S02.E08: International Assassin

[toomuchtv47]

I missed the 'congratulations' line and figured it was't worth rewinding.  Boy was I wrong.  Congratulations, indeed.

 

When I watched little Patti climb onto the well and sit on the edge, a lesson from a writing class I took popped into my head.  We were told, by a very accomplished screenwriter, that the audience doesn't like bad things happening to children.  So I wondered what the twist would be.  Kevin wasn't going to kill a kid.  Then cut to the long shot, little Patti starts to speak, Kevin doesn't hesitate and there goes little Patti.  I laughed out loud.  Not because they went there but there was just something amusing with the way Kevin did it.  I may need to seek out therapy.

[ToastnBacon]

I'm kind of curious what the process is to send cards and gift baskets to people in Purgatory.

I'll bet that the "I told you so" gift basket is very popular.

[jcin617]

I really enjoyed this episode, and actually felt a little sorry for Patti.  

At one point when Kevin was walking down the hotel hallway, he passed a police officer with a bag over his head being led in the opposite direction.

If I'm not mistaken, Kevin encountered all of his alternative clothing choices on other people. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

The Leftovers Introduces The Five People You Kill In Heaven
Kevin tries to fulfill his purpose in the afterlife in an adventurous episode of The Leftovers.

[shapeshifter]

When I watched little Patti climb onto the well and sit on the edge, a lesson from a writing class I took popped into my head.  We were told, by a very accomplished screenwriter, that the audience doesn't like bad things happening to children.  So I wondered what the twist would be.  Kevin wasn't going to kill a kid.  Then cut to the long shot, little Patti starts to speak, Kevin doesn't hesitate and there goes little Patti.  I laughed out loud.  Not because they went there but there was just something amusing with the way Kevin did it.  I may need to seek out therapy.

Heh. I think it was supposed to be somewhat humorous because it followed the set-up of a joke with the punchline being the unexpected, plus she just flipped over backwards in a very cartoony manner and did not get hurt.

[BooBear]

A few more thoughts on this episode

- I have to give it to Steven Williams. His entire demenor changed in this episode as the professional concierge as opposed to that old decrepit pedophile.

- the music was a major part of the joy and fun of this episode. The ultra dramatic music in the background really helped my enjoyment of the episode.

- I didn't enjoy JTs trip out of the bathtub. Something about the tatoos that bothers me. But I did enjoy him in that fine suit.

- I didn't understand why Patti was a child with Neil.  I also don't understand why little Patti almost died in the pool only to be saved by Kevin.

- Holy Wayne is a crap bodyguard too.

- I will be disappointed if Kevin doesn't change in some way due to this experience. I feel like when he was talking to Senate Patti and she asked him what she wanted and he goes "to destroy families" Patti just went crazy in an odd way. It was like it was Kevin who finally made a revelation in his own mind about how he blamed Patti for the break up of his family.  Since Laurie is currently in his house, Nora left him, and Tom could be on route, I would like Kevin to fight to get his family back.  I later saw Patti blaming herself for everthing at the well as sort of Kevin realizing he couldn't blame Patti for all his woes though he still needed to vanquish her.

- was Senate Patti really a decoy?

- I just realized that I am not sure that Kevin knows that his son or daughter departed in utero - wonder if that will come out before the end of the year.

- I was a lost fan and I enjoyed the finale.  So clearly I like this sort of thing.

- I could be wrong but the idea of big trouble coming from the palm print seems unlikely. Kevin is a fomer chief of police. If he says he came upon the car after the girls were gone I think I would believe him. He had no motive to do anything to the girls and actually gave up his palm print willingly.

- I don't think Vergil died to be Kevin's guide. I think he wanted to die anyway and figured this was a good thing to do too. I thought maybe that was why Vergil drank the water, thinking that he had done his job for Kevin and it was now time for him to do what he needed to do.

Edited November 25, 2015 by BooBear

[toomuchtv47]

- I didn't understand why Patti was a child with Neil.  I also don't understand why little Patti almost died in the pool only to be saved by Kevin.

 

It may have been to get his attention.  After Kevin leaves his room for the first time and is walking down the stairs, he notices the little girl standing by the edge of the pool.  No big deal, a kid by a hotel pool.  When he sees her again, she's face down in the water.  Now, of course Kevin would try and save her regardless of seeing her previously, but there's a connection now between them.  

