S05.E05: Better Call Saul

[ElectricBoogaloo]

The hacktivists rise up; Quinn covers for Carrie; Dar and Allison assess the damage.

 

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

[Constantinople]

When I saw the episode title, I thought I was in the wrong forum.

 

I guess the writers are fans.

 

We'll know they're trolling us if we see Saul eating a Cinnabon roll.

[slowpoked]

Quinn: She likes me, what can I say?

 

Carrie: Her one redeeming quality, I guess.

 

Heee!! At least Carrie and Astrid seem to agree on something.

[Primetimer]

Allison tries not to freak out. Quinn tries not to pass out. Carrie tries to get some facts to check out.

Read the story

[The Bullpen]

Noooo, don't die, Peter!  Talk about devotion, huh?  I will be so sad if Quinn bites it.  Allison, on the other hand...

 

Also, Carrie should keep the wig permanently.  I enjoy her as a brunette with a short haircut. 

[KittyS]

I agree about the hair! Her normal color is way too yellow for her coloring.

Watching Quinn stagger around helplessly was devastating. Fight, Quinn, fight!

I'm not sure about Noah yet. I'd love to think he's this great guy who only wants to help Carrie, but this show has taught me not to trust anyone.

It's refreshing to see Allison freaking out a little instead of just being a stone cold villain.

[33kaitykaity]

It's depressing to ask logical questions when watching this show, but seriously, how did Allison rise through the ranks of US intelligence and not get caught out as being a Russian spy?  She's very clearly not cut out for this kind of field work.  She's making so many stupid mistakes it's inevitable that Team Saul/Carrie is going to catch her out by season end and she's going to die badly.  It's like she's a paper cut-out character.  Maybe it's the way Miranda Otto is playing her, I don't know.  

[jeansheridan]

I don't think Allison is that bad. If we didn't know she was shifty how would her scenes with Saul and Dal play? I liked her aghast look when she saw "dead" Carrie. <br /><br />I adore Astrid and not the least for looking her age. She looks old enough to be a high ranking spy. <br /><br />Carrie trusted that idiot reporter not to tell everyone she is alive! So much for being dead. But her wig can stay. Someone needs to convince Claire Danes to dye her hair.<br /><br />Quinn's plotline is bugging me. He would die that way to protect Carrie? Idiot. You can help her more alive. Can't doctors be bribed? Is there not one shady doctor in all of Berlin who would take cold hard Euros, no questions asked?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Well, if there was any question who loves Carrie more, we know that Jonas has definitely lost that competition. When Quinn disappeared, I had to laugh at how easily he slipped away from Jonas. When he went back for his gun, I gave the tv a stern, "No, Quinn!" (like he was a bad dog). But when he was sitting on the dock with that cinder block and zip ties, I yelled, "Noooooooooo!" But I had to laugh again when that guy tried to intervene and Quinn's reaction was to mutter, "Unfuckingbelievable." Watching him stagger around like Quasimodo was so painful though. Poor guy. He is so devoted to Carrie that he is willing to die in a dumpster for her.

 

Mr. EB stopped watching Homeland at the end of last season but he was in the room when I started watching this episode. He had no idea who any of the new characters are so when Numan appeared, he said, "When did Dave Navarro's face get so fat?" He then proceeded to refer to him as Fat-Faced Dave Navarro for the rest of the episode. Now I can't take Numan seriously anymore because I keep expecting him to tell someone, "The judges have determined that you had the worst tattoo of the day."

 

I hope that Saul really did ditch the detail Allison put on him so that no one saw him get into a car with an undead Carrie. I'm going with last week's hypothesis is that Allison is who Paige from The Americans grew up to be. That might explain some of her dumb decisions.

 

When Carrie went strolling through the streets of Berlin with only her wig to disguise her appearance, I was so annoyed. Look, I'm not a spy. I have never worked for the CIA or been an undercover cop or anything. So how is it that I know to COVER YOUR FACE when you're supposed to be dead and there are surveillance cameras everywhere? At least she finally got smart and paid that guy $50 for his mask. I have no idea why she waited until then to put her hood on though. Hats and sunglasses, Carrie - BUY SOME.

 

I love how Carrie and Astrid don't even try to hide their mutual dislike. Carrie's parting words when she got out of the car were hilarious. I was cracking up when her boss chided her to do that kind of research on her own time. I had a boss like that too ages ago. If she saw me in the hallway talking to another employee, she would say things like, "I hope you're not on the clock."

 

I didn't really care either way about Saul's friend at the seder last week, but this week when he told Saul to grow a pair of tits and fuck himself, I thought hey, I'm really starting to like this guy.

 

Someone needs to convince Claire Danes to dye her hair.

I nominate Crimson Glow as Carrie's next hair color.

Edited November 2, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[chocolatine]

So it's spring 2016 in Homeland universe, or was that a goof? Numan typed "20 April 2016" when trying to find a tape of the Russian diplomat. I wonder what the real Syria situation is going to be like in six months.

 

I'm not sure what to make of Allison being so shaken up when she saw the picture of "dead" Carrie. If she was a stone-cold Russian spy she wouldn't let it get to her that much, would she? Something tells me she was turned relatively recently and this was her first big mission for the Russians. WHY did she turn though?

