S07.E08: Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me

[ElectricBoogaloo]

As Julian and Lily throw a party to celebrate Mary Louise and Nora's anniversary, Stefan and Damon set in motion a risky plan to eliminate a new threat posed by Julian. Meanwhile, following a major revelation uncovered by Valerie, Caroline is forced to face her new reality, even as it threatens to destroy her relationship with Stefan. Finally, determined to do what's best for her family, Lily makes the most difficult decision of her life.

Promo:

Edited November 20, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[prospazzinator]

Sneak Peek 1:

 

 

Sneak Peek 2:

 

 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Inside the episode:

[prospazzinator]

"Every Breath You Take"? That's what they play during the Stefan/Caroline scene. Okay then.

 

Holy cow! I spent Lily's dying minutes rolling my eyes because we'd just seen her at the beginning so cares if she's "dying" now? Oops! Can't say that I'll miss her, though. 

 

Enzo is such a loser. We've seen him in the flash forwards so I'm so disappointed that Matt's friends don't manage to drive a stake through his heart. And Julian lives? Double bummer. He's still manipulating the heck out of Mary Louise, who is clearly too stupid to live at this point.

[TigerLynx]

I have to get this out of the way first - {Double Face Palm}!!!

 

Since when does it take so long for vampires to die after being staked?

 

Oscar was Valeria's brother and she murdered him so how is Valeria any better than Julian?

 

I do love Damon's consistent, "Kill me already," attitude.  I agree with him about the annoying, boring family drama of Lily and Co.

 

I was fine with Damon's goodbye to Lily.  He was right Lily did make her own bed.

 

LOL at Matt telling Enzo Damon didn't want him.

[Bort]

Man, I was really worried for Valerie there for a minute because I didn't think for a second that Lily would stake Damon over her (also, he's the regular and she's not). I'm totally fine with Lily staking herself, she was such an inconsistent character, I'm glad to see her go.

[2Old2BAFangirl]

I'm surprised they actually killed Lily. I kept waiting for the secret spell that made it seem like she was dead but she wasn't really dead dead. Guess not.

I'm okay with Damon's goodbye too. A case of too little, too late IMO.

Hopefully the break up will get them to dial back cramming Nora and Mary Louise down our throats. I could probably like them if they weren't constantly being pushed front and center.

Damon's petulant pouty face is adorable!!

[TwistedandBored]

Well, at least Lily finally did something useful and killed herself. Bye Felicia. 

[grandemocha]

 

Oscar was Valeria's brother and she murdered him so how is Valeria any better than Julian?

She chose to avenge her unborn, innocent child over her vampire "brother": She made the right choice. Oscar got in the way. If I were her, I wouldn't stop trying to get rid of fucking smug ass Julian for eternity. 

 

Who are Matt's new friends and why should we care? Or why should we think they're a credible threat at all?

 

Where the hell was Bonnie? Out of town? Locked in a cage? Hiding under her bed at college and hoping no one bothered her?

 

I won't celebrate Lily's death for another 3 episodes or so, want to make sure it's permanent.

[TigerLynx]

Oscar didn't get in Valerie's way.  Oscar was off on his own, NOT bringing Julian back to Lily.  Damon kidnapped Oscar to trade him for Elena's body which Lily had stolen, and Valerie murdered a helpless Oscar that was tied up and vervained.

[grandemocha]

 

Oscar didn't get in Valerie's way.  Oscar was off on his own, NOT bringing Julian back to Lily.

This is what happened: "Oscar finds himself strapped to a gunnery being drugged with vervain dripping from a IV as Valerie finds him and asks Oscar if he found Julian yet to which Oscar responded that he found Julian months ago. Oscar intended to bargain Julian in exchange for his freedom from Lily. Valerie then apologized to Oscar and then kills him as she knows what Julian is capable of."

 

So yes, unfortunately for him, Oscar got in the way of what Valerie wanted, which was to keep Julian gone. 

[Couver]

So the Initiative from SunnyDale found their way to Mystic Falls!

 

I wonder if they are connected to Jeremy and Tyler since Matt said he was calling them for help last episode.

 

Mary Louise reversed the spell alone even though the episode tried to make it seem like it needed all 3 heretics to do it? Why didn't Valerie do it alone or with an assist from Bonnie?

 

The fake out with future Lily was nice. I didn't really take her death in the present seriously because I thought she was alive in the future. I'm sort of sorry to see her go. The actress was good and of the new additions she was the one I found the most tolerable.

