Past Seasons Thread

[Tatum]

2 minutes ago, cincivic said:

One of favorite Wes moments was when he called out Evan on The Ruins. After the Tonya and Veronica fight, the guys were sitting around and Evan was saying how they all have said things about Tonya. Wes chimes in and says "I haven't. Derrick hasn't. Cohutta hasn't. It has been you three." Or something to that effect. Love that. Also, Wes was the first one up to stop the fight and then Evan decided he needed to to be a good guy, too. Evan holding Tonya, afterwards, was laughable 

The effect though, was minimal, because Evan just rolled his eyes like Wes was being such a petulant brat, and all the sheeple on both teams went along with it because JEK was still the "in crowd". Everyone was happy to hang Veronica out to dry as the evil bitch who pushed Tonya too far and were happy enough to forget how much JEK bullied and humiliated her up to that point.

[choclatechip45]

Gauntlet 3 is one of my least favorite "middle seasons" t's just awful all around between the veterans team and Frank/Jillian being annoying. As someone who liked Johnny on his season of The Real World and his first two seasons of The Challenge this season was when he started being unlikeable. 

[kimbrchick]

We have Paramount + for a while and I got a little too excited that I could watch the old Challenge seasons. I watched them when they originally aired until it started being more people that I didn't recognize than I did. I forgot how toxic most of them are. The men are just awful sometimes. The way Wes talks to Casey on Fresh Meat, ugh. I'm on the Duel right now and I don't like how Beth was disqualified for ripping the flag. To me it looked like she was trying to get it off and it ripped and then she unclipped the carabiner right after. Could be editing but it just looked wrong.

I forgot how crazy Jo's early exit was from the Gauntlet II. Yikes.

I feel like some of these dudes over the years may have been on steroids by the way they're acting. I feel like I remember reading that it was a known thing or speculation or something. It's been many years so it's a bit blurred.

I can't wait to get to all the other memorable moments on other seasons. Johnny Bananas backpack certainly can't come soon enough. Big Easy almost dying at the final challenge. It will be upsetting to see Tonya on that infamous season. I agree with others on here that it went to far in some cases and production could have made it a more safe environment. I might post more feelings after I watch more.

[AncientNewbie]

I've been continuing my rewatch and I'm in the prime JEK years and...sigh. Not that a lot of guys from the era come off well by today's standards, but what a collection of douchey bro bros. I can believe the behavior, having been a college aged guy at that timeframe, but I'm still surprised MTV presented the people they did as the protagonists of the whole event.

[choclatechip45]

I hated The Miz back when he was a regular on The Challenge, however after watching these old challenge he wasn't as bad as JEK. He did some douchey things (Kendal freak out comes to mind). I'm sort of impressed how he tried to include the outsiders on his teams. 

[snarts]

Watched some of the Ruins, Fresh Meat II and now Rivals on Pluto this weekend.

You know what I'd love to see in the same format as All-Stars?  All one & done contestants.  The people who came on exactly one Challenge and then were never seen again. People like Carley, Pete, Noor, Jeremy, Colin, Lori, Jake, etc.  A few of them won and then were never seen again.

I just think it would be interesting to bring back some of the participants we don't every single year (stay home for once, Aneesa) especially those we got to know on Real World/Road Rules.

[Zima]

On 5/5/2021 at 2:27 PM, AncientNewbie said:

I've been continuing my rewatch and I'm in the prime JEK years and...sigh. Not that a lot of guys from the era come off well by today's standards, but what a collection of douchey bro bros. I can believe the behavior, having been a college aged guy at that timeframe, but I'm still surprised MTV presented the people they did as the protagonists of the whole event.

I hated them so much at the time, and had no idea why so many people loved them.  Ev was my hero for standing up to them on The Island, and then forcing them to put her on their boat to ensure that she won. 

[atlanticslide]

On 5/5/2021 at 2:27 PM, AncientNewbie said:

I've been continuing my rewatch and I'm in the prime JEK years and...sigh. Not that a lot of guys from the era come off well by today's standards, but what a collection of douchey bro bros. I can believe the behavior, having been a college aged guy at that timeframe, but I'm still surprised MTV presented the people they did as the protagonists of the whole event.

I remember finding them uncomfortable at the time, and when I rewatched these seasons recently, it was worse than I remembered. All three of Johnny, Evan, Kenny have a lot of funny moments and interviews, but I just don't know what TPTB were thinking using soundbite after soundbite of them being so horribly misogynistic. Like, how many times did they think we really needed to see one of JEK calling a female castmember fat, gross, whore, dumb, bitch who should get drowned or thrown off a cliff or buried by rocks or whatever else. Which is maybe why I view it worse now - it's not just that JEK were horrible, but that the editors and whoever else in production chose to constantly air so many of the disgusting things they said just makes TPTB look shitty too. 

[Jillibean]

On 5/10/2021 at 11:32 PM, atlanticslide said:

I remember finding them uncomfortable at the time, and when I rewatched these seasons recently, it was worse than I remembered. All three of Johnny, Evan, Kenny have a lot of funny moments and interviews, but I just don't know what TPTB were thinking using soundbite after soundbite of them being so horribly misogynistic. Like, how many times did they think we really needed to see one of JEK calling a female castmember fat, gross, whore, dumb, bitch who should get drowned or thrown off a cliff or buried by rocks or whatever else. Which is maybe why I view it worse now - it's not just that JEK were horrible, but that the editors and whoever else in production chose to constantly air so many of the disgusting things they said just makes TPTB look shitty too. 