 

Quinn trying to off himself to make sure Carrie is "free" was a little much. Did he think the garbage collectors wouldn't notice a body in the dumpster? Carrie meanwhile is running all over Berlin with only a cheap wig to disguise her, so it's only a matter of time until the Russians and Allison find out she's still very much alive.

 

Finally, I loved Astrid's boss. Very formal and well-spoken in an old-school German way (the polar opposite to how Saul/Dar communicate with their underlings), looks like a typical German "Beamter" (civil servant), but can identify a Russian hit man in five seconds flat.

[FurryFury]

I liked the episode a lot, although I feel like they went a bit overboard with Quinn's insistence to avoid being taken to the hospital. That said, he clearly wasn't in his right mind.

 

I continue to love Miranda Otto as Allison. I thought her acting in that scene with Ivan the Russian spy was particularly good. I wonder if she's completely turned by the Russians or just working with them for some goal?

 

Quinn's walk through the city broke my heart. I couldn't give a damn about Saul and Carrie in the hotel because I was at the edge of my seat worrying for Quinn. And I don't even think they'd really kill him (I mean the show took 3 freaking seasons to get rid of Brody, no way would they get rid of Quinn in the middle of a season), but he just look really really in pain and I felt for him so much.

No idea about the dude who found him. That was weird.

[norask]

I still continue to love this new season. But the show better show Quinn in a hospital in the next episode because I couldn't take his suffering any more. Jonas is an idiot who couldn't even keep an eye on a half-dead man. I was so worried throughout the episode for him that I couldn't concentrate very well on the other stuff.

 

Miranda Otto continues to good work as Allison. And good for the show not to unnecessary prolong the mystery of who ordered the hit on Carrie. To me it looked like Allison has an emotional connection to the Russian spy. Now if that is just handler-doubleagent stuff or more, I can't decide. But I really hope Dar Adal and Saul are playing the long con Allison. This can't be that easy for these two old-timers to be duped by Allison.

 

I loved Carrie's inter-action with Astrid. They didn't bother hiding their mutual animosity and Astrid still came through for her. Why didn't Carrie just ask her to help Quinn. Because damnit, Quinn is suffering and that needs to stop soon.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yeah, I didn't get why Carrie didn't just tell Astrid she wanted to find out who tried to kill Quinn instead of talking about herself. If she had opened with that, Astrid would have been a lot more agreeable a lot sooner.

 

Even though many of us suspected that Allison was behind the hit on Carrie and in league with the Russians, I'm also glad that the show confirmed both things this week instead of dragging it out the way other shows often do.

 

I agree that the handholding seemed more than the regular agent/handler relationship. When she asked him to stay with her for a little longer, I thought they were going to jump in the back set and have sex right there in the garage so I was glad it was just holding hands and smoking.

[Boundary]

Saul and Carrie have reconnected. Get Quinn a doctor and all will be right with the world. Except that stupid reporter, obviously a situation is so grave enough that someone like Carrie has to use spycraft but she has to find a reason to snark and  be flippant. She doesn't deserve it but I hope one of the baddies catches her and scare her shitless. 

[Boundary]

 But I really hope Dar Adal and Saul are playing the long con Allison. This can't be that easy for these two old-timers to be duped by Allison.

 

It looks like the Russians have been playing the long game on Saul and Dar, although to what end I don't know. They obviously tricked Saul's friend into travelling to Switzerland exactly for the purpose of putting a wedge between those guys. 

Edited November 2, 2015 by Boundary

[Deanie87]

For me, Quinn has revitalized the show, just on his own and in his relationships.  I find his interactions with Carrie, Saul, Dar Adal and Astrid to be so much more interesting than interactions between any other characters.  While this is a good thing for the show, it may end up being a bit of a double-edged sword as well.  In the past, I would have been riveted by a Saul and Carrie reunion, in this episode all I cared about was Quinn and I was downright annoyed when they kept cutting back to Saul and Carrie.

[teddysmom]

Jesus Allison, you're a double agent, AND you smoke and drink Diet Coke? Wanna be dead much?

As stated earlier,

TO: Homeland PTB: Kill Quinn and WE ARE THRU. I put up with the Brody shenanigans for three seasons and a shark jumping pregnancy. The least you owe me is Quinn and Carrie realizing they are MFEO.

[Constantinople]

I love Astrid.  Somehow it seems so European that a spy would ride a bicycle to work.

[ihartcoffee]

I agree, Quinn makes the show more compelling. The actor is perfect for this part and he plays him well.

I do also like Dar Adal and Saul, both great characters and actor's. Something has to be up, they can't both be fooled by Allison.

[Constantinople]

I find it a little odd and a little too convenient that Dar Adal would be so quickly suspicious of Saul and so quick to conclude the Israelis were behind it.  I doubt the CIA is the only intelligence agency that knows the Israelis use magnetic bombs.

 

Like Saul, I would be surprised if Assad were behind it since, as Saul noted, the general would never have left Syria.