 

Weakest episode of the season for me. It's been a bit uneven but the other episodes have had some good build up and pay off. This one just seemed flat. Too much focus on the heretics when you have regulars like Bonnie who are totally mia and Matt who has no real story and still hasn't been seen in the future. Even Caroline didn't get much to do this episde.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Couver

[GaT]

If next week is the mid season finale, then I hope they haven't filmed any of the episodes for the rest of the season, because that mean there's a chance they'll fix this piece of crap. Why are they pushing the Nora/Mary Louise love story so hard? Who cares about them? They just spent almost an entire episode on them, why can't we go back to the people who are regulars on this show, instead of these freakin' boring heretics. Where's Bonnie? Where's Alaric? Can Stefan & Damon do something besides fail to kill Julian? Why can't they bring back Tyler & Jeremy? Hell, why can't they bring back Mystic Falls? 

[penelope79]

They keep hiding the face (and the voice) of the girl who hit Damon at the end of the episode: are we suppose to suspect is Elena?

[prospazzinator]

They keep hiding the face (and the voice) of the girl who hit Damon at the end of the episode: are we suppose to suspect is Elena?

I just figured they hadn't cast the part yet rather than it being someone we know. I'm hoping we find out what's going on sooner rather than later after the hiatus because this flashforward business is getting a bit stale.

[chrisvee]

I'm glad that Lily's dead and don't blame Damon at all for his reaction. I just don't want it to cause problems with Stefan. At least she sacrificed herself now the way she should have in the past for her children.

The show is starting to bore me -- too many heretics and flash forwards are getting annoying because they reveal too little. But maybe now that those folks with the darts in the future showed up in the present, things will move along faster. I just want all the heretics to DIAF.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

While it's all well and fine that Lily finally saw the error of her ways, that doesn't mean Damon has to immediately forgive her so I was totally fine with his good bye to her. Besides, as he said, she was already dead to him when he was 17. Having her come back from the prison world only made things worse because he learned that instead of actually dying, she abandoned him to an abusive father and never looked back. In point of fact, she specifically told her sons that she did everything she could to forget them and no longer thought of them as her family because the Heretics were her family. Her newfound interest in having her sons back happened all of five minutes ago so I don't blame Damon for still being mad at her.

 

Julian just gets worse and worse. He is such a manipulative douchebag. Great that he already had that big ass ring to give Mary Louise, but he was such a dick when he insulted the ring she originally showed him. His ultimatum to Lily was 100% asshole. I know an abusive jerk who constantly told his wife that he and their kids were her family now, not her mother and her siblings. Classive abusive behavior, trying to tell the victim that you are her whole world and no one else counts.

 

I know I was supposed to see Lily staking herself to save Damon and Valerie as this amazing grand gesture, but all I could think was that Darla did it better on Angel (and her sacrifice was for naught since that baby grew up to be Connor who was The Worst).

 

Another example of the show pretending vamps don't have super hearing: Julian taunts Valerie about her baby and laughs about, then two seconds later Mary Louise walks in and asks how they are supposed to trust Valerie isn't lying about Julian stomping the baby out of her.

 

Ha, I totally thought of the Initiative when Enzo got snatched too! If he gets labeled Hostile 17 and gets a chip put in his head, I will laugh my ass off. Enzo has overstayed his welcome. He does nothing besides mope about Lily and sass Matt. I was really straining to see the faces of the Initiative guys because I was hoping it would be Jeremy and Tyler.

 

It really annoyed me that Lily told Enzo that she would run away with him if she could and then let him kiss her. Ever since he confessed his feelings for her, she has been adament that she doesn't see him that way, but now that she's realized Julian is an abusive jerk suddenly she might have feelings for Enzo? Gross.

 

Totally loved that Matt told Enzo that neither Damon nor Lily wanted him. The Salvatores reject you for both bromance and romance! Also hilarious when Damon said the only reason he was cooperating with the plan to unlink Lily and Julian before killing Julian was because Stefan was a momma's boy and he didn't want to get the silent treatment for the next century.

Edited December 4, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[blixie]

 

Julian just gets worse and worse. He is such a manipulative douchebag.

 

I love him, he's fantastic, and I was glad he really was upset about Lily and that whatever else he is his feelings about her and their "family" seem relatively genuine, he's kind of a Klaus copy, but less petulant and I'm really enjoying him. Unfortunately I could not give two fucks for Mary Louise OR Nora and we seem stuck with them all season. RME. Especially when Matt and Bonnie are getting shoved aside by these painfully boring characters. 

 

I'm still enjoying the flash forwards, but at this point I want more of the narrative to be in the future than it is in the "present/past" (save Julian). 

[Cattitude]

I thought that was the worst episode ever and for the first time I'm considering quitting the show.

