S09.E10: Face The Raven

[John Potts]

elle Does this mean that Clara has now joined the ranks of the nethersphere cybermen

 

Don't be silly - that was last Season - nobody can remember that far back!

 

elle For Stargate:SG1 fans

 

 

I'd have thought the relevant SG1 quote would be, "Dr Jackson will just die when he hears this." "What, again?"

[ganesh]

I don't get why Companions always have to meet a tragic fate. JC is a fine actor, no better or worse than any others, but I don't think they gave her much to do as Clara. Funny enough, the only time I think she dialed in a strong performance was Evil Clara. 

It's not PC's fault either, but I never bought the companionship between Twelve and Clara like I did with the others. Even Ten and Wilf was more interesting. 

I wasn't spoiled at all, so I didn't think Clara was going to actually die. I just kind of shrugged. I think it's time that the Companion format be shaken up a little bit. Contemporary, hetero "girl" (because you know that's what they call her), needs an hiatus. And I don't really mind the NuWho playbook of getting to their personal lives, to a point. 

I'd rather see a Companion out of our time, preferably from the past. 

 

[Pattycake2]

I'm of the opinion that her body will be reunited with her soul, but she'll be so shaken up by the whole being dead experience, that she'll just want to go back to teaching and lead a quiet life away from the Doctor. 

[cardigirl]

But I also think I have pinpointed the moment Clara lost me as a fan and it was when she told the Doctor to "do as you are told."  Here's hoping the next companion is less doctor like.

And for me this is one of the best moments of the Capaldi/Coleman era.  I loved 'Listen,'  completely and utterly, and never, not once, saw Clara as being out of line.  

 

As for companions who have acted like the Doctor, Donna was probably one of the bossiest companions around.  She even became time lordy and that was why her memory had to be erased.  

 

I will miss Clara, but mostly I will be upset at story lines dropped and never picked up again. Sigh.

[benteen]

I don't get why Companions always have to meet a tragic fate. JC is a fine actor, no better or worse than any others, but I don't think they gave her much to do as Clara. Funny enough, the only time I think she dialed in a strong performance was Evil Clara. 

It's not PC's fault either, but I never bought the companionship between Twelve and Clara like I did with the others. Even Ten and Wilf was more interesting. 

I wasn't spoiled at all, so I didn't think Clara was going to actually die. I just kind of shrugged. I think it's time that the Companion format be shaken up a little bit. Contemporary, hetero "girl" (because you know that's what they call her), needs an hiatus. And I don't really mind the NuWho playbook of getting to their personal lives, to a point. 

I'd rather see a Companion out of our time, preferably from the past. 

 

 

I remember reading after JC had agree to return, they "ripped up the scripts" they had and started over.  I think that shows as her character contributed very little to the stories this year.  There was some vagueness about her becoming the Doctor and loving danger.  But it's amazing how little time non-Zygon Clara actually spent with the Doctor from The Woman Who Lived on.  Yes, they were together in Sleep No More but that story was pretty much told from a third-party POV with very little time to see them interacting on their own.

[Mabinogia]

Even Ten and Wilf was more interesting.

 

 

Now Twelve Wilf could be loads of fun. Old Men In Space! I kind of always wanted Wilf to get his chance as a companion.

 

But I also think I have pinpointed the moment Clara lost me as a fan and it was when she told the Doctor to "do as you are told."  Here's hoping the next companion is less doctor like.

I pretty much hated her in that moment. I know it was supposed to make her look feisty and adorable but she came across as an annoying know it all who thinks she's better than everyone, including an ancient alien who has seen more than she could ever even imagine. Just, yuck. I'm not a fan of the idea that the Doctor needs to be taken down a peg and I REALLY am not a fan of some adorable little woman-child doing it. I think the reason Donna's bossiness worked for me was that she was a little older. It just felt less precocious when she did it.

[MarkHB]

I pretty much hated her in that moment. I know it was supposed to make her look feisty and adorable but she came across as an annoying know it all who thinks she's better than everyone, including an ancient alien who has seen more than she could ever even imagine. Just, yuck. I'm not a fan of the idea that the Doctor needs to be taken down a peg and I REALLY am not a fan of some adorable little woman-child doing it. I think the reason Donna's bossiness worked for me was that she was a little older. It just felt less precocious when she did it.

 

I'm really not sure where Clara could have gotten such an ego from ;) ...

 

[catrox14]

Holy cow. I never noticed that she was first billed. That's kind of unprecedented isn't it? I mean even when they changed other Doctors the Doctor either first billed or given the AND. 

[angora]

That was just for "Death in Heaven," when Clara was trying to convince the Cybermen that SHE was the Doctor and "Clara Oswald" was a persona she used.  Capaldi normally gets first credit.  (You can see they use her eyes instead of Capaldi's in that clip as well.)

[cardigirl]

I'm really not sure where Clara could have gotten such an ego from ;) ...

That was well after Listen.  