 

Besides the Israelis, who else might want to keep Assad in power? The Russians
Who did such a good job of developing contacts in Russia and the former Soviet Union?  Allison
Who tried to get Saul recalled from Berlin?  Allison

[teddysmom]

For me, Quinn has revitalized the show, just on his own and in his relationships.

 

 

I really want Homeland to just become "Carrie & Quinn: Spy Asskickers" .  

 

Does Quinn realize that by killing himself, he won't be able to take care of Carrie? And that her finding out he's dead will literally kill her.  

[slowpoked]

 but seriously, how did Allison rise through the ranks of US intelligence and not get caught out as being a Russian spy?

I don't think she's a Russian spy from the beginning (because that would be a different show ;) ). I think she was turned recently. Obviously there's a much bigger operation that's going to happen by the climax of this season (much like how the prisoner exchange wasn't the end game in last season but the attack on the embassy). From the bits and pieces that were mentioned at the beginning, it seems like Allison has been a CIA for awhile, is an elite intelligence officer (according to Saul), who has recruited very important assets in the past, and has seen the worst of it and survived (Carrie saying about Baghdad). 

 

In hindsight, her actions at the beginning of the season makes much more sense rather than just desperation about saving her career. Her desperation at staying at Berlin is not because she wants the job but because if she's pushed out, this whole end game with the Russians will fall apart. Her torpedoing Saul out of Berlin so she can operate without much surveillance from a higher-up. Heck, her sleeping with Saul is also probably connected to this whole operation. And the "leak" with Numan is also probably part of the plan, although Allison probably didn't foresee her ass being on the line on that "screwup".  I also like the fact that she admitted her nerves were shot after seeing that shot of Carrie dead. It seemed at the beginning they regard and respect each other well even though not the best of friends, and her killing a colleague, even if it's part of the "plan" rattled her. Like someone said, she's just not a stone-cold villain, but a conflicted one (unlike that Pakistani lady in Season 4 who is just pure evil.) It will make for a much interesting showdown down the road.

 

 

I love Astrid.  Somehow it seems so European that a spy would ride a bicycle to work.

I swear, Astrid gets the best lines this season, and Nina Hoss' delivery of them is just perfection. Someone said earlier about her telling Laura Sutton about her having a loud voice. This episode, I love the little exchange of "I'm not doing this for you," and Carrie's "Yeah, you made that perfectly clear." I was hoping Carrie would reach out to her to get the medical assistance that Quinn needs, instead of Jonas. I'm sure a spy of her caliber has access to "off-the-record" doctors in Germany. 

 

 

TO: Homeland PTB: Kill Quinn and WE ARE THRU.

I'm hoping that that person who found Quinn is not ISIS, or else, he's as good as gone. When he said about that line about "God sent me to save you..." I got a little some chills, because that conversation sounded similar to the one that the female ISIS recruiter used to recruit that teenage girl, something about "this is the mission that God has for you. He saved you, now it's your turn to serve him..."

Edited November 2, 2015 by slowpoked

[parandroid]

 

I love Astrid.  Somehow it seems so European that a spy would ride a bicycle to work.

Well, yes, it is more European than not, but it is not remarkable in Berlin for _anyone_ - spy or not - to ride bikes into work. I was in Berlin this summer, and there were bikes everywhere, and cars less so - a stark comparison to what I saw in Paris a few days later. Even in less urban parts of Germany this is common. I have a German colleague who regularly bikes about 10 km to work in the Stuttgart area - unless its a really cold day.

 

Tourist also have a large number of biking options. You can rent bikes to see a city, and even have organized bike tours.

Edited November 2, 2015 by parandroid

[Constantinople]

Jesus Allison, you're a double agent, AND you smoke and drink Diet Coke? Wanna be dead much?

 

This season often reminds me of an old school, Cold War, US vs.the Soviet Union, Spy vs. Spy story with its Berlin setting, Russian adversaries and its actual or suspected double agents.  Astrid's reference to the Baader-Meinhoff gang added a little more of that throwback flavoring.

 

With that in mind, Allison's smoking fits right in, but she should probably be drinking Tab, not Diet Coke.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Constantinople

[ahpny]

I'm going with last week's hypothesis is that Allison is who Paige from The Americans grew up to be. That might explain some of her dumb decisions.

 

Interesting connection, and their ages seem just about right. But we can forgive 14-year-old Paige for making some poor choices, because, you know, 14 years old. We can forgive far less from a seasoned, senior spy who has, at least so far, apparently mastered double-crossing the CIA’s number 1 and 2. And as other’s have commented, why would she be so shocked at Carrie’s “death” photo after ordering the hit herself? Perhaps she never expected that order to be carried out because knew Quinn’s feelings for, and his loyalty to, Carrie? Mysteries abound.

 

Given the melding of current fact and projected near-future fiction, I get why Russia would want to prop up Assad by whacking his competition, and perhaps it’s in its interest to drive a wedge between American and Israeli security agencies, but what’s in it for them to off Carrie? Why does she matter to them?

 

Perhaps she’s merely part of grander scheme to take down Saul? What’s their end game? Removing both Saul and Adar and installing Allison? Hasn’t she screwed up too many times already for that? YA Think?