First it was told in such a disjointed and hodge podge way it was slightly confusing and def not interesting.

 

I was happy with the way Damon dealt with Lily and wasn't at all bothered he didn't forgive her. To me she was worse to her children than their father by jerking them around and no one wants them to forgive him. One reason I have never liked Stefan is he allows his feelings to be manipulated too easy.(except for his brother he NEVER forgives him without work. RME)  I was super pissed in the flash forward Damon was all mommy I'm so sorry. ugh!

I kept waiting and it never happened but since it was Lily's fault Elena is sleeping beauty for 60 yrs why didn't it occur to Stefan especially, that the way Lily could redeem herself to Damon would be spend however long it takes trying to find a loophole to BREAK THE DAMN SPELL! So stupid and plot pointie he didn't tell Lily THAT is how to get Damon to forgive her.

 

Stefan is such a douchebag to Caroline I don't see how they are supposed to romantic. He always has to "think about" and worry over the right thing to do or say with her. He never has this problem with other women he supposedly loves. I can't get any true love for Caroline out of Stefan. He always leaves her hanging then swings back around and she laps it up.

 

I care nothing for Nora or Mary Louise. Why are they eating up the show? I wish they would go Bye Felicia with Lily!

 

The Matt story is so disjointed and makes no sense with the rest of everything else. Where was Alaric? With all that happened to him I would expect him to kidnap Caroline and seal her in a room made of pillows. At the very least make her live at his house. He finds out she has his babies inside her and just what goes to grade papers!!!

 

On a positive note thanks so much for dying Lily but per your usual self if you really wanted to help us out since you thought you were linked and wanted to make a "noble sacrifice" why didn't you FOR ONCE stand up and stab your abuser in the heart! Then we'd be rid of Julian...of course then we'd still have you around..humm catch 22.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Cattitude

[prospazzinator]

I completely forgot about the "I love you" exchanges. They've only been dating like 5 minutes, right? I get that they've been friends for some time now, but it felt like that was just added in to up the drama. I don't like any of the romantic entanglements on this show, either in the present or the flashforwards.

[Primetimer]

Liane Bonin Starr is not a crackpot for being tooooooootally fine with how things go for Lily in the latest episode.

Read the story

[grandemocha]

 

Stefan especially, that the way Lily could redeem herself to Damon would be spend however long it takes trying to find a loophole to BREAK THE DAMN SPELL! So stupid and plot pointie he didn't tell Lily THAT is how to get Damon to forgive her.

Because Nina Dobrev decided to leave the show and likely won't return until the series finale. Therefore, the writers chose to not waste time by having Lily tell Damon how to break the spell because it'd be pointless in the end. They can't have the characters break the spell because Nina isn't around to portray Elena waking up from the stupid sleeping beauty curse. I despise Damon personally, but do his fans really want to see him spend every single second finding a loophole for that dumb spell? Isn't that boring?

 

They'll discover some ridiculous deus ex machina by the series finale and Damon & Elena will reunite. Or...far more likely, it'll end with Bonnie committing suicide again because she doesn't value her own life, so others can be happy instead of her.

[TigerLynx]

So yes, unfortunately for him, Oscar got in the way of what Valerie wanted, which was to keep Julian gone.

 

 

Oscar did not know anything about Julian killing Valerie's baby.  Julian killed Valerie's baby to get what he wanted.  Valerie killed Oscar to get what she wanted.  I stand by my original statement that Valerie is not any better than Julian.

[Couver]

 

 

Enzo and Lily got their kiss so that it can be established without the shadow of a doubt that once again,  Bonnie is with someone who didn't want her first.

 

I didn't think of this initially but you're right. Which is really sad and gross. But so very consistent. 

[grandemocha]

 

I stand by my original statement that Valerie is not any better than Julian.

That's cool :) I personally think a man beating a defenseless human woman so brutally that he causes her to lose her innocent child in a miscarriage is worse than one 170+ year old vampire killing another around the same age to try and keep her attacker locked away. But then again, I also thought Damon was trash for killing another pregnant African American woman who did nothing wrong and don't really give a shit about the sob story that Plec & Dries wrote out for him this season to explain why he was sooo bad. 

 

To each his own though!

[TigerLynx]

I don't buy any sob stories for Damon and Stefan either.  I preferred Season One Damon.  I don't find any of the "whoa is me, I am a poor vampire" SLs interesting.  Valerie has no problem killing innocent people to get what she wants so she is no different than Julian.  The baby that was killed was the innocent victim.

