B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[KerleyQ]

OK, I'm confused, since I started watching shortly after the whole gondola incident.  So, please, someone clear this up?  

 

My impression was that Hope saw Steffy and Liam kissing, she got pissed and gave her ring back to Liam (who, if I have read things right in the past, didn't know why she gave back the ring?)  Liam then, instead of even remotely trying to clear things up and find out what caused that turnaround in Hope, spitefully handed the ring over to Steffy, figuring "well, since Hope still hasn't slept with me, and she left her ring without telling me why, then I can marry Steffy here and get laid."  Steffy and Bill decided to hurry things up so she and Liam could be married before he and Hope had a chance to get together and talk things over, which is why he and Steffy were getting married in Aspen almost immediately after his proposal (again, with Hope's ring).  Hope found out they were getting married and tried to get to Liam to talk to him before he married Steffy and stop the wedding.  So Steffy and Bill conspired to keep Hope trapped in the gondola, thus Hope ended up watching Liam and Steffy marry from the gondola.  

 

Is that not, essentially, how things went down?  I never got the impression that Hope was on her way to her wedding with Liam when the gondola thing happened.  I thought Steffy already had Hope's engagement ring on her finger, and Hope was on her way to get to Liam and try to stop him from marrying Steffy.  

 

Liam was never, ever possessive of Hope

 

 

He's sure acting pretty damn possessive these days.  And I'd call running to Hope's office and barging in on a private moment between Hope and Wyatt to monitor the status of her pregnancy test, when Hope was still only involved with Wyatt, to be pretty possessive.  

Edited August 3, 2014 by KerleyQ

[meow]

I'll amend that to say they both are guilty of using their daughters to fight their battles. One example of this was the convo Taylor has with Steffy after the Italian wedding where she points out that this was the same shit she, Taylor, had put up with from Old Waffle for years....what any sane mother would point out...only to flip the script shortly afterwhen Lope experienced yet another hiccup...or how Taylor was chomping at the bit to tell Liam about the baby, when she lied about Thomas' s paternity for the EXACT reasons Steffy wanted to keep quiet for. Brooke too only seems to voice concerns until Syeffy goes after Waffle, then goes to do stuff like set up the quicky wedding without either party's involvement.

Hell, even Katie the shrew has used Hope because she was still snarting over her throwing herself on $ Bill, which was why HFTF was created to start with.

I think we can both agree that this show needs more boundaries between parent and children's love lives. The ToD 2.0 is just a continuation of a theme that's been with the show for 8at least as long as I've been watching, when the whole family listens and wails on as Deacon deflowers Bridget.

Luvlee2003, thanks for adding that to the list. I knew I'd forgotten one. Anyone want bets on the over/under on when one of these will actually stick?

I never saw Brooke using Hope to fight her battles. I don't remember that example u gave having happened. Liam doesn't waffle anymore and hasn't for some time but Hope certainly is. Then she takes an almost priceless diamond from a man she was fucking, LIAM'S OWN BROTHER, gross!!

Liam was going to marry Hope at that Malibu wedding and told Bill so, then Shleppy had to come barreling down PCH in time to break it up because she knew that he'd never marry her without some kind of dirty rotten trap. She was perfectly right too because he wasn't ever in love with her as Hope was was always the one.

:)

Brooke doesn't interfere in her children's love lives because Liam was going to marry her anyway so no, I don't agree with it.

[luvlee2003]

I think the problem with Lope for me is, okay I get that these are star-crossed lovers but I just require more than this to be invested. I require better storytelling. More convincing acting. Smarter characters. More sexual chemistry. More romance.

The great Lope romance consists of no more than a week at a time of stability, a boatload of flashbacks to that one preceding moment or week of stability, horrible horrible horrible! communication skills and constant outside interference. What about that should be appealing to me?

They've had six failed engagements. They've only been on the show for like 4 years. I mean I get it, this is a soap and adversity is what it's all about but there isn't enough appealing to me about Lope to make me invested in them after 6 failed engagements. They aren't cute enough, hot enough or interesting enough. Say what you want about Liam and Steffy but they had loads of grown-up chemistry (hell, they made a baby together!). Wyatt and Hope had loads too.

Yes, we can go back and parse through all that happened that led up to each of those failed engagements (Liam didn't know!! Hope didn't hear!! Steffy/bill/Brooke/Taylor/Quinn/Wyatt interfered! Othello saw!! Gondola! Email! Hopeforthefuture!) but in real life those are just excuses. If it were important for them to be together forever, they would be. People who are committed to something make things happen for themselves if they truly want it to happen.

There's a reason Rick and Caroline have so many shippers. They're hot and they made a decision to be together and haven't been derailed by any interference attempts since making that decision. That's how mature, committed relationships work. I care about them because they care and are consistent with each other. As a viewer i also know the writers care about them and aren't just toying with me.

I mean I give it to the OG triangle of doom. Ridge, Brooke and Taylor were all really attractive and had loads of chemistry. His waffling was exhausting but I got drawn in to the merry-go-round because the characters were appealing, had substantial stretches of stability and the romance and motivations were somewhat believable. Somewhat. But the writers have seemingly got off of the Bridge train for a reason. It's exhausting and the payoff began to give diminishing returns after each new iteration. That's how I feel about Lope.

[KerleyQ]

Then she takes an almost priceless diamond from a man she was fucking, LIAM'S OWN BROTHER, gross!!

 

 

Other than "that was then, this is now," I fail to see how Hope accepting a diamond from Liam's half-brother is worse than Liam giving Hope's engagement ring to Hope's stepsister.  To me, it's not even as bad as what Liam did.  While Hope acknowledges that Wyatt likely thinks this is his in to get her back, she's going into this with the mindset that this is about the line, and she accepted it on behalf of the line, not as a reflection of her relationship with either man.  She didn't take off a diamond Liam gave her and replace it with the one Wyatt gave her.  

 

Liam isn't waffling at this exact moment, because his other waffle option is out of the country.  If Steffy was still in town, as soon as Hope got together with Wyatt before, Liam would have been in Steffy's bed, despite what he told her at his and Hope's botched wedding attempt number 532.  Hell, I'd lay decent odds that, if she was still in town, right after Hope accepted the ring at the press conference, Liam would have been letting Steffy "comfort" him over the "betrayal."  

[godfreydaniels]

 

Deacon kissed Brooke and she started to kiss him back. I wish I had the ability to unsee things.