I think the whole thing was a negative cycle. JEK were savvy people when it came to their own camera time--they saw which clips were being used and which soundbites were most successful, which in turn led them to give more of that on future seasons. And from what I remember, Kenny and Evan (I think not as much Johnny) were hugely popular with the tween demo MTV was courting at the time, so they showed those guys more, which in turn made people like them more (not any of us, obviously).  And then there's the rest of the cast, many of whom were incredibly enabling of that behavior including, as has been mentioned upthread, Evelyn when it wasn't being directed specifically at her. 

It was all bad at the time and even worse in retrospect, because the world has changed, society has become more aware, and many of the things that happened back then are even worse through 2021 vision. 

[choclatechip45]

If the Tonya incident didn't happen, Kenny would still be the face of The Challenge which is somewhat horrifying.

[AntFTW]

I just rewatched season 18 after completely forgetting what happened that season. Watching that season reminded me of Wes and Jordan's sausage fest on season 35. Jordan has the same personality today that Wes had back then. Wes was getting a taste of his own medicine 11-12 years later.

[millennium]

On 5/10/2021 at 6:36 PM, Zima said:

I hated them so much at the time, and had no idea why so many people loved them.  Ev was my hero for standing up to them on The Island, and then forcing them to put her on their boat to ensure that she won. 

"Fuck you, Johnny Bananas, and fuck your alliance" is quite possibly the greatest Challenge moment of all time.  I love Ev.

I never watched The Challenge until getting Paramount, never even heard of it before.  But someone at Casa Millennium was watching it every night at the height of the pandemic and I got hooked.

Since then I have watched Seasons 28-present, and 11-23 (just finished Battle of the Seasons last night). 

Watching the characters mature (or not, Josh) has been fascinating.   Conversely, it's wild to see the earliest appearances of characters that I only knew from later seasons.  For example, Battle of the Seasons is my earliest exposure to Zach.   I used to think his worst qualities were on display in his treatment of Jenna, but in Battle of the Seasons  I saw how maliciously he and Frank treated Sam.   I would like to chalk his behavior up to immaturity, because Wes treated Casey similarly back in Season 11 or 12 but as time went on Wes seemed to comport himself more civilly( so much that I have no qualms about really liking him now).    But Zach's misogyny seems to know no age.

Of course, the most poignant arc among the cast members has been that of CT and Diem.   I knew before ever "meeting" Diem that she was destined to die in 2014 (because CT brought up the anniversary of her death in a later season), which has made the experience of watching her savor each and every moment she had on The Challenge, whether competing, laughing, crying, dancing, or being in love with CT, so heartbreaking and inspirational. 

I know it's just a silly show and many of the cast members are acting out for attention, still there are some real and interesting stories to be enjoyed between blasts of the air horn.

Edited September 13, 2021 by millennium

[millennium]

3 minutes ago, millennium said:

 

argh

Edited September 13, 2021 by millennium
because after seven years i still get the edit button wrong

[AncientNewbie]

On 9/13/2021 at 6:17 AM, millennium said:

I know it's just a silly show and many of the cast members are acting out for attention, still there are some real and interesting stories to be enjoyed between blasts of the air horn.

 

I am what used to be known in less PC times as a "friendless loser" and I always overconnect with tv characters, and I have to say I have felt much the same way watching. It's like growing up with people and watching them mature (or not.) 

[millennium]

6 hours ago, AncientNewbie said:

 

I am what used to be known in less PC times as a "friendless loser" and I always overconnect with tv characters, and I have to say I have felt much the same way watching. It's like growing up with people and watching them mature (or not.) 

I know what you mean.   From what I can tell, a lot of fans dislike Jordan.   I guess because he's cocky, I don't know.   I know him from later seasons -- 35, maybe -- where he shamed and eliminated Josh  in the tug of war using just one hand and his brain.  How can you not admire someone who pulls that off (especially when the guy on the other end is Josh)?   Then there's the famous scene where Jordan hilariously imitated Turbo's walk, inducing a psychotic reaction from Turbo that got Turbo booted from the show (some say forever).  I just started watching Jordan's rookie season right now (Rivals II) where his determination and ability to overcome his handicap is impressing even vets like CT.  Perhaps Jordan does awful things in seasons I haven't seen yet but so far I still don't understand the hate.   I have heard it said that Jordan is currently suspended from the show because of things he said or posted in the past, not sure about the accuracy of the source though.  I hope his last appearance (the season where he lost his shit during Tori's elimination by Aneesa) doesn't turn out to be his final appearance.

Cara Maria's another one who's had quite an arc.  I liked her for a long time because she was a quirky girl who defiantly bucked her way into the upper ranks of competitors and became the bane of other mean girls on the show.   I actually cheered for her that time she ran to the top of the tower and won the whole shebang.  Then she hooked up with Paulie and became the meanest girl.  All downhill from there for me, but it was a memorable thing to watch.

