Original Flavor Season Talk: Dinner at Rodbell's

[JakeyJokes]

On 1/16/2018 at 6:03 PM, chocolatine said:

100%. I hated every second Nancy was on screen. I know Sandra Bernhard is a famous comedienne, but the Nancy character didn't work at all in the context of the show.

I definitely think Sandra Bernhard's fame/zeitgeist is why Nancy was on so much (sidebar: I saw her perform in November and she's incredible). The "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" episode is obviously remembered for the kiss with Muriel Hemingway, but it's also the only episode that really delves into Roseanne's friendship with Nancy. Roseanne is a suburban married mother of three; Nancy is young, sexually fluid and carefree, and Roseanne lives vicariously through her. 

Fun fact: I came across a blog of the head designer for the Magic: The Gathering cards. When he was in his 20s, he wrote for Roseanne. He was only there for one season but the first episode he wrote was Nancy's first appearance, so per writers' guild rules he created the character and got paid every time she was an episode. He must have been THRILLED that Nancy was in so many episodes up to the finale!

[TheGreenKnight]

This may be an odd opinion, but I liked all of the side characters on this show (Crystal, Nancy, Leon, Bonnie, Arnold, etc.) except for Leon's husband. The actor always got on my nerves. I'd rather they had kept around the guy he was dating while Roseanne was working in the diner. They were hilarious together.

[the-grey-lady]

Crystal reminded me of that old friend from high school that you kinda like but also put up with, and who sticks around primarily because you've been friends so long. I thought the show nailed that common dynamic really well.

[Dee]

That's one of the reasons I loved Anne Marie & Bonnie. They brought balance to Roseanne's circle of friends.

When it was just Roseanne, Jackie & Crystal, Rosie was usually stuck babysitting neurotic Jackie and/or constantly placating sadsack Crystal.

Once wry Anne Marie & earthy Bonnie were fully brought into the fold, Roseanne finally had girlfriends who felt more like equals.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Dee

[Mmmfloorpie]

15 hours ago, Dee said:

That's one of the reasons I loved Anne Marie & Bonnie. They brought balance to Roseanne's circle of friends.

When it was just Roseanne, Jackie & Crystal, Rosie was usually stuck babysitting neurotic Jackie and/or constantly placating sadsack Crystal.

Once wry Anne Marie & earthy Bonnie were fully brought into the fold, Roseanne finally had girlfriends who felt more like equals.

Sitcoms are usually based around conflict/contrast which explaìns why they didn't pair Rosey with "equals" from the beginning. 

I have gone back and watched season 1 a couple times recently and I don't think Jackie was originally concieved of as flakey and lacking self confidence.

I think she was supposed to be an obnoxious, petulant/strong willed younger sister who was going to be a foil to Dan "You know what your problem is??". The mooch that always came over to do laundry and bug Dan.

Crystal was supposed to be the flakey one with low self confidence that Roseanne always had to prop up.

In season 2 they made Jackie into the indecisive, low self esteem sad sack. She kind of took that mantle over from Crystal and as we all know, Crystal disapeared early into season 5.

[Bastet]

Yes, the chemistry between Roseanne Barr and Laurie Metcalf was so great, they started writing Jackie into situations that had been intended for Crystal, making Crystal more of a peripheral character.  Thank the universe.

[Mmmfloorpie]

40 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yes, the chemistry between Roseanne Barr and Laurie Metcalf was so great, they started writing Jackie into situations that had been intended for Crystal, making Crystal more of a peripheral character.  Thank the universe.

Lol.

[peacheslatour]

45 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yes, the chemistry between Roseanne Barr and Laurie Metcalf was so great, they started writing Jackie into situations that had been intended for Crystal, making Crystal more of a peripheral character.  Thank the universe.

I'm of two minds on this. Good: Less Crystal. Bad: Inept, incompetent Jackie. I would rather have had more Crystal even though I found her annoying if it meant Jackie was still fun loving and witty. I just wish she had taken the desk job with the cops and stayed with Gary. The actor who played Gary had great chemistry with Dan, he would have been a cool addition to the weekly poker games. I hated Arnie and Nancy both and in fact I think the show really started to turn to crap when they introduced those two characters. They should have kept Tom Arnold as a writer and kept him off the screen. YMMV

[SparklesBitch]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm of two minds on this. Good: Less Crystal. Bad: Inept, incompetent Jackie. I would rather have had more Crystal even though I found her annoying if it meant Jackie was still fun loving and witty. I just wish she had taken the desk job with the cops and stayed with Gary. 