[Cattitude]

Because Nina Dobrev decided to leave the show and likely won't return until the series finale. Therefore, the writers chose to not waste time by having Lily tell Damon how to break the spell because it'd be pointless in the end. They can't have the characters break the spell because Nina isn't around to portray Elena waking up from the stupid sleeping beauty curse. I despise Damon personally, but do his fans really want to see him spend every single second finding a loophole for that dumb spell? Isn't that boring?

 

They'll discover some ridiculous deus ex machina by the series finale and Damon & Elena will reunite. Or...far more likely, it'll end with Bonnie committing suicide again because she doesn't value her own life, so others can be happy instead of her.

 

My point wasn't anything to do with wanting anything in particular other than a consistent believable story. The writers set it up that Lily caused the love of Damon's life to be in the spell so if they want to waste a whole scene of Lily and Stefan discussing Damon and how much his mother is dead to him the realistic thing for Stefan, who also cares a lot about Elena and knows his brother,  would be logically to tell Lily that is how he would forgive her. Not advocating for actually spending time trying to break a spell that is a giant plot point b/c ND left. That is why I said Stefan not suggesting this was a plot point. I just don't know why the writers want to even have made Lily the reason for the spell in the first place but since they did of course realistically finding a way to break it could redeem her to Damon. My whole gripe is that the writers set up one thing then drop it for another when it suits their current need and not making anything consistent. It makes it hard to enjoy.

[Bort]

My whole gripe is that the writers set up one thing then drop it for another when it suits their current need and not making anything consistent. It makes it hard to enjoy.

Therein lies the whole problem with the character of Lily. I mean, first she was supposedly a crazy Ripper, then she was coldly more into her new family and didn't give a shit about her sons, then she DID give a shit about her sons but still wanted her man back, THEN changed her mind again once she found out what he'd done to Valerie... I haven't seen such wild characterization swinging since Layla on Nashville. And even that was done over three seasons, this Lily shit took place over less than a season. I might have liked Lily if each version of her hadn't been so annoying and none of this is against Annie Wersching either, there's just nothing that could've been done to make this character likeable for me.

Weirdly, the only version of Lily that I liked was Damon's brief hallucination of her, which gives me high hopes for this huntress, whoever she may be.

[Cattitude]

But why would Stefan suggest it? It's been established as fait accompli all this while. No one is even trying to break the spell so why would it enter his head to ask Lily, when none of them have thought of asking Valerie who's sort of on their side now to siphon it out of Elena? Lily's not even a witch. She gave the idea of the spell to Kai because it echoed her own loss of Julian, not because she had any special knowledge of it.

 

Mainly b/c the writers set it up that way and then wasted a whole scene of Stefan and Lily discussing how she could redeem herself to Damon. To me it was like 1+1=2. They made a point of having Damon know Lily is the whole reason for the spell then made a point of having Lily and Stefan discuss how Damon could ever forgive Lily for all she did to them. Like I said no brainer for me. It has nothing to do with Damon and what he is doing currently but more to do with knowing the characters and what would be logical. I mean all that could have happened is Stefan tell Lily the way she could redeem herself is find an loophole to Elena's sleeping spell and then Lily could have said it is impossible and let it drop. At least Stefan would have said what would be the most logical thing for him to say. I never understood the point of the writers having Damon know Lily caused the spell why not just have left it at evil Kai like it was and then it wouldn't have made the scene with Lily and Stefan look so inconsistent to me which was my original point. but YMMV.

[immortalfrieza]

Mainly b/c the writers set it up that way and then wasted a whole scene of Stefan and Lily discussing how she could redeem herself to Damon. To me it was like 1+1=2. They made a point of having Damon know Lily is the whole reason for the spell then made a point of having Lily and Stefan discuss how Damon could ever forgive Lily for all she did to them. Like I said no brainer for me. It has nothing to do with Damon and what he is doing currently but more to do with knowing the characters and what would be logical. I mean all that could have happened is Stefan tell Lily the way she could redeem herself is find an loophole to Elena's sleeping spell and then Lily could have said it is impossible and let it drop. At least Stefan would have said what would be the most logical thing for him to say. I never understood the point of the writers having Damon know Lily caused the spell why not just have left it at evil Kai like it was and then it wouldn't have made the scene with Lily and Stefan look so inconsistent to me which was my original point. but YMMV.