And Sarah Rice.  Oh, Sarah, the Challenge gods do not like you and for what reason I have no idea.  On the Rivals II episode I watched last night, she was removed from the show for a second time through no fault of her own, just because she was hooked up with a lousy partner.   As she left she sobbed, "I just want a partner who wants to win" and my next thought, "Be careful what you wish for" because we all know how that turns out.

As Kyle often says, "I LOVE THIS SHOW!"

Edited September 17, 2021 by millennium

[lasu]

Perhaps Jordan does awful things in seasons I haven't seen yet but so far I still don't understand the hate.   I have heard it said that Jordan is currently suspended from the show because of things he said or posted in the past, not sure about the accuracy of the source though.  I hope his last appearance (the season where he lost his shit during Tori's elimination by Aneesa) doesn't turn out to be his final appearance.

This is really late response; I've been staying out of this thread mostly because I can't get the newest season yet.  But, while I don't hate Jordan, I don't love him either.  His suspension comes from his original season, when he got into a fight with Nia.  She (from what I remember) really was the one who instigated things, but the whole thing was very uncomfortable, and Jordan ended up doing an ape imitation at her (there might have been more to it than that, but that part I definitely remember because my immediate response was, "oh no."  She later basically molested him on a season of The Challenge.  Which earned her a suspension as well.

Spoiler

They are both cast on season three of All Stars.  Both of them have kind of come to other's defense.  She's said she doesn't think he meant to be racist, and he's said he doesn't think she's a chester molester.  I think they probably believe that, but I also think they are in a one hand washes the other situation, and I don't think it's a coincidence that their suspensions were apparently lifted in tandem.

 But I don't really care if he comes back or not, as long as this time he doesn't look like he's channeling Johnny Depp playing some weirdo Stephen King character.  

[choclatechip45]

I just rewatched Road Rules: All Stars pretty crazy to see the first season compared to now. Honestly, I would kind of love 5 former Real Worlders being stuck on a RV again. I would definitely watch. 

[lasu]

I was putting up my Christmas tree over the weekend, and somehow The Gauntlet 2 started playing on my Paramount+ and I couldn't find my remote, so whatever.  I really like these older, goofier challenges.  But I wanted to put down Christmas ornaments and go through the tv and punch Jeremy in his stupid sexuality-shaming face.  I don't give a shit that he didn't like Jodi, but he can get the fuck out of here with calling her a slut and telling her to go suck another dick.  So fucking gross.

[choclatechip45]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:33 AM, lasu said:

I was putting up my Christmas tree over the weekend, and somehow The Gauntlet 2 started playing on my Paramount+ and I couldn't find my remote, so whatever.  I really like these older, goofier challenges.  But I wanted to put down Christmas ornaments and go through the tv and punch Jeremy in his stupid sexuality-shaming face.  I don't give a shit that he didn't like Jodi, but he can get the fuck out of here with calling her a slut and telling her to go suck another dick.  So fucking gross.

I think you meant Danny....

 

I just finished Real World vs Road Rules. Ah I love these older seasons. I loved Janet/Jason. I sort of love how much The Real World team didn't care well except for Nathan.

[Tatum]

I've been watching lots of old seasons since re-signing up for Paramount Plus, and these people are still infuriating. The misogyny is just so awful, and these are from seasons in 2013 and beyond, so there really is NO excuse for it. Production absolutely egged these guys on, and the women were no better. One of the Rivals 2 episodes had a trivia challenge where the questions were contestant based, and the guys got asked who their (male) partner would consider to be the trashiest girl there. Like, why? Only CT refused to answer, but it was more to not alienate any of the women than honestly being gentlemanly.

 

And speaking of CT, his treatment of Anastasia was so despicable. He came right out and laughed to everyone about how he was using her to make Diem jealous. Anastasia was rightfully hurt and upset and CT mocked her to her face and refused to take any responsibility for how hurt and angry Anastasia was. I never thought he was particularly kind to anyone but a handful of people on the Challenge but this was really low even for him. And of course all the girls are laughing about stupid, slutty Anastasia really thinking CT cared about her. As if ALL of those girls hadn't been in the exact same position in previous shows.

 

Watching Free Agents and Nany deserves a smack in the face for saying that she doesn't want Dustin to hook up with Emilee because he deserves better than "some slut". Dustin was involved in porn but okay, I guess it's cool because he's not a woman.

 

It's amazing how you can be the cruelest person on this show but if you're not a woman who dared to have sex (or anything close) while filming it's no big deal. And instead of banding together and calling these guys out on their hypocrisy, they all turn on each other in their desire to be cool with the guys mocking them.

 

And I am SO over these phrases:

 

• "Have my back" in any iteration- can these idiots not think of a single other way to say that someone is not voting the way they want them to vote?
• "There's a target on my back"
• "No one deserves to be here more than me"- if you're invited, you all deserve to be here the same amount
• "I'm coming for you/you've woken a sleeping bear/ some other false bravado that is almost always untrue

Edited December 28, 2021 by Tatum

[Zima]

On 12/27/2021 at 6:24 PM, Tatum said:

And speaking of CT, his treatment of Anastasia was so despicable. He came right out and laughed to everyone about how he was using her to make Diem jealous. Anastasia was rightfully hurt and upset and CT mocked her to her face and refused to take any responsibility for how hurt and angry Anastasia was. I never thought he was particularly kind to anyone but a handful of people on the Challenge but this was really low even for him. And of course all the girls are laughing about stupid, slutty Anastasia really thinking CT cared about her. As if ALL of those girls hadn't been in the exact same position in previous shows.