Looked like it to me. I'm getting bored with this waffling back and forth stuff and wish the writers would move on to something else. Bring Stephy back, or get another female for Liam, because in my opinion, he and Hope are about as boring together as a box of rocks. I have no favorites in this show, just wish IIC would make some changes by way of another story line because this one aint going no where for me!!

[meow]

I think the problem with Lope for me is, okay I get that these are star-crossed lovers but I just require more than this to be invested. I require better storytelling. More convincing acting. Smarter characters. More sexual chemistry. More romance.

The great Lope romance consists of no more than a week at a time of stability, a boatload of flashbacks to that one preceding moment or week of stability, horrible horrible horrible! communication skills and constant outside interference. What about that should be appealing to me?

They've had six failed engagements. They've only been on the show for like 4 years. I mean I get it, this is a soap and adversity is what it's all about but there isn't enough appealing to me about Lope to make me invested in them after 6 failed engagements. They aren't cute enough, hot enough or interesting enough. Say what you want about Liam and Steffy but they had loads of grown-up chemistry (hell, they made a baby together!). Wyatt and Hope had loads too.

Yes, we can go back and parse through all that happened that led up to each of those failed engagements (Liam didn't know!! Hope didn't hear!! Steffy/bill/Brooke/Taylor/Quinn/Wyatt interfered! Othello saw!! Gondola! Email! Hopeforthefuture!) but in real life those are just excuses. If it were important for them to be together forever, they would be. People who are committed to something make things happen for themselves if they truly want it to happen.

There's a reason Rick and Caroline have so many shippers. They're hot and they made a decision to be together and haven't been derailed by any interference attempts since making that decision. That's how mature, committed relationships work. I care about them because they care and are consistent with each other. As a viewer i also know the writers care about them and aren't just toying with me.

I mean I give it to the OG triangle of doom. Ridge, Brooke and Taylor were all really attractive and had loads of chemistry. His waffling was exhausting but I got drawn in to the merry-go-round because the characters were appealing, had substantial stretches of stability and the romance and motivations were somewhat believable. Somewhat. But the writers have seemingly got off of the Bridge train for a reason. It's exhausting and the payoff began to give diminishing returns after each new iteration. That's how I feel about Lope.

Leffy and Wype were about nothing but sex and Shleppy tricking and manipulating her way into Liam's life. Characters on soaps can't make things happen, the writers do. The writers wrote that way for Crick but not Lope. Not every couple will be written like Crick because it wouldn't be a soap then.

Leffy made a baby and Shleppy killed it. A marriage can't be based solely on a baby because that's not their job. Leffy was based on nothing but lies, tricks, sex, and manipulations by Shleppy and Bill and they never lasted because that's not what Liam is about. He proved that with the divorce, annulment, and always returning to Hope. Even Liam said the baby wrecked them and I'm glad he finally told her that.

I don't see what being attractive has to do with anything, LOL. Sure it helps a lot but it's the chemistry that counts. Lope r very attractive with tons of chemistry IMO and aren't all about sex, even Hope said that's not who she is. Their relationship actually has a life away from that. Of course sex is a very important part of a relationship but not when it's used to manipulate someone into one like Weanie and Shleppy did. All that is is pathetic!!

Edited August 4, 2014 by radishcake

[meow]

Other than "that was then, this is now," I fail to see how Hope accepting a diamond from Liam's half-brother is worse than Liam giving Hope's engagement ring to Hope's stepsister. To me, it's not even as bad as what Liam did. While Hope acknowledges that Wyatt likely thinks this is his in to get her back, she's going into this with the mindset that this is about the line, and she accepted it on behalf of the line, not as a reflection of her relationship with either man. She didn't take off a diamond Liam gave her and replace it with the one Wyatt gave her.

Liam isn't waffling at this exact moment, because his other waffle option is out of the country. If Steffy was still in town, as soon as Hope got together with Wyatt before, Liam would have been in Steffy's bed, despite what he told her at his and Hope's botched wedding attempt number 532. Hell, I'd lay decent odds that, if she was still in town, right after Hope accepted the ring at the press conference, Liam would have been letting Steffy "comfort" him over the "betrayal."

The difference between the necklace and the engagement ring is that the ring was a trap manipulated by Shleppy and the very expensive diamond is something no woman should ever take from a man she had a relationship with, let alone the man's brother. IMO it's just plain wrong and like Ivy said disrespectful!! Hope can justify keeping it all she wants but it's still wrong because of the way it played into Wype's relationship. IMO she's sending Weanie mixed messages by accepting it.

What Liam did isn't happening anymore and that's the difference. He's totally changed and Hope has taken a relationship with brothers to a disgusting level by sleeping with them. Liam hasn't waffled for some time now and I don't see that happening. Sure it could change but not right now because he knows who he wants and went for it. Then Weanie stabs him in the back giving his gf the diamond, again using it to get her back. He cannot be trusted around Hope and I don't blame Liam one bit for asking Hope to fire him again because he's a cheating, gf stealing dirty rat!!

Liam would not he waffling if Shleppy was around because at the last wedding he told her no more babies with him, said the baby wrecked them, and chose Hope, again. He divorced her once and begged for an annulment the second time and that's not a sign of him waffling, LMAO!! Those scenes r proof that he wouldn't be. :)

Edited August 3, 2014 by meow

[luvlee2003]

I hear you and understand what youre saying meow but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You're right, this is a soap. It is an escape. Attraction has everything to do with it for me. I spend a half hour every day with these characters. They better be sexy, romantic, smart and attractive to me otherwise I'll stop watching. Liam and Hope as a couple are just don't do it for me. They are never together long enough for me to be invested in them. The constant breaking up, reconnecting and breaking up again isn't attractive. It's repetitive and boring.

You bring up the characters only doing what the writers create and you're absolutely right. I genuinely trust this set of writers because they've made the show pretty enjoyable for me for the last several months. So I feel that Lope as its been written at this point is either the writers just toying with me as a viewer (which if so, after 4 years, is pretty crappy of them) or the writers are trying to make a point about how wrong Liam and Hope are for each other. They aren't a fairytale they are a tragic comedy. If I take that position, then all of their failings make perfect sense to me.

The highlight of Liam and Hope for me was the Italy wedding. It was a beautiful location shoot. They overcame some obstacles, Bill was eventually supportive, and steffy was mostly out of the way. But that marriage was falling apart the very next week. Why would the writers do that? The writers aren't incompetent. They know how to write an interesting, fulfilling love story. We've pretty much been watching one with Brill for the last year even if you include the aborted wedding a few weeks ago. They aren't writing one for Lope on purpose. I really don't believe they want me to root for this pairing.