The writers of this show have always been too terrible to actually write plots and characterizations that are even REMOTELY logical and consistent. If there was any logic and/or consistency on TVD for even 5 minutes the vast majority of the season wide or even 2 episode long plots throughout the series would have been solved in that 5 minutes with time to spare. If there's anything consistent about this show it's that characters consistently fail to think up the obvious solutions to their problems and use their abilities effectively or worse suggest it but don't have the guts to actually do it when they should. For instance, when they found out Lily and Julian were linked Damon should have staked Lily through the heart that very second, and Stefan shouldn't have cared if he did, Stefan just spontaneously starts giving a damn about a mother he couldn't have cared less about and even actively hated up to that point so it can't happen. Another is the writers did the cliched "say goodbye to the dying character" despite the fact it's been shown every single time that stabbing a vampire causes them to die within 10 seconds and it was with a character with no redeemable aspects that had those redeemable aspects basically shoved into her at the last second in a ridiculous attempt to get the viewers to actually care.

 

At this point I'm only still watching to see just how ridiculous this show can get. If I'm actually enjoying anything about this show anymore it's laughing at the stupidity of the characters.

[txwatcher]

Yeah I thought Lily was going to stake Julian. That would have been the smart sacrifice. Lily probably thought she wasn't capable of doing it, look at how easily he convinced her to feed. She could have at less tried. What is up with Vampire hearing?

[miss-vanilla]

 For instance, when they found out Lily and Julian were linked Damon should have staked Lily through the heart that very second, and Stefan shouldn't have cared if he did, Stefan just spontaneously starts giving a damn about a mother he couldn't have cared less about and even actively hated up to that point so it can't happen. Another is the writers did the cliched "say goodbye to the dying character" despite the fact it's been shown every single time that stabbing a vampire causes them to die within 10 seconds and it was with a character with no redeemable aspects that had those redeemable aspects basically shoved into her at the last second in a ridiculous attempt to get the viewers to actually care.

 

 

Didn't Damon do exactly that in the last ep as soon as found out Julian and Lily were linked? I distinctly remember Damon driving that sword (that he thought would kill), through Julians heart.

Actually, the only consistent thread throughout this episode was exactly Damon stating the obvious. During the "planning stage" he stated at least twice that they should just stake Lily and job done, but Stefan has to have the last word and he wanted inexplicably at this point to save Lily. Furthermore, Damon explicitly tells Lily that he would do just that if it weren't for Stefan in his angry rant her outside of the party. Everything Damon is doing, he doing for Stefan, because if it were up to him, Lily and Julian would be long gone.

Lilys rushed redemption arc was just typical of the erratic pacing and crap writing that is hurting this show in a season that could have been so much better.

The things that bugged me were the timing of the Stefan/Lily scenes and the Steroline scenes, smack bang in the middle of STEFANS plan to kill Julian. The lack of urgency from Stefan was just astounding especially since he left Damon in charge of guarding Julian lol, I mean really Stefan, you choose now to have a heart to heart with your Mom, then  Caroline about the babies, when earlier you couldn't wait to get away so you could kill Julian? Hello!!!!!

STFU, and go and do what you came to do and stop messing around with all this hero hair BS.

 

Not a fan of this baby stuff at all, just because I don't like babies or children in supernatural drama. Also Caroline is just not interesting anymore, and her presence in this episode wasn't really needed.

 

No Bonnie? Although I'm glad that she isn't being used as a magical get out of jail free card in these Salvatore schemes, it does seem slightly strange that she isn't involved in plots that involve witchy woo. I guess she is at college or something.

 

So Damon is witchy migrained, tied to chairs, vervained and infected with werewolf venom again, good ho! how original.

 

I had high hopes for this season, especially since the departure of Nina was supposed to breath new life into this show, but it seems they are floundering around aimlessly regardlessly. Having DE around may have divided opinion, but at least some people cared about it, but no one cares about Steroline either way.

Defan is stuck in the same old cycle of Damon capitulating to Stefans every whim, and is nothing more than his henchman sidekick doing the dirty work whilst shelving his own agenda, and it looks like nothing has changed if the FF are anything to go by.

 

This show never worked better than when Damon was driving the plot or story, and at the moment he is treading water. It's reminiscent of S5 when he was just reacting to everything rather than instigating the action, and it got old fast, and I fear this season will go the same way. He needs a goal, something he need to do for himself, a proper storyline, but it isn't happening yet, and the future looks set to be all about Stefan with the huntress storyline. I fear we are going down a "need to save Stefan SL", which we have already seen ad nauseum, as a replacement for a "need to save Elena" SL for Damon.

 

I'm bored, and I want my vampires back. We got to see vamp fangs in this episode for once, but not the ones I want to see. 

Damon and Stefan are vampires, let them BE vampires show.

 

Damon has been the recipient of unearned forgiveness so many times on this show that this was a great opportunity to see him give a little of that and he failed. Again. He may have been justified in hurting Lily, but I deeply disliked him for that. 

 

Enzo and Lily got their kiss so that it can be established without the shadow of a doubt that once again,  Bonnie is with someone who didn't want her first.

