S02.E04: Fear And Trembling

[tljgator]

 

That heartbreaking aria (cantata?) that played near the end, as Floyd and company were returning home to prepare for war, was beautiful. If anyone recognizes it, please identify it.

Should Be Working, someone ("Jimothy") in the comments over at HitFix added some comments to Sepinwall's review about the classical music throughout:

 

 

To add to your list of songs heard tonight, don't forget the Mahler that was playing during Hanzee's investigation of the Blomquist residence, 'Der Abschied' ('The Farewell') from Das Lied von der Erde (The Song of the Earth). Not to nitpick, but I thought it was an interesting and possibly foreshadow-y selection.

 

If anyone is curious, this is the translation of the excerpt played:

He dismounted and handed him the drink

of Farewells. He asked him where

he would go and why it must be.

He spoke, his voice was quiet. Ah my

friend,

Fortune was not kind to me in this world.

...It was the same piece during the Dodd/Floyd scene in the car. Specifically the "He dismounted and handed him the drink of Farewells. He asked him where he would go and why it must be" part.

There were also a couple of lines Brahms motet, "Warum ist das Licht gegeben" (Why has light been given) during the hospital parking lot shooting with Otto, bleeding into the scene with Floyd and the KC syndicate. There were only a handful of words included in this episode from the opening stanza:

Why has light been given to the weary of soul,

And life to the troubled hearts? Why?

They who wait for death, and it doesn’t come;

They who dig for it even out of secret places;

Those who almost rejoice and are happy

That they achieve the grave. Why?

And to the man whose way is hidden,

And from whom God himself has been concealed?

Why?

[jnymph]

It's so cool to see a more mature woman like Jean Smart get a kick ass role.

[bosawks]

It's so cool to see a more mature woman like Jean Smart get a kick ass role.

 

The Revenge of Charlene Frazier-Stillfield.

Edited November 5, 2015 by bosawks

[TheDancinMonarch]

What's with the Ronald Reagan fixation?  Massacre at Sioux Falls?  Moonbase Freedom?  Wasn't he in enough bad real movies without having to make up fake ones?

[cpcathy]

That's the thing, we don't know yet. We do know Ronny will actually show up later, we just don't know the context!

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Fargo's Floyd Gets Down To Business
Of course she does: Floyd rules.

[Mean Machine]

 

 

The best part of this episode was Dodd's double take to the kid ordering an old fashioned.

 

 

That part cracked me up so much.  Almost reminiscent of Pulp Fiction, when the Wolf turned around and smiled about how great the coffee was.

[editorgrrl]

What's with the Ronald Reagan fixation? Massacre at Sioux Falls? Moonbase Freedom? Wasn't he in enough bad real movies without having to make up fake ones?

You have to get permission to use real films.

That's the thing, we don't know yet. We do know Ronnie will actually show up later, we just don't know the context!

Spoilers: http://www.ew.com/article/2015/07/09/fargo-bruce-campbell-ronald-reagan

Edited November 4, 2015 by editorgrrl

[ChipBach]

Peggy is a great character tho.  I love how Kirsten is playing her, especially tonight.  I think the saying is "Dumb as a Fox", loved how she acted vulnerable right up until the time Ed was going to spill the beans, then she took control of the direction of the conversation without missing a beat.  Thought that was one mighty fine piece of acting.  (And I've never been a huge Dunst fan)

[bmoore4026]



Jesse Plemmons fat ass AND the top of Michael Hogan's ass crack...yikes!

 

Mr. Plemmons makes a rather nice chub.

[Mama No Life]

Peggy is a great character tho.  I love how Kirsten is playing her, especially tonight.  I think the saying is "Dumb as a Fox", loved how she acted vulnerable right up until the time Ed was going to spill the beans, then she took control of the direction of the conversation without missing a beat.  Thought that was one mighty fine piece of acting.  (And I've never been a huge Dunst fan)

 

Agreed.  I almost didn't watch this season because I dislike her so much but she has been terrific.

