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Original Flavor Season Talk: Dinner at Rodbell's

Rhondinella

By Rhondinella
in Roseanne [V]

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Aja

Aja

I really liked that particular episode. I think Roseanne was so over-the-top insistent on DJ following through with the play because she was horrified at the possibility that he was exhibiting a sort of inherent racism, since she thought of herself as the type of mother who made it perfectly clear that that sort of thinking is incorrect and unacceptable. Dan's attitude toward the whole situation was more relaxed, which made Roseanne even more insistent. She insisted the entire episode that "this attitude didn't come from me." Then, at the end, when Gina's father tries to come into the diner to talk to her, she is confronted directly with--and taken aback by--her own inherent racism. I thought it was a pretty poignant statement from a sitcom...but Roseanne was often way above the fray like that.

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AndySmith
AndySmith

The problems many of the families faced - being blue collar workers, living from paycheck to paycheck, trying to pursue old dreams via new business ventures, trying to start a business as way of escap

TheLastKidPicked
TheLastKidPicked

I gained a whole new level of respect for the show when they had Dan lose the bike shop.  It brought us back to EXACTLY why the show was groundbreaking when it premiered in 1988.  Unlike the other com

Aja
Aja

Part of that was the writing downslide, too. Mark started out as a rebellious young dude from a crappy home life who was absolutely capable of taking care of himself--knew a lot about cars, was a grea

Bastet

Bastet

I like that one, too, with Roseanne having to confront the subconscious prejudice that affected her reaction to that man.  It was a nice reminder how wide-reaching the effects of racism are, that we're all vulnerable to internalizing the bullshit with which we're bombarded and thus need to take a step back from time to time and do as Roseanne did here, asking ourselves the hard questions.  I think it's telling how many viewers got defensive, insisting she'd have reacted exactly the same way to a white man.

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Christina

Christina

It's the middle of the night, I have insomnia and several episodes of several shows to watch waiting for me, yet I had to watch the Roseanne episodes that dealt with Roseanne and Dan finding out Fisher was beating Jackie playing at 2 a.m. on CMT. That was an excellent hour of television, and two of my favorites, so I had to see if there was a forum here to announce it before I burst.

There was not a minute wasted, and it was so true to reality; from Roseanne insisting Jackie knew better than to be defending him since she worked as a cop, to Jackie having second thoughts and trying to delay the moving out, Roseanne's frustrations in trying to help someone in that victim head space, right up to Dan singing Jailhouse Rock as the credits roll. 

It's interesting how well Roseanne stands the test of time, when some of my other favorites from youth just haven't. I'll be watching and wonder why I liked it, but it probably involved only having 3 channels when the weather was good. 

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AndySmith

AndySmith

Quote

It's interesting how well Roseanne stands the test of time

The problems many of the families faced - being blue collar workers, living from paycheck to paycheck, trying to pursue old dreams via new business ventures, trying to start a business as way of escaping being poor, aiming for upward economic mobility, trying to improve one's lot in life via education, etc - are things that are just as relevant today as they were when the show was on.

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katha

katha

I think one of the things the show did that will always resonate is that they didn't peddle this myth of "if you just try hard enough, everything will work out fine." That's rare for sitcoms. There was a clear acknowledgement that if you don't come from money, if you don't have connections...it's tough to start a great career or lift yourself up into a higher socio-economic sphere. You might work hard, but that doesn't stop you from losing your job or stalling at an unsatisfactory level. That it got harder and harder to find stable jobs with benefits in the blue-collar sector also rang true. And not only in the blue-collar sector...

All of this is as relevant as ever and many people are struggling, so the show rings true.

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Dee

Dee

Jackie: "Roseanne, I know how to get you back in the holiday spirit."
Roseanne: "How?"
Jackie: "Let's decorate Nana Mary!"
Roseanne: "We can't do that. She's our grandmother. Don't you remember?"
Jackie: "Salad spinner!"
Roseanne: "I'll get the tinsel."
Bev: "Girls, stop that! You're being stupid and childish! Everyone knows you string lights from the top!"