Same! Jackie has always been my favorite, but as time went on I felt like they took this complex, layered character who was, like you said, fun-loving and witty, as well as a bunch of other good qualities....and turned her into Gilligan. Ugh. 

Also, I feel like she and Gary could have worked it out. I liked him, they had fun chemistry, and they could have talked more about his fears as they related to her being a cop. I know the ultimatum he laid down was gross, but I thought he was a genuinely good guy who sort of panicked. 

Also, Jackie loved being a cop. I liked that it gave her confidence and she didn’t really have much confidence outside of that. 

[Mmmfloorpie]

I always liked Fisher before he beat up Jackie.

Maybe Gary should have been the spousal abuser and Fisher the good guy.

I bet Laurie would have approved.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

but I thought he was a genuinely good guy who sort of panicked.  

That was my impression as well. I really think it all would have worked out if she had taken the desk job, She could still wear the uniform, I think.

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm of two minds on this. Good: Less Crystal. Bad: Inept, incompetent Jackie. I would rather have had more Crystal even though I found her annoying if it meant Jackie was still fun loving and witty. I just wish she had taken the desk job with the cops and stayed with Gary. The actor who played Gary had great chemistry with Dan, he would have been a cool addition to the weekly poker games. I hated Arnie and Nancy both and in fact I think the show really started to turn to crap when they introduced those two characters. They should have kept Tom Arnold as a writer and kept him off the screen. YMMV

I don't think it would have worked to make Jackie too "together" career- and relationship-wise, it's just the wackiness of the last couple of seasons that was too much for me. I was OK with her walking away from the police desk job and from Gary, because, while those weren't good choices, they were relatable to those of us who have experience with self-sabotage. And if she hadn't dumped Gary we wouldn't have gotten the domestic abuse storyline with Fisher, which was arguably the most well-acted storyline of the show's entire run. 

[readster]

I was watching the Community Theatre episode last night where Dan is hit with the flu and the lead actress for Roxanne gets sick leading to Jackie taking over the role since she is the understudy. I like and hate it at the same time. The entire thing with Dan being sick is hilarious, and even Roseanne telling Jackie that community theatre is fun, but don't expect it to lead to anything. However, with the lead actor saying how Jackie sucks and so forth. I wanted to go: "ok, you guys aren't doing broadway and it was very last minute, so get over yourselves." I cracked up at the end where everyone has the flu thanks to Dan and Cereno bends his fake nose and Jackie sneezes so hard her wig falls off and the actor goes: "Look a token of her love." You could tell everyone couldn't keep a straight face on that one. Also, continuing of Leon: "You need to do your job and stop walking out Roseanne." Yeah, anyone else would have told her to pack her bags. Leon was such on an odd character from being upset he was the manager at the cafe to being: "I don't know how to do anything, please help me Roseanne." 

[Giuseppe]

Guys, when DID Nancy first appear? I swear I've watched every episode umpteen times on every channel that airs it, but I can never seem to pinpoint her first appearance.

[chocolatine]

15 minutes ago, Giuseppe said:

Guys, when DID Nancy first appear? I swear I've watched every episode umpteen times on every channel that airs it, but I can never seem to pinpoint her first appearance.

I think it was the episode where Arnie and Nancy invite Roseanne and Dan to go to Vegas with them. Arnie has mentioned Nancy many times in earlier episodes, but this is the first time she appeared. Sandra Bernhard's IMDB page seems to confirm that.

Edited January 25, 2018 by chocolatine

[Giuseppe]

8 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I think it was the episode where Arnie and Nancy invite Roseanne and Dan to go to Vegas with them. Arnie has mentioned Nancy many times in earlier episodes, but this is the first time she appeared. Sandra Bernhard's IMDB page seems to confirm that.

Ah, ok. Everytime I see that episode, I think we've already been introduced to her and I missed it. Makes sense now that I think about it. Thanks Chocolatine.