[BeatLA24]

I enjoyed the use of Devo's "Too Much Paranoias" during the donut shop scene. It fit the mood of Dodd taking his nephew on a random beat down of some of the KC crew's men.

[Andromeda]

Will Peggy bite it before or after she becomes the best Peggy she can be?

Hah! Whenever I hear Lifespring, I think of Mind Head from Bowfinger. Lifespring was pretty controversial, when all was said and done.

 

Her boss is doing her no favors coming between her and her husband. I get what she's saying, but it's really not her damned business what Peggy and her husband decide to spend money on. Reminds me of a friend I had once who's marriage was falling apart, who saw everyone else's marriages through that lens.

 

The time sequence of the checks clearing doesn't really make sense -- the down payment check for the butcher's shop didn't clear, so it was written at least a day or two earlier. More like episode 1, I think. But Peggy just now tried to get back the money from her boss for the Lifespring seminar, making it sound like she just gave it to her (since she was on the fence about attending), so that check was still in the mail, meaning it probably hadn't yet arrived and cleared. So the bounce should have occurred with the seminar check rather than the down payment check, especially since it had to travel through the mail, and the butcher shop owner was handed the downpayment check.

 

But that's a quibble. Ed is so trusting and stupid, I keep waiting for him to really blow his stack. After all he's done for his wife, I expect his resentment to build to volcanic proportions. But it might be too late. He was so on the verge of 'fessing up to Lou, but his wife got in the way -- again! Frustrating, but funny, too.

 

You have to get permission to use real films.

Yup. that's why it's almost a trope now that when a TV person is watching TV, it's either an old black and white movie (past copyright, like the Keystone Cops) or a generic nature/wildlife show. It happens so much, it often pulls me out of the story.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Andromeda

[SteveAC10]

 

But Peggy just now tried to get back the money from her boss for the Lifespring seminar, making it sound like she just gave it to her (since she was on the fence about attending), so that check was still in the mail, meaning it probably hadn't yet arrived and cleared.

I assumed Peggy had given the money to her boss - who could have sent one check for both of them. Since this is likely a one bank town in 1979, money would come out of accounts pretty quickly if all involved were local.

[jnymph]

Agreed. I almost didn't watch this season because I dislike her so much but she has been terrific.

Same here!

Never cared for her, but in this role I'm pleasantly surprised by KD. She's really embracing the Peggy persona.

Edited November 5, 2015 by jnymph

[Conan Troutman]

BTW, "Hanzee" doesn't sound like a Native American name. Does anyone know if it has a meaning in Dutch or German or whatever ethnic group is dominate in N. Dakota/Minnesota? Seems like that would be a hidden clue of some kind.

 

It sounds like "Hansi", a pet name of "Hans", which derives from "Johannes" - the German version of John, meaning "God is gracious". No idea how that could possibly relate to the character, though.

[applecrisp]

What is an 'old fashioned donut'?

 

I am liking this a little better than the first season.  I did watch it recently however and I am really enjoying viewer's comments.  They really add to a show like this.

[bosawks]

What is an 'old fashioned donut'?

 

I am liking this a little better than the first season.  I did watch it recently however and I am really enjoying viewer's comments.  They really add to a show like this.

 

I think it's a donut that doesn't believe in marriage equality........

[cpcathy]

Old fashioned donuts are really good! It's a cake donut with glaze or chocolate,

[Pagali]

It sounds like "Hansi", a pet name of "Hans", which derives from "Johannes" - the German version of John, meaning "God is gracious". No idea how that could possibly relate to the character, though.

 

Actually, that does make sense. Dodd called him "The half-breed" at least once. So... maybe his name IS Hans!

[Conan Troutman]

Actually, that does make sense. Dodd called him "The half-breed" at least once. So... maybe his name IS Hans!

Ah, I didn't notice that. Maybe that's why he's so close to the Gerhardt family? His father/mother could've migrated together with Otto, maybe they were even related and he is actual family.

 

Anyway, the gracious part doesn't seem to add up. Unless that's the foreshadowing part. He could spare someones life (Ed and/or Peggy? Lou?) or get spared himself. Maybe after some religious epiphany, which doesn't seem too out of left field, not with the aliens and whatnot. Jules from Pulp Fiction comes to mind.