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Maharincess

Maharincess

6 hours ago, Dee said:

Jackie: "Roseanne, I know how to get you back in the holiday spirit."
Roseanne: "How?"
Jackie: "Let's decorate Nana Mary!"
Roseanne: "We can't do that. She's our grandmother. Don't you remember?"
Jackie: "Salad spinner!"
Roseanne: "I'll get the tinsel."
Bev: "Girls, stop that! You're being stupid and childish! Everyone knows you string lights from the top!"

I read an interview with Shelly Winters and she said that really happened. She dozed off on the set and woke up all decorated.  

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BitterApple

BitterApple

On 10/2/2016 at 11:42 PM, katha said:

I think one of the things the show did that will always resonate is that they didn't peddle this myth of "if you just try hard enough, everything will work out fine." That's rare for sitcoms. There was a clear acknowledgement that if you don't come from money, if you don't have connections...it's tough to start a great career or lift yourself up into a higher socio-economic sphere. You might work hard, but that doesn't stop you from losing your job or stalling at an unsatisfactory level. That it got harder and harder to find stable jobs with benefits in the blue-collar sector also rang true. And not only in the blue-collar sector...

All of this is as relevant as ever and many people are struggling, so the show rings true.

That's why I hated when the Conners started becoming upwardly mobile followed by the lottery win. The Middle America struggle and tough times was what gave the show it's realness and charm. 

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SparklesBitch

SparklesBitch

I had a weird day, so I came home and watched the episode An Officer and a Gentleman because, well....God, I love that episode....and now I'm going to ramble all about why.

Jackie has always been my favorite, so it makes me happy anytime Laurie Metcalf gets to be front and center. I love that Jackie defends herself to both Roseanne and Crystal, that yes, she really can handle three kids for a few days, thank you very much.....and then she totally knocks it out of the park. Her conversation with Crystal in the beginning always makes me smile, especially asking her where her accent came from, and then the whole "my father came from Arkansas" thing. The look on LM's face absolutely kills me.

I like that Jackie gets to play housewife for a short time, sort of living out her fantasy of what it would be like to have her own husband and kids to take care of. She and Dan are both getting something they need out of this experience....she gets to be needed, and he gets to feel special. Don't get me wrong, I adore Dan and Roseanne's relationship, and it's not that I think Roseanne should be waiting on him hand and foot, but it's clear he enjoys the extra attention and extra effort put in....which Jackie enjoys doing because she doesn't have to live the everyday reality of a husband and three kids. She listens to him talk about work and fulfills his requests at dinner (applesauce, more potatoes) before he even has a chance to ask. She gets to pretend for a little while. The little details are awesome too...I love the fancily folded green napkin! It cracks me up that she knows how to get the kids to help her out too....and that Dan's impressed that she bribed them with cash.

She and John Goodman are fantastic together, and I love it when we get to explore more of their relationship. The scene with them in the kitchen cleaning up near the end is one of my favorites of the whole series.

Dan is truly grateful for everything she has done for them while Roseanne has been gone, genuinely compliments her, and tells her she deserves better than the kind of men she dates. I like that she's skeptical of his compliments at first because he rarely gives them....and I feel like Jackie gets crapped on a lot in general and it rings so true to me that she's so unfamiliar with being complimented that she has to warm up to the idea that it's real.

Also, I like the slight undercurrent of flirtation that happens between them. It's just enough to be warm and sweet without sliding into actually dangerous territory. I like the playfulness with which they discuss the past, and it clearly means the world to Jackie that Dan remembers when they first met. Her relationships with men are transient at best, so having Dan, who she has known and admired in a sense for 15 years (didn't she tell someone at some point that she considered him a god?) remember that time and remember her is touching.

When they're having a beer together at the kitchen table and Dan tells her that she's smart and fun and nice-looking and she tries to brush it off and asks if he means it in a good way and he says yes and she just gives him this wide-eyed, cautiously hopeful look? Perfectly done, all of it. LM has such big, expressive eyes and she uses them to act the crap out of that whole scene. Well, that one and also the one at the front door right before Jackie leaves when she sort of clutches her heart and thanks Dan after he tells her his memory of her. LM and JG are both such pros and I love watching them play off each other.