 

True, and Damon has also shown the capacity to forgive also- see Stefan, and Katherine (at first), and I believe he would have forgiven Lily had she given him the slightest reason to. Lily hadn't earned forgiveness from Damon, her death bed apology was too little to late for him especially since he is still living in the misery of which she is partially responsible for. 

 

I understand why people are against Bonnie and Enzo, especially after this episode, but Benzo is a  future romance as far as we know. On this show, nobody is anyones first are they?

Enzo can read read poetry to me anytime ok? swoon.

 

The boring heretics are eating up way too much screen screen time for my tastes, ala the Originals, but I don't hate them. I just wish the allocated screen time was flipped the other way.

[Couver]

 

No Bonnie? Although I'm glad that she isn't being used as a magical get out of jail free card in these Salvatore schemes, it does seem slightly strange that she isn't involved in plots that involve witchy woo. I guess she is at college or something.

 

 

Well the show has only ever really used Bonnie for her powers more than her character. And now that it has a hosue full of witches I guess they don't need her for that. Which is too bad because she was powerless for season 5 and large parts of season 6. It would be nice to see her working on her magic again.

 

Unrelated but have we ever seen the hosue the engagement party happened in before? I always thought The Salvatore Mansion & the Lockewood Mansion were the largest estates in Mystic Falls? I mean even being founding families the Gilbert & Forbes hosues were fairly standard places. But the house from yesterday's espidoe looked massive. Almost like a hotel?

Edited December 5, 2015 by Couver

[Artsda]

So is Damon going to need Klaus to appear to save him?

Blah at no Bonnie and too much of the others. I'm interested in Matt's new friends.

[FiveByFive]

Well the show has only ever really used Bonnie for her powers more than her character. And now that it has a hosue full of witches I guess they don't need her for that. Which is too bad because she was powerless for season 5 and large parts of season 6. It would be nice to see her working on her magic again.

It's almost a trope at this point that any powerful character on any TV series eventually either:

 

A.)  Is removed from the main plot and put somewhere else.

B.)  Is depowered.

C.)  Is crazy or 

D.)  Suddenly forgets how powerful they were two episodes ago and does something incredibly dumb.

 

Bonnie has been all those things in one season or another. I will say, in this case, Bonnie can't do much against the witch/drainers since they could simply just ... drain her. 

 

I understand why people are against Bonnie and Enzo, especially after this episode, but Benzo is a  future romance as far as we know. On this show, nobody is anyones first are they? Enzo can read read poetry to me anytime ok? swoon.

Bonnie is usually given the throwaway character from whatever season she is in. At least he's not her adopted brother this time. Although I couldn't ever see Bonnie with a vampire besides Damon since she has a history of disliking them. Then again when has this show ever cared about history.

Weirdly, the only version of Lily that I liked was Damon's brief hallucination of her, which gives me high hopes for this huntress, whoever she may be.

 

I'm actually with the person who started to like the actress. I mean, the character was twisted and I blame the writers for that.  Just what is her motivation this week? Does she like the boys? Does she not like the boys? Is she all about her family? 

[DigitalCount]

I'd really like to know who decided that it would be a great idea/character trait for Beau to be mute. Is the actor a mime in real life? Is it a contract thing? No, seriously, why is this character literally not allowed to have a voice? I'm watching these scenes where Beau is supposed to be expressing some feeling, and it just feels so typical of this writing team to make the one black guy mute. The actor is doing a great job conveying all he can with expressions, but it just feels so...spiteful almost, that we don't really get to know what he thinks or what his story is. He's a black guy who somehow ended up with this group after something in his past happened, and he was once a singer. We get scene after scene of Mary Louise and Nora marveling at the advances society has made, which is fine, but what does Beau think of the world he now occupies?

 

Oh well. TVD gonna TVD. I actually didn't mind this episode, though Lily's death was hugely telegraphed. I think it would have been better if we hadn't seen that futureLily was a hallucination. At the same time, having us wonder how they were going to get Lily back for more than one episode followed by confirming that nope, she's dead would have been difficult to pull off. Stefan's situation was one where I could see the plot in the background, moving people like chess pieces, but I did have to chuckle when he said how Damon totally did the evil pixie eye thing on him for decades and now they're totally bros. I do like that lines have been drawn between the Heretics, and Matt/Enzo/shock team works well enough as a side plot. I don't believe for a second that Julian's whole plan with the compelled people was to have party guests, so I'm interested to see how that plays out too.

[Love]

So glad Lily is dead. Damn that stupid Mary-Louise for unlinking Julian though. He needs to go too. So glad Nora broke up with her. I dislike the heretics, but I much prefer Nora to ML.

