S04.E09: Dark Waters

[way2interested]

The question I have.....isn't Malcom presumed dead by the public? Thea inherited his money as his only living realtive. And yet when Quentin sees Malcom....he doesn't seem shocked / surprised. Did I miss something or did I most likely forget something from a previous episode?

 

I'd say Quentin was surprised, since he immediately pulled a gun on Malcolm when he appeared. They really sped through that issue, considering the fact that they needed to get back to saving the rest of the team, but that's at least how I saw it.

 

Come to think of it, how long were Diggle, Thea, and Felicity gone? What was DD going to do if Oliver kept searching for them instead of diverting to his s2-Oliver plan? 

[wonderwall]

I can totally picture DD looking thru their IG and Facebook like "Youths!"

 

He says as he scrolls through her IG and FB accounts :p

[SmallScreenDiva]

The question I have.....isn't Malcom presumed dead by the public? Thea inherited his money as his only living realtive. And yet when Quentin sees Malcom....he doesn't seem shocked / surprised. Did I miss something or did I most likely forget something from a previous episode?

 

Quentin was shocked, but it might have been fleeting because it was quickly replaced by pain when Malcolm slammed him on the table. Malcolm did explain it as I'm not as dead as most people think, or something like that. 

[Starfish35]

"We're pressed for time. Suffice it to say I'm a little less dead than most people think."

[Primal Slayer]

I love the Laurels Canary Cry, though they need to make it more powerful and consistent. They really need to add a minor ripple effect to it though and it would be perfect.

Edited December 12, 2015 by Primal Slayer

[Delphi]

Good god birds of prey's was terrible. This is why you don't max out your cgi budget on the second episode. I thought Smallville did a good job though.

[Chaser]

Where did the driver's body go?

[kismet]

I feel like we missed something key. Or I have missed it if anyone has commented on it upthread.

 

Source

 

 

Source

 

Felicity and Thea had contact this episode! There was also Felicity sort of pushing Thea along after she saw Malcolm in the Arrow suit but I couldn't find a gif of that. That shoulder poke is cute. So I'm choosing to believe that they talk regularly, just off screen, seeing as they prepared that tree lighting surprise together. Much as I choose to believe there was some making out in the limo before what we saw since Felicity's hair was smooth during the proposal but a little mussed in the limo. It didn't get that way from the short jog to the limo.

I also love it that FS back up to cover TQ to protect her. And then Dig came from behind to protect them as well. It's such a protective little group.

[kismet]

And I really really despise the "Canary Cry".  I guess in the comics I never thought about it.  But the depiction on live action TV, I really hate the way Katie Cassidy does it.  It's like: 1) Adopt a FIERCE, CONSTIPATED look.  2)  Open mouth as wide as you can.  3) Slowly shake head back and forth like you are a garden hose watering the flower beds.

I was gonna say, I noticed this episode KC put a little twist on the Cry and was moving her shoulders back in forth. So there is that. She's developing a new Cry technique I guess.  

 

 

They just need to decide what that collar can do and stick with that. I thought Laurel was doing the sprinkler because the sounds only affected what was directly in front of her or something, but she did it in front of the chamber, and it only barely cracked one panel of glass. It seems to be good for the element of surprise and the capability to crack a minimal amount of glass. 

 

I can see how this thing is handy, because she can use it even if her hands are free. Sara's were way more effective though, both because they seemed way more powerful, and because she could've thrown them to get wherever they needed to go.

The pro of it being a collar is that they don't have to keep replacing them every time LL throws one. I mean they can't even vacuum up bad guys. They have enough to worry about with making sure to rid her fingerprints at the crime scenes, I can't imagine they have time to retrieve the Cry devices and those must get costly after awhile. LL is on a budget, ADAs can't make that much money & FS isn't gonna bankroll losing devices.

[KirkB]

Where did the driver's body go?

 

 

When Oliver climbed into the front seat I think he pushed the driver's body aside.