[MochaJay]

It seems almost like an exchange of favours between Allison and the Russian. He said that Carrie being dead solved her problem, not that the hit on Carrie was to further Russian aims. Maybe he recovered the hacked files because they implicate her (which I think makes more sense than the CIA having files that implicate Russia in something and not knowing they do) and now she is helping with discrediting Saul to pay them back.

 

I don't easily buy that Allison would be working for the Russians for ideological reasons, but she seems arrogant enough that she would have started cooperating with her Russian counterpart against policy because she thought she knew better, whilst still considering herself a Patriot serving what she thought were American interests. And now she is in over her head and committing a host of crimes to cover her tracks.

[lvbalgurl]

Given the melding of current fact and projected near-future fiction, I get why Russia would want to prop up Assad by whacking his competition, and perhaps it’s in its interest to drive a wedge between American and Israeli security agencies, but what’s in it for them to off Carrie? Why does she matter to them?

 

Yeah, I don't get it either.  "There's something in the documents they don't want Carrie to see?"  Huh?  Is there some kind of code enmeshed in the docs that only Carrie in her superspydom can crack?

 

Watching Quinn stagger around the streets with a bullet hole in his side, looking for the best way to kill himself, tore at my heart.  I'll go with the idea that the fever and infection brought on by his sepsis led him to this state; I don't think he'd give up on himself so easily, otherwise.  But, we get it, show: Quinn loves Carrie.  He is deeply, tragically, heart-achingly in love with Carrie.  Even Jonas was all, "Er...I don't know that I'd do all that for her...?"  But, our Quinn is ready to throw himself off a bridge for Ms. Mathison.  Sigh.

 

I sure hope Dar and Saul are playing the long con, because I'm not certain I buy Allison playing Saul this way.  They've been intimate, and apparently have a relationship.  Surely, he'd have picked up on something by now with her.

Edited November 2, 2015 by lvbalgurl

[slowpoked]

Watching Quinn stagger around the streets with a bullet hole in his side, looking for the best way to kill himself, tore at my heart.  I'll go with the idea that the fever and infection brought on by his sepsis led him to this state; I don't think he'd give up on himself so easily, otherwise.  But, we get it, show: Quinn loves Carrie.  He is deeply, tragically, heart-achingly in love with Carrie.  Even Jonas was all, "Er...I don't know that I'd do all that for her...?"  But, our Quinn is ready to throw himself off a bridge for Ms. Mathison.  Sigh.

As much as the show wants the audience to know he's doing it for love, I think he's also doing it for himself. He clearly can no longer control where Carrie goes or what she does given his state. And it's only a matter of time before someone else aside from the few people that Carrie has met with that it will be known Carrie's death was faked. And Quinn will be the target by then (aside from Carrie). So he probably knows he's dead either way, and he's just making the process a little faster for him.

 

I gotta give some props to Numan. I know he's a hacktivist, so his end game is way above his two friends, but even though Korzy screwed him, he still genuinely wanted justice for him, and his GF. I really thought he would be all screw you to Korzy after he found his GF dead, but he's finding ways to flush out their killers, and finding support from his peers in his quest for justice for his friends, among other things.

[MochaJay]

 

Watching Quinn stagger around the streets with a bullet hole in his side, looking for the best way to kill himself, tore at my heart.  I'll go with the idea that the fever and infection brought on by his sepsis led him to this state; I don't think he'd give up on himself so easily, otherwise.  But, we get it, show: Quinn loves Carrie.  He is deeply, tragically, heart-achingly in love with Carrie.  Even Jonas was all, "Er...I don't know that I'd do all that for her...?"  But, our Quinn is ready to throw himself off a bridge for Ms. Mathison.  Sigh.

 

The sepsis and his love for Carrie pushed him to the extremes of trying to die in the dumpster, but it's no more than his continuation of his basic character of being a martyr for his cause. You don't become a soldier-assassin who goes for years on end without so much sleeping on a real a bed without being willing to sacrifice yourself when the odds are bad. Quinn started to fall for Carrie in part out of admiration for how much of herself she was willing to sacrifice for America in season 3.

 

If Quinn's partner in Berlin was his Special Ops buddy he went to Syria with instead of Carrie, I think he would have still said 'no hospitals' after getting shot. The difference is probably that guy would do the armed robbery rather than enlisting a civilian to get the medicine, and if that didn't work Quinn would have died in the hideout. I think the same would happen in reverse if Quinn's buddy got shot, because those are the stakes these people accept. Of course because Quinn loves Carrie he would absolutely get her to a hospital to be saved if she was the one shot, and she loves him enough that she eventually agreed to that, which prompted him to go extra self-sacrificial.

 

I hope that the guy that found Quinn at the dock really is a good samaritan who saves his life by getting him to a hospital ASAP. It can still screw Quinn plotwise as gunshot wounds are rare and he could get arrested or traced by Russians. I don't figure how Quinn could have been tracked there, and it would be an extreme coincidence if in a city of millions another spy just happened to stumble upon him.

