by comments after this disclosure, by California Governor Tillman, by Will Bailey of Bingo Bob” Russell’s Presidential Campaign, and the media, among many others; and in consideration of being dogged by rumors of his sexual exploits since the Senate, which only subsided after the book and interview, his political career is effectively over. 

This has been confirmed by the season six finale, in which he wound up as neither the presidential candidate or the running mate for the 2006 election on the Democratic side. 

Hoynes would later be present at Leo McGarry's funeral service.

 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Helen, Brooke, whatever. She never appeared, so I'm not overly concerned getting her name wrong.

And all due respect, but I have watched this series. All I was saying was I didn't remember how Hoynes was finally written off the show.

The show should have just ended after season five. Halfway into the sixth season and it isn't about the main characters any longer. Josh is off campaigning for Santos; and all I'm seeing is the campaigning stuff for that idiot Bob as well.

I enjoyed watching Josh and Toby meet with Congress in the first two seasons. There was nuance. But since Season five, I can't tell who the Democrats are and who the Republicans are because ALL of them are so arrogant, smug, and full of themselves, and they all want what's best for their agenda. I wanted my President Bartlet to enter those rooms as BADASS as he did in the pilot and put ALL these ASSHATS in their place.

There's hardly any Bartlet or Leo.

And just GO AWAY, Kate! Acting as if she's granting Leo a favor by mealymouthily saying you'd like to talk to him. And then when she shows up, she's acting as if LEO asked to meet and talk with her!

I swear, Leo, Charlie, and CJ are the ONLY ones who don't bug me right now. I should stop. But I'm anal retentive and will watch till the bitter end. Being able to fast forward helps a lot!

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

All I was saying was I didn't remember how Hoynes was finally written off the show.

It was down to him, Bingo Bob, and Santos (as a long-shot) for the nomination in Season 6.  Obviously, Santos was going to win because Jimmy Smits was in the credits and the other two weren't. But then there was another Hoynes sex scandal so he dropped out of the race and Santos picked up a lot of his voters.  (I believe it was an old scandal, but it just brought up all the sum of his allegations and scandals.)

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, deaja said:

It was down to him, Bingo Bob, and Santos (as a long-shot) for the nomination in Season 6.  Obviously, Santos was going to win because Jimmy Smits was in the credits and the other two weren't. But then there was another Hoynes sex scandal so he dropped out of the race and Santos picked up a lot of his voters.  (I believe it was an old scandal, but it just brought up all the sum of his allegations and scandals.)

Thanks @deaja!

And just a bit of trivia for those that didn't know, and I learned this a few years ago: Tim Matheson was the voice of Jonny Quest in that amazing 70s cartoon! Even though I had/have my issues over Hadji and how the Indian characters didn't speak with an Indian accent, that show was one of my jams in my childhood. I never knew Tim was a child actor! Okay, teen actor, because dude would have been around 17, providing the voice for a 12-13 year old!😁😅

[BlackberryJam]

I have loved Tim since he said the words, “Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damned glad to meet you.”

The Hoynes sex scandals were gross, but well...seemed in character. 

Season 6 is very uneven.

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

I have loved Tim since he said the words, “Eric Stratton, rush chairman, damned glad to meet you.”

The Hoynes sex scandals were gross, but well...seemed in character. 

Season 6 is very uneven.

I disagree.  His reaction to the first one was really pretty honorable - like he shouldn't have done what he did, but Jed and Leo talk about covering it up and he basically says "I did it and I need to go now, for my wife's sake if nothing else." Then suddenly in Season 5, it was one of many affairs. Then in Season 6 there was even more. To me it seemed very forced to set up drama in Season 5 and then to set up a path for Santos in Season 6.   

[PeterPirate]

Various random thoughts and reactions: 

In the HBO special, Bartlet refers to the Hudson River being an "estuary".  But in the original episode he called it a "tidal estuary".  

Even if one of the daughters was said to be out because of chicken pox, in this show that would have been code for something else.  

The last low-angle shot of Hoynes in the season 6 finale is priceless.  

I've also always found Amy distracting too.  But probably in a different way than others.  

Edited October 22, 2020 by PeterPirate

[GHScorpiosRule]

Toby makes it really hard to have any sympathy for him in "Drought Conditions".

And DAMN. I totally blanked out that fight between him and Josh.

I'm trying to understand or see why he's so angry and bitter. I guess I'm just stupid because it's all so confusing.