 

Watching Free Agents and Nany deserves a smack in the face for saying that she doesn't want Dustin to hook up with Emilee because he deserves better than "some slut". Dustin was involved in porn but okay, I guess it's cool because he's not a woman.

 

It's amazing how you can be the cruelest person on this show but if you're not a woman who dared to have sex (or anything close) while filming it's no big deal. And instead of banding together and calling these guys out on their hypocrisy, they all turn on each other in their desire to be cool with the guys mocking them.

 

And I am SO over these phrases:

 

• "Have my back" in any iteration- can these idiots not think of a single other way to say that someone is not voting the way they want them to vote?
• "There's a target on my back"
• "No one deserves to be here more than me"- if you're invited, you all deserve to be here the same amount
• "I'm coming for you/you've woken a sleeping bear/ some other false bravado that is almost always untrue

Internalized misogyny sucks. It's really only very recently that we've recognized this phenomenon as a culture, and it will still be a long time before most people rise above it. 

[millennium]

35 minutes ago, Zima said:

Internalized misogyny sucks. It's really only very recently that we've recognized this phenomenon as a culture, and it will still be a long time before most people rise above it. 

No active Challenger does misogyny better than Zach and he can't be bothered to internalize it.   He bullied and verbally abused Jonna; he shared his philosophy that women are "swamp donkeys" created from Adam's rib and thus intended by God to be inferior to men; and he was shamelessly emotionally abusive of Jenna on worldwide television.  Jenna retaliated by marrying him and having his baby.

Keeping it classy, Zach posted on Instagram to announce Jenna's pregnancy:

Quote

“Happy Valentine’s Day! I gave Jenna some lovin’, and she’s giving me a family ... I have never been this excited. August couldn’t come soon enough … because that is when Jenna will officially be a milf.”

Sharing his wonder at how things had turned out, he told Us magazine:

Quote

But if you were to ask me in August 2014 if I thought that hot blonde I met in Panama with the delicious bum would one day be the one to make me a dad, I would’ve laughed in your face.

https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-moms/pictures/jenna-compono-zach-nichols-share-photos-of-newborn-son/

Yes, life is funny.

It's too bad.  I like Zach otherwise.  His observations are snarky and often humorous, and he's a great competitor -- plus he flatters himself that he resembles Thor (must be the backwards baseball cap).   But his cruel treatment of Jonna and Jenna is a dealbreaker.

Edited December 29, 2021 by millennium

[Tatum]

12 hours ago, Zima said:

Internalized misogyny sucks. It's really only very recently that we've recognized this phenomenon as a culture, and it will still be a long time before most people rise above it. 

Is it that recent though? I know we've made some strides since Me Too, but the whole "guys who sleep around are studs while women who do it are sluts and whores" hypocrisy has been called out since at least the 1990s, maybe earlier. 

 

Of course, not helping the cause are the Challenge women, who are all too happy to throw stones at each other. Slut and whore gets bandied about quite a bit amongst them, or at least it did on the ones I watched. Equally guilty is production, which totally eggs the guys on and provided no consequences, until things would turn physical.

 

I did laugh when Zach called Marie (St Thomas) Staten Island Trash, which was fitting as it was more about her getting sloppy drunk and then getting into fights with everyone vs. who she was or was not sleeping with. On the other hand, when Wes kept calling Theresa "trash", my skin just crawled. And there was no reason for production to make a trivia game out of which girl was the trashiest. They didn't ask the girls which guy was trashy.

 

 

[Zima]

On 12/28/2021 at 8:47 PM, millennium said:

No active Challenger does misogyny better than Zach and he can't be bothered to internalize it.   He bullied and verbally abused Jonna; he shared his philosophy that women are "swamp donkeys" created from Adam's rib and thus intended by God to be inferior to men; and he was shamelessly emotionally abusive of Jenna on worldwide television.  Jenna retaliated by marrying him and having his baby.

Keeping it classy, Zach posted on Instagram to announce Jenna's pregnancy:

Sharing his wonder at how things had turned out, he told Us magazine:

Yes, life is funny.

It's too bad.  I like Zach otherwise.  His observations are snarky and often humorous, and he's a great competitor -- plus he flatters himself that he resembles Thor (must be the backwards baseball cap).   But his cruel treatment of Jonna and Jenna is a dealbreaker.

 

14 hours ago, Tatum said:

Is it that recent though? I know we've made some strides since Me Too, but the whole "guys who sleep around are studs while women who do it are sluts and whores" hypocrisy has been called out since at least the 1990s, maybe earlier. 

 

Of course, not helping the cause are the Challenge women, who are all too happy to throw stones at each other. Slut and whore gets bandied about quite a bit amongst them, or at least it did on the ones I watched. Equally guilty is production, which totally eggs the guys on and provided no consequences, until things would turn physical.

 

I did laugh when Zach called Marie (St Thomas) Staten Island Trash, which was fitting as it was more about her getting sloppy drunk and then getting into fights with everyone vs. who she was or was not sleeping with. On the other hand, when Wes kept calling Theresa "trash", my skin just crawled. And there was no reason for production to make a trivia game out of which girl was the trashiest. They didn't ask the girls which guy was trashy.