Did I mention that I really love this episode? =)

Other random things I like about this one:

Darlene and her "how long do you think the big R will stay south?" never gets old. Also, Becky and Jackie and the whole "experienced woman" chat. And lastly, the happy wistfulness with which Jackie watches Roseanne's family hug her at the very end. Good stuff, show.

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BitterApple

BitterApple

40 minutes ago, SparklesBitch said:

She and John Goodman are fantastic together, and I love it when we get to explore more of their relationship. The scene with them in the kitchen cleaning up near the end is one of my favorites of the whole series.

 

Laurie and John had great chemistry.

I was watching the episode today where Bev gave Roseanne and Jackie the ten grand followed by the announcement that she was moving to Lanford. I know Bev was one of those mothers who could grate your last nerve, but I never understood why Roseanne and Jackie were so mean to her. I mean damn, your lights were cut off a day ago and now you want spit on the woman who's bailing you out of a financial mess? I also thought it was crappy that Roseanne wouldn't let Bev buy Darlene the CD player as an early birthday present. It's not like any of the children were rolling in luxury goods. Life had been pretty shitty for that entire year, so why not let the kid have something nice?

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Bastet

Bastet

Something I noticed when I did a marathon watch of all nine seasons in a fairly short period of time is that Bev's initial reaction to virtually everything Roseanne or Jackie does is negative; seriously, there is about a 99% rate of reflex negativity.  But despite the fact she's hypercritical (and so passive-aggressive she could teach courses on it at the graduate level), they don't become mean to her until she moves to Lanford and they have to deal with her on a regular basis.  Before then, Roseanne limits herself to sarcastic remarks -- and runs a lot of interference between Bev and Jackie.  She also engages in a lot of quick little affectionate touches to Bev.  Things change when Bev is a constant presence, and Bev is every bit an equal combatant in that trio; she's no innocent victim of bullying, ungrateful daughters. 

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SparklesBitch

SparklesBitch

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

 I also thought it was crappy that Roseanne wouldn't let Bev buy Darlene the CD player as an early birthday present. It's not like any of the children were rolling in luxury goods. Life had been pretty shitty for that entire year, so why not let the kid have something nice?

I agree with this part, however....

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

Something I noticed when I did a marathon watch of all nine seasons in a fairly short period of time is that Bev's initial reaction to virtually everything Roseanne or Jackie does is negative; seriously, there is about a 99% rate of reflex negativity.  But despite the fact she's hypercritical (and so passive-aggressive she could teach courses on it at the graduate level), they don't become mean to her until she moves to Lanford and they have to deal with her on a regular basis.  Before then, Roseanne limits herself to sarcastic remarks -- and runs a lot of interference between Bev and Jackie.  She also engages in a lot of quick little affectionate touches to Bev.  Things change when Bev is a constant presence, and Bev is every bit an equal combatant in that trio; she's no innocent victim of bullying, ungrateful daughters. 

Yep, my thoughts exactly. By the time they started actually being mean to her, I think she deserved everything she got.

Speaking of Bev being passive-aggressive, I remember the first time she really made me mad was when she gave Roseanne a giant guilt trip for sending them to a motel in the first Thanksgiving episode. I mean sure, Roseanne could have broken the news earlier, but Bev made me want to smack her when she shook her fists in the air and was all "I HATE motels!" and moaning about how she of course wouldn't sleep all night. Ugh. That pretty much turned me against her as a character and my opinion of her just got worse from there. I guess getting such a strong reaction out of your audience is the mark of a great actress! =)

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BitterApple

BitterApple

One of my favorite episodes was on this morning, the one where Bev gets arrested drunk driving and has to go to AA. The jokes in this one were hilarious especially when they were at the police station and Jackie tells Roseanne to pretend that they didn't get the phone call after finding out Bev was in jail for DUI and not speeding like they'd originally thought. Also when Bev was in the kitchen telling Darlene to beware of herpes and Good Time Charlies. When the writing for this show was on, it was an absolute masterpiece.