 

I pretty much hated her in that moment. I know it was supposed to make her look feisty and adorable but she came across as an annoying know it all who thinks she's better than everyone, including an ancient alien who has seen more than she could ever even imagine. Just, yuck. I'm not a fan of the idea that the Doctor needs to be taken down a peg and I REALLY am not a fan of some adorable little woman-child doing it. I think the reason Donna's bossiness worked for me was that she was a little older. It just felt less precocious when she did it.

 

YMMV, I guess.  Clara, in that moment, to me, was protecting the Doctor, as in preventing him from breaking his heart. 

[benteen]

I don't mind the Doctor being put in his place once and while (Danny throwing the Lord thing in his face last season) but that seemed to be Clara's entire job once the Doctor regenerated into his 12th incarnation.

Edited November 24, 2015 by benteen

[ganesh]

I know this is mostly for kids, but I am disappointed there wasn't much of Twelve dealing with accepting he was going to die for real (as Eleven on Trenz.) and then given a whole new set of regens. Maybe that's why he tolerated Clara, because he figured he owed her and that's why he never really reigned her in. Which is a stretch. 

I think the decision to make Clara so so important to the Doctor's timeline was a narrative mistake. 

I'd rather see the Doctor inspiring the companions to be brave and reach beyond what they think they can do, than having them walking around thinking their shit don't stink which is always what I got from Clara. Not the actor's fault, but they just didn't seem to come up with a better characterization. 

 

[penguinnj]

 

I pretty much hated her in that moment. I know it was supposed to make her look feisty and adorable but she came across as an annoying know it all who thinks she's better than everyone, including an ancient alien who has seen more than she could ever even imagine. Just, yuck. I'm not a fan of the idea that the Doctor needs to be taken down a peg and I REALLY am not a fan of some adorable little woman-child doing it. I think the reason Donna's bossiness worked for me was that she was a little older. It just felt less precocious when she did it.

I realize I might have to give this some context- I apologize if this is already known.

 

The line came from The Wedding of River Song.  When 11 asks River to wrap his bowtie around her hand she asks what she is doing and 11 tells her "as she's told."

 

For some reason, when Clara delivers it it just comes across as arrogant- IMHO.  I actually kind of love it when the companions call the doctor on his "stuff"- that's why Donna was great.  But assuming you know better than the Doctor is a character trait that just didn't work for me. But YMMV.

[dr pepper]

Yup, Clara is clearly and sincerely dead. Until she isn't. If the Doctor's timeline is like a rope, she's responsible for a lot of splices in it. Apparently. For now. And until they need to bring her back. And then she'll be back. For the 60th anniversary episode: "The Four and a Half Doctors"

[Which Tyler]

It's almost like man of you guys don't know any teachers.

Bossy, "do as you're told", thinks she knows best... etc etc

All absolutely perfect characterisations for a teacher.

[cardigirl]

I know this is mostly for kids, but I am disappointed there wasn't much of Twelve dealing with accepting he was going to die for real (as Eleven on Trenz.) and then given a whole new set of regens. Maybe that's why he tolerated Clara, because he figured he owed her and that's why he never really reigned her in. Which is a stretch. 

 

I'm not certain whether it's nu Who or if it has always been the case, but how much does the Doctor retain of his previous selves?  At first at least?  They all seem to have to suffer through a "finish cooking" period.  Which is why whatever companion they are with generally has no idea what to do with them.  I mean, I guess eventually they retain all the memories...as they will mention other past companions, and recognize old enemies.

 

I hope the next companion is some hot young guy.  ;)  I'm certain whoever the next companion is, though, there will be people who are affronted by the choice.

[Ringthane]

Holy cow. I never noticed that she was first billed. That's kind of unprecedented isn't it? I mean even when they changed other Doctors the Doctor either first billed or given the AND. 

 

They usually have to negotiate that, don't they?  I know actors can be very specific where their names are in the credits.  Although, how are the end credits for that episode?  If Capaldi's still first, than the title credit order may not matter too much.  I'm not sure how that stuff works in England.

 

But there is precedent - Colin Baker was credited before Peter Davison in episode 4 of "Caves of Androzani", and his face replaced Davison's in the end credits, even though it was Davison's last episode. 

[ganesh]

I'm not certain whether it's nu Who or if it has always been the case, but how much does the Doctor retain of his previous selves?  At first at least?  They all seem to have to suffer through a "finish cooking" period.

 

There wasn't any of that though. And Twleve knows he got a fresh new set of regens. I would have expected a little bit of it. 

[Occasional Hope]

I didn't remember Riggsy at all from his previous appearance; actually, until his baby appeared I assumed he was one of Clara's pupils.