Edited August 3, 2014 by luvlee2003

[meow]

I hear you and understand what youre saying meow but we'll just have to agree to disagree.

You're right, this is a soap. It is an escape. Attraction has everything to do with it for me. I spend a half hour every day with these characters. They better be sexy, romantic, smart and attractive to me otherwise I'll stop watching. Liam and Hope as a couple are just don't do it for me. They are never together long enough for me to be invested in them. The constant breaking up, reconnecting and breaking up again isn't attractive. It's repetitive and boring.

You bring up the characters only doing what the writers create and you're absolutely right. I genuinely trust this set of writers because they've made the show pretty enjoyable for me for the last several months. So I feel that Lope as its been written at this point is either the writers just toying with me as a viewer (which if so, after 4 years, is pretty crappy of them) or the writers are trying to make a point about how wrong Liam and Hope are for each other. They aren't a fairytale they are a tragic comedy. If I take that position, then all of their failings make perfect sense to me.

The highlight of Liam and Hope for me was the Italy wedding. It was a beautiful location shoot. They overcame some obstacles, Bill was eventually supportive, and steffy was mostly out of the way. But that marriage was falling apart the very next week. Why would the writers do that? The writers aren't incompetent. They know how to write an interesting, fulfilling love story. We've pretty much been watching one with Brill for the last year even if you include the aborted wedding a few weeks ago. They aren't writing one for Lope on purpose. I really don't believe they want me to root for this pairing.

It just goes to the star crossed lovers thing but I'm sick of it too. IDK how long we have to watch this but it would seem the writers need to switch things around somehow because viewers r sick of it. This sickening brothers triangle thing isn't working for me at all, it just disgusts me!! IMO it totally crosses the line, even for a soap. I sure hope the soaps read these boards and listen to what viewers say!!

I like attractive too but it isn't the be all end all for me, it's chemistry for me but to each their own. :). That being said I don't want them ugly either, lol.

Edited August 3, 2014 by meow

[KerleyQ]

The difference between the necklace and the engagement ring is that the ring was a trap manipulated by Shleppy and the very expensive diamond is something no woman should ever take from a man she had a relationship with, let alone the man's brother.

What Liam did isn't happening anymore and that's the difference. He's totally changed and Hope has taken a relationship with brothers to a disgusting level by sleeping with them.

 

 

The ring was given back by Hope due to Steffy's manipulations, but Liam is the one who made the choice to give the ring to Steffy instead of trying to find Hope and work things out with her.  That's on him. 

 

And, yes, Hope has slept with two brothers (although not at the same time), just as Liam slept with two sisters.  

 

Honestly, one of the most annoying things about this is that, with JMW leaving the show making it so they couldn't carry on that triangle any further, they decided to essentially re-do the Hope/Liam/Steffy stuff with Wyatt/Hope/Liam, complete with he interfering parent (Quinn) trying to manipulate the situation to get her preferred outcome to the triangle.  Had JMW not left, I'm certain we would still be getting Liam waffling.  The only difference would likely be the addition of Wyatt to make it a quadrangle, and we maybe would have had Quinn conspiring with Steffy to help get things to a Liam/Steffy and Hope/Wyatt outcome. 

 

Yes, Liam told Steffy "no more" but that was written entirely because JMW was out of there.  Before she was gone for good, the show seemed intent on writing Liam as having real feelings for Steffy.  Not the same feelings he had for Hope, but feelings just the same.  

[luvlee2003]

IDK how long we have to watch this but it would seem the writers need to switch things around somehow because viewers r sick of it.

So true.

[godfreydaniels]

Sick of it! As in "move along,there's nothing to see here."

[meow]

So true.

There must be a way they could write it where it wasn't always wash, rinse, repeat!!

[KerleyQ]

Shleppy should have left an ENGAGED MAN ALONE and not gone panting after him like a dog in heat!! When a man is taken, especially engaged but is with a woman dating or otherwise, she keeps her dirty ass paws off of him!! Liam would not be waffling if Shleppy the cow was still here because of what he said to her at the last wedding and he chose Hope like he always does.

 

 

No more babies was written because it was a way for Liam to finally end things with that interfering bitch.

 

 

Two things:  First, yes, Steffy should stay away from someone who is in a relationship, dating or otherwise.   By that same token, Liam should have stayed away from Hope when she was dating Wyatt.  

 

Also, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying re: the "no more babies" thing.  Yes, it was written for Liam to end things with Steffy...because JMW was leaving.  The comings and goings of actors/actresses affect story line all the time.  In this case, Liam needed to be done with Steffy because Steffy was no longer going to be available to them as an ongoing character with JMW's exit.  Had she not left, we have no way of knowing what would have been written instead.  However, given the show's love of dragging out triangles, I'd say it's a safe bet that Liam would not be permanently done with Steffy, and that if she were still around, Liam would not be avoiding her once Hope got with Wyatt.  

 

But, again, these things are my opinion.  If yours is different, that's fine, neither of us has a way of knowing if we're right or wrong unless we ask the writers directly.  

[radishcake]

Hey guys!! Things have been a little hot in here lately and I wanted to make sure that you all were aware of a cool feature we have here on the boards. If you go to to your profile you will see a feature called "Manage Ignore Prefs" where you can add a member to your list and then you will never see posts from that member again. Like magic opposing view points will vanish before your eyes and your blood pressure will lower. :)

Sadly you cannot ignore me. I will always be here to bug you!

[Anna Yolei]

The difference is that Hope and Shleppy r only step sisters where Liam and Weanie r half brothers.

To play Devil's Advocate for a minute....yeah, they're brothers, but they've only know of the other's existence for just over a year. Even without Hope in the mix, that bond wouldn't just appear overnight. I happen to find a paternal half-brother of mine that was stationed on the same base as myself three years ago, and while we amazingly have more in common than the brother I was raised with, there were things about one another we had to accept.

To use another show example, it's the difference between the relationship Ridge and Thorne share and the one Ridge and pre fondry boink Nick shared. There's no excusing Wyatt's behavior, but blood does not make a family for me.

[St3phForrester]

Hey guys!! Things have been a little hot in here lately and I wanted to make sure that you all were aware of a cool feature we have here on the boards. If you go to to your profile you will see a feature called "Manage Ignore Prefs" where you can add a member to your list and then you will never see posts from that member again. Like magic opposing view points will vanish before your eyes and your blood pressure will lower. :)

 

Oh my goodness - it worked! Thanks radishcake! But now I can't see anything in this thread...?