[JakeyJokes]

On 1/22/2018 at 5:15 PM, Dee said:

That's one of the reasons I loved Anne Marie & Bonnie. They brought balance to Roseanne's circle of friends.

When it was just Roseanne, Jackie & Crystal, Rosie was usually stuck babysitting neurotic Jackie and/or constantly placating sadsack Crystal.

Once wry Anne Marie & earthy Bonnie were fully brought into the fold, Roseanne finally had girlfriends who felt more like equals.

"Why Jackie Becomes a Trucker" and "Bingo" are some of my favorite episodes because we see them as a group having girls' night, and they're completely believable as a group. I love when the show allowed Roseanne to get her comeuppance, like when Annemarie and Bonnie refuse to give her a ride home after Crystal ditches her at bingo!

[qtpye]

I just saw the one where Dan is upset that his mother is mentally ill and has to be institutionalized.  He figures out that his father has been protecting his mother all these years and goes down in despair because he can not stand the ideas that she was not some sort of perfect mom who was just a victim of his father.  He also goes over to Crystal's house drunk and terrorizes her.

1. Goodman is usually so pitch perfect as Dan, but this episode was the first time I could see the acting.  He really was not a convincing drunk.
2. This episode had him cruelly sniping to Roseanne, implying that she was not half the mother his mother was.  When did he have a problem with Roseanne's parenting? He always seemed to love her wise cracking nature and never had any complaints before.
3. When did Dan have a vision of his mother being so perfect?  It did not seem to be the case when she visited for Thanksgiving.  He actually thought his father being gone a lot was enough to drive her to the mental institution?
4. It almost seemed like they just wanted to have this episode to echo back to previous dramatic episode that were excellent (Dan getting locked up for beating Jackie's abuser), but the writing was just not as crisp.
5. Goodman seemed uncomfortable and it was not just his character going through a hard time.  It was like he really could not wrap his head around Dan's behavior either.

[ridethemaverick]

I always wondered why Ed was still paying alimony after all those years. 

[Browncoat]

9 hours ago, ridethemaverick said:

I always wondered why Ed was still paying alimony after all those years. 

Alimony used to go either until the recipient died or remarried.

[anna0852]

Yeah the rationale behind alimony tended to be that a woman would have a much harder time supporting herself upon the end of a marriage. Careers were more limited and job training less available. Of course Dan's annoyance and anger has been that Ed isn't paying his alimony

[Bastet]

18 hours ago, qtpye said:

This episode had him cruelly sniping to Roseanne, implying that she was not half the mother his mother was.  When did he have a problem with Roseanne's parenting?

In that wonderfully brutal fight in the season eight finale (after the heart attack, when it turns out he's not doing any of the things he's supposed to do to protect himself against having another one) - he calls the girls failures, and says it's because Roseanne failed as a mother.

(Of course, with that turning out to just be part of the book, that wasn't something he actually said, but something Roseanne wrote him as saying - that fight becomes even more intense to me when I look back on it through that lens, as Roseanne working through her own doubts about herself as a wife and mother in the aftermath of Dan's death - and, depending on what the revival keeps and doesn't keep from the "some of this was fiction" reveal, who knows what its status will ultimately be.  But, at the time, that's when their gripe with each other's parenting - namely, her doing/having to do the bulk of it - reached its apogee.)

Edited February 3, 2018 by Bastet

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

In that wonderfully brutal fight in the season eight finale (after the heart attack, when it turns out he's not doing any of the things he's supposed to do to protect himself against having another one) - he calls the girls failures, and says it's because Roseanne failed as a mother.

(Of course, with that turning out to just be part of the book, that wasn't something he actually said, but something Roseanne wrote him as saying - that fight becomes even more intense to me when I look back on it through that lens, as Roseanne working through her own doubts about herself as a wife and mother in the aftermath of Dan's death - and, depending on what the revival keeps and doesn't keep from the "some of this was fiction" reveal, who knows what its status will ultimately be.  But, at the time, that's when their gripe with each other's parenting - namely, her doing/having to do the bulk of it - reached its apogee.)