 

Honestly, if they want to please the Laurel/comic fans, they should just make her a metahuman and give her the real cry. At least then there would be a legitimate reason for the goofy face she makes. But I agree that adding some sort of more obvious visual like rippling waves would make her screaming look at least a little less ridiculous than it does. Like she's actually DOING something.

[statsgirl]

Poor driver.

Between the dead Seals and the limo driver, anyone with any sense would not be working for Oliver Queen.

 

I also love it that FS back up to cover TQ to protect her. And then Dig came from behind to protect them as well. It's such a protective little group.

As a protective gesture, it was sweet.  But realistically, Thea is far better able to fight than Felicity.

[KirkB]

Actually, anybody with sense wouldn't live in Star City.

[kismet]

Poor driver.

Between the dead Seals and the limo driver, anyone with any sense would not be working for Oliver Queen.

 

As a protective gesture, it was sweet.  But realistically, Thea is far better able to fight than Felicity.

Oh absolutely, which probably increases the sweetness of the gesture. I love the gesture.... but it's basically useless but it shows that people love/care about you. It's like the "Mom Seat Belt" (when the driver, often a parent, comes to a sudden stop and puts out their hands to stop the passenger from hitting the dashboard). Physics is against you, but still its nice to see.

[wingster55]

Oh yea the best man thing...huh. Forgot about that.

 

I saw Felicity backing up as...well doing so out of fear, not protectiveness. 

[looptab]

Let's just be grateful Diggle is no longer Oliver's driver.

[Delphi]

As a protective gesture, it was sweet. But realistically, Thea is far better able to fight than Felicity.

True, but guarding her main loves sister is such a bad ass notion to me. Felicity and Diggle are completely ready to take the hits to protect Oliver's baby sister. That was adorable.

On another note I haven't really commented on Felicity or olicity this ep. But they were so sweet. The nonverbal communications were awesome, from Oliver mouthing "what. ..why. what are you doing" at the party to the I love yous in the chamber. I cried for completely different reasons each time.

Also that scream when they grabbed Felicity to put her in the chamber gave me chills. One day Emily is going to be a household name.

And for those wondering, yes, I'm Rewatching at 1:30 in the morning instead of going to the bar with friends because I am a super mature adult.

[catrox14]

Let's just be grateful Diggle is no longer Oliver's driver.

 

I dunno. Diggle would have driven that car wherever he had to save them. I thought it was weird that the driver just stopped. I thought for sure he was part of the plan and didn't expect to get killed in the ambush.

[kismet]

I dunno. Diggle would have driven that car wherever he had to save them. I thought it was weird that the driver just stopped. I thought for sure he was part of the plan and didn't expect to get killed in the ambush.

Maybe the driver was a Ghost. It would be the perfect set-up to make it an inside job. And a ghost is willing to die. I hope there is not some shot up limo driver bleeding out around the corner...

 

This is why OQ should never get into stretch limos. He never had a problem when he was being drived around in his Bentley. Also isn't it a little pretentious to leave a tree-lighting ceremony in a limo in the first place?

[BkWurm1]

Good god birds of prey's was terrible. This is why you don't max out your cgi budget on the second episode. I thought Smallville did a good job though.

 

I was going to say the same thing.  I remember watching the Canary episode on Birds of Prey and just cringe watching but not remembering why.  Now I do.  Suddenly Laurel looks a lot less idiotic.  (Still dumb but the awful bar has just been raised)

I also love it that FS back up to cover TQ to protect her. And then Dig came from behind to protect them as well. It's such a protective little group.

I think it's left over from when Thea was just the baby sister.  Felicity and Diggle's instinct haven't changed even though Thea is very capable of protecting herself. 

 

 

 

I saw Felicity backing up as...well doing so out of fear, not protectiveness. 

A couple steps back could be fear but the way Felicity's arms go back to make sure Thea is behind her (while never taking her eye off the threat) very much looks like a protective gesture. 