[WatchrTina]

 

I didn't remember Riggsy at all from his previous appearance

Me neither.  And I'm sure we're not alone because I noticed that BBC America has been re-playing Riggsy's episode.  Clearly the powers that be knew that tossing him into such an important episode (the exit of a companion) was going to confuse people.  I understand why they did it (Clara dies due to inadvertently sacrificing herself to help someone else -- but that "someone else" needed to be someone other than The Doctor so, enter Riggsy) but it was awkward.

[Bruinsfan]

Whatever the species, race or original time period of the next companion, is there anyone here willing to bet against it being a heterosexual twenty-something female?

Only if you give better than 100-to-1 odds. Which you probably should.

 

Naaa, nothing can be worse than Ten/Rose.

 

I felt slightly sad and moved when Clara died, but I think that had more to do with the doctor.

I realized earlier this season that I was absolutely ready to say goodbye to Clara so i'm excited moving forward. Next week looks interesting.

Yeah, Ten/Rose grew horrible enough to make me dislike the Doctor. Clara only ever succeeded in making me dislike herself; I've enjoyed Capaldi without interruption from Day One.

 

On that note, his final scene with Clara was a master class in portraying conflicting and evolving emotions with nothing more than facial expressions, going from desperate to vengeful to scared to proud and wistful. Something Doctor Howdy Doody would never have been able to manage with his repertoire of one. This is why I've been yearning for a return to an older actor in the role for years—you need actual life experience to be able to sell a wide range of emotions and attitudes (a few wrinkles and creases don't hurt, either!). And that warning to Ashildr was chilling; this is a Doctor I have no trouble believing is the boogeyman that can freak out an entire race of universe-conquering murder cyborgs.

[StrictTime]

 

 

You weren't the only one -- I had no idea who he was, or that his wife/girlfriend was pregnant in the episode he was in, so I was not really impressed by his inclusion like he was such a close personal friend of Clara.

I couldn't remember who he was, either. I couldn't believe Clara would have given him the TARDIS phone number, when he made almost no impression of being more than a one-off character. Most of everything in this episode, plot-wise, was too convenient, and made no sense, except to get to the aufing of Clara. Which I applaud. Enthusiastically.

[PatternRec]

After watching Tennant in Jessica Jones all weekend, it was kind of creepy to see another Doctor dressed in a purple suit.

 

You may have just ruined Doctor Who for me now...

[Which Tyler]

I've finally put my finger on what I didn't like about this episode, and Riggsy specifically.

Count me as another who didn't know who the hell he was before coming on here, and why would I? A perfectly forgettable one-note character from a fairly forgettable episode whose sole defining feature was living in Bristol, suddenly lives in London with a hotline straight to the Tardis.

It just felt like they wrote this for a character who meant something , but couldn't get the actor, so just few some random in instead. Maybe James Cordon's diary was simply too full, but they liked the bit with the baby so just dug Riggsy up from somewhere, and couldn't be bothered to set diagonal alley in Bristol.

[AmandaPanda]

I never had the hatred for Clara that many others did. I liked her because she's a teacher. I loved her relationship with Danny. I didn't get emotional when she died, though. To be fair, I also didn't get very emotional when Amy left because I couldn't stand her.

 

My biggest issue is that Moffat seems to be attached to having a young female companion and he absolutely sucks at writing women. I'm really hoping that the next season will bring about a regime change, but I'm not optimistic.

[Dobian]

On ‎11‎/‎22‎/‎2015 at 5:56 AM, benteen said:

 

From what I understand, they didn't use Clara Oswin because they didn't want to write a companion that was from Victorian times because it was difficult or something.  It's disappointing that they were that lazy about it.  A show like Sleepy Hollow has shown how much fun it is to write for a character who is way out of his time and it's their MAIN character in that case.

I was very disappointed when Clara became a regular companion that they used this generic modern version of her and not Victorian Clara.  I really liked Victorian Clara, she was fun and her story was interesting.  And having someone from a different time period travel around with the Doctor would have given some interesting perspectives.  Both the original Dalek Clara with her soufflés and Victorian Clara were great.  Her chemistry with Matt Smith was very good, and the Impossible Girl story was fun.  But modern Clara was given a back story that was too cookie cutter, all you knew about her was that she was a teacher and had a boyfriend named Danny.  All of the other recent companions had interesting or amusing backgrounds and people in their lives... Rose, Donna, Martha, Amy.  But they sort of mailed it in with Clara.  They also hit a snag when Capaldi became the Doctor because they didn't know how to write Clara with him.  They finally started to get it right this season by emphasizing his paternal role to her.  I think they missed an opportunity to show Clara gradually drawing this Doctor out of is shell.  Introducing Danny as the boyfriend character was unnecessary and just muddled things.  The focus should have been on Clara and the Doctor alone.  I think that's why it started getting better after Danny was out of the picture.

Her death was disappointing because it just came out of nowhere in a one-off episode, not the culmination of a long story arc.  So Clara's final words to the Doctor, while meaningful, felt tacked on.  Of course Amy and Rory's departure came out of nowhere too, but they didn't actually die, just got sent to another time.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Dobian