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Bastet

Bastet

2 hours ago, FairyDusted said:

"Can I get that in wallet size?"

I love that, too (about Bev's mug shot), and when she asks, "Okay, if I can't have the picture, can you just give me the numbers off the bottom, because I want to play the lotto."

And, of course, the Super Bowl party without beer.  "She's in there!  Bev.  Beverage.  Non-alcoholic Beverage is in there!"

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ItsHelloPattiagain

ItsHelloPattiagain

I'm enjoying more Roseanne on a random channel called LAFFS. Last night they had the one on where  Roseanne is pregnant and insists on staying in bed on doctor's orders while Fred asks Bev to babysit for little Andy. Jackie has that scene where she's telling Bev how good she is with Andy and what was wrong with her that Bev didn't treat her the same way. Jackie's voice just breaks my heart. 

Quote

Best episode ever is on right now, A Stash From The Past.

"Birds, birds, birds!!!!" "Am I shrinking - is this the sink"?  "WHATDOYOUWANTDJ??"

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DXD526

DXD526

...or when DJ can't find his sleeping bag, and Roseanne tells him it's 'outside in the yard in that building where your dad always is with the tools and the car?' Because in her messed-up state she couldn't think of 'garage'!

Isn't that Roseanne pregnant episode the one where Bev tells Jackie she was a bad mother? When Jackie tells Roseanne about it, Roseanne looks confused, and is like, "You mean the way Shaft was a bad mother?" Always cracks me up!

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TheGreenKnight

TheGreenKnight

One of my favorite episodes is the Thanksgiving episode where Roseanne tells Bev to use reverse psychology on Jackie so she'll marry Fred, just for the very ending when their grandmother reveals Bev was knocked up before marriage with Roseanne and then Bev has a breakdown and runs raving out into the yard. "I'm all alone!"

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Dee

Dee

2 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

One of my favorite episodes is the Thanksgiving episode where Roseanne tells Bev to use reverse psychology on Jackie so she'll marry Fred, just for the very ending when their grandmother reveals Bev was knocked up before marriage with Roseanne and then Bev has a breakdown and runs raving out into the yard. "I'm all alone!"

Which leads directly into one of my favorite exchanges

Roseanne: "I'm going after her, Dan. Release the dogs!"

Fred: "You okay, Jackie?"

Jackie: "Outta my way, Fred! I'm not missing this!"

Dan: "Yeah, Fred, we're quite a family. Now that you've gotten one of us pregnant, it's too late to escape!" *insane laugh*

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SparklesBitch

SparklesBitch

I was rewatching again because I needed some lighter fare after finally finishing up the fantastic Black Mirror, and once again stumbled upon one of my favorite Becky/Darlene exchanges:

Becky: "Why don't you just kiss my butt?"
Darlene: "Well, haul it on over here, Jumbo!"

It just never gets old. =)

Secondly, I forgot how much it hurts my heart when Becky and Mark take out Dan's bike without permission and she acts like it's no big deal and Dan gives her the silent treatment over it, to the point of making a milkshake from himself and Darlene right in front of her. He's so angry and hurt that she'd do it to begin with and she's hurt that he won't talk to her, and you can feel for both of the characters and it punches me in the gut every time. I love that they make up through a handshake and a quick chat that feels genuine. I also love that Dan nearly shakes Becky's arm out of it's socket while being all silly because my grandfather used to do that sort of thing and it always made us kids laugh. It also cracks me up that Dan offering Becky a spoon to eat her milkshake with and her genuinely saying "thanks, dad" was too much sap for Darlene. Her "oh, gross" kills me.

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Bastet

Bastet

4 minutes ago, SparklesBitch said:

Dan gives her the silent treatment over it, to the point of making a milkshake from himself and Darlene right in front of her.

"Thick thick?"