 

Also, Kevin only knows Patti as an adult that he doesn't like.  He never once tried to understand why she was the way she was.  I don't blame him.  Being in child form and seeing how she was treated made her more human to Kevin and allowed him to see where it started.  By understanding Patti's life, he understands things in himself.

 

- I was a lost fan and I enjoyed the finale.  So clearly I like this sort of thing.

 

Me too!!  

 

- I could be wrong but the idea of big trouble coming from the palm print seems unlikely. Kevin is a fomer chief of police. If he says he came upon the car after the girls were gone I think I would believe him. He had no motive to do anything to the girls and actually gave up his palm print willingly.

 

In the preview for next week, there's a quick shot of Kevin that doesn't seem as frantic and wild eyed as he's been.  They may have cut it to make it look like John was confronting him, but I instantly believed Kevin was calmer and ready to get things sorted out.  Then again, promos can be misleading but I really hope Kevin comes back, kicks some ass, gets his home in order and takes some names.

[quangtran]

The problem for me is the way Lindelof chooses to explore spiritual themes almost never clicks with me. This episode was ostensibly about Kevin traveling to the land of the dead to have a confrontation with an inner (or perhaps outer) demon. That's a big, ambitious concept. But it felt like the episode was too interested in tip-toeing between the spy thriller framing device and this big spiritual concept, to the point it ultimately short changed the latter

Even though I didn't care for this episode, I thought this spy idea was absolutely brilliant. The way I see it, the four outfits he had to choose from each had meaning beyond the specific job.

 

- Mapleton cop uniform - this is the default choice for anyone who chooses the enter the afterlife/dream as their existing selves.

- Religious vestments - this is the choice for anyone who chooses to see this as a religious experience.

- GR outfit - this one I'm not sure of, but given the GR philosophy, this is a non-option. This would be like choosing nothing.

- Assassin suit - this is the choice for living out a fantasy. This one is the obvious choice for Kevin because he was often bored to domestic family life, and wanted to escape, and a typical male fantasy like being a assassin would be a perfect fit. It is also the most appropriate given his specific mission to kill Patti.

 

The man on the bridge said that this will change him, so my likely wrong prediction is that not only is assassin Kevin Harvey the person comes back from the dream trip, Harvey is also the person he's been turning into during his blackouts this whole time (and the persona that chose to kidnap Patti in the first).

 

- was Senate Patti really a decoy?

My view is that all he had to kill three aspects of the same person (that being fierce leader, scared girl and broken women).

[shapeshifter]

- was Senate Patti really a decoy?

Hah! So she almost fooled you too, huh? She had me wondering for a moment, and then I realized it was a lie and Kevin needed to kill her if he was ever going to get out of the purgatory-like place. I was so relieved when he shot her and not at all sure that he would.

[Cosmocrush]

Hah! So she almost fooled you too, huh? She had me wondering for a moment, and then I realized it was a lie and Kevin needed to kill her if he was ever going to get out of the purgatory-like place. I was so relieved when he shot her and not at all sure that he would.

I was yelling, "Don't hesitate!  He said, "Don't hesitate!" Do it!"  

 

- the music was a major part of the joy and fun of this episode. The ultra dramatic music in the background really helped my enjoyment of the episode.

 

I agree it completely added to the experience but joy and fun aren't what came to mind for me [at least not while it was happening - maybe after, like a scary ride] Instead I'd say my experience was more anxious and even a little freaked out.  - just like a scary ride, lol.   

Edited November 25, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[BooBear]

Hah! So she almost fooled you too, huh? She had me wondering for a moment, and then I realized it was a lie and Kevin needed to kill her if he was ever going to get out of the purgatory-like place. I was so relieved when he shot her and not at all sure that he would.

 

I wondered if that is why Kevin didn't leave Purgatory once he killed Senate Patti - because she wasn't Patti.  Once Kevin stopped listening to Vergil he recognized the little girl as Patti.

[A Boston Gal]

I wondered if that is why Kevin didn't leave Purgatory once he killed Senate Patti - because she wasn't Patti.  Once Kevin stopped listening to Vergil he recognized the little girl as Patti.