 

 

 

 

(I'm just joking, I love everyone.)

[RuntheTable]

Shleppy should have left an ENGAGED MAN ALONE and not gone panting after him like a dog in heat!!

 

 

Oh, I don't know, maybe Liam, as an ENGAGED man, should have found it in himself to tell Steffy to move on?

 

You're right, this is a soap. It is an escape. Attraction has everything to do with it for me. I spend a half hour every day with these characters. They better be sexy, romantic, smart and attractive to me otherwise I'll stop watching. Liam and Hope as a couple are just don't do it for me. They are never together long enough for me to be invested in them. The constant breaking up, reconnecting and breaking up again isn't attractive. It's repetitive and boring.

 

 

Word. Add in the total lack of energy/chemistry between SC and KM, and it makes for a real snoozefest.

 

Had JMW not left, I'm certain we would still be getting Liam waffling.

 

 

No doubt. Triangles is what B&B does, and once they sink their teeth into one they don't like to let it go. I do think it would have been far more interesting with the addition of Wyatt and Quinn

Edited August 4, 2014 by RuntheTable

[MulletorHater]

They must have something in mind for Lope who r BnB's star crossed lovers or they wouldn't keep trying. That's probably why they do, because of the star crossed lovers thing.

 

They keep trying because they know that once Loopy tie the knot, they will be doomed to backburner hell where they belong.  What compelling storylines could they generate as a married couple?  Neither Hope nor Lame have the gravitas or onscreen charisma individually or as a couple to usher in the new generation.  I won't even touch on the others, including Myrna the Human Burner, who's apparently so thirsty now that I was alarmed about her sucking up to Eric. That's why I believe we are doomed to keep seeing the same foolishness with Brooke, Bill and whatever third or fourth wheel TIIC will throw into the mix until the younger generation steps up.  Never mind that Brooke, Bill, Katie and others in their generation have shown that they do interesting storylines that don't involve triangles or quadrangles.  I deliberately left off TK's Ridge because storyline possibilities are limited due to the actor's commuting issues. 

 

It's a shame (well, not really) that I have no interest in the Triangle of Doom.  Nor, am I sitting on pins and needles biting my nails down to a nub wondering if Hope will make it on time to this wedding.  I also resent that the older characters, who are dynamic on their own, are reduced to playing supporting roles in Hope's wedding dramas.  

 

Deacon kissed Brooke and she started to kiss him back. I wish I had the ability to unsee things.

 

 

Yes, lawd!  The whole thing actually creeped me out.  I think the writers miscalculated big time by showing the clip of Brooke and Deacon's affair, which was pretty hot and intense.  Based on what I saw the other day, that old Breacon magic is DOA.  Unfortunately, for us, that doesn't mean the writers will drop it.  The flashback also reminded me of why that relationship was unsustainable.  Why the writers felt the need to throw Deacon at Brooke just because Bill messed up (as did Mob Hospital with its treatment of SK), I'll never know.  Is there some unwritten rule in B&B's bible that virtually every male has to be thrown at KKL just because the actor wants it?  It's as if there was a writers meeting and they said, "Ooooh!  I've got an idea!  Since Sean is available now, let's put him in the mix with Kelly and see what develops!"  Never mind that there's no rhyme or reason to it or that they spent the better part of two years showing (as opposed to telling) the audience a slow-building love story between Brooke and Bill.  This foolishness here just comes out of no where and makes Deacon look like a delusional tool and Brooke look decidedly weak.  Most of us know when it's time to put the trash out.  Why she refuses to do so is beyond comprehension.

 

It also reminds me of how nonplussed I was when I woke up one day and realized that Katie and Bill were getting married.  When did they actually date, or did I miss it?  I always felt the relationship was a mismatch and as Carolyn Hinsley noted, it's as if the writers rushed through a wedding because Patrick Duffy was going to be available.  More likely, it was stunting at its finest since both HTom and DD are Y&R alumni and their characters were married.  I always felt that Bradley & Co. thought it would be really cool to pair them up on B&B for that reason alone.

 

One of the things I've always given the late Bill Bell credit for was his ability to recognize when something simply wasn't working and then moving on.  Sometimes it was done as seamlessly as possible.  Oh, and he also had actors who understood it was their job to simply act--not make special requests or demands to be paired with a certain actor or actress as Windsor Harmon and Sean Kanan did back in the day.  His progeny has yet to buy a clue and will stubbornly cling to the notion that (a) Kringe are star-crossed lovers just because HTom and TK inhabit the roles; (b) Brooke and Deacon could still be sold to the audience as a alternative to Brill despite the fact Breacon weren't a real couple the first go-round; © and Hope and Lame are star-crossed lovers in the tradition of Bertrice Small's Skye O'Malley and Niall Burke.

 

Meanwhile, great couples like Rick and Caroline get virtually no play whatsoever until they need to find something for Rick to do.

[Anna Yolei]

More likely, it was stunting at its finest since both HTom and DD are Y&R alumni and their characters were married.  I always felt that Bradley & Co. thought it would be really cool to pair them up on B&B for that reason alone.

It's hard to believe it now, but there was a time when these two had chemistry and something resembling a good relationship. Up to that point Katie had only been paired with Thorne and Nick and neither was a success. It was a breath of fresh air when they got together.

Still, it's far from the most marriage. In the eight weeks I was in boot camp, Taylor and Whip went from first date to wedding. Then you got the most useless character in B&B history Maya getting rebound engaged to a man she has yet to go on a date with.

Sadly, stable couples rarely get air time on soaps, but it's not impossible to write stuff for them.back in the early 2000s, Tridge were front and center, even when Brooke had moved on to Thorne and later Deacon. Hell, one of the very first stories I followed was Taylor contracting TB during her pregnancy with the twins.

But I'll take a happy couple in small doses over the marry-go-rounds of soapdom's supercouples like Bridge or Victor/Nikki or any pairing from the last few seasons of ATWT. There comes a point where enough is enough...even those supercouples thst producers ran into the ground had moments of stability that lasted longer than a week at some point in the past.

[meow]

Two things: First, yes, Steffy should stay away from someone who is in a relationship, dating or otherwise. By that same token, Liam should have stayed away from Hope when she was dating Wyatt.

