S14.E14: Finale, Part 2

[yeswedo]

A few reminders as it feels like there is a lot of point/counterpoint discussion.

 

• All posts reflect the opinion of the poster
• It's ok to disagree with opinions as long as you remain civil
• You are not obligated to respond to every post you disagree with
• It's ok to share your opinion once, or even three times, and then move on
• The purpose of this forum is to discuss Project Runway, not change other people's opinions

[Kromm]

I think this one image gives credence to the argument that the color story being told is dreadful, even if it's not close enough in to help or hinder any "fit" arguments.

 

 

 

[ichbin]

I think this one image gives credence to the argument that the color story being told is dreadful, even if it's not close enough in to help or hinder any "fit" arguments.

 

 

 

No argument with you on the colors. Yikes, though, the fit and construction are even worse than I remembered.  For one, I'm now noticing the turquoise bra thing under the lace crop on the first look could have used some simple darts.  The models breast looks ready to come out to say hello.  Both shorts have crotch pouches that look large enough to hold a wallet and lipstick...Ashley's answer to Kelly's fanny pack perhaps? The rest....well, I still cannot believe the judges thought this was the best collection presented.  I would think the same thing if the models were petite, plus, or anywhere in-between. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by ichbin

[Kromm]

I realize that most normal models don't have breasts, but looking at the blond woman on the extreme left (with the one bit of jewel tone in the undergarment that's a bright blue), what strikes me is how the top kind of results in her breasts looking like a big shelf, the way the lace over her breasts stops so far away from her body. Then on the side there's a big crease where it joins the rest of the outfit.

 

While bigger breasts are indeed part of the whole plus-size equation, it seems weird to me to consider this some kind of solution to them.  Then further down  on that same outfit there are big creases in the fabric in the middle (at the hips level I guess, not her waist). Do visible creases floating above someone's hoo-ha look good for ANY size person?

 

That's just one outfit of course, but it's the one most clearly visible on that photo. The lady two more over (in the one outfit in a darker blue) seems to have something funny going on with her breasts too (although to be fair, the rest of that outfit isn't that bad).

Edited November 13, 2015 by Kromm

[slothgirl]

I didn't get all the references to easter eggs until now because the outfit I liked the most is the one that isn't one of the easter egg colors. I actually do like the dark blue teal number. I also like the color of the dark greyed lavender, because its a great color on me. Don't like the dress, just the color.

 

But yeah.. take those 2 out (or lighten them up) and you have a package of easter eggs.

[auntlada]

I realize that most normal models don't have breasts, but looking at the blond woman on the extreme left (with the one bit of jewel tone in the undergarment that's a bright blue), what strikes me is how the top kind of results in her breasts looking like a big shelf, the way the lace over her breasts stops so far away from her body. Then on the side there's a big crease where it joins the rest of the outfit.

 

I'm pretty sure you can see the underside of her left breast also -- possibly a bra because surely she's wearing undergarments, but either way, not a good fit, I think. It doesn't look intentional.

 

If the shorts didn't have all that extra fabric around the crotch and if they were longer, would they still ride up as much? In my mind, they don't, but I don't know much about sewing or designing. And what I know about fitting clothes is that it's hard for me to find clothes that fit properly, but these don't look like they would do it either.

Edited November 14, 2015 by auntlada

[mansonlamps]

I've seen a lot of criticism on the shorts riding up, but honestly is there any way to make shorts that don't ride up for a woman whose thighs rub together (plus or not)? Or is the underlying suggestion that Ashley shouldn't have shown shorts?

And I'm being serious. While I don't personally have this issue right now, I have in the past and would love to know what style of shorts would work for me if I gain five pounds because that's all it would take for my thighs to return to rub and chafe mode unfortunately.

[auntlada]

I've seen a lot of criticism on the shorts riding up, but honestly is there any way to make shorts that don't ride up for a woman whose thighs rub together (plus or not)? Or is the underlying suggestion that Ashley shouldn't have shown shorts?