 

 

Proving that despite his newfound demeanor, Vergil was just as lousy a concierge as he was a father.

[stretch]

A few more thoughts on this episode

- I have to give it to Steven Williams. His entire demenor changed in this episode as the professional concierge as opposed to that old decrepit pedophile.

- the music was a major part of the joy and fun of this episode. The ultra dramatic music in the background really helped my enjoyment of the episode.

- I didn't enjoy JTs trip out of the bathtub. Something about the tatoos that bothers me. But I did enjoy him in that fine suit.

- I didn't understand why Patti was a child with Neil.  I also don't understand why little Patti almost died in the pool only to be saved by Kevin.

- Holy Wayne is a crap bodyguard too.

- I will be disappointed if Kevin doesn't change in some way due to this experience. I feel like when he was talking to Senate Patti and she asked him what she wanted and he goes "to destroy families" Patti just went crazy in an odd way. It was like it was Kevin who finally made a revelation in his own mind about how he blamed Patti for the break up of his family.  Since Laurie is currently in his house, Nora left him, and Tom could be on route, I would like Kevin to fight to get his family back.  I later saw Patti blaming herself for everthing at the well as sort of Kevin realizing he couldn't blame Patti for all his woes though he still needed to vanquish her.

- was Senate Patti really a decoy?

- I just realized that I am not sure that Kevin knows that his son or daughter departed in utero - wonder if that will come out before the end of the year.

- I was a lost fan and I enjoyed the finale.  So clearly I like this sort of thing.

- I could be wrong but the idea of big trouble coming from the palm print seems unlikely. Kevin is a fomer chief of police. If he says he came upon the car after the girls were gone I think I would believe him. He had no motive to do anything to the girls and actually gave up his palm print willingly.

- I don't think Vergil died to be Kevin's guide. I think he wanted to die anyway and figured this was a good thing to do too. I thought maybe that was why Vergil drank the water, thinking that he had done his job for Kevin and it was now time for him to do what he needed to do.

 

Bolded mine. It occured to me while watching that the fact that Kevin cut his palm was probably not an accident. I see that playing into it somehow. His palm print doesn't match now because of the cut? That doesn't really make sense, but it can't have been an accident that he was cut there, of all places.

[RedHackle]

 

Then again, promos can be misleading but I really hope Kevin comes back, kicks some ass, gets his home in order and takes some names

 

Word. I think the one thing guaranteed to make viewers like a character and care about them is to show them being very competent.  We saw this a lot with the characters on Lost.  Then the writers would do this odd thing of turning them temporarily into incompetent, mewling pussies. That always drove me nuts.  Remember last season on Leftovers where basically the last thing Kevin does is go charging into a burning building and save his daughter.  Then when he comes out, the look of disappointment/disdain he gives Laurie is shattering.  So yes, it would be super if we could go back to that character.  Not Jack "my daddy didn't hug me enough and that's why I suck at life" Shepherd 2.0

[meep.meep]

Bolded mine. It occured to me while watching that the fact that Kevin cut his palm was probably not an accident. I see that playing into it somehow. His palm print doesn't match now because of the cut? That doesn't really make sense, but it can't have been an accident that he was cut there, of all places.

 

But after he killed Senator Patti, he took off the bandage and the cut was gone.

 

Plus, who knows what happens to your body if you go to purgatory, come back, get buried for 3 days, and finally come back to life?

[Lemons]

 

 

I'm enjoying this show so very much, and it pains me to see/hear that people are frustrated or not getting it. Believe me, I understand post-traumatic-LOST-syndrome, but, as was said upthread, that was a (mostly) matter of the writers getting tied in knots by the network and the framework of network tv. Sometimes you just need to let art wash over you.

 

I LOVED Lost.  I had to watch the episodes twice to kind of understand, but I really enjoyed the show and even liked the ending.  This show not so much.  It don't like watching Kevin waking up in a strange place over and over again.  When a show goes on this long there should be a better sense of purpose and I can't see any.

[ArizonaGrown]

I am wondering about the water thing-  when Evie was swimming with her friends she collected some water then took it home. Her brother was putting the water into little vials to give as souvenirs at his booth. Well Evie took a drink of the water and he almost did the same but someone gave  him a piece of bacon to eat. So I am wondering if her disappearance had something to do with her drinking the water ? or if it has any significance?  