Also, I don't think you're getting what I'm saying re: the "no more babies" thing. Yes, it was written for Liam to end things with Steffy...because JMW was leaving. The comings and goings of actors/actresses affect story line all the time. In this case, Liam needed to be done with Steffy because Steffy was no longer going to be available to them as an ongoing character with JMW's exit. Had she not left, we have no way of knowing what would have been written instead. However, given the show's love of dragging out triangles, I'd say it's a safe bet that Liam would not be permanently done with Steffy, and that if she were still around, Liam would not be avoiding her once Hope got with Wyatt.

But, again, these things are my opinion. If yours is different, that's fine, neither of us has a way of knowing if we're right or wrong unless we ask the writers directly.

Please don't say I don't get it!! The no more babies was so Liam could finally get rid of her and the annulment proved it. It had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with JMW leaving, it's just the way the show was written!!

Weanie should have stayed away from an ENGAGED LOPE, same with Shleppy. When he was living with them he kissed her many times and kept trying to have sex with her and that was totally inappropriate, just like it was with Shleppy. It was also very disrespectful to Liam who allowed him to live in the house with them and now he's still trying to steal her from Liam. Shleppy and Weanie r wrong and Liam had every right to get his girl back from the man who stole her!! Both times Lope were engaged and those two totally disrespected it which is why I hate them so much!!

I'm done with this because we're never going to agree and don't have to!!

Edited August 4, 2014 by meow

[meow]

To play Devil's Advocate for a minute....yeah, they're brothers, but they've only know of the other's existence for just over a year. Even without Hope in the mix, that bond wouldn't just appear overnight. I happen to find a paternal half-brother of mine that was stationed on the same base as myself three years ago, and while we amazingly have more in common than the brother I was raised with, there were things about one another we had to accept.

To use another show example, it's the difference between the relationship Ridge and Thorne share and the one Ridge and pre fondry boink Nick shared. There's no excusing Wyatt's behavior, but blood does not make a family for me.

How long they've known each other isn't what counts, they're still blood brothers and that crosses a huge line. Weanie should have never tried to steal Liam's fiancé, that's just totally disrespectful. It's also totally disgusting and I just don't see how she could do that. Now Liam and Weanie r trying to have a relationship but I don't see how they ever can because of her.

Oh, I don't know, maybe Liam, as an ENGAGED man, should have found it in himself to tell Steffy to move on?

Word. Add in the total lack of energy/chemistry between SC and KM, and it makes for a real snoozefest.

No doubt. Triangles is what B&B does, and once they sink their teeth into one they don't like to let it go. I do think it would have been far more interesting with the addition

of Wyatt and Quinn

Shleppy should have stayed away because they were ENGAGED. Nobody goes after an engaged man in the first place. That's all on her ass!!

I get some don't like Lope and that's fine but there r some of us who do. It makes me feel like I have no right to live them!!

Edited August 4, 2014 by meow

[blackwing]

Hey guys!! Things have been a little hot in here lately and I wanted to make sure that you all were aware of a cool feature we have here on the boards. If you go to to your profile you will see a feature called "Manage Ignore Prefs" where you can add a member to your list and then you will never see posts from that member again. Like magic opposing view points will vanish before your eyes and your blood pressure will lower. :)

 

I too, just used this feature and I am LOVING IT.  Thanks radishcake!  I believe this feature wasn't available on "the other board", or if it was, I never knew how to use it,  and I am finding it especially great in this thread.

 

I really liked [Taylor and Whip].  If HTylo's face has settled again, they should have her back on the show.   It's like Taylor and her tots don't even exist now.   I would like Whip back anyway.  He used to be a cousin of Oliver, I think.   I doubt he'll come back though.

I think they decided Taylor was extraneous once they got "the great Heather Tom" (gag) and decided that whatever storyline they were going to give to Taylor, they would simply give to "the great Heather Tom".  They now have Katie to be the interference in Brooke and Ridge's eternal destiny, so Taylor isn't really needed anymore.  Especially after Jacqueline Wood decided to take a break.  I wonder about Wood, and what her reasoning was.  She had been Emmy-nominated, and was in what was pretty much the central story of this show, and she quits so she can DJ?  Odd.

 

As for Thomas, it's odd to me why he disappeared so suddenly too.  Did the actor choose to go on recurring or was that the typical Bradley Bell "love you today, write you off tomorrow" style of writing?  Where characters that are frontburner suddenly disappear and are assumed to be in town but offscreen?

[luvlee2003]

There comes a point where enough is enough...even those supercouples thst producers ran into the ground had moments of stability that lasted longer than a week at some point in the past.

There was a quote Michael Jackson had in the movie This Is It! where he was talking to one of his band members about not changing a riff or sound up too quickly. He said you have to "nourish" your audience. The thinking being you need to hit folks with an enjoyable moment and let them eat and get full on that moment for a while before you change it up. When you finally do change it up it'll be more impactful.

I always think about that and the problems I have with relationships on B&B comes down to the writers not "nourishing" relationships long enough.

The reason Brill seems to be working is because they've been building for a while now. I feel invested in them and want them to find their way through this current Ridge mess. But they are the anomaly.

Bill Bell was a master at this back in the day.

[LittleIggy]

Hope is an "icon"? ROTFLMAO! An icon of stupid waffling.

Those Paris previews make me ill. I can't take another Hope/Liam nuptialus interruptus.

[MulletorHater]

I really liked that pairing.  If HTylo's face has settled again, they should have her back on the show.   It's like Taylor and her tots don't even exist now.   I would like Whip back anyway.  He used to be a cousin of Oliver, I think.   I doubt he'll come back though.  

 

One of the reasons I couldn't get into this pairing was because I always got the sense that Taylor was simply biding her time with high hopes that Brooke would screw up once again, that Ridge would dump Brooke and come running back to her.  It was like poor Whip was nothing more than a way station until Taylor was able to reunite with the love of her life.  I would also feel better knowing that Taylor had an actual storyline and simply won't be B&B's answer to Gladys Kravitz, always obsessing about "catching" Brooke working her witchcraft on yet another "hapless" man.  I would love it if Taylor had to answer for the HIPPA violations she engaged when she decided to out Brooke's pregnancy at the birthday party from hell.

 

Since TK/Ridge is clearly for HTom/Katie, I'm sure there will be no chemistry tests to with HTylo and TK.  It would have been hilarious watching the show's two pseudo-saints battling over Ridge's worthless hide.