 

ETA: Googled some of the other names, especially the Gerhardts. We got:

- Floyd: Coming from Lloyd, which means "grey" in Welsh

- Otto: From the Old High German "ot", meaning possession or, more relevant for us, inheritance

- Simone: Hebrew, "one who hears"

 

And Rye and Bear, who are fairly obvious. Some of the others:

 

- Ed: From the Old English "ead", meaning protector

- Hank: From Henry, the root we're looking for here is "haim", another High Old German one, meaning "home"

- Lou: From Louis, from Frankish Chlodowig, which translates to "famous warrior" or "famous in battle", we'll get to see him in action eventually in the massacre of Sioux Falls

Edited November 5, 2015 by Conan Troutman

[Pagali]

Ah, I didn't notice that. Maybe that's why he's so close to the Gerhardt family? His father/mother could've migrated together with Otto, maybe they were even related and he is actual family.

 

Or maybe he's even Otto's son? Dodd's half-brother? 

[SteveAC10]

 

What is an 'old fashioned donut'?

It's a heavier cake donut with lots of crispy edges - the tops look like an overbaked cake

 

[shapeshifter]

The scene with Lou's Vietnam story analogy was perfection of writing, direction, and acting, as well as unobtrusive camera work and set decor. It was storytelling at its best in which a common illustration is used to uncommon effect.

Will Peggy bite it before or after she becomes the best Peggy she can be?

Many above are predicting Ed will pay and Peggy will skate--as we are undoubtedly supposed to think at this point--but I think the reverse is just as likely. I don't think Ed is so much "dumb" as under Peggy's spell--which is interesting considering that she is under her boss's Life Spring spell.

Surprisingly convincing make-up work on Michael Hogan in the opening flashback.

That was him??!! I was sure they were just dubbing his voice.

Time and Place little details the show is getting right:...

Time: It really struck me that something was missing from the clinic when they wheeled Otto to the front steps. A ramp

Yeah, as late as my first library class in the early '90s we were taught about deadlines for implementations for the ADA (Americans with Disabilities Act).

[applecrisp]

It's a heavier cake donut with lots of crispy edges - the tops look like an overbaked cake

 

Thanks. Love these types. Entenmanns has them and Starbucks.  A few extra calories.

 

Was on the AV Club board and someone pointed out that this show actually has good guys in it.  I think of them as simply decent. Lou and Hank are decent people doing their jobs as best they can.  It is refreshing.  

 

So far i am enjoying this season a little better because everything is tied together more. Peggy is probably a sociopath but she did not set out to murder anyone.  Lester made the decision to kill his wife even though it was not premeditated.  Ed and Peggy are getting swept up in this mess.  What they did was wrong and they have been callous about it but now they are in the middle of a war and may not come out of it.

 

I kind of rooted for Lester but he really was stone cold.  I am not rooting for Peggy and a little for Ed. I agree with most he will not get through this.

[A Boston Gal]

Could the mods please prevent any more repostings of the old-fashioneds? The drool is really messing up my keyboard...

[louispaul]

Hi Guys,

 

In the scene when Skip Sprang is taken from an apartment by the blonde and the Indian henchman, there is a poster to the right of the apartment door, any ideas who is the artist.

 

Cheers

[ChipBach]

Or maybe he's even Otto's son? Dodd's half-brother? 

 

I was wondering if "half breed" meant "half Gerhardt" and that is why he is allowed to stay in the room to talk business after Floyd throws everyone else out and his loyalty to Dodd.

[polyhymnia]

I've kept all the episodes on my DVR from this season but I particularly want to watch episodes 3 and 4 again.  So tight and well-done.

[cpcathy]

I thought the second episode was the best so far, overall.

[Paws]

I love Patrick Wilson in this...he's perfect as the younger Lou...even his positioning in the chair as he sat out all night was similar to how older Lou sat out all night in Season 1. Lou we know will get his leg hurt, so we have that coming. At least we know he won't die.