 

And that guy was muslim right? Am I the only one that thought the subtext to Quinn's 'un-fuckin-believable' was ' whilst I have known in abstract that most muslims are peaceful and good I have literally only ever met the jihadi terrorist type, what a cosmic fucking joke that I meet my first loving muslim whilst I am trying to murder myself' ?

[eyewatchtv]

Another vote here for not killing Quinn off.  Great character, great actor.

[WaltersHair]

 

But I really hope Dar Adal and Saul are playing the long con Allison. This can't be that easy for these two old-timers to be duped by Allison

This. I register zero warmth from Saul toward Allison.

 

And don't the Russians always do the sex-for-secrets angle? I remember at least two real life episodes within my lifetime.

 

ETA Kill Quinn and I'm gone. He is literally the only reason I still tune in. Carrie's squirrel on caffeine in the train station was ludicrous.

Edited November 3, 2015 by WaltersHair

[Boundary]

It seems almost like an exchange of favours between Allison and the Russian. He said that Carrie being dead solved her problem, not that the hit on Carrie was to further Russian aims. Maybe he recovered the hacked files because they implicate her (which I think makes more sense than the CIA having files that implicate Russia in something and not knowing they do) and now she is helping with discrediting Saul to pay them back.

 

I don't easily buy that Allison would be working for the Russians for ideological reasons, but she seems arrogant enough that she would have started cooperating with her Russian counterpart against policy because she thought she knew better, whilst still considering herself a Patriot serving what she thought were American interests. And now she is in over her head and committing a host of crimes to cover her tracks.

 

I really like this take, I too think Allison got in over her head because she thought she was smarter but now the Russians are making her cause more damage than she probably anticipated. I think offing Carrie was not personal per se and you gave a plausible explanation. But can we also conclude Allison put out the hit in Syria? And the whole blow up a plane in order to pull Dar Adal and Saul apart seems a bit much (I know I know, this is Homeland, but still).

[slowpoked]

 

I think offing Carrie was not personal per se and you gave a plausible explanation.

I still don't quite get how killing Carrie serves Allison's interest. Is it because Allison thinks that Carrie has the leaked files due to the pictures she saw of Carrie and Laura Sutton talking? And how was she so sure that Quinn would not come to Saul about the Carrie kill order? Does she not know how close the triumvirate of Carrie/Saul/Quinn before? And she just totally bet that because Saul "ordered" the hit, Quinn would follow orders without any questions? Wouldn't she have been better served if the Russian assassin did the hit (or at least attempted, since we all know Carrie cannot die) instead?

Edited November 3, 2015 by slowpoked

[roughing it]

 

I agree that the handholding seemed more than the regular agent/handler relationship.

There was more warmth between them in that scene than in last week's? episode with Allison telling Saul she took a Xanax (so no sex), and Saul was like OK no problem-o!!  This tells me that they really are playing each other.  Also, Saul's comment to Carrie that he is now running because Mira filed for divorce -  a divorce that Saul obviously doesn't want because he is still in love with her - not at all Allison.

[MochaJay]

I really like this take, I too think Allison got in over her head because she thought she was smarter but now the Russians are making her cause more damage than she probably anticipated. I think offing Carrie was not personal per se and you gave a plausible explanation. But can we also conclude Allison put out the hit in Syria? And the whole blow up a plane in order to pull Dar Adal and Saul apart seems a bit much (I know I know, this is Homeland, but still).

 

I don't know about the hit at the refugee camp - I don't remember, did the tortured guy say that it was a CIA hit or was that part of what he would not reveal. Maybe the Russians did that part for Allison too.

 

I definitely think the blowing up the plane and implicating Saul is the Russian goal. That is the service they are getting from her in exchange for buying the leaked documents and organising hits. They must have enough to blackmail her but she certainly doesn't act like she's being blackmailed, I see them more as similarly ranked intelligence officers who have had legitimate contact in the past, but though he is still working in his country's interest and she is working against hers. It seems the relations between different countries spies is a bit of a theme this season; Saul is suspected of being compromised with Etai, Astrid is minorly compromised by helping Quinn and Carrie, Allison is majorly compromised.

I still don't quite get how killing Carrie serves Allison's interest. Is it because Allison thinks that Carrie has the leaked files due to the pictures she saw of Carrie and Laura Sutton talking? And how was she so sure that Quinn would not come to Saul about the Carrie kill order? Does she not know how close the triumvirate of Carrie/Saul/Quinn before? And she just totally bet that because Saul "ordered" the hit, Quinn would follow orders without any questions? Wouldn't she have been better served if the Russian assassin did the hit (or at least attempted, since we all know Carrie cannot die) instead?

Yeah I don't get why they didn't send that guy after Carrie either, unless they tried that and he just wasn't as good at tracking her down as Quinn.

 

I really don't think Allison knew who Quinn was, other than a CIA assassin assigned to Saul when Saul asked for somebody. That explains why she wasn't worried about the hitman questioning that particular name in the box. Maybe that helps explain why Quinn was so determined his body not be found in a morgue - that would allow Saul's hitman to be identified as Peter Quinn and any half decent research into that name will reveal that Quinn and Carrie worked together in Pakistan, which could trigger suspicions that he had not actually killed Carrie.