 

 

"Internalized Misogyny" is when women play into misogyny. Slut-shaming other women, calling other women ugly or stupid,  bragging that they're "not like other girls" as to distance themselves from what they find undesirable with feminity in order to seem cool to men are all part of internalized misogyny. When men do it, it's simply called misogyny. 

[Tatum]

7 hours ago, Zima said:

 

"Internalized Misogyny" is when women play into misogyny. Slut-shaming other women, calling other women ugly or stupid,  bragging that they're "not like other girls" as to distance themselves from what they find undesirable with feminity in order to seem cool to men are all part of internalized misogyny. When men do it, it's simply called misogyny. 

Ohhhh.

 

Hey don't forget the other classic gem often uttered by young women at some point in their lives- "I like hanging out with guys more than girls because girls are usually drama".

 

Yeah, I don't know how it's ever going to get better. I didn't even know there was a word for this type of behavior.

[jsm1125]

Something that bugged me in Total Madness. Mattie had the whole house supporting her when she slut-shamed Ashley, but Ashley had everyone hating her for calling out Mattie’s DUI. Only one of those is an actual crime that impacts other people!

[Tatum]

Just finished watching the original Rivals, which is, I believe, Evan and Kenny's final appearance. Evan is the butt of many jokes for gaining so much weight, and Kenny seems like such a sad sack the whole time. He just looks so beat down in every scene he's in.

 

I have never had a season where I went from loathing someone so much to actually rooting for them. I thought Laurel was an obnoxious bitch in almost every episode, until the soda over Cara Maria's head incident. Whatever her motive was, I was so glad she jumped to Cara Maria's defense and comforted her. I also loved, loved, loved, her screaming at Wes, "Get the fuck out, Fire Crotch, before I kick your ass!" and Wes, although smirking, I think was intimidated. I mean, I am sure if push came to shove Wes could defend himself against Laurel, but he's not going to let himself be filmed putting his hands on a woman, which means he's just going to have to take a couple punches until someone pulls her off, something he wasn't looking forward to and couldn't guarantee wouldn't happen.

 

I am split on her verbal attack on Paula. I mean, Paula was a major instigator, and totally egged Wes on and laughed at and taunted a humiliated, crying, Cara Maria, and certainly didn't deserve much sympathy. Paula is totally the type to dish it out and then start crying when it's lobbed back at her. That said, Laurel went after her instead of Wes because Paula is much more vulnerable, and the insults she was using- you have an eating disorder and you can't get a husband and you're 39 and won't have any kids- I mean these aren't character flaws. Paula has plenty of those and that was what Laurel should have focused on, but she picked those because she knew that was what would hurt Paula the most. I really don't like the implication that not being married and having kids in your 30s is an insult.

 

Another thing really frustrating about that season- so, CT and Mandi have some kind of hook up (Mandi denies it involved sex) and CT quickly loses interest afterward. Mandi takes it very well, is completely mature about it, and insists she doesn't care, and doesn't give any reason to make people think she does care. Yet, Evan and Johnny keep picking at her- hey Mandi, doesn't it bother you that CT doesn't like you anymore? Doesn't it bother you that CT is sitting with Laurel now? They basically want her to break down and cry about it, which she eventually does, after relentless needling from them. It's like, they want to mock the women and if they can't get a reaction from them, they will keep going until they get their pound of flesh. There is no amount of money in the world that would make me spend 10 minutes with these assholes.

[Zima]

10 hours ago, Tatum said:

Just finished watching the original Rivals, which is, I believe, Evan and Kenny's final appearance. Evan is the butt of many jokes for gaining so much weight, and Kenny seems like such a sad sack the whole time. He just looks so beat down in every scene he's in.

 

I have never had a season where I went from loathing someone so much to actually rooting for them. I thought Laurel was an obnoxious bitch in almost every episode, until the soda over Cara Maria's head incident. Whatever her motive was, I was so glad she jumped to Cara Maria's defense and comforted her. I also loved, loved, loved, her screaming at Wes, "Get the fuck out, Fire Crotch, before I kick your ass!" and Wes, although smirking, I think was intimidated. I mean, I am sure if push came to shove Wes could defend himself against Laurel, but he's not going to let himself be filmed putting his hands on a woman, which means he's just going to have to take a couple punches until someone pulls her off, something he wasn't looking forward to and couldn't guarantee wouldn't happen.

 

I am split on her verbal attack on Paula. I mean, Paula was a major instigator, and totally egged Wes on and laughed at and taunted a humiliated, crying, Cara Maria, and certainly didn't deserve much sympathy. Paula is totally the type to dish it out and then start crying when it's lobbed back at her. That said, Laurel went after her instead of Wes because Paula is much more vulnerable, and the insults she was using- you have an eating disorder and you can't get a husband and you're 39 and won't have any kids- I mean these aren't character flaws. Paula has plenty of those and that was what Laurel should have focused on, but she picked those because she knew that was what would hurt Paula the most. I really don't like the implication that not being married and having kids in your 30s is an insult.