The odd thing is that really only Becky was the failure.  They always thought Becky was going to be a success story and were horribly disappointed at the direction of her life.  Except for getting pregnant a bit young, I thought Darlene was doing better then expected with graduating writing school (I think she had a decent job, but I am not sure).

It was also interesting that Becky, who always seemed pretty driven when she was a kid, seemed to lack the drive and focus to complete Community college.  She could have had a decent career with an Associate's degree and then could have gotten financial help to transfer to a four year university.  It was very silly when they had that episode when it was all but assumed she was going to be a doctor, when she did not seem to able to be able to finish one year at Community.

[Dee]

Becky wasn't really a failure though.

Sure, Becky didn't attend college as she'd originally hoped, but she held down a steady job and had a relatively stable & supportive marriage with a man who adored her.

In that regard she was much like Roseanne. Neither achieved their original dreams, but they could've been doing a LOT worse.

And I hate the retcon of Darlene suddenly being a Super Student. It felt like a blatant attempt by the show to make Sara Gilbert the 'star' at Lecy's expense.

[peacheslatour]

On 1/16/2018 at 4:03 PM, chocolatine said:

100%. I hated every second Nancy was on screen. I know Sandra Bernhard is a famous comedienne, but the Nancy character didn't work at all in the context of the show.

I hated every second that Fred was on the show. He was such a prissy stick in the mud.

[CherryAmes]

26 minutes ago, Dee said:

Becky wasn't really a failure though.

Maybe failure is a harsh way to describe Becky but living in a trailer park with the dumbest man who ever walked the earth isn't exactly screaming success either.   I hated that stupid storyline though where she is suddenly going to be a doctor and Mark is feeling like she thinks he isn't good enough for her.  He wasn't good enough for her but it wasn't because she was somehow going to totally turn her life around and become a doctor!  Just so stupid.   Can someone refresh my memory - wasn't this the same storyline that had Roseanne taking Mark's side and telling Becky to settle for what she had?  Or am I totally misremembering this?

Edited February 3, 2018 by CherryAmes

[Bastet]

I think Becky Howser, M.D. was a nice illustration of how getting a college degree and what having one meant was largely a foreign concept to these people - something they saw on TV, not in the lives of the people they associated with.  Becky started talking about going to college, like she'd originally planned to do, and said she might want to be an EMT, physical therapist, or something like that, and in Mark's mind that translated to she was going to become a doctor and leave him.  And then everyone snowballed it from there.  I'm so glad they had Lecy for that episode, and there was some good stuff building with Becky's discontentment, but then they couldn't get her for the Disney World episodes, and we were back to Sarah's unambitious version of the character.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Becky started talking about going to college, like she'd originally planned to do, and said she might want to be an EMT, physical therapist, or something like that, and in Mark's mind that translated to she was going to become a doctor and leave him.

That's exactly what happened. She never said anything about being a doctor.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

Becky wasn't really a failure though.

Sure, Becky didn't attend college as she'd originally hoped, but she held down a steady job and had a relatively stable & supportive marriage with a man who adored her.

In that regard she was much like Roseanne. Neither achieved their original dreams, but they could've been doing a LOT worse.

And I hate the retcon of Darlene suddenly being a Super Student. It felt like a blatant attempt by the show to make Sara Gilbert the 'star' at Lecy's expense.

That was the heartbreak.  Roseanne always assumed that Becky would be the one to do better then her mother.  Young Becky was ambitious and stated in the episode that DJ won the spelling bee, that she did not want to end up like her mother and that is why she worked hard to get good grades.  The truth was she did not end up like her mother, she ended up worse.  Dan and Roseanne at around the same age were able to to buy a house, which did not seem possible for Mark and Becky.

I did not understand how the character lost her ambition and did not continue with her studies after she got married.

[JAYJAY1979]

41 minutes ago, qtpye said:

That was the heartbreak.  Roseanne always assumed that Becky would be the one to do better then her mother.  Young Becky was ambitious and stated in the episode that DJ won the spelling bee, that she did not want to end up like her mother and that is why she worked hard to get good grades.  The truth was she did not end up like her mother, she ended up worse.  Dan and Roseanne at around the same age were able to to buy a house, which did not seem possible for Mark and Becky.