I'm wondering if Betsy will die not from the cancer but by somehow being in the wrong place while figuring out another part of the crime.

I wonder if we'll see Lou's move to Bimidji? Isn't that where he lives in Season one?

Edited November 7, 2015 by Paws

[scrb]

Yeah I think Lou is a little too sharp for a small town cop, even if he's a state cop.

 

Are state troopers taught to reconstruct crime scenes?

 

He's a Vietnam vet so maybe no college.  Usually in a big city homicide dept, they're getting the creme de la creme of the police force.

 

Lou figured out the sequence of events in the diner and out in the parking lot just from the blood splatter, as Hanzee later did with his mystical Indian powers.

 

That's like the famous scene with Bunk and McNulty figuring out the crime scene, while just saying "fuck" to each other.  They could reconstruct it based on the blood splatter, like Dexter.

 

Of course these shows are taking dramatic license in speeding up the investigations.  And Hawley said he wanted to be respectful to these small town, "hard-working" people.

 

I don't know though, how often do small town cops crack big criminal conspiracies?

 

Presumably, in the end, Lou takes down or outwits the Gerhards (who don't seem bright but have been successful for decades) and the KC mob.  In real life, it of course took the FBI and large task forces of federal, state and local law enforcement to take down large criminal organizations.

Edited November 8, 2015 by scrb

[shapeshifter]

Yeah I think Lou is a little too sharp for a small town cop, even if he's a state cop.

 

Are state troopers taught to reconstruct crime scenes?

 

He's a Vietnam vet so maybe no college.  Usually in a big city homicide dept, they're getting the creme de la creme of the police force.

Yeah, as we commented in the previous episode thread, Lou's backstory doesn't necessarily sync up perfectly with historical events mentioned. For me, that's okay because the text shown at the beginning of each episode states that it's a "true story" rather than a fact checked documentary, and people's memories of events are notoriously inaccurate. Good storytelling almost requires poetic license with regards to facts.

Anyway, IIRC (heh) I knew a guy who got drafted after 1971 (when I first met him) and sent to Southeast Asia after he graduated from college. I think he even started law school but dropped out and then got drafted, but my memory is definitely fuzzy on that part. Still, he would have been at least 21 when he got drafted and a college grad.

[Dev F]

Is there a reason for Mike's removal of Otto's hat?

 

I thought it was a message—I was thisclose to him.

 

It was also a sign of disrespect, I think. You're in the presence of your betters. Take off your hat. That would be a sad parallel to the flashback at the beginning of the episode, where Otto's rival demands similar fealty -- "Ain't no table. There's me. Everybody else sits on the floor" -- but this time Otto's in no position to defy him.

 

I love Patrick Wilson in this...he's perfect as the younger Lou...even his positioning in the chair as he sat out all night was similar to how older Lou sat out all night in Season 1.

 

I actually wonder if this was meant to be the incident he told Greta about at the end of season 1:

 

"You ever do this before? Stand guard?"

 

"One other time, winter of 1979. Minus four degrees. Sat on a dark porch from dusk till dawn. Your stepmom was inside sleeping. Four years old."

 

"Who did you think was coming?"

 

"It wasn't a question of who. More like what."

 

"Did it come?"

 

"Not that night. But soon after."

 

Some of the details don't exactly match up -- in addition to Molly's age having been retconned, the Solversons don't actually have a porch per se -- but ever since we learned that Molly's mom is dying of cancer, I've wondered if the "what" Lou was waiting for was not some lurking murderer but Death more generally. That he was sitting watch because he knew his wife was about to die, and he didn't know what else he could do.

 

And, of course, the first episode ended with the song "Didn't Leave Nobody but the Baby" -- a version in which the lines "Your mama's gone away and your daddy's gone to stay" have been changed to ". . . and your daddy's gon' stay." A lot of the season, I think, is going to be about Lou coping with the prospect of having to raise his daughter alone.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Dev F

[Should Be Working]

Some of the details don't exactly match up -- in addition to Molly's age having been retconned, the Solversons don't actually have a porch per se -- but ever since we learned that Molly's mom is dying of cancer, I've wondered if the "what" Lou was waiting for was not some lurking murderer but Death more generally. That he was sitting watch because he knew his wife was about to die, and he didn't know what else he could do.