[statsgirl]

I have the feeling that Parker arranged for the limo.

 

And for those wondering, yes, I'm Rewatching at 1:30 in the morning instead of going to the bar with friends because I am a super mature adult.

It's better for your health, unless you need copious amounts of alcohol to get through it.

[BkWurm1]

And for those wondering, yes, I'm Rewatching at 1:30 in the morning instead of going to the bar with friends because I am a super mature adult.

You have proved to be an inspiration (aka I caved and am rewatching it again) 

 

Just noticed that when Diggle goes to talk to Andy, Diggle steps off the elevator, but it doesn't put him in the main lair like it did when Oliver first showed the group the lair.  I think the lair has another sublevel and that is where Andy and his cage are being stored. 

[Delphi]

I was going to say the same thing. I remember watching the Canary episode on Birds of Prey and just cringe watching but not remembering why. Now I do. Suddenly Laurel looks a lot less idiotic. (Still dumb but the awful bar has just been raised)

Well Lori acted the cry out as a bad ass whistle despite the horrible affects. That's one point for BoP. Because Laurel is waving her head back and forth with her mouth gaped open with no effects at all. (It's impossible to gif in a cool way) Really vibrating a part of the screen and adding some blue sonic stuff wouldn't cost that much.

[looptab]

I dunno. Diggle would have driven that car wherever he had to save them. I thought it was weird that the driver just stopped. I thought for sure he was part of the plan and didn't expect to get killed in the ambush.

I was considering just the 'dead driver' part, but yeah, Diggle probably would have driven them away as soon as he realized they were being trapped. But I guess we are to believe that the driver didn't have the time to realize what was happening, I don't think he was part of the plan.

[bijoux]

I like the theory about the driver being a Ghost.

You have proved to be an inspiration (aka I caved and am rewatching it again) 

 

Just noticed that when Diggle goes to talk to Andy, Diggle steps off the elevator, but it doesn't put him in the main lair like it did when Oliver first showed the group the lair.  I think the lair has another sublevel and that is where Andy and his cage are being stored.

I have believed this to be the case ever since the PA system was revealed. No reason for it if Thea and Oliver had just been training a few feet away from Felicity. I mean, I could see Felicity doing it to amuse herself, but not Oliver responding through it and not just turning around and saying whatever he needs to directly to her.

[wingster55]

A couple steps back could be fear but the way Felicity's arms go back to make sure Thea is behind her (while never taking her eye off the threat) very much looks like a protective gesture.

 

Maybe...but I thought that was more due to Thea grabbing her. 

[bijoux]

Someone asked about the guy who mocked DD. It's James Kidnie. According to IMDb he was also on Tremors in S2 as Milo Armitage. The name does sound familiar. They have him credited as the same character for this episode. While I'm leaning towards the show just using the actor in a different role, HIVE was brought up back in Season 2. It's possible it's the same character. I'd actually really like that. It shows determination on their part.

[dtissagirl]

Whoa, I knew I knew that dude, but I just assumed because Vancouver.

 

Also, ~~~*in the comics*~~~ Milos Armitage marries Sandra Hawke and is Connor's step-daddy.

[TV Anonymous]

I am just wondering out loud how a CEO of a major corporation with plenty of resources in her hand and her formerly-billionaire boyfriend and mayoral candidate, both know exactly that they live dangerously and just confronted and escaped from very dangerous person and his very dangerous organization, do not order an armoured limousine for their mode of civilian transportation.

[Ceylon5]

I assume the limo was armoured, or they both would have been killed in the first spray of bullets.  I think it was just the sheer number of bullets that finally made the glass break, which is why the driver was killed and a stray bullet hit Felicity.

 

Does anyone know what Oliver said to Felicity after she said "Isn't that the whole point of marriage, to get through the hard times because we are together, not in spite of it?"  It sounds like he said "No", but since that's the wrong answer, I assume that isn't what he said?  Maybe "I hope"?  