I did not understand how the character lost her ambition and did not continue with her studies after she got married.

Oddly.. Becky had drive.. but always thought more with emotion then with sound reasoning.  When Mark gets a job that made for him moving to Minneapolis, she opts to marry him without seeing if a long distance relationship could have worked (and maybe with the downturn in her parents income.. could have gotten financial aid/scholarships for college out of state).

On the other hand, when Darlene became pregnant and proposed to David.. she was very practical with her reasoning for getting married... that she would be under David's insurance, that she would be doing free lance copy write jobs as she finished school, etc.  She was so practical, that it was kind of scary.. it even amazed Roseanne.

[Dee]

Becky never really lost her ambition. Her priorities simply changed. That happens in life. She didn't stop wanting more, she just temporarily put her dreams on hold to support her husband.

In fact, once Mark is working for the city and they're settled in the trailer park, she decides to reassert her own dreams.

She's not even overly ashamed about her choices, until, as usual, Darlene snidely ridicules her & the rest of the family schemes to make her feel worse to suit their own agendas. Sure, she is somewhat depressed, but it's not out of proportion for that particular time in her life imo.

Becky & Mark not being able to buy a house doesn't mean they are/were worse off than Dan & Roseanne. As times changed, so do prices. A house in the early 70s is not going to cost the same as a house in the early 90s. Just like how now a 'nuclear' family can no longer exist on a single income the way they could in the 50s.

And, if anything, Roseanne should understand how a parents expectations can clash with their children's priorities very well, given that particular issue was a huge crux of contention between Bev and both Roseanne and Jackie for most of their adult lives.

Edited February 4, 2018 by Dee

[qtpye]

Quote

And I hate the retcon of Darlene suddenly being a Super Student. It felt like a blatant attempt by the show to make Sara Gilbert the 'star' at Lecy's expense.

Quote

Oddly.. Becky had drive.. but always thought more with emotion then with sound reasoning.  When Mark gets a job that made for him moving to Minneapolis, she opts to marry him without seeing if a long distance relationship could have worked (and maybe with the downturn in her parents income.. could have gotten financial aid/scholarships for college out of state).

On the other hand, when Darlene became pregnant and proposed to David.. she was very practical with her reasoning for getting married... that she would be under David's insurance, that she would be doing free lance copy write jobs as she finished school, etc.  She was so practical, that it was kind of scary.. it even amazed Roseanne.

If you look back on the series, it seemed like they were saying that Backy worked hard, but at the end bad choices derailed her, however Darlene had natural raw talent, and that allowed her to escape the cycle of dead end jobs and financial instability.  It probably does not seem fair, but might actually pan out in a real world type of way.

[anna0852]

The reason I would consider Becky a failure is that she spent at least 2 years in Minneapolis and undertook apparently no further job training. What was she doing while Mark was working? When she returns to Landford it's quite some time before we see her reenter the workforce and when we do it's to wait tables at a Hooters knock off. In all that time she never racked up some community college credits? Attended any trade school programs? Did we ever even hear mention of her being employed in Minneapolis? Was there any job history or experience in her background?

[CherryAmes]

It's been awhile since I've watched Roseanne but my memory of Becky is that she was a lot of talk - big dreams but no real effort made to make those dreams come true, certainly once she made the choice to run off with Mark anyhow.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Dan and Roseanne at around the same age were able to to buy a house, which did not seem possible for Mark and Becky.

Yes, but they were able to buy that house because Roseanne's parents gave them the down payment. Roseanne and Dan were in no position to give Becky and Mark that kind of money. And as Dee said upthread, times change and housing prices in the early seventies were way different than housing prices in the nineties.

[chocolatine]

29 minutes ago, CherryAmes said:

It's been awhile since I've watched Roseanne but my memory of Becky is that she was a lot of talk - big dreams but no real effort made to make those dreams come true, certainly once she made the choice to run off with Mark anyhow.

I agree. I remember the fit she pitched when she found out that her parents didn't have a college fund for her. If she had been as smart as everyone said she was, she would have (a) figured out on her own that her family was living paycheck to paycheck, and (b) applied for scholarships/financial aid, taken out student loans, and gone to an affordable state school. Millions of people put themselves through school without their parents' help.