 

Another thing really frustrating about that season- so, CT and Mandi have some kind of hook up (Mandi denies it involved sex) and CT quickly loses interest afterward. Mandi takes it very well, is completely mature about it, and insists she doesn't care, and doesn't give any reason to make people think she does care. Yet, Evan and Johnny keep picking at her- hey Mandi, doesn't it bother you that CT doesn't like you anymore? Doesn't it bother you that CT is sitting with Laurel now? They basically want her to break down and cry about it, which she eventually does, after relentless needling from them. It's like, they want to mock the women and if they can't get a reaction from them, they will keep going until they get their pound of flesh. There is no amount of money in the world that would make me spend 10 minutes with these assholes.

I see where you're coming from with the way Laurel went after Paula. However, I really dislike Paula. She always chose to side with terrible men (Johnny, Kenny, Evan) over any possible friendship or alliance with women, and was often an instigator in the act of tearing down other women. Because of this, I had 0 sympathy for her, and cheered Laurel on throughout that confrontation. 

RE: Mandi and CT, I always got the impression that it did bother Mandi, which makes what Kenny and Evan did to her even worse, IMO. 

[Tatum]

4 minutes ago, Zima said:

I see where you're coming from with the way Laurel went after Paula. However, I really dislike Paula. She always chose to side with terrible men (Johnny, Kenny, Evan) over any possible friendship or alliance with women, and was often an instigator in the act of tearing down other women. Because of this, I had 0 sympathy for her, and cheered Laurel on throughout that confrontation. 

RE: Mandi and CT, I always got the impression that it did bother Mandi, which makes what Kenny and Evan did to her even worse, IMO. 

Oh, Paula deserved a verbal beatdown, no doubt. I just wish Laurel had stuck to actual faults of Paula's (which there were plenty to choose from) rather than perpetuate this idea that if you're not married with children by 39, there is something wrong with you. I am sure Laurel said it because she knew that would hurt Paula the most (since that was an area where Paula was deeply insecure), rather than something Laurel truly thought was a problem, but that just plays into the misogyny of the game, that you're somehow a more worthy individual if a guy wants to marry you.

 

Mandi may well have cared, but she was still acting very maturely about the whole thing, and that wasn't enough for Evan and Johnny. They wanted to see her break down over it.

 

These guys complain that girls take challenge hookups way too seriously and get "crazy" over them, and yet when a woman on the show manages to stay composed and not cry or freak out, they badger her until they get the reaction they want. Assholes.

Edited January 4, 2022 by Tatum

[Zima]

4 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Oh, Paula deserved a verbal beatdown, no doubt. I just wish Laurel had stuck to actual faults of Paula's (which there were plenty to choose from) rather than perpetuate this idea that if you're not married with children by 39, there is something wrong with you. I am sure Laurel said it because she knew that would hurt Paula the most (since that was an area where Paula was deeply insecure), rather than something Laurel truly thought was a problem, but that just plays into the misogyny of the game, that you're somehow a more worthy individual if a guy wants to marry you.

 

Mandi may well have cared, but she was still acting very maturely about the whole thing, and that wasn't enough for Evan and Johnny. They wanted to see her break down over it.

 

These guys complain that girls take challenge hookups way too seriously and get "crazy" over them, and yet when a woman on the show manages to stay composed and not cry or freak out, they badger her until they get the reaction they want. Assholes.

That was my take on the Laurel/Paula thing as well; that Laurel knew Paula in particular was deeply insecure about not being married/having kids at that point in her life. I doubt Laurel would have said anything like that to a woman who didn't care about being married or having kids. 

I agree about the guys. I'm so glad I never have to see Kenny or Evan on my screen ever again, and I hope Johnny never comes back. 

[Tatum]

4 minutes ago, Zima said:

That was my take on the Laurel/Paula thing as well; that Laurel knew Paula in particular was deeply insecure about not being married/having kids at that point in her life. I doubt Laurel would have said anything like that to a woman who didn't care about being married or having kids. 

I agree about the guys. I'm so glad I never have to see Kenny or Evan on my screen ever again, and I hope Johnny never comes back. 

Sadly enough, reminding Paula that she was pushing 40 and isn't married with kids probably cut her far more deeply than reminding her she has zero self respect and will attach herself to anyone who provides validation, is capable of great cruelty, and has extremely weak character in general. Some of these women placed so much importance on being liked/wanted by the men in their lives. Hopefully Paula is less pathetic now.

 

ETA: Laurel got her age wrong- she was 29, not 39, which makes Paula's subsequent tears even worse. What is wrong with these women?

Edited January 4, 2022 by Tatum

[Zima]

10 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Sadly enough, reminding Paula that she was pushing 40 and isn't married with kids probably cut her far more deeply than reminding her she has zero self respect and will attach herself to anyone who provides validation, is capable of great cruelty, and has extremely weak character in general. Some of these women placed so much importance on being liked/wanted by the men in their lives. Hopefully Paula is less pathetic now.

 

ETA: Laurel got her age wrong- she was 29, not 39, which makes Paula's subsequent tears even worse. What is wrong with these women?

I've seen Paula's instagram. She's married, with a couple of kids, and is a yoga instructor who can do some crazy moves. It appears that she's doing just fine, but people only show the kodak moments on their social media. 

 

[AncientNewbie]

20 hours ago, Zima said:

I've seen Paula's instagram. She's married, with a couple of kids, and is a yoga instructor who can do some crazy moves. It appears that she's doing just fine, but people only show the kodak moments on their social media. 