[FurryFury]

I still don't quite get how killing Carrie serves Allison's interest.

 

I think it's yet to be revealed, and I hope the reason is good enough, because I'm interested in Allison, mostly thanks to Miranda Otto's nuanced acting.

 

Does she not know how close the triumvirate of Carrie/Saul/Quinn before?

 

Why should she? It sure doesn't seem like she knows a lot about Quinn, she referred to him as "Saul Berenson's hitman" in this episode, IIRC.

[slowpoked]

 That explains why she wasn't worried about the hitman questioning that particular name in the box. 

 

 

Why should she? It sure doesn't seem like she knows a lot about Quinn, she referred to him as "Saul Berenson's hitman" in this episode, IIRC.

Well, she was freaking out to Ivan about how Quinn and Saul would later compare notes and eventually figure out that Saul didn't order the Carrie hit.

 

I wonder if the bombing targeted at Carrie in Lebanon is the same kill order that led Quinn to Carrie. Maybe Allison used Saul's system because the bombing failed to kill her. But still, I wonder why even use someone from her own intelligence organization, when it seems like she has some Russian hitmen at her disposal?

[Boundary]

But still, I wonder why even use someone from her own intelligence organization, when it seems like she has some Russian hitmen at her disposal?

 

Honestly, I think the answer we'll get to this question will be disappointing. Saul will immediately know his system is infiltrated, likely by one of his own. Why would Allison ask for this extra scrutiny? Is it part of the strategy to discredit Saul? And it still doesn't explain the Syria hit on Carrie.

[Isazouzi]

I nominate Crimson Glow as Carrie's next hair color.

 

I just wanted to quote that sentence, cause it made me nostalgic. "It's not red, it's crimson glow".

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I just wanted to quote that sentence, cause it made me nostalgic. "It's not red, it's crimson glow".

Who leans better: Jordan or Quinn?

Just kidding - obviously Quinn is way more awesome than Jordan. True, neither of them will take you to the World Happiness dance, but Quinn will take a bullet for Carrie! Jordan, on the other hand, would say, "Whatever happens happens."

Edited November 3, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[MochaJay]

Well, she was freaking out to Ivan about how Quinn and Saul would later compare notes and eventually figure out that Saul didn't order the Carrie hit.

 

I wonder if the bombing targeted at Carrie in Lebanon is the same kill order that led Quinn to Carrie. Maybe Allison used Saul's system because the bombing failed to kill her. But still, I wonder why even use someone from her own intelligence organization, when it seems like she has some Russian hitmen at her disposal?

I'm sorry, I didn't explain my meaning fully in my previous post. I meant that Allison knew Saul's hitman would not discuss the hit on Carrie before carrying out the killing, that's not the protocol. She would expect them to meet at some point, which is why she arranged for Saul's hitman to be killed after proof of Carrie's death had been provided - at which point Saul would presumably conclude that someone associated with one of the legitimate targets had tracked his hitman down and killed him. Now that she has tried, and failed to kill Saul's hitman she is terrified that the two will meet up because red flags will have been raised for them.

[norask]

I wonder if the bombing targeted at Carrie in Lebanon is the same kill order that led Quinn to Carrie. Maybe Allison used Saul's system because the bombing failed to kill her. But still, I wonder why even use someone from her own intelligence organization, when it seems like she has some Russian hitmen at her disposal?

 

Honestly, I think the answer we'll get to this question will be disappointing. Saul will immediately know his system is infiltrated, likely by one of his own. Why would Allison ask for this extra scrutiny? Is it part of the strategy to discredit Saul? And it still doesn't explain the Syria hit on Carrie.

 

You guys have raised very good questions. Indeed, why would Allison go to all the trouble to get Saul's assassin to kill Carrie when she has access to Russian assassins? All I can come up with is that maybe she doesn't want the trail to lead to her Russian connection. I hope the reason is a bit more interesting than that.

[paramitch]

Another great episode. I am so in for the direction the show's taken -- less Carrie (much as I love her) and more general modern paranoia and intrigue... 

IIt's refreshing to see Allison freaking out a little instead of just being a stone cold villain.

I liked this a lot and found it very human and real. In reality, double agents should be and would be shitting themselves at least in private over so much death and so many elements going so terribly wrong (most of all, the plane not blowing up at 20k feet).

 

I'm not sure what to make of Allison being so shaken up when she saw the picture of "dead" Carrie. If she was a stone-cold Russian spy she wouldn't let it get to her that much, would she? Something tells me she was turned relatively recently and this was her first big mission for the Russians. WHY did she turn though?

 

I took it as a nice moment actually -- Allison's very human reaction made me think that her affection for Carrie had been real in at least some sense, and that perhaps she hadn't been quite prepared for the consequences. 

I'm still very interested to hear why she turned though, as she seems like a lifetime CIA-life subscriber who was turned fairly recently.

 

Quinn's walk through the city broke my heart. I couldn't give a damn about Saul and Carrie in the hotel because I was at the edge of my seat worrying for Quinn. 