Edited February 4, 2018 by chocolatine

[anna0852]

To me I feel Darlene is more successful because while she drifted as a kid (when she was supposed to!), once she once she figured out what it was she wanted to do then she pursued it and worked at it. And didn't just say something vague like 'I want to be a writer'. But she figured a way to use that talent and that desire in a practical manner. And when roadblocks came up, such as getting pregnant, she found ways to move forward and continue pursuing those dreams. Becky on the other hand derailed herself at 17 and never seems to go back.

[CherryAmes]

23 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I agree. I remember the fit she pitched when she found out that her parents didn't have a college fund for her.

I hated Becky in those episodes.  I think, in part, because those episodes struck very close to home for me.  My husband had gone through a job loss with all the worry and angst that went with that.  The very last thing we would have needed was a bratty teenager screaming in our faces that we'd ruined her life!  I can agree that the financial problems the Connors were going through at that specific moment in time was down to bad choices made by Dan but to throw that in his face the way she did was unforgivable to me.  Especially when her big solution was to run off with Mark and basically do nothing - I think she got her GED, and that was about it.  She had options she could have explored but instead they turned Becky into a selfish bitch.

[peacheslatour]

"B..but I luurve him!" No smart woman throws her future away because they love some dude. She wasn't smart she was just a suck up.

[AnnieBeez]

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

"B..but I luurve him!" No smart woman throws her future away because they love some dude. She wasn't smart she was just a suck up.

Plenty of smart women do. Ambitious women don't. Maybe. 

I think Darlene was smart early in the show. She just wasn't motivated. Like anna0852 said, once she found her passion she went for it. I don't think there was a retcon for Darlene. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by PuhLeeze
hadn't finished thought

[Dee]

Darlene wasn't smart early in the show. She wasn't underachieving because she lacked motivation. She struggled with the material & was disruptive in class. In fact, Darlene used to regularly ridicule Becky for liking school.

And even later, in high school, Becky was doing her homework for her.

However the show decided Darlene was a savant during Brain Dead Poets society & gave her a constant Get Out Of Jail Free card when it came to school.

Edited February 5, 2018 by Dee

[JAYJAY1979]

I think Darlene was smart, she just didn't excel in a structured classroom.  I recall in the third season episode where Roseanne was talking to Darlene about expectations, good grades, etc... Darlene said that if her and Becky were left out in the middle of nowhere... Darlene would find her way home, but poor Becky wouldn't.  So even in season 3, it was hinted that Darlene was smart.. just not in the traditional book smart sort of way (i.e. wasn't motivated )

[Bastet]

Yeah, Becky was book smart, and she also believed the narrative that all you had to do to get into college was get good grades.  So when she hit the stumbling block of no college fund, she crawled into a hollow log and died like Darlene predicted. 

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, Becky was book smart, and she also believed the narrative that all you had to do to get into college was get good grades.  So when she hit the stumbling block of no college fund, she crawled into a hollow log and died like Darlene predicted. 

If Becky were so smart like they wanted us to believe, how she did not notice that her parents were constantly struggling to pay their bills? People who send their kids to college don't generally get their electricity shut off. Even if Dan hadn't have lost his business there is no way they could have afforded college. Why wasn't she checking with colleges to find out how much tuition was? I don't remember her parents ever telling her there was college money so why did she assume that she didn't have to contribute to her own education? In other words she was brown nosing suck up who really wasn't very bright.

[anna0852]

I think a lot of Becky's ambition centered around the idea of getting out of Lanford. She just didn't think through the practicalities. And marrying Mark then presented her with the goal of leaving so she jumped at it. Darlene I think was much better at thinking long-term and planning for her future. Like when David showed up at her window as his parents were divorcing and wanting to run away rather than stay with his mother. Darlene was adamant that bolting for New York without having been accepted to school and without any money with a terrible idea, even though neither of them wanted to stick around landford.