And I'm being serious. While I don't personally have this issue right now, I have in the past and would love to know what style of shorts would work for me if I gain five pounds because that's all it would take for my thighs to return to rub and chafe mode unfortunately.

 

That's why I wondered if they were longer if they would ride up. I really don't know. I no longer have shorts that fit, but when they did, they didn't ride up even though a part of my thighs rub together when I walk but the bottom was below the rubbing together part of my thighs. (On a side note, don't most people's thighs rub together some when they walk? Wasn't there a big deal several years ago about girls supposedly trying for concave thighs that wouldn't do that?)

[Julia]

Heavier fabric helps, and so do looser legs, a longer inseam, a hem slightly longer on the inseam than the outseam, and / or cuffs. None of which would have saved Ashley's shorts, which broke the cardinal rule of fat chick pants: allow enough ease in the rise that the woman wearing them won't have to stretch the fabric out of shape and strangle her crotch to get them zipped.

Edited November 14, 2015 by Julia

[mansonlamps]

Maybe I'm abnormal, but even at my best weight, my thighs touched, and I never had shorts that looked like that.  The problem with the shorts Ashley designed was not between the legs, as it were, but in the entire fit of the garment because it was pulling up....and that wasn't because of friction but because it didn't have the proper allowance.  Ashley may be the next great thing in design, but her sewing details lack finesse (my opinion only).

Looks like I may be the one that's weird. Even while not being plus size, my shorts always rode up when my thighs rubbed. Shorter shorts, longer shorts, any kind of fabric. Even gauchos, luckily I hated those even when they were in style. But it was never just a "touch", definitely a rub in my case, mostly specifically in the upper thigh.

[SlackerInc]

I wish we'd gotten a chance to see the giant wooden hoop skirt in action.

[breezy424]

Looks like I may be the one that's weird. Even while not being plus size, my shorts always rode up when my thighs rubbed. Shorter shorts, longer shorts, any kind of fabric. Even gauchos, luckily I hated those even when they were in style. But it was never just a "touch", definitely a rub in my case, mostly specifically in the upper thigh.

Actually, no, you're not the one that's weird.  It's a common problem and dependent upon how much friction is created by the thighs rubbing together.  Wearing longer jean shorts, tight fitted shorts or shorts made of heavy fabric helps to prevent it.

[breezy424]

What's wrong with easter egg colors?  Swapnil used them very successfully in his decoy collection.

 

http://samisblond.blogspot.com/2015/10/swapnil-shinde-decoy-collection.html

 

I actually wouldn't call Ashley's colors easter egg.  They're darker and have more gray for the most part (with the exception of the light green).  The dark plum and blue were lovely.  Say what you will about fit or style, but easter egg colors?  IMO no.

[Kromm]

I actually wouldn't call Ashley's colors easter egg.  They're darker and have more gray for the most part (with the exception of the light green).  The dark plum and blue were lovely.  Say what you will about fit or style, but easter egg colors?  IMO no.

The darker shades were on 3/10ths of the collection (at least in any large amount).  I think it's not unfair to characterize 7 out of 10 looks being in colors in pastels as being representative of the whole collection (plus on of the 3 that had darker material, the one with the shorts, still had an Easter Egg blue top).

 

And even the darker shades, while perhaps not pastels, were still adjacent.  Although Tim Gunn has, and continues to, give a lot of bad advice on this show, I believe he was right about recommending the insertion of some "jewel tones" into the collection. If a blue-green bra is the closest Ashley came to doing that, then she certainly didn't go along with that advice. Then again, she got rewarded for ignoring Tim's advice?  Must mean it was bad advice, right?  Eh... not if the judges were always going to reward her with a win anyway.

[Kromm]

What's wrong with easter egg colors?  Swapnil used them very successfully in his decoy collection.

Combined with far bolder colors or patterns (silver, a kind of dove gray, black leather, elaborate gold-colored filigree, etc.) It's a MUCH superior color story, because the pastels are broken up by other things that provide sharp contrast.

 

I wasn't Swapnil's biggest fan during the season, but this is night and day compared to Ashley's stuff. It's about twenty times better.

I think the phrase is "hard and soft".  That's what Swapnil's had--that combination. Ashley's just had "soft" (and not very well done "soft").

[slothgirl]

Combined with far bolder colors or patterns (silver, a kind of dove gray, black leather, elaborate gold-colored filigree, etc.) It's a MUCH superior color story, because the pastels are broken up by other things that provide sharp contrast.

 

I wasn't Swapnil's biggest fan during the season, but this is night and day compared to Ashley's stuff. It's about twenty times better.

I think the phrase is "hard and soft".  That's what Swapnil's had--that combination. Ashley's just had "soft" (and not very well done "soft").

I'm getting as sick of that term "hard and soft" as I am of "estetic" and "hi/lo" (and although I know it's industry standard, it really annoys me to hear people refer to "a pant"... it just sounds so pretentious)

 

However, Swapnil's Fashion Week collection had the perfect combination of hard and soft and used that concept more successfully than 99% of the contestants over the years who have tried to explain their look on the runway with the term.

[Broderbits]

Wow, every time I look at Swapnil's decoy collection it gets better and better. There's just no way they could have denied him the win, so he definitely had to be eliminated in order to save Ashley. 

 

By the way, I'm plus-size and could wear several of his pieces. The plus models working for Ashley would have looked amazing in these.

[Kromm]

I'm getting as sick of that term "hard and soft" as I am of "estetic" and "hi/lo" (and although I know it's industry standard, it really annoys me to hear people refer to "a pant"... it just sounds so pretentious)

 

However, Swapnil's Fashion Week collection had the perfect combination of hard and soft and used that concept more successfully than 99% of the contestants over the years who have tried to explain their look on the runway with the term.

Exactly. It's a shitty cliched pretentious term and thus annoying.  Nevertheless that doesn't prevent there from being some truth in it.

And Swapnil did it well, to give him due credit. Whatever any of us previously thought of him. Ashley's efforts look like a joke next to him because of that. Not that "hard and soft" is the only aesthetic that works, but what it emphasizes is that Ashley's looks are boring.  Drab.  And that's before we even get into fit or anything else.

The fact that Swapnil used SOME similar colors to Ashley (but twenty times better) just makes this point sing even more.

[breezy424]

The darker shades were on 3/10ths of the collection (at least in any large amount).  I think it's not unfair to characterize 7 out of 10 looks being in colors in pastels as being representative of the whole collection (plus on of the 3 that had darker material, the one with the shorts, still had an Easter Egg blue top).

 

And even the darker shades, while perhaps not pastels, were still adjacent.  Although Tim Gunn has, and continues to, give a lot of bad advice on this show, I believe he was right about recommending the insertion of some "jewel tones" into the collection. If a blue-green bra is the closest Ashley came to doing that, then she certainly didn't go along with that advice. Then again, she got rewarded for ignoring Tim's advice?  Must mean it was bad advice, right?  Eh... not if the judges were always going to reward her with a win anyway.

Maybe it's because I deal with  color but I wouldn't categorize the lighter colors of Ashley's collection as easter egg colors (with the exception of the light green which I already had sait).  I could go into whole explanation of this but I think it's better to just agree to disagree.  

 

As for Tim, he doesn't always give the 'right' advice.  We've seen that.

Exactly. It's a shitty cliched pretentious term and thus annoying.  Nevertheless that doesn't prevent there from being some truth in it.

And Swapnil did it well, to give him due credit. Whatever any of us previously thought of him. Ashley's efforts look like a joke next to him because of that. Not that "hard and soft" is the only aesthetic that works, but what it emphasizes is that Ashley's looks are boring.  Drab.  And that's before we even get into fit or anything else.

The fact that Swapnil used SOME similar colors to Ashley (but twenty times better) just makes this point sing even more.

You missed my point.  It seemed to me you were criticizing the 'colors' in of themselves.  My point was that easter colors can look great.  Swapnil's collection was an example.  It was about easter egg colors.  Nothing else.  Bringing in the aesthetic is a different story which didn't come across IMO in your post.  But whatever.....

Edited November 16, 2015 by breezy424

[Kromm]

As for Tim, he doesn't always give the 'right' advice.  We've seen that.

Are we even mostly disagreeing here? I said:

 

 

Although Tim Gunn has, and continues to, give a lot of bad advice on this show

I just pointed out (the one part you don't seem to agree on) that THIS time I thought he was right.  Although after seeing Swapnil's successful looks in his mock collection, I now think it's not Tim's specific advice that was correct (jewel tones) but the more general idea that Ashley's stuff had no contrast--which Swapnil's stuff did. Swapnil accomplished that contrast with metallic fabrics and accessories (which was not the advice Tim gave to Ashley, but it's at least possible that Jewel toned stuff might have too).

[backgroundnoise]

Color was the least of the problems with Ashley's collection, IMO.

[ichbin]

Anyone watch Adele on SNL last night?  Now that was a great plus size design she was wearing!  It had fringe, a large exposed zipper, and still looked chic, fitted,  and figure flattering.  I've seen photos of her walking around in New York this week and she always looked good.  One of the outfits was gauchos with a cropped top..also really nice, but probably because the crop was modest and fit well.  The difference between whoever has been creating clothes for Adele and Ashley is that Adele's designers obviously want their client to look good and take a larger frame into consideration. 

[sinkwriter]

 

The difference between whoever has been creating clothes for Adele and Ashley is that Adele's designers obviously want their client to look good and take a larger frame into consideration.

 

They're probably a lot more experienced, too. I'd like to see what Ashley's designing in another 5+ years. If it's still bad, well... there you go. But experience does wonders for a total newbie.

[Aging Goth]

I actually had no problem with the styles Ashley put out on the runway, I had a problem with the materials.  The prints were to old and grannyish and the lace was just uninspired.  The colors were at best pedestrian and some outfits were outright unflattering.  I had no problem with the crop tops but paired with a conforter skirt or a high school sewing class skirt just don't look good.  Also for the curvy girl, you make short long enough and snug enough to not ride up between the legs.

[Guest]

I hope next season someone is cast who specifically designs clothes for the other 'real women'-- those of us between stick figure and obese.  Though of course that wouldn't be a winning platform.  

[sasha206]

The show is making a ridiculous (and frankly horribly condescending) political-correctness-driven statement.  

 

Ashley's collection wasn't just bad. It was ludicrously bad. Rewarding it to seem to "accept" plus-size (or maybe exploit it) should terribly insult every plus sized woman who actually kills herself to look good. Turns out they can just wear horrible lace, in putrid pastel colors, with bad fit and form choices.

 

I absolutely hated Ashley's line. To me, it looked like a slutty Easter or slutty Bridesmaid collection.  And while it's great to see plus-sized fashion, how many plus-sized women want to walk around in a crop top?  The floral headpieces were so awful, I couldn't get over it.  She should not have won.

 

That said, I hated nearly everything Kelly put down the runway the entire season.  I like her, but I think her design aestethic is tacky.  I could've supported her if she turned the corner to put some creativity in some fashion forward clothing that could be worn by anyone who doesn't think retro = 80s.    

 

I think the fix was in to have it be down to both of the designers because of their backstories.  The overweight, bullied girl representing an underrepresented demographic in fashion to the self-taught, grew up poor made her own clothes because of being bullied for wearing previously owned clothing, who now works for a deli.

 

Edmond has talent.  Candice who annoyed the hell out of me has talent.  They could dress anyone in my opinion.  Candice just has to stop with the goth type of stuff, but she is capable of making beautiful clothes.

[Canada]

Okay, so I only just saw this season, thanks to not getting PR in Canada for a long time.  And it was an awful finale!  I am definitely what would be called plus-sized and I wouldn't touch Ashley's clothes.  Not just the ones in the finale, but everything she has made all season.  Awful stuff.  Can't believe that she won.  Edmund was robbed!!

[caci]

Yeah, it was pretty bad and has really put me off the whole show. I can't say I will never watch again, but it will definitely not be the same.