Ditto.  It was beautifully acted and very painful. If he and Carrie don't get together after this I will throw large objects at my television. I mean, they went past Quinn's adorable expression of doomed love last week on her shoulder! Now he's willing to die to protect her! SOB SNIFFLE! AGHGHGH! (Yes, I love Quinn. Don't judge me.)

 

For me, Quinn has revitalized the show, just on his own and in his relationships.  I find his interactions with Carrie, Saul, Dar Adal and Astrid to be so much more interesting than interactions between any other characters.  While this is a good thing for the show, it may end up being a bit of a double-edged sword as well.  In the past, I would have been riveted by a Saul and Carrie reunion, in this episode all I cared about was Quinn and I was downright annoyed when they kept cutting back to Saul and Carrie.

To me it was a win-win. I adored the cleverness and complexity of the Saul-Carrie-meet as well as the genuine pathos and tragedy of our darling Quinn, staggering toward self-harm to save Carrie.  I especially loved how forthright it was with Saul -- boom -- a single gum wrapper and off he went, because he loves Carrie and always will and vice versa. Nothing can convince me otherwise. I just hope he's smart enough to realize he has a detail on him (or that Carrie caught it, darn it).

But I was equally moved by poor darling Quinn too. Basically, I'm easy. I want to see Quinn gazing at Carrie or doing sexy suspenseful things (gazing adoringly of course), and Saul and Carrie being a family, and hey, hand this show an Emmy. I love that stuff and am a total sucker. If this show ever had a Christmas episode of Saul, Carrie, Quinn and eggnog or something, I'd probably watch it a thousand times in total happiness.

 

In hindsight, her actions at the beginning of the season makes much more sense rather than just desperation about saving her career. Her desperation at staying at Berlin is not because she wants the job but because if she's pushed out, this whole end game with the Russians will fall apart. Her torpedoing Saul out of Berlin so she can operate without much surveillance from a higher-up. Heck, her sleeping with Saul is also probably connected to this whole operation. And the "leak" with Numan is also probably part of the plan, although Allison probably didn't foresee her ass being on the line on that "screwup".  I also like the fact that she admitted her nerves were shot after seeing that shot of Carrie dead. It seemed at the beginning they regard and respect each other well even though not the best of friends, and her killing a colleague, even if it's part of the "plan" rattled her. Like someone said, she's just not a stone-cold villain, but a conflicted one (unlike that Pakistani lady in Season 4 who is just pure evil.) It will make for a much interesting showdown down the road.

Great post, and I hope the rescuer isn't ISIS too. He came across as so kind and so eloquent... yeah, he's evil... sigh.

 

And as other’s have commented, why would she be so shocked at Carrie’s “death” photo after ordering the hit herself? Perhaps she never expected that order to be carried out because knew Quinn’s feelings for, and his loyalty to, Carrie? Mysteries abound.

I thought Allison's shocked reaction was that her wish had been carried out. It may have had strategic value (in fact, I assume she convinced herself it did), but she was also evidently real friends with Carrie. So I liked the moment of real shock and near-sadness. I think it's far more real than stone-faced killers in typical espionage thrillers. Allison knew and possibly even liked/loved Carrie, even if she was also envious of her relationship with Saul (or even because of it? Who knows...)

 

Yeah, I don't get it either.  "There's something in the documents they don't want Carrie to see?"  Huh?  Is there some kind of code enmeshed in the docs that only Carrie in her superspydom can crack?

It didn't take superspydom for Carrie to realize that her sudden death sentence may have been directly tied to revelations or knowledge she would have offered from those documents. So far, ti doesn't seem outlandish to me. In fact, the two stories are actually officially connected thanks to this episode, which delighted me. I don't even think Carrie is intrinsic or vital to the situation. But she just happens to have knowledge that could be dangerous, which isn't a stretch for me.

 

As much as the show wants the audience to know he's doing it for love, I think he's also doing it for himself. He clearly can no longer control where Carrie goes or what she does given his state. And it's only a matter of time before someone else aside from the few people that Carrie has met with that it will be known Carrie's death was faked. And Quinn will be the target by then (aside from Carrie). So he probably knows he's dead either way, and he's just making the process a little faster for him.

Agreed. There's a definite element of self-sacrifice to Quinn's actions (he's a fool for love, that beautiful boy), but it's also quite strategic and cold; I literally think he simply cannot think of any other way to fix the situation. I want him to live (and if he goes, I may very well go too, much as I love Carrie and all her flaws), but I see in a weird way where he's coming from.

 

The sepsis and his love for Carrie pushed him to the extremes of trying to die in the dumpster, but it's no more than his continuation of his basic character of being a martyr for his cause. You don't become a soldier-assassin who goes for years on end without so much sleeping on a real a bed without being willing to sacrifice yourself when the odds are bad. Quinn started to fall for Carrie in part out of admiration for how much of herself she was willing to sacrifice for America in season 3.

 

If Quinn's partner in Berlin was his Special Ops buddy he went to Syria with instead of Carrie, I think he would have still said 'no hospitals' after getting shot.

Agreed. I think everything Quinn is showing us or has shown isn't so much about Carrie, as about who he is as a person. It's even more interesting seeing this combination of Quinn at his core (who I think is a truly kind, loving person) with the cold-blooded assassin. Even so, he manages to try to do the right thing for those he cares about and it's heartbreaking. 