I like Valerie. There I said it. I like the actress and the character. I much prefer her with Stefan. Liked her with Damon too.

Did I mention I'm glad Lily is dead? As others have said, I don't blame Damon's reaction to her dying. Although I don't hate that he seemed to regret it "3 years later".

I am still one of the few who like Enzo. As I mentioned a few episodes ago, mostly for shallow reasons. The actor is hot and I like his voice. He can stay for a bit.

Matt either needs to die or become a vamp. I get that he needs to be the human connection. But he is just so boring.

[immortalfrieza]

It's almost a trope at this point that any powerful character on any TV series eventually either:

 

A.)  Is removed from the main plot and put somewhere else.

B.)  Is depowered.

C.)  Is crazy or 

D.)  Suddenly forgets how powerful they were two episodes ago and does something incredibly dumb.

Almost nothing, all of these have been happening to all powerful characters for as long as fictional stories have existed. The more powerful a character is, the less likely the writers are to use that character intelligently and the more likely they are to use crap like that to get around that strength. Some characters like Superman are all but completely consumed by those tropes. It's rare to find a work of fiction where the writer actually thinks ahead and balances a character's power to be significant enough to be able to be used consistently yet weak enough that they can still be threatened, and it always happens with a work with a clearly defined beginning and end from the start when it does happen.

 

Matt either needs to die or become a vamp. I get that he needs to be the human connection. But he is just so boring.

 

Seconded. Matt has no purpose and any attempt by the writers to give him one just gets more and more nonsensical. Just like Cami on the Originals he's there solely so that they have somebody human around on that show, not because it's beneficial to the show in any way to have him. It was the same thing when Elena was still human, she didn't do anything and there was no sensible way to allow her to do anything with a bunch of near invincible beings around everywhere that could crush her like an ant before she knew what happened at any time without making those beings into complete idiots. Elena's character got a LOT better once she became a vampire and thus could actually contribute, not that she did that much but at least she could and did sometimes and it wasn't entirely ridiculous when she did.

 

At this point the writers should just stop trying and either kill off all the significant human characters or vamp them because there is no way any of them will have room to accomplish anything.

Edited December 5, 2015 by immortalfrieza

[bobbyjoe]

Hey, show, if you want there to be any suspense ever, you sometimes have to have our heroes set out to kill someone and, you know, like actually kill them (and not just in a season finale).  Julian is a useless character.  Totally useless.  No one is going to give a royal rat's patootie whatsoever if he dies and is never seen on this show ever again.  Great place to start.  Damon and Stefan set out to kill Julian.  They do.  He stays dead.

 

See, then you can come up with a much better villain, and have an episode where Damon and Stefan need to kill him.  But now-- and pay attention here--- instead of the audience thinking "Of course Damon and Stefan aren't going to kill this guy, because the writers never kill off this kind of villain, and he has a British accent which means he'll be around to endlessly chew up all the scenery for a long, long, long time"-- instead, the audience might think "hey, wait, you know, they did kill Julian that one time.  So maybe-- possibly, perhaps, there's a slight chance-- that this time we won't be able to predict every single damn thing in the episode like we always can and maybe, just maybe, Damon and Stefan will actually kill this villain."

 

See, show, to generate suspense, you have to at least provide your audience with Possibility A (the villain lives) and Possibility B (the villain dies).  If the only thing you ever give your audience is Possibility A, there's no suspense, ever.  It's not really that hard an equation.  I imagine there's a book or two, you can probably even find one with big words and pictures like "Story Writing for Third Graders" or something, that makes the very basic elements of what you have to have to have an actual interest-generating story clear.

Edited December 5, 2015 by bobbyjoe

[Bort]

I'm actually with the person who started to like the actress. I mean, the character was twisted and I blame the writers for that.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, in that the only version of Lily that I liked was the one that Damon hallucinated because in that five minute scene, she was already a better written character than she had ever been (thus the high hopes for the huntress, once they officially introduce her). I really do like Annie Wersching, I first saw her in 24 and since then, she's shown up in just about everything I watch. Last year, I was watching her on Vampire Diaries, Castle and Bosch all at the same time.

I like Valerie. There I said it. I like the actress and the character. I much prefer her with Stefan. Liked her with Damon too.

I really like Valerie too. Enough that I was apprehensive about her fate in this episode, I thought they were going to pull a Rose* on me. Rose referring to the season 2 character played by Lauren Cohen. Rose was funny, charming, gelled well with the cast, especially Damon, and was dead in six episodes. Still pouting about it. Although, I don't know how they will sustain Valerie as a character. She and Stefan crusading their revenge against Julian only goes so far before it gets stale.