 

And, of course, the first episode ended with the song "Didn't Leave Nobody but the Baby" -- a version in which the lines "Your mama's gone away and your daddy's gone to stay" have been changed to ". . . and your daddy's gon' stay." A lot of the season, I think, is going to be about Lou coping with the prospect of having to raise his daughter alone.

 

I think most people took those comments from Lou's  character in Season 1 as a reference to an earlier slaughter by Lorne Malvo. He'd already made reference to bodies that stacked as high as a house when he had that odd encounter with Malvo in the diner.

 

Since the death and slaughter in Season 2 seems destined to originate with the Gerhardts and the Kansas City mob (with a small assist from Ed and from Betsy's cancer) , we can pretty much rule out any possibility of a younger Malvo existing one of those ever-present UFOs to commit a 1979 bloodbath.

 

You might very well be right that the Season 2 Lou was standing watch against Betsy's impending death from her cancer. Although I'm not sure he knew just how bad her prognosis was at the time (I recall that  scene preceded the oncologist's mention of metastisis, but could be wrong).

[hendersonrocks]

Goodness, I cannot wait to see how and when Ed and Peggy go down. That scene with Lou in their living room was so spectacular.

 

I'm loving the Gerhardts. From Floyd to Simone to my favorite, Charlie, I think they are fascinating and not long for this world. And speaking of, that Solverson scene with the doc ripped my heart out. Cristin Miloti is doing such good work at Betsy.

 

Finally, Luverne is NOT the home of the Fighting Braves - that was written in small letters under the Welcome to Luverne sign as Hanzee drove into town. We're the Cardinals and are darn proud of our redbirds. 

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I noticed some type of video effect when Hanzee found the glass.  It was definitely an attempt to display a sense of mysticism as I saw it.

 

My issue with suspension of disbelief about Hanzee was his ability to slink out of the house, VERY much like Malvo impossibly did right after the murder of the Chief at Lester's house.  Lou was at the door.  He would have seen Hanzee's car.  There was also no hint of dirt or water on the hardwood floor where Hanzee had entered.  It was pristine.  As cool as Hanzee is, and that he was perfectly fine with showing himself to Ed during the drive-by, why would he have felt the need to hoof it from the woods where he would have parked the car?  There would have been stuff on his boots from such a hike.  And the floor was pristine.

 

I do love the building dread.  Very well done.  Well earned.

[AuntiePam]

Speaking of Hanzee possibly being related to the Gerhardts, I wonder if his sister was married to Bear -- Charley looks Native American to me.   

[AuntiePam]

Okay then, rewatched the episode where Bear talks to Hanzee, about how the family took him in when he was nine or ten years old, so there's no sister married to Bear. 

 

But I look at Hanzee and Charley and think John Redcorn and his son Joseph, from King of the Hill.  But that would make Bear Dale Gribble, and Bear might be thick, but he's not that thick. 

[Guest]

On 11/28/2015 at 10:52 AM, AuntiePam said:

Okay then, rewatched the episode where Bear talks to Hanzee, about how the family took him in when he was nine or ten years old, so there's no sister married to Bear. 

 

But I look at Hanzee and Charley and think John Redcorn and his son Joseph, from King of the Hill.  But that would make Bear Dale Gribble, and Bear might be thick, but he's not that thick. 

I'm watching so much later but I've been thinking from the start that Charley could be Hanzee's son, not Bear's, just they're not smart enough to see the resemblance and suspect it.  So Hanzee was sleeping with Bear's wife?  

[AuntiePam]

3 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm watching so much later but I've been thinking from the start that Charley could be Hanzee's son, not Bear's, just they're not smart enough to see the resemblance and suspect it.  So Hanzee was sleeping with Bear's wife?  

We don't know but the resemblance is amazing.   However, we never see Bear's wife -- she may have been Native American, so Charley may well be Bear's natural child.