 

She also posted recently about being sober, which probably helps her separate herself from the excesses of her youth. 

[Unclejosh]

Yeah I like Paula but the things Laurel was saying were specifically targeted to hurt her and her only. I am of the opinion personally if you start a verbal battle, there are no limits when it comes to the other party coming back at you.  

Laurel is older now than Paula was and is not married and has no kids. I dont think she thinks being older and not having husband and kids is something to be ashamed of in general but knew that for Paula as an individual it was a thing that bother her.

Similar to Big Easy, Laurel never starts these but she fucking ends them.  Easy got off so well "easy" due to the editing.  He said worse things to Laurel first but MTV conveniently edited those out and just showed Laurel's response after he started insulting her.  Btw also using some of the same insults that Laurel used to Paula about having a partner and not being able to have kids as I think Laurel has a medical condition or was worried about one.

In summary I am on Laurels side in both of the arguments she is most famous for.  I am very happy Paula made it out of reality show hell and is by all accounts a very happy wife, mother, and has a good career and is happy.  She ended up winning in the end.

Easy can fuck right off. He is a cancer of a human being.

Edited January 5, 2022 by Unclejosh

[falltime]

Pluto TV is playing Rivals right now.

I'm always amused when Sarah loses the puzzle elimination.

 Something that really bugs me about watching the Pluto rerun is that I have this very clear memory of Jen and Cara Maria continue their fighting at the house from the club. Pluto doesn't play it so I always question if that was shown in The Shit They Should Have Shown or if they cut down the episode(s) and this the only episode I notice it in.

[Tatum]

18 hours ago, falltime said:

Pluto TV is playing Rivals right now.

I'm always amused when Sarah loses the puzzle elimination.

 Something that really bugs me about watching the Pluto rerun is that I have this very clear memory of Jen and Cara Maria continue their fighting at the house from the club. Pluto doesn't play it so I always question if that was shown in The Shit They Should Have Shown or if they cut down the episode(s) and this the only episode I notice it in.

I remember that scene I think...it was after Jen heard that CM was trying to rally people to voting Jen in, right? CM and Laurel were already going in, but for some reason they were after Jen and Mandi as opponents instead of Jasmine and Jonna, which seemed weird to me. Mandi and Jenn were teased a lot for being ditsy, but they weren't weak competitors. Jonna and Jasmine were both decent competitors but were both really small, and it seemed like elimination rounds more often than not favored the larger competitor. Anyways, Jenn overheard CM saying it wasn't fair that Jenn got a free ride to the final, and they started yelling at each other over which one of them was more desperate for attention and which one of them spoke better. Yeah, they really did.

 

During the Laurel/Paula fight, I was rolling my eyes when Tyler said, get the fuck out of my friend's face, to Laurel. First off, Tyler, your "friend" started the whole thing. And she's pretty well known for being an asshole to someone and then crying when that person retaliates. Second, Tyler, she's only "your friend" right at this exact moment- you hated her ten minutes ago and you'll hate her again in 10 minutes.

 

I know why Paula and Co, hated Cara Maria (I mean, she is kind of annoying, and these assholes have to find a common ground in irrationally hating an outsider since otherwise they'll have to realize how they don't like each other), but I have no idea why Wes was so against her.

[choclatechip45]

I am slowly re watching The Island because I quit watching it when it originally aired because I hated it so much. 

Episode 2 Kenny complaining about Dave "Where did they find these kids?"

Someone I think Rachel "I don't know man, Kenny where did they find you? You didn't have an original fucking show."

That might be the best line I've ever heard. I might have to like Rachel Robinson now. 

[Tatum]

On 3/1/2022 at 3:33 PM, choclatechip45 said:

I am slowly re watching The Island because I quit watching it when it originally aired because I hated it so much. 

Episode 2 Kenny complaining about Dave "Where did they find these kids?"

Someone I think Rachel "I don't know man, Kenny where did they find you? You didn't have an original fucking show."

That might be the best line I've ever heard. I might have to like Rachel Robinson now. 

I just watched The Island as well, and I thought it was interesting to see cracks in Kenny's facade. At one point, he is bitching to a bunch of the women (including Ev, who has been bullied by Johnny pretty much nonstop at that point), that everyone is going to judge him because of what Johnny does. Well, yes, Kenny, it does reflect negatively on you when you align yourself with a bully and then stand silently by while he bullies people. Sorry for that inconvenience. And I don't even think it was just logistics, that Kenny worried that Johnny's obnoxious behavior would make him a target to be eliminated. I can't remember what episode it was, but it was during the second half of the season and Kenny already had a key, I don't think they realized yet that the individual game winners would be able to take keys, and even if he did, there were 2-3 people that would have been targeted prior to Kenny. I think he really couldn't stand the thought that people won't like him. For all his bravado, I think Kenny was one of the least secure people to appear on these shows.