Edited December 12, 2015 by Ceylon5

[apinknightmare]

I assume the limo was armoured, or they both would have been killed in the first spray of bullets.  I think it was just the sheer number of bullets that finally made the glass break, which is why the driver was killed and a stray bullet hit Felicity.

 

Yeah, I agree. 

 

 

Does anyone know what Oliver said to Felicity after she said "Isn't that the whole point of marriage, to get through the hard times because we are together, not in spite of it?"  It sounds like he said "No", but since that's the wrong answer, I assume that isn't what he said?  Maybe "I hope"?

 

I think he said "Yeah" or "Yup" some other kind of noise of agreement that just came out sounding a little weird.

Edited December 12, 2015 by apinknightmare

[looptab]

Wasn't Milo Armitage the same guy that ordered that other Argus guy to stole whatever that was in Corto Maltese? (Accurate, I know):p

[bijoux]

Wasn't Milo Armitage the same guy that ordered that other Argus guy to stole whatever that was in Corto Maltese? (Accurate, I know):p

According to Wikia, yes. He's also the guy who orchestrated Bronze Tiger's prison break so that he would help steal Malcolm's earthquake machine. I'm legit impressed right now that this guy has been either present or mentioned over three seasons now and it's barely been noticed. I like his snarkiness. Maybe he, DD and Malcolm can have regular sit downs to bitch at each other.

[paigow]

Actually, anybody with sense wouldn't live in Star City.

Oliver only needs 100 votes to win the election....why the expensive campaign manager???

[SmallScreenDiva]

To win him a solid enough mandate to govern ... which Oliver didn't even know he needed until Walter Steele recommended the campaign dude, LOL! 

[lemotomato]

I assume the limo was armoured, or they both would have been killed in the first spray of bullets.  I think it was just the sheer number of bullets that finally made the glass break, which is why the driver was killed and a stray bullet hit Felicity.

 

Does anyone know what Oliver said to Felicity after she said "Isn't that the whole point of marriage, to get through the hard times because we are together, not in spite of it?"  It sounds like he said "No", but since that's the wrong answer, I assume that isn't what he said?  Maybe "I hope"?  

According to closed captioning he said "Yeah"

[wonderwall]

I know this is super lame, but this guy's reaction video to Dark Waters is really funny! Wait till you get to his reaction to the proposal. So heartbreaking lol

 

[statsgirl]

That's so funny.  I guess not all fangirls are XX chromosomes.  (I hope WM and BFS see that, it's exactly the reaction they want.)  He's not faking it all, his blink rate went way up during the Oliver/Felicity scene in DD's dungeon.

 

That's cool about Milo Armitage being a character from the comics and consistently evil on Arrow.

 

James Kidnie has also been Amos Fortune on Smallville. The Commander on Fringe and a bunch of other shows including William Freitag on Warehouse 13 (where I remember him from). 

Edited December 13, 2015 by statsgirl

[NumberCruncher]

That reaction vid was great! That's a Class-A Olicity fanboy right there. He cried more than I did, heh.

[wonderwall]

When he said "This is the best christmas present ever" my heart really went out to him :p Poor guy. You could see the exact moment he realized that something bad was about to happen at the end. I wanted to give him some ice cream lol

Edited December 13, 2015 by wonderwall

[Password]

I want to hug him. Poor guy aww.

Edited December 13, 2015 by Password

[DeadZeus]

Dno why they turn to the most Evil man on Earth for help when they know someone that they can trust in an Arrow costume.. Roy??? I like Malcolm but the team's reliance on him is pretty lame.

[bijoux]

Malcolm is like fungus. He just won't go away. If Roy were still local, he'd be the obvious choice for the subterfuge. Though I do feel better about DD choking Malcolm than Roy. I hate the bastard enough as it is.