 

I just think Quinn is one of those in this business who seems perfect for it, but while Carrie can bend and bend and bend and survive... Quinn breaks. He's fragile in some intrinsic way. 

 

You guys have raised very good questions. Indeed, why would Allison go to all the trouble to get Saul's assassin to kill Carrie when she has access to Russian assassins?

To me Allison's actions were a combination of need and want. She's wanted to get rid of Carrie for awhile but now she had an actual channel and ability to do so, and best of all, a quantifiable and strategic, logical reason. She needed to remove Carrie now because of the documents leak. 

I do think based on what we saw here (and based on the rather surprisingly warm, lovely scene between her and her Russian contact)  that Allison is more strategy than wetwork before now, and that this scenario is pushing her way outside her comfort zone. I think she was genuinely upset at getting rid of Carrie, and that she may also have more feelings for Saul than she is aware of; we'll see. Meanwhile, it was great to see a secret agent act like a real person with feelings, and I loved everything Otto did with this episode tonight.

 

I thought it was a great ep overall. I mean, seriously, I almost liked Jonas and Laura! Bonus! Both of whom acted like actual adults and not like petulant 5 year-olds!

Edited November 5, 2015 by paramitch

[Kel Varnsen]

I agree about the hair! Her normal color is way too yellow for her coloring.

The colour of Carrie's hair has bugged me for years. I always thought spies were the types of people who don't attract attention or stand out in the crowd. But Carrie's blonde hair is so bright it practically glows in the dark.

 

You guys have raised very good questions. Indeed, why would Allison go to all the trouble to get Saul's assassin to kill Carrie when she has access to Russian assassins? All I can come up with is that maybe she doesn't want the trail to lead to her Russian connection. I hope the reason is a bit more interesting than that.

I still want to know how Allison/the Russians were able to figure out the very specific code that Saul and Quinn were using to send hit list names, without Allison figuring out who the hitman was?

[John Potts]

I'm assuming that Allison's turn to the dark side was a recent thing, since she seems to still be getting used to seeing the evidence of her betrayals (like Carrie's "death") whereas you'd think she'd be hardened to it if she was always a KGB* mole. I'm also guessing that her relationship with Saul is part of that turn, since that's a recent thing and the timing seems to work out.

 

It really did seem a stretch to suppose that Saul speaking to the Israeli (I'm guessing) Spymaster was anything other than what it was: a fact finding mission to see WTF happened about the Syrian General. Israel is an ally, after all, it's not like he was meeting with the head of Hezbullah. I really hope Dar & Saul are giving Allison enough rope to hang herself and that he doesn't really think Saul is co-opted by Mossad.

 

Loved the Hacktivist saying "Activists of the world unite! Fuck the Russians! They killed my bro!" (he may not have phrased it quite like that) because he presumably kinda liked the guy and they did kill a couple of hookers (whom he seemed to know a bit, too). Plus, his means of "attacking" them was realistically within his means and could conceivably achieve something. Even Laura was tolerable!

 

I'd love it if the guy playing "Good Samaritan" (or some more Islamic Parable) is a) Muslim and b) acting purely out of altruism (particularly if Quinn starts rambling about how he's a killer - and the Samaritan still helps him). And I don't think Quinn was acting out of love for Carrie (though I wouldn't rule it out), so much as being so dedicated to "the mission" that he prioritises it over even his own life (hope he survives, though).

 

ETA: Loved the Israeli Spymaster going "No, we didn't blow up the plane carrying the guy you weren't planning to install as the new ruler of Syria" because it was a perfect example of double talk that (I would imagine) happen all the time in espionage circles, even among "friends".

 

* I know they're not called that any more (FSB these days, I think) but if she was a "Grown up Paige" then she would have been put in place by the KGB

Edited November 11, 2015 by John Potts

[jjj]

I just wanted to quote that sentence, cause it made me nostalgic. "It's not red, it's crimson glow".

Binge-watching the season for the holiday.  I had to look up this reference, which was totally worthwhile.  I had completely forgotten! 

 

ETA:  "Your hair is holding you back." 

Edited December 22, 2015 by jjj

[pasdetrois]

*Waving at jjj." I'm also binge-watching because Verizon is offering Showtime to HBO subscribers for a couple months.

 

I caught up with season four this week and am into season five now. It's been very helpful to watch the episodes together, because there's a lot to keep track of.

 

Everyone here has already hit the high notes, so I'll just say that I'm loving the show.

 

Oh, and I'm just wild about Rupert Friend as Quinn. Not only is he beautiful, but he's playing the character perfectly. His story arc feels very organic.

 

I still have to give props to Claire Danes for maintaining her character's intensity over the five seasons. (Her mania is realistic - my family member is bipolar so I've lived with it.) I appreciate her lack of vanity.

 

Still love Saul - the guy is currently a former shell of himself, but that clever brain is still working overtime. This show would be nothing without the three of them.

 

Only sour note for me is Miranda Otto. Her acting feels very ON to me. Ditto for the American journalist. On the other hand, love Nina Hoss as a very realistic Astrid.