[choclatechip45]

11 hours ago, Tatum said:

I just watched The Island as well, and I thought it was interesting to see cracks in Kenny's facade. At one point, he is bitching to a bunch of the women (including Ev, who has been bullied by Johnny pretty much nonstop at that point), that everyone is going to judge him because of what Johnny does. Well, yes, Kenny, it does reflect negatively on you when you align yourself with a bully and then stand silently by while he bullies people. Sorry for that inconvenience. And I don't even think it was just logistics, that Kenny worried that Johnny's obnoxious behavior would make him a target to be eliminated. I can't remember what episode it was, but it was during the second half of the season and Kenny already had a key, I don't think they realized yet that the individual game winners would be able to take keys, and even if he did, there were 2-3 people that would have been targeted prior to Kenny. I think he really couldn't stand the thought that people won't like him. For all his bravado, I think Kenny was one of the least secure people to appear on these shows.

Yeah it's obvious not being on the Real World or Road Rules bugged him. 

[falltime]

I'm so glad Pluto tv now has several season before The Island. It sucks that it's takes like 9 days to loop back. It's going to take me forever to rewatch those seasons.

[falltime]

Surprised to be seeing Total Madness on Pluto TV right now.

[bunnyface]

23 hours ago, falltime said:

Surprised to be seeing Total Madness on Pluto TV right now.

I know!  I was hoping there would be other "new" (to Pluto) seasons as well, but after that one ended, an old one popped up again.  I never watched any of them until I started catching them on Pluto.  Now I've seen all those seasons several times and was hoping for some "fresh meat."  lol

 

[snarts]

Ok, admittedly, I'm a little high...

Watching the Duel 2 on Pluto. How in the world did I forget this intro with all the chanting, formation dancing & hand motions? Dying. 

[luckyroll3]

Been watching Inferno 2 the past couple days and am still disgusted with the way Tanya is treated by Rachel, Veronica, and Tina. And we see some remnants of that with the Treehouse on All Stars. It's not as mean, but still. Veronica, particularly has not changed much.

[luckyroll3]

Just started the Gauntlet and am cracking up that in the 3rd episode of his first season, Cameron tries to quit and TJ is like:

and makes Kina do the Gauntlet by herself. He said, "somebody gotta get this flag!"  😂

Ah Teej....no nonsense from the start!

[jsm1125]

11 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

Been watching Inferno 2 the past couple days and am still disgusted with the way Tanya is treated by Rachel, Veronica, and Tina. And we see some remnants of that with the Treehouse on All Stars. It's not as mean, but still. Veronica, particularly has not changed much.

That was the one season where Veronica annoyed me. I know she is a villain, but I at least understood where she was coming from and/or enjoyed her in her other seasons. 

[millennium]

I really don't like Mark Long.

[Lantern7]

22 hours ago, millennium said:

I really don't like Mark Long.

Why? I get that . . . dude can be intense and I still haven't forgiven him for how BOTS2 shook out . .  but there are other reasons, right?

I'm DVRing the "Untold" stuff while watching CBS's reality stuff on Wednesday nights. I don't think we'll learn much, and they'll probably skip from the first seasons directly to TJ Lavin hosting the show.

[millennium]

2 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

but there are other reasons, right?

I could be wrong, but my impression is that he equates longevity with greatness.    Yeah, he's been around from virtually the beginning but what has he really accomplished in all those years?  Most of his successes were in the "old" Challenge, when the challenges were more like carnival games.   Yet sometimes he comes off like he thinks he's the GOAT of The Challenge.   I was listening to him on Bananas' podcast the other day and I don't know exactly what it was but I found myself thinking "I really don't like this guy."   A straight hour of Mark is a lot to take.

I haven't seen Battle of the Sexes 2 yet.   As someone who got sucked into the show during the TJ years, I find it a bit disconcerting to go back to the earlier ones when the whole thing felt like production was just making it up as they went along.  You know, Finals where you can see hotel guests walking around in the background, eliminations  based on perception rather than performance, hosts who seem less than thrilled to be there, Puck and his kid ...

One credit I will give Mark Long is that he was apparently instrumental in getting All Stars on the air, so kudos for that, Mark.

* Thanks for reminding me to DVR the Untold History!

Edited September 21, 2022 by millennium

[Tatum]

On 9/19/2022 at 11:54 PM, millennium said:

I really don't like Mark Long.

I don't either. I had a crush on him in the the original battle of the sexes, which dissipated over him constantly kissing Puck's ass and egging him on. And while I never watched Mark directly participate in any of the general misogyny that went on, he was often in the room when it happened (since he was generally in the "in crowd" of every show he was on and hung around the biggest offenders) and never did/said anything to stop it.

I was completely disgusted with him during the season where Vinny ripped off Mandi's top, and Vinny is whining to Mark about how it's not that big of a deal and he shouldn't be kicked off the show. Mark says something like, well, I didn't see it, so I'm not going to judge, but...- who the fuck cares if you saw it Mark??? Like 10 other witnesses did, and Vinny himself does not dispute it. How about straight out, Vinny it was completely fucked that you did that and you should be ashamed of yourself. I hope you profusely apologized to Mandi and never do anything like that again. But of course, Mark isn't going to stick his neck out for anyone and take a stand on anything (other than something everyone is already in agreement on anyways). That might make him less popular.

ETA: Just went back and watched. He said, I didn't see how drastic it was, but nowadays...it's going to be tough. Then in his voice over he says, In Vinny's mind, it was kind of a joke. But the rules are, you can't do things like that, and Vinny might be going home.

Yeah, Mark, those pesky rules, not letting frat boys sexually assault women without consequences. Killjoys.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Tatum