Such a beautiful moment; we'd seen Becky give Roseanne the silent treatment, with how both parties were right and wrong and how hurtful the punishment was, and here we see the same thing instigated by a parent. 

And, yes, I love that the reconciliation is a milkshake and a goofy handshake to accompany a brief conversation, plus a sarcastic remark by a disgusted Darlene, rather than some overwrought I love you, you love me blubbering.

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SparklesBitch

SparklesBitch

18 minutes ago, Bastet said:

And, yes, I love that the reconciliation is a milkshake and a goofy handshake to accompany a brief conversation, plus a sarcastic remark by a disgusted Darlene, rather than some overwrought I love you, you love me blubbering.

This is definitely one of the many reasons why, in my opinion anyway, Roseanne is so much better than something like Full House ever was. 

17 minutes ago, Dee said:

Speaking of Dan & Becky moments, him silently watching her as she rocks out to Technotronic will never not be funny.

Yes!! Between her totally rocking out and Dan's range of amused expressions while watching her, that scene is a gem! 

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Aja

Aja

13 hours ago, Bastet said:

And, yes, I love that the reconciliation is a milkshake and a goofy handshake to accompany a brief conversation, plus a sarcastic remark by a disgusted Darlene, rather than some overwrought I love you, you love me blubbering.

I love how it cuts directly from the reconciliation in the bedroom to a close-up of Becky's eyes popping out of her head trying to suck the thick-thick milkshake through the straw.

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SparklesBitch

SparklesBitch

(edited)

I'm still rewatching, and one scene between Becky and Darlene that I always play on repeat is when they say goodbye to each other when Becky leaves with Mark after they get married: 

Darlene: "I'll miss you"

Becky: "Will you call?"

Darlene: "Promise. I love you, Becky."

Becky: "I love you, Darlene."

Darlene: "Did you ever know that you're my hero?"

Becky: "You are the wind beneath my wings."

Between Darlene's impish expression when she quotes the song to Becky's grin to Roseanne jumping in and telling them to knock it off even though she's clearly amused, the whole scene always makes me grin. It's just so real and perfect. 

DJ cracks me up too when he barely looks at Becky and just says "see ya!" as he runs down the stairs and under Roseanne's arm and out of the room. It's every little brother reaction ever....mine both pretty much did the same thing when I left for college a million years ago. 

Also, it makes me giggle when both Roseanne AND Jackie each secretly give Becky a ring from great grandma Harris. 

On another note, I'm not a parent and therefore can't even begin to imagine what it must feel like to have your brightest kid run off and elope with some guy you don't like at 17, but this whole arc is pretty masterfully written and acted, in my opinion.....I can clearly see where Becky, Roseanne and Dan are each coming from in this situation and why they each react like they do to everything falling apart. I feel for each of them. 

I love this family and this show! 

Edited to mention that I keep forgetting to say how much I've been always loved the dark humor on this show whenever things get tough for them. 

For instance, Dan complaining that without electricity he can take a bath but he can't throw the toaster in with him. Or on the day he closes the shop, him telling Jackie that it's the kind of day that starts with a hearty breakfast and ends with the radio announcer saying "....before he turned the gun on himself." and then complaining to Roseanne that if she doesn't make breakfast he won't have the strength to reload. 

It always makes me laugh because that's exactly the sort of thing I say when my life sucks and I got it from my family, and it's fun to see it reflected onscreen. I learned early that dark humor makes things a little bit more bearable....=) 

Edited by SparklesBitch
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Bastet

Bastet

That good-bye between Becky and Darlene is perfect.  And the extra comedic relief of D.J. tossing a "Bye!" over his shoulder as he runs past ("I hope you know how hard that was for him") is great, too - as was how excited he was to see her when she came home.  It was so nice seeing a family on TV who clearly loved each other without having to speak as if they were Hallmark cards come to life.  Sarcasm and snark among families is a lot more prevalent on TV now than it was then; the "shouty" sitcoms of the '70s that attempted to inject some realism into the presentation of family life were refreshing, and then there was a lot of gloss in the '80s, with some beautiful exceptions like this show.

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