[kia112]

Man, I just don't get it.  This whole emergency PR session?  Really?  It's one thing to have something drop in your lap and you have to hurry to make sure you can ride the momentum, but this wasn't dropped in their lap.  Wyatt knew what he was going to do for at least a day and now he's got everyone scrambling around so that he can drop another "secret" idea in their lap.  Why isn't anyone telling this fool to take a walk?  It doesn't diminish anything to actually have a prepared team to execute strategies.

[politichick]

Hope is an "icon"? ROTFLMAO! An icon of stupid waffling.

Those Paris previews make me ill. I can't take another Hope/Liam nuptialus interruptus.

Ew. Did someone actually call her an icon? She's too fucking young to be an icon and not that great of an actress and her character is juvenile and as you said a stupid waffler.

[LittleIggy]

Ew. Did someone actually call her an icon? She's too fucking young to be an icon and not that great of an actress and her character is juvenile and as you said a stupid waffler.

Wyass, of course, said she was an icon up there with the Eiffel Tower. Barf!

[HotPhoenix]

Wyatt=Ping.  Liam=Pong  Hope is a ball.  This story has become nothing more than a ping pong game with Hope bouncing between both men, with little regard for anything.  It's getting old, boring and not worth watching.  Either this show needs to bring on new characters, bring back old characters (Nick, Jackie, Bridget) or else just shut the thing down.  I was hopeful when they had the whole Dubai story, which was really quite good, but now they're back to the same old, same old.  Well, at least we know Hope's price---a large diamond will buy her heart, and her cooter. 

Edited August 4, 2014 by HotPhoenix

[meow]

Man, I just don't get it. This whole emergency PR session? Really? It's one thing to have something drop in your lap and you have to hurry to make sure you can ride the momentum, but this wasn't dropped in their lap. Wyatt knew what he was going to do for at least a day and now he's got everyone scrambling around so that he can drop another "secret" idea in their lap. Why isn't anyone telling this fool to take a walk? It doesn't diminish anything to actually have a prepared team to execute strategies.

ITA about telling Weanie to take a hike. JMO he's totally useless to this show, him and his crazy mother. I'm just so sick of them and all their scheming and trouble making!!

Ew. Did someone actually call her an icon? She's too fucking young to be an icon and not that great of an actress and her character is juvenile and as you said a stupid waffler.

Everybody has a right to their opinion, SMH!!

[Gudzilla]

 

I spend a half hour every day with these characters. They better be sexy, romantic, smart and attractive to me

You may get 3 of those but I wouldn't hold my breath on "smart", these people belong Under The Dome.

 

So they have another all hands on deck meeting and no one thinks to call VP Brooke?

 

I wish Floating Head Darla had showed up at the meeting and asked why Maya was there.

 

I don't think I have ever enjoyed a triangle storyline in my life. They should be outlawed.

 

I like Quinn way more than Chickenhead.

 

Sorry, I just had to clear some random thoughts out. I only have so much room upstairs.

[meow]

Wyatt=Ping. Liam=Pong Hope is a ball. This story has become nothing more than a ping pong game with Hope bouncing between both men, with little regard for anything. It's getting old, boring and not worth watching. Either this show needs to bring on new characters, bring back old characters (Nick, Jackie, Bridget) or else just shut the thing down. I was hopeful when they had the whole Dubai story, which was really quite good, but now they're back to the same old, same old. Well, at least we know Hope's price---a large diamond will buy her heart, and her cooter.

I don't see that. She's only using it to promote her line. She's in love with Liam and told him so. She should have never accepted it.

[Anna Yolei]

HotPhoenix, I said the same thing about eight years ago at the old board when we had pairings like Bridget and Nick and Rick dating Phoebe and the only thing Thorne and Felicia could do were whine about their parents not being together....add more characters, bring back old ones, etc.

The big improvement from 2006 is that neither Steffy or Hope are dating other Forresters. Besides that, the show's biggest problem of not letting go of failed ideas is still there. The younger cast (that actually exists and aren't fighting mothers and aunts and much older siblings for romantic rivals anymore, thank you Bell for stopping that) are still hollow shells compared to where Rick and Bridget and CJ were fifteen years ago.

If there was any legacy child whose formative teen years should've been a slam dunk to write, it was definitely Hope's. It's like how Y&R fucked up Summer's paternity reveal but worse because Bell Jr wrote the story of Deacon and Brooke himself! Instead, she's become the new Ridge. Or Brooke. Maybe once she actually marries the guy she'll turn into the new Nick and go N.Sane on him.Whatevs .

[Anna Yolei]

Speaking of the old days, someone on YT uploaded a lot of random episodes mostly from '97 from about January to November, during which Ridge goes from trying to stop Brooke's wedding to Grant the day before his own to Taylor, then has the audacity to be pissed at Thorne for telling her that Ridge is still hung up on Brooke...leading her to call off their wedding. I like when Taylor has self esteem, I'd forgotten she was the sane one on the show.

On a related not, one of my favorite TwoP quotes was "Fifty years from now, Taylor and Brooke will be fighting over Ridge in the nursing home, and Stephanie will be meddling from beyond the grave." That one sums up this show and how nothing ever changes.

[MulletorHater]

Hope is an "icon"? ROTFLMAO! An icon of stupid waffling.

Those Paris previews make me ill. I can't take another Hope/Liam nuptialus interruptus.

 

Please tell me you mis-heard things?  Or, maybe the writers need to put down the wacky weed--or at the very least pass some along this way so that I can partake also.  "Icon?"  Hope?!  On what planet, pray tell?  Especially for a chit who's not even 30 years old and has accomplished virtually nothing of any note.  Has she created a patented formula that could turn the fashion world on its head?  Does she actually design the line, including sketching and cutting?  Did she discover a cure for cancer?  Do people wait with baited breath to hear whatever intelligent utterance passes her lips [crickets chirping]?  Does she grace the covers of magazines worldwide?  Granted, Kim Kartrashian graces the covers of various magazines, but being a human urinal who is actually thirsty to be BeYawnce's BFF isn't exactly what I would call iconic either.  So, what exactly is it that makes Hope an "icon?"

 

This is becoming one of those overused terms like "diva," which apparently is used now to describe any woman who can carry a passable tune or wail like a deranged banshee while singing the Star Spangled Banner.  I realize that the writers have to go overboard to prop up their future heroine, but enough already!  All the propping has the opposite effect to me.  Instead of admiring the character they are telling me I should admire, I simply find myself seething and fast-forwarding through her scenes.

 

And, I just can't with the Paris nonsense.