[Bastet]

22 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I don't remember her parents ever telling her there was college money

We never saw it, but we learned they'd told her they had a college fund for her (just not how much was in it).  That scene where she sits down to fill out her paperwork and they reveal they'd drained her fund was great on multiple levels, including how it revealed that not one of these people knew how the whole thing worked - one of the reasons she'd bought the narrative all she had to do to go to college was get good grades is that's exactly what they'd told her.  And how fucked up our system is that someone in their financial situation still has too much money to qualify for full financial aid to a public college, but that's a whole other rant.

22 hours ago, anna0852 said:

She just didn't think through the practicalities.

What's so frustrating - although, admittedly, typical - about her winding up not going to college is that originally she did consider the practicalities.  After first asking Mark to stay in Lanford with her rather than taking the Minneapolis job, she came to her senses after talking to Darlene and was heading off to tell him to go ahead and go (without her).  Then she has that ugly fight with Dan and winds up going with Mark, but with the plan to get her GED and then go to community college in Minneapolis instead of Lanford.  It's still dumb as all hell to get married that young, but the original plan had some merit.

Edited February 7, 2018 by Bastet

[CandysWrapRoom]

19 hours ago, Bastet said:

We never saw it, but we learned they'd told her they had a college fund for her (just not how much was in it).  That scene where she sits down to fill out her paperwork and they reveal they'd drained her fund was great on multiple levels, including how it revealed that not of these people knew how the whole thing worked - one of the reasons she'd bought the narrative all she had to do to go to college was get good grades is that's exactly what they'd told her.  And how fucked up our system is that someone in their financial situation still has too much money to qualify for full financial aid to a public college, but that's a whole other rant.

Exactly.  You don't know what you don't know.  None of those people had any clue about any of it - and from my experience that was very accurate.  I'm a first generation college grad and lived with a single mom who made just over the threshold for full financial aid.  Becky's experience was very similar to mine.  I carry about 20K in student loans 17 years after I graduated because the APR is 8% and I can't get ahead of them.  Good times.  

[TheLastKidPicked]

Reading the posts on these last few pages shows that Dan and Roseanne let the kids down in one respect:  Everybody made it seem as if either you went to college, or you were stuck at a dead end job your whole career.

I wish Dan would have stepped in and said,  "Mark, you would make a great firefighter.   It's a steady job with great benefits and if you enjoy it and stick with it, you can build a good career out of it."

And Roseanne could have said,  "Becky, with your good grades as proof that you can track and keep up with projects, you would make a kick-ass office manager.  You're young enough to understand these new computers and fax machines, and you could get on with a growing company and do pretty well."

I was happy when Dan did eventually make that realization after he saw how well Mark was doing at the city garage.

Edited February 7, 2018 by TheLastKidPicked

[peacheslatour]

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 wish Dan would have stepped in and said,  "Mark, you would make a great firefighter.   It's a steady job with great benefits and if you enjoy it and stick with it, you can build a good career out of it."

And Roseanne could have said,  "Becky, with your good grades as proof that you can track and keep up with projects, you would make a kick-ass office manager.  You're young enough to understand these new computers and fax machines, and you could get on with a growing company and do pretty well."

These are excellent points. Great post!

[chocolatine]

35 minutes ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

Reading the posts on these last few pages shows that Dan and Roseanne let the kids down in one respect:  Everybody made it seem as if either you went to college, or you were stuck at a dead end job your whole career.

I wish Dan would have stepped in and said,  "Mark, you would make a great firefighter.   It's a steady job with great benefits and if you enjoy it and stick with it, you can build a good career out of it."

And Roseanne could have said,  "Becky, with your good grades as proof that you can track and keep up with projects, you would make a kick-ass office manager.  You're young enough to understand these new computers and fax machines, and you could get on with a growing company and do pretty well."

I was happy when Dan did eventually make that realization after he saw how well Mark was doing at the city garage.

The catch-22 is that if Dan and Roseanne had known enough to say those things to their children, they would have known to apply that advice to themselves. Remember when Roseanne was offered a great office job, but turned it down because she had no computer experience? Someone more scrappy and enterprising would have spent the weekend at the nearest public library or community college to get enough knowledge to wing it in the beginning, and after a few weeks figured out the rest on her own.

Mark actually was a good mechanic, and would have been a great example of how someone without a college degree could still do well in life, but the show unfortunately decided to dumb him down and have him and Becky live in a trailer for cheap laughs.