[Love]

Was it just me or when Valerie manhandled Damon out of the house to give Steroline privacy, I could see a spark between them? She has all the qualities of someone he would want - "slept with his baby brother" - so he's bound to fall for her.

 

Yes, thank-you.  I saw it too.  I liked Val and Damon together.

[slayer2]

Well, at least Lily finally did something useful and killed herself. Bye Felicia. 

 

Oh god, she staked herself? Oh hi Darla! Plec and co are such hacks. Regardless, cheers to the end of the boring Lily and her useless famiwee.

[TwistedandBored]

Oh god, she staked herself? Oh hi Darla! Plec and co are such hacks. Regardless, cheers to the end of the boring Lily and her useless famiwee.

 

Yeah. She finally did me and everyone that disliked her a favor and staked herself. 

[Watt]

I haven't watched a single Vampire Diaries episode this year. All I have to do is come here, read the comments, and get all I need. Thanks guys!

[raytch]

Ugh. I hope the show gets canceled soon.

I want better things for Paul Wesley and Ian Somerhalder.

I don't even have any snarky comments you guys!

[slayer2]

Yeah. She finally did me and everyone that disliked her a favor and staked herself.

Well God bless her! Good tidings indeed!

[moonunit777]

I really hate the heretics and I'm glad Lily is gone. The entire heretic story line is SO boring. The only one I actually liked was Oscar but they killed him off. They killed off Kai - I loved him. Kai offered to bring some spice back into things. I thought it was great that he was starting to be good and struggled with it. He was so funny and similar to what I loved about Damon. I thought that he would have made an interesting love interest for someone - Bonnie maybe. Kai was really starting to become likeable and then he just, inexplicably, turns totally evil again. What?? Where did the brother inside go? So, now we've been stuck with the boring, supposedly dangerous and terrifying hererics and pathetic Lily. I mean, how did that woman lead anyone? I'm with Damon - get some rest in the annoying, whiny bed you made for yourself. 

 

Enzo used to be fun but now he's boring and that whole kiss with Lily was just off. I actually think that Bonnie and Enzo could have an interesting hate turns to love relationship - since they obviously hook up in the future. But, like, make it last more than one episode - and give Enzo some of his evil charm back. Geez. 

 

And can we please just get some characters with chemistry back on this show????? How about someone bombs all the heretics, Caroline and Stefan break up - zero chemistry - and we just start over with some spicy new vamps or werewolves...something???? 

Edited December 7, 2015 by moonunit777

[ByTor]

I kept waiting and it never happened but since it was Lily's fault Elena is sleeping beauty for 60 yrs why didn't it occur to Stefan especially, that the way Lily could redeem herself to Damon would be spend however long it takes trying to find a loophole to BREAK THE DAMN SPELL! So stupid and plot pointie he didn't tell Lily THAT is how to get Damon to forgive her.

It would have been great if this happened; IMO they could have written in an explanation that Kai told Lily about it (not very likely but they've done worse on the ridiculous meter!).  It would have made Lily's death all the more dramatic, since now the loophole to break the spell would have been dead right along with her.

[Dorne2.0]

The thing I hate the most is that this pregnancy was forced on Caroline and now it seems to be more about Rick and Stefan's feeling than hers. I would like someone to actually ask her if she's keeping these babies those awful Gemini forced on her. And they'll be destined to merge when they turn 22, no? Otherwise, the whole Coven (only the two of them) dies, no? The Gemini sucked so much. Having twins magic fight to the death and not even have the decency of raising them apart so they wouldn't have to merge with someone they loved and forcing their babies on women without their consent, and then cloak them so she wouldn't even know! They were the worst I'm glad Kai killed them.

[RachelKM]

The thing I hate the most is that this pregnancy was forced on Caroline and now it seems to be more about Rick and Stefan's feeling than hers. I would like someone to actually ask her if she's keeping these babies those awful Gemini forced on her. And they'll be destined to merge when they turn 22, no? Otherwise, the whole Coven (only the two of them) dies, no? The Gemini sucked so much. Having twins magic fight to the death and not even have the decency of raising them apart so they wouldn't have to merge with someone they loved and forcing their babies on women without their consent, and then cloak them so she wouldn't even know! They were the worst I'm glad Kai killed them.

I completely agree, both as to the lack of point of view for Caroline and the Gemini Coven as a whole.   The Gemini Coven and their whole bat shit crazy twin merging, collective death, and siphon shaming (it seemed it extended beyond psycho-Kai) regime/philosophy/dicta was and remains a shit show.

Edited December 10, 2015 by RachelKM