[grisgris]

Please tell me you mis-heard things?  Or, maybe the writers need to put down the wacky weed--or at the very least pass some along this way so that I can partake also.  "Icon?"  Hope?!  On what planet, pray tell?  Especially for a chit who's not even 30 years old and has accomplished virtually nothing of any note.

Nope. Unfortunately, he said that. I couldn't stop laughing. What has that dim bulb done to earn that honor? All she seems to be accomplished at is failed wedding attempts.

 

Why was it necessary to have Donna, Oliver, Aly, Maya and Carter present at the strategy meeting? Maybe some SAG cards need renewing... It still bugs me how Wyatt, a jewelry assistant, is suddenly running all of the marketing and PR campaigns. I wish that Eric or Rick would reign him in.

 

More yadda yadda yadda with Lope with Hope rushing over to comfort cry-baby Liam. I'm betting that he'll refuse to go to Paris with her. Doesn't he ever work at SP? I thought he was a VP or editor-in-chief or something. If he went, that would be a prime opportunity for him to run into Steffy -- that is, if JMW could be convinced to come in for a cameo. Anyway, they are so boring...

 

Speaking of Steffy, I noticed today that Ivy's eye makeup was done in the same fashion as Steffy's "Elizabeth Taylor knock-off" look.

 

That diamond is really ugly and tacky looking. Hopefully, Ivy will come up with something more befitting of an "icon." (Talking about the Eiffel Tower.)

 

OBTW, thanks also to the mods for the reminder about the "Ignore" feature.

[KerleyQ]

I wish Floating Head Darla had showed up at the meeting and asked why Maya was there.

 

 

The level of awesome this show would be if Floating Head Darla showed up here and there as the voice of the audience can not accurately be portrayed in words.  

 

And, yeah, "icon" shouldn't be thrown around for someone who's barely old enough to drink and vote. 

[meow]

Please tell me you mis-heard things? Or, maybe the writers need to put down the wacky weed--or at the very least pass some along this way so that I can partake also. "Icon?" Hope?! On what planet, pray tell? Especially for a chit who's not even 30 years old and has accomplished virtually nothing of any note. Has she created a patented formula that could turn the fashion world on its head? Does she actually design the line, including sketching and cutting? Did she discover a cure for cancer? Do people wait with baited breath to hear whatever intelligent utterance passes her lips [crickets chirping]? Does she grace the covers of magazines worldwide? Granted, Kim Kartrashian graces the covers of various magazines, but being a human urinal who is actually thirsty to be BeYawnce's BFF isn't exactly what I would call iconic either. So, what exactly is it that makes Hope an "icon?"

This is becoming one of those overused terms like "diva," which apparently is used now to describe any woman who can carry a passable tune or wail like a deranged banshee while singing the Star Spangled Banner. I realize that the writers have to go overboard to prop up their future heroine, but enough already! All the propping has the opposite effect to me. Instead of admiring the character they are telling me I should admire, I simply find myself seething and fast-forwarding through her scenes.

And, I just can't with the Paris nonsense.

So it's not OK for someone to say Hope is an icon? Aren't we allowed to have an opinion without being pounced on for saying it? People shouldn't be made to feel stupid for an opinion, SMH!! Was this something that was said on the show and I missed it or what?

[St3phForrester]

Today's episode was the first I've watched all the way through in a long time, and for this viewer there wasn't much to get excited about - except for Ridge & Eric being in the same scene, of course. I'm willing to let the laboured dialogue delivery slide for the chance to see Thorsten Kaye & John McCook exchange sceptical glances at each other, I won't lie.

 

A little irritated to see Brooke finding out about the HFTF press conference via social media alerts instead of, oh, I don't know, her workplace calling her and requesting her attendance at the SAG Card Renewal Meeting (thanks grisgris) like Rick asked the rest of the opening credits cast to be. Is she no longer co-vice president of FC along with Ridge? I thought when her phone went off the first time it was Rick calling/texting, but obviously not.

 

Nice to see Rena Sofer back on screen, but goodness gracious what was with those pants she was wearing? Talk about crazy! I would love it if the show went full-on murder mystery whodunnit with Quinn and this Montemayor guy, but I doubt they will, and if they did it would be an awful half-hearted attempt at something other than a love triangle which will take a roll down Ocean Avenue pretty damn quickly. Shame.

 

Hope/Liam/Wyatt ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. What is Hope's major malfunction? It's clear to Blind Fred that Liam doesn't trust her to make any decisions of her own, be they business or personal, and that is toxic to any relationship, romantic or otherwise. And there's every indication - at least, the writers are telling us - that Hope believes in free agency and "empowerment" etc. etc., so why does she continue to let Liam manipulate her every move? This factor more than anything I think kills the potential chemistry between Hope & Liam because this possessive, borderline abusive relationship is not enjoyable to watch, amongst other reasons fellow posters have voiced above. It's a crying shame that in 2014 we still don't have a strong, independent, frontline* female character for the audience to get behind and acknowledge, if not support, as a figure of the modern woman.

 

But anyway.

 

*Caroline kicks ass and takes names but even before LG's pregnancy I would have hesitated to call her a frontline character like Brooke & Hope are.

 

Speaking of the old days, someone on YT uploaded a lot of random episodes mostly from '97 from about January to November

It's amazing what you can find on YouTube if you know where to look - there are a whole heap of episodes from 1997-98, in German but in higher quality than most clips on YT, and another channel has just about every episode from the point of Brooke's rape to Eric & Donna's wedding (in English), as well as those horrible Polish overdubbed clips from the mid 2000s... I wonder what the costs would be to put every B&B episode up on something like YT and set up a pay-per-view system like some other official channels have, as opposed to the costs of releasing them all on physical DVD. I'm sure it'd be a quick way for CBS to make a mint without having to pay for things like discs, cases, covers, promo material, etc.

[Joimiaroxeu]

like Rick asked the rest of the opening credits cast to be

Why wasn't Caroline there? I know the actress is on maternity leave but has the show explained where Caroline is?

[St3phForrester]

Why wasn't Caroline there? I know the actress is on maternity leave but has the show explained where Caroline is?

I think someone said she was in another meeting.

 

ETA: Linsey Godfrey just tweeted that she's back at work tomorrow (8/5).

Edited August 5, 2014 by St3phForrester

[meow]

Today's episode was the first I've watched all the way through in a long time, and for this viewer there wasn't much to get excited about - except for Ridge & Eric being in the same scene, of course. I'm willing to let the laboured dialogue delivery slide for the chance to see Thorsten Kaye & John McCook exchange sceptical glances at each other, I won't lie.

A little irritated to see Brooke finding out about the HFTF press conference via social media alerts instead of, oh, I don't know, her workplace calling her and requesting her attendance at the SAG Card Renewal Meeting (thanks grisgris) like Rick asked the rest of the opening credits cast to be. Is she no longer co-vice president of FC along with Ridge? I thought when her phone went off the first time it was Rick calling/texting, but obviously not.

Nice to see Rena Sofer back on screen, but goodness gracious what was with those pants she was wearing? Talk about crazy! I would love it if the show went full-on murder mystery whodunnit with Quinn and this Montemayor guy, but I doubt they will, and if they did it would be an awful half-hearted attempt at something other than a love triangle which will take a roll down Ocean Avenue pretty damn quickly. Shame.

Hope/Liam/Wyatt ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. What is Hope's major malfunction? It's clear to Blind Fred that Liam doesn't trust her to make any decisions of her own, be they business or personal, and that is toxic to any relationship, romantic or otherwise. And there's every indication - at least, the writers are telling us - that Hope believes in free agency and "empowerment" etc. etc., so why does she continue to let Liam manipulate her every move? This factor more than anything I think kills the potential chemistry between Hope & Liam because this possessive, borderline abusive relationship is not enjoyable to watch, amongst other reasons fellow posters have voiced above. It's a crying shame that in 2014 we still don't have a strong, independent, frontline* female character for the audience to get behind and acknowledge, if not support, as a figure of the modern woman.

I don't see Liam as possessive at all and he should be very concerned about Weanie due to his master way of manipulating Hope. Weanie is the manipulative one, at least Liam walks away but Weanie would never, ever let Hope be alone for one minute. He was overly possessive and it was disgusting, not to mention all he ever wanted or thought about was sex!! Liam isn't like that. He has every right to distrust Weanie because this is the second time he's manipulated Hope and tried to steal her from her fiancé. I know they're not engaged right now but there's a wedding in Paris coming up so it's the same as being engaged now. Why can't Weanie ever, ever respect Lope's relationship? Why? When a woman is committed, or engaged to, another man IT'S HANDS OFF!!

I think someone said she was in another meeting.

ETA: Linsey Godfrey just tweeted that she's back at work tomorrow (8/5).

I believe it was Rick who said she was in another meeting.

Yay she's back at work tomorrow. That was fast. Thx for the info!!

[Anna Yolei]

It's clear to Blind Fred that Liam doesn't trust her to make any decisions of her own, be they business or personal, and that is toxic to any relationship, romantic or otherwise.

This has totally been a thing on this show since forever. Among those episodes I found was one shortly after Ridge beat the Grant Chambers shooting rap and it came out that he'd sent a letter to Taylor explaining that he was covering for Rick....a letter Thorne (who was dating her at the time) intercepted "for her own good" because Ridge would try to manipulate her as he always does. Boy, do I have a feeling of dejavu here :/

The biggest difference 17 years ago was Taylor was allowed to call Thorne out on that shit, even if it was clear that we the audience was supposed to sympathize with Old Waffle (I didn't). But I'm glad she said something.

Why the hell has this show regressed so damn much? The only woman that really ever spoke her mind was Amber, and even there Rick was quick to call her trailer trash when she did something he didn't approve of. If the show acknowledged Liam's behavior as a manfestation of his own guilt or ever referenced their hit and miss relationship, that would be a step in the right direction. Like the line Bridget got after the now forgotten Logan's paternity was revealed telling Nick "You owe me." Quick, to the point, and what most of the audience had to be thinking after the uears of that marry-go-round. It was shitty enoigh that Hope's issues with virginty were waived away as they were.

[KerleyQ]

If the show acknowledged Liam's behavior as a manfestation of his own guilt or ever referenced their hit and miss relationship, that would be a step in the right direction.

 

 

It would cut down some on my distaste for him if he said something along the lines of "look, I know I was an idiot, and I missed the signs when Steffy and my father were manipulating me, but I'd like to think I've learned from it, and I'm seeing a lot of similarities in Wyatt and Quinn.  I will always be sorry that I put you through that, and it's probably karma that the shoe is on the other foot now."  

[LittleIggy]

Amber was trash.

[LittleIggy]

So it's not OK for someone to say Hope is an icon? Aren't we allowed to have an opinion without being pounced on for saying it? People shouldn't be made to feel stupid for an opinion, SMH!! Was this something that was said on the show and I missed it or what?

Wyatt called Hope an "icon" in the same category as the Eiffel Tower. I know you are a big Hope fan, which is fine, but don't you think that is a bit extreme?

[lizzbert]

I too, just used this feature and I am LOVING IT.  Thanks radishcake!  I believe this feature wasn't available on "the other board", or if it was, I never knew how to use it,  and I am finding it especially great in this thread.

My god, I finally made it past lurking and signed up for an account just to use it here. :) Thank you!

Edited August 5, 2014 by lizzbert

[nasir jones]

Why can't Weanie ever, ever respect Lope's relationship? Why? When a woman is committed, or engaged to, another man IT'S HANDS OFF!!

 

I would agree if we didn't just see Liam parachute in during the pregnancy scare and have absolutely no problem with Hope's idea of dating both brothers when she was in a monogamous relationship with Wyatt.  (That certainly wasn't his idea, but he didn't object out of "respect" for Wyatt and Hope.)  In all honesty, B&B would have 93% less storylines in it's history if everyone adhered to this.

Edited August 5, 2014 by nasir jones

[RuntheTable]

When a woman is committed, or engaged to, another man IT'S HANDS OFF!!

 

 

Wouldn't this logic cut both ways? When Liam and Hope have had their "misunderstandings", why was the onus not on Liam to tell Steffy to move on? How is it he gets a pass on his boorish behavior in excepting anything Steffy was offering? It is totally irrelevant who initiated the contact; Liam as the engaged party, should have put an end to it by citing his commitment to Hope. But oh hell no, there was dancing, drinking, kissing and marrying to do. Unfortunately, all the happened with the wrong person. Additionally, I didn't see Liam respecting Hope and Wyatt's relationship. He allowed them what, about a week of exclusivity, before barreling in with this ultimatum about dual romances and equal dating time? And don't get me started on his unwanted and unneeded presence when Hope was taking her pregnancy test.

Edited August 5, 2014 by RuntheTable