[Eldemarge]

Can someone help me out with this?  Did we ever find out what was in the wrapped box Evie left for her dad?  

[Wouldofshouldof]

I liked this ep.  But then I also loved Lost and never gave up on it, so, yeah.

 

On a side note, I never knew JT had so many tattoos.  

[WearyTraveler]

Can someone help me out with this?  Did we ever find out what was in the wrapped box Evie left for her dad?  

 

No, he has not opened the present yet.  I thought it was implied he's waiting to find her to open it.

[Milburn Stone]

I've now watched the episode in a fully wakened state and--wow.

[90PercentGravity]

And as for the towel.....we've seen the other two major male characters that returned from last season do full frontal (Tom and Matt). Last night was really JT's turn and the perfect opportunity where full frontal would have made sense without being too gratuitous. When the actor who plays Matt did full frontal, I just thought "well, your move JT." But apparently he wasn't down for it. And as a female viewer who has seen more naked boobs on HBO than I ever desired (tons on "Boardwalk Empire" alone), I appreciate some full frontal like in this series this season & I also admire the guts it takes for a male actor to agree to do it. I'm disappointed, JT. All the other male actors on your show are doing it and you're the one I'd really like to see! Ok, I'll stop being a dirty 30-something aged woman now.

I think it would have been pretty hypocritical given that he insisted his wife (then girlfriend)not bare her breasts on screen. I would have loved it, anyway.

I'm pretty meh on the show in general, but I loved this episode and I love JT.

Edited November 26, 2015 by 90PercentGravity

[pasdetrois]

This was the only episode that actually held my attention. I didn't even finish watching the first season.

 

I was in a Thanksgiving food coma as I began to watch and assumed I'd FF through some of it, as I often do. But the acting drew me in, and the episode pulled together a few story threads, which I needed to remain interested.

 

Interesting that Patti returned to her abusive husband even when she had the money to leave him, and that Kevin followed Patti into the well even though he could have walked away.

 

I like the show's theme song. I was raised in the midst of very aggressive Christianity -- "Have you been saved" was practically an every day greeting in my community -- and the song's lyrics speak to my experience personally.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Can someone help me out with this?  Did we ever find out what was in the wrapped box Evie left for her dad?

  

No, he has not opened the present yet.  I thought it was implied he's waiting to find her to open it.

I forgot about the present. I assumed from when. We first saw it that it was the Cricket John kept hearing & looking for in his home in the first episode. I figured Evie found it, killed it, and put it in a box as his present. I don't think we've seen John looking for the Cricket again since his birthday dinner.

[WearyTraveler]

   I forgot about the present. I assumed from when. We first saw it that it was the Cricket John kept hearing & looking for in his home in the first episode. I figured Evie found it, killed it, and put it in a box as his present. I don't think we've seen John looking for the Cricket again since his birthday dinner.

That is an awesome guess! I bet you're right!

[myname2use4now]

I re-watched last night and when Kevin was in the room with Patty, the Presidential Candidate, she said to him (paraphrasing), "It's our landslide and we have to decide whether or not we're going to keep digging through the rubble for signs of life or move on." I thought that was pretty interesting considering the birth scene with the landslide would have happened in pre-historic times. Also, was the bird that the concierge killed the same one that didn't resurrect in the box? Boy, this isn't a show to watch while distracted!  

[polyhymnia]

Just FYI, if you fall asleep at the beginning of this episode and then wake up somewhere in the middle?  Very, very confusing!  I couldn't really tell that I had fallen asleep, though, until I read a recap.  I thought it was a really fun episode - just crazy - until the last third.  Young Patty was a sympathetic character and it really made him come to grips with what he was doing.  I think it makes sense that he did it anyway but giving him some conflict about it was a good touch.

[Captanne]

I'm binging this series over the holiday weekend and this is the first episode I've hated. I'm only at 21 minutes -- he's seeing his father on the television. This is so dumb. 

 

Now at fifty minutes just beyond the bridge and at the well. God I hate this. I'll stick it out for overall plot line. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Captanne