It's not just that he rained a hail of bullets on Oliver and Felicity, seriously wounding Felicity in the process. It's that he put a stop to the celebration and wedding planning that surely commenced at the tree lighting site as the limo pulled away. Donna's all for a spring wedding. Some time to plan and lock it down ASAP. Thea knows spring is a really bad time for them. Summer is better, the criminal element is taking their break then. Must be the heat waves. Then Dig steps in. Late fall is the obvious choice. That's when the Central City contingent drops by. Oh, he's also got an idea book that he started the previous summer and he and Oliver have been filling in together since they kissed and made up. And he needs the two of them to help him convince Oliver that catering the wedding himself is not a good idea. No matter how out of this world his cordon bleu is.

[Guest]

LOL that poor guy on the reaction video. Aw bless him crying over Olicity! He must be spoiler free because he was genuinely shocked and emotional about all the different developments. He was so bummed at the end too. My mom is a spoiler free casual viewer and had the same reaction when she watched the episode. She was so down afterwards. Tis the season, guys!

Edited December 13, 2015 by Guest

[paigow]

That reaction vid was great! That's a Class-A Olicity fanboy right there. He cried more than I did, heh.

Is Oliver going to experience a new level of manpain? The Advil was just clearing up his old manpain...maybe Cisco can design a combat-safe version of an insulin pump - repurposed for liquified anti-depressants...

[Delphi]

That's pretty much my entire reaction only more sobbing. Us fanboys are weak.

[NumberCruncher]

Not weak, just full of emotion. I'm glad that guy didn't worry that people saw his tears. I think that's admirable.

[EmeraldArcher]

Embarrassed to admit that I've now re-watched the episode about 10 times--I'm sick in bed and can't do anything else.

 

A few more things caught my attention:

 

During the drone attack at the bay, Laurel is actually shielded by two kids on either side of her!  When she looks up to yell something at Felicity, she raises her head from behind a little girl who she is only shielding with an arm wrapped around her abdomen! This is in stark contrast to Felicity and Diggle sandwiching Thea between them at the holiday party and Oliver covering Felicity's body with his in the limo.  

 

Speaking of the limo, When Felicity raises her hand to look at her ring, she has to let go of Oliver's hand. Pay attention to his hand!  It's so cute; he's staring at her, and his hand reaches for hers before she lowers it, so he fidgets and then grabs her hand as soon as she lowers it. One of the sweetest Oliver moments ever (2:08-2:18)!

 

https://youtu.be/PpvgnLpzTyg?t=2m7s

[bijoux]

Oh, Oliver's sad little hand in the limo was adorkable. I see that and raise you:

1) Oliver gasping for breath when he carries Felicity out of the chamber. Like he couldn't draw breath while she was in there either.

2) Not taking his eyes off her in the lair after the incident. John, Thea and Laurel are there but he's completely focused on her.

3) Felicity's little "oh" after he confirms that she's the person he's particularly grateful for.

4) Felicity caressing his dimple and shirtfront during the proposal.

(5) I'm not 100% sure about this, but are they holding hands as the Ghosts escort them to see DD?

As you can see, I haven't actually rewatched the episode, but I've racked up Olicoty Queen's views a fair amount.

[way2interested]

Gifs are also my best friend, but I'm a pretty morbid person.

 

• Oliver's look of confusion at Felicity's injured body

 

• Oliver's stumble as he tries to get Felicity out of the limo after he gets them away

 

• Felicity's head leaning up towards Oliver in the final shot when he's trying to check her pulse

[bijoux]

Speaking of the limo, When Felicity raises her hand to look at her ring, she has to let go of Oliver's hand. Pay attention to his hand!  It's so cute; he's staring at her, and his hand reaches for hers before she lowers it, so he fidgets and then grabs her hand as soon as she lowers it. One of the sweetest Oliver moments ever (2:08-2:18)!

 

https://youtu.be/PpvgnLpzTyg?t=2m7s

How about the smooch he drops on her cheek as they hug at 1:59? He's such